As an adc main, i have always noticed big difference between enchanter and engage sp. If someone gets autofilled, i advise them to take tanly engage sp rather than enchanter cause inexperienced one just spams all of the button at neutral and doesn't know what he is doing. Not to mention, can't maintain its mana so runs of it pretty soon and lane becomes 1v2. Jg comes to gank, mid assasian comes to have a cup of tea and life becomes hell. A good enchanter has saved me from close death so many times and even at tower dives where we get kills on enemy team instead.
So much this. Bad enchanter supports feel so bad to play with. You only get away with it because players are bad and a lot of time playing a 1v2 isn't always 'exposed' and exploited.
So true. That's also the number one reason why I hate it when Soraka/Janna are s-tier supports cause just because Soraka is a s-tier support doesn't mean you are a s-tier player.
A fair point, but from thw other side (as a support main, mostly playing Sona, Yuumi, and Seraphine, like some sorta Disney weeb) I can understand why people wouldn't listen to the call for being an engager. With enchanters, you can still have some semblance of protection, and will be more about following up on your team, rather than the other way around. Whereas as engage, you have to be the frontliner, and there's no telling if people will follow you in, no matter what you ping, or how obvious the dive gets. I have played a lot if Rell too. I have sadly seen that scenario, firsthand, too many times. Hence, I can understand, if the autofilled one, doesn't wanna put their eggs in one basket. Unless it's Blitzcrank, since most can understand "I pulled him here. Now bash out his teeth" Q's. That said, for autofills, I'd agree that safer engagers like hook champs, or mabe mages, would be better than enchanters. Cause a say, mid main, won't like feeling as powerless and team reliant, as enchanters tends to be. Sure they can make plays, but they need a team with a bit between the ears to be so.
2:50 One of my favorite moments was playing soraka and ulting because my team’s yas was gonna die. Yas kills his opponent and the opponent says in all chat “ I hate you soraka.”
Soraka main here, my favorite thing in laning phase is to ult to turn the tide of a fight somewhere else on the map. That's a very nice clutch low HP kill you could be getting Riven, it would be a shame if my top laner suddenly got a few hundred HP back from bot.
I like Soraka but a harder to play but kind of a wild card in Engage/Enchanter cathegory is Taric. Taric can Heal, Shield, Stun and make all of your team invulnerable if he and linked ally are positioned just right. You can even try going top or even jungle if your mates help you at the start.
@@NMG.11 a guy who hasn’t played support in a while here. Tried Taric recently, I can micro manage all the things he has to keep track of. I will stay on my low apm champions like Cassiopeia… Another one that feels insanely hard to play is ivern, like daisy is so damn hard to utilize.
I had a similar moment with Sona. I saw a 1v1 happening in river and swung in with a w, power chord, q and the enemy after dying goes "Sona is such bs"
The thing about enchanters is that their decision making is different from everyone else's. They have the least kill potential and are squishy so they need to position well but must do so while still being able to use their spells. On top of this they need to change their build to suit their team (only tanks occasionally need to do this) and decide who is worth generally supporting and who isnt. Then in the middle of combat they gotta decide whether to continue buffing the best teammate or save a teammate thats about to die. Also, in case you're playing an enchanter that buffs speed like Sona you need to kinda direct people to rotate or be aware that a teammate wants to rotate somewhere. All of that on top of being 60-100% of your team's vision by warding.
I agree completly with everything but the part about people not having to adjust to your teammates. You always no matter what you play should account for the strenghs and weaknesses of your team and build accordingly. I am an Akali main for example and have a standart build that is very AP heavy but if I see that I am the only one who can soak the enemies team pressure because we have a Neeko top, a Zed Jungle, a Soraka Lucian Botlane then who is going to play the "Tank" nobody if I dont do it and so I go more into HP and Resi stats paired with a demonic embrase to convert the HP I have into a bit of AP. If I go the tanky route I normaly play "You can't kill me Akali" where I try to seem like a threat but the real threat is the rest of the team and while they spamm their abilites to kill me in my shroud my team kills them. If the try to turn on my team I will jump onto them. Given DE I still do damage so they are kind of in a lose lose situation. If I just went normal AP we would probably get just killed one after another. (I have to say tho that I hardly ever dodge because I believe even if the Teamformatiom is very off meta it's probably still winable. Kind of like an Itachi Uchia mentality if you know that character :) Edit: Grammar
@@pullsane What you're describing is something that happens because of a poor draft. What I mean is that your teammates performance can influence your build. Say I'm a Yuumi with a Kog'ma that plays like they're soft int'ing. I wont be building an Ardent Censor for them and would probably be better off building to suit my toplane Sett who is popping off. Also, it's not uncommon that a team just doesnt have a tank and building damage is always the best way to further your lead, unless you're a tank or enchanter. In which case the tank builds to counter either the most people on the enemy team or the best person on the enemy team. The enchanter instead has to do what I mentioned earlier and tailor their build around whatever teammate is preforming well.
@@autisonm yeah but literally every teammate will do this, just because yours suits your team rather than them building against opponents makes literally zero difference, and it’s not like being like building decisions are a very complicated thing because all items have very clear and defined a strengths so it’s easy to know what to pick.
@@pearse2944 Yeah I kinda tend to group tanks and enchanters together in my comments because they tailor their builds around others. (tanks build for the enemy, enchanters for their allies) The difference is that performance is a much bigger factor and more nuanced for enchanters on who they build for. In my previous example I talked about changing the build around to help a good Sett instead of a soft int'ing Kog'ma, but what if it wasnt that cut and dry? For tanks it almost always is that cut and dry since they rarely have to build defenses against an AP and AD hyper carry. Imagine the Kog'ma is just having a rough time or is getting unlucky and is a bit behind but is doing decent. You pair better with him than Sett who doesnt have as good of a late game either. Do you build for Sett or Kog?
As someone who enjoys playing many enchanters, I feel like the class as a whole can be described as "easy to learn, hard to master." Enchanters often need to decide who to shield and/or heal in skirmishes and big team fights and also need to watch their positioning so they don't ge caught out, as they have no mobility and are very squishy.
@@MrKaappimorso Same, friend It's just so much harder to keep your sanity when your adc dies for 5th time after getting caught for some dumb reason and just blaming everything on ya, you can't carry games when you're playing support, you really gotta rely and help others do it for you, which sucks, no matter how well you're doing if your teammates are fucking up you can't do much about it. Team games am I right
Simple fix for that. Just roam, help the rest of the team. Don't leash yourself to that troglodyte ADC that's only going to be feeding, and if your amazing at support YOU CAN HELP CARRY THE TEAM
As an enchanter player, what makes enchanters LOOK braindead is their ability to ride off other people’s success. Shielding a 10/0 riven doesn’t look particularly skillful but because of the nature of tank support kits (e.g. going in and hooking) they tend to LOOK more skillful or flashy compared to enchanters but they would get carried by a 10/0 riven all the same. I feel like this is also the reason some people who play an enchanter because they’re autofilled say they’re skill-less since you can easily get carried as one. The main difference i see with good enchanters and bad ones is their macro, positioning, and awareness. Knowing when to roam, positioning far up enough that you can CC enemies while also protecting allies, and being aware enough of enemy positions and cooldowns to place wards or save skills can be mentally taxing tbh and people underrate that because “i click shield and win” edit: not to mention the fact that your team’s mistakes in positioning affect you much more since you aren’t built with the capacity to kill people so walking up to try and save someone can easily cost your life, making your team lose all the heal, shields, and peeling you provide
I feel like a 10/0 riven don't even need the support near her and you might be better off peeling for someone else BTW I'm a jungle mid main (lately ore mid than jgl) and sometimes I get filled in support or play support with friends and every time I do anything everyone get scared like "why is this support so cocky?" meanwhile I'm level 3 invading the jungle to ward or pushing the enemy bot under tower with poke
@@doomkingraye7692 a 10 riven dying in a skirmish or teamfight is prob gonna cost you an objective or the game, and that riven prob has a 700 bounty on them. So yes, that riven should have all the support available to carry the game. It’s just like what jg mains say, gank ur winning lanes to push your advantage, and allow that laner/s to roam and put pressure around the map. Although im casual autofilled, i play a lot of jg, and that’s what i hear from jg pros.
@@ghanaria7996 if a riven has become that fed probably she can 1v5 no problem, if someone on the other team was strong enough to actually do anything about her she would have died before the 5th kill (I'm talking about a plat+ riven that managed a 10/0 score, in low elo Maybe the adc is fed too and he just never even the riven)
Well, you said out loud what I thought about the class. As an enchanter main I do find myself in a pickle when "boohoo all enchanters brain-dead get carried" while playing solo. Sure most of these guys have had a couple good games as enchanters and turned it into an absolute statement. Meanwhile I have to ignore the ADC who dived while enemy jungler was approaching and is blaming me. Good grief amiright?
@@alliu6562 that's complex. I guess they see supports as both brain-dead broken and still useless as they need to be carried. No clue how the two things can work together tho.
I'd say the hardest part of playing enchanters is the rng of getting a good adc and carrying them to a penta or getting one who just bought a level 30 acc and afk if he has a woman on his team
yea the rng in low ranks is insane i am got dropped to bronz and as a sup main i feel like my adc's usually have no idea what to do they want lvl 1 fights to happens and tries to force plays when we are clearly so much behind in gold and have no chance to win a fight but "you gotta try" i quess and then he dies solo in lane and you get the "just heal lol"
Don’t tunnel vision into getting your adc to carry you. If you see mid or top doing well 9/10 times you’re better off leaving your adc and start support your mid or toplaner. Don’t be afraid to just leave your lane after lvl 6 and don’t look back
I liked how you presented the strength of all players in percentage. I liked the idea of the exchange and the deposit: make a bet and win or place a bet and lose everything
Just another point about how to play this class. We always praise the warriors but we never praise the tactician. Watch any T1 game, you always hear the saying the whole enemy map is blind and the map is bright for T1... and you never stop to think thank to whom the map is like that. They may lose in combat but never on map control thanks to certain some one.
@@pissbaby9893 most times it isn’t. Supports have to know the minion lines of all nearby lanes so they don’t get behind in EXP while also knowing where enemy jug, mid, and support are to get a ward timer for deep wards. For example, a yuumi is very immobile and an adc death is also a yuumi death effectively, so wards should be set up. Deep vision will be so hard to pull off, so engage enemy junglers and enemy supports can just kill their lane if they try to take plates. Enchanters have to know their limits and that’s easily why renata builds tanky runes and masteries with her.
@@shima8321 I assume they are talking about which spell does she use her passive on. Q does shit load of damage, W apply %damage reduction, E does huge Slow.
@@shima8321 No, each power chord does different things for different purposes. Q is a double damage aa which can help close the health gap for your carry(or avenge them if you couldn't heal fast enough). W reduces the threat potential of the aa'd enemy with a damage nerf for a few seconds. And E is a peeling aa to slow a chasing enemy. Pair them with the effects of the auras, and its a really fine line of what do you need when, and choosing whether you want the chord effect with a suboptimal aura, or the reverse in a teamfight.
when I say "supp diff" as a mean to thank my lulu/soraka/janna etc for saving someone's ass after they got caught out and turn it ,, they get mad and say "no its all me, that lulu didnt do shit" ,,, ego problem in lol is too high
yea it is just because sups dont have flashy plays they are useless and then i love how people complains in bronze sups for having "bad stats" when they dont have kills but if you take one kill as enchanter sup oh no your adc gonna be pissed
I've found that enchanters are among the most difficult to play in lane if you have an inexperienced ADC. An engage support is at least able shot call and outline a general game plan for an inexperienced ADC to follow, setting up kills and such, and a messy lane is still generally playable for an engage support. But as an enchanter, they're more reliant on passive/subtle things like wave management, taking safe trades, setting up for objectives, proper positioning, all things that inexperienced ADCs are likely not doing properly and are difficult to communicate on the spot. If you're with an ADC that doesn't know how to play these kinds of lane, the lane is essentially lost, and the team starts flaming you for being "useless" when in reality the enchanter can do very little in these situations.
I just cant agree with you, if you have a shitty adc you can just stand as far back as possible and reduce the amount of times they die, if you’re a tank support and your adc is completely brainless you’ll do nothing but bait yourself because they just don’t help you after a certain amount of time both can just roam I don’t think either is better. Tank supports require all of the same “passive/ subtle” things you mentioned I feel like the enchanter community just feels like tank supports are brainless while the rest of the community thinks that enchanters are.
@@pearse2944 Tank supports have only 2 tries in lane. If you engage and lose 2 times (resulting in the death of your adc), the enemy adc will likely win all-ins cuz gold lead; you can't engage anymore.
For me, it depends on match up and just how inexperienced my adc is for whether tanks or enchanters are the better pick. I'm a leona main and still prefer soraka with inexperienced adcs because I can still exhibit map pressure with my ult while sitting back and keeping my adc safe while they farm. Although, other enchanters like janna can roam and/or wait for mid to late game. Carry supports like brand, zyra, pyke, senna, and lux also do an amazing job mitigating an inexperienced adc's shortcomings but do nothing to help them learn and are much less effective if your adc perma-shoves.
@@pearse2944 There isn't just entire brainless classes because, before looking at the nuances, most supports' gameplay involve what all supports have to do, and it has a lot to do with macro at a level that's more vigilant than other roles besides jungle. There are, albeit few, relatively micro-intensive and/or high skill ceiling champions in both tank and enchanter supports and vice versa (e.g. Thresh/Nautilus and Janna/Yuumi), but how easy things are often depend more on the game state (result of the entire team) than the specific champion you pick. It's definite more frustrating to engage with an inexperienced adc that doesn't match your aggression than to throw out non-commital heal/shields, but the alternative of roaming to other lanes (let adc freeze) and establishing vision control is easier to make happen on a Leona than a Soraka for instance.
The number one thing to take away from the arguments that are in favor of the idea that enchanters are harder than they seem, is the idea that they have to pay attention to 9 people in the game, not 5. They cannot just focus on the enemies, like the other classes. Even engage supports mainly focus the enemy, although they also have to peel for their team and stuff. Enchanters, by their nature of being buff givers, always have to pay attention to their teammates, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying, or malding in reddit threads about Lulu or some shit. It takes half a braincell and 10 games as an enchanter to understand that if you aren't paying attention to your teammates, as much as the enemies, you are playing the class the wrong way.
Literally every player has to pay attention to their teammates also I have no idea what you are on about, at all times you have to consider the enemy teams and your teams champs , abilities , strengths , cooldowns I feel like enchanters use macro as an excuse for their lack of mechanics when literally every other teammate is doing the same shit. There is timing in team fights and stuff like that but I don’t feel like it’s that much of a difference compared to any other champs with utility I feel like enchanters are just as ‘stat checky’ as some of the poorly designed top laners.
@@pearse2944 I mean of course you have to pay attention to your teammates. Every role and every champion does. So, since it's a given, me saying that other roles don't have to, means that they don't have to as much. But still that's ok, since that could just be an issue of clarity on my end. Fine. Thing is. It still holds true. I talked about "paying attention" generally at first, but then I specified that I mean that in terms of healing and shielding, and giving buffs, and when to do it, as Vars explained. No one is talking about enchanters needing to like keep track of health bars, in the general sense, because anyone would want to know if their teammates are healthy and able to continue fighting. We're talking about an even more attention to details such as HP. For HP specifically, for example, as an enchanter, you also need to compare. Which teammate needs the heal or shield more etc. It's not about looking at stuff specifically. It's about needing to interpret that information in ways that other roles don't have to, generally.
@@moopey1837 but as I said before your teammate are also doing the same thing just in a more offensive manner, or your teams tanks choosing when to use their hard cc to try save their adc or assassins. Like playing Galio for example the timing of when you use your w taunt into e knock up is so crucial to winning the fight. All champions need to time their abilities to a point where they’re most effective to win a fight and all players will be forced to make hard split second decisions that could win or lose a fight.
@@pearse2944 Yeah Galio is one of those exceptions, and tanks generally also have to pay attention in terms of peeling and stuff. That's fine. But what you're still missing, which is evident in the last sentence, is that while all roles need to make split second decisions in teamfights, enchanters USUALLY have to make split second decisions regarding the enemies AND their own team, often at the same time. I don't think a skrimisher, like Fiora for example, needs to pay much attention to how she can affect her teammates, outside of scaring the enemy away from them. And like I said, you are missing the fact that playing enchanters in often about comparing variables really quickly, regarding their teammates' situation. Once again, every role has to do that in order to be effective, but enchanters are required to do that but for their own team as well, AND in more intense ways. Like, let's talk about Fiora again, or any skirmisher. She will likely engage an easy target, or tank because of her true damage, will kill her target, or at least make them back off, and she will then look to start cleaning up enemies that are left on low HP because of her team. Now, if the teams are more evenly matched, she will likely need to bail someone out of a bad situation, by trying to kill their attacker, or by engaging their reinforcements, or at the very least making the attacker scared enough to back off. At the same time all this is happening, she will also need to keep track of her teammates' health bars and maybe some of their cooldowns. The Soraka of the team on the other hand, will start the fight focusing on her ADC, or the most powerful carry of her team, if the ADC is kinda weak, and will then try CC the enemies with her silence/root and slow, while micromanaging her W cooldown, so she doesn't accidentally let someone die. All the while, keeping track of health bars and cooldowns, just like Fiora. Thing is, while Fiora is making split second decisions on who to engage, when and even when to not engage and just help her team, the Soraka making split second decisions on when to heal someone and who to heal, while also making split second decisions on when and where to place her E, where and when to Q, when to ult and where to stand to be safe so she can keep doing all of that. So the way I described it, Fiora has to keep track of two things in the fight, healthbars and cooldowns, and need to make decisions on four things, who to engage, when to engage, if she actually needs to engage and if she needs to bail someone out. Soraka is also keeping track of healthbars, albeit much much MUCH more closely than Fiora, and is making decisions on nine other things, which I already listed. Now you could say that is a specific, biased example and is true for these two champions only. I'd say that this example can be applied to any other role and any other champion, with just slight variations. In the end, the enchanter will MOST LIKELY be making more decisions than other classes, on average.
@@moopey1837 Yes they have more things to do on the macro side, but every other champion in the game Will have to do all the macro things less intensively than the support, but on the micro level of the team fight everyone else (except maybe a tank) Will have to do It much more. And from my prespective, in a teamfight, intense macro and Low micro Is easier than intense micro and Low macro
Enchanters are relatively low skill floor (you really just need to learn what each ability does), but quite difficult to play good with, but can be the big carry of the game. As an enchanter main, it's always trying to keep everyone alive while making sure you are keeping yourself alive. It's a very hard balance (especially when assassins are meta) and when the enchanter dies, a lot of fights go down hill. I felt that a lot playing Lulu, (Janna and Karma have had less of a problem), but the you got instantly killed cause you are instantly targeted and it is quite sad and quite frustrating too. In all honesty, we just wanna do our job ;-;
Being an enchanter you need to have great macro, you decide if you need to roam, who to CC, heal or shield and where to position. You decide when and where many fights happen.
I refuse, Idc if I lose the game but Lulu's are not allowed to play. Hate the gremlin, nothing against the people behind the champ but I refuse to allow Lulu to live.
Honestly, tank Lulu is kinda op lol, the shield mythic (the name escapes me), into redemption, then Zeke's makes you tanky enough to survive burst but still gives you enough mana and cd to use your shields and abilities
Well unfortunately you cannot save everybody sometimes people just are too misspositioned to save so you need learn when people are already dead and you would just die too
yea playing sup is just slave work sometimes if you do good no one notices and if you do bad you get flamed "just heal lol 4head" and if you do good you maybe can get that one honor from adc who went 20/3/1 while you are 0/8/30
oh, this I can relate to. Braindead yuumi they said, as I perfectly timed my Mikaels on my mispositioned Zeri who is up against a 20/2 Renekton or the pink ward I placed on enemy jungle ON FOOT (bear in mind yuumi goes bootless), netting me so much vision score and preventing mid and my Zeri from being ganked successfully. Pretty much all of my games no jungler or midlaner was able to successfully gank me and my adc due to precise warding. It is so much easier with Zyra tho, but I really wanted to challenge myself and my decision making after the Yuumi rework.
As a Lulu main, I've definitely seen entire games get turned around by being at the right place at the right time, even if I gotta burn flash to do so. Turning the right person 'off' with poly or saving someone from certain death with shield/wild growth is *chefs kiss* And yeah I think polymorph should be a skillshot but that's on Riot
Eyyy. A fellow Lulu main nice to meet ya. I love how drastic a change polymorph used in the place can make. A speed here, a disable there. And a fantastic zoning deterrent.
When I started teaching my friend how to play LoL I made him play enchanters in the bot lane like Sona or Soraka with me as an adc so I could keep an eye on him. Because you don't need to farm, you need to learn positioning and learn decision making. Also how to control vision and kinda trading skills useful in all roles. You can learn csing in the practice tool also they're rather simple for how much they give so my friend never truly felt useless. You have no idea how proud I was when he started calling dragon in good timings or roaming without me telling him to do anything. He learnt the game's tempo and feel and went on to learn other roles after.
I used to have friends new to league play support even as a support main for similar reasons, but I found that if they are an overly aggressive player (lie my assassin main friend who complains towers do too much damage literally every match because he is a greedy gremlin then complains they don't do enough when he gets dove) it backfires and just leads to frustration on both the teacher and the new player and can cause them to stop listening to you.
@@quickredf0x143 I mean if they are an aggresive player they can play supports aggressively. Teach them about harrasing the opponent well and their aggression will pay off. Later when they learn at least the basics of the game or at least how to control the champions decently they can go into engage supports. If they're aggressive and don't want to listen to you even if they're getting frustrated because they're playing too aggressively then they're just too stubborn to learn
Roaming is a tough one though. Least in my silver games, it feels as if there is a 95% constant, of one or more, of three things happening. 1. The other jungler is farming near bot constantly, so going alone means death. 2. My ADC needs constant supervision, or they'll instantly die to something. 3. The times roaming options are there, the mid have pushed straight into the other teams tower/are dead. Sometimes, life as a support feels a lot less like being the teams helper, and more like finding the least dumb person, and pray they will make use of you proper. Overgeneralizing, of course. A lot more variety in it than that.
@@LessFluff Yeah gotta disagree with that hard. Top and mid are about good trading, csing and understanding yours and the enemy champion. Now imagine someone new to MoBAs going there. Oh wait you don't have to because I had the same argument with my friend. Wanted to go top because Mordekaiser looks cool. Ok. I guide him through the basics of his match-ups in champ select and loading screen. Every game went at least 0/8 and felt useless for the entire match because he didn't get trading at first, didn't know how to cs well and definitely didn't know how to play vs any top laner or avoid ganks. You need to learn the basics first not jump into calculus without knowing how to multiply. Btw good to know you think SOLO lanes are "fully learning the game" in a TEAM game
i think the thing about Enchanters was pretty much explained in the video- Enchanters themselves are fairly simple and straightforward, the champions typically do not require much mechanical knowledge, but what they require is game knowledge. You don't need to be good at the champion, you just need to be good at the game, these two things being vastly different in my opinion. As you can be good at a champion, but bad at the game itself, and vice versa.
One thing I've always enjoyed about enchanters is that they're mechanically simple (most of them are "unga bunga buttons to protecc") and thus relieving pressure from having to play them right on that end, but hard in game sense and knowledge that will heavily punish you if you screw up even once. Been playing Sona a lot more recently because I'm hyped about SG Sona, and it feels like if I'm not at the right place at the right time the game gets out of control because my dumbass ADC tried to 1v2 and got jumped by a Rengo. God forbid I happen to ward or facecheck into said Rengo trying to set up for dragon/Baron because my screen loses all color and I have to watch my team last half as long during a teamfight!
3:39 This first point can go both ways. An enchanter creates that agency by allowing for what would have been a mistake to be a valid but risky play. That players almost never take conscious use of it and just see it as 'oh so lucky you have braindead enchanter to save you' is the problem.
Oh man my main role finally touched. The hardest part of the job is assesing outcomes, a single buff could be potentially used in 5 of your allies, you cannot just use it because you have to check if your position is ok and if it's worth buffing and ally instead of another. That's in teamfights, in lane we are pretty much in charge of the pressure since most carries have to defend until the first back or don't have cc. Personally I play soraka the most, so I constantly get more focus than my adc. My E could be far worse than a lulu's w in a TF, but lulu's w is far harder to use, 10 potential targets and sometimes what matters the most is when to use it more than who. Of course it would be great to transform the zed as soon as he poops up from his ult right? Now try to do it while being dove by the jungler as well and the frontline fighting, sounds terrible but that's just a typical scenario for a support to handle. We cannot rely on mechanics, we rely on planning, was outcome and reward the best or maybe there was a better solution for my actions? Edit post video: I loved the video, it's amazing that I keep learning things from this role even in a video like this
All the comments are entire essays and i don't get it. It's not completely brainless, nothing in league is, but soraka and other enchanter have such a low skill floor it doesn't matter the ceiling. You can be incredibly effective while being a much worse player then anyone around you, since they have by desing some of the strongest spells in the game that are also usually point and click
yea sometimes other characters the kit plays itself more than you like if you play akshan like the kit has so much shit and you might proc so much stuff that you dont even know or smth and just win fights cuz u have press thw attack and ur passive carry and if you play sup you miss one ability you can lose a fight
I love these videos because you can see who actually plays support and who doesn't. Though for the people against it what do they want more mage supports or do they only want tank supports that they never follow in
As a main enchanter player I agree. It's amazing how we can help turn the tables in a teamfight but its a really frustrating to know that, if your teammates are trash, there is almost nothing you can do to help them. (especially this season)
@@LessFluff its really not the same at all. If you're any other role, you can still get kills, farm, gank... An offensive champion can carry by themselves. An enchanter will never carry by themselves. It's a case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink" I love playing enchanters because I feel like a general or a tactician. I feel like I can "control" my team, sometimes, just based on the buffs I give them. If I give a shield or an offensive buff to a diver, they'll dive. I can heal someone away from death. I may even cc a target and lead my entire team to pounce on them as if controlling them with a button press. SOMETIMES. Other times, no matter which buffs, heals, shields, or CC's I throw, bad players will not take advantage of the situation and run, or ignore the adc I just stunned for a whole second and go all in on the enemy tank who just dived into us. Enchanters are penalized harder than everyone else for bad teammates, because their entire role is to improve their teammates. If you have an uncooperative - or flat out bad - adc and you buff them, it's no different than giving an ability damage boost to a champion that is silenced, or an attack speed boost to a champ that is disarmed
the only thing it takes to master an enchanter is patience with people i imagine enchanters as the people who work in retail who have to deal with bs scenerios on the daily
The only enchanter I will always hate and ridicule is yummi. For me one of the most important parts of learning enchanters is positioning, Yummi just doesn't have to do it and you just can't counter her if you get to the late game, you can talk all you want about her pasive and having to move from one player onto another but you just don't have to do all that to make one player almost unkillable in late game with nothing to do about it. Sona and soraka heal more yeah, but you can oneshot them, Nami has more cc but if she misses her buble she is as good as dead to an assasin, Yummi just needs to stay on top of her strongest teamate.
yea hardest part is to get teammate who can play with yuumi cuz i play support a lot but time to time when i play adc i hate yuumi cuz i dont know how to play with yuumi if i do poorly i get left to 1v2 while yuumi is riding with like kayn around the map
honestly yea. I tried Yuumi out before and I loved the difficulty of managing when to pop out in teamfights for shield, when to dash back and forth; it felt really expressive and I had to know the enemy cooldowns just like a regular support. And then I realized I could not pop out and just stay on a single champ for the entire game :))) Took the fun away.
I feel like enchanters are often overlooked, as their impact on the game isn’t directly seen. If a mid laner goes 20/4 it’s a lot more commendable than an enchanter who is 1/1/25. I’ve picked up on this where if I’m playing soraka or another enchanter and I’m just following around a carry, they can get huge kill streaks without dying. However the carry thinks that they are actually 1v5ing, so if they go into a fight without me they instantly die. They don’t realize it’s the support enabling them to carry games.
If you are doing really good as an enchanter, you don’t get a pat on the back or anything, but if you are okay, people will just say you are useless. This happens all too often, but to me the rewards outweigh the benefits.
Enchanters are like art. Realistically, any idiot can grab a pencil and make lines on some paper. But we all know what truly amazing art looks like and how even though in the end it's all just lines and colours, you know it's not a "it's nothing special" type of thing.
There is a rule that I kind of live by as a Jungler main when choosing how to path early game. That rule is: Bot lane is decided by the supports. Early on, the supports generally decide how well the lane does less so than the ADC. So if I see that my team has a really weak early game support, but a super strong early game ADC, I'll still likely path away if the opposing team has a strong early support and a very weak early game adc. Ofc I play kayn so sometimes I will path to bot anyways because getting my correct form is a heavy factor as well, but when I flex to other JGs like Teemo, Nunu, Voli, Etc... The initial path I take is generally always decided by what supports my team has vs the support their team has. Now, with this being said, I'd like to go over the points you made in favor of enchanters: 1. This isn't a good metric of "are they hard to play." If this was a "are they hard to climb with" video, then I would completely agree. They are stupid hard to climb with because they rely on their team, but just because they're hard to climb with, doesn't mean their hard to play. This is a crutch for most supports in pretty much every game. I mean, look at overwatch. Sure Zen can carry, but if he gets dived he's fucked, so he has to rely on his team to peel for him (unless you're a zen with god aim, but I think you get my point) . Being easy to play != Easy to win with. 2. Every single role has to do this. I'm a kayn player, so lets look at the choices I have to make: Who do I go for? When do I peel for my allies as red kayn, and when do I decide to go full in as the tank? Should I stay in the back and make sure my support/adc stays perfectly safe, or should I try to make plays of my own? As blue kayn, who do I attempt to one shot? When should I attempt to go for a one shot? What path do I have to take to ensure I get the one shot on my target without dying before I get the kill? The fact that supports have to make split second decisions isn't really a good point to make because... Well... Every single role in the game has to do this too. 3. This point is the only one that I agree with. My overall view on this is: They're easy to learn, but hard to master. Overall, enchanters are easier to learn at a base level when compared to the other roles in the game. You first time Jungling? Good fucking luck! You need to learn how to path, when to change your path, keeping track of your jungle timers, you also need to know wave management for when a teammate dies and you have to go collect their wave, or even just hold their wave for them so they don't get fucked. You're a first time assassin? You have to learn your combos, which takes mechanical skill, and you have to learn your limits, especially with the durability update. You playing an ADC? Wave management is huge, you need to learn target prio, how to kite well. Sure supports have to learn how to do this as well, but there is more pressure on you than the supports, because if you fuck up, that's potentially a completely lost lane, if the support fucks up, it hurts for sure but isn't as impactful as an ADC fucking up. However, like every single role in this game, they're hard to master. Learning good vision control, and how to survive when setting up that vision. Timing your abilities in fights, when to roam and leave your ADC, etc... I personally agree with your end point that enchanter players do deserve more respect (the good ones at least, the ones who actually have learned how to play enchanters to their full potential), but I fell that as a class overall, they are easier. But just because they're "easier" doesn't mean they're "easy."
So I watched the video first, but I already know the answer to this question: It depends on the team. A good team will make an enchanter's life really easy, just ward and keep the carry alive (Like Yuumi always does), if the team is bad or both teams are playing almost equally, that's when it goes from piss-easy to very hard, especially in low elo, you gotta keep your team alive, while also giving vision and keeping yourself alive. Depending on team comp, you could either stay back and do your job or be targeted constantly because you're the difference between a teamfight won or lost. Also, enchanters are a good class, but they're so good at their job that only a few items (mostly actives) are worth for them, just look at the stats you usually want on them: Mana regen and cd reduction. As a result, most of their items SUCK, and any enchanter that depends on specific items will suffer with any change to them, remember the ardent censer meta? I don't think anyone will forget that one. I think it is a big contrast with ADcarries, talking about marksmen specifically, if their best items are nerfed, they will feel that nerf, and any buff will be a thousand times better for champs like Yi, Yasuo, Yone or Tryndamere.
I think most enchanters are easy to pick up in a few matches but need immaculate game knowledge and investment to play well. Sona is a great example for this. Very simple kit, but large mana issues and need good positioning since she needs to be near allies and far from enemy fire
don't forget sona passive, everyone always forget that she has that and always thinks it's just more damage, but that's only the blue part, the green is a mini-exaust and purple is a slow
@@doomkingraye7692 yeah, when you are trying to kill someone is much more useful for the team to use purple than blue, blue is mostly useful for poke and tower taking
I really like to draw a comparison to Overwatch for the discussion surrounding Enchanters: In Overwatch, every Support Hero is, de facto, a DPS that also can heal, with the glaring exception of Mercy. Mercy is one of the hardest characters to really get into, since she requires a whole new approach to the game, where perfecting awareness and positioning are mandatory to find success. Same goes for Enchanters in League. They are the only class in the game that don't try to win by killing their enemies (Renata being the exception), they try to win by amplifying the stats and strengths of their allies. Their complete lack of combat pressure means that they need to be hyperfocussed on staying away from enemies, since getting too close means that they simply get blown up. At the same time, target selection is another key skill for Enchanters. Knowing when to buff, who to shield/heal, when to utilize their peel, is crucial to understand, since they can't really stat-check opponents.
@@MrCooljeppe Have you even read my comment? Mercy is far from easy, considering that she has a big target on her back while having the lowest combat pressure. Keeping yourself safe while continuously providing value is the name of the game, one that only Mercy has to play since every other hero can duel their way out. Same applies to Enchanters, BTW.
As a support main here is my opinion: if you know to use your abilities on and when you WILL carry. But on the other hand if your teammate doesn't know how to take advantage of all the things you're handing them or they're just so bad that no matter what they do they die anyway, then you're useless. Overall though it comes down to how good you are but sometimes you get those teammates.
I respect a good Karma, Nami and pre-rework Janna. But the others are too rewarding for how low risk they are. Their job is to either be a stat battery or to make sure interactions such as trying to poke a Soraka or all-in a Morgana pointless. Also, because of Riot directly interfeering whenever enchanters trickle down to other roles and exclusively design them to synergyze with a single class (exception being Nami), they can feel very redundant.
@@screechingtoad2683 Morgana has a shield a root a cc ultimate and some form of directed damage ability. She is an enchanter, just one that can function as a control mage.
@@Vladumere Kayle can heal allies, is she an enchanter? Tham kench can shield allies, i guess he's an enchanter too. Thresh can shield allies, he's an enchanter by your logic
@@Vladumere you just disproved your own point. She has only one ability that interacts with allies so clearly she is not an enchanter. Enchanters buff shield and heal their allies. She is a catcher. Her abilities serve to lock down enemies not enhance her allies
This video is a very good way to describe enchanters. Too often are we undervalued or flat out ignored for our role in a fight. Everyone praises the adc that just got a pentakill, but nobody acknowledges the work the support just put in to make sure that happened. As a Zilean one trick I enable carry champs. I can make a good adc great, but no matter what I do, I can't make a bad adc good. I can only give them the tools, they still have to use them. Even if it means leaving lane to enable someone more fit to carry than the adc if they are underperforming. End of the story though, enchanters aren't difficult to play, but like you put very well, it's the value you bring and the split second decisions that can make or break a game.
One thing that struck me in this video is that vars compares karma's shield to effectively granting an amount of gold to a champion... but if that's the case, don't we have to comparitively do the same for everything else? How much gold is one of Leona's CC's worth? How much is Shaco's clone worth? Kha'zix's isolation passive? Tristana's E? It's a good argument, but unless we know how much gold everyone else's abilities would be by comparison, it rings somewhat hollow.
i hate it when people say that enchanters are easy. There is an LS clip right, (I know he is devisive) where some guy complains that playing enchanters sucks. They said it's difficult to ward since assassins just kill you. LS said that's the point, the tough champions are these ones because you need to know where and when you can enter a certain area. There is no such thing as an *easy* champion. Every champion has a required skill, if you argued certain champions are better in certain elo's, sure. I think actually Naut, Rell, Leona, Blitz, Pyke and Pantheon are better in low elo because you hook and win. Does that mean this are braindead unga boonga champs, No of course not, people start to dodge your stuff so now you need to learn to consistently land your hooks. Eventually you will reach a skill level where people position properly and without the ability ot engage on to the right targets you become instanly a walking bag of gold. In higher elos I would say enchanters are better because the only way you could make engage supports good is if it's duo or Yasuo (although I see even in high elo players still get caught). Enchanters on the other hand need some level of deep thought, you can't really force anything. So you simply have to follow your teams plays and actually stand in the right place or risk dying. Yuumi for example. no matter how much people think Yuumi is this OP champion she is only as good if the person she is attached too is good. Essentially a win hard or lose hard chamion, no inbetween. The best way to describe enchanters is that they are the mommies of solo que, constantly being safe cautious and loving to the entire lobby with healing, utility and vision. Engagers are the daddys, going out there and winning the game for the family. Yes Adcs are the kids, Midlaners are the first born and toplaners are that middle child no one cares about.
It's also worth noting that the first counter is not a good one as taking into account the ressources of other players is also a skill not necessarily one linked to the enchanter but one none the less. As an example of when a player was not aware was I was supporting a renecton who was fairly Fed with soraka essentially filling his life bar faster than the enemy could deplete it making him a full raid boss, but he didn't realize that so he turned away killing me and someone else in the process.
When I’m an enchanter, I’m there to protect, but I’m also willing to flash in front of the enemy to Janna ult them back to my team, to prevent them escaping under tower. Enchanters may be squishy and low damage, but don’t discount the cc and utility
that's why if you know how to properly play them enchanters can be so strong in soloq. I got grandmaster playing Sona and Soraka and i always felt in control of erasing the mistakes of my teammates and capitalizing on that. Whereas a engage tank needs to fight a one tempo fight AND WIN but because soloq is disorganized this is where enchanters thrive.
„You won’t go *oh shit!*. What’s Nami gonna do?” I remember 3 enemies running for their life when I went full ap nami mid and went 19/3. Happened once but boy was it satisfying
I feel like this ignores that the fact that a lot of people disrespect enchanters is just sexism. League players disproportionately despise anything feminine in this game to an extraordinary degree, and most enchanters are girly and feminine. People who will trash a Lulu or a Janna vitriolic ally will rarely have nothing too negative to say about a Taric, and if they do it is generally more respectful.
The funny thing about enchanters and supports in general is that everyone is dependent on your plays. The problem here is every player thinks that a support is an enchanter and expects you to buff them in all places and see the map always. As someone who adjusts like playing ap supports to balance a full ad team. They think a zyra lux and xerath would shield and tank everything for you. It’s just annoying as a support that their misplacement and overextending moves in a team fight is your fault for not saving them.
I only play renata and I gotta say her w on certain champs like Master Yi, Rengar, Bel'Veth is bit much sometimes. Kinda like how nami buff on someone like Lucien is a bit much. The hardest part about enchanter is just positioning since theyre pretty immobile and decision making with your big abilities.
yea and for champs like lulu yea they are point and click abilities but in team fights it is sometimes so hard to get spells to right person when they have double effect that you can use to your teammates or enemys and nowdays everyone has so much mobility that enchanters cant always keep up with the tempo
The fun thing about Renata is being low elo and ulting the enemy fed Yasuo to kill his own team and then proceed to sacrifice your own team to kill him
I seriously need to give Vars a taste of battle Yummi with Stormrazor first item. You play normal support but thanks to Stormrazor's zap you get additional point and click slow ability, additionally because you got some "solo" items you can divert pressure from your ADC by body blocking skill shots and delivering crucial basic attack damage during lane skirmish
At one time I was really good with Zilean Support. One time I hard carried a team as Zilean Mid Carry using a support build. While I was alone in lane my Ka'zix camped nearby getting plenty of kills. I event got a 2x kill on a LeBlanc and her jungler under her own tower.
Not to mention which enemy to debuff and how Sona, per example. You have 3 options on your passive: extra damage, damage debuff or slow. Each of them can make a huge difference
I think every question in League can be answered with, "Everything has its own skills and everything depends on context." That being said, of all enchanters, I despise Yuumi the most. Players literally can "play" her afk. You can't do that with literally any other champion. All other supports and enchanters, A+ I love a good one.
Honestly, that mindset within the playerbase is kind of the problem. People who don't play Yuumi they think they can just afk on someone, occasionally press E, and call it a day, so they pick her because they're in a 'Netflix and League' mood and don't really want to try too hard. But if that's how you're playing Yuumi, you're doing it wrong (not you personally, just a general you). I'm not gonna pretend like she requires big-brained mechanical skill, but she definitely has important decisions to make just like any other champion, and the player's skill can be the difference between winning and losing a game (yes, you can actively be 'good' or 'bad' at her!). It's not just 'sit on ADC and press E lol.'
Yea I may dislike Lulu but Yuumi definitely takes the cake for the only enchanter I actively despise seeing on either team. How did Riot manage to make a champ so easy and low risk that you can play them with your feet? I really don't get it.
Thanks for speaking up for enchanters. They are definitely the most under appreciated roles/class in league of legends as people would just boss them around, tell them to follow around and never take credit for anything(kills, minions). Skill-wise enchanters are a bit simpler but it's definitely hard to not tilt in the game when you don't get respected for your job. IMO the hardest part of playing enchanters would be to manage your emotions to stay calm :,(
Most enchanter's kits are not stupid hard, but not tilting while being screamed at by my 0/4 adc who gave up two kills before 5 minutes is some max level difficulty.
Why are Milio's AP ratios such garbage? As a support, hes never gonna reach more than 200 AP anyways, his W, E and R should all have TWICE the scaling. There is literally no point in building AP-ish support items, and his shields / heals are literally worthless post 20 min... MIght as well just build tanky items + Redemption, which defeats the whole purpose of a champ who specializes in heals / shields... Why are enchanters doomed to be garbage every time? Meanwhile, tank support is still going to do more damage and be more tanky, and have more CC thats relevant all game long.
No matter how hard you try to argue about Enchanters they'll be always the easiest class to play (Their skillfloor is really low). Also points in favor of Enchanters don't seem that convincing. 1st point - They don't. If Janna starts roaming, then she puts as much pressure as Jungler (Her ganks are ironically much stronger than Jungle ganks). 2nd point - Any class requies quick decision making, not just Enchanters. 3rd point - Assuming you can play Support role it shouldn't be that hard. If Leona facechecks it will end the same way as if Lulu facechecked - They'll both die. Only argument I can agree with is that you have to have good Macro to play them. But then again that's all you ACTUALLY have to learn to play them.
People who say enchanters are hard/skillfull are only people who EXCLUSIVELY play enchanter supports. I can make a list of reasons why they're the easiest class in the game, so I will: 1. No enchanters are mechanically hard in any way, their crucial abilities are always point-n-click. A Nami that cant land her bubbles still has value, a Morgana/Blitz who cant land roots/hooks are worthless. 2. Unlike engage supports(2nd easiest class) you dont have accelerate the game, make plays or be expected to move around the map, you're more than fine just existing in a slow paced game because enchanters have cheap items and inherently scale well. 3. It leans up of n. 2, but you dont have to play proactively, you can always just play "losers-game" and wait for you enemy to make mistakes. 4. This is general for the support role, but you not having to care about getting gold/exp for yourself basically takes away an entire stress factor that every other role has to play around. It takes a lot of macro to find the most ideal way to move around the map to gain resources for yourself, it changes from game to game, what sidelane matchups you can win, where the enemy team could be on the map, how to gain tempo on opposing sidelaner. Supports have a much more simple macro, be around where you expect a play to be made and put wards where you feel having vision would be nice. The key points listed as to why enchanters take skill are not really strong points. Having to give resources to your teammates can be done by any other role. An Ashe ADC that shoots an arrow towards midlane essentially donates some of her pressure in botlane towards her midlaner, likewise mid/top/jungle also are expected to impact other lanes, but they have to weight it much more because everything put towards their other lanes are tempo they take away from their own 1v1 matchup. Micromanaging your tools in teamfights is something EVERY SINGLE CHAMP does, like what good does a Leona engage do if her backline is getting bursted by a bruiser/assassin, especially because its harder to switch target/focus once you're commiting yourself to another play. Accomplishing support tasks is not significantly harder as an enchanter, as many enchanters have many powerfull "nope" tools. Unless your champ is very mobile you cant really run down a Lulu/Karma/Janna for example, she has a slow, a shield, movespeed buff, long duration cc and they all have even bigger "nope" in their ults.
I still stand by my opinion that enchanters take no skill. Because I've been auto filled support quite a few times and played a few. It's not hard at all to support, and the only thing I sucked at was ward score. Now a class that deserves praise more than enchanters are juggernauts. I dare someone to challenge me on this. As a juggernaut you have to not only just frontline, but live long enough to be useful in the team fight dancing in and out of combat. All this while the enemy team primarily throws all the cc at you, you're slower than every single champ, and if you didn't itemize effectively you get blown to bits. This is why when I see a Darius get a penta, I don't even care if I'm the adc. I am the Darius' support now.
Entchanters dont get enough credit, since their plays aren't that flashy. When your midlaner get a quadra kill while surviving at low health, everyone praises him. While you as an entchanter stand right next to him and think to yourself: "I just dumped 1k health worth of healing/shielding into you, where is my praise?" Its so hard to play an entchanter in a way where other people notice you being the teamcarry.
I have this argument... Overall they are easy to play... Think about it... Imagine a lulu in a game.. do nothing but stand behind adc/ any carry...and just spam shield ult and other shite... Like they don't even have to ward... And they would still be more effective then many other picks out there... So yes... Conclusion... Easy to Play... They deserve to get shit on
yea if you do good no one notices and if you do poorly you get rep thats how it is i am bronze noob and sup main so i feel you but you are so brave that you play jungle i have so much respect for jungle mains
lowest flooring, but some what higher end ceiling. However the requirements are even higher than its co-op partner adc in mid-low elos, adc does not need to trade, deep ward, rotate and help secure skuttle, help early dragon, roam, knowing when to engage or disengage, supports do much much more than adcs in mid-low mmrs.
Before I played league, I played vainglory. In that game, the game styles are much different (despite being a moba) due to being 3v3 (laner, jungler, 1 single support). The support in the comp would always be tanky and have agency in fights, whether or not they were an enchanter/mage type supports (lorelai, lyra, and adagio). This still carried through when it moved to 5v5, so I thought enchanters would be self sustaining as well. But in league it feels like enchanters are give all but receive nothing (while also being blamed but never thanked lmao). It would be nice if league enchanters were able to sustain/defend themselves by at least a fraction of the same way they sustain/defend teammates.
10:21 I made this exact argument on a previous video but with soraka's entire kit and different murder monkeys. I feel vindicated. I'm not looking forward to every comment's replies dissolving into rage induced word vomit.
I play Draven and do not enjoy playing Lulu. The former is intuitive, the latter is an enigma. I think it's the difference between reactive and proactive gameplay. As a baseline. One style involves making a play and going in, the other involves waiting for someone else to make a play or enabling someone to make a play and then reacting to that change in gamestate. Enchanters (barring Zilean) are going to appeal less to people who just want to blow stuff up, and vice versa.
it's so amazingly fullfilling to save some in the game and actually admit you did save them :) and it's soo annoying where you have to spend resources to save 3 different people only to decide to go back into a fight with 20% health and blame you for not shielding them :P i personally have been playing Enchanter ever since i started League... Janna , Sona and Lulu were always my primary picks and i always felt like the games i played were either we won and all the credit were to the carry we lost and all the blame went to the support and jungle in the games we win you are never aknowledged and in the games you lose you feel like there was nothing you can do to turn the tides!
I mean, your first point saying eliminates teammates mistakes has nothing to do with how easy or hard the role is. It is something that the role does. Whether the argument of how op the role is fair enough, but not the skill to play them
the main problem with enchanters is how our monkey brain works you can carry a game with an engage supporter more easily by getting picks, monkey sees stunned enemy, monkey jumps on it carrying with enchanters is different, most abilities only come when they are needed, so you have to trust your team and your team has to trust in you this is the same reason why they look easy, the buttons either are pressed on time, which is what every other class does, or it isn't, and you get flamed (or you press buttons and still get flamed because teammate 1# didn't recieve the ability when they were expecting to)
People call support the easiest role then proceed to get autofilled and int on Nautilus because they don’t understand you can’t just hook every person you see
I love seeing enchanters get the credit they deserve, it's basically the only role in the game where, during a 5v5, they have to actually divide a lot of their focus between all the 10 players, yes all classes have to pay attention to their surroundings but not as much as enchanter, if you're an assassin you focus on the enemy backline and everyone that can disrupt you (so, you+2-3 champions=3-4 champions), if you're an ADC you have to focus on your positioning (including possible flanks) and your surroundings, so everything outside of your range you can usually deal with just after you've dealt with what is in your range (so you+possible flank+enemy frontline~4-5 champions), and the list goes on. Not that these classes are inferior, easy or anything like that, there are other difficulties in performing well as ADC, assassins, etc, I personally love playing both Akali, enchanters (and every class for that matter), they all have their own difficulties to perform well, the thing about enchanters is simply because they are very easy to learn in a very basic level (champs like Akali and Qiyana are super hard to perform even half descent because you have to practice their combos very quickly and all), but to actually do a very good job on an enchanter it's super hard, and Yuumi is the proof of that, if you just sit onto your Aatrox/Yasuo the whole game pressing R and E in descent timings, that's it, already making a difference in the game if the Yasuo knows what it's doing, but to make a huge difference the Yuumi needs to know when (and have the reflexes) to use Mikael's, when/how to jump off and recharge their mana safely, what to build, etc.
I don't really play enchanter supports but I can say that it is very easy to tell when then opposing enchanter support is good or bad. Many people say it is a "low skill floor, high skill ceiling" class but in laning phase trying to understand how to make an impact as an enchanter is very difficult, I would probably say that even the skill floor is pretty high.
A lot of people think playing an enchanter is an excuse to play passively, but the ones that are aggressive at the right times are the best to play with hands down. Also enchanters are an easy fallback for people who get auto filled which probably skews the perception of them.
When I play adc I feel like having a lulu, soraka or janna is a coinflip. I either get that support that defends me as if I were The control ward in the bot middle bush or the other kind of support that is just behind me, not poking at all thus being behind us 3 other laners in gold and then when we get into a fight just hits 2/3 buttons and calls it a day....at most.
@@kfk4441 i agree i am sup main and sometimes i play too passively cuz i dont know how my adc wants to play like i do poke enemys if i can but same time i try to save mana just in case because i want to save the adc still and like with soraka i need to have also hp to heal my adc
One of my favorite analogies about enchanters is that it’s kind of like 1+1=2, each respective 1 being the lane pressure and basically everything that the champion provides to the fight. What makes enchanters look brainless is that a lot of the times, some smurfing ADC or god tier ADC can basically be worth 1.5/2, so all the enchanter has to do is provide like, 0.5. But a good enchanter can be worth more than 1, they can carry their ADC or stomp lane or carry their team. I think a prevalent problem with frustrating enchanter players are that they provide no lane pressure and don’t play too aggressively, like a Soraka who doesn’t auto attack or go for Q and just sits under tower pressing w sometimes. They can heal and save teammates later in the game, but they play lane really badly. It’s not too hard to save your teammates in a team fight as an enchanter, but there is some nuance to what they can do early and mid. Like vs lanes with little CC, Yuumi actually has really good kill pressure.
The only reason I play enchantress is for the one momment I give my the opportunity to shine knowing I was the one who allowed it, giving me the endorsement and saying that I was a great support
Supports in general, but especially enchanters have to constantly micromanage 9 other people in every game, while also looking out for themselves, and try not to get any credit or they'll get called trolls for e.g. "stealing kills"
Super awesome video as someone who mains enchanters, I always feel like you can see the difference. But also sometimes I do feel like I still did nothing especially if I have a run away top who by the time I go help them is like 10 and 0 lol. Also when they do that they screw with my grade since assists are part of it. Lolz
Imo, it can be easy to play enchanter if you duo with someone who is good. But that feels like... meh. Thus why I strictly play solo. One thing I think is important part of "skill" is becoming good with roaming (this comes together with wave management and timer for everything, map awareness - in a bundle). It makes a great difference vs support who is bot and follows their premade adc whenever they go.
If enchanters can play 100% reactively and don't have to make a good decision about who to protect and which enemies to play around, then they feel like they are broken and remove counterplay. But if damage and burst in the game is high and enchanters can be punished and have to be careful of how close they can step than they are balanced. The meta needs to find a balance between when an engage support can be braindead engage without any care and cc for years and enchanters literally face tanking engage and overextending and not getting punished. Also having long cd's to punish windows for important enchanter abilities is important
as a sup main i can confirm it is that and i need usually to babysit my adc like morg kit is so good i need to stop the bad guys with Q and W is just little area and E is nono dont touch my adc
As a Orianna main who plays her mid and support i can say that if i want to ragequit game and sweat all day i go mid. When i go support orianna i can do literally everything wrong and still manage to win bcs of funny aery moonstone interaction and after durability patch everyone is laking dmg to do something. Before durability it was harder, now its super easy.
As a enchanter main myself I think that playing the champions itself is not that hard, the hard part is how to react and position yourself in teamfights. For example, at lvl 1 as karma vs an alistar your goal is to be super annoying because the alistar cannot engage on you but then at lvl 2 keep your distance. Warding too, wards are super important, it doesnt matter if they gave vision or not, because if no enemy was spotted that means THEY ARE NOT THERE, so they could be anywhere else. But yeah its annoying when I play normals as another class and I get flammed for only playing "brainded supports" to claim on ranked :/
As an adc main, i have always noticed big difference between enchanter and engage sp. If someone gets autofilled, i advise them to take tanly engage sp rather than enchanter cause inexperienced one just spams all of the button at neutral and doesn't know what he is doing. Not to mention, can't maintain its mana so runs of it pretty soon and lane becomes 1v2. Jg comes to gank, mid assasian comes to have a cup of tea and life becomes hell. A good enchanter has saved me from close death so many times and even at tower dives where we get kills on enemy team instead.
Hell nah you just wanted someone to save ur ass if u messed up.
So much this. Bad enchanter supports feel so bad to play with. You only get away with it because players are bad and a lot of time playing a 1v2 isn't always 'exposed' and exploited.
So true. That's also the number one reason why I hate it when Soraka/Janna are s-tier supports cause just because Soraka is a s-tier support doesn't mean you are a s-tier player.
they’re playing brand anyway so ir doesn’t matter
A fair point, but from thw other side (as a support main, mostly playing Sona, Yuumi, and Seraphine, like some sorta Disney weeb) I can understand why people wouldn't listen to the call for being an engager.
With enchanters, you can still have some semblance of protection, and will be more about following up on your team, rather than the other way around. Whereas as engage, you have to be the frontliner, and there's no telling if people will follow you in, no matter what you ping, or how obvious the dive gets. I have played a lot if Rell too. I have sadly seen that scenario, firsthand, too many times.
Hence, I can understand, if the autofilled one, doesn't wanna put their eggs in one basket. Unless it's Blitzcrank, since most can understand "I pulled him here. Now bash out his teeth" Q's.
That said, for autofills, I'd agree that safer engagers like hook champs, or mabe mages, would be better than enchanters. Cause a say, mid main, won't like feeling as powerless and team reliant, as enchanters tends to be. Sure they can make plays, but they need a team with a bit between the ears to be so.
2:50 One of my favorite moments was playing soraka and ulting because my team’s yas was gonna die. Yas kills his opponent and the opponent says in all chat “ I hate you soraka.”
Soraka main here, my favorite thing in laning phase is to ult to turn the tide of a fight somewhere else on the map. That's a very nice clutch low HP kill you could be getting Riven, it would be a shame if my top laner suddenly got a few hundred HP back from bot.
thats how u kno ur doing a good job
I like Soraka but a harder to play but kind of a wild card in Engage/Enchanter cathegory is Taric. Taric can Heal, Shield, Stun and make all of your team invulnerable if he and linked ally are positioned just right. You can even try going top or even jungle if your mates help you at the start.
@@NMG.11 a guy who hasn’t played support in a while here. Tried Taric recently, I can micro manage all the things he has to keep track of. I will stay on my low apm champions like Cassiopeia…
Another one that feels insanely hard to play is ivern, like daisy is so damn hard to utilize.
I had a similar moment with Sona. I saw a 1v1 happening in river and swung in with a w, power chord, q and the enemy after dying goes "Sona is such bs"
The thing about enchanters is that their decision making is different from everyone else's. They have the least kill potential and are squishy so they need to position well but must do so while still being able to use their spells. On top of this they need to change their build to suit their team (only tanks occasionally need to do this) and decide who is worth generally supporting and who isnt. Then in the middle of combat they gotta decide whether to continue buffing the best teammate or save a teammate thats about to die. Also, in case you're playing an enchanter that buffs speed like Sona you need to kinda direct people to rotate or be aware that a teammate wants to rotate somewhere. All of that on top of being 60-100% of your team's vision by warding.
exactly
I agree completly with everything but the part about people not having to adjust to your teammates.
You always no matter what you play should account for the strenghs and weaknesses of your team and build accordingly.
I am an Akali main for example and have a standart build that is very AP heavy but if I see that I am the only one who can soak the enemies team pressure because we have a Neeko top, a Zed Jungle, a Soraka Lucian Botlane then who is going to play the "Tank" nobody if I dont do it and so I go more into HP and Resi stats paired with a demonic embrase to convert the HP I have into a bit of AP.
If I go the tanky route I normaly play "You can't kill me Akali" where I try to seem like a threat but the real threat is the rest of the team and while they spamm their abilites to kill me in my shroud my team kills them. If the try to turn on my team I will jump onto them. Given DE I still do damage so they are kind of in a lose lose situation.
If I just went normal AP we would probably get just killed one after another.
(I have to say tho that I hardly ever dodge because I believe even if the Teamformatiom is very off meta it's probably still winable. Kind of like an Itachi Uchia mentality if you know that character :)
Edit: Grammar
@@pullsane What you're describing is something that happens because of a poor draft. What I mean is that your teammates performance can influence your build. Say I'm a Yuumi with a Kog'ma that plays like they're soft int'ing. I wont be building an Ardent Censor for them and would probably be better off building to suit my toplane Sett who is popping off.
Also, it's not uncommon that a team just doesnt have a tank and building damage is always the best way to further your lead, unless you're a tank or enchanter. In which case the tank builds to counter either the most people on the enemy team or the best person on the enemy team. The enchanter instead has to do what I mentioned earlier and tailor their build around whatever teammate is preforming well.
@@autisonm yeah but literally every teammate will do this, just because yours suits your team rather than them building against opponents makes literally zero difference, and it’s not like being like building decisions are a very complicated thing because all items have very clear and defined a strengths so it’s easy to know what to pick.
@@pearse2944 Yeah I kinda tend to group tanks and enchanters together in my comments because they tailor their builds around others. (tanks build for the enemy, enchanters for their allies)
The difference is that performance is a much bigger factor and more nuanced for enchanters on who they build for. In my previous example I talked about changing the build around to help a good Sett instead of a soft int'ing Kog'ma, but what if it wasnt that cut and dry? For tanks it almost always is that cut and dry since they rarely have to build defenses against an AP and AD hyper carry.
Imagine the Kog'ma is just having a rough time or is getting unlucky and is a bit behind but is doing decent. You pair better with him than Sett who doesnt have as good of a late game either. Do you build for Sett or Kog?
As someone who enjoys playing many enchanters, I feel like the class as a whole can be described as "easy to learn, hard to master." Enchanters often need to decide who to shield and/or heal in skirmishes and big team fights and also need to watch their positioning so they don't ge caught out, as they have no mobility and are very squishy.
Do I need to save my ultimate for this useless skrimish or for the dragon fight later but risking flame
HARD TO MASTER? SHIELD YOUR ADC? PRESS E? DONT EVEN GET ME STARTED ON YUUMI
@Muffy yeah all adcs do is right click
@Muffy Congrats, you explained league! Great job
@Muffy no, your analogy is dumb , you cant just win an argument by making random analogies so try again
Enchanters are the ultimate patience test lol. It's so hard babysitting a bad or toxic ADC :(
Clearly u never played jungle
@@bloatersnake9787 I play both Jungle and Support. Support is definitely worse.
@@SalineT39 10 times so. I feel like a daycare handler when playing Janna and doping on my 6th coffee in the morning.
@@MrKaappimorso Same, friend
It's just so much harder to keep your sanity when your adc dies for 5th time after getting caught for some dumb reason and just blaming everything on ya, you can't carry games when you're playing support, you really gotta rely and help others do it for you, which sucks, no matter how well you're doing if your teammates are fucking up you can't do much about it. Team games am I right
Simple fix for that. Just roam, help the rest of the team. Don't leash yourself to that troglodyte ADC that's only going to be feeding, and if your amazing at support YOU CAN HELP CARRY THE TEAM
Low skill floor, high skill ceiling.
Low skill floor, low skill ceiling
High skill floor, low skill ceiling.
High skill floor, high skill ceiling.
Floor ceiling skill, low high skill.
@@hotpants_russia_z LMAO
As an enchanter player, what makes enchanters LOOK braindead is their ability to ride off other people’s success. Shielding a 10/0 riven doesn’t look particularly skillful but because of the nature of tank support kits (e.g. going in and hooking) they tend to LOOK more skillful or flashy compared to enchanters but they would get carried by a 10/0 riven all the same.
I feel like this is also the reason some people who play an enchanter because they’re autofilled say they’re skill-less since you can easily get carried as one.
The main difference i see with good enchanters and bad ones is their macro, positioning, and awareness. Knowing when to roam, positioning far up enough that you can CC enemies while also protecting allies, and being aware enough of enemy positions and cooldowns to place wards or save skills can be mentally taxing tbh and people underrate that because “i click shield and win”
edit: not to mention the fact that your team’s mistakes in positioning affect you much more since you aren’t built with the capacity to kill people so walking up to try and save someone can easily cost your life, making your team lose all the heal, shields, and peeling you provide
Yeah its like the support team of a artillery, yeah sure doing they're doing math, but their doing math to blow up tanks
I feel like a 10/0 riven don't even need the support near her and you might be better off peeling for someone else
BTW I'm a jungle mid main (lately ore mid than jgl) and sometimes I get filled in support or play support with friends and every time I do anything everyone get scared like "why is this support so cocky?" meanwhile I'm level 3 invading the jungle to ward or pushing the enemy bot under tower with poke
Supports going to help the wrong person means death for them
@@doomkingraye7692 a 10 riven dying in a skirmish or teamfight is prob gonna cost you an objective or the game, and that riven prob has a 700 bounty on them. So yes, that riven should have all the support available to carry the game.
It’s just like what jg mains say, gank ur winning lanes to push your advantage, and allow that laner/s to roam and put pressure around the map. Although im casual autofilled, i play a lot of jg, and that’s what i hear from jg pros.
@@ghanaria7996 if a riven has become that fed probably she can 1v5 no problem, if someone on the other team was strong enough to actually do anything about her she would have died before the 5th kill
(I'm talking about a plat+ riven that managed a 10/0 score, in low elo Maybe the adc is fed too and he just never even the riven)
Well, you said out loud what I thought about the class.
As an enchanter main I do find myself in a pickle when "boohoo all enchanters brain-dead get carried" while playing solo.
Sure most of these guys have had a couple good games as enchanters and turned it into an absolute statement.
Meanwhile I have to ignore the ADC who dived while enemy jungler was approaching and is blaming me.
Good grief amiright?
If all enchanters get brain dead carried then shouldn’t we all be challenger 😂
@@alliu6562 that's complex.
I guess they see supports as both brain-dead broken and still useless as they need to be carried.
No clue how the two things can work together tho.
As a Yuumi OTP, I do like being carried
@@acecream8568 quite literally for that matter lmao
Was the ADC me?
I'd say the hardest part of playing enchanters is the rng of getting a good adc and carrying them to a penta or getting one who just bought a level 30 acc and afk if he has a woman on his team
yea the rng in low ranks is insane i am got dropped to bronz and as a sup main i feel like my adc's usually have no idea what to do they want lvl 1 fights to happens and tries to force plays when we are clearly so much behind in gold and have no chance to win a fight but "you gotta try" i quess and then he dies solo in lane and you get the "just heal lol"
"Just get better luck bro"
Don’t tunnel vision into getting your adc to carry you. If you see mid or top doing well 9/10 times you’re better off leaving your adc and start support your mid or toplaner. Don’t be afraid to just leave your lane after lvl 6 and don’t look back
I liked how you presented the strength of all players in percentage. I liked the idea of the exchange and the deposit: make a bet and win or place a bet and lose everything
Just another point about how to play this class. We always praise the warriors but we never praise the tactician. Watch any T1 game, you always hear the saying the whole enemy map is blind and the map is bright for T1... and you never stop to think thank to whom the map is like that. They may lose in combat but never on map control thanks to certain some one.
the map being lit up is a team effort, supports walking around randomly and dropping wards is the best way to get caught out.
I mean... keria is frequently praised as one of the best supports of all time. The casters and community definitely give plenty of credit to the dude.
@@pissbaby9893 most times it isn’t. Supports have to know the minion lines of all nearby lanes so they don’t get behind in EXP while also knowing where enemy jug, mid, and support are to get a ward timer for deep wards. For example, a yuumi is very immobile and an adc death is also a yuumi death effectively, so wards should be set up. Deep vision will be so hard to pull off, so engage enemy junglers and enemy supports can just kill their lane if they try to take plates. Enchanters have to know their limits and that’s easily why renata builds tanky runes and masteries with her.
"By that logic, all you have to do as a jungler is to gank lanes..."
Nunu players: "And I took that personally."
10:35 speaking as a Sona main, micromanaging her power cords is one of the most rewarding but also stressful parts of playing her.
Hitting a clutch W power chord makes me feel like an actual Goddess.
Wdym by micromanaging? Keeping an eye on her cooldowns?
@@shima8321 I assume they are talking about which spell does she use her passive on. Q does shit load of damage, W apply %damage reduction, E does huge Slow.
@@shima8321 No, each power chord does different things for different purposes. Q is a double damage aa which can help close the health gap for your carry(or avenge them if you couldn't heal fast enough). W reduces the threat potential of the aa'd enemy with a damage nerf for a few seconds. And E is a peeling aa to slow a chasing enemy. Pair them with the effects of the auras, and its a really fine line of what do you need when, and choosing whether you want the chord effect with a suboptimal aura, or the reverse in a teamfight.
it sorta compensates the fact that you can just AoE heal, shield and speed teammates up instead of actually having to think who you wanna shield
Ardent meta lives rent free in people's mind.
The one time when allied adcs were nice to enchanters, now back to being yelled at for existing.
I miss ardent meta lol every item had built in movement speed
when I say "supp diff" as a mean to thank my lulu/soraka/janna etc for saving someone's ass after they got caught out and turn it ,, they get mad and say "no its all me, that lulu didnt do shit" ,,, ego problem in lol is too high
yea it is just because sups dont have flashy plays they are useless and then i love how people complains in bronze sups for having "bad stats" when they dont have kills but if you take one kill as enchanter sup oh no your adc gonna be pissed
I say support diff when i play something like a Soraka Top then dominate as we all know Top is just the second support role lol
I've found that enchanters are among the most difficult to play in lane if you have an inexperienced ADC. An engage support is at least able shot call and outline a general game plan for an inexperienced ADC to follow, setting up kills and such, and a messy lane is still generally playable for an engage support. But as an enchanter, they're more reliant on passive/subtle things like wave management, taking safe trades, setting up for objectives, proper positioning, all things that inexperienced ADCs are likely not doing properly and are difficult to communicate on the spot. If you're with an ADC that doesn't know how to play these kinds of lane, the lane is essentially lost, and the team starts flaming you for being "useless" when in reality the enchanter can do very little in these situations.
I just cant agree with you, if you have a shitty adc you can just stand as far back as possible and reduce the amount of times they die, if you’re a tank support and your adc is completely brainless you’ll do nothing but bait yourself because they just don’t help you after a certain amount of time both can just roam I don’t think either is better. Tank supports require all of the same “passive/ subtle” things you mentioned I feel like the enchanter community just feels like tank supports are brainless while the rest of the community thinks that enchanters are.
@@pearse2944 Tank supports have only 2 tries in lane. If you engage and lose 2 times (resulting in the death of your adc), the enemy adc will likely win all-ins cuz gold lead; you can't engage anymore.
For me, it depends on match up and just how inexperienced my adc is for whether tanks or enchanters are the better pick. I'm a leona main and still prefer soraka with inexperienced adcs because I can still exhibit map pressure with my ult while sitting back and keeping my adc safe while they farm. Although, other enchanters like janna can roam and/or wait for mid to late game. Carry supports like brand, zyra, pyke, senna, and lux also do an amazing job mitigating an inexperienced adc's shortcomings but do nothing to help them learn and are much less effective if your adc perma-shoves.
@@pearse2944 There isn't just entire brainless classes because, before looking at the nuances, most supports' gameplay involve what all supports have to do, and it has a lot to do with macro at a level that's more vigilant than other roles besides jungle. There are, albeit few, relatively micro-intensive and/or high skill ceiling champions in both tank and enchanter supports and vice versa (e.g. Thresh/Nautilus and Janna/Yuumi), but how easy things are often depend more on the game state (result of the entire team) than the specific champion you pick. It's definite more frustrating to engage with an inexperienced adc that doesn't match your aggression than to throw out non-commital heal/shields, but the alternative of roaming to other lanes (let adc freeze) and establishing vision control is easier to make happen on a Leona than a Soraka for instance.
The number one thing to take away from the arguments that are in favor of the idea that enchanters are harder than they seem, is the idea that they have to pay attention to 9 people in the game, not 5. They cannot just focus on the enemies, like the other classes. Even engage supports mainly focus the enemy, although they also have to peel for their team and stuff. Enchanters, by their nature of being buff givers, always have to pay attention to their teammates, and anyone who says otherwise is either lying, or malding in reddit threads about Lulu or some shit. It takes half a braincell and 10 games as an enchanter to understand that if you aren't paying attention to your teammates, as much as the enemies, you are playing the class the wrong way.
Literally every player has to pay attention to their teammates also I have no idea what you are on about, at all times you have to consider the enemy teams and your teams champs , abilities , strengths , cooldowns I feel like enchanters use macro as an excuse for their lack of mechanics when literally every other teammate is doing the same shit. There is timing in team fights and stuff like that but I don’t feel like it’s that much of a difference compared to any other champs with utility I feel like enchanters are just as ‘stat checky’ as some of the poorly designed top laners.
@@pearse2944 I mean of course you have to pay attention to your teammates. Every role and every champion does. So, since it's a given, me saying that other roles don't have to, means that they don't have to as much. But still that's ok, since that could just be an issue of clarity on my end. Fine. Thing is. It still holds true. I talked about "paying attention" generally at first, but then I specified that I mean that in terms of healing and shielding, and giving buffs, and when to do it, as Vars explained. No one is talking about enchanters needing to like keep track of health bars, in the general sense, because anyone would want to know if their teammates are healthy and able to continue fighting. We're talking about an even more attention to details such as HP. For HP specifically, for example, as an enchanter, you also need to compare. Which teammate needs the heal or shield more etc. It's not about looking at stuff specifically. It's about needing to interpret that information in ways that other roles don't have to, generally.
@@moopey1837 but as I said before your teammate are also doing the same thing just in a more offensive manner, or your teams tanks choosing when to use their hard cc to try save their adc or assassins. Like playing Galio for example the timing of when you use your w taunt into e knock up is so crucial to winning the fight. All champions need to time their abilities to a point where they’re most effective to win a fight and all players will be forced to make hard split second decisions that could win or lose a fight.
@@pearse2944 Yeah Galio is one of those exceptions, and tanks generally also have to pay attention in terms of peeling and stuff. That's fine. But what you're still missing, which is evident in the last sentence, is that while all roles need to make split second decisions in teamfights, enchanters USUALLY have to make split second decisions regarding the enemies AND their own team, often at the same time. I don't think a skrimisher, like Fiora for example, needs to pay much attention to how she can affect her teammates, outside of scaring the enemy away from them. And like I said, you are missing the fact that playing enchanters in often about comparing variables really quickly, regarding their teammates' situation. Once again, every role has to do that in order to be effective, but enchanters are required to do that but for their own team as well, AND in more intense ways. Like, let's talk about Fiora again, or any skirmisher. She will likely engage an easy target, or tank because of her true damage, will kill her target, or at least make them back off, and she will then look to start cleaning up enemies that are left on low HP because of her team. Now, if the teams are more evenly matched, she will likely need to bail someone out of a bad situation, by trying to kill their attacker, or by engaging their reinforcements, or at the very least making the attacker scared enough to back off. At the same time all this is happening, she will also need to keep track of her teammates' health bars and maybe some of their cooldowns. The Soraka of the team on the other hand, will start the fight focusing on her ADC, or the most powerful carry of her team, if the ADC is kinda weak, and will then try CC the enemies with her silence/root and slow, while micromanaging her W cooldown, so she doesn't accidentally let someone die. All the while, keeping track of health bars and cooldowns, just like Fiora. Thing is, while Fiora is making split second decisions on who to engage, when and even when to not engage and just help her team, the Soraka making split second decisions on when to heal someone and who to heal, while also making split second decisions on when and where to place her E, where and when to Q, when to ult and where to stand to be safe so she can keep doing all of that. So the way I described it, Fiora has to keep track of two things in the fight, healthbars and cooldowns, and need to make decisions on four things, who to engage, when to engage, if she actually needs to engage and if she needs to bail someone out. Soraka is also keeping track of healthbars, albeit much much MUCH more closely than Fiora, and is making decisions on nine other things, which I already listed. Now you could say that is a specific, biased example and is true for these two champions only. I'd say that this example can be applied to any other role and any other champion, with just slight variations. In the end, the enchanter will MOST LIKELY be making more decisions than other classes, on average.
@@moopey1837 Yes they have more things to do on the macro side, but every other champion in the game Will have to do all the macro things less intensively than the support, but on the micro level of the team fight everyone else (except maybe a tank) Will have to do It much more. And from my prespective, in a teamfight, intense macro and Low micro Is easier than intense micro and Low macro
Enchanters are relatively low skill floor (you really just need to learn what each ability does), but quite difficult to play good with, but can be the big carry of the game. As an enchanter main, it's always trying to keep everyone alive while making sure you are keeping yourself alive. It's a very hard balance (especially when assassins are meta) and when the enchanter dies, a lot of fights go down hill. I felt that a lot playing Lulu, (Janna and Karma have had less of a problem), but the you got instantly killed cause you are instantly targeted and it is quite sad and quite frustrating too.
In all honesty, we just wanna do our job ;-;
Stay strong soldier!
If no one will salute to you, i will now, thank you for supporting your teams!
Being an enchanter you need to have great macro, you decide if you need to roam, who to CC, heal or shield and where to position. You decide when and where many fights happen.
I refuse, Idc if I lose the game but Lulu's are not allowed to play. Hate the gremlin, nothing against the people behind the champ but I refuse to allow Lulu to live.
Honestly, tank Lulu is kinda op lol, the shield mythic (the name escapes me), into redemption, then Zeke's makes you tanky enough to survive burst but still gives you enough mana and cd to use your shields and abilities
Well unfortunately you cannot save everybody sometimes people just are too misspositioned to save so you need learn when people are already dead and you would just die too
It is weird how playing support in an MMO is seen as an amazing phenomenon, but in league you will get flamed for it.
yea playing sup is just slave work sometimes if you do good no one notices and if you do bad you get flamed "just heal lol 4head" and if you do good you maybe can get that one honor from adc who went 20/3/1 while you are 0/8/30
oh, this I can relate to. Braindead yuumi they said, as I perfectly timed my Mikaels on my mispositioned Zeri who is up against a 20/2 Renekton or the pink ward I placed on enemy jungle ON FOOT (bear in mind yuumi goes bootless), netting me so much vision score and preventing mid and my Zeri from being ganked successfully. Pretty much all of my games no jungler or midlaner was able to successfully gank me and my adc due to precise warding. It is so much easier with Zyra tho, but I really wanted to challenge myself and my decision making after the Yuumi rework.
As a Lulu main, I've definitely seen entire games get turned around by being at the right place at the right time, even if I gotta burn flash to do so. Turning the right person 'off' with poly or saving someone from certain death with shield/wild growth is *chefs kiss*
And yeah I think polymorph should be a skillshot but that's on Riot
Eyyy. A fellow Lulu main nice to meet ya. I love how drastic a change polymorph used in the place can make. A speed here, a disable there. And a fantastic zoning deterrent.
In Wild Rift you can place it in an area to zone
Fellow lulu mains unite! Poly has already been needed enough no more lol. Freakin wind wall blocks it completely 🤢
Aren't you the guy that duo's with Rav???
@@rubbleaandruin yup! usually playing lulu, yuumi, nami or morgana. Tho lately in season 13 we haven't played as much
When I started teaching my friend how to play LoL I made him play enchanters in the bot lane like Sona or Soraka with me as an adc so I could keep an eye on him. Because you don't need to farm, you need to learn positioning and learn decision making. Also how to control vision and kinda trading skills useful in all roles. You can learn csing in the practice tool also they're rather simple for how much they give so my friend never truly felt useless.
You have no idea how proud I was when he started calling dragon in good timings or roaming without me telling him to do anything. He learnt the game's tempo and feel and went on to learn other roles after.
I used to have friends new to league play support even as a support main for similar reasons, but I found that if they are an overly aggressive player (lie my assassin main friend who complains towers do too much damage literally every match because he is a greedy gremlin then complains they don't do enough when he gets dove) it backfires and just leads to frustration on both the teacher and the new player and can cause them to stop listening to you.
@@quickredf0x143 I mean if they are an aggresive player they can play supports aggressively. Teach them about harrasing the opponent well and their aggression will pay off. Later when they learn at least the basics of the game or at least how to control the champions decently they can go into engage supports. If they're aggressive and don't want to listen to you even if they're getting frustrated because they're playing too aggressively then they're just too stubborn to learn
Roaming is a tough one though. Least in my silver games, it feels as if there is a 95% constant, of one or more, of three things happening.
1. The other jungler is farming near bot constantly, so going alone means death.
2. My ADC needs constant supervision, or they'll instantly die to something.
3. The times roaming options are there, the mid have pushed straight into the other teams tower/are dead.
Sometimes, life as a support feels a lot less like being the teams helper, and more like finding the least dumb person, and pray they will make use of you proper.
Overgeneralizing, of course. A lot more variety in it than that.
You should never recommend a new player to go support. it's best to go mid or toplane to fully learn the game first.
@@LessFluff Yeah gotta disagree with that hard. Top and mid are about good trading, csing and understanding yours and the enemy champion. Now imagine someone new to MoBAs going there. Oh wait you don't have to because I had the same argument with my friend. Wanted to go top because Mordekaiser looks cool. Ok. I guide him through the basics of his match-ups in champ select and loading screen. Every game went at least 0/8 and felt useless for the entire match because he didn't get trading at first, didn't know how to cs well and definitely didn't know how to play vs any top laner or avoid ganks. You need to learn the basics first not jump into calculus without knowing how to multiply.
Btw good to know you think SOLO lanes are "fully learning the game" in a TEAM game
i think the thing about Enchanters was pretty much explained in the video- Enchanters themselves are fairly simple and straightforward, the champions typically do not require much mechanical knowledge, but what they require is game knowledge.
You don't need to be good at the champion, you just need to be good at the game, these two things being vastly different in my opinion. As you can be good at a champion, but bad at the game itself, and vice versa.
One thing I've always enjoyed about enchanters is that they're mechanically simple (most of them are "unga bunga buttons to protecc") and thus relieving pressure from having to play them right on that end, but hard in game sense and knowledge that will heavily punish you if you screw up even once.
Been playing Sona a lot more recently because I'm hyped about SG Sona, and it feels like if I'm not at the right place at the right time the game gets out of control because my dumbass ADC tried to 1v2 and got jumped by a Rengo. God forbid I happen to ward or facecheck into said Rengo trying to set up for dragon/Baron because my screen loses all color and I have to watch my team last half as long during a teamfight!
3:39 This first point can go both ways. An enchanter creates that agency by allowing for what would have been a mistake to be a valid but risky play. That players almost never take conscious use of it and just see it as 'oh so lucky you have braindead enchanter to save you' is the problem.
Oh man my main role finally touched. The hardest part of the job is assesing outcomes, a single buff could be potentially used in 5 of your allies, you cannot just use it because you have to check if your position is ok and if it's worth buffing and ally instead of another. That's in teamfights, in lane we are pretty much in charge of the pressure since most carries have to defend until the first back or don't have cc.
Personally I play soraka the most, so I constantly get more focus than my adc. My E could be far worse than a lulu's w in a TF, but lulu's w is far harder to use, 10 potential targets and sometimes what matters the most is when to use it more than who. Of course it would be great to transform the zed as soon as he poops up from his ult right? Now try to do it while being dove by the jungler as well and the frontline fighting, sounds terrible but that's just a typical scenario for a support to handle.
We cannot rely on mechanics, we rely on planning, was outcome and reward the best or maybe there was a better solution for my actions?
Edit post video: I loved the video, it's amazing that I keep learning things from this role even in a video like this
What ever the decision is, someome will cry in the team chat
jokes on you I'm a main renata and I can just shield everyone at the same time
@@SamElZombie lmao
@@SamElZombie Renata Glasc/Karma gang rise up.
EDIT: I value my life.
All the comments are entire essays and i don't get it. It's not completely brainless, nothing in league is, but soraka and other enchanter have such a low skill floor it doesn't matter the ceiling. You can be incredibly effective while being a much worse player then anyone around you, since they have by desing some of the strongest spells in the game that are also usually point and click
Say whatever you want. It's harder to use Janna Q well than Yone entire kit. At least I'm my own experience
yea sometimes other characters the kit plays itself more than you like if you play akshan like the kit has so much shit and you might proc so much stuff that you dont even know or smth and just win fights cuz u have press thw attack and ur passive carry and if you play sup you miss one ability you can lose a fight
I love these videos because you can see who actually plays support and who doesn't. Though for the people against it what do they want more mage supports or do they only want tank supports that they never follow in
My fav class tbh, since I started playing league I've been so into mages, specially enchanters like sona, lulu and more
When your team is ahead, there is nothing more fun to be than a Enchanter support, but when your team is behind, there is nothing worse...
As a main enchanter player I agree. It's amazing how we can help turn the tables in a teamfight but its a really frustrating to know that, if your teammates are trash, there is almost nothing you can do to help them. (especially this season)
that's true for any role. As soon as one guy plays awful in my games it's basically doomed.
@@LessFluff its really not the same at all. If you're any other role, you can still get kills, farm, gank... An offensive champion can carry by themselves. An enchanter will never carry by themselves. It's a case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink"
I love playing enchanters because I feel like a general or a tactician. I feel like I can "control" my team, sometimes, just based on the buffs I give them. If I give a shield or an offensive buff to a diver, they'll dive. I can heal someone away from death. I may even cc a target and lead my entire team to pounce on them as if controlling them with a button press. SOMETIMES. Other times, no matter which buffs, heals, shields, or CC's I throw, bad players will not take advantage of the situation and run, or ignore the adc I just stunned for a whole second and go all in on the enemy tank who just dived into us.
Enchanters are penalized harder than everyone else for bad teammates, because their entire role is to improve their teammates. If you have an uncooperative - or flat out bad - adc and you buff them, it's no different than giving an ability damage boost to a champion that is silenced, or an attack speed boost to a champ that is disarmed
the only thing it takes to master an enchanter is patience with people i imagine enchanters as the people who work in retail who have to deal with bs scenerios on the daily
A a support main, I declare this video a certified hood classic.
The only enchanter I will always hate and ridicule is yummi.
For me one of the most important parts of learning enchanters is positioning, Yummi just doesn't have to do it and you just can't counter her if you get to the late game, you can talk all you want about her pasive and having to move from one player onto another but you just don't have to do all that to make one player almost unkillable in late game with nothing to do about it.
Sona and soraka heal more yeah, but you can oneshot them, Nami has more cc but if she misses her buble she is as good as dead to an assasin, Yummi just needs to stay on top of her strongest teamate.
That's why I play yuumi against enemy "carry" sp
Yuumi is literally destroying the point of being a support.
yea hardest part is to get teammate who can play with yuumi cuz i play support a lot but time to time when i play adc i hate yuumi cuz i dont know how to play with yuumi if i do poorly i get left to 1v2 while yuumi is riding with like kayn around the map
@@v1nceifhewenttothesun682 she is not a sp
She is just an item
honestly yea. I tried Yuumi out before and I loved the difficulty of managing when to pop out in teamfights for shield, when to dash back and forth; it felt really expressive and I had to know the enemy cooldowns just like a regular support. And then I realized I could not pop out and just stay on a single champ for the entire game :))) Took the fun away.
I feel like enchanters are often overlooked, as their impact on the game isn’t directly seen. If a mid laner goes 20/4 it’s a lot more commendable than an enchanter who is 1/1/25. I’ve picked up on this where if I’m playing soraka or another enchanter and I’m just following around a carry, they can get huge kill streaks without dying. However the carry thinks that they are actually 1v5ing, so if they go into a fight without me they instantly die. They don’t realize it’s the support enabling them to carry games.
If you are doing really good as an enchanter, you don’t get a pat on the back or anything, but if you are okay, people will just say you are useless. This happens all too often, but to me the rewards outweigh the benefits.
Ive seen this alot too. Like people leaving their yummi behind and try ant 1v5 then instantly die
Am i the only one who's impressed with Vars speech delivery, like not once did I ever lose my interest in any of his videos
Enchanters are like art. Realistically, any idiot can grab a pencil and make lines on some paper. But we all know what truly amazing art looks like and how even though in the end it's all just lines and colours, you know it's not a "it's nothing special" type of thing.
There is a rule that I kind of live by as a Jungler main when choosing how to path early game.
That rule is: Bot lane is decided by the supports.
Early on, the supports generally decide how well the lane does less so than the ADC. So if I see that my team has a really weak early game support, but a super strong early game ADC, I'll still likely path away if the opposing team has a strong early support and a very weak early game adc.
Ofc I play kayn so sometimes I will path to bot anyways because getting my correct form is a heavy factor as well, but when I flex to other JGs like Teemo, Nunu, Voli, Etc... The initial path I take is generally always decided by what supports my team has vs the support their team has.
Now, with this being said, I'd like to go over the points you made in favor of enchanters:
1. This isn't a good metric of "are they hard to play." If this was a "are they hard to climb with" video, then I would completely agree. They are stupid hard to climb with because they rely on their team, but just because they're hard to climb with, doesn't mean their hard to play. This is a crutch for most supports in pretty much every game.
I mean, look at overwatch. Sure Zen can carry, but if he gets dived he's fucked, so he has to rely on his team to peel for him (unless you're a zen with god aim, but I think you get my point) . Being easy to play != Easy to win with.
2. Every single role has to do this. I'm a kayn player, so lets look at the choices I have to make:
Who do I go for? When do I peel for my allies as red kayn, and when do I decide to go full in as the tank? Should I stay in the back and make sure my support/adc stays perfectly safe, or should I try to make plays of my own?
As blue kayn, who do I attempt to one shot? When should I attempt to go for a one shot? What path do I have to take to ensure I get the one shot on my target without dying before I get the kill?
The fact that supports have to make split second decisions isn't really a good point to make because... Well... Every single role in the game has to do this too.
3. This point is the only one that I agree with.
My overall view on this is:
They're easy to learn, but hard to master. Overall, enchanters are easier to learn at a base level when compared to the other roles in the game. You first time Jungling? Good fucking luck! You need to learn how to path, when to change your path, keeping track of your jungle timers, you also need to know wave management for when a teammate dies and you have to go collect their wave, or even just hold their wave for them so they don't get fucked. You're a first time assassin? You have to learn your combos, which takes mechanical skill, and you have to learn your limits, especially with the durability update. You playing an ADC? Wave management is huge, you need to learn target prio, how to kite well. Sure supports have to learn how to do this as well, but there is more pressure on you than the supports, because if you fuck up, that's potentially a completely lost lane, if the support fucks up, it hurts for sure but isn't as impactful as an ADC fucking up.
However, like every single role in this game, they're hard to master. Learning good vision control, and how to survive when setting up that vision. Timing your abilities in fights, when to roam and leave your ADC, etc... I personally agree with your end point that enchanter players do deserve more respect (the good ones at least, the ones who actually have learned how to play enchanters to their full potential), but I fell that as a class overall, they are easier. But just because they're "easier" doesn't mean they're "easy."
As a bard main, i thank you for the recognition
So I watched the video first, but I already know the answer to this question: It depends on the team. A good team will make an enchanter's life really easy, just ward and keep the carry alive (Like Yuumi always does), if the team is bad or both teams are playing almost equally, that's when it goes from piss-easy to very hard, especially in low elo, you gotta keep your team alive, while also giving vision and keeping yourself alive. Depending on team comp, you could either stay back and do your job or be targeted constantly because you're the difference between a teamfight won or lost.
Also, enchanters are a good class, but they're so good at their job that only a few items (mostly actives) are worth for them, just look at the stats you usually want on them: Mana regen and cd reduction. As a result, most of their items SUCK, and any enchanter that depends on specific items will suffer with any change to them, remember the ardent censer meta? I don't think anyone will forget that one. I think it is a big contrast with ADcarries, talking about marksmen specifically, if their best items are nerfed, they will feel that nerf, and any buff will be a thousand times better for champs like Yi, Yasuo, Yone or Tryndamere.
I think most enchanters are easy to pick up in a few matches but need immaculate game knowledge and investment to play well. Sona is a great example for this. Very simple kit, but large mana issues and need good positioning since she needs to be near allies and far from enemy fire
don't forget sona passive, everyone always forget that she has that and always thinks it's just more damage, but that's only the blue part, the green is a mini-exaust and purple is a slow
@@doomkingraye7692 yeah, when you are trying to kill someone is much more useful for the team to use purple than blue, blue is mostly useful for poke and tower taking
@@nechocat1234 sometimes the green is more useful if they're fighting back instead of running away
don't you forget that mana management and positioning are general game mechanics and not exclusive to enchanters
Oh, my champ can't spam buttons without consequences, so hard
nothing feels better being appreciated as a enchanter during game
I really like to draw a comparison to Overwatch for the discussion surrounding Enchanters: In Overwatch, every Support Hero is, de facto, a DPS that also can heal, with the glaring exception of Mercy. Mercy is one of the hardest characters to really get into, since she requires a whole new approach to the game, where perfecting awareness and positioning are mandatory to find success.
Same goes for Enchanters in League. They are the only class in the game that don't try to win by killing their enemies (Renata being the exception), they try to win by amplifying the stats and strengths of their allies. Their complete lack of combat pressure means that they need to be hyperfocussed on staying away from enemies, since getting too close means that they simply get blown up. At the same time, target selection is another key skill for Enchanters. Knowing when to buff, who to shield/heal, when to utilize their peel, is crucial to understand, since they can't really stat-check opponents.
>mercy
>hard to play
Pick one
@@MrCooljeppe Have you even read my comment? Mercy is far from easy, considering that she has a big target on her back while having the lowest combat pressure. Keeping yourself safe while continuously providing value is the name of the game, one that only Mercy has to play since every other hero can duel their way out.
Same applies to Enchanters, BTW.
@@lovesmez2945 m1 so hard
@@lovesmez2945 she can fucking fly LMFAO
I used to play overwaytch and sometimes picked mercy
it's hella difficult to aim with that pistol but the damage output is fairly strong tbh
As a support main here is my opinion: if you know to use your abilities on and when you WILL carry. But on the other hand if your teammate doesn't know how to take advantage of all the things you're handing them or they're just so bad that no matter what they do they die anyway, then you're useless. Overall though it comes down to how good you are but sometimes you get those teammates.
I respect a good Karma, Nami and pre-rework Janna. But the others are too rewarding for how low risk they are. Their job is to either be a stat battery or to make sure interactions such as trying to poke a Soraka or all-in a Morgana pointless.
Also, because of Riot directly interfeering whenever enchanters trickle down to other roles and exclusively design them to synergyze with a single class (exception being Nami), they can feel very redundant.
Yep
Morgana is a catcher NOT an enchanter
@@screechingtoad2683 Morgana has a shield a root a cc ultimate and some form of directed damage ability. She is an enchanter, just one that can function as a control mage.
@@Vladumere Kayle can heal allies, is she an enchanter? Tham kench can shield allies, i guess he's an enchanter too. Thresh can shield allies, he's an enchanter by your logic
@@Vladumere you just disproved your own point. She has only one ability that interacts with allies so clearly she is not an enchanter. Enchanters buff shield and heal their allies. She is a catcher. Her abilities serve to lock down enemies not enhance her allies
This video is a very good way to describe enchanters. Too often are we undervalued or flat out ignored for our role in a fight. Everyone praises the adc that just got a pentakill, but nobody acknowledges the work the support just put in to make sure that happened.
As a Zilean one trick I enable carry champs. I can make a good adc great, but no matter what I do, I can't make a bad adc good. I can only give them the tools, they still have to use them. Even if it means leaving lane to enable someone more fit to carry than the adc if they are underperforming.
End of the story though, enchanters aren't difficult to play, but like you put very well, it's the value you bring and the split second decisions that can make or break a game.
One thing that struck me in this video is that vars compares karma's shield to effectively granting an amount of gold to a champion... but if that's the case, don't we have to comparitively do the same for everything else? How much gold is one of Leona's CC's worth? How much is Shaco's clone worth? Kha'zix's isolation passive? Tristana's E?
It's a good argument, but unless we know how much gold everyone else's abilities would be by comparison, it rings somewhat hollow.
Yeah, that argument was so out of place, I did not even get what he was trying to say exactly.
The babysitter class
i hate it when people say that enchanters are easy. There is an LS clip right, (I know he is devisive) where some guy complains that playing enchanters sucks. They said it's difficult to ward since assassins just kill you. LS said that's the point, the tough champions are these ones because you need to know where and when you can enter a certain area. There is no such thing as an *easy* champion. Every champion has a required skill, if you argued certain champions are better in certain elo's, sure. I think actually Naut, Rell, Leona, Blitz, Pyke and Pantheon are better in low elo because you hook and win. Does that mean this are braindead unga boonga champs, No of course not, people start to dodge your stuff so now you need to learn to consistently land your hooks. Eventually you will reach a skill level where people position properly and without the ability ot engage on to the right targets you become instanly a walking bag of gold. In higher elos I would say enchanters are better because the only way you could make engage supports good is if it's duo or Yasuo (although I see even in high elo players still get caught). Enchanters on the other hand need some level of deep thought, you can't really force anything. So you simply have to follow your teams plays and actually stand in the right place or risk dying. Yuumi for example. no matter how much people think Yuumi is this OP champion she is only as good if the person she is attached too is good. Essentially a win hard or lose hard chamion, no inbetween.
The best way to describe enchanters is that they are the mommies of solo que, constantly being safe cautious and loving to the entire lobby with healing, utility and vision. Engagers are the daddys, going out there and winning the game for the family. Yes Adcs are the kids, Midlaners are the first born and toplaners are that middle child no one cares about.
It's also worth noting that the first counter is not a good one as taking into account the ressources of other players is also a skill not necessarily one linked to the enchanter but one none the less.
As an example of when a player was not aware was I was supporting a renecton who was fairly Fed with soraka essentially filling his life bar faster than the enemy could deplete it making him a full raid boss, but he didn't realize that so he turned away killing me and someone else in the process.
When I’m an enchanter, I’m there to protect, but I’m also willing to flash in front of the enemy to Janna ult them back to my team, to prevent them escaping under tower. Enchanters may be squishy and low damage, but don’t discount the cc and utility
that's why if you know how to properly play them enchanters can be so strong in soloq. I got grandmaster playing Sona and Soraka and i always felt in control of erasing the mistakes of my teammates and capitalizing on that. Whereas a engage tank needs to fight a one tempo fight AND WIN but because soloq is disorganized this is where enchanters thrive.
„You won’t go *oh shit!*. What’s Nami gonna do?” I remember 3 enemies running for their life when I went full ap nami mid and went 19/3. Happened once but boy was it satisfying
I feel like this ignores that the fact that a lot of people disrespect enchanters is just sexism. League players disproportionately despise anything feminine in this game to an extraordinary degree, and most enchanters are girly and feminine. People who will trash a Lulu or a Janna vitriolic ally will rarely have nothing too negative to say about a Taric, and if they do it is generally more respectful.
The funny thing about enchanters and supports in general is that everyone is dependent on your plays. The problem here is every player thinks that a support is an enchanter and expects you to buff them in all places and see the map always. As someone who adjusts like playing ap supports to balance a full ad team. They think a zyra lux and xerath would shield and tank everything for you. It’s just annoying as a support that their misplacement and overextending moves in a team fight is your fault for not saving them.
I don't get it, how does he upload such incredible videos EVERY WEEK?
People who say enchanters are brain dead are why we have champions like irelia, yasuo, akshan, and zeri
Or junglers that require more skill to pull them off
You fuck up once ur dead instantly, their abilities do tend to be simple tho
Simple but time sensitive though
I only play renata and I gotta say her w on certain champs like Master Yi, Rengar, Bel'Veth is bit much sometimes. Kinda like how nami buff on someone like Lucien is a bit much. The hardest part about enchanter is just positioning since theyre pretty immobile and decision making with your big abilities.
yea and for champs like lulu yea they are point and click abilities but in team fights it is sometimes so hard to get spells to right person when they have double effect that you can use to your teammates or enemys and nowdays everyone has so much mobility that enchanters cant always keep up with the tempo
The fun thing about Renata is being low elo and ulting the enemy fed Yasuo to kill his own team and then proceed to sacrifice your own team to kill him
I seriously need to give Vars a taste of battle Yummi with Stormrazor first item.
You play normal support but thanks to Stormrazor's zap you get additional point and click slow ability, additionally because you got some "solo" items you can divert pressure from your ADC by body blocking skill shots and delivering crucial basic attack damage during lane skirmish
At one time I was really good with Zilean Support. One time I hard carried a team as Zilean Mid Carry using a support build. While I was alone in lane my Ka'zix camped nearby getting plenty of kills. I event got a 2x kill on a LeBlanc and her jungler under her own tower.
People sleep on champions going support builds in solo lanes. Korea don't though as that is a more team focus region
@@JohnnyYeTaecanUktena keep in mind I did this back in season 8 or 9 after I saw a pro player give tips on Zil mid.
Not to mention which enemy to debuff and how
Sona, per example. You have 3 options on your passive: extra damage, damage debuff or slow. Each of them can make a huge difference
I think every question in League can be answered with, "Everything has its own skills and everything depends on context."
That being said, of all enchanters, I despise Yuumi the most. Players literally can "play" her afk. You can't do that with literally any other champion. All other supports and enchanters, A+ I love a good one.
Fountain karthus
Honestly, that mindset within the playerbase is kind of the problem. People who don't play Yuumi they think they can just afk on someone, occasionally press E, and call it a day, so they pick her because they're in a 'Netflix and League' mood and don't really want to try too hard. But if that's how you're playing Yuumi, you're doing it wrong (not you personally, just a general you). I'm not gonna pretend like she requires big-brained mechanical skill, but she definitely has important decisions to make just like any other champion, and the player's skill can be the difference between winning and losing a game (yes, you can actively be 'good' or 'bad' at her!). It's not just 'sit on ADC and press E lol.'
Yea I may dislike Lulu but Yuumi definitely takes the cake for the only enchanter I actively despise seeing on either team. How did Riot manage to make a champ so easy and low risk that you can play them with your feet? I really don't get it.
Thanks for speaking up for enchanters. They are definitely the most under appreciated roles/class in league of legends as people would just boss them around, tell them to follow around and never take credit for anything(kills, minions). Skill-wise enchanters are a bit simpler but it's definitely hard to not tilt in the game when you don't get respected for your job. IMO the hardest part of playing enchanters would be to manage your emotions to stay calm :,(
Most enchanter's kits are not stupid hard, but not tilting while being screamed at by my 0/4 adc who gave up two kills before 5 minutes is some max level difficulty.
Why are Milio's AP ratios such garbage? As a support, hes never gonna reach more than 200 AP anyways, his W, E and R should all have TWICE the scaling. There is literally no point in building AP-ish support items, and his shields / heals are literally worthless post 20 min... MIght as well just build tanky items + Redemption, which defeats the whole purpose of a champ who specializes in heals / shields...
Why are enchanters doomed to be garbage every time? Meanwhile, tank support is still going to do more damage and be more tanky, and have more CC thats relevant all game long.
No matter how hard you try to argue about Enchanters they'll be always the easiest class to play (Their skillfloor is really low).
Also points in favor of Enchanters don't seem that convincing.
1st point - They don't. If Janna starts roaming, then she puts as much pressure as Jungler (Her ganks are ironically much stronger than Jungle ganks).
2nd point - Any class requies quick decision making, not just Enchanters.
3rd point - Assuming you can play Support role it shouldn't be that hard. If Leona facechecks it will end the same way as if Lulu facechecked - They'll both die.
Only argument I can agree with is that you have to have good Macro to play them. But then again that's all you ACTUALLY have to learn to play them.
People who say enchanters are hard/skillfull are only people who EXCLUSIVELY play enchanter supports.
I can make a list of reasons why they're the easiest class in the game, so I will:
1. No enchanters are mechanically hard in any way, their crucial abilities are always point-n-click. A Nami that cant land her bubbles still has value, a Morgana/Blitz who cant land roots/hooks are worthless.
2. Unlike engage supports(2nd easiest class) you dont have accelerate the game, make plays or be expected to move around the map, you're more than fine just existing in a slow paced game because enchanters have cheap items and inherently scale well.
3. It leans up of n. 2, but you dont have to play proactively, you can always just play "losers-game" and wait for you enemy to make mistakes.
4. This is general for the support role, but you not having to care about getting gold/exp for yourself basically takes away an entire stress factor that every other role has to play around. It takes a lot of macro to find the most ideal way to move around the map to gain resources for yourself, it changes from game to game, what sidelane matchups you can win, where the enemy team could be on the map, how to gain tempo on opposing sidelaner. Supports have a much more simple macro, be around where you expect a play to be made and put wards where you feel having vision would be nice.
The key points listed as to why enchanters take skill are not really strong points. Having to give resources to your teammates can be done by any other role. An Ashe ADC that shoots an arrow towards midlane essentially donates some of her pressure in botlane towards her midlaner, likewise mid/top/jungle also are expected to impact other lanes, but they have to weight it much more because everything put towards their other lanes are tempo they take away from their own 1v1 matchup.
Micromanaging your tools in teamfights is something EVERY SINGLE CHAMP does, like what good does a Leona engage do if her backline is getting bursted by a bruiser/assassin, especially because its harder to switch target/focus once you're commiting yourself to another play.
Accomplishing support tasks is not significantly harder as an enchanter, as many enchanters have many powerfull "nope" tools. Unless your champ is very mobile you cant really run down a Lulu/Karma/Janna for example, she has a slow, a shield, movespeed buff, long duration cc and they all have even bigger "nope" in their ults.
I still stand by my opinion that enchanters take no skill. Because I've been auto filled support quite a few times and played a few. It's not hard at all to support, and the only thing I sucked at was ward score. Now a class that deserves praise more than enchanters are juggernauts. I dare someone to challenge me on this. As a juggernaut you have to not only just frontline, but live long enough to be useful in the team fight dancing in and out of combat. All this while the enemy team primarily throws all the cc at you, you're slower than every single champ, and if you didn't itemize effectively you get blown to bits. This is why when I see a Darius get a penta, I don't even care if I'm the adc. I am the Darius' support now.
Entchanters dont get enough credit, since their plays aren't that flashy. When your midlaner get a quadra kill while surviving at low health, everyone praises him.
While you as an entchanter stand right next to him and think to yourself: "I just dumped 1k health worth of healing/shielding into you, where is my praise?"
Its so hard to play an entchanter in a way where other people notice you being the teamcarry.
I have this argument...
Overall they are easy to play... Think about it... Imagine a lulu in a game.. do nothing but stand behind adc/ any carry...and just spam shield ult and other shite... Like they don't even have to ward... And they would still be more effective then many other picks out there...
So yes... Conclusion... Easy to Play... They deserve to get shit on
I tried to play Sona when all I play is Jungle. Let’s just say that I got reported that game. Enchanters got my vote, I am NOT a good support main lol
yea if you do good no one notices and if you do poorly you get rep thats how it is i am bronze noob and sup main so i feel you but you are so brave that you play jungle i have so much respect for jungle mains
@@VideoGamerMan74 I'm not a jungle main, I'm a fill main
@@Kilesfactor that is also true but sup and jg mains have that going for them that no one wants to play sup or most people dont want
@@VideoGamerMan74 in that case, don't play the game lol
There's more roles than just mid, just top, just inting.
lowest flooring, but some what higher end ceiling.
However the requirements are even higher than its co-op partner adc in mid-low elos,
adc does not need to trade, deep ward, rotate and help secure skuttle, help early dragon, roam, knowing when to engage or disengage, supports do much much more than adcs in mid-low mmrs.
"All you have to do as an top laner is pray you dont get camped." That hits too hard man
Before I played league, I played vainglory. In that game, the game styles are much different (despite being a moba) due to being 3v3 (laner, jungler, 1 single support). The support in the comp would always be tanky and have agency in fights, whether or not they were an enchanter/mage type supports (lorelai, lyra, and adagio). This still carried through when it moved to 5v5, so I thought enchanters would be self sustaining as well. But in league it feels like enchanters are give all but receive nothing (while also being blamed but never thanked lmao). It would be nice if league enchanters were able to sustain/defend themselves by at least a fraction of the same way they sustain/defend teammates.
10:21 I made this exact argument on a previous video but with soraka's entire kit and different murder monkeys. I feel vindicated. I'm not looking forward to every comment's replies dissolving into rage induced word vomit.
I play Draven and do not enjoy playing Lulu. The former is intuitive, the latter is an enigma. I think it's the difference between reactive and proactive gameplay. As a baseline. One style involves making a play and going in, the other involves waiting for someone else to make a play or enabling someone to make a play and then reacting to that change in gamestate.
Enchanters (barring Zilean) are going to appeal less to people who just want to blow stuff up, and vice versa.
it's so amazingly fullfilling to save some in the game and actually admit you did save them :)
and it's soo annoying where you have to spend resources to save 3 different people only to decide to go back into a fight with 20% health and blame you for not shielding them :P
i personally have been playing Enchanter ever since i started League... Janna , Sona and Lulu were always my primary picks and i always felt like the games i played were either we won and all the credit were to the carry
we lost and all the blame went to the support and jungle
in the games we win you are never aknowledged
and in the games you lose you feel like there was nothing you can do to turn the tides!
When I ADC I always make sure to give enchanters some love, I used to play alot of twitch so seeing lulu always makes me happy.
@@vargusdread9519 glad there are people like you out there
your kind is limied in league tho xD
I mean, your first point saying eliminates teammates mistakes has nothing to do with how easy or hard the role is. It is something that the role does. Whether the argument of how op the role is fair enough, but not the skill to play them
the main problem with enchanters is how our monkey brain works
you can carry a game with an engage supporter more easily by getting picks, monkey sees stunned enemy, monkey jumps on it
carrying with enchanters is different, most abilities only come when they are needed, so you have to trust your team and your team has to trust in you
this is the same reason why they look easy, the buttons either are pressed on time, which is what every other class does, or it isn't, and you get flamed (or you press buttons and still get flamed because teammate 1# didn't recieve the ability when they were expecting to)
I think you guys forgot the ardent censer with kogmaw back then where it was absolute shit fighting against enchanters with an almost unkillable adc
People call support the easiest role then proceed to get autofilled and int on Nautilus because they don’t understand you can’t just hook every person you see
This was like a "trading 212" adverisment
I love seeing enchanters get the credit they deserve, it's basically the only role in the game where, during a 5v5, they have to actually divide a lot of their focus between all the 10 players, yes all classes have to pay attention to their surroundings but not as much as enchanter, if you're an assassin you focus on the enemy backline and everyone that can disrupt you (so, you+2-3 champions=3-4 champions), if you're an ADC you have to focus on your positioning (including possible flanks) and your surroundings, so everything outside of your range you can usually deal with just after you've dealt with what is in your range (so you+possible flank+enemy frontline~4-5 champions), and the list goes on.
Not that these classes are inferior, easy or anything like that, there are other difficulties in performing well as ADC, assassins, etc, I personally love playing both Akali, enchanters (and every class for that matter), they all have their own difficulties to perform well, the thing about enchanters is simply because they are very easy to learn in a very basic level (champs like Akali and Qiyana are super hard to perform even half descent because you have to practice their combos very quickly and all), but to actually do a very good job on an enchanter it's super hard, and Yuumi is the proof of that, if you just sit onto your Aatrox/Yasuo the whole game pressing R and E in descent timings, that's it, already making a difference in the game if the Yasuo knows what it's doing, but to make a huge difference the Yuumi needs to know when (and have the reflexes) to use Mikael's, when/how to jump off and recharge their mana safely, what to build, etc.
I don't really play enchanter supports but I can say that it is very easy to tell when then opposing enchanter support is good or bad. Many people say it is a "low skill floor, high skill ceiling" class but in laning phase trying to understand how to make an impact as an enchanter is very difficult, I would probably say that even the skill floor is pretty high.
A lot of people think playing an enchanter is an excuse to play passively, but the ones that are aggressive at the right times are the best to play with hands down. Also enchanters are an easy fallback for people who get auto filled which probably skews the perception of them.
When I play adc I feel like having a lulu, soraka or janna is a coinflip. I either get that support that defends me as if I were The control ward in the bot middle bush or the other kind of support that is just behind me, not poking at all thus being behind us 3 other laners in gold and then when we get into a fight just hits 2/3 buttons and calls it a day....at most.
@@kfk4441 i agree i am sup main and sometimes i play too passively cuz i dont know how my adc wants to play like i do poke enemys if i can but same time i try to save mana just in case because i want to save the adc still and like with soraka i need to have also hp to heal my adc
One of my favorite analogies about enchanters is that it’s kind of like 1+1=2, each respective 1 being the lane pressure and basically everything that the champion provides to the fight. What makes enchanters look brainless is that a lot of the times, some smurfing ADC or god tier ADC can basically be worth 1.5/2, so all the enchanter has to do is provide like, 0.5. But a good enchanter can be worth more than 1, they can carry their ADC or stomp lane or carry their team. I think a prevalent problem with frustrating enchanter players are that they provide no lane pressure and don’t play too aggressively, like a Soraka who doesn’t auto attack or go for Q and just sits under tower pressing w sometimes. They can heal and save teammates later in the game, but they play lane really badly. It’s not too hard to save your teammates in a team fight as an enchanter, but there is some nuance to what they can do early and mid. Like vs lanes with little CC, Yuumi actually has really good kill pressure.
The only reason I play enchantress is for the one momment I give my the opportunity to shine knowing I was the one who allowed it, giving me the endorsement and saying that I was a great support
Supports in general, but especially enchanters have to constantly micromanage 9 other people in every game, while also looking out for themselves, and try not to get any credit or they'll get called trolls for e.g. "stealing kills"
Super tired of lol, the mobility creep, early game focus. I don’t feel like league anymore.
Enchanters dont pose any threat by themselves
The 3-0 karma with ignite in my jungle 🙃
Super awesome video as someone who mains enchanters, I always feel like you can see the difference. But also sometimes I do feel like I still did nothing especially if I have a run away top who by the time I go help them is like 10 and 0 lol. Also when they do that they screw with my grade since assists are part of it. Lolz
The difference between a silver enchanter vs a D4 enchanter is about the same as a gold to low plat assassin
12:48 Well I'm pretty sure that's how it works top lane, it's quite the apt description really.
I really like to watch this video further but you said Yuumi and skill in one sentance.
Imo, it can be easy to play enchanter if you duo with someone who is good. But that feels like... meh. Thus why I strictly play solo. One thing I think is important part of "skill" is becoming good with roaming (this comes together with wave management and timer for everything, map awareness - in a bundle). It makes a great difference vs support who is bot and follows their premade adc whenever they go.
If enchanters can play 100% reactively and don't have to make a good decision about who to protect and which enemies to play around, then they feel like they are broken and remove counterplay. But if damage and burst in the game is high and enchanters can be punished and have to be careful of how close they can step than they are balanced. The meta needs to find a balance between when an engage support can be braindead engage without any care and cc for years and enchanters literally face tanking engage and overextending and not getting punished. Also having long cd's to punish windows for important enchanter abilities is important
As an adc player the whole game plan is shoot anything that moves
as a sup main i can confirm it is that and i need usually to babysit my adc like morg kit is so good i need to stop the bad guys with Q and W is just little area and E is nono dont touch my adc
As an enchanter: We are either powerhouses, or utter useless. Depends on the team.
As a Orianna main who plays her mid and support i can say that if i want to ragequit game and sweat all day i go mid. When i go support orianna i can do literally everything wrong and still manage to win bcs of funny aery moonstone interaction and after durability patch everyone is laking dmg to do something. Before durability it was harder, now its super easy.
As a enchanter main myself I think that playing the champions itself is not that hard, the hard part is how to react and position yourself in teamfights. For example, at lvl 1 as karma vs an alistar your goal is to be super annoying because the alistar cannot engage on you but then at lvl 2 keep your distance.
Warding too, wards are super important, it doesnt matter if they gave vision or not, because if no enemy was spotted that means THEY ARE NOT THERE, so they could be anywhere else.
But yeah its annoying when I play normals as another class and I get flammed for only playing "brainded supports" to claim on ranked :/
"All you have to do as a top laner is pray you don't get camped" . Ahh there's the top lane main pain shining through.