Another skinning issue that i felt needed mentioning is that any change you make to the environment of one skin(placement of score, pp, hp bar etc) only stays in that skin. And there's no way to copy those changes onto a different skins. This is why i have only played lazer with one of my skins, even though there are maps where I reckon I'd enjoy other skins
what others have said and you can also ctrl-a to select all the elements and do them all at once. its quite fast once you get used to it and works well if you only use like single digit nunber of skins. i do agree that there needs to be some way to do it where you can just like "apply to all" because some people have huge skin folders and they like to use all of the skins every now and then.
The only thing I miss as a mania player is easily messing with skin.ini and overall the skin assets files, I would love to at least get these types of changes implemented in lazer UI
@@exelence2679 did they really? who confirmed? if it does get ranked, it definitely will be a problem lol should only ever be for personal customisation and practice
13:35 - just to clarify, you *can* change elements by dragging images with the correct names into the client. i went and tested to be sure - you have to delete the sprite it creates, then switch to another skin and back. the ctrl+alt+shift+s skin reload hotkey from stable doesn't seem to exist here. it's pretty clunky at the moment. i haven't seen many skinners talking about lazer, in part because i don't hang around in skinning discords or anything like that, but i'm one of those players who spends most of their time in the game making original skins; everything related to skinning is 100% the biggest question mark over lazer for me right now. it's understandably hard to comment on what could be better because, as was mentioned in the video, things are subject to change quite soon - i'm also just not really sure what the planned end goal is for it, since most of stable's skinnable UI elements like pause/fail and results aren't (yet?) here. a lot of the current stable skinning jank is going to be replaced with the ability to place sprites wherever, and no longer having weird hacks with selection-mode and the like causing aspect ratio dependent skins is a good thing overall. my biggest hope for lazer for the longest time had honestly just been that the missing few pieces in stable skinning like custom selection-tab or menu-button-background tint colors would be made available, assuming we'd get legacy UI. skinners will know that there ways around this but i've always preferred to make skins that support all aspect ratios, so having these last few things available would be such a game changer. the recent addition of skinnable songselect-top and songselect-bottom to stable was already pretty huge. as far as ease of use goes, i really do think we need something closer to the skin folders in stable. i'm not convinced something like the editor's external edit button will be the way to go here. the way any stable player can go into the skins folder and just mix elements freely with very little technical knowledge is a huge positive. most players i know have their own mixed rafis/yugen variant of some kind, and for some its a first step into making their own original skins too. currently i export multiple elements at a time from photoshop to the skin folder and just hit a hotkey to see them all in-game, and this is like the single biggest thing making stable skins so quick to iterate on. like another comment mentioned, changes persisting only for that skin is a bit frustrating right now. from a player pov being able to resize the UR bar from the options menu is so much more convenient than having to do it for each and every skin i use or import, even if we can copy-paste elements around. i don't really know how this can be addressed because it also extends to things like the progress bar's style. even if i could resize my UR bar globally, I tend to flip it vertically and thin the lines out to look more like stable's. i wish we could toggle the edges fading out too. importing skins is also a bit messy currently, because lazer reads the skin's name and author from skin.ini directly, and a lot of mixers just don't tweak that. my lazer install right now has like 10 different skins named "Prawilosc vJP without followpoints" because people use the folder name to tell. i guess it's kind of not a lazer issue though because i do recall being new to the game back when stable had a skin selector with autoplay preview that actually showed the names.
2:38 The problem with merging approach different and grow/deflate is compatibility with other mods, in this case traceable. You can mix traceable with approach different (really cool combination), but with grow or deflate it doesn't really make sense. The same for other mod combinations. 4:03 They tried to do so. When button becomes active it flashes. 8:19 Mirror doesn't flip stacks direction which can slightly change map sr, so it needs realtime calculation just like rate change. 9:33 Game mechanics aren't up to debate, there was a time for it before pp release. After pp release mechanics can't be changed. 11:00 Score based statistics always use old scoring method even on lazer. 12:17 The idea is people will eventually use lazer mode 99% of time. When you're not logged in on website it already uses lazer mode by default.
score farmer here, actually the score based statistics are not the same "classic scoring" in lazer it is more of an approximation to make the numbers be similar to what they are on stable however when it comes to non-fc plays in particular lazer tends to display the same play at a much higher score value than on stable. with plays set on stable only increasing the score by the stable amount and lazer vice versa leads to a discrepancy in ranked score
9:11 i've had the exact same issue, and for some reason to me it has felt more like if i was to hold down a key and just wave my cursor over the next one on accident, it would count as a miss even though i didn't send out a new input. (That's just what it *feels* like to me)
I had the same issue too. Although that was my keyboard doubletapping and can be changed by tapping differently, it still feels horrible missing this way
i switched to lazer recently and i do highly recommend it after a bit of getting used to and adjusting offset it truly feels like the superior client and is definitely the future of osu! it's only a matter of time before the majority switch probably. my only issue personally is that the song select feels cluttered but it's not really much of a problem i would also personally, as a instafade circle player, would like instafade as an option you can turn on that can apply to any skin built into the game
i've been having a lot of trouble with offset as well im tapping late constantly then on stable it feels fine (i use -9ms offset for both). What did you do to help it?
@@berthenson9946 lazer has a setting where it will automatically gather information on your tapping based on your recently played maps and give you a suggested offset, that's how i found that about 20ms was good for me, it's pretty accurate, just play a handful of less technically challenging maps as you normally would, then go to the setting and click to apply the suggested offset, it should feel better and you can keep playing and check it a few times more, as long as it consistently suggests around the same offset you're good to go
@@berthenson9946 Play a few maps and go to the settings to adjust the global offset by clicking "apply suggested offset". In Lazer the client uses your recent plays as reference to calculate the correct offset and it has worked really well for me. You can also do that on individual maps by restarting the map after playing it for a while and on the menu that pops on the right you can change the offset for that specific map using the same method
@@mango_c00kie67 wdym drivers work weird? i like the lazer ui a lot except for song select that's my issue, you should be able to stay on lazer yeah, i do and it's fine, I've heard some people have lag spike issues but i don't personally, you may need to adjust offset but that's easy on lazer because it calculates it for you
2:12 - I agree that some of these could be combined into single mods, but I wouldn't consider lazer having lots of mods an issue. That kind of suggests that we should avoid adding more of these mods, but I believe that the fun mods do add a lot of variety and interesting gameplay. 4:44 - Absolutely agree. If difficulty adjust is ranked, it can sometimes be like you're playing an entirely different map using the same leaderboards. There are a lot of super high star maps where the leaderboards are filled with people using DA to change it to CS 0, HP 0, OD 0, and it feels really cheesy. 5:56 - Definitely, and I'm surprised they haven't changed anything yet. Here's my proposal for some of the mod multipliers: HD 1.04x, HR same (1.06x), DT 1.15x (with each +0.1 rate going up by 0.03x), FL 1.15x, CL 0.97x. The DT rate change is the most important one for me--currently, HR gives the same multiplier 1.3x DT, while the latter tends to be much harder. Also a huge problem (especially noticeable during daily challenge) is that accuracy is weighted really high in scoring - you tend to need around 99.7 acc at 1.4x to get the same score as a 1.3x SS, while the former score is generally more difficult. Increasing the gaps between multipliers would make it a lot more fair in this regard. Only lowering the hidden multiplier like you propose wouldn't help much because the HDHR and HDDT scores both have hidden anyways. I think HD should still be 1.04x because there are enough maps where HD genuinely makes things harder, like AR8 tourney maps, and those shouldn't be discounted. 12:40 - hey that's me :o But I think before they can consider adding #1 ranks from lazer, they need to fix the mod multipliers first. That single first place rank on my profile is like #150 on lazer leaderboards because it's beaten by all the HDHR scores. There are a lot of #1s that would be lost in a similar way, and people would not be happy. Maybe you could do something like have two sections, one for stable #1s, one for lazer #1s, but that sounds like it could cause lots of problems by itself. 14:14 - yes please
At that point forcibly removing Stable and making people swap would make more sense. Lazer has been specifically designed to function differently from Stable, and trying to tie them back together would make zero sense.
This could be possible, Lazer has Classic SV2 and Classic mod so Multiplayer could work if u could join stable lobbies that have ScoreV2. U would have to play with CL mod forced and SV2 would ban every single Lazer mod that is not on stable. But I dunno I might be delusional because there are a lot of things that would have to be taken care of like the possibility to spectate from stable tournament client
I hope that people eventually just make the switch rather than keep making excuses for not switching already. Ask yourself this: if Lazer was the client you were on right now, and someone asked if you wanted to switch to the current stable client, would you do it? I have been playing this game for about 7 or 8 years at this point. When I see the current stable client, it looks to me like the 2007 client does to you, a current stable player. To me, it's crazy to think that most people still play on that old thing. You might be a mega specific player, which by all means wait until Lazer has what you need, but if someone just plays to farm pp or especially to have fun: switch to Lazer immediately. It's far better lol
I agree lazer is better than stable rn, but the only thing stopping me from switching rn is legit just that they don't have UI skinning. If they had an option to let you make the song select menu look the same as stable I'd instantly switch, but I'm not sure if they'll do that, or when they'll at least make menu skinning.
I strongly agree with pretty much everything you said but ultimately 12:12 is the main reason why I am not switching yet. It's like lazer exists and it is osu but it's not THE osu.
Standard player comments: 2:10 - Yeah we just bring back the classic double click for DT/NC and just implement that same logic to other mods that would see fit 3:41 - Same logic as above but triple click sounds simple enough 5:43 - Agreed the ranked mapset goes through all QC's to get that moniker changing individual pieces aside from the ranked mods shouldn't count 6:57 - This is one that keeps me from Lazer I hate how my scores in the same game reflect differently across 2 different "rulesets" like why am i punished for being an older player 7:52 - Yep 8:18 - Yeah Mirror is just HR without the CS size change I agree 8:44 - Nah it's not just you I've had that happen before everything feels too... "soft" regarding mistakes 10:58 - The minute they can copy A and S ranks to mimic standard we'll be in good hands but that'll take ages if it ever comes to fruition 13:30 - This I'll give them time for it's way better than anything we've had before 14:14 - Maybe inverting the DT mod color more the faster they go? Regular yellow/black > black/yellow? Good vid
I can actually see that notelock concern actually being super legitimate. While more lenient notelock does generally feel better for most patterns, there are some more specific ones that I can see being an issue and feeling a little strange to hit for some players depending on how they personally like to hit said patterns.
I totally agree that the mod multipliers are messed up, especially the ordering of DT versus HDHR, but I want to add my reasoning for why I think your proposed solution of halving the bonus of HD isn't ideal. The problem is that the stable mod multipliers were designed with scorev1 in mind, where acc barely matters at all. Now that we have higher acc scaling in lazer score, differences in mod multiplier can be outweighed by small acc differences much more easily than they should, as you observed in the case of mrekk's #1 on united. That's why we need to increase mod multipliers overall not decrease them. This same problem was already addressed in scorev2, where HR was increased to 1.10x and DT to 1.20x.
Speaking as a catch main, difficulty adjust should not be rankable on the basis that it would completely destroy catch as a gamemode forever. There are certain maps where when playing converts, buzz sliders give an extreme amount of pp due to being spaced in such a way where you don’t need to move your plate at all. Thankfully there’s only 2 maps right now where that’s a legitimate problem but being able to engineer your own perfectly spaced buzz slider would utterly destroy catch. As someone who recently switched to lazer fully, it’s in a pretty good state right now. I don’t think it’s entirely there yet but I’m at the point where the pros of playing on lazer versus stable outweigh the cons for me.
that's not the fault of the maps themselves though, it's the fault of the catch pp system awarding so much pp for these types of patterns. if these types of maps become more relevant, maybe it will actually motivate some people to fix the pp system for catch
@@ItzSaduI mean true. Catch pp is super messed up, but it’s really a small example of an obvious problem that would be created. You could break pretty much anything with difficulty adjust in an uncountable amount of ways that the game just isn’t really equipped to handle.
@@Nearigami not really unless i'm missing something. the only thing that could possibly break anything is buzzslider patterns becoming playable with cs adjust or potentially some more edge dash ez farm maps (amplified by ar0)? you can fix both by fixing the pp system, there's nothing truly problematic about this when it comes to the game itself and mostly just serves for regular players to play a map in a way they prefer (take most other rhythm games where you can set your scroll speed, something similar to this at the very least would be huge in catch when it comes to ar adjust)
9:03 THIS, THIS RIGHT HERE as someone who has played lazer alot I have ran into this issue so many times and couldn't Tell if it was a me problem or not
I pretty much agree with most points in this video, the only thing that I disagree with is your take on notelock. Lazer notelock to me makes the game play like it always should've, and in the example situation on Gaucho you kind of just played wrong if you tapped an extra time when you weren't supposed to. I've probably spent around half of my playtime on lazer since the pp release, but the biggest issue to me is that the leaderboards don't feel real at all and it still feels like you're not playing the same game as everyone else.
I switched to lazer a couple of weeks back and I do agree with you, but I’d add some more things: 1. Multi lobby is so different on lazer than stable, and not in a good way. Most of the times I did play with friends their profile was “Unknown” or “Undefined”, they also did not show up as online, while their appearance was set to online 2. Scoreboard Customisation is something I really want. I want to see what score and combo the person above me got while I play the map, instead of it disappearing and only showing profile pictures, and also changing the colors and opacity of the scoreboard would be great Thats it thank you for reading
Literally the ONLY thing i want from osu as a whole rn is a practice mode, i wanna be able to: change mods including difficulty mod, RX, AP, Auto literally everything, change DT rate, skip or go back to a different part of the song, set checkpoints if i fail i go back there instead of the start, quickly retry and set my FL circle size All MID-MAP at the cost of losing my score and i would switch over on the spot and i would not look back
One of things I'd love is creating diffs based on mod combinations, like a "save as difficulty" button. All good saving mod presets globally, but some maps work best with a specific combination
2:15 and 7:10 Removing/combining mods is hard because of tons of database and web stuff they'd have to redo. I know because the 10K+ mania community asked for removal of mania Co-Op mod, which is the source of most bugs with 10K+ mania in lazer, and is apparently only used by the 10K+ community, and only because it gives you a second set of keybinds for a given keycount(one with split stage and one without). Clayton, peppy and smoogi all agreed it brings a lot of non-intuitive unnecessary complexity, but the amount of effort necessary to undo years of this without losing scores is large enough that it would take people out of other priorities, especially since combining all the 1K-10K conversion mods may be required too. Same with classic mod, multiplier makes even less sense for mania, but yet again, fixing it means tons of database/web stuff to redo. EDIT: Apparently there is no "classic mod" in catch, the icon is just used to show the play was done in stable. Removed my point about catch. 13:30 Skinning on lazer is nowhere near complete and in some ways outright broken in mania. The best example is the percy longnote "fix". Want a non-square longnote end aligned to the bottom of the next note instead of the top? Broken. A gradient on your longnotes? Broken. Even percy that isn't EXACTLY 30,000 pixels high will look somewhat wrong. And the developers openly say they don't want to touch that code with a 100 foot pole ever again. Not commenting on standard things because I don't play standard, but one thing I'd add is submitting maps from lazer editor.
They could totally combine mods in the UI but under the hood they're still individual mods. But that just seems like too small of a thing to really care about.
For me it’s a lot of the little things that aren’t in lazer that turn me off it. Not being able to sort by favourites, various annoyances when it comes to skins, most of the mods not being ranked among other random issues that I don’t really have when it comes to stable that keep me from switching over. Although I do think lazer is a great client overall, and most of my problems with it are either easy to fix or a product of me just being picky
6:38 after nerfing HD, 98% HDDT play will still be below HDHR SS. Most people agree that multipliers on lazer should be higher than on stable since due to acc importance harder mods are undervaluated if you get mediocre acc. HD multiplier is the only one that seems fine, but DT, FL and HR need a buff
Agree with Mr. completionist here, I'm losing number 1 scores with harder mods just because acc being lower than 98... really hate when I FC daily challenges with 1.2× over NM and don't get high enough acc to snipe the NM score...
i feel like lazer adoption might've been larger right now if it was catering towards tryhards first, and leaving casuals on second plan. catering to tryhard score farmers, top players, tourney players and mappers from the start. for fun eyecandy casual features way later on. because the casuals will naturally just follow the "elite" wherever they move to
I'm sad this video doesn't mention the osu! development roadmap, I'd love to see someone address/criticize how they've been handling which features are prioritized over others, and also the philosophy behind development more broadly. Like, I have the feeling they should have a clearer goal in mind: making osu!stable feel exactly like a worse & less complete version of lazer. It still just feels too much like a different game to me. For instance, why experiment with unproven major changes to gameplay and leaderboards before everyone has already bought into the new platform? Perhaps because they aren't *that* confident about how receptive the playerbase will be towards these bigger changes, and they want to ease us into a somewhat different game with a somewhat different vision? I'm not a big fan of that.
It's possible that "not being adventurous" also means we don't get stuff like the current skin editor, like the diff adjust mod, like all of the cool shit in the editor, like round robin in multi, and so on if the team hardline went for "stable but better" then we'd have to wait way longer for a lot the features that I, and probably others, became a reason to switch over. that's just a depressing way to live tbh I think there's a balance to be had, and I personally feel like they're handling it well, although one huge miss for me is better skinning - tbh i'd take that over "real pp scores" even, but my prefs are minority af so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Because it's a top-to-bottom recreation, and for something like that, if you want to make really really big major changes you need to settle on them early and implement them into the foundation of the game. If you don't do this you'll end up with a spaghetti code-base like stable, exactly what's meant to be avoided, and you'll blindside players with these gargantuan changes well after they've settled into the new client. lazer isn't just meant to be a better, more complete version of stable. It's an entirely new codebase, and a full rewrite of the game that doesn't hinge on stable, bar the very basics of gameplay, at all.
As someone who completely switched to lazer years ago, I think lazer is a lot better for the casual player than for the competitive/serious player. The devs and contributors are working on improving other players' experiences, but things are a lot more complex than stable and there are a lot of cool new features being introduced as well. And it won't to be possible to satisfy every player coming from stable, especially players who don't want a lot of change.
4:42 I disagree with your point here, I can understand the consequences of that much freedom on a map but that does not make it impossible for it to work, we just have not reached to that point yet. Limiting mods like this would not help the game grow and evolve for the future.
something that I know for a fact won't get fixed, is the crazy input delay on lazer versus stable, on stable it's literally instantaneous but on lazer, it kinda, wobbles around, sometimes it's instant sometimes it's lazer fast (pun entirely intended) and the game appears to be running smooth, there's no skipping in frame rate at all but some how, in the exact same state switching between lazer and stable it seems that lazer just isn't up to par with stable response time, I even tried switching the render engine to opengl but that made it to where it's constantly having that little bit of input delay, but then I've gotta consistently click off rhythm to be on rhythm and it just hurts, so I'm remaining on stable until that's fixed, or rather, IF it gets fixed, if it's not then I'm just gonna keep the last stable version of osu backed up and just play on that
Making anime girls skins work in all menus (pause, failed, score etc) At least i was able to add an anime girl to the song selection menu. PD: 3:32 If you click the button that says adjust pitch at DT customisation , its lit the same as night core , you can even make it more night core or even make DT just like DayCore, so ye, on lazer nighcore and daycore are esentially just sitting there doing nothing useful at all
@@know_how_games Idk, i dont play nightcore i alr have enough problems with fceing no mods 4.5* maps..., but well, is that drum thingy important or its just like a extra sound bc why not Xd?
as a full time lazer main i agree with almost everything and hope your suggestions get added in. i think you’re wrong on notelock though, while i found it difficult to unlearn stable expectations, its since become second nature. i think you do misunderstand how notelock works a little on lazer (it actually does wiggle notes if you cant hit them in some circumstances) but its not a big deal
My thoughts about this, which are missing on lazer: - There are still some small gameplay animation differences, for example kiai animation. - The rewrite of audio on lazer is buggy for me, sometimes my audio delay/offset goes wrong and it makes lazer practically unplayable. Apprently it's resulted from libaries what lazer is using and apprently they can't do anything about it. - Collections aren't as easy to use as on stable. - and then ofc stuff that others have mentioned already (UI, skinning and more)
As someone who has made a custom skin, seeing that laser only supports the in-game interface is sad. I want to customise as much of the UI as I can, just like in standard. I think I'll switch to laser when that happens.
I switched to osu! Lazer back in February of this year (2024) and I've loved it. It was rather rough when i switched getting used to not note locking and the sudden frame drops that still haven't been completely evened out but theyre few and far between. being able to download maps and use the 1.2 or 1.3 speed feature on lazer instead of other clients like mcosu makes the game feel complete. After this new pp update I absolutely recommend switching to it and getting used to the new changes :)
Btw, I think you could just export/import the lazer skin to stable, do the changes, then reimport it to lazer. Also, I saw someone that said you can export it from stable and rename it to a .zip file, do the changes, and change it back to the origional one (i think its .osz? or something like that), Im not sure if that works, never tried it
I think the da mod can be ranked but just needs an algorithm for determining what gives more score and what looses score. An example would be if you increased the ar on a map on a map with ar 8.7 - 9.3 to ar 10 it actually just doesn’t increase any values or even decreases by a very small value but anything under ar 8.7 it decreases score and scales with how much the ar increase change is could work, this way it could work in the same way of lowering ar, as this would be a compromise on people who play ez but it rewards them instead of the big hit they get as they are still playing the same od, where u take a ar 9.8 map and make it ar7 or something it will reward u as the reading difficulty on the map increases The other part of the da mod are all fine and self explanatory imo increase in cs should reward more just needs a strong curve on it where it doesn’t really reward much until something like cs6.72 And hp and od can follow in the same format tldr: it’s rankable but just needs the right parameters
I've been exclusively playing on lazer for a couple years, and I've definitely had a lot of random misses on notes overlapping a slider for seemingly no reason at all That and the skin editor are basically my only gripes right now
The problem for me is that I have a habit of doubletapping sliders, and if there is an overlapping note after the slider you often instantly miss when the slider ends. I can kind of stop doing it but it makes it so much more annoying to play anything fast where I can't consciously try to not doubletap sliders and I just miss constantly. Yeah it's a bad habit but quite a few top players do something similar, and it isn't a problem in stable. I know at least worst hr player does this sometimes.
by that logic we should delete every mode in the game? Though still DA probably would break the game so I don't want it to be ranked, don't think there is a way to properly balance it
@@eienn DA is way way way different than any other ranked mode tho, any other mode is a set of difficulty adjustment, like how DT sped up time and HR make cs smaller and mirror, now how you gonna balance something like DA? OD adjust, AR adjust, CS, Health, yada yada you get it, i never see people explained how they would balance the mod so that it could be ranked, you could explained it tho.
Definitely the mod menu is way overwhelming. Like genuinely there needs to be a bteer way to lay it out to make it more condensed so that I dont feel like Im searching in a game of where's waldo to find a mod
this seems to be a subjective opinion, so i do agree they should continue to make the UI more customizable so everyone can configure things how they want
Once they rank classic I’ll play lazer, I also would think it’d be cool to get the ability to toggle a more stable-like ui as I’ve gotten used to that one and it feels uncomfortable to navigate lazer
Difficulty adjust would actually be terrible for ranked ngl. It would just ruin too many purposeful mapping choices. AND THEY NEED TO ADD GROUPING FOR SONG SELECT MAN
the thing is, with difficulty adjust, i think it should still be ranked, but the mod wouldnt affect the leaderboard afaik, since it halfs the score multiplier. but i do get your point on how it'll affect pp. some people have been saying it shouldnt be ranked because thats not how the mapper created the map for the song, i dont think thats a good argument, the mod is good for replaying the map, like different mechanical skillset such as low and high ar reading, and the small and big circle size (lol)
I think the Conversion mods should be seperately catergorized as Training (umranked) since it highly customizable and Fun mods could be implement directly into mapping (just an idea). A lot of the new mods are overwhelming to me as a long time player (maybe cuz im eccentric). Theres to many to experiment with to find it "fun" with maps being mostly unique to one another. I just wanna hop into a map
The only reason i don't play lazer is because I'm a mouse player, and lazer just feels.. off. I still haven't found words to describe what it is, but it's almost like my aim is more floaty
custom rate ht/dt is already there. what do you mean by "cross-compatibility with stable"? also skin elements are VERY customizable now. you people just complain without even trying it out
@trustytrojan I meant by rate changes being ranked and actually gain pp And for cross compatability i meant like multi-player lobbies can be played together never less what client you are on. Lastly skin elements, I want to edit the hit circles without going to the stable client then change it there to import it back to lazer. I know there is a pull request for that and I'm waiting for that to be merged to upstream.
@@AquaPoki the editor changes will happen. but multiplayer with stable and ranked custom rate will never. multiplayer with stable requires the devs to rewrite basically all the stable code, which is already a mess. and ranking custom rate is gonna be a mess because it's going to be the most farmable mod causing unnecessary pp inflation, especially with the pp rework in place now
@@AquaPoki also skin elements were never editable in stable? idk what youre on buddy but i agree they should make any image-based elements editable in lazer, and they definitely will down the line
One point I almost can't believe you didn't mention is collections. I really don't like how collections are handled in lazer currently, it's way more tedious to switch between them and searching for a map across all collections is impossible I hope the beatmap selection overhaul addresses this
regarding notelock: I feel like lazer's take on note lock is a net positive still. you can fuck up stacks, but you also don't get penalized with like 7 additional misses because you overaimed a stream slightly, or any other fast pattern for that matter
lol i actually paused right before your suggestion to improve note lock, which actually sounds kinda pog. i'd be down for more note lock on denser patterns
Raising the classic mod multiplier to 0.97x won't be enough. I've gotten a few #1s on lazer, and every time I have to worry about whether it's a "fake" or "genuine" #1 because the 0.96x multiplier gives me way too much of an advantage. It would need to be something like 0.99x to feel fair on leaderboards, because the score differences there are quite small. Personally I think the most natural way to deal with this is take the accuracy that the player got on circles and assume that they hit sliderheads with that same accuracy. This would automatically account for maps with more or fewer sliders as well. It might overestimate some scores, but I doubt many leaderboard players actually hit sliderheads inaccurately compared to circles. Either way, it would be much better than how they're currently massively underestimated.
There should be an overhaul of lazer's gui or make an optional gui that has similar ideas as stable such the orange and pink color on song selection and mod section.
i always had this thought that peppy and the team made a massive mistake by going all out with new lazer features, they should have made a stable remake and go from there when its finished, that way they could have added features little by little to get more precise feedback, now that lazer is more played because of the PP thing, theres A LOT of people annoyed by a lot of things, multiple opinions and criticism flying arround, its just way more difficult to tackle every problem, if i was a dev for lazer, i would literally die from stress with everything they have to do
My notelock problem is that it's too lenient with consistently bad playing, like trying to deathstream and every 2nd hit is a 100 should gradually ramp up the notelock. I should be punished for that. Not just pass it with bad acc.
For difficulty adjust I think you have a fair point that should be addressed upon. However, your point of pp abuse doesn't tend to the changing of AR. Because AR doesn't significantly affect pp like the other mods. And for a rhythm game one of the core adjustable elements is the AR\Scroll speed (and i really want to DTHR tbh).
My biggest thing is the hit accuracy bar being flipped on lazer and not being able to flip it back, when first swapping I kept overstreaming thinking that I was behind when I was not....
I know it would be clunky, but i think it would be really cool to easily see Difficulty adjust pp, scores, and leaderboards. It should definitely stay separate until its polished, but its such a cool mod :(
I have no problem with lazer apart from the too soft notelock system that when by accident i pressed two keys and it just missed both notes due to how soft the notelock is, although the approach circle was still far from the hit circle itself
Most of these takes don't feel like complaints that warrant not using the client since they dont effect gameplay (aside from your notelock issue), only the leaderboard and menu stuff. (which, you now have to deal with the leaderboard anyway even on stable because it doesnt change depending on client you run lol) my take on things I want to see from osu: AR should be set by the player and not be a part of PP calculations in any way. (i'd even love to see mappers be able to set AR multipliers for things like bpm changes). OD should be a constant that's the same for every map in the game. (or atleast some formula that's based off the star rating or something, not mapper configurable) I approve of the removal of combo scaling and think PP should correlate 1:1 to accuracy, not even considering misses at all (as misses would naturally decrease accuracy)
For me, if they make an option to make the song select ui the same as stable, and make it so that we can use our own tablet drivers, I would be willing to switch immediately Tbh, I'm not sure if the tablet driver thing is just a me thing, but it forces me to use the built-in one when I play in lazer, and that's kind of annoying to set up compared to a downloaded one
It's fine for me. Relax and Autopilot actually appear on the leaderboard if you didn't know, but they only have a 0.10x multi so they don't do trouble. As long as the multiplier stays low I don't see a problem
While I don't really care about DA as a whole, AR adjust is long overdue as something that should be controlled by the player. This is the case in literally every rhythm game imaginable and std players have stockholm syndrome for wanting it any other way. It is fake difficulty at its worst, and as long as that becomes a thing with no serious penalties the rest of DA can be purely for practice (even though I believe it will be ranked after difficulty calculation is implemented in score submission).
UR Bar: Looks terrible (nearly unusable) and I have to resize it for *every* skin instead of just adjusting score meter in settings that affects all skins. Also shift+tab should not hide UR bar (or at least should be possible to hide everything except the UR bar)
1.Yeah, some modes can be combined, but I don't think it's a big problem at current state. 2.Yeah, also had problem with finding customize mod button. Probably they shoud make this button more bright. 3.I can understand why you are so nervous about ranked difficulty adjust, but given Peppy's performance, we shouldn't worry about it in the next five years(like he would probably gonna spend half of year for making in-game pp leaderboard). 4.DT should be buffed. Try to change my opinion. 5.No buff for classic scores. I love sniping them. 6.IDK why people want ranked classic. I understand that it makes sense, but what about pp? Like lazer got pp boost in only last update, but I still think that most people prefer to farm with classic. Gonna accept ranked classic only if it's will give much less pp. 7.Not sure about mirror, peppy should discuss this with really good players. 8.Prefer how lazer work with notelock. 9.I don't like lazer's profile. The main problem, that it doen't have all web functions(like pinning scores). You can say, that it's not really big problem to visit website sometimes, and you will be right. But for me it's just feels really weirld to use osu's website after lazer experience. 10.Fully based about two separate environments. As lazer player I just hope peppy will add dt modifires ranked, so I could have big pp boost(because I already play with these). Also hope to see in future ppv1(or old ppv2) inspired leaderboard(this will be at least really funny)
DA not ranked = no thanks to lazer. Thats about it. I have no issues with things being broken if it shakes up the meta. A major selling point of lazer is supposedly its fluidity in changing things around when needed compared to stable, but none of that shit is happening. Same with leaderboards. Granted I don't follow every single update because barely anything happens, but I was excited for this when this was still called osu!next so just fatigued from caring at all. There is a plethora of other niche things that turn me off from lazer and even more things I could not give any valid opinion over (mapping). EDIT: forgot to mention after 4885728 years we are finally getting CSR yippee, can't wait for the next 8 pages of lazer fun mods no one is going to touch until any other updates are considered.
Stating OPINIONS not Gospel. 2:30 Approach different is not comparabe to deflate and grow, because there are no approach circles. Thats why its a separate mod. Grow and Deflate COULD be combined, but they arent, probably because its easier to see which mod was used on a play on the selected mods menu instead of one having to hover on the mods to see which was used (how DT rates are shown rn would be how the devs would need to do those two if they were combined, which is just inconvinent if you already have a graphic to distinguish them) 3:30 nightcore being a different setting of DT is how it is on stable, people wouldnt be up and arms about it because nightcore is alr treated as DT but high pitch. 3:45 Perfect IS just a 100% cap on accuracy challenge. Though, It's *cool* to have it, because you don't need to hover over someone's accuracy challenge to see that they are restricted to 100%. Though Sudden Death is VERY different from both in what it wants to do, mainly because of the other gamemodes that are not osu! (were misses play a HUGE role on pp) or catchthebeat (were missing is the only way to lose acc) 4:30 If something is deemed overvalued in the pp system, the pp devs will nerf it. For example: they can make so changing the AR does not give more pp, only less pp in Difficulty Adjust, not Hard Rock, as HR also increases CS and HP drain. 5:30 ? That would be the most immediatelly changeable thing, like obviously +0.1 difficulty on everything wouldn't give 10 more pp on a map 5:40 Why have Difficulty Adjust ranked: *You don't need to wait for a mapper to map something of your type*, you can ppmax a map you alr have an FC on, or allow a map that is a little too difficult for one to get a lower misscount to be possible *without halving your pp and changin AR like EZ does*. 7:27 (forcing the meme, but not too forced) Osu! update announcers PPY and Pishy said that HDHR was supposed to be worth more score than DT only in all scenarios, which was once a quirk for only SS HDHR vs SS DT and extremely niche acc scenarios. 9:50 Unfortunate explanation as that sounds to a simpleton like me: "I'm having problems with finger control" skill issue. But secondarily, you shouldn't be able to hit a note through a slider before the slider ends. The rest is Gucci.
I don't know how much of a hot topic this would be, but I think at this point DT should just become a "misc" mod of sorts, and literally just be called "Rate Change", allowing for 0.5-2x speed change and have a button to toggle pitch changes. On other notes, I think DA SHOULD be ranked, on the basis that any AR/HP changes ALWAYS reduce score. OD/CS just makes maps plain harder or plain easier, so a system like how DT works would make sense.
Not really seeing your point about difficulty adjust tbh, it does already make it so the score doesnt give pp (it says unranked in the bottom right) and reduces score multiplier by 50 percent which is definitely a good amount to make it harder to get a good leaderboard spot with. Ive never seen them say that diff adjust should be ranked (only thing ive seen plans for is the rate change dt being ranked). If im wrong let me know but i dont think diff adjust was ever planned to be ranked.
The DA complaints have pretty weak arguments IMO: 1) Score leaderboards. There are 2 potential solutions to DA in score. Either completely destroyed (like RX 0.1x or even lower). Or it will dynamically nuke score if there's possibility of removing gimmick. For example - increasing CS will kinda work similar to DT/HT. Every .5 CS increase will award you with a bonus when lowering CS will nuke score. HP will only affect score if you're decreasing it OD - same as CS And AR will decrease your score if you're changing it in any direction. I proposed -5% score for every 0.1 change in AR capping at -50%. 2) Pp leaderboards. Reading pp will reward playing with lower AR. And if even in this case all lb are filled with DA - this means that reading pp is just not big enough ). 3) Min maxing. The increasing CS by .1 is not gonna change anything. Like really, this is a difference of getting 2 less 100s. Increasing OD by .1 is even more laughable, as you will most likely decrease pp by doing this instead of increase. So doing this will just show your lack of understanding how things work.
I completely agree with this. The main problem with DA rn is that it would exaggerate flaws within the pp system. Although they are there rn, the amount by which it can be abused is minimal as it is completely dependent on which maps abuse those flaws. DA being ranked would mean that a lot more maps could be abused. DA should only be ranked when flaws like that within the pp system get ironed out
I dont think that the DA complaints were very weak arguments. Adjusting CS and OD to make a map slightly easier or harder for the sake of score or pp completely obscures the point of playing nomod. I don't think this is inheretly a bad thing but seeing either leaderboards or profiles with only DA in the future where it's ranked makes the game seem a bit too meta, in my opinion. As for AR, calculating pp for reading is hard enough as is because of skin cheesing and different peripherals; I think allowing users to adjust approach rate to their comfort almost diminishes the point of having reading pp because players will either do what's most comfortable or cheese the reading pp value in some way. Additionally, I think one of the biggest complaints I have about difficulty adjust being ranked is it basically removing any point of ever using HR, EZ, NF since you can just adjust the values to be like them except make a certain aspect easier like changing HR's HP. Like I said about nomod, there isn't anything inheretly wrong about this, but it completely changes the Difficulty Adjust "Mod" into a completely meta-defining way players are forced to play the game to keep up with any meta regarding leaderboards and pp. What I've said only scratches the surface of why DA shouldn't be ranked (which is probably also why Willy didnt explain in detail in the video either) and it is coming from someone with the extreme bias against it being ranked, but I think ranking difficulty adjust comes with extremely unfixible flaws that completely destroy the meta of the game.
@@jpluna001 you're a bit misunderstaing DA isn't diminishing "the point of having reading pp" - it's doing literally the opposite EZ players are just sitting here waiting the moment when they can properly play their skillset without being bound by EZ mod
@@XLGamer10 DA can't be ranked until serious abuse connected with it are fixed, this is correct But the problem that Willy and most people who are against DA using the "abuse" argument as just an addition They just against the idea of player being free to choose what exactly map they want to play
@@jpluna001 HR still have score advantage, so don't sure that removing HP is worth it (especially that HP above 7 is a lot more lenient in lazer, because HP in stable was pretty dog and HP10 is literally unplayable). EZ is just very poorly designed mod and DA replacing it is not a bad thing but good thing. Reading players are waiting for the moment where they can push their skillset properly. NF isn't even used for farming so it's not even worth discussing IMO
i havent watched the video yet but i tried playing mania and i could NOT find a way to change the hitposition even though the one my skin had was horrible
Lowkey i play only lazer, im a casual, the only thing i miss from stable is the group by function when searching for maps. I used to sort on difficulty and group on rank achieved and now i cant :(
it's killing the history of the game, it could've easily been avoided but peppy is keen on destroying entire communities, I don't know why you're so optimistic about this out of all the people who could've been. Have you read chicken_10's me section? You could've been more of a voice for the problems. There won't be any historic #1s left after the switch to lazer happens. Even score farming is getting hurt by the devs not bothering to make an accurate to stable scorev1 on lazer. This is not getting into the fact that gaining pp will be incredibly easy now, way way easier than it's ever been, which ontop of hurting the history hurts the meta as well. The future was looking bleak for top pp scores without dt, and it will be entirely impossible after this switch. the suddenly higher pp plays that will come in vastly more quantity will not be because most top players improved overnight. I do not really care about this though. It's honestly really sad that they don't care for entire communities and favor only a couple vastly. When the current state of the game lets every community exist, lazer's won't. Adapting is not an option, we're basically forced this update by how they're knowingly pretty much making using stable a stupid choice because of how unfavorable it'll be (which they'll justify its lack of development and ultimate demise with). For leaderboards they are merging, you won't be able to ignore it when #1s will be getting sniped left and right, and the history of the game will die. Please go and see galaxy collapse leaderboard and how the top of the leaderboard is dominated by 6 digits playing it at 0.5 speed, a map that obviously is 100% definitively surely positively 100000000% meant for only top players to be able to get any meaningful score on, but beginners are able to snipe legendary scores on it. And no, this problem will never be solved, they cannot balance a couple mods, they won't balance the random ass 30 mods they're adding, even if they do, it'll make the historical relevance of the game die. for 16 years this game has had a set number of mods, the same amount of score they give etc. 16 years, I bet that's older than most of the kids who are happy about these changes.
i agree with a lot of this. most of the fun mods shouldn't show up on leaderboards (or have a lower multiplier), difficulty adjust should be completely unranked, and slider accuracy (+ classic mod) should have never been introduced. osu!lazer muddies the leaderboards with these issues, and classic mod having a 0.96x multiplier is pretty much a middle finger to stable players that their scores don't matter anymore
You made some great points, but I want to ask you WIlly What do you think about rate change getting ranked? Will it break anything or is it something that should have happened long ago?
rate change being ranked is a horrible idea. pp records will just be 0.01x increments on farm maps you can learn 100 short maps with fl and then jsut rate change them higher and higher all stream maps can be made to any bpm and are therefore all the same basically bad idea.
Personally I thhink that every map (maybe without some mods) should be ranked, including diff. adjustment mod. It being unranked is just an excuse for the terrible pp system. The truth is meta will always exist so why not make everything farmable? I just agree with min. map length requirement so it requires some level of consistency but again i think it still is fixable with better pp aystem.
Imo most of the issues you have have are bc lazer isn't out now and some other preferences, some i agree with and some don't. And tbf even if lazer has been in development for years now it's still has a long way to go.
there are a lot of quality of life features that could be added in lazer and a lot of people would want many different things but you can't always follows everyone like opinion or thoughts, you might be one of only like maybe hundreds of people who are not happy with some changes and i'm not saying you're wrong or anything ; all i'm saying is that you can't satisfy everyone with dissapointing someone else.
I'm not sure if I'm the only person thinking it would be a nice addition to lazer, but please remove dying from the game, as gameplay interruption. Ever since switching my playstyle I have been playing with nofail pretty much all the time because I just want to finish the map. Why not make it like in multiplayer: hp goes to 0 - the score is not submitted to the server, retry if you want, or finish the map. Wanna submit the score anyways? Use nofail. Who loses from this change?
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Another skinning issue that i felt needed mentioning is that any change you make to the environment of one skin(placement of score, pp, hp bar etc) only stays in that skin. And there's no way to copy those changes onto a different skins. This is why i have only played lazer with one of my skins, even though there are maps where I reckon I'd enjoy other skins
you can copy and paste the elements from one skin to another with ctrl+c ctrl+v and it stays in the same position with the same size
you can copy those changes by using ctrl+c and ctrl+v, though i appreciate it if there's an easier way to just have it apply automatically
what others have said and you can also ctrl-a to select all the elements and do them all at once. its quite fast once you get used to it and works well if you only use like single digit nunber of skins.
i do agree that there needs to be some way to do it where you can just like "apply to all" because some people have huge skin folders and they like to use all of the skins every now and then.
The only thing I miss as a mania player is easily messing with skin.ini and overall the skin assets files, I would love to at least get these types of changes implemented in lazer UI
difficulty adjust is already unranked (it says unranked in the bottom right corner, but unfortunately the facecam's covering it)
yeah that's what i thought I'm certain they're not gonna rank it lol
Yeah, that's why i feel so weird while watching that part
He never said it’s already ranked. But people who work on lazer confirmed that difficulty adjust will be ranked
@@exelence2679 did they really? who confirmed? if it does get ranked, it definitely will be a problem lol
should only ever be for personal customisation and practice
@@Taxuma_peppy confirmed he wants to rank all or most mods and da is gonna get ranked def its not a problem when stat acc is implemented lol
13:35 - just to clarify, you *can* change elements by dragging images with the correct names into the client. i went and tested to be sure - you have to delete the sprite it creates, then switch to another skin and back. the ctrl+alt+shift+s skin reload hotkey from stable doesn't seem to exist here. it's pretty clunky at the moment.
i haven't seen many skinners talking about lazer, in part because i don't hang around in skinning discords or anything like that, but i'm one of those players who spends most of their time in the game making original skins; everything related to skinning is 100% the biggest question mark over lazer for me right now. it's understandably hard to comment on what could be better because, as was mentioned in the video, things are subject to change quite soon - i'm also just not really sure what the planned end goal is for it, since most of stable's skinnable UI elements like pause/fail and results aren't (yet?) here.
a lot of the current stable skinning jank is going to be replaced with the ability to place sprites wherever, and no longer having weird hacks with selection-mode and the like causing aspect ratio dependent skins is a good thing overall. my biggest hope for lazer for the longest time had honestly just been that the missing few pieces in stable skinning like custom selection-tab or menu-button-background tint colors would be made available, assuming we'd get legacy UI. skinners will know that there ways around this but i've always preferred to make skins that support all aspect ratios, so having these last few things available would be such a game changer. the recent addition of skinnable songselect-top and songselect-bottom to stable was already pretty huge.
as far as ease of use goes, i really do think we need something closer to the skin folders in stable. i'm not convinced something like the editor's external edit button will be the way to go here. the way any stable player can go into the skins folder and just mix elements freely with very little technical knowledge is a huge positive. most players i know have their own mixed rafis/yugen variant of some kind, and for some its a first step into making their own original skins too. currently i export multiple elements at a time from photoshop to the skin folder and just hit a hotkey to see them all in-game, and this is like the single biggest thing making stable skins so quick to iterate on.
like another comment mentioned, changes persisting only for that skin is a bit frustrating right now. from a player pov being able to resize the UR bar from the options menu is so much more convenient than having to do it for each and every skin i use or import, even if we can copy-paste elements around. i don't really know how this can be addressed because it also extends to things like the progress bar's style. even if i could resize my UR bar globally, I tend to flip it vertically and thin the lines out to look more like stable's. i wish we could toggle the edges fading out too.
importing skins is also a bit messy currently, because lazer reads the skin's name and author from skin.ini directly, and a lot of mixers just don't tweak that. my lazer install right now has like 10 different skins named "Prawilosc vJP without followpoints" because people use the folder name to tell. i guess it's kind of not a lazer issue though because i do recall being new to the game back when stable had a skin selector with autoplay preview that actually showed the names.
2:38 The problem with merging approach different and grow/deflate is compatibility with other mods, in this case traceable. You can mix traceable with approach different (really cool combination), but with grow or deflate it doesn't really make sense. The same for other mod combinations.
4:03 They tried to do so. When button becomes active it flashes.
8:19 Mirror doesn't flip stacks direction which can slightly change map sr, so it needs realtime calculation just like rate change.
9:33 Game mechanics aren't up to debate, there was a time for it before pp release. After pp release mechanics can't be changed.
11:00 Score based statistics always use old scoring method even on lazer.
12:17 The idea is people will eventually use lazer mode 99% of time. When you're not logged in on website it already uses lazer mode by default.
to add on, the classic multiplier was chosen by the community
score farmer here, actually the score based statistics are not the same "classic scoring" in lazer it is more of an approximation to make the numbers be similar to what they are on stable however when it comes to non-fc plays in particular lazer tends to display the same play at a much higher score value than on stable.
with plays set on stable only increasing the score by the stable amount and lazer vice versa leads to a discrepancy in ranked score
9:11 i've had the exact same issue, and for some reason to me it has felt more like if i was to hold down a key and just wave my cursor over the next one on accident, it would count as a miss even though i didn't send out a new input. (That's just what it *feels* like to me)
I had the same issue too. Although that was my keyboard doubletapping and can be changed by tapping differently, it still feels horrible missing this way
i switched to lazer recently and i do highly recommend it after a bit of getting used to and adjusting offset it truly feels like the superior client and is definitely the future of osu! it's only a matter of time before the majority switch probably. my only issue personally is that the song select feels cluttered but it's not really much of a problem
i would also personally, as a instafade circle player, would like instafade as an option you can turn on that can apply to any skin built into the game
i've been having a lot of trouble with offset as well im tapping late constantly then on stable it feels fine (i use -9ms offset for both). What did you do to help it?
@@berthenson9946 lazer has a setting where it will automatically gather information on your tapping based on your recently played maps and give you a suggested offset, that's how i found that about 20ms was good for me, it's pretty accurate, just play a handful of less technically challenging maps as you normally would, then go to the setting and click to apply the suggested offset, it should feel better and you can keep playing and check it a few times more, as long as it consistently suggests around the same offset you're good to go
@@berthenson9946 Play a few maps and go to the settings to adjust the global offset by clicking "apply suggested offset". In Lazer the client uses your recent plays as reference to calculate the correct offset and it has worked really well for me. You can also do that on individual maps by restarting the map after playing it for a while and on the menu that pops on the right you can change the offset for that specific map using the same method
my main problems with lazer is that drivers work weird, and the UI is ugly but other than that can i just stay on lazer with 0 issues?
@@mango_c00kie67 wdym drivers work weird? i like the lazer ui a lot except for song select that's my issue, you should be able to stay on lazer yeah, i do and it's fine, I've heard some people have lag spike issues but i don't personally, you may need to adjust offset but that's easy on lazer because it calculates it for you
2:12 - I agree that some of these could be combined into single mods, but I wouldn't consider lazer having lots of mods an issue. That kind of suggests that we should avoid adding more of these mods, but I believe that the fun mods do add a lot of variety and interesting gameplay.
4:44 - Absolutely agree. If difficulty adjust is ranked, it can sometimes be like you're playing an entirely different map using the same leaderboards. There are a lot of super high star maps where the leaderboards are filled with people using DA to change it to CS 0, HP 0, OD 0, and it feels really cheesy.
5:56 - Definitely, and I'm surprised they haven't changed anything yet. Here's my proposal for some of the mod multipliers: HD 1.04x, HR same (1.06x), DT 1.15x (with each +0.1 rate going up by 0.03x), FL 1.15x, CL 0.97x. The DT rate change is the most important one for me--currently, HR gives the same multiplier 1.3x DT, while the latter tends to be much harder. Also a huge problem (especially noticeable during daily challenge) is that accuracy is weighted really high in scoring - you tend to need around 99.7 acc at 1.4x to get the same score as a 1.3x SS, while the former score is generally more difficult. Increasing the gaps between multipliers would make it a lot more fair in this regard. Only lowering the hidden multiplier like you propose wouldn't help much because the HDHR and HDDT scores both have hidden anyways. I think HD should still be 1.04x because there are enough maps where HD genuinely makes things harder, like AR8 tourney maps, and those shouldn't be discounted.
12:40 - hey that's me :o
But I think before they can consider adding #1 ranks from lazer, they need to fix the mod multipliers first. That single first place rank on my profile is like #150 on lazer leaderboards because it's beaten by all the HDHR scores. There are a lot of #1s that would be lost in a similar way, and people would not be happy. Maybe you could do something like have two sections, one for stable #1s, one for lazer #1s, but that sounds like it could cause lots of problems by itself.
14:14 - yes please
multiplayer compatibility with stable
this gonna take so freaking long
never happening cuz it'd require heavily modifying stable
osu dev server said it's like super omega impossible
At that point forcibly removing Stable and making people swap would make more sense. Lazer has been specifically designed to function differently from Stable, and trying to tie them back together would make zero sense.
This could be possible, Lazer has Classic SV2 and Classic mod so Multiplayer could work if u could join stable lobbies that have ScoreV2.
U would have to play with CL mod forced and SV2 would ban every single Lazer mod that is not on stable.
But I dunno I might be delusional because there are a lot of things that would have to be taken care of like the possibility to spectate from stable tournament client
I hope that people eventually just make the switch rather than keep making excuses for not switching already. Ask yourself this: if Lazer was the client you were on right now, and someone asked if you wanted to switch to the current stable client, would you do it?
I have been playing this game for about 7 or 8 years at this point. When I see the current stable client, it looks to me like the 2007 client does to you, a current stable player. To me, it's crazy to think that most people still play on that old thing. You might be a mega specific player, which by all means wait until Lazer has what you need, but if someone just plays to farm pp or especially to have fun: switch to Lazer immediately. It's far better lol
I agree lazer is better than stable rn, but the only thing stopping me from switching rn is legit just that they don't have UI skinning. If they had an option to let you make the song select menu look the same as stable I'd instantly switch, but I'm not sure if they'll do that, or when they'll at least make menu skinning.
I strongly agree with pretty much everything you said but ultimately 12:12 is the main reason why I am not switching yet. It's like lazer exists and it is osu but it's not THE osu.
Standard player comments:
2:10 - Yeah we just bring back the classic double click for DT/NC and just implement that same logic to other mods that would see fit
3:41 - Same logic as above but triple click sounds simple enough
5:43 - Agreed the ranked mapset goes through all QC's to get that moniker changing individual pieces aside from the ranked mods shouldn't count
6:57 - This is one that keeps me from Lazer I hate how my scores in the same game reflect differently across 2 different "rulesets" like why am i punished for being an older player
7:52 - Yep
8:18 - Yeah Mirror is just HR without the CS size change I agree
8:44 - Nah it's not just you I've had that happen before everything feels too... "soft" regarding mistakes
10:58 - The minute they can copy A and S ranks to mimic standard we'll be in good hands but that'll take ages if it ever comes to fruition
13:30 - This I'll give them time for it's way better than anything we've had before
14:14 - Maybe inverting the DT mod color more the faster they go? Regular yellow/black > black/yellow?
Good vid
I can actually see that notelock concern actually being super legitimate. While more lenient notelock does generally feel better for most patterns, there are some more specific ones that I can see being an issue and feeling a little strange to hit for some players depending on how they personally like to hit said patterns.
I totally agree that the mod multipliers are messed up, especially the ordering of DT versus HDHR, but I want to add my reasoning for why I think your proposed solution of halving the bonus of HD isn't ideal. The problem is that the stable mod multipliers were designed with scorev1 in mind, where acc barely matters at all. Now that we have higher acc scaling in lazer score, differences in mod multiplier can be outweighed by small acc differences much more easily than they should, as you observed in the case of mrekk's #1 on united. That's why we need to increase mod multipliers overall not decrease them. This same problem was already addressed in scorev2, where HR was increased to 1.10x and DT to 1.20x.
Speaking as a catch main, difficulty adjust should not be rankable on the basis that it would completely destroy catch as a gamemode forever. There are certain maps where when playing converts, buzz sliders give an extreme amount of pp due to being spaced in such a way where you don’t need to move your plate at all. Thankfully there’s only 2 maps right now where that’s a legitimate problem but being able to engineer your own perfectly spaced buzz slider would utterly destroy catch.
As someone who recently switched to lazer fully, it’s in a pretty good state right now. I don’t think it’s entirely there yet but I’m at the point where the pros of playing on lazer versus stable outweigh the cons for me.
that's not the fault of the maps themselves though, it's the fault of the catch pp system awarding so much pp for these types of patterns. if these types of maps become more relevant, maybe it will actually motivate some people to fix the pp system for catch
@@ItzSaduI mean true. Catch pp is super messed up, but it’s really a small example of an obvious problem that would be created. You could break pretty much anything with difficulty adjust in an uncountable amount of ways that the game just isn’t really equipped to handle.
@@Nearigami not really unless i'm missing something. the only thing that could possibly break anything is buzzslider patterns becoming playable with cs adjust or potentially some more edge dash ez farm maps (amplified by ar0)? you can fix both by fixing the pp system, there's nothing truly problematic about this when it comes to the game itself and mostly just serves for regular players to play a map in a way they prefer (take most other rhythm games where you can set your scroll speed, something similar to this at the very least would be huge in catch when it comes to ar adjust)
+DA isn't rankable and it never will be. it also messes up the other rulesets as well. i def hope they nerf +EZ on ctb soon though
9:03 THIS, THIS RIGHT HERE as someone who has played lazer alot I have ran into this issue so many times and couldn't Tell if it was a me problem or not
2:47 That was a beautiful way of explaining that.
I pretty much agree with most points in this video, the only thing that I disagree with is your take on notelock. Lazer notelock to me makes the game play like it always should've, and in the example situation on Gaucho you kind of just played wrong if you tapped an extra time when you weren't supposed to. I've probably spent around half of my playtime on lazer since the pp release, but the biggest issue to me is that the leaderboards don't feel real at all and it still feels like you're not playing the same game as everyone else.
I switched to lazer a couple of weeks back and I do agree with you, but I’d add some more things:
1. Multi lobby is so different on lazer than stable, and not in a good way. Most of the times I did play with friends their profile was “Unknown” or “Undefined”, they also did not show up as online, while their appearance was set to online
2. Scoreboard Customisation is something I really want. I want to see what score and combo the person above me got while I play the map, instead of it disappearing and only showing profile pictures, and also changing the colors and opacity of the scoreboard would be great
Thats it thank you for reading
Literally the ONLY thing i want from osu as a whole rn is a practice mode, i wanna be able to: change mods including difficulty mod, RX, AP, Auto literally everything, change DT rate, skip or go back to a different part of the song, set checkpoints if i fail i go back there instead of the start, quickly retry and set my FL circle size
All MID-MAP at the cost of losing my score and i would switch over on the spot and i would not look back
Yup just like McOsu but on Lazer, would be revolutionary
One of things I'd love is creating diffs based on mod combinations, like a "save as difficulty" button. All good saving mod presets globally, but some maps work best with a specific combination
skin folders or something like that
yeah i mess with my skin folders wayyy too often for that to not be a feature
2:15 and 7:10 Removing/combining mods is hard because of tons of database and web stuff they'd have to redo. I know because the 10K+ mania community asked for removal of mania Co-Op mod, which is the source of most bugs with 10K+ mania in lazer, and is apparently only used by the 10K+ community, and only because it gives you a second set of keybinds for a given keycount(one with split stage and one without). Clayton, peppy and smoogi all agreed it brings a lot of non-intuitive unnecessary complexity, but the amount of effort necessary to undo years of this without losing scores is large enough that it would take people out of other priorities, especially since combining all the 1K-10K conversion mods may be required too.
Same with classic mod, multiplier makes even less sense for mania, but yet again, fixing it means tons of database/web stuff to redo.
EDIT: Apparently there is no "classic mod" in catch, the icon is just used to show the play was done in stable. Removed my point about catch.
13:30 Skinning on lazer is nowhere near complete and in some ways outright broken in mania. The best example is the percy longnote "fix". Want a non-square longnote end aligned to the bottom of the next note instead of the top? Broken. A gradient on your longnotes? Broken. Even percy that isn't EXACTLY 30,000 pixels high will look somewhat wrong. And the developers openly say they don't want to touch that code with a 100 foot pole ever again.
Not commenting on standard things because I don't play standard, but one thing I'd add is submitting maps from lazer editor.
They could totally combine mods in the UI but under the hood they're still individual mods. But that just seems like too small of a thing to really care about.
For me it’s a lot of the little things that aren’t in lazer that turn me off it. Not being able to sort by favourites, various annoyances when it comes to skins, most of the mods not being ranked among other random issues that I don’t really have when it comes to stable that keep me from switching over. Although I do think lazer is a great client overall, and most of my problems with it are either easy to fix or a product of me just being picky
6:38 after nerfing HD, 98% HDDT play will still be below HDHR SS. Most people agree that multipliers on lazer should be higher than on stable since due to acc importance harder mods are undervaluated if you get mediocre acc. HD multiplier is the only one that seems fine, but DT, FL and HR need a buff
Agree with Mr. completionist here, I'm losing number 1 scores with harder mods just because acc being lower than 98... really hate when I FC daily challenges with 1.2× over NM and don't get high enough acc to snipe the NM score...
i feel like lazer adoption might've been larger right now if it was catering towards tryhards first, and leaving casuals on second plan. catering to tryhard score farmers, top players, tourney players and mappers from the start. for fun eyecandy casual features way later on. because the casuals will naturally just follow the "elite" wherever they move to
I'm sad this video doesn't mention the osu! development roadmap, I'd love to see someone address/criticize how they've been handling which features are prioritized over others, and also the philosophy behind development more broadly.
Like, I have the feeling they should have a clearer goal in mind: making osu!stable feel exactly like a worse & less complete version of lazer. It still just feels too much like a different game to me. For instance, why experiment with unproven major changes to gameplay and leaderboards before everyone has already bought into the new platform? Perhaps because they aren't *that* confident about how receptive the playerbase will be towards these bigger changes, and they want to ease us into a somewhat different game with a somewhat different vision? I'm not a big fan of that.
It's possible that "not being adventurous" also means we don't get stuff like the current skin editor, like the diff adjust mod, like all of the cool shit in the editor, like round robin in multi, and so on
if the team hardline went for "stable but better" then we'd have to wait way longer for a lot the features that I, and probably others, became a reason to switch over. that's just a depressing way to live tbh
I think there's a balance to be had, and I personally feel like they're handling it well, although one huge miss for me is better skinning - tbh i'd take that over "real pp scores" even, but my prefs are minority af so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Because it's a top-to-bottom recreation, and for something like that, if you want to make really really big major changes you need to settle on them early and implement them into the foundation of the game. If you don't do this you'll end up with a spaghetti code-base like stable, exactly what's meant to be avoided, and you'll blindside players with these gargantuan changes well after they've settled into the new client. lazer isn't just meant to be a better, more complete version of stable. It's an entirely new codebase, and a full rewrite of the game that doesn't hinge on stable, bar the very basics of gameplay, at all.
As someone who completely switched to lazer years ago, I think lazer is a lot better for the casual player than for the competitive/serious player. The devs and contributors are working on improving other players' experiences, but things are a lot more complex than stable and there are a lot of cool new features being introduced as well. And it won't to be possible to satisfy every player coming from stable, especially players who don't want a lot of change.
4:42 I disagree with your point here, I can understand the consequences of that much freedom on a map but that does not make it impossible for it to work, we just have not reached to that point yet. Limiting mods like this would not help the game grow and evolve for the future.
something that I know for a fact won't get fixed, is the crazy input delay on lazer versus stable, on stable it's literally instantaneous but on lazer, it kinda, wobbles around, sometimes it's instant sometimes it's lazer fast (pun entirely intended) and the game appears to be running smooth, there's no skipping in frame rate at all but some how, in the exact same state switching between lazer and stable it seems that lazer just isn't up to par with stable response time, I even tried switching the render engine to opengl but that made it to where it's constantly having that little bit of input delay, but then I've gotta consistently click off rhythm to be on rhythm and it just hurts, so I'm remaining on stable until that's fixed, or rather, IF it gets fixed, if it's not then I'm just gonna keep the last stable version of osu backed up and just play on that
Making anime girls skins work in all menus (pause, failed, score etc)
At least i was able to add an anime girl to the song selection menu.
PD: 3:32 If you click the button that says adjust pitch at DT customisation , its lit the same as night core , you can even make it more night core or even make DT just like DayCore, so ye, on lazer nighcore and daycore are esentially just sitting there doing nothing useful at all
but sometimes Nightcore does that stupid drum shit
@@know_how_games Idk, i dont play nightcore i alr have enough problems with fceing no mods 4.5* maps..., but well, is that drum thingy important or its just like a extra sound bc why not Xd?
as a full time lazer main i agree with almost everything and hope your suggestions get added in. i think you’re wrong on notelock though, while i found it difficult to unlearn stable expectations, its since become second nature. i think you do misunderstand how notelock works a little on lazer (it actually does wiggle notes if you cant hit them in some circumstances) but its not a big deal
My thoughts about this, which are missing on lazer:
- There are still some small gameplay animation differences, for example kiai animation.
- The rewrite of audio on lazer is buggy for me, sometimes my audio delay/offset goes wrong and it makes lazer practically unplayable. Apprently it's resulted from libaries what lazer is using and apprently they can't do anything about it.
- Collections aren't as easy to use as on stable.
- and then ofc stuff that others have mentioned already (UI, skinning and more)
As someone who has made a custom skin, seeing that laser only supports the in-game interface is sad.
I want to customise as much of the UI as I can, just like in standard.
I think I'll switch to laser when that happens.
I switched to osu! Lazer back in February of this year (2024) and I've loved it. It was rather rough when i switched getting used to not note locking and the sudden frame drops that still haven't been completely evened out but theyre few and far between. being able to download maps and use the 1.2 or 1.3 speed feature on lazer instead of other clients like mcosu makes the game feel complete. After this new pp update I absolutely recommend switching to it and getting used to the new changes :)
Btw, I think you could just export/import the lazer skin to stable, do the changes, then reimport it to lazer.
Also, I saw someone that said you can export it from stable and rename it to a .zip file, do the changes, and change it back to the origional one (i think its .osz? or something like that),
Im not sure if that works, never tried it
I think the da mod can be ranked but just needs an algorithm for determining what gives more score and what looses score. An example would be if you increased the ar on a map on a map with ar 8.7 - 9.3 to ar 10 it actually just doesn’t increase any values or even decreases by a very small value but anything under ar 8.7 it decreases score and scales with how much the ar increase change is could work, this way it could work in the same way of lowering ar, as this would be a compromise on people who play ez but it rewards them instead of the big hit they get as they are still playing the same od, where u take a ar 9.8 map and make it ar7 or something it will reward u as the reading difficulty on the map increases
The other part of the da mod are all fine and self explanatory imo increase in cs should reward more just needs a strong curve on it where it doesn’t really reward much until something like cs6.72
And hp and od can follow in the same format
tldr: it’s rankable but just needs the right parameters
I've been exclusively playing on lazer for a couple years, and I've definitely had a lot of random misses on notes overlapping a slider for seemingly no reason at all
That and the skin editor are basically my only gripes right now
The problem for me is that I have a habit of doubletapping sliders, and if there is an overlapping note after the slider you often instantly miss when the slider ends. I can kind of stop doing it but it makes it so much more annoying to play anything fast where I can't consciously try to not doubletap sliders and I just miss constantly. Yeah it's a bad habit but quite a few top players do something similar, and it isn't a problem in stable. I know at least worst hr player does this sometimes.
I think a complete separation of Stable and Lazer's scores, rank, website, and pp system
It would also be cool to have Lazer exclusive ranked maps
I don't think difficulty adjust should ever be ranked based purely on the fact that that's not how the mapper mapped the song
by that logic we should delete every mode in the game? Though still DA probably would break the game so I don't want it to be ranked, don't think there is a way to properly balance it
Hard rock messes with circle size and accuracy too and even flips the map
by that logic hardrock shouldn't be ranked either
@@eienn It shouldn't be ranked indeed.
@@eienni think this is true and based
@@eienn DA is way way way different than any other ranked mode tho, any other mode is a set of difficulty adjustment, like how DT sped up time and HR make cs smaller and mirror, now how you gonna balance something like DA? OD adjust, AR adjust, CS, Health, yada yada you get it, i never see people explained how they would balance the mod so that it could be ranked, you could explained it tho.
Definitely the mod menu is way overwhelming. Like genuinely there needs to be a bteer way to lay it out to make it more condensed so that I dont feel like Im searching in a game of where's waldo to find a mod
this seems to be a subjective opinion, so i do agree they should continue to make the UI more customizable so everyone can configure things how they want
I agree with this and it's also my reasons I haven't switched yet. I have a lot of faith in the devs to make the best experience they can too.
Once they rank classic I’ll play lazer, I also would think it’d be cool to get the ability to toggle a more stable-like ui as I’ve gotten used to that one and it feels uncomfortable to navigate lazer
Difficulty adjust would actually be terrible for ranked ngl. It would just ruin too many purposeful mapping choices. AND THEY NEED TO ADD GROUPING FOR SONG SELECT MAN
the thing is, with difficulty adjust, i think it should still be ranked, but the mod wouldnt affect the leaderboard afaik, since it halfs the score multiplier. but i do get your point on how it'll affect pp. some people have been saying it shouldnt be ranked because thats not how the mapper created the map for the song, i dont think thats a good argument, the mod is good for replaying the map, like different mechanical skillset such as low and high ar reading, and the small and big circle size (lol)
also in song select star rating filters, it sorts by start rating before mods instead of after mods which can be inconvenient.
I think the Conversion mods should be seperately catergorized as Training (umranked) since it highly customizable and Fun mods could be implement directly into mapping (just an idea).
A lot of the new mods are overwhelming to me as a long time player (maybe cuz im eccentric). Theres to many to experiment with to find it "fun" with maps being mostly unique to one another. I just wanna hop into a map
lazer S rank works the same as stable now
The only reason i don't play lazer is because I'm a mouse player, and lazer just feels.. off. I still haven't found words to describe what it is, but it's almost like my aim is more floaty
Rate changes, cross-compatability with stable, and properly editing skin elements
If those are added or fixed then I'll switch ❤
custom rate ht/dt is already there. what do you mean by "cross-compatibility with stable"? also skin elements are VERY customizable now. you people just complain without even trying it out
@trustytrojan I meant by rate changes being ranked and actually gain pp
And for cross compatability i meant like multi-player lobbies can be played together never less what client you are on.
Lastly skin elements, I want to edit the hit circles without going to the stable client then change it there to import it back to lazer. I know there is a pull request for that and I'm waiting for that to be merged to upstream.
@@AquaPoki the editor changes will happen. but multiplayer with stable and ranked custom rate will never. multiplayer with stable requires the devs to rewrite basically all the stable code, which is already a mess. and ranking custom rate is gonna be a mess because it's going to be the most farmable mod causing unnecessary pp inflation, especially with the pp rework in place now
@@AquaPoki also skin elements were never editable in stable? idk what youre on buddy but i agree they should make any image-based elements editable in lazer, and they definitely will down the line
One point I almost can't believe you didn't mention is collections. I really don't like how collections are handled in lazer currently, it's way more tedious to switch between them and searching for a map across all collections is impossible
I hope the beatmap selection overhaul addresses this
as a mania player, mirror is already a rankable mod in stable in mania so i dont see why it shouldnt get ranked in standard
regarding notelock: I feel like lazer's take on note lock is a net positive still. you can fuck up stacks, but you also don't get penalized with like 7 additional misses because you overaimed a stream slightly, or any other fast pattern for that matter
lol i actually paused right before your suggestion to improve note lock, which actually sounds kinda pog. i'd be down for more note lock on denser patterns
Raising the classic mod multiplier to 0.97x won't be enough. I've gotten a few #1s on lazer, and every time I have to worry about whether it's a "fake" or "genuine" #1 because the 0.96x multiplier gives me way too much of an advantage. It would need to be something like 0.99x to feel fair on leaderboards, because the score differences there are quite small. Personally I think the most natural way to deal with this is take the accuracy that the player got on circles and assume that they hit sliderheads with that same accuracy. This would automatically account for maps with more or fewer sliders as well. It might overestimate some scores, but I doubt many leaderboard players actually hit sliderheads inaccurately compared to circles. Either way, it would be much better than how they're currently massively underestimated.
There should be an overhaul of lazer's gui or make an optional gui that has similar ideas as stable such the orange and pink color on song selection and mod section.
i always had this thought that peppy and the team made a massive mistake by going all out with new lazer features, they should have made a stable remake and go from there when its finished, that way they could have added features little by little to get more precise feedback, now that lazer is more played because of the PP thing, theres A LOT of people annoyed by a lot of things, multiple opinions and criticism flying arround, its just way more difficult to tackle every problem, if i was a dev for lazer, i would literally die from stress with everything they have to do
My notelock problem is that it's too lenient with consistently bad playing, like trying to deathstream and every 2nd hit is a 100 should gradually ramp up the notelock. I should be punished for that. Not just pass it with bad acc.
Bad acc is a punishment
I saw this being edited in real time guys you must believe me
For difficulty adjust I think you have a fair point that should be addressed upon. However, your point of pp abuse doesn't tend to the changing of AR. Because AR doesn't significantly affect pp like the other mods. And for a rhythm game one of the core adjustable elements is the AR\Scroll speed (and i really want to DTHR tbh).
My biggest thing is the hit accuracy bar being flipped on lazer and not being able to flip it back, when first swapping I kept overstreaming thinking that I was behind when I was not....
you can flip it back... just open the skin editor and hit "gameplay" and you can move/rotate the accuracy bar wherever you want
4:25 i dont think difficulty adjust will be ranked tho
The problem I'm having right now is raw input, I'm not able to get exclusive fullscreen on Lazer, so latency is being a problem for me
I know it would be clunky, but i think it would be really cool to easily see Difficulty adjust pp, scores, and leaderboards. It should definitely stay separate until its polished, but its such a cool mod :(
I have no problem with lazer apart from the too soft notelock system that when by accident i pressed two keys and it just missed both notes due to how soft the notelock is, although the approach circle was still far from the hit circle itself
Hey wait I saw that 727 reference. You can’t hide from me
Most of these takes don't feel like complaints that warrant not using the client since they dont effect gameplay (aside from your notelock issue), only the leaderboard and menu stuff. (which, you now have to deal with the leaderboard anyway even on stable because it doesnt change depending on client you run lol)
my take on things I want to see from osu:
AR should be set by the player and not be a part of PP calculations in any way. (i'd even love to see mappers be able to set AR multipliers for things like bpm changes).
OD should be a constant that's the same for every map in the game. (or atleast some formula that's based off the star rating or something, not mapper configurable)
I approve of the removal of combo scaling and think PP should correlate 1:1 to accuracy, not even considering misses at all (as misses would naturally decrease accuracy)
For me, if they make an option to make the song select ui the same as stable, and make it so that we can use our own tablet drivers, I would be willing to switch immediately
Tbh, I'm not sure if the tablet driver thing is just a me thing, but it forces me to use the built-in one when I play in lazer, and that's kind of annoying to set up compared to a downloaded one
i swear bro is secretly a taiko player and is selected the blue zenith 7.27 star difficulty
Difficulty Adjust should be a practice tool, so scores with DA on will not appear in the leaderboard.
It's fine for me. Relax and Autopilot actually appear on the leaderboard if you didn't know, but they only have a 0.10x multi so they don't do trouble. As long as the multiplier stays low I don't see a problem
While I don't really care about DA as a whole, AR adjust is long overdue as something that should be controlled by the player. This is the case in literally every rhythm game imaginable and std players have stockholm syndrome for wanting it any other way. It is fake difficulty at its worst, and as long as that becomes a thing with no serious penalties the rest of DA can be purely for practice (even though I believe it will be ranked after difficulty calculation is implemented in score submission).
UR Bar: Looks terrible (nearly unusable) and I have to resize it for *every* skin instead of just adjusting score meter in settings that affects all skins. Also shift+tab should not hide UR bar (or at least should be possible to hide everything except the UR bar)
it still has no option to disable the grid in the editor
ik it's dumb but i want an option have my skin's cursor in the menu
Peppy knows that people want that, he's mentioned it before. Not sure if they're working on that right now though
1.Yeah, some modes can be combined, but I don't think it's a big problem at current state.
2.Yeah, also had problem with finding customize mod button. Probably they shoud make this button more bright.
3.I can understand why you are so nervous about ranked difficulty adjust, but given Peppy's performance, we shouldn't worry about it in the next five years(like he would probably gonna spend half of year for making in-game pp leaderboard).
4.DT should be buffed. Try to change my opinion.
5.No buff for classic scores. I love sniping them.
6.IDK why people want ranked classic. I understand that it makes sense, but what about pp? Like lazer got pp boost in only last update, but I still think that most people prefer to farm with classic. Gonna accept ranked classic only if it's will give much less pp.
7.Not sure about mirror, peppy should discuss this with really good players.
8.Prefer how lazer work with notelock.
9.I don't like lazer's profile. The main problem, that it doen't have all web functions(like pinning scores). You can say, that it's not really big problem to visit website sometimes, and you will be right. But for me it's just feels really weirld to use osu's website after lazer experience.
10.Fully based about two separate environments.
As lazer player I just hope peppy will add dt modifires ranked, so I could have big pp boost(because I already play with these).
Also hope to see in future ppv1(or old ppv2) inspired leaderboard(this will be at least really funny)
DA not ranked = no thanks to lazer.
Thats about it. I have no issues with things being broken if it shakes up the meta. A major selling point of lazer is supposedly its fluidity in changing things around when needed compared to stable, but none of that shit is happening. Same with leaderboards. Granted I don't follow every single update because barely anything happens, but I was excited for this when this was still called osu!next so just fatigued from caring at all.
There is a plethora of other niche things that turn me off from lazer and even more things I could not give any valid opinion over (mapping).
EDIT: forgot to mention after 4885728 years we are finally getting CSR yippee, can't wait for the next 8 pages of lazer fun mods no one is going to touch until any other updates are considered.
I can't play lazer because I main EZ and every time more than four circles are on screen I drop so many frames that I can hardly play.
Stating OPINIONS not Gospel.
2:30 Approach different is not comparabe to deflate and grow, because there are no approach circles. Thats why its a separate mod.
Grow and Deflate COULD be combined, but they arent, probably because its easier to see which mod was used on a play on the selected mods menu instead of one having to hover on the mods to see which was used (how DT rates are shown rn would be how the devs would need to do those two if they were combined, which is just inconvinent if you already have a graphic to distinguish them)
3:30 nightcore being a different setting of DT is how it is on stable, people wouldnt be up and arms about it because nightcore is alr treated as DT but high pitch.
3:45 Perfect IS just a 100% cap on accuracy challenge. Though, It's *cool* to have it, because you don't need to hover over someone's accuracy challenge to see that they are restricted to 100%. Though Sudden Death is VERY different from both in what it wants to do, mainly because of the other gamemodes that are not osu! (were misses play a HUGE role on pp) or catchthebeat (were missing is the only way to lose acc)
4:30 If something is deemed overvalued in the pp system, the pp devs will nerf it. For example: they can make so changing the AR does not give more pp, only less pp in Difficulty Adjust, not Hard Rock, as HR also increases CS and HP drain.
5:30 ? That would be the most immediatelly changeable thing, like obviously +0.1 difficulty on everything wouldn't give 10 more pp on a map
5:40 Why have Difficulty Adjust ranked: *You don't need to wait for a mapper to map something of your type*, you can ppmax a map you alr have an FC on, or allow a map that is a little too difficult for one to get a lower misscount to be possible *without halving your pp and changin AR like EZ does*.
7:27 (forcing the meme, but not too forced) Osu! update announcers PPY and Pishy said that HDHR was supposed to be worth more score than DT only in all scenarios, which was once a quirk for only SS HDHR vs SS DT and extremely niche acc scenarios.
9:50 Unfortunate explanation as that sounds to a simpleton like me: "I'm having problems with finger control" skill issue. But secondarily, you shouldn't be able to hit a note through a slider before the slider ends.
The rest is Gucci.
For me lazer has started lagging hard during gameplay, and gameplay only. Idk why, but it is frustrating and stable runs smooth
I don't know how much of a hot topic this would be, but I think at this point DT should just become a "misc" mod of sorts, and literally just be called "Rate Change", allowing for 0.5-2x speed change and have a button to toggle pitch changes.
On other notes, I think DA SHOULD be ranked, on the basis that any AR/HP changes ALWAYS reduce score. OD/CS just makes maps plain harder or plain easier, so a system like how DT works would make sense.
Not really seeing your point about difficulty adjust tbh, it does already make it so the score doesnt give pp (it says unranked in the bottom right) and reduces score multiplier by 50 percent which is definitely a good amount to make it harder to get a good leaderboard spot with. Ive never seen them say that diff adjust should be ranked (only thing ive seen plans for is the rate change dt being ranked).
If im wrong let me know but i dont think diff adjust was ever planned to be ranked.
I think the stats screen is so hard to read at times with more busy colorful bg's
The DA complaints have pretty weak arguments IMO:
1) Score leaderboards. There are 2 potential solutions to DA in score. Either completely destroyed (like RX 0.1x or even lower). Or it will dynamically nuke score if there's possibility of removing gimmick.
For example - increasing CS will kinda work similar to DT/HT. Every .5 CS increase will award you with a bonus when lowering CS will nuke score.
HP will only affect score if you're decreasing it
OD - same as CS
And AR will decrease your score if you're changing it in any direction. I proposed -5% score for every 0.1 change in AR capping at -50%.
2) Pp leaderboards. Reading pp will reward playing with lower AR. And if even in this case all lb are filled with DA - this means that reading pp is just not big enough ).
3) Min maxing. The increasing CS by .1 is not gonna change anything. Like really, this is a difference of getting 2 less 100s. Increasing OD by .1 is even more laughable, as you will most likely decrease pp by doing this instead of increase. So doing this will just show your lack of understanding how things work.
I completely agree with this. The main problem with DA rn is that it would exaggerate flaws within the pp system. Although they are there rn, the amount by which it can be abused is minimal as it is completely dependent on which maps abuse those flaws. DA being ranked would mean that a lot more maps could be abused. DA should only be ranked when flaws like that within the pp system get ironed out
I dont think that the DA complaints were very weak arguments. Adjusting CS and OD to make a map slightly easier or harder for the sake of score or pp completely obscures the point of playing nomod. I don't think this is inheretly a bad thing but seeing either leaderboards or profiles with only DA in the future where it's ranked makes the game seem a bit too meta, in my opinion. As for AR, calculating pp for reading is hard enough as is because of skin cheesing and different peripherals; I think allowing users to adjust approach rate to their comfort almost diminishes the point of having reading pp because players will either do what's most comfortable or cheese the reading pp value in some way.
Additionally, I think one of the biggest complaints I have about difficulty adjust being ranked is it basically removing any point of ever using HR, EZ, NF since you can just adjust the values to be like them except make a certain aspect easier like changing HR's HP. Like I said about nomod, there isn't anything inheretly wrong about this, but it completely changes the Difficulty Adjust "Mod" into a completely meta-defining way players are forced to play the game to keep up with any meta regarding leaderboards and pp.
What I've said only scratches the surface of why DA shouldn't be ranked (which is probably also why Willy didnt explain in detail in the video either) and it is coming from someone with the extreme bias against it being ranked, but I think ranking difficulty adjust comes with extremely unfixible flaws that completely destroy the meta of the game.
@@jpluna001 you're a bit misunderstaing
DA isn't diminishing "the point of having reading pp" - it's doing literally the opposite
EZ players are just sitting here waiting the moment when they can properly play their skillset without being bound by EZ mod
@@XLGamer10 DA can't be ranked until serious abuse connected with it are fixed, this is correct
But the problem that Willy and most people who are against DA using the "abuse" argument as just an addition
They just against the idea of player being free to choose what exactly map they want to play
@@jpluna001 HR still have score advantage, so don't sure that removing HP is worth it (especially that HP above 7 is a lot more lenient in lazer, because HP in stable was pretty dog and HP10 is literally unplayable).
EZ is just very poorly designed mod and DA replacing it is not a bad thing but good thing. Reading players are waiting for the moment where they can push their skillset properly.
NF isn't even used for farming so it's not even worth discussing IMO
lack of Lazer UI customization in song select is what keeps me away
i love you willy
if osu!lazer was me then the answer would be her
i havent watched the video yet but i tried playing mania and i could NOT find a way to change the hitposition even though the one my skin had was horrible
Lowkey i play only lazer, im a casual, the only thing i miss from stable is the group by function when searching for maps. I used to sort on difficulty and group on rank achieved and now i cant :(
Apparently it is missing a dot in the logo
Im just hoping they fix the sensitivity issue. It seems to be different for lazer than how it is on osu so it fucks with my mouse memory lol
it's killing the history of the game, it could've easily been avoided but peppy is keen on destroying entire communities, I don't know why you're so optimistic about this out of all the people who could've been. Have you read chicken_10's me section? You could've been more of a voice for the problems. There won't be any historic #1s left after the switch to lazer happens.
Even score farming is getting hurt by the devs not bothering to make an accurate to stable scorev1 on lazer.
This is not getting into the fact that gaining pp will be incredibly easy now, way way easier than it's ever been, which ontop of hurting the history hurts the meta as well. The future was looking bleak for top pp scores without dt, and it will be entirely impossible after this switch. the suddenly higher pp plays that will come in vastly more quantity will not be because most top players improved overnight. I do not really care about this though.
It's honestly really sad that they don't care for entire communities and favor only a couple vastly. When the current state of the game lets every community exist, lazer's won't.
Adapting is not an option, we're basically forced this update by how they're knowingly pretty much making using stable a stupid choice because of how unfavorable it'll be (which they'll justify its lack of development and ultimate demise with). For leaderboards they are merging, you won't be able to ignore it when #1s will be getting sniped left and right, and the history of the game will die. Please go and see galaxy collapse leaderboard and how the top of the leaderboard is dominated by 6 digits playing it at 0.5 speed, a map that obviously is 100% definitively surely positively 100000000% meant for only top players to be able to get any meaningful score on, but beginners are able to snipe legendary scores on it. And no, this problem will never be solved, they cannot balance a couple mods, they won't balance the random ass 30 mods they're adding, even if they do, it'll make the historical relevance of the game die. for 16 years this game has had a set number of mods, the same amount of score they give etc. 16 years, I bet that's older than most of the kids who are happy about these changes.
i agree with a lot of this. most of the fun mods shouldn't show up on leaderboards (or have a lower multiplier), difficulty adjust should be completely unranked, and slider accuracy (+ classic mod) should have never been introduced. osu!lazer muddies the leaderboards with these issues, and classic mod having a 0.96x multiplier is pretty much a middle finger to stable players that their scores don't matter anymore
I agree that difficulty adjust should not be ranked
I agree with the note lock thing
I agree with most of the video. Except for difficulty adjust. I think it should be ranked.
Also sorting multiplayer lobbies by size!
it can be ranked for pp but at least for score it should have a debuff no matter the changes.
difficulty adjust breaks a lot of map creators' vision for the song, mostly for reading maps
@@ChaosEater39its already 0.5x which is fine
@@KneeCutterso does hard rock since it flips the shit upside down
@@powerplayer75 yep
You made some great points, but I want to ask you WIlly
What do you think about rate change getting ranked? Will it break anything or is it something that should have happened long ago?
rate change being ranked is a horrible idea.
pp records will just be 0.01x increments on farm maps
you can learn 100 short maps with fl and then jsut rate change them higher and higher
all stream maps can be made to any bpm and are therefore all the same basically
bad idea.
main reason im not playing lazer: mania is unplayable on lazer and no changes are happening for it
Personally I thhink that every map (maybe without some mods) should be ranked, including diff. adjustment mod. It being unranked is just an excuse for the terrible pp system. The truth is meta will always exist so why not make everything farmable? I just agree with min. map length requirement so it requires some level of consistency but again i think it still is fixable with better pp aystem.
Imo most of the issues you have have are bc lazer isn't out now and some other preferences, some i agree with and some don't. And tbf even if lazer has been in development for years now it's still has a long way to go.
there are a lot of quality of life features that could be added in lazer and a lot of people would want many different things but you can't always follows everyone like opinion or thoughts, you might be one of only like maybe hundreds of people who are not happy with some changes and i'm not saying you're wrong or anything ; all i'm saying is that you can't satisfy everyone with dissapointing someone else.
5:02 don’t make me say it
I'm not sure if I'm the only person thinking it would be a nice addition to lazer, but please remove dying from the game, as gameplay interruption. Ever since switching my playstyle I have been playing with nofail pretty much all the time because I just want to finish the map. Why not make it like in multiplayer: hp goes to 0 - the score is not submitted to the server, retry if you want, or finish the map. Wanna submit the score anyways? Use nofail. Who loses from this change?
i have huge performance issues in Lazer that i cant seem to get rid off
Mouse polling rate capped to 1k on lazer :p
good
since 2021 waiting for song select to be fixed...