You are exactly on point and exactly RIGHT! Too many people want the easy way instead of the correct way. I don't want my home automation on a outside server either but am having a hard time locating anything. I am will to build it myself too and probably will end up building my own.
When will people learn that WIFI is honestly not as good as it may seem? You still have to power the device, deal with reception, security issues, and a whole mess of headaches that come with the territory. Wifi can be helpful for some devices but wired connections are always better if available.
Just try living with simple wifi light bulbs like hue of yi lights. Brilliant untill they can't conect. Frustrating when they bork for ten mins for no reason.
For secure wired lines, they need to be monitored with EOL (End of Line) resistors or diodes or other protection for short or open circuit accidents or tampering.
Not to mention trying to make sure that all the devices placed in weird places around your house could easily be blocked or interrupted by anything between the wireless source and the device.
I couldn't agree more. People get excited when they learn to use anything - especially when they can start parsing out data (that's when it starts becoming useful)... Then they figure they've become experts and start telling people how to do stuff based on what they've just learned. Thanks Mr. Oxer :) P.S. Love the cameos with EEVBlog and The Amp Hour. Oh, and one shirt one take! Sweet!
Thanks for setting us straight again Jon. Surely someone has an open source protocol (not C-bus) that can handle multiple switches, pots, capacitive sensors etc. running over RS485. BTW, Boian Mitov is doing some great stuff for Modbus with Visuino.
I couldn't agree more. I installed a KNX/EIB solution when we did a total renovation. It's old and antiquated, and requires a powered bus cable running everywhere; But it is 100% stable. And it is a proven standard, so you can integrate it with anything.
Now you mentioned the sonoff, and that can be a really good solution also for switches since you can wire a switch to it that will still work if you lose internet connection. Especially if you don't have the option to retrofit. Btw you are right about the running out of client connections on access points, but that is no different than running out of plugs for ethernet cables in a wired system
I would love to hard wire everything but my house is wired in not so easy way and channels are not going everywhere. Wires for switches are cemented in and in the ceiling are channels but they are full or they just stop somewhere. Thats why i will have to do a central location in the attic for sonoff swithes and only run lead wires to existing leads from switches. It will still be a lot of work with lifting isolation and putting channels in but it's much cheaper and easier than destroying the walls
Spot on. One of my friends is building and is interested in home automation. Told him to wire up. Ethernet, speaker wires, the works. Marginally higher cost when roughing in. I think a lot of the arguments pro wireless and against wired is driven by cost only. When retrofitting wires you have potentially high cost due to the building structure and sometimes need external help. At the moment I'm putting in PoE cameras and it's a pain to have theses cable runs. Lastly a lot of it is driven by clever marketing. Plug it in, connect to wireless and in 5 mins you can see who's at the front door... tempting
I think coax for cameras is a bit old, PoE is the go, but never wireless. Re wireless, first thing that comes to mind for me is 'What if i change the SSID and/or password?' Then you need to dig up every ESP in the house and dump new code on it!
i 99% agree with you there, but you missed out an important part, and that is that hard wiring cant always be done cheaply... especially not in a rental. Im renting and cant just hard wire my blinds into the wall, and have to rely on ESP modules run off 5V phone charger as thats as good as i can get it for now. I agree that if you can hard wire, its the way to go, and a single point of upgrades and maintanance is a HUGE cost and time saver if possible. I like the videos, keep them coming :D
In many situations wireless is the correct solution to the problem. I use it a lot myself. The problem I have is with people who tell me I shouldn't have hard-wired, because it would have been better to use WiFi for some reason they can't explain :-)
Too right. In a fixed installation, cables to everything possible is the best way to go. For those who can't get at the wiring in the walls - perhaps you can access the wiring in your roof spaces? If so you can do what I'm doing in my house which is to connect the conventional switches to the home automation controller as inputs - thus you don't need to change the wiring in the walls.
Wifi advantages: 1. cost: endpoints can be made for cheaper than a 20m cat6 run. 2. portable: you can move your things when you move, ideal for apt dwellers 3. legal: running in-wall wires requires code compliance; wifi: notsomuch. 4. capacity: one cheap hotspot can serve 100+ nodes: a 100-port hub is $$$ 5. flexibility: network topology can be changed from an armchair instead of crawlspace 6. compatibility: i can give a friend a wifi switch, but how many have cat6 pre-wired? 7. redundancy: if one hub goes down, wifi nodes can re-route to a 2nd router: beat that cat6!
All good and valid points. I'm not against WiFi. I use it extensively, and it's very useful when it's the best solution for the specific circumstances. But it's not ALWAYS the solution, which many people seem to think.
I agree. If I ever build my own house I'm going to rout the mains power to every outlet and built-in light to a single "power" room. That room will have the breaker box so that all circuits can be wired right in there. The missing part to this scheme is a modular way to terminate all these circuits to the breakers with a place that would let me add automation to each one individually. I'd also add low voltage wiring to each switch position in the house back into the power room. The low tech version would then let some kind of low voltage switch at the wall position to control a relay in the power room to control the power to each light fixture and every mains power outlet. I have found all of this hardware available "off-the-shelf" at one place or another, many intended for industrial usage. But this whole idea is to make it easy to change the power control hardware as I experiment and not have to rewire anything after the wallboard has been installed. Of course I'd put in Ethernet wiring to every room too, but that goes without saying, doesn't it?
Excellent points! It all depends on what one needs. Anything critical, or even rather important, must be hard wired. For me, a switch for the hallway light doesn't fall into that category. If an attacker has a deauther to kill wifi, they may also have a cell jammer and would probably kill the power and internet/phone wires. Notification would be an issue then. It all comes down to proper risk management.
Exactly! My point is that the solution should be appropriate to the problem. This video is a response to all the people who tell me that I *shouldn't* have put in cable because WiFi would be better. Sometimes WiFi (or other RF) is the best solution, but not always.
As an ex Navy cryptologist and a security system pen tester for over 25 years (the last many years on the internet) this is the first time I have come across sensible, balanced and reasoned advice about the limitations and advantages of wired and wireless based security systems. They both have a place and they both have limitations. I have been out to sites where someone has run 12 VDC feeds to an 8 camera wireless cctv system for example. The client cant understand why the 8 cameras running at 1080p 25 FPS keep locking up, dropping frames and the wifi network is performing like a Acoustic coupled modem at 300 baud !!! Not only do you have to explain why you could fry an egg on the router / access point you have try and reason out why the installer didn't just run cat 6 with POE and plug into that very convenient port marked LAN on the back of each camera. Not only has the original installer left a complete mess behind he has actually made himself ten times the amount of work. This is not even bringing into the question the entire systems vulnerability. I get asked why my report to the insurance company rates building security as poor. Now you have to explain why and deal with a very annoyed customer that just paid a fortune for his CCTV, and yes you guessed right in that the alarm system is a DIY grade unsupervised radio system has been fitted to. It is a great shame that time and time again I find that people do not take security seriously until they have been burgled and lost not only property but a feeling of being secure, that's something that can be hard to replace and sometimes impossible. I really do hope that your advice is listened to and saves a lot of upset as it normally takes an unpleasant incident to occur before that happens ! A great informative and factual video Jonathan :) Nice one !!!!!!!!!!
I've built a home automation system using ESP8266, uses UDP with redundant resends. It works much better than I expected. I will agree with you that wired is better, I needed power to the units so I end up having to at least cable the devices to power. It was however very cheap! Some of it I built with the SONOFF range of modules, these are ideal for re-purposing rather than make it all from scratch. From a security view wired will always be more secure, even though I wrote all the code I still have to trust the closed source binary blobs involved, you can never be sure, then again I don't trust windows or Macos for the exactly the same reason and plenty of people who bang on about security sit in front of that while they do it....
Not really all my phones Blackberry, Andorid and Windows phones are all wired! Besides you have bluetooth but neither wifi or bluetooth are that great or reliable or fully functional!
Totally agree. One big problem with wireless switches etc is they still need power so you end up using a cable anyway. To keep cost down (10 years ago) I started by using RS485 over telephone cable with two cores for power and two for signal. I have switched to CAN bus recently as the modules can now be purchased very cheaply and it supports more devices much more reliably but still uses the same telephone cable. It also doesn’t require switches or routers etc and can be daisy chained between controllers, keeping wiring and cost down to a minimum.
Both RS485 and CAN are great solutions. You may have seen I did an episode about LIN for controlling window motors, which is like a simplified single-master version of CAN. The nice thing is that with the cables in place, you could swap from RS485 to CAN with minimal effort.
It's a lot easier to run wires if you house is made of plywood but here in Europe most houses are made of brick. Luckily I have a attic so I can run wires easier but I still need to make channels for light switches.
I totally agree. All you have to do is think of how many phones have become bricks because you can't use them with systems anymore. But wait, we had lan lines for 100 years using the same phones switches and wires. On top of that, I can't tell you how often I have to reset the router, the TV, the tablet because some glitch in the WiFi connection is off. Imagine having to do this with your home automation. WiFi connections are just not stable enough to rely on for critical applications.
I completely agree that wires always offer better reliability. It's not as hard as the do-it-yourselfer might think to run Cat5 or Cat6 cable around your house with the proper tools like fiberglass rods to get in between walls. If you're building a new home it is much easier and I would consider only using cat 7. And if you can't get copper to a particular location then use Wi-Fi.
This video is still current today! I am building a new house with automation (but without traditional light switches) with cameras, PIRs, Presence, and other sensors all wired. Thank you for a clam and unemotional presentation; I hope it 'talks' sense into some.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does someone know of a way to get back into an instagram account..? I was stupid forgot the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Zahir Russell thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and Im in the hacking process atm. I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
100% agree with Jono. Bloody shame that Oz is so backward with authorisations to self wire your own home. The Kiwis can do it and they even publish awesome guides and standards. Only good thing about ACMA is that you should only be able to buy certified CAT cable in Oz.
Depends on the state. In QLD at least, the idea behind self-wiring ethernet being illegal is just a wives' tale spread by bullshit artists. The closest the law ever gets is saying connections to telecommunications networks, which does NOT include local ethernet. There are so many AV installers out there that aren't certified electricians, take that for context.
I tend to agree. Of course often there is little choice. I have chased a couple of walls in my time to not want to have to do that around my house. (UK most houses are still mostly brick). Running cables is really only an option if you are building your own house. I would also worry about what new owners would think when coming to sell your home. I would expect you would have to pay an electrician to rewire a traditional system.
Yes, wireless can be the only solution (or the easiest solution) sometimes. The important thing is to use the best solution for the problem at hand :-)
I like your ideas I don't think the light in-the-house going to be a problem security cameras security lights hard wire, yes u can use power over wifi hock up battery backup I like your videos and good see Ozzy doing cool stuff keep up good work
Another great video. If I have ever pulled the "why not just use WiFi" card, I am sorry. I know my chief question in home automation regarding wireless has been finding something that works with existing wiring as a mechanical switch with a wireless options. ie flip a switch on the wall OR use your phone. I know they have z-wave switches. My problem is z-wave and zigbee seem to be part of the 2.4GHz band as I understand it. That just seems like it would muddy the band, being that I already have WiFi (2.4GHz and 5GHz) with no less that 15 devices on 2.4GHz. My first project is going to be a multi sensor and controller for my garage. The idea is to read temp/humidity, light, motion, and for the doors a ma-switch in the garage to tell if the doors are open or closes and a relay to short the two wires that sends the open/close command to my garage door opener. The mechanical switch just shorts out two wires momentarily to open/close the door so a relay should work as well. I've been spinning my wheels on this project trying to decide on wifi or z-wave. Maybe I should just run wire...
100% decent wire (not the cheapest possible) that's been installed well is the way to go. RS232, 485, dry contacts, etc, still have their place and SCADA (commercial) and all its modern implementations still work on basic principles. Fibre is good for very long runs (not usually needed in residential) but also higher cost, more points of failure, converters, need to secure infrastructure and provide more backup power, cover all what-if scenarios. Wireless is handy as an option, but always best to use wired for the core of any install and when it has to work reliably in all possible conditions. Ongoing firmware updates (if available), products and standards no longer being supported and security risks of IoT also a reality.
In our house (which we own) it is completely impossible to re-do the wiring which would be an absolute must to get ethernet or just any new wire into the light switches. The house was made from bricks and even the electrical wiring is in the wall directly beneath the plastering spread like fishing nets or spider webs. There is no reliable cable plan and the house was built about thirty five years ago. My best option to get around using the pesky wireless - which I would love to do - would be to go for power-lan technology. I've been looking for viable products but haven't found anything affordable. I would pay up to 10 to 15 times as much as for a comparable esp8266 module but either my google-skills are just not up to the task or there is no usable technology out there. My personal favourite would be to open all the walls, re-do the wiring completely, add low power, high voltage and ethernet to any socket, no matter if for mains or an outlet or a switch but that won't go well with the misses - that's for certain. After all we also have to live here and currently I'm pondering to get ethernet wired into the upper floor via the outside walls ... Oh my - what would I give for accessible hollow American wooden walls ... Anyways - great show as always. Cheers! JM
Thanks JM! Yes, retrofitting cable can be a horrible job with solid walls. In many cases it's just not possible at all, so wireless is the only solution.
SuperHouseTV For me is the same story... I bought house with standard existing electric wiring and bricks wall. I'am going to place sonoff with tasmota firmware and control all this via mqtt with homeassistant wirelessly. I think is the best solution for our case. I hope all going to works well. Have you some advice for our situation?
I built our house 15 years ago, and ran a lot of cat6, but not to a lot of the core functions (switches, lamps etc). Retrofitting would be a very expensive project in several places. My plan is to use wireless devices that default to "traditional" operation, like the sonoff that controls power locally, but can also be remotely controlled and report state back to the core. WiFi and RF isn't "critical path" for function, but allows for additional control and monitoring.
I found this and a few other similar things but the price is just so far off of the PoE solutions your company provided and also of what I can build based on an ESP myself - even powered through 220V AC all behind a switch including a one or two channel relay ... it just doesn't make sense to implement anything based on that solution - plus it is completely closed source: www.evw-24.de/INPROJAL-Nero-II-Schaltmodul-16-A-UP?googlede=1 I am wondering if coming up with an open hardware / open source powerline/power-lan module featuring one relay, some IO, 3.3V DC power and maybe a heat sensor could be brought to the market for less than $15 in bulk ... If there was anything like the Sonoff for power-lan/powerline instead of wifi I would replace all my light switches at $10 to $15 each without even blinking at the investment. Should read up on specs how many devices can work reliably together in such an environment, though. Cheers! JM
In italy if you put high voltage, low power and ethernet in the same socket you probably go to jail. I've made low voltage circuit for switches and it was a total pain everythigs need to be in a different tube.
I thought about that. So I decided to hard wire all lights and shutters motors into the fuse box and use relays, which my home automation system then can control. However for flexbility and not having to break open all my walls I decided to use cheap 433 MHz light switches, the power is generated by the button press so no need for a battery.
Obviously, as various folks have pointed out, it's often not possible to wire. But, it also doesn't come down to either wired or Wifi. Using a dedicated wireless protocol is still better than using Wifi in most cases. So Zigbee as a non-proprietary example, or Lutron's Caseta or Radio RA2 for good proprietary examples. Wifi just isn't well suited for automation except in some special cases. It's good for touch screen clients of course, and for things that have too high data rate requirements for standards like the ones above, which are targeted towards the needs of lower data rate devices. Wifi just wins because it's the default. If Joe Blow Corp decides to make some widget, he chooses Wifi because he knows it's already there and it's retrofit friendly. So we get all of these Wifi based devices, whether its optimal or not. And of course Joe Blow Corp probably didn't hire a top security expert, so the 'Smart Toe Jam Remover' device you bought from him becomes a Trojan Horse on your network and/or a DDOS bot, because it's a network enabled device. That isn't an issue with Zigbee or other proprietary wireless devices. And of course a lot of people these days assume that wired means network, when it has traditionally often meant a serial cable. A lot of people might scoff at serial connections as old fashioned. But, in a world of security nightmares, they make a lot of sense for a lot of devices. It's a point to point connection that is not shared, so it can't be hacked. And it lets you control the device but would never allow the device to get to either the controlling computer or any other devices in the home. It worked well for decades and it still does, and maybe make more sense now than ever.
I could not agree more. Especially find of keeping high volume traffic like audio/video streamers off the wifi. This step alone improves the situation a lot.
It's not always possible to wire but when it is, it's the best and simplest method... Having said that, I would be tempted to change from Arduino to ESP32 devices and add redundancy (wire and WiFi) and of course I would not have issues with batteries etc...
Lots of good points here, and I agree with them all. However, I kept waiting for a "..and look at these Freetronics cables that are on sale today!" That would have been hilarious!
I thought the same thing, I started to comment and you kept covering what I was about to type. I also thought about having to change the wifi key, what a pain that would be for those people who didn't prepare for that and hard coded their keys. You could run PoE and not have to worry about plugging in in areas and easier to cycle a device that may be within a wall from the PoE source or within nodered etc.
I totally agree with you about wire, in my house I've wired all switches and now the light are controlled by a siemens s7 (totally horrible) and realys... but what if I want to sell my house?... I can remove the system and replace all with step relay in a couple of hours. I hope that sonoff or others add to their systems some like 4ch but with wired inputs for switches. When it happend I will probably buy a lot of them and get rid of the PLC ... as soon as I flash the firmware and hook them to a openhab system. I think that your work, and your way to do will became THE way to do in the future. (IMHO)
I'm so glad I discovered your videos highlighting doing wired home automation. Wifi is not the best way to go in my opinion. Wired is lot lest headache, and you don't need to worry about vulnerabilities.
Agreed on critical systems probably shouldn't be wireless. One of my project ideas was a WiFi thermostat that would read from WiFi thermometers around the house. Each thermometer would have a "set master" button for if i want the furnace to control the temp in that room instead of the set schedule. One of the main features is a standalone mode which it will failsafe into if the network goes down. I have been working on switching my cameras from WiFi to Ethernet, not because i am concerned about a burglar jamming them, but because if the power goes out, i don't want to be the only person with WiFi. Added benefit on using PoE is managing a central large battery bank instead of multiple small ones. No sense having cameras operational while the DVR is dead, or having the DVR running, recording nothing but "no signal since xxxxxxxx"
better if you still have wire, if there are instances that internet or cloud is down, you cant turn on the device. However, one other way to solve this issue is to use dual-frequency devices like that can be controlled by 433 MHz kinetic switches which even if cloud or internet is down you can still turn it on or off.
Thanks for your home automation videos, I really enjoy seeing what can be done. I also agree about WiFi, it’s nice and easy, but probably not the best decision long-term. However, for someone like me, if I wanted to retrofit my house, running cables to all of the switches, or installing controllers at the switchbox and then re-cabling the lights and certain power-points would be a massive project. However, if I could use something like a Seneors switch actually located at the light switch or Power Point, I could then just replace the existing switch with a button. Yes, I know that I still need to find a way of getting my control signal to the Soft-Switch, but could “Ethernet over Power” be used for this? I was just thinking the Power lines are already installed and if an “Ethernet over Power” system could be incorporated into the Soft-Switch (e.g. Seneors), that should make it much easier to install, while still having a secure network. What are your thoughts on using “Ethernet over Power” to control home automation?
There is a difference putting together a switch or two for the kicks vs designing a whole house automation system where critical systems relying on. Wifi switch is a good crowd pleaser, but as Jon says nothing beats the good old wired connection full stop. At Least wifi is not there just yet.
Been dabbling with home control for over 15 years now. On my second system now. It’s very interesting to hear of your experiences over the years. Was particularly interesting the hear your thoughts on presents detection and failover. Have been working on presents detection, using PIR, BT, WiFi, microwave etc, combining two or more to give better reliability, haven’t succeed yet though. Also been working on fast auto fault recover, will never get to 100% reliability but hopeful close. Keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next video.
I totally agree with you regarding wireless vs wired. The trend of switching to wireless for everything bugs me. People don't seem to look ahead to the future, even if you set aside all the problems you cover in this video, there is still the major problem of a massive increase in EM noise that will undoubtedly cause unforeseen problems in the near future. Personally however I wouldn't even use WiFi for most smart home things needing wireless. I would use something like nrf24 instead, and then only use wifi where I need to bridge to IP networks. Using an esp8266 is much easier granted, but WiFi isn't the most efficient of protocols. It's unnecessarily noisy for most smarthome tasks and wastes a lot of energy doing nothing. NRF24 modules can be made to consume very little energy when you only put them into transmit mode on demand, and spend the rest of the time in receive mode. In a notification based system, devices should be spending most of their time in receive mode anyway. They should only be transmitting when there's an event or a request to respond to.
Yes, very good points. Because you can't see radio signals, many people don't understand that you can't just keep adding wireless devices in a small area. The spectrum is a shared resource. I was working at a customer's apartment in the center of Melbourne recently, and my laptop could see about 60 access points! As you say, even if you use wireless it doesn't always need to be WiFi. Many times just a simple ASK / OOK transmission on an ISM band is the best solution. I do that too, and I've been working on a couple of videos related to intercepting and decoding signals from devices that use 433MHz comms. I've done it with a weather station, domestic power meters, motion detectors, (!), and currently working on a tank depth sensor project.
I would love to add the wired buttons throughout the house. My only issue is the wife's one rule: "if the internet goes down, or the controller fails the light switches still need to work". Trying to find a way to have my cake and eat it too is stressful. The ESP8266's make this simple since I can use normally open closed portion of the relays to make sure if the system shuts down, the lights still work. I'm always open to ideas for new projects! Edit: Having thought about for a few mins. I can just run the wire to the relay instead of directly to the switch. Problem solved.
Benjamin H you could also put a UPS on the controller and poe switch. Then setup a cluster of controllers that use a secondary shared IP with something like heartbeat. You'll have redundancies for them that way.
Benjamin H Heartbeat is a Linux software that is used for server clusters. The relevant piece is that the software tracks both cluster members and decides which one is currently using the shared IP. You'd need to either sync the two mqtt databases or decide it is okay for them to be out of sync. This could also be handy for updates since you could update one while the other is active. (Granted, this is all theory in my head, but based on things I do in my day job.)
Actually if the power is turned off (by a thief), then that will bring down everything, including wired networks to a grinding halt. No need to find a jammer or EMP device. Surprisingly enough, almost all houses in Australia has main breakers in the meter box on outside wall, un-locked, inviting anybody to tamper with. Upon request, the utility company provides a lock at a cost (around $70). Nobody (including me) seems bothered doing that. However, it is not smart to put your own lock, since it will yield the meter box un accessible by the meter-reader.
I would suggest having a current sensor for alerting power-outages, if your UPS does not support easy interfacing. Better you may have another current sensor (current-transformer type) mounted on the incoming lead to the meter box, behind the back panel. A licenced electrician is needed to do this legally though. This would help determine if the outside breaker is maliciously dropped.
Just as as note. If I am not mistaken many planes do in fact use fly by wire to control critical controls on the plane. The throttle on many cars are wireless. But I agree a wired system is more reliable.
I have to agree with JM Tosses below, for a house with existing 240v mains wiring a Powerline Ethernet device at each location is a possible answer. however, they are expensive and can be bulky.
I used to work at a computer shop and those Powerline adapters came back regularly with issues. Didn't matter which brand or type. So like JM says: think longterm, go cable :).
Great video as always. I HATE Wi-Fi with a passion. Here in the UK I’m currently battling with running Sky Tv new “SkyQ” system that uses Wi-Fi and in my house is just crap. It also interferes with my house Wi-Fi. So I’m currently still trying to complete cat 6 all around the house and will only use Wi-Fi for my iPhone.
I couldn't agree more with that statement. I'm "darn happy" I'm oldfashion, if using wires gives you that kind of label... So far, I'm not using any wifi connection in my home automation system. Maybe I will in the future, but chances are low. I've foreseen cables (some of them, well, lots of them in fact..., still waiting to be connected) on every possible location where I think I will need one. And yes, should I have overlooked a place, then chances are I will use wifi, but only as an "emergency way-out"...
I would, in any case where it's possible, use a wire. Unfortunately, in a rented home, where you can't just drill a hole in the ceiling to run cables along the attic, or run cables inside the walls to all the light switches, and (of course) you don't want a home where there's ethernet cables, visible, along every corner in the room, then WiFi is kinda the only solution. But besides that, I would ALWAYS run cables to anything I possibly can. I am lucky that all my Internet comes into the house and ends up in a closet in my entré. And there's already a hole in the top of it, where they ran some other cables, so I can hardwire motion sensors in the entré, and to the camera. I can also add all my network equipment (routers, servers and so on) in there, so it's all hard wires. And the house I rent is fairly new, so there's ethernet outlets in all rooms (except the entré and bathroom).. So I can also create small "hubs" in the different rooms, with a switch, if I wanted to. But stuff like temperature/humidity sensors and other "nice to have"-devices, are wireless in my home!
Run Conduit. Empty tube technology will never be obsolete. I am a WIRES kind of guy too. However Z-Wave, especially the 700 series (not connected directly to the internet) is better than wifi for many smart home applications.
I'm going to keep a link to this video handy for the next time someone suggests using an ESP8266 for my HA projects ;) I feel the same about wireless. Why use wireless, when I can use wires! Good aviation analogy by the way! (Although I just read the comments; clearly not everyone agrees with that. They miss the point, in my opinion...)
I had asked in an earlier comment how does your litte wired push button turn on the light when your centralized controller goes south, and it will in the middle of the night. I use wireless devices but each must have local control at the device as well IE; sonoff, z-wave and tp-link. Each has a local manual button that controls the device. I can take my home controler and throw it out the window and still turn on my lights etc.
Yes, combining local and system control is the ideal architecture. I do that too. In a previous episode (I think it was "6 Sonoff Secrets") I showed use of a local button to control a Sonoff while its state is also updated in a centralised controller such as OpenHAB.
They are probably talking about *if you already have mains wired in*. If I had to do this, probably would consider using ESP or some powerline stuff, because the cable is already in place. So with their point is there is no cableing work. (At least we have both netural and live in the switches). If I had to do it from the beginning, your solution makes sense. But still a mains psu is "very complicated", I'd rather build some low voltage whatever because those LM2596 based stuff are so cheap and easy and safe. But that is for things, where I need local logic (IDK for what. Maybe some "smart display", etc)
I agree that wires are more reliable but it's easier to connect to existing power line in the room (instead of using battery) then run new wires to single plase in house which can be 100 ft away.
No. Wi-Fi is meant for comfort.. not reliability. Wireless signals can get really clogged up at times when people get home from work and start watching youtube videos and stuff. For an example, I cannot use WiFi anymore at 6pm because all of the wireless channels are crowded all of the sudden. Now you wouldn't want that to happen in a home automation system where you click a light switch and the light for some reason doesn't turn on because A: The light switch cannot talk to the access point . or B: The receiving end for the relay can't talk to the access point anymore. There are more examples: - Motion sensors won't be triggered because wireless error or disassociation... ( Means you gotta reboot the damn thing and in the worst case scenario your place will be robbed without the alarm even triggering.) and so on.
I still use and prefer wired LANs for normal devices such as PC's and printers in my home rather than WiFi. I still have WiFi for portable stuff but wired is so much easier and more reliable when it comes to setup and especially trouble shooting. WiFi adds complexity and there are already enough things contending for bandwidth in the available air space as it is. You can run a 100M CAT6 cable and know you are going to get your data out of the other end, to do that with WiFi is more of a challenge. In this case as you have to provide power to everything anyway, it makes sense to run the data cables with power too. Otherwise you have to provide separate power supplies all over the place which is a nightmare in itself then the issue of adequate wignal strength back to the main system, probably requiring WiFi repeaters or additional wired access points, addinh yet more links in the chain that could fail.
I went with WiFi for cost, currently have about 50 things on one 5-year-old router, and have had no lag, drop-outs or other interruptions. Maybe i'm just really lucky, or maybe wifi aint so bad these days. I can see the argument for inputs like switches, which need standby power, but outputs like lamps already have power, which makes setup a breeze.
I'm still thinking of running a 12 volt rail throughout the house and have some step down regulators. The advantage of that... 1 only 2 wires with power , 2 Good router will save the day ( maby get a dedicated one for the automation task like the server ) 3 much easier to set up ( don't have to deal with all the wiring ) 4 PROBLEMS misscommunications errors or fails will keep you busy. If you make something from nothing and it works you loose interest and you say " it just works forget about it" THIS IS NOT OUR MIND ! If we want to learn and evolve on anything we do it the hard way ! I use HTTP and GET, POST, PHP is great on notifications and IF THIS DO THAT not MQTT. Bring yourself beyond and get better at anything.
+SuperHouseTV, I was thinking after your last video, in hindsight if you knew your switches weren't going to be IP based, would you have run different cable?
Great question. I think I would still have used UTP, but ideally I should have used the much more expensive Clipsal C-Bus cable. There's nothing electrically different about C-Bus cable, it's just pink-coloured UTP, but the big advantage is that it's specially certified for installation alongside mains cable and inside switchboards. It would mean that I would have the option in future of simply swapping out my light switches and everything else for the equivalent C-Bus devices, and there'd be no re-cabling required. If we ever sell this house, I'll probably need to do that.
I'm in a rental so the best I can do is use wireless, but when I get my own home everything I do will be hardwired, and have battery backup on the security system so it will function if the power is cut
I agree with the issues of WiFi. It's not meant for everything (security!, cameras and TV especially). I do need to look into the limitations of the AP. I've run into that a lot with cheaper router/firewalls. Of course that hasn't stopped me (yet) from using wireless when I can experiment with it. It's hard to run wires in a home and when you're first building something wireless lets you skip that point. BTW, I'm still running my Circuit Cellar HCS II (direct GPIO, RS485, 1985). So I expect more than 20 years out of my systems.
It sucks then to live in an already built double storey house because running cable to the ground floor is difficult to impossible without cutting holes in plaster board everywhere.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU !!! Buy the way, thanks for your videos, and the time you spent on it. 👍 I’m currently making a project with the same spirit : ➡️ Ethernet + POE injectors (but auto-adaptative injectors multi-voltages (PWM) for my needs to power all kinds of micro controllers Arduino / ESP32 / Photon / ESP8266). ➡️ MQTT centralized broker, and trying to implement a kind of “keep-alive” system (if one fail, the second one is relaying flows of data ... with virtual IP, etc). QoS is used for some type of signals (IR for the security, ...) ➡️ 2 Rpi and their 5 inches TFT to display all kinds of things (alerts, temps, hygrometers, IR sensors, water tank level, ...) ➡️ And at the end of the Eth. line micro-controller modules with a limited capabilities, so they can perform actions if the MQTT brokers fails ... (important for the “WAF”) and they can grab their configurations (zero-conf like) from the MQTT broker via data stored in a DB. ➡️ A LAMP server to pilot all these over HTTP(S)/NodeJS/JSON/Websockets/Framework7/... ➡️ ... (many things in that 3 dots !) And people, now, about using WiFi in your projects, think about that critical risk that is “WPA2 KRACK ATTACK” ... 🤔 Have a nice day ! 😉
Wow, it sounds like you're building an amazing system! It'd be awesome if you did some blog posts or videos about it. I'm very interested in the clustered / failover MQTT broker. I've done clustering for other services in the past and I want to do it with MQTT.
Well ....a lot of people think wiring is the best solution ....i agree in lot of cases...But i m used to work with disabled people and i can tell u that wifi is not only useful but really important foe them to be able to switch on a light or a Tv or to close shutters with wifi ...😉
100% Agree for reliability and if it is for someone else you are setting it up for, you don't want endless phone calls re: wifi drop outs, wifi password changes, router changes when they move to a new ISP etc.etc. ... For my own home, where I can easily fix those issues - I tend to use WiFi devices for hard to access locations. I also find the long Cat5/6 runs are often cost prohibitive for some simple activities. I've started using 3G devices instead using SIM cards that cost $2/mth from m2mone.com.au/ in some instances as I find it more reliable than WiFi and also more able to recover from power losses gracefully.
The important thing is to use the best solution for the specific circumstances, so having all these different solutions in your toolkit is great. I usually get that comment from people who want to put WiFi in everything, regardless of whether it's the best solution.
I don't agree. Wifi drop out - change your router to a better one, I never experienced any dropout in my home Wifi network. BTW I am using quality Wifi devices, like Ubiquiti. Wifi password changes, router changes - If you put for example ESPEASY firmware (MTQQ support is available) on your ESP device and when the set Wifi network is become unavailable it automatically set itself to configure mode so you can set up your new network within few sec.
Jonathan, Question. Whether wired or wireless, there is now a middle man. Making documentation is great, but what about if this is being done in new build homes that are being sold. Or You build your house up and down the line you sell it. The operation of the house is simple enough but the maintenance and repair side is now drastically more difficult. How do you sell the idea of this to people who "just want it to work" and are not tech savvy? With of of the products out there like z-wave switches what still use the standard wiring of a house. Even when the "smart" aspect of the house goes out the old mechanical "dumb" side still works. There is no way to have the mechanical redundancy in your centralized power setup is there? I mean this as a legitimate question, so I hope it doesn't come off like I'm just here to troll. I have a fried that is a farmer, I've shown him some of my very basic home automation and he thinks its great and wants to maybe do like you have on his new home. However he is not a technical person. Around here that seems to be pretty common, folk would love the technology but there isn't enough tech savvy people here to maintain it should it go awry, that is to say the information on its inner workings isn't common place yet. So how do we build "dumb" redundancy?
You are not old-fashioned, you are just a professional who learned the basics before using them in a project. As you said: WiFi is not fore Core Systems.
@Jonathan I am planning to make my entire new home smart.I am planning to pass 8 core/CAT 6e cable along side AC wire.Can i place them in the same electrical conduit that have been put through the wall or do i need to put in separate electrical conduit considering any fault may happen.
Great question. The most likely answer is no, for 2 reasons. Firstly, depending on what country you live in, it might be against regulations. Your electrician should know what you're allowed to do. In many places it's not allowed because of the danger of physical cross-connection. For example, if both wires are against each other, and someone drives a nail through a wall, your Ethernet could suddenly become connected to mains. Secondly, electrical noise in the data cable. Cat-6E is very well shielded so in reality this isn't likely to be a problem, but having power and data separated (and only crossing at right angles) is best. But in any case: talk to an electrician or data cabler who knows the local regulations. I can't give advice on things like that.
On your first video about Sonoff, you showed a clip about auto wireless roller blinds. I looked through all your videos and couldn't find a video about them. Is there any chance you could make an info vid about them. Please
4 года назад
Here in Europe we build houses out of concrete and bricks, not cardbord. So as much as I would love to run cables to everything, I can't destroy my walls. :(
I’ve just started in home automation and loving the possibilities. I have unknowingly followed your advice because things like CCTV and security don’t make sense on a wifi that could drop out in power failure or hacked, etc. I do have a question though, I’ve got a double brick house with no crawl space in the room so have resorted to wi-fi light switches. Is there any other option instead?
Great theme. I have the same opinion. But small and cheap equipment is missing on the market. With Ethernet and PoE. Or not? Example: 20m CAT7 cable, terminated in box 5x5x5cm. I need to measure temperature and humidity. Which device to use?
The other thing that is never considered by those talking of home automation is what happens to it once you are no longer there or no longer able to perform the duties of IT department both as IT integrator and network/system support. Will your wife and kids no longer be able to open the door or turn on a light. Electricians are doing something fundamentally simple by wiring a house and most can easily come in and figure out your wiring circuits, and adding standalone devices such as lamps fridges etc is something that just about anyone can do, but how does your spouse or even yourself (with diminished capacity) deal with Wi-fi, networks, hubs, arduino, relays, micro controllers, ifttt, MQTT, Tasmota, cloud integration, firmware updates, etc, etc. How does your family deal with their smart house if you get hit by a bus? What documentation have you left? How long will the system operate with no intervention? Am I the only person that considers these issues when trying to decide how smart I want my house to be?
my entire house is wifi, lights, irrigation, AC control, remotes, tv, audio, etc. I haven't had an issue. The only reason why i am wireless, is i do not have the want, or ability to run wires to every light switch. I can also just remove a sonoff device, and everything is back to normal. I run openhab, with tasmota on most devices, and custom arduino code on others.. I understand the pros of a wired connection, IF you have the ability to run the wires easily.
I think there is place for Wifi based controls. My alarm is wired, my cameras are wired. All my lightning, av system etc are Wifi controlled and I am happy with it. I have separate router with hidden ssid, wpa2 secured. If am goong to build a new house I am pretty sure that I am going to pull wires, but this is not an option in my existing house.
It sounds like you've used the best solution for your specific circumstances, which is great. I have nothing against that! What annoys me is people who say that I *shouldn't* have used hard wiring, and should have used WiFi instead because ... well, I don't really know.
You are exactly on point and exactly RIGHT! Too many people want the easy way instead of the correct way. I don't want my home automation on a outside server either but am having a hard time locating anything. I am will to build it myself too and probably will end up building my own.
When will people learn that WIFI is honestly not as good as it may seem? You still have to power the device, deal with reception, security issues, and a whole mess of headaches that come with the territory. Wifi can be helpful for some devices but wired connections are always better if available.
Preach it, brother :-)
And also of the 2.4GHz cancer radiation! ;)
Additional power consumption...
Kudos for that! Kappa
Just try living with simple wifi light bulbs like hue of yi lights. Brilliant untill they can't conect.
Frustrating when they bork for ten mins for no reason.
For secure wired lines, they need to be monitored with EOL (End of Line) resistors or diodes or other protection for short or open circuit accidents or tampering.
Not to mention trying to make sure that all the devices placed in weird places around your house could easily be blocked or interrupted by anything between the wireless source and the device.
I couldn't agree more. People get excited when they learn to use anything - especially when they can start parsing out data (that's when it starts becoming useful)... Then they figure they've become experts and start telling people how to do stuff based on what they've just learned. Thanks Mr. Oxer :) P.S. Love the cameos with EEVBlog and The Amp Hour. Oh, and one shirt one take! Sweet!
Thanks for setting us straight again Jon. Surely someone has an open source protocol (not C-bus) that can handle multiple switches, pots, capacitive sensors etc.
running over RS485. BTW, Boian Mitov is doing some great stuff for Modbus with Visuino.
I couldn't agree more. I installed a KNX/EIB solution when we did a total renovation. It's old and antiquated, and requires a powered bus cable running everywhere; But it is 100% stable. And it is a proven standard, so you can integrate it with anything.
Now you mentioned the sonoff, and that can be a really good solution also for switches since you can wire a switch to it that will still work if you lose internet connection. Especially if you don't have the option to retrofit.
Btw you are right about the running out of client connections on access points, but that is no different than running out of plugs for ethernet cables in a wired system
Regarding the Sonoff, yes, exactly. I showed the use of a local button combined with central control in one of my previous videos :-)
I would love to hard wire everything but my house is wired in not so easy way and channels are not going everywhere. Wires for switches are cemented in and in the ceiling are channels but they are full or they just stop somewhere. Thats why i will have to do a central location in the attic for sonoff swithes and only run lead wires to existing leads from switches. It will still be a lot of work with lifting isolation and putting channels in but it's much cheaper and easier than destroying the walls
If the sonof ever gets an american safety certification it might be an option.
Spot on. One of my friends is building and is interested in home automation. Told him to wire up. Ethernet, speaker wires, the works. Marginally higher cost when roughing in.
I think a lot of the arguments pro wireless and against wired is driven by cost only. When retrofitting wires you have potentially high cost due to the building structure and sometimes need external help. At the moment I'm putting in PoE cameras and it's a pain to have theses cable runs.
Lastly a lot of it is driven by clever marketing. Plug it in, connect to wireless and in 5 mins you can see who's at the front door... tempting
I think coax for cameras is a bit old, PoE is the go, but never wireless.
Re wireless, first thing that comes to mind for me is 'What if i change the SSID and/or password?'
Then you need to dig up every ESP in the house and dump new code on it!
i 99% agree with you there, but you missed out an important part, and that is that hard wiring cant always be done cheaply... especially not in a rental. Im renting and cant just hard wire my blinds into the wall, and have to rely on ESP modules run off 5V phone charger as thats as good as i can get it for now. I agree that if you can hard wire, its the way to go, and a single point of upgrades and maintanance is a HUGE cost and time saver if possible. I like the videos, keep them coming :D
In many situations wireless is the correct solution to the problem. I use it a lot myself. The problem I have is with people who tell me I shouldn't have hard-wired, because it would have been better to use WiFi for some reason they can't explain :-)
Too right. In a fixed installation, cables to everything possible is the best way to go. For those who can't get at the wiring in the walls - perhaps you can access the wiring in your roof spaces? If so you can do what I'm doing in my house which is to connect the conventional switches to the home automation controller as inputs - thus you don't need to change the wiring in the walls.
Wifi advantages:
1. cost: endpoints can be made for cheaper than a 20m cat6 run.
2. portable: you can move your things when you move, ideal for apt dwellers
3. legal: running in-wall wires requires code compliance; wifi: notsomuch.
4. capacity: one cheap hotspot can serve 100+ nodes: a 100-port hub is $$$
5. flexibility: network topology can be changed from an armchair instead of crawlspace
6. compatibility: i can give a friend a wifi switch, but how many have cat6 pre-wired?
7. redundancy: if one hub goes down, wifi nodes can re-route to a 2nd router: beat that cat6!
All good and valid points. I'm not against WiFi. I use it extensively, and it's very useful when it's the best solution for the specific circumstances. But it's not ALWAYS the solution, which many people seem to think.
I agree, just some of the comments seemingly put wifi a step up from tin cans and string. Good video btw, as always...
I agree. If I ever build my own house I'm going to rout the mains power to every outlet and built-in light to a single "power" room. That room will have the breaker box so that all circuits can be wired right in there. The missing part to this scheme is a modular way to terminate all these circuits to the breakers with a place that would let me add automation to each one individually.
I'd also add low voltage wiring to each switch position in the house back into the power room. The low tech version would then let some kind of low voltage switch at the wall position to control a relay in the power room to control the power to each light fixture and every mains power outlet. I have found all of this hardware available "off-the-shelf" at one place or another, many intended for industrial usage. But this whole idea is to make it easy to change the power control hardware as I experiment and not have to rewire anything after the wallboard has been installed.
Of course I'd put in Ethernet wiring to every room too, but that goes without saying, doesn't it?
Excellent points! It all depends on what one needs. Anything critical, or even rather important, must be hard wired. For me, a switch for the hallway light doesn't fall into that category. If an attacker has a deauther to kill wifi, they may also have a cell jammer and would probably kill the power and internet/phone wires. Notification would be an issue then. It all comes down to proper risk management.
Exactly! My point is that the solution should be appropriate to the problem. This video is a response to all the people who tell me that I *shouldn't* have put in cable because WiFi would be better. Sometimes WiFi (or other RF) is the best solution, but not always.
As an ex Navy cryptologist and a security system pen tester for over 25 years (the last many years on the internet) this is the first time I have come across sensible, balanced and reasoned advice about the limitations and advantages of wired and wireless based security systems.
They both have a place and they both have limitations. I have been out to sites where someone has run 12 VDC feeds to an 8 camera wireless cctv system for example. The client cant understand why the 8 cameras running at 1080p 25 FPS keep locking up, dropping frames and the wifi network is performing like a Acoustic coupled modem at 300 baud !!!
Not only do you have to explain why you could fry an egg on the router / access point you have try and reason out why the installer didn't just run cat 6 with POE and plug into that very convenient port marked LAN on the back of each camera. Not only has the original installer left a complete mess behind he has actually made himself ten times the amount of work.
This is not even bringing into the question the entire systems vulnerability. I get asked why my report to the insurance company rates building security as poor. Now you have to explain why and deal with a very annoyed customer that just paid a fortune for his CCTV, and yes you guessed right in that the alarm system is a DIY grade unsupervised radio system has been fitted to.
It is a great shame that time and time again I find that people do not take security seriously until they have been burgled and lost not only property but a feeling of being secure, that's something that can be hard to replace and sometimes impossible. I really do hope that your advice is listened to and saves a lot of upset as it normally takes an unpleasant incident to occur before that happens !
A great informative and factual video Jonathan :) Nice one !!!!!!!!!!
Any critical systems I plan to automate will have a local device doing the work and wifi for mqtt. Simple status updates & controls for HVAC or such.
I've built a home automation system using ESP8266, uses UDP with redundant resends. It works much better than I expected. I will agree with you that wired is better, I needed power to the units so I end up having to at least cable the devices to power. It was however very cheap! Some of it I built with the SONOFF range of modules, these are ideal for re-purposing rather than make it all from scratch. From a security view wired will always be more secure, even though I wrote all the code I still have to trust the closed source binary blobs involved, you can never be sure, then again I don't trust windows or Macos for the exactly the same reason and plenty of people who bang on about security sit in front of that while they do it....
Wifi is only nice for devices that cannot connect to a wire, like an ipad or iphone, for the rest all wired
Not really all my phones Blackberry, Andorid and Windows phones are all wired!
Besides you have bluetooth but neither wifi or bluetooth are that great or reliable or fully functional!
Yeah, for the rest it's weird
Totally agree. One big problem with wireless switches etc is they still need power so you end up using a cable anyway.
To keep cost down (10 years ago) I started by using RS485 over telephone cable with two cores for power and two for signal. I have switched to CAN bus recently as the modules can now be purchased very cheaply and it supports more devices much more reliably but still uses the same telephone cable. It also doesn’t require switches or routers etc and can be daisy chained between controllers, keeping wiring and cost down to a minimum.
Both RS485 and CAN are great solutions. You may have seen I did an episode about LIN for controlling window motors, which is like a simplified single-master version of CAN. The nice thing is that with the cables in place, you could swap from RS485 to CAN with minimal effort.
Thats why i rely on hard wire for safety as well as security related purposes. Nice Explanation
It's a lot easier to run wires if you house is made of plywood but here in Europe most houses are made of brick. Luckily I have a attic so I can run wires easier but I still need to make channels for light switches.
I totally agree. All you have to do is think of how many phones have become bricks because you can't use them with systems anymore. But wait, we had lan lines for 100 years using the same phones switches and wires.
On top of that, I can't tell you how often I have to reset the router, the TV, the tablet because some glitch in the WiFi connection is off. Imagine having to do this with your home automation. WiFi connections are just not stable enough to rely on for critical applications.
I completely agree that wires always offer better reliability. It's not as hard as the do-it-yourselfer might think to run Cat5 or Cat6 cable around your house with the proper tools like fiberglass rods to get in between walls. If you're building a new home it is much easier and I would consider only using cat 7. And if you can't get copper to a particular location then use Wi-Fi.
This video is still current today! I am building a new house with automation (but without traditional light switches) with cameras, PIRs, Presence, and other sensors all wired. Thank you for a clam and unemotional presentation; I hope it 'talks' sense into some.
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does someone know of a way to get back into an instagram account..?
I was stupid forgot the login password. I appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Cristian Joaquin Instablaster =)
@Zahir Russell thanks so much for your reply. I found the site on google and Im in the hacking process atm.
I see it takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Zahir Russell It worked and I finally got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much, you saved my account!
@Cristian Joaquin No problem =)
Yes, I agree. I have three access points - one dedicated to automation. Wired connections are best for a 24/7 system.
I work in IT and couldn't agree more its suprising the number of so called professional IT people who rant on about Wifi being the solution.
100% agree with Jono. Bloody shame that Oz is so backward with authorisations to self wire your own home. The Kiwis can do it and they even publish awesome guides and standards. Only good thing about ACMA is that you should only be able to buy certified CAT cable in Oz.
Depends on the state. In QLD at least, the idea behind self-wiring ethernet being illegal is just a wives' tale spread by bullshit artists. The closest the law ever gets is saying connections to telecommunications networks, which does NOT include local ethernet.
There are so many AV installers out there that aren't certified electricians, take that for context.
Nicholas Negroponte used to say that if the device is not mobile, it shouldn't be wireless, completely agree.
I tend to agree. Of course often there is little choice. I have chased a couple of walls in my time to not want to have to do that around my house. (UK most houses are still mostly brick). Running cables is really only an option if you are building your own house. I would also worry about what new owners would think when coming to sell your home. I would expect you would have to pay an electrician to rewire a traditional system.
Yes, wireless can be the only solution (or the easiest solution) sometimes. The important thing is to use the best solution for the problem at hand :-)
I like your ideas I don't think the light in-the-house going to be a problem security cameras security lights hard wire, yes u can use power over wifi hock up battery backup I like your videos and good see Ozzy doing cool stuff keep up good work
Another great video. If I have ever pulled the "why not just use WiFi" card, I am sorry. I know my chief question in home automation regarding wireless has been finding something that works with existing wiring as a mechanical switch with a wireless options. ie flip a switch on the wall OR use your phone. I know they have z-wave switches. My problem is z-wave and zigbee seem to be part of the 2.4GHz band as I understand it. That just seems like it would muddy the band, being that I already have WiFi (2.4GHz and 5GHz) with no less that 15 devices on 2.4GHz.
My first project is going to be a multi sensor and controller for my garage. The idea is to read temp/humidity, light, motion, and for the doors a ma-switch in the garage to tell if the doors are open or closes and a relay to short the two wires that sends the open/close command to my garage door opener. The mechanical switch just shorts out two wires momentarily to open/close the door so a relay should work as well. I've been spinning my wheels on this project trying to decide on wifi or z-wave. Maybe I should just run wire...
100% decent wire (not the cheapest possible) that's been installed well is the way to go. RS232, 485, dry contacts, etc, still have their place and SCADA (commercial) and all its modern implementations still work on basic principles. Fibre is good for very long runs (not usually needed in residential) but also higher cost, more points of failure, converters, need to secure infrastructure and provide more backup power, cover all what-if scenarios. Wireless is handy as an option, but always best to use wired for the core of any install and when it has to work reliably in all possible conditions. Ongoing firmware updates (if available), products and standards no longer being supported and security risks of IoT also a reality.
In our house (which we own) it is completely impossible to re-do the wiring which would be an absolute must to get ethernet or just any new wire into the light switches. The house was made from bricks and even the electrical wiring is in the wall directly beneath the plastering spread like fishing nets or spider webs. There is no reliable cable plan and the house was built about thirty five years ago. My best option to get around using the pesky wireless - which I would love to do - would be to go for power-lan technology. I've been looking for viable products but haven't found anything affordable. I would pay up to 10 to 15 times as much as for a comparable esp8266 module but either my google-skills are just not up to the task or there is no usable technology out there. My personal favourite would be to open all the walls, re-do the wiring completely, add low power, high voltage and ethernet to any socket, no matter if for mains or an outlet or a switch but that won't go well with the misses - that's for certain. After all we also have to live here and currently I'm pondering to get ethernet wired into the upper floor via the outside walls ... Oh my - what would I give for accessible hollow American wooden walls ... Anyways - great show as always. Cheers! JM
Thanks JM! Yes, retrofitting cable can be a horrible job with solid walls. In many cases it's just not possible at all, so wireless is the only solution.
SuperHouseTV For me is the same story... I bought house with standard existing electric wiring and bricks wall. I'am going to place sonoff with tasmota firmware and control all this via mqtt with homeassistant wirelessly. I think is the best solution for our case. I hope all going to works well. Have you some advice for our situation?
I built our house 15 years ago, and ran a lot of cat6, but not to a lot of the core functions (switches, lamps etc). Retrofitting would be a very expensive project in several places.
My plan is to use wireless devices that default to "traditional" operation, like the sonoff that controls power locally, but can also be remotely controlled and report state back to the core. WiFi and RF isn't "critical path" for function, but allows for additional control and monitoring.
I found this and a few other similar things but the price is just so far off of the PoE solutions your company provided and also of what I can build based on an ESP myself - even powered through 220V AC all behind a switch including a one or two channel relay ... it just doesn't make sense to implement anything based on that solution - plus it is completely closed source: www.evw-24.de/INPROJAL-Nero-II-Schaltmodul-16-A-UP?googlede=1
I am wondering if coming up with an open hardware / open source powerline/power-lan module featuring one relay, some IO, 3.3V DC power and maybe a heat sensor could be brought to the market for less than $15 in bulk ... If there was anything like the Sonoff for power-lan/powerline instead of wifi I would replace all my light switches at $10 to $15 each without even blinking at the investment. Should read up on specs how many devices can work reliably together in such an environment, though. Cheers! JM
In italy if you put high voltage, low power and ethernet in the same socket you probably go to jail.
I've made low voltage circuit for switches and it was a total pain everythigs need to be in a different tube.
I just found you, and this is crazy, you're my kind of guy, so keep making videos maybe :P
I thought about that. So I decided to hard wire all lights and shutters motors into the fuse box and use relays, which my home automation system then can control. However for flexbility and not having to break open all my walls I decided to use cheap 433 MHz light switches, the power is generated by the button press so no need for a battery.
I got pretty wired watching this video ;)
good one :)
Me too, man
Obviously, as various folks have pointed out, it's often not possible to wire. But, it also doesn't come down to either wired or Wifi. Using a dedicated wireless protocol is still better than using Wifi in most cases. So Zigbee as a non-proprietary example, or Lutron's Caseta or Radio RA2 for good proprietary examples. Wifi just isn't well suited for automation except in some special cases. It's good for touch screen clients of course, and for things that have too high data rate requirements for standards like the ones above, which are targeted towards the needs of lower data rate devices.
Wifi just wins because it's the default. If Joe Blow Corp decides to make some widget, he chooses Wifi because he knows it's already there and it's retrofit friendly. So we get all of these Wifi based devices, whether its optimal or not. And of course Joe Blow Corp probably didn't hire a top security expert, so the 'Smart Toe Jam Remover' device you bought from him becomes a Trojan Horse on your network and/or a DDOS bot, because it's a network enabled device. That isn't an issue with Zigbee or other proprietary wireless devices.
And of course a lot of people these days assume that wired means network, when it has traditionally often meant a serial cable. A lot of people might scoff at serial connections as old fashioned. But, in a world of security nightmares, they make a lot of sense for a lot of devices. It's a point to point connection that is not shared, so it can't be hacked. And it lets you control the device but would never allow the device to get to either the controlling computer or any other devices in the home. It worked well for decades and it still does, and maybe make more sense now than ever.
I could not agree more. Especially find of keeping high volume traffic like audio/video streamers off the wifi. This step alone improves the situation a lot.
It's not always possible to wire but when it is, it's the best and simplest method...
Having said that, I would be tempted to change from Arduino to ESP32 devices and add redundancy (wire and WiFi) and of course I would not have issues with batteries etc...
Lots of good points here, and I agree with them all. However, I kept waiting for a "..and look at these Freetronics cables that are on sale today!" That would have been hilarious!
Wires! Wires for everyone!
I thought the same thing, I started to comment and you kept covering what I was about to type. I also thought about having to change the wifi key, what a pain that would be for those people who didn't prepare for that and hard coded their keys. You could run PoE and not have to worry about plugging in in areas and easier to cycle a device that may be within a wall from the PoE source or within nodered etc.
I totally agree with you about wire, in my house I've wired all switches and now the light are controlled by a siemens s7 (totally horrible) and realys... but what if I want to sell my house?... I can remove the system and replace all with step relay in a couple of hours. I hope that sonoff or others add to their systems some like 4ch but with wired inputs for switches. When it happend I will probably buy a lot of them and get rid of the PLC ... as soon as I flash the firmware and hook them to a openhab system.
I think that your work, and your way to do will became THE way to do in the future. (IMHO)
I'm so glad I discovered your videos highlighting doing wired home automation. Wifi is not the best way to go in my opinion. Wired is lot lest headache, and you don't need to worry about vulnerabilities.
Agreed on critical systems probably shouldn't be wireless. One of my project ideas was a WiFi thermostat that would read from WiFi thermometers around the house. Each thermometer would have a "set master" button for if i want the furnace to control the temp in that room instead of the set schedule. One of the main features is a standalone mode which it will failsafe into if the network goes down. I have been working on switching my cameras from WiFi to Ethernet, not because i am concerned about a burglar jamming them, but because if the power goes out, i don't want to be the only person with WiFi. Added benefit on using PoE is managing a central large battery bank instead of multiple small ones. No sense having cameras operational while the DVR is dead, or having the DVR running, recording nothing but "no signal since xxxxxxxx"
I use Ecobee 3 thermostat in my house with additional sensors. Works great!
better if you still have wire, if there are instances that internet or cloud is down, you cant turn on the device. However, one other way to solve this issue is to use dual-frequency devices like that can be controlled by 433 MHz kinetic switches which even if cloud or internet is down you can still turn it on or off.
brilliant. Exactly what I tell every home builder I meet: you cannot have enough wires inside your walls. thanks.
Thanks for your home automation videos, I really enjoy seeing what can be done. I also agree about WiFi, it’s nice and easy, but probably not the best decision long-term.
However, for someone like me, if I wanted to retrofit my house, running cables to all of the switches, or installing controllers at the switchbox and then re-cabling the lights and certain power-points would be a massive project.
However, if I could use something like a Seneors switch actually located at the light switch or Power Point, I could then just replace the existing switch with a button. Yes, I know that I still need to find a way of getting my control signal to the Soft-Switch, but could “Ethernet over Power” be used for this? I was just thinking the Power lines are already installed and if an “Ethernet over Power” system could be incorporated
into the Soft-Switch (e.g. Seneors), that should make it much easier to install, while still having a secure network.
What are your thoughts on using “Ethernet over Power” to control home automation?
My thoughts exactly! It's too bad I can only give a single thumbs up!
There is a difference putting together a switch or two for the kicks vs designing a whole house automation system where critical systems relying on. Wifi switch is a good crowd pleaser, but as Jon says nothing beats the good old wired connection full stop. At Least wifi is not there just yet.
Been dabbling with home control for over 15 years now. On my second system now. It’s very interesting to hear of your experiences over the years.
Was particularly interesting the hear your thoughts on presents detection and failover.
Have been working on presents detection, using PIR, BT, WiFi, microwave etc, combining two or more to give better reliability, haven’t succeed yet though.
Also been working on fast auto fault recover, will never get to 100% reliability but hopeful close.
Keep up the good work. Looking forward to your next video.
I totally agree with you regarding wireless vs wired. The trend of switching to wireless for everything bugs me. People don't seem to look ahead to the future, even if you set aside all the problems you cover in this video, there is still the major problem of a massive increase in EM noise that will undoubtedly cause unforeseen problems in the near future.
Personally however I wouldn't even use WiFi for most smart home things needing wireless. I would use something like nrf24 instead, and then only use wifi where I need to bridge to IP networks. Using an esp8266 is much easier granted, but WiFi isn't the most efficient of protocols. It's unnecessarily noisy for most smarthome tasks and wastes a lot of energy doing nothing. NRF24 modules can be made to consume very little energy when you only put them into transmit mode on demand, and spend the rest of the time in receive mode. In a notification based system, devices should be spending most of their time in receive mode anyway. They should only be transmitting when there's an event or a request to respond to.
Yes, very good points. Because you can't see radio signals, many people don't understand that you can't just keep adding wireless devices in a small area. The spectrum is a shared resource. I was working at a customer's apartment in the center of Melbourne recently, and my laptop could see about 60 access points!
As you say, even if you use wireless it doesn't always need to be WiFi. Many times just a simple ASK / OOK transmission on an ISM band is the best solution. I do that too, and I've been working on a couple of videos related to intercepting and decoding signals from devices that use 433MHz comms. I've done it with a weather station, domestic power meters, motion detectors, (!), and currently working on a tank depth sensor project.
I would love to add the wired buttons throughout the house. My only issue is the wife's one rule: "if the internet goes down, or the controller fails the light switches still need to work". Trying to find a way to have my cake and eat it too is stressful. The ESP8266's make this simple since I can use normally open closed portion of the relays to make sure if the system shuts down, the lights still work.
I'm always open to ideas for new projects!
Edit: Having thought about for a few mins. I can just run the wire to the relay instead of directly to the switch. Problem solved.
Benjamin H you could also put a UPS on the controller and poe switch. Then setup a cluster of controllers that use a secondary shared IP with something like heartbeat. You'll have redundancies for them that way.
Josiah Ritchie that could work! I don't understand the last bit though. What is heartbeat?
Benjamin H Heartbeat is a Linux software that is used for server clusters. The relevant piece is that the software tracks both cluster members and decides which one is currently using the shared IP. You'd need to either sync the two mqtt databases or decide it is okay for them to be out of sync. This could also be handy for updates since you could update one while the other is active. (Granted, this is all theory in my head, but based on things I do in my day job.)
Josiah Ritchie that is amazing. Ok you have given me a bunch of ideas! To the drawing board!
Actually if the power is turned off (by a thief), then that will bring down everything, including wired networks to a grinding halt. No need to find a jammer or EMP device. Surprisingly enough, almost all houses in Australia has main breakers in the meter box on outside wall, un-locked, inviting anybody to tamper with. Upon request, the utility company provides a lock at a cost (around $70). Nobody (including me) seems bothered doing that. However, it is not smart to put your own lock, since it will yield the meter box un accessible by the meter-reader.
There's a UPS hiding in the bottom of the rack in my main wiring area, and the CCTV system also has its own dedicated UPS.
I would suggest having a current sensor for alerting power-outages, if your UPS does not support easy interfacing. Better you may have another current sensor (current-transformer type) mounted on the incoming lead to the meter box, behind the back panel. A licenced electrician is needed to do this legally though. This would help determine if the outside breaker is maliciously dropped.
I know this leads to extreme paranoia, but having all sorts of sensors, what the heck having power monitoring too :)
Right on! Wired beats WiFi for any mission critical system.
Just as as note. If I am not mistaken many planes do in fact use fly by wire to control critical controls on the plane. The throttle on many cars are wireless. But I agree a wired system is more reliable.
I have to agree with JM Tosses below, for a house with existing 240v mains wiring a Powerline Ethernet device at each location is a possible answer. however, they are expensive and can be bulky.
I used to work at a computer shop and those Powerline adapters came back regularly with issues. Didn't matter which brand or type. So like JM says: think longterm, go cable :).
Great video as always. I HATE Wi-Fi with a passion.
Here in the UK I’m currently battling with running Sky Tv new “SkyQ” system that uses Wi-Fi and in my house is just crap. It also interferes with my house Wi-Fi.
So I’m currently still trying to complete cat 6 all around the house and will only use Wi-Fi for my iPhone.
I couldn't agree more with that statement. I'm "darn happy" I'm oldfashion, if using wires gives you that kind of label... So far, I'm not using any wifi connection in my home automation system. Maybe I will in the future, but chances are low. I've foreseen cables (some of them, well, lots of them in fact..., still waiting to be connected) on every possible location where I think I will need one. And yes, should I have overlooked a place, then chances are I will use wifi, but only as an "emergency way-out"...
I would, in any case where it's possible, use a wire.
Unfortunately, in a rented home, where you can't just drill a hole in the ceiling to run cables along the attic, or run cables inside the walls to all the light switches, and (of course) you don't want a home where there's ethernet cables, visible, along every corner in the room, then WiFi is kinda the only solution.
But besides that, I would ALWAYS run cables to anything I possibly can.
I am lucky that all my Internet comes into the house and ends up in a closet in my entré. And there's already a hole in the top of it, where they ran some other cables, so I can hardwire motion sensors in the entré, and to the camera. I can also add all my network equipment (routers, servers and so on) in there, so it's all hard wires. And the house I rent is fairly new, so there's ethernet outlets in all rooms (except the entré and bathroom).. So I can also create small "hubs" in the different rooms, with a switch, if I wanted to.
But stuff like temperature/humidity sensors and other "nice to have"-devices, are wireless in my home!
Run Conduit. Empty tube technology will never be obsolete. I am a WIRES kind of guy too. However Z-Wave, especially the 700 series (not connected directly to the internet) is better than wifi for many smart home applications.
I'm going to keep a link to this video handy for the next time someone suggests using an ESP8266 for my HA projects ;) I feel the same about wireless. Why use wireless, when I can use wires! Good aviation analogy by the way! (Although I just read the comments; clearly not everyone agrees with that. They miss the point, in my opinion...)
I had asked in an earlier comment how does your litte wired push button turn on the light when your centralized controller goes south, and it will in the middle of the night. I use wireless devices but each must have local control at the device as well IE; sonoff, z-wave and tp-link. Each has a local manual button that controls the device. I can take my home controler and throw it out the window and still turn on my lights etc.
Bob Moran
Use DALI
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Addressable_Lighting_Interface
Yes, combining local and system control is the ideal architecture. I do that too. In a previous episode (I think it was "6 Sonoff Secrets") I showed use of a local button to control a Sonoff while its state is also updated in a centralised controller such as OpenHAB.
They are probably talking about *if you already have mains wired in*. If I had to do this, probably would consider using ESP or some powerline stuff, because the cable is already in place. So with their point is there is no cableing work. (At least we have both netural and live in the switches). If I had to do it from the beginning, your solution makes sense.
But still a mains psu is "very complicated", I'd rather build some low voltage whatever because those LM2596 based stuff are so cheap and easy and safe. But that is for things, where I need local logic (IDK for what. Maybe some "smart display", etc)
I agree that wires are more reliable but it's easier to connect to existing power line in the room (instead of using battery) then run new wires to single plase in house which can be 100 ft away.
The main reason is really security, just last week a critical Bug in the WPA WLAN Encryption standard bubbled up.
No. Wi-Fi is meant for comfort.. not reliability.
Wireless signals can get really clogged up at times when people get home from work and start watching youtube videos and stuff.
For an example, I cannot use WiFi anymore at 6pm because all of the wireless channels are crowded all of the sudden.
Now you wouldn't want that to happen in a home automation system where you click a light switch and the light for some reason doesn't turn on because A: The light switch cannot talk to the access point . or B: The receiving end for the relay can't talk to the access point anymore.
There are more examples:
- Motion sensors won't be triggered because wireless error or disassociation... ( Means you gotta reboot the damn thing and in the worst case scenario your place will be robbed without the alarm even triggering.)
and so on.
you should always use application level TLS encryption regardless if the whole connection is encrypted or not.
I still use and prefer wired LANs for normal devices such as PC's and printers in my home rather than WiFi. I still have WiFi for portable stuff but wired is so much easier and more reliable when it comes to setup and especially trouble shooting.
WiFi adds complexity and there are already enough things contending for bandwidth in the available air space as it is.
You can run a 100M CAT6 cable and know you are going to get your data out of the other end, to do that with WiFi is more of a challenge.
In this case as you have to provide power to everything anyway, it makes sense to run the data cables with power too. Otherwise you have to provide separate power supplies all over the place which is a nightmare in itself then the issue of adequate wignal strength back to the main system, probably requiring WiFi repeaters or additional wired access points, addinh yet more links in the chain that could fail.
That's exactly right. A piece of wire is dedicated bandwidth. Wireless is a shared spectrum.
I went with WiFi for cost, currently have about 50 things on one 5-year-old router, and have had no lag, drop-outs or other interruptions. Maybe i'm just really lucky, or maybe wifi aint so bad these days. I can see the argument for inputs like switches, which need standby power, but outputs like lamps already have power, which makes setup a breeze.
Great video, perfect timing as I am in the process of building my first home
Totally agree!
... instant subscribed!
I'm still thinking of running a 12 volt rail throughout the house and have some step down regulators. The advantage of that... 1 only 2 wires with power , 2 Good router will save the day ( maby get a dedicated one for the automation task like the server ) 3 much easier to set up ( don't have to deal with all the wiring ) 4 PROBLEMS misscommunications errors or fails will keep you busy. If you make something from nothing and it works you loose interest and you say " it just works forget about it" THIS IS NOT OUR MIND ! If we want to learn and evolve on anything we do it the hard way ! I use HTTP and GET, POST, PHP is great on notifications and IF THIS DO THAT not MQTT. Bring yourself beyond and get better at anything.
Excellent thoughts ..... Love your work !!!
+SuperHouseTV, I was thinking after your last video, in hindsight if you knew your switches weren't going to be IP based, would you have run different cable?
Great question. I think I would still have used UTP, but ideally I should have used the much more expensive Clipsal C-Bus cable. There's nothing electrically different about C-Bus cable, it's just pink-coloured UTP, but the big advantage is that it's specially certified for installation alongside mains cable and inside switchboards. It would mean that I would have the option in future of simply swapping out my light switches and everything else for the equivalent C-Bus devices, and there'd be no re-cabling required. If we ever sell this house, I'll probably need to do that.
I too agree with you, I hate the fact of using my network and electricity to power more devices around the house, its a waste .
I'm in a rental so the best I can do is use wireless, but when I get my own home everything I do will be hardwired, and have battery backup on the security system so it will function if the power is cut
So easy to jam the WiFi channel spectrum with a simple ESP8266 sketch, too
I agree with the issues of WiFi. It's not meant for everything (security!, cameras and TV especially). I do need to look into the limitations of the AP. I've run into that a lot with cheaper router/firewalls. Of course that hasn't stopped me (yet) from using wireless when I can experiment with it. It's hard to run wires in a home and when you're first building something wireless lets you skip that point. BTW, I'm still running my Circuit Cellar HCS II (direct GPIO, RS485, 1985). So I expect more than 20 years out of my systems.
Great video. Greetings from Andreas on Off Grid Sweden
Alright..now I get it on when and where to use the WiFi and when it should not be used.. :)
Thanks for changing my point of view.
Cheers!
It sucks then to live in an already built double storey house because running cable to the ground floor is difficult to impossible without cutting holes in plaster board everywhere.
I feel like going wireless would be better for retrofitting. Permanent installations, definitely wired.
I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU !!!
Buy the way, thanks for your videos, and the time you spent on it. 👍
I’m currently making a project with the same spirit :
➡️ Ethernet + POE injectors (but auto-adaptative injectors multi-voltages (PWM) for my needs to power all kinds of
micro controllers Arduino / ESP32 / Photon / ESP8266).
➡️ MQTT centralized broker, and trying to implement a kind of “keep-alive” system (if one fail, the second one is relaying flows of data ... with virtual IP, etc). QoS is used for some type of signals (IR for the security, ...)
➡️ 2 Rpi and their 5 inches TFT to display all kinds of things (alerts, temps, hygrometers, IR sensors, water tank level, ...)
➡️ And at the end of the Eth. line micro-controller modules with a limited capabilities, so they can perform actions if the MQTT brokers fails ... (important for the “WAF”) and they can grab their configurations (zero-conf like) from the MQTT broker via data stored in a DB.
➡️ A LAMP server to pilot all these over HTTP(S)/NodeJS/JSON/Websockets/Framework7/...
➡️ ... (many things in that 3 dots !)
And people, now, about using WiFi in your projects, think about that critical risk that is “WPA2 KRACK ATTACK” ... 🤔
Have a nice day ! 😉
Wow, it sounds like you're building an amazing system! It'd be awesome if you did some blog posts or videos about it. I'm very interested in the clustered / failover MQTT broker. I've done clustering for other services in the past and I want to do it with MQTT.
SuperHouseTV I will try to do my best, i promise !
Same goes for your tv, game consoles, desktop and it laptop computers. Run a wire to it for better gaming and better downloads.
Spot on, couldn't agree more
Well ....a lot of people think wiring is the best solution ....i agree in lot of cases...But i m used to work with disabled people and i can tell u that wifi is not only useful but really important foe them to be able to switch on a light or a Tv or to close shutters with wifi ...😉
100% Agree for reliability and if it is for someone else you are setting it up for, you don't want endless phone calls re: wifi drop outs, wifi password changes, router changes when they move to a new ISP etc.etc. ...
For my own home, where I can easily fix those issues - I tend to use WiFi devices for hard to access locations. I also find the long Cat5/6 runs are often cost prohibitive for some simple activities.
I've started using 3G devices instead using SIM cards that cost $2/mth from m2mone.com.au/ in some instances as I find it more reliable than WiFi and also more able to recover from power losses gracefully.
The important thing is to use the best solution for the specific circumstances, so having all these different solutions in your toolkit is great. I usually get that comment from people who want to put WiFi in everything, regardless of whether it's the best solution.
I don't agree. Wifi drop out - change your router to a better one, I never experienced any dropout in my home Wifi network. BTW I am using quality Wifi devices, like Ubiquiti. Wifi password changes, router changes - If you put for example ESPEASY firmware (MTQQ support is available) on your ESP device and when the set Wifi network is become unavailable it automatically set itself to configure mode so you can set up your new network within few sec.
U do what has to be Done !! Amazing Work.
Jonathan,
Question. Whether wired or wireless, there is now a middle man. Making documentation is great, but what about if this is being done in new build homes that are being sold. Or You build your house up and down the line you sell it. The operation of the house is simple enough but the maintenance and repair side is now drastically more difficult. How do you sell the idea of this to people who "just want it to work" and are not tech savvy?
With of of the products out there like z-wave switches what still use the standard wiring of a house. Even when the "smart" aspect of the house goes out the old mechanical "dumb" side still works. There is no way to have the mechanical redundancy in your centralized power setup is there?
I mean this as a legitimate question, so I hope it doesn't come off like I'm just here to troll. I have a fried that is a farmer, I've shown him some of my very basic home automation and he thinks its great and wants to maybe do like you have on his new home. However he is not a technical person. Around here that seems to be pretty common, folk would love the technology but there isn't enough tech savvy people here to maintain it should it go awry, that is to say the information on its inner workings isn't common place yet.
So how do we build "dumb" redundancy?
You are not old-fashioned, you are just a professional who learned the basics before using them in a project.
As you said: WiFi is not fore Core Systems.
He is dead wrong.
@Jonathan I am planning to make my entire new home smart.I am planning to pass 8 core/CAT 6e cable along side AC wire.Can i place them in the same electrical conduit that have been put through the wall or do i need to put in separate electrical conduit considering any fault may happen.
Great question. The most likely answer is no, for 2 reasons. Firstly, depending on what country you live in, it might be against regulations. Your electrician should know what you're allowed to do. In many places it's not allowed because of the danger of physical cross-connection. For example, if both wires are against each other, and someone drives a nail through a wall, your Ethernet could suddenly become connected to mains. Secondly, electrical noise in the data cable. Cat-6E is very well shielded so in reality this isn't likely to be a problem, but having power and data separated (and only crossing at right angles) is best.
But in any case: talk to an electrician or data cabler who knows the local regulations. I can't give advice on things like that.
On your first video about Sonoff, you showed a clip about auto wireless roller blinds. I looked through all your videos and couldn't find a video about them. Is there any chance you could make an info vid about them. Please
Here in Europe we build houses out of concrete and bricks, not cardbord. So as much as I would love to run cables to everything, I can't destroy my walls. :(
I’ve just started in home automation and loving the possibilities.
I have unknowingly followed your advice because things like CCTV and security don’t make sense on a wifi that could drop out in power failure or hacked, etc.
I do have a question though, I’ve got a double brick house with no crawl space in the room so have resorted to wi-fi light switches. Is there any other option instead?
Great theme. I have the same opinion. But small and cheap equipment is missing on the market. With Ethernet and PoE. Or not?
Example: 20m CAT7 cable, terminated in box 5x5x5cm. I need to measure temperature and humidity. Which device to use?
Can You please say how to wire Ethernet cable to whole house ?
The other thing that is never considered by those talking of home automation is what happens to it once you are no longer there or no longer able to perform the duties of IT department both as IT integrator and network/system support. Will your wife and kids no longer be able to open the door or turn on a light.
Electricians are doing something fundamentally simple by wiring a house and most can easily come in and figure out your wiring circuits, and adding standalone devices such as lamps fridges etc is something that just about anyone can do, but how does your spouse or even yourself (with diminished capacity) deal with Wi-fi, networks, hubs, arduino, relays, micro controllers, ifttt, MQTT, Tasmota, cloud integration, firmware updates, etc, etc. How does your family deal with their smart house if you get hit by a bus? What documentation have you left? How long will the system operate with no intervention?
Am I the only person that considers these issues when trying to decide how smart I want my house to be?
I did a video about exactly that problem: www.superhouse.tv/23-preparing-your-home-automation-system-for-death/
my entire house is wifi, lights, irrigation, AC control, remotes, tv, audio, etc. I haven't had an issue. The only reason why i am wireless, is i do not have the want, or ability to run wires to every light switch. I can also just remove a sonoff device, and everything is back to normal. I run openhab, with tasmota on most devices, and custom arduino code on others.. I understand the pros of a wired connection, IF you have the ability to run the wires easily.
When I found your channel I wasn't thinking 'why isn't he using WiFi?', instead I thought 'that is the way to do it!'
You'd be amazed how many messages, comments, etc I get telling me that I'm doing it wrong, and I should use WiFi for everything!
SuperHouseTV I have worked in both commercial engineering and consumer electronics design. I know the problems of wireless all too well.
I couldn't agree more!! Thank YOU!
I think there is place for Wifi based controls. My alarm is wired, my cameras are wired. All my lightning, av system etc are Wifi controlled and I am happy with it. I have separate router with hidden ssid, wpa2 secured. If am goong to build a new house I am pretty sure that I am going to pull wires, but this is not an option in my existing house.
It sounds like you've used the best solution for your specific circumstances, which is great. I have nothing against that! What annoys me is people who say that I *shouldn't* have used hard wiring, and should have used WiFi instead because ... well, I don't really know.