AMG and their “production” issues are directly hurting newer players. Like the cast commented on, it’s hard to get into a faction if the core options aren’t/wont be available for a year yet. With the cost of these expansions going up and up I’m glad I have a resin printer to make up the difference.
While I love the idea of a living game, I'm not keen on the way AMG is managing it. They really don't want fans to develop house rules - and yet they parse out these changes at a trickle that make it really difficult for new players to get comfortable with game play.
@ the new way the cards have been ruled out has caused a split in our local group. Some have them, some don’t, some just print a page out. It would have been much cleaner to have a pack ready for people to buy. Or faction based packs
The chess analogy is very interesting because in chess there are no choices to make in deployment, forces and objectives. To lose at chess you actually have to play the game badly. You can't lose because you think that putting the king on the front row will work. You can't lose by bringing a king and 30 pawns. Also, in chess, even when you lose key pieces in a bad trade or because you didn't see an angle, you can very often recover and win with good play. There's always a window and it takes a while for that window to close.
I just want to chime in here to add a point (or two) about the conversation around objectives in the GSG interview. The conversation was not actually about "losing the game before it started" although Joe does specifically say that, Will Pagani actually said that the goal was to avoid "Zombie Games" where the outcome is decided on Turn 1 or 2 and although you're playing 5 rounds, one player has pretty much locked it up and little actual fun is being had. Legion 2.6 secondary objectives can still fall to some bad choices leading to a scoring deficit but you're never scoring so much that you can't make up the difference by scoring more of the primary. This is quite different than Payload or Hostage where 100% of the total scorable points are blocked off from a mistake in deployment or list building.
They also specifically mention though they don't reiterate that they are mainly talking about Primary objectives and not secondaries. Scoring the secondary to max is only a requirement for "winning decisively" to quote Mike here. That does not mean that bad secondary play automatically tanks a game for a player. Secondaries are always worth less points overall specifically for this reason. Making them worth the same points would be a very bad choice for the health of the game.
one reason I started playing Shadow Collective mando lists in 2.6, is because all the printed cards in the box do exactly what the cards say (other than printed costs and full armor on the bus). it helps too that they are seemingly better than bse and pykes, unlike in 800 when, lets be honest, they were kinda dogshit. You can feasibly run just one of each of the corps, which means if you already have rebel mandos and busses, you could buy just the SC starter box and start running a new army
it's just annoying to either a. print new cards or b. look down at your stormtroopers and know they lost their black melee dice for two points and no legitimate reason. there should be an actual effort to keep the original texts compatible to a degree. A 2 point upgrade for storms that makes their melee black again, a -10 point upgrade that removes rebel troopers agile, etc It's a legit barrier to new players, too. If you don't have a printer, it's seriously annoying to try to teach the game to a new player when the cards are all different. It makes it seem like both you AND the game you're teaching don't have their shit together.
the player placed objectives instantly became absolutely stupid when units didn't panic off the board edge. That was the in-game balancing factor to objective placement, and to this day the worst legion change imo
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Good cast, good cast. Thanks for the holiday gift, guys!
AMG and their “production” issues are directly hurting newer players. Like the cast commented on, it’s hard to get into a faction if the core options aren’t/wont be available for a year yet.
With the cost of these expansions going up and up I’m glad I have a resin printer to make up the difference.
While I love the idea of a living game, I'm not keen on the way AMG is managing it. They really don't want fans to develop house rules - and yet they parse out these changes at a trickle that make it really difficult for new players to get comfortable with game play.
@ the new way the cards have been ruled out has caused a split in our local group. Some have them, some don’t, some just print a page out. It would have been much cleaner to have a pack ready for people to buy. Or faction based packs
@@AStrangeEvent Just use apps like tabletop admiral or legion hq. I don't actually even bring the cards to play anymore
The chess analogy is very interesting because in chess there are no choices to make in deployment, forces and objectives. To lose at chess you actually have to play the game badly. You can't lose because you think that putting the king on the front row will work. You can't lose by bringing a king and 30 pawns. Also, in chess, even when you lose key pieces in a bad trade or because you didn't see an angle, you can very often recover and win with good play. There's always a window and it takes a while for that window to close.
I just want to chime in here to add a point (or two) about the conversation around objectives in the GSG interview. The conversation was not actually about "losing the game before it started" although Joe does specifically say that, Will Pagani actually said that the goal was to avoid "Zombie Games" where the outcome is decided on Turn 1 or 2 and although you're playing 5 rounds, one player has pretty much locked it up and little actual fun is being had. Legion 2.6 secondary objectives can still fall to some bad choices leading to a scoring deficit but you're never scoring so much that you can't make up the difference by scoring more of the primary. This is quite different than Payload or Hostage where 100% of the total scorable points are blocked off from a mistake in deployment or list building.
They also specifically mention though they don't reiterate that they are mainly talking about Primary objectives and not secondaries. Scoring the secondary to max is only a requirement for "winning decisively" to quote Mike here. That does not mean that bad secondary play automatically tanks a game for a player. Secondaries are always worth less points overall specifically for this reason. Making them worth the same points would be a very bad choice for the health of the game.
That’s the stuff
Merry Christmas 🎉
What heavy did the Shawod collective guy use for the super commandos? And how do people normally build them?
Marksman, since they usually won’t have orders that jives well with the independent aim and makes the range 3 shot pretty darn good
one reason I started playing Shadow Collective mando lists in 2.6, is because all the printed cards in the box do exactly what the cards say (other than printed costs and full armor on the bus).
it helps too that they are seemingly better than bse and pykes, unlike in 800 when, lets be honest, they were kinda dogshit.
You can feasibly run just one of each of the corps, which means if you already have rebel mandos and busses, you could buy just the SC starter box and start running a new army
it's just annoying to either a. print new cards or b. look down at your stormtroopers and know they lost their black melee dice for two points and no legitimate reason.
there should be an actual effort to keep the original texts compatible to a degree. A 2 point upgrade for storms that makes their melee black again, a -10 point upgrade that removes rebel troopers agile, etc
It's a legit barrier to new players, too. If you don't have a printer, it's seriously annoying to try to teach the game to a new player when the cards are all different. It makes it seem like both you AND the game you're teaching don't have their shit together.
Super commandos are great at so many aspects of the new game. Just have to keep them alive. In melee they hit hard enough to cause problems
the player placed objectives instantly became absolutely stupid when units didn't panic off the board edge. That was the in-game balancing factor to objective placement, and to this day the worst legion change imo
What happened to Jay btw?