How Did Women Bhakti Saints Defy Patriarchy?
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- Опубликовано: 6 сен 2024
- How did women bhaktas use their devotion to reject patriarchal norms? Dr. Rekha Pande, historian, explains.
Credits:
Featuring: Dr. Rekha Pande
Edited by: Anahita Sachdev
Produced by: Shrishti Malhotra
Creative Supervisor: Karla Bookman
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Finding out that these women bhakti saints had rebelled in this way makes me think of them and their devotion in a totally different light
My pet dog is unable to fart because of patriarchy 😭😭
@@babathanos3116 ask your mother👩.
@@CancerDepartmentFeminismWing or it just can't digest the bullshit you feeding it??
My pet dog is unable to fart because of patriarchy 😭
@@ultimatetruth4156 I agree with you. My point is that swaddle, when you are painting the whole society in the colors of matriarchy and patriarchy, you should also know that not all men are bad just like not all women are good. In every religion, place, time, society, if there is someone good, there is also someone bad. Take the example of sri Ramakrishna paramhansa, he worshipped his wife sree ma Sarada Devi as his mother goddess kali. Take the other examples of Swami Vivekananda, sri Shankaracharya, Jyotirao phule, every single name I am uttering was a man who respected the women. I am not talking about hindu mythological gods, I am talking about real living men, girl. Even the fathers of the makers of this video, what about them. Are the videomakers saying they are also bad. Don't protray the whole society in a single frame. There is good and bad in everything. Also please if you are saying about meerabai say the full thing nah. According to meerabai there is only one single purusha in the universe, lord sri Krishna. The whole universe is prakriti of lord sri Krishna and this prakriti includes your so called men. Please don't politicise the names of meerabai and andal in the names of matriarchy and patriarchy, as they are above all these politics and gave up this materialistic world in the names of lord sri Krishna please.
Women from ancient India are such an inspiration 👏
@Ap these people will keep on arguing with you. Leave them it's pointless.
@@iu9130 no. Liar. Women in india less valued than cattle except mother in law
@@markalexander7191 you are delusional
Also does that mean your daughter and your mom is less valuable than cattle?
@@iu9130 of course not. I say this to hindus because hindus kill million of baby girl and mistreat female orphans for son preference. If hindus dont di those thing, they passively agree on that and not doing anything to eleminate that. Many Hindus in india worshipping evil demon and satan by mistreating female orphans and kill baby girl . Another ridiculous superstition is only son can light fire for dead parents which lead to extreme son preference .
@@markalexander7191 worshipping evil demon ? Dude get a life. I can already tell by reading your comment that you belong to some Abrahamic cult.
Mira Bai is still confined to her royal house and her husband. As these are the only questions asked in exams. Much should be taught about these women to make feminism more main stream...
Bhakti movement was one of the most important religious movement , where individuals challenged patriarchy and caste hierarchy by defining their own religious aesthetics and deconstructed age old notions.
don't teach your son to respect every women, respect who respect you
Lol Nitish Kuswaha ! What you are telling is Marxist interpretation of Bhakti movement.
Andal, A South Indian Vaishnavite saint and the only female Alwar, Openly discusses sexuality towards lord Krishna in her work Nachiyar Tirumozhi..... But unfortunately, Vaishnavites these days denounce her work and call it vulgar.. But her other work Tiruppavai is extremely popular among South Indians..
Andal thought, imagined and had surreal vision that Vishnu is her husband. So those poems in which she expresses her love or intimacy towards him is regarded as a private conversation between two lovers or couple.
Whatever she mentioned in the poem is about her desires towards Vishnu. So I dont think it ought be out in public and recited by everyone.
Jayadeva's Gita govindam is also called shudra kaavya (inferior poetry) for this reason that he had used sexual imagery to describe the Raasa
@@pleejbayyahindinesanalbaas4949 But what might seem as physical intimacy to normal humans here - is the concept of Swātma rati or union with the highest consciousness or brahman same is with Rasa Krida in Vrindavan with Gopis and Krishna
@@chaitanyavarada6737 If u have that bond urself with the God, then it's Swatma meeting Paramatma. Gopis gave general concept...didn't go in details. But if someone else is reciting their experience then it's just like describing a feeling. U have to see it for urself.
You have to understand the impact of colonial and Cristian thought on the indian religious thought ...they are denounced because of their sexuality and explicit nature of expression it does not fit the morality of Victorian Christian mentality .... We adopted unknowingly these thinking
the patriarchs even questioned a woman"s relationship with god. like wtf
As they should. Love for God is fine. But when we say jogi or jogan, irrespective of the gender, man, woman, or anywhere in between, if you're married to someone and don't give them time AT ALL, then obviously spouse can complain
Cheating is also emotional. Not just physical.
@@dOVERanalyst The problem arises when they expect their spouse to devote all the time to them and their family, leaving little time for personal growth and happiness. This happens more-so-often with the women of the house.. so the lifestyle changes that these women brought is a rebellion to be celebrated, not scrutinized.
@@Qwerty-jc3so What you're saying is right but that does not make your conclusion correct.
One wrong cannot make another wrong right.
Too much of everything is bad.
From what I've read, (I'd played Meera Bai in childhood),...Meera didn't give 1 second to her husband, ever. Even when she was with her, all she said was Krishna.
Yes, her husband's family wanted to kill her. But I genuinely don't remember the husband being bad to her at all. (Correct me if I'm wrong)
But generally if a husband is devoted to wife and wife is devoted to God, where her "personal time for prayer or whatever personal pursuits" is 24*7, the whole life and not a second to the family, then that's not great either.
YES, a woman should have time for herself.
But 100% personal time 0% husband or family isn't correct either.
@@dOVERanalyst instead of begging from others, people should love themselves
Because Girl's Parents got married them at very little age,that's why Girls couldnot complain about their marriages and they had to live in an unwanted marriage....But when a woman go to Spirituality then nothing can stop them to leave the unhappy marriage
Suggestion for a vdo 🙏🏻- Pls make a vdo on the rights of children. Do parents have authority on their children because they give them shelter , food and access to education?
A teenager who has everything she can wish for , good food , clothes , education , security , everything - but does she have a right to question the parents , does she have the right to refuse their beliefs and follow her own , does she have the right to make amendments in the working of the family for the better ?
Really a good suggestion.
Something all teenagers will understand and learn from
Patriarchy is needed to be defied and Equality should be embraced. In patriarchy a womans rights is often put in peril or its treated as a disgrace.
Mirabai definitely defies patriarchy and even Brahmanism in a way. She refused to be in a marrige and led a very simple life, what u will call a sadhvi perhaps and sung bhakti songs along with a a lower caste man. ( Correct me if I am wrong, am still learning.)
How it's Brahminism ? 🤨🧐
Make a video on this topic:
Why do misogynists think they give free food and shelter to housewives? A housewife does all household chores and take care of kids. If you hire a full time maid and nanny they will charge 10000+. Moreover housewives bring dowry. If you still think your dad gives free food and shelter to your mom then kindly go to toilet and flush yourself!
Yes and those high class women who dont work and simply eat is because they belonged to a very opulent family and that is why they have maids for everything. But it doesnt apply to every women of india. Mostly are middle class. So yes misogynists should flush themselves in toilet now. Hahaha
Right. I see such comments on every video on swaddle. It is very annoying. Now if i see such comments i will only say < flush yourself>
I'll tell you something about my friend's ex.
We were sitting together one day and talking about our careers and all. This happened when I was in my 3rd year of Engineering.
So when she was asked, her reply was this.
She: I want to marry a rich guy who can feed me.
Me: Alright. That's impressive. But wouldn't you want to do anything else? Like maybe become a very successful CSE?
She: No. There's too much of working in that. I just want to lead a life full of securities. The very reason I wish to marry a rich guy. He should be taking me to malls 3-4 times a week. That's a minimum thing.
Me: Okay. Alright. So why are you studying Engineering, when your primary goal can be accomplished by just about anybody?
She: Well. I really don't want to study. Just because of my dad am here.
Me: Interesting.
She ACTUALLY left my friend because he was not giving INR 1.5-2 Lakhs to her friend (whom he doesn't know) for an apparent accident that he had met with.
Not generalising anything here. But there's nothing binary here.
Then why do they take alimony after beating husband and when he takes divorce, they claim alimony when they are not doing housework after divorce?
Even if a housewife don't do anything they get free food and shelter and alimony. Husband earns and mother in law cooks and wife eats food. Housewife bring alimony to marry rich grooms.
To Akka Mahadevi Lord Shiva is her lover, Mira look apon krishna as a husband.
But when we think the opposite way male bhaktas can't even imagine the same for Goddesses, it becomes so wierd. Worshipping them like 'mother' becomes the only way
U made a wonderful point over there! 👍
because in patriarchy men do whatever they want to , praying goddesses as mother is the only thing which makes the patriarchy have some respect for the women. Women doing the other way is about challenging the norms.
Do you know there were male krishna bhakts that dressed like women and believed krishna as their husband.
I suddenly remembered a dialogue from the movie badhaai ho of a typical indian man! ' Ma ko bhagwan banaado. Pedestal pe bithaao aur yeh bhool jao ki woh ek wife bhi hai aur ek aurat bhi!'
@Ap umm there are virgin goddesses actually! Not all are married!
I think there is one thing to deffernitiate ...first these women were not thinking of defying some patriarchy .their prime aim was the salvation ...it is how should we read about these women in context of patriarchy is much of consideration to historians however when we apply feminist point of view ,we should not limit ourselves to just that view ...in india , there were always spaces for 'other' to exist and ironically they often expressed through religion rituals god and goddesses ...
swaddle has miles to go before sleep :)
thank god I found this channel ✨.
Amazing ! Never thought of Women Bhakti in this perspective.
This is what modern feminism needs to learn, less words more action.
Never thought of it this way.
Another superb video
Please upload the whole video
Full podcast is on their website
Please make a video on the topic of fake feminism.
@@ultimatetruth4156 no
@@ultimatetruth4156 Get some knowledge man don't shit anything.
Okay, but women too view men as a desruption.......it's attraction that's considered fatal, meera also sacrifices her husband 😅. Exploiting Religious Emotions......where do y'all come from, you want to see everything from a lense, from a narrative......it's unfair you would thusly accuse these great women and question their whole Existence
Please talk about plight of women in radical Islamic culture if you have guts.
They will not. So called brave feminists are scared to talk about I$lam 😂
lol then please use your original "male" name if you have guts.
@@sciphilo754 lol then please use your original "female" name if you have guts.
Wellll what u write !!!?I can't seee okayyyy😂😂😂
They won't the " brave feminists " are scared that they will get their heads chopped
Love it! Interesting video!
Please make some videos about why Women can't become Maulvis in Islam ???
Dear Swaddle, dont indulge our bhaktas into your feminism and other agendas. I too, like any other woman wants equal rights in the society and defy the patriarchy culture. But the thing is, you are introducing our bhaktas firstly as 'feminists' and 'activists'. First of all, they weren't at all interested in this shit. We, the normal humans care about it, they didn't. They knew that everything is maya. They didn't care about any rights or stuff, their only connection was god and if Akka Mahadevi used to walk out naked, it wasnt a protest, it was her devotion. Thet were bhaktas, not normal women like us, and we will never get even a 0.1% of their devotion on our lives because we ourselves are looking at them as 'protestors' or 'feminists' instead of their sole indemnity i.e. Bhakta. No matter the host was how big historian or what. I didn't like her introduction and pov towards those women at all, she pulled the bhaktas identities into materialism. Anyways, this is a broad concept, a lot broader than any experience or knowledge. I pray to god, may one day everyone gets to know and feel it.
Hare Krishna
Well said..
If you look down on yourself and your existence, keep it yourself.
Each person is their own, they were revolutionary in their own times, and we are in our own.
If you dont agree with these ideas you don't need to see this video, much less comment on it.
Do not belittle people's sufferings and their fight for what they think is right, you just aren't good enough for all that.
@@Kiiiiiiiie I look down on my existence because I'm aware of their existence. We are no one but ppl indulged in pleasing ourselves instead of doing real stuff like meera bai and all
@@drishtisharma6392 you defend toxic patriarchy? Maybe you tolerate female infanticide and mistreatment of female orphans which mean you are worshipping satan and evil demon. Toxic patriarchy and male chauvanism in hindu sanatan dharma make hindus worshipling devil and evil demon in form of female infanticide and mistreatment of female orphans. India has a lot of satanic and devil worshipppers
Hi.. can u make a video of patriarchy’s effect on notion of menopause and how it shadows the psychological trauma related to menopause. Patriarchy is one of the main reasons why v don’t come to know of our mother’s state of mind during menopause. I cudnt support my mother during that phase but others shud not ignore this aspect..!
Lol! Imaginary problems require Imaginary solutions.
u came out of a woman u know right.!
a hindi translation of this would be great
Thank you. Loved the video
2:03 did she?😱 Savage queen 🔥🔥🔥🔥
@@AARTISINGH-tp9sx what's your problem if she does? That's upto her all right? If u can't stand it then get lost!!!
@@AARTISINGH-tp9sx 😂😂
@@grgayathri8905 r u mad??
I Dont think meerabai as a rebel or fought against patriarchy, she was conformist and as kumkum sangari in her article argue that meerabai leave one husband and go for another husband (which was lord krishna), she wore saffron and white which make her sadhvi (she isn't against patriarchy at all, she accept it and sadhvi were exception) and in her bhajan she always use sadhu and sakhi which confirm she is sadhvi, she confirm the rituals not rebelling against patriarchy, so we can call her a conformist rather than a rebel.
Another great video 👍
I love this video but saying they were ‘exploiting religious sentiments’ is simply ignorant! Their love ( intimate, bridal pining) for their lord gave them strength to take on and negotiate with patriarchy! I also suspect Meera Bai might have been killed but it’s hard to believe she survived poisoning twice. Same with Kabir and Chaitanya Mahaprabhu! But they were extraordinarily skilled and strong because they ‘loved’ like no other!
Why some men here are so butthurt ? Feeling sorry for their mothers, sisters , wives and daughters .😒😒
Look up Deepika Narayan Bhardwaj on RUclips. You will see why.
@@saimaharaj109 i was talking about men in the comment section. I hope u know how to read .
@@samritichoudhary714 I can read. Can you read all the anti-men laws that are implemented in India's court?
@@saimaharaj109 if u have so much problem then go and file a pil in the court.😊😊
Yeah actually their ego got hurt 🤣😂
Wanna know more
the word "kaamini" is used to actually disclose man's intentions and not disregarding women.
someone who objectifies women and basically treats the girl merely as a way to fullfil sexual desires.
the focus is on you(man) thinking the girl as a way to get fullfilment..actually warning sign that ur intentions wont get fullfilled...its just ur personal desire (kamana) who is seeing the women's body..so in that context she is the (kaamini)
Therigatha may have to be included.
👍🏼
There's this bit from one of Bhartihari's poetry.
How all these 'saints' avoid the worldly delights and of course, women. And how ironical their aim is. They do all that while they are alive, so they reach heaven/the kingdom of gods/ salvation after their death... And what is awaiting there? Endless delights and divine apsaras.. 😁
heaven is for demigods. saints want moksha which is freedom from the cycle of rebirth. they don't care about apsaraa
Well moksha is abt meeting to parbrahm not with meeting apsaras
Women Bhakti poets were Don Quixote and they fought with the windmill of patriarchy! 😃😁😄😅😂
Congrats to actor kim seon ho. All the ads and movies he lost due to abortion scandal are finally back to me. People are changing for better
Please stop using words like "patriarchy" they do not apply to the Indian context. And the idea that there is no "history" of these female bhaktas is in relationship to the Western, largely Marxist telling of history. It is important for people to realize that it was early Christianity that destroyed the sacred feminine, including acts like destroying the murthy of the Godsess Athena in the Parthenon. Saints like Andal are widely discussed and venerated by Acharyas and Bhaktas of their respective traditions.
The swaddle u doesn't represent this women's
Watching and scanning Indian religious movement through western eye.
I think it is unfortunate, they entering into wrong path by discussing patriarchy like concept in bhakti movement.
So true.
You are the only ignorant who thinks Hinduism is like thisor.that, @NataN. Please get some life
@@reactorxpro894 Hm? Write the comment correctly, can't understand what ya trying to say here.
NO MARRIAGE = NO ALIMONY 😘😘😆
Well you misunderstood a lot . Let me throw more light on this. Due to a lot of reasons men's are extrasexual. And since our society & most of the societies throughout human history(known history or recorded history) are men dominated or patriarchal , so men's are more comfortable to express it or desire for it . According to Chanakya , womens are more sexual than men but they also have greater control over it than men . And now let's come to the question why religions & a lot of spiritual personalities have negative comments on women . Except Tulsi das I can assure you that other names which are mentioned in the video don't have wrong intentions for women . Their comments are negative because To get salvation is the most
Important achievement of life.
& Despite following a religion, most of them don't even put honest efforts towards this . That's too because , they are preety much indulged in the materialism & get over from it . Sex is also one of these things that men can't get over . Just imagine a saint like Buddha or kabir trying to make someone salvation prone & the guy saw a
Beautiful women , likely results are his mind will divert. So These are the reasons.
Yes , you maybe right. Buddha actually was positive towards the inclusion of women in his Sangha.
@@nitishkushwaha1173 when first time womens approached Buddha , Buddha denies . But that was not due to buddh is some anti women or something like that . It was because inclusion of women may distract the Sangh.
@@khagenbudo398 No, I think the argument that inclusion of women would distract is sexist, the similar kind of argument was also used to deny entry of women in library in AMU. And who we are to include them ? They are half of the population, if a spiritual movement can't give spirituality and salvation to half of the population then what is its meaning, why women never accuse men of distraction ?
@@nitishkushwaha1173 I don't know about AMUs intentions behind the decision . Now come to your other question , give me some time , I will try to know about it & after that I will reply you with sound logics .