I fixed Phil's PC... You'll NEVER guess what the problem was!
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- Опубликовано: 7 окт 2023
- If you can figure out what went wrong then you get a cookie!
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Lock rotor current for the fan could be what was causing the ocp. Current for stuck electric motors can be 6-8x higher than normal
yep this
Came here to say the same.
Yup, it's a fan thing. Some fans do have a locked rotor sensor, not sure about Lian Li fans, though.
@@war4peace1979these are brushless fans with control boards. The control board is clever enough to know that. Even my cheapo Amazon random fan does.
The problem is, it will reset and retry every a few seconds. So every time it tries to start, it's gonna send a spike to PSU.
When CPU and GPU are on full power, this extra load could easily overload the PSU.
Yup thought the same. Actually I was thinking about that poor fan header, thing coulda melted with that much juice
Jay, as someone who just did their first water cooled build and ran into countless issues, im very thankful that you not only show all your successes, but also all the speed bumps you encounter along the line. Thank you for not only the knowledge, but the example of the patience it takes to get these systems working when doing it yourself.
Genuinely. If it weren't for Jay and his willingness to show his successes as well as his failures I'd have ripped most of my hair out with my pc issues.
@@IamKingSleezy broo ive literally just sat back took a breath and asked myself What Would Jay Do??
Yeah, I had stopped doing water cooling back in the early '00s because of all the issues that would crop up. I'm now getting back into it because of modular PSUs, high quality crossflow rads, mobo-integrated flow and temp sensor inputs, availability of monoblocks meaning I don't need a separate cooler for VRMs, and Uni Fans and other direct-attach daisy-chain fans reducing the clutter. It's just taking me a while to get all the parts since the QD's I want are always out of stock. I can get one every few months at best, and I need at least 4.
@@mariomunoz525 easily the best advice that Jay has given, at least for me, is "Take a deep breath, there's no need to panic. Panic doesn't help you think."
The best advice. Because if something is already broke, freaking out isn't going to fix it.
This is actually why i watch Jay2Cents. Videos like this is why Jay is one of the best. Thanks for showing us all of these!
Tell Phil that using the "peel fail" audio as part of the music drop was GENIUS
Phil's music is sooo good!
a literal drop
that shit cracked me up!!! i swear i cant get enough of their video's and then when they add little stuff like this it just makes the video even better!
I laughed my ass off it was perfect
Some mobo's have a setting that if the CPU fan header reports no RPM, the system will shutdown. There is also the chance that a stuck fan draws multiple times more power. This is why if you stop a fan with your hand then let go, it takes it a second to kick back on. I imagine there are a certain number of times it tries to start the fan before it shuts down the system.
Yea usually the bios throws a fan error code in those situations. But once you're past windows boot screen it'll ignore the issue until overheat or whatever kicks in from lack of airflow. However this situation was different because the fan header was getting a signal due to daisy chaining, but as you suggested, the fan that wasn't spinning was drawing more current instead, probably hit more than 4x the normal current draw when Phil set it to 100%.
Youve been building computers for as long as Ive been alive, that puts things into perspective quickly lol
lol good point.
Its these old boys who clearly had a copy of x copy professional on there Amigas yer want to watch.
Experience is experience said some movie i cant remember.
This guy is legit.
@@krowbar2009 Some of us were working/using computers from before Amigas were a thing. 286, 386, even ZX 81s and Spectrums.
@@krowbar2009 Ah, I miss my C64 & Amiga 500.
You really miss things like load'"*.*",8,1 or perforating a little square out of a 5.25" floppy to be able to use both sides ? But then again it was the C=64 back in 82 that started this journey of learning curves to be taken throughout the decades, but having those foundations as a base knowledge, THAT is hard to explain to following generations, who learned it all from a windows like type of user interface, we had DOS, not an occasional command prompt etc etc... Amazing that the 64K was enough mem for playing most of the arcade games at home back then...@@joelchojnacki .... and oh that day we discovered copyIIpc xD
awesome catch. this is the beauty of troubleshooting... look for clues and then use your experience and logic to figure it out. nice one
That PC looks as amazing as I imagined.
Sfx/mini-itx PCs are my favorite, and I really appreciate when people try a custom water loop in them.
Its always the smallest thing causes the biggest issue! Great content Jay, and enjoy the build Phil!
Having the fan physically blocked made the PWM send it full power to try and get it going. I think in that situation the amount of current draw can be considerably higher than even at 100% fan speed.
I've been building PCs for about as long as Jay, and I've seen some really weird issues. It's frustrating, but also a good feeling when you figure it out.
Motors draw massively over their rated current when starting. Even a few seconds of that is bad news
@@donaldslayerYeah. I'm not a complete expert on computers, but I am an industrial electrician. Locking the fan rotor could maybe cause many times the normal running current. Easy way to burn out motor if it doesn't have the correct overload protection
@@donaldslayerbrushless PC fan motors don't actually behave like that since their drive electronics is current feedback.
Looking good ... and great thermals on that powerful lil monster ... and the computer too Phil 🙂 Nice work Jay
Wow! Glad you’re good at troubleshooting. Loved seeing you explain your thoughts, cause, and solution
The most bizarre problem I've seen for a long time (building computers for about 20 years). Well done, Jay, good fix.
A first for me as well. I'm messing around with PCs for 25 years now and I've seen a lot fans acting up and dying before but never saw them triggering OCP if they are not allowed to rotate. If it was the motherboard that didn't recognize the fan spinning it would've either not booted at all or shut down immedately. So I think that fan or the two together altered the PWM signal in such a way that the signal line back to the board basically shorted.
I guess if you think you've seen it all you probably don't.
Same here, dealing with computers for over 85 years i have never seen this before.
The first fan in the daisy chain sends the rpm signal back to mb header. That fan not spinning could have been tripping the mb's CPU fan fail protection. Also PWM means Pulse Width Modulation which is the method that the mb uses to control the speed of the fans and is not related to the the rpm signal being sent from the fan back to the mb.
Ah hue are correct my good sir...
Beat me to it, I said the same thing. I support these automated Smart Markets that use PWM for their LED Light Panels and you can see the flicker of the panels cycling on/off if you turn the PWM down enough. People always complain about it. "Yeah, that's normal."
@keithvsmith if your using pwm to control your led panels you should probably use the correct power connector... some led panels come with what looks like a pwm header but all led panels are controlled with either 5v or 12v, they are not actually controlled by a pwm style header... if you are using the pwm on your motherboard to power your leds you might want to find some sort of adapter for your pwm style header so you can connect to the proper 5v or 12v header!!! On another note like he said in the original post, pwm means pulse width modulation... a led or light emitting diode is not powered by a pulse and has no width to modulate... they are powered with direct current and any flashing is done with a computer controlled chip that actually fluctuates direct current to the diodes.... now it is possible to power them via pwm module but I don't advise it... use the proper rgb header or power header from your psu to power your led control panels please... that message looked like some sort of Troll...I hope this helps you tbh...
@@rkaidag74 Might want to reread what I typed, this wasn't for a Computer... It was about going off how PWM or Pulse Width Modulation works. It's an On/Off duty cycle, so if you set it to 80, it's on 80% of the time and off 20% instead of being voltage controlled.
@keithvsmith I think you might be confused... the percentage is a total... the actual pulse modulation is to control the magnetism of the fan so it doesn't have so much perpetual motion the motor cannot keep up... the percentage your seeing is total power output bud... it doesn't actually effect the pulse modulation, that happens automatically it only increases or decreases the total percentage of what's being modulated.... like an engine on a boat going downstream vs upstream....!!!
So crazy that that's what the problem was. With all the high-tech stuff that we deal with in computers... I guess Phil's a lot happier now! And for Techtober you got TWO videos out of it!
I just wanted to say that the system looks great after the upgrades! I use that same color blue on my system except it is a slow breathing mode instead of static. Great job on getting it working and letting us know what happened!
Thanks for sharing the fix. It would be interesting to do an A/B power draw comparison between a freely spinning fan and one that you hold fixed. Pretty sure a stuck fan pulls more power and the motor itself can over heat.
It can be 5-10 times more, depending on the motor and the voltage, if I recall correctly
Really enjoying this Series again this Year Jay, Thank you.
I love Jays videos and the patience he has to troubleshoot and not figuring something out teaches you something new and to change your moethod in building a water cooling system for super small cases. The part that made me laugh the most and it made my night honestly, When the music started and he's pulling the film off the glass and the glass flew off 😂😂😂 I was in tears.
Thank you Jay for being the only youtuber that is not afraid to show that something didn't work out and didn't take out of the montage, That gives people confidence to keep trying to learn how to figure things out.
In all honesty I only enjoy and love Jays videos as number one source for me, Gamers Nexus was my first then he started making long ass boring videos with all due respect and i love his work, But too long is boring and not good for content cause people don't have the patience nor the time to watch 40 to 60 minutes of talk and no action.
Great having you my main source Jay, And that will be it. Jay then Gamers nexus then last MKBHD sor electronics and especially for Smartphones.
24hrs turn around is really good.. usually its like a week cause you found more issues when building and more parts/fittings/brackets get ordered.. and finally you have to actually dremel part of the case to fit a bracket.. ah, the process.
I love these videos. A lot of the time you watch a video on how to build a PC and end up sitting there saying ... "yeah but it is not doing that, what do I do now?". These types of videos help figure out problems which aren't obvious. Thanks Jay for being awesome!
Every build I've ever done I always make sure every fan in the system is turning. Never take it for granted.
I suspect a jammed fan may draw more current which may have been too much for cpu fan header.
Sounds very similar to airplane recirc and or equipment cooling fans, when bearings go out or having excess current draw from gunk build up, etc to reach that operating speed. Always pops that breaker. Kinda cool info that it relates to computers in some sort of fashion as well lol. Thanks for the uploads Jay!
It’s an attribute of electric motors that the current increases when the mechanical load on the motor increases. A broad number of applications (like 3.5 inch disc drives or instrument clusters) actually use this effect to e.g. detect the dead stops. (turn the motor until current rises above a threshold)
A blocked motor draws three times or more current than if it’s not blocked
Hey Jay, maybe you could 3d print some spoilers for the thin fans underneath (same thickness as the case feet extenders) to hide the fans and their wires. Very nice build!
Wild I actually did have an idea what was going on, only because I've encountered a very similar issue. Mine was caused by a GPU fan though, where the middle fan out of the 3 wasn't spinning and causing OCP shutdowns. That sure was a fun one to figure out because the temps were fine, and presisted after swapping out the power supply. Fans can be hard to diagnose, especially in my case where I couldnt see if they were all moving or not.
I've been struggling with this issue in my Corsair One i145 for months and I thought I was losing my mind. Corsair, GeekSquad, friends in IT-no one could figure it out.
I finished my nr200p hard line build just before you guys did. I had so much fun but it was also a bunch of hard work but Allina all super happy. Used the the new ique link fans. Thank you for all the great help over the years with all my watercooled builds!!!
Unscrewing and screwing the case a hundred times during this video alone! Building and fixing PCs is more a therapy to himself than maintenance for the PC :-). I love it when you love, what your doing, man!
could also be a unconscious advertisement for the Linus Screwdriver.
I'm guessing the first fan is the only fan it's reading acting as a "master". Similarly, fan hubs have one header that acts as the fan rpm reader.
Good catch! I had a similar issue with an old turbine fan from Cooler Master in the early 00s. For some reason the motherboard couldn't see the CPU fan even when it was spinning and would shut down. Took a while to figure it out.
Sweet, nice work. Yes, it's electrical, the mechanical hindrance will ask the system to push it more (current) til something break or some protection kicking in. Great channel btw
I really gotta admit. The editing of your videos, cutting at the right times, sound effects, jokes, music is on another level compared to most tech channels. Really good job to Phil or whoever else is included. PROPS !
Great troubleshooting! To test your theory, did you try manually stopping the fan to see if you achieved the same fault? Just curious.
Well done jay and Phil is lucky to have such a good boss I hope he appreciates his situation.
It's always the darndest things. Glad you were able to figure it out and get it fixed!
Something inside the system was triggering a sort of "no CPU fan signal".
Says it's not clickbait, continue with a vague intro to the video to lure you even further! Clever moves Jayz :P
Love this videos showing all the thought process, not right away the solution
All right Jay. It has been many many months since you promised us an update and or a video about you working with Northbridge fix and we have heard nothing from you. It is time for you to keep your promise.
Do it!
Not a big fan of itx but this little unit looks great.
Good job on that diagnosis.
ITX doesn't really do big fans, so it's probably for the best.
(I'll see myself out)
Glad I didn't have to wait too long to find out the RCA.
Edit: The PWM can probably only handle a certain amount of amperage. When that fan was trying to turn but couldn't I imagine the amperage shot through the roof and overloaded the circuit.
The PWM line isn't carrying the current that is driving the fan. That goes through the 12V and GND wires. The PWN line is a digital signal to controll the relative on/off times of the fan to reach the desired speed.
Satisfying conclusion to this build. NICE find/fix. Also satisfying b-roll/ montage. :D
I love the followup video! This is so great. Thanks again for sharing. Love your videos.
Well with PWM on the MB would see a fan not spinning and send more voltage and with it not being able to turn would cause a fault for sure. It's great to see safeguards actually working as intended. Back in the day you would generally smoke your board and or PSU.
That's not how that works. The voltage is constant 12V through the 12V supply line. The PWN signal is switching the fan on and off constantly according to it's setting in order to control the speed.
@@SirLugash Oh I thought when a electric motor is unable to spin that the subsequent power feedback would pop a breaker like on every electric motor that has one built in. As these fans do not it would trigger the MB or PS which would be the the next layer of protection. I know that they run on 12v but the PWM regulates that voltage to slow or speed up the fan to control the temp is that not how that works? I do understand Fan curve but I wasnt sure that is what Jay said I thought they set them to 100% and that energy has to go somewhere. not an expert on it just seemed logical .
@@SirLugash When a motor is stuck, it can cause a spike in current.
This can melt a wire, or blow a fuse.
But why? What exactly is happening here?
Which values are going up, and which are going down?
Volts = Amps * Resistance
Watts = Amps * Volts
@@steveseybolt Considering the low amount of power those fans are designed for, they would probably catch fire before being able to overload a supper supply. The PWM signal technically causes voltage regulation inside the fan by turning it on and off for relative intervals which averages out for the requested speed. However it will not cause the PSU or Motherboard to "send more voltage" as the 12V line is constant.
That makes sense so PWM saved the fan I like it ! @@SirLugash
Hey Jay I appreciate all the videos you post man, keep up the great work💪
Very helpful and glad Phil's system is working!
Have been watching back some of the older JayzTwoCents videos and this truck to me. I remember one time when I re-organized my room and disconnected my PC whilst doing it. Once everything was plugged back in, PC didn't start. Nothing worked.
What in the end caused it was a specific USB device in either one of TWO specific USB ports that just caused the PC not to power on at all. No Bios screen, no nothing. Moved the USB device to a USB extension card and another USB device from the extension card to the MB USB port.
This was some 15-20 years back or something
Moral of the story; get a bigger case! 👀
Thank you for not giving up and figuring it out. I'm a motorcycle technician and I see it every day. People get stuck and give up. I have to explain to them that I learned more from not giving up than I ever did in a classroom.
Lmfao
I walked at a friend's garage a few summers ago, and realized just how much is understanding basic concepts, and using those to figure out what the problem is.
Phil that was AMZING. I absolutely love his edits and that beat. Keep it up!
Given the amount of space, that build is looking pretty awesome. I really like the subtle look with the minimum LEDs on it.
I wonder if due to lack of air cooling won't the VRMs and chipset on the MB get too hot?
Usually not a problem anymore even on ITX boards as the VRMs used are way overkill for the cpu's even for an 13900k.
+ on most higher end boards the 90amp power stages are used which are not only overkill but have their peak efficiency at around 70-80c!
Very good catch Jay, I would've bet it was the cut riser but the fans triggering a ocp makes sense now that fans are daisy chained and possibly caused too much resistance for the header to be safe so it triggered a protection. Also Cutting a pcb is usually never a good idea so keep the new one on hand just incase lol. Keep up the good work!
Kind of, but common misconception about electricity.
Having higher resistance is actually easier on the circuit and power source, because that electricity is only going to flow as quickly (amperage) as the circuit will allow, which is why a direct short that offers almost no resistance is a very bad thing, but having bulbs, appliances, and other electronics is safe, because it slows the rate of electricity.
You have great patience! I would have tossed it out of a window by now!!
*THANKS FOR THE VIDEO!!!*
The montage went hard af dude. I recently upgraded to a 4K monitor and watching that in 4K with a good headset for that bass was dope af.
that's amazing. Excellent job in figuring that out
Learned some valuable information through this troubleshooting exercise. That's always a win, great job.
I love my NR200, it's awesome to be able to take apart an ITX system and work on it without having to rip everything apart. Happy flying Phil, keep the blue side up!
That's great that Phil's PC is finally working and we see thermal improvement and they don't seem small at all.
I would love to have a video on setting up the intel extreme software in the BIOS, I have not been able to get it working for my new i9 12900KS. I'm missing something in the BIOS and would love to have you do a full rundown on it!
primo tech tip learned from this Jay! It is amazing, even with me, that sometimes the littlest thing causes the biggest of issues! Thanks for sharing brother!!
PS: That build is SICK!!
That is a pretty cool build Jay, congrats Phil on a sweeeeet PC.
Great video , thanks for taking us along the whole ride 😊
The side panel falling off during the montage was priceless! That's why I'm subscribed. 😂
Great that you could figure this one out. Had a similar issue once with a Fractal AIO where one of the three fans on the radiator stopped turning (bad bearing?) unless you provided it with >85% of it's rated speed which in turn caused pretty bad cooling performance. At that point it would start turning, but at a much slower speed than the other fans. Took me a few days to figure that out.
Phils finished build montage videos are best in class as usual, looks awesome. Kudos to you sir.
Odd issue, good job figuring it out.. system looks nice all put together.
That sometimes happens with me too. When i clean up my PC and re assemble it back it just doesn't want to turn on. Because all the USB slots are occupied are connected. So that's a really good video jay. Power can sometimes be complicated. And in my case it's the USB connected to my printers. And my PC sees it's pulling unusual power from usb and it shuts down. For me it's just to remove every USB connection except keyboard + mouse + monitor (my monitor also have a USB hub connected so remove it too). Then it's all fine. Let the PC run for a time then connect each USB one at a time and good to go.
Getting actual flashbacks from building my wife's ITX machine a few years back...
Glad you got it sorted, thanks for sharing!
Can I just say, was listening to this in my car. Montage music kicks in and it freaking bumps quite nicely.
Oh my, I had the exact same problem with a build on this case for a customer of us, it would unexpectedly shut down without showing any problems with temps. We left the build unused due to this poltergeist.
I'll check tomorrow if there is some fan blocked from turning....
It’s not because of the PWM, it’s because the rotor is locked which causes the motor to overheat and trip the OCP. Great job in finding that one, don’t have a lot of space to work with in that case!
I also have come across the fan problem before where temps are unusually warm. It made noise too. I add custom cardboard cut out washer for the grill and it solve the temp issues
37 years ago was 1986, the year I got my Timex Sinclair w/ cassette tape storage. Next was the Commodore64, Zenith desktop, followed by Amiga then build my own since. Psygnosis flight sims and Papyrus NASCAR MMO thru dialup, had to build my own wheel and pedals. So yes, it has been an exhausting journey to the conflicts of today, which are much less but on an exceedingly complex level. IRQ conflicts were the good ole days, and learning why Celerons were cheap. Hope my present system holds because I have had enough, 12600k w/ EVGA 1070TI AIO, great temps. Salute to you Jay for sticking with it, and thank you for inviting us along.
Jay, the easy way to fill these small loops is to have a section split by Quick Disconnects.
you open them up to attach an external pump-res or empty tone to fill/drain
I used to have random shutdowns where the culprit was a Corsair commander pro with a faulty fan header. The funky thing is the faulty fan header wasn't even in use... I only found out when I needed the faulty header and RMA'd it... After it was changed no more random shutdowns.
This is such a dope SFF powerhouse. Thank you for taking us along on the ride.
Most unexpected problem we ever had on a completely new build was a bad IDE cable. Yes, it was a while ago, but, a bad new cable is very rare. It would boot fine, somewhere during installing Windows it would conk out. You start checking other things first, HD, Mobo, PSU, even memory, CPU, the chances of it being a brand new bad cable is just astronomically low in comparison because it's such a simple part.
I love the NR200P MAX case. Phil's PC looks amazing now. Mine has a custom loop similar to a lian li q58 and it's also pretty good.
Great job Jay (and friends)!
I have been restricting my home builds to big high quality cases ( like the Lian li O11 evo xl) for years because I hated working in cramped conditions ever since the time of the cheap beige 'cut-any-finger-you-dare-in' generic brand cases.
I can see now how that helps dodge the weirdest pitfalls.
As soon as you said that the one fan was plugged into the cpu fan header, I KNEW that it had to be a problem with a fan not spinning. A buddy of mine was having issues with his PC a while back (it was jank and super budget should be explanation enough i hope) and he was having problems with his PC constantly shutting off and crashing after his cpu fan quit working. He had taken the side panel off and pointed a box fan into it as an alternative to cooling his cpu instead of buying (at the time) a $30 cpu fan for his specific fin stack. He was so confused as to how he was having problems weith better thermals than before, but would crash every time he launched ANY game. It wasn't until he plugged in a new CPU fan to his cooler and never had a problem again. Its probably some protocol with the instruction set of the CPU itself (or motherboard) that if the thing that is supposed to cool the cpu isnt doing the thing its supposed to do, to shut down to prevent thermals geting out of hand and damaging the chip
Wild.. Nice set up again guys!
Out of all my guesses as an i.t./PC repair tech, I would have never guessed that. Good info to put in my toolbox of knowledge 😁
Nice fix. That is one nice looking PC now. Phil is one lucky guy. I love when you run into issues, not to make you life miserable, but so we can all learn. Great video.👍
This helped me out a lot I had this same problem with my laptop almost bought a new one because it couldn’t turn on and found the fan was not spinning and after removing the back of the laptop it work just fine😊 just had to loosen the screws.
It's relieving to see that stupid things can happen to ANYONE of us.
I can't remember how many times my head wanted to hit the desk in my 25 years of building my own systems.
Just built 3 new PCs. One of them was having terrible stuttering and trouble posting. After replacing everything, draining my bank account and tearing my hair out in the process; it turns out it was a faulty pcie riser cable from cooler master. Same one I used in one of the other builds. So frustrating, yet so simple.
I use low profile 140mm fans under my O11 Air Mini. Works great and allows me to mod the vertical bracket to put it closer to the bottom so it doesn't cut off the CPU cooler when looking at it..
very interesting build! i love it! nothing like Jay cant solve! GG!
Looks amazing.
I had the same problem with my nr200p build with the fan. My cpu power cable was pushed up against the fan grill because I ran it up over my air cooler. The insane thing was it only happened sometimes at certain temperatures due to thermal expansion.
Idk how many times i've seen that WoWarships ad. but It never gets old. also, you look damn good as a captain, sir.
wow who woulda have thought that!? thats a crazy problem to have and prob super super rare to happen 😮
gz Phil, good u get ur comp back up and running ^^
This little beast turned out so sick! Congrats Phil!
I just wish that Jay had flipped the bottom rad over so that the Corsair logo would be right-side-up like it is on everything else. Unless the Corsair rads only have ports on one side of the end tanks, which I wouldn't think they would do. Lol.
Thanks for the awesome video Jay!
Wow what an expected solution.... nice find!
Missed oppotunity Jay...
Should have done a montage of a disassembled system, just for the giggles :)
It's always nice/fun to see these "this weird shit happened" videos... I've messed around with computers for over 20 years... I would have never expected such a problem to be a fan
12:48 Noob guess - since it's a daisy chained PWM - it got some sort of PID error since PMW is technically a PID controller of sorts depending on how it's programmed? I think?
Jay, there's a few things going on here. The PWM signal is just that, low voltage a control signal, telling the fans how quickly they should spin. Even with the one stuck fan, the signal will pass through correctly allowing the second fan to spin as requested. This tells me that no weirdness was going on with the control PWM signal at all.
The power required to spin the fans is coming from 12v, and the stuck fan, trying to spin at the requested speeds, would have used a ton of current trying to start spinning, this is what tripped the OCP for the 12v rail.
I don't know how those fans handle reporting their own rpm when they're daisy chained, but normally it's just from the first fan in the chain and subsequent fans are just assumed to be doing the same, or almost the same, as the first. Ideally it should read as zero rpm as the fan wasn't spinning, but it's likely that the motor, pulsing current with every attempt at starting, flooded the tachometer signal with garbage that the motherboard couldn't decipher.
nice work and a good cache with the fan enjoyed the vid thanks
I might be wrong especially for modern mainboards, but old ones had CPU fans with notably higher power draw, if you used a old CPU fan with bad bearing (higher resistance) as chassis fan it could easily fry your motherboard.
If you think that one was hard to diagnose: I once had a power LED fail in a way where it was still working but drew too much power and shut down the PC (oc protection?). I tought I was going crazy because everything worked outside the case (where I didn't have the power LED connected) and the last thing you'd suspect is a working LED.
Great video glad it worked out, your a great friend jay