Thought I'd give a shorter overview of these 5 side by side. Have had loads of requests, so figured I'd make something easy to digest. Lot more cuts than usual, but it is in the hopes of giving you the down and dirty deets that may help your decision making process. Give a like and sub if you haven't and appreciate the work! Much love
Thanks for giving honest critique to each of the contenders! Very useful. Do you have any thoughts on Eureka Mignon Zero? (not to be confused with Mignon Single Dose, the angled one, which is a bit larger and more expensive) It's about the same price as Lagom Mini and Varia VS3 (and looks quite nice, too), but it does not appear to have received as much attention among coffee youtubers.
@@victorp.3444 weird how the price thing works across the world. Here in Canada, the Varia is $400CAD and the Eureka Zero is $750CAD. I was messaging Josh at Alternative brewing in Australia, and there it’s the Varia that’s the stupid expensive one. And Varia is a New Zealand company which has free trade with Australia…. He’s done reviews on all these grinders and was talking about a shootout video of his own, but not including the Varia because it’s in a whole different price bracket there.
Of all the grinders to do an abbreviated review: the one I wanted to know the most about!! 🙄 Keep up the excellent work. Ignore the singing-haters. Hater gonna hate.
Hard to beat Baratza support. I have a Vario and my parents have an Encore, both which went through Baratza's repair program after about 5-10 years of use and both came back working even better than when they were originally purchased.
My first Vs3 was dead out of the box. The adjustment mechanism was almost unmoveable and did not seem to adjust the grind size. When tightening it would get to a certain point (no where near zero) and sort of skip and loose all tension for a bit and then grip hard again, as well as a lot of movement and a screechy grind when the burrs were spinning. Took around a month to get a replacement as the distributor took a long time combined with crap post times. The replacement has been great since it arrived, and I am really enjoying it. I wanted the Ode Gen 2 originaly, but as of when I placed the order (December 26th) there was still not date for the Ode becoming available locally, they only turned up in late Feb, which still gave time for my Vs3 to arrive, be sent back and the replacement to arrive.
I have to say this is the one best video I need at this moment. I am choosing an electrical grinder for my gf and we needs it to be simple, aesthetic, great result and, relatively, good budget. This up-to-date video give the information I need. Thanks Lance
@@LanceHedrick i think your shorter ones tend to have better pacing and less.... space? literally just watched a 50m one of yours, didn't realize that long, and i ended up with it on in the background because i couldn't just actively WATCH. (again, pacing.) you did an amazing job here, short and to the point, short and sweet. the ones under 15m i think are really great. or if they are longer, that you are still high paced AS IF it were short. never seen the varia before so thank you for putting on here! :)
Great video, based on your 078 thoughts, it looks like the sculptor 064s should blow these out of the water at the $299 kickstarter price. Really excited to see your thoughts on it whenever we all get one
As someone who already has a very good filter grinder (Ode Gen 2), I’d love to see a comparison of espresso-only grinders, for those of us that want to get into espresso after being experienced with filter. Maybe it’s too small an audience, but I think it’d be interesting to look at grinders that focus purely on espresso, without consideration for filter. A reverse Ode, if you will.
This was me exactly and I got the Varia. It was available locally from good local dealers, no wait. Aesthetically it matches the ode perfectly. I've zero stalls in 3 months grinding light roasts for espresso. It is slow but that's not been an issue for me. Can't comment on shot quality versus these others, but I love the shots it makes.
I gotta ask! Just because it's hard kind of finding this exact scenario anywhere but if I have the Sette 30 upgraded with the 270 burrs for $210 and a Vs3 for $200 what would you specifically keep in your home? (I would like more focus on the espresso but also decent filter coffee)
I bought the Encore ESP. but I'm returning it. The espresso grinding is quite messy. The coffee powder just goes everywhere. I've ordered the VS3 instead. I like the build quality
oh wow! interesting! Did you use RDT? (ross droplet technique?) this should make it super clean. FYI you'll need to use the same (RDT) for the varia or it will be really messy from static.
Aaagh, this was the comment I was looking for. Cuz' I ordered the Varia VS3 but I am still leaning towards the more established companies like Baratza or Fellow.
I love your videos, it always brings a laugh on my face when you do you. Do you have the Eureka atom touch 65 on your radar for a test? I see it popping up on the internet, but there are no reviews of it.
Wondering if you have a list of grinders you’d recommend for those looking to enter the midrange, like the $300-500 range, after using an entry level Encore for about 5 years? Pretty easy question, I know 😂. Just for pour overs.
Commenting for the algorithm, and to say I'm in the exact same spot. I'm ready to move up from my Encore, willing to spend more but not too much more, and 100% pour overs.
Hey Lance! You stated that the same light Ethiopian tasted more floral with the Lagom and more fruity with the Varia. 6:50 Do you have any insight on what causes this? I have an Ethiopian coffee at home that I have thought of as fruity with floral hints, but the last time I brewed it, it was almost like jasmine tea it was so floral. I like both but am interested in how to control it or favor one way or the other depending on the day. Thanks for all the great content!!!
You should get a lazy Susan for blind cuppings, so to mix up the positions of the coffees and increase rng. I'm sure the other individual (I don't know your name, I'm so sorry!) Means well, but they might introduce a pattern, may introduce your bias.
just fyi- the tasting on camera is not singular. I do dozens upon dozens of double blinds in my studio leading up to videos. What I do on camera is a reflection of what is done off camera. Though, to be fair, what I shoot is always genuine. If it is completely different from my off screen testing, I usually say something.
But if you knew one on the lazy susan, wouldn't you then be able to know them all by their position? Unless you also had someone mix them up too. Just don't see it helping the rng really.
where did you get the clear ugly bellows from ☺ and why don't you sell it on your amazon store front? I don't care for looks at times when practicality serves better.😊
How does the Smart Grinder Pro compare to these as an allrounder? I am really attracted to the minimal design of these newer grinders and thinking about an upgrade after 5 years...
For $300 + I don't see any reason not to just spend a bit more for a DF64. It offers better value than any of these imo. It's good out the box, well built, good for any brew method and can be easily upgrade with cheap mods or any number of after market burr should you want them.
sure! I don't disagree! But many would. and want something ready out of the box that is easy to dial in. Flats are harder with a more narrow window. Cones are more forgiving.
You made a video about budget grinders where you recommended the akirakoki m520a but then I have yet to see you compare that class of grinder to anything outside of those videos. Why is it that you don't make that comparison especially given the nice things you had to say about those grinders
Your slurping has a lower frequency than what I find irritating. Maybe that’s the mic or the audio processing. If I was an acoustic technician, I’d make a video analyzing and comparing the slurps of the most popular coffee RUclipsrs.
You mentioned customer service, so I wanted to mention my experience with my Lagom Mini: I busted a little part within the motor chamber while it was out of warranty. I reached out to Option-O in hopes that I could purchase the part. Instead of that, they offered to send over a whole new motor and power brick, as long as I paid the shipping. And then I got detailed instructions to make the replacement myself. Whenever I upgrade, they’ll have my business.
that's fantastic to hear. i think customer service ends up being almost a bigger factor in purchasing a product than just price and features. it's the worst feeling when a company acts like they stand by their product, or give 100% customer satisfaction claims, only to leave you high and dry when something is messed up. i'll definitely look into Lagom now. Option-O sounds great!
This is great. Now we need a "Best Espresso-oriented Grinder for Beginners". Or maybe not beginners, but people who don't want to spend 500+ USD on a grinder, and rarely if ever make anything but espresso.
Introductory pricing on the Timemore 64s is supposed to be $300- and for that you get modern 64mm flat burrs, brushless dc motor, an auger, variable rpm, and a novel chaff/fines catcher on the output that Lance really likes. Plus it's compact. Probably your best option imo
Based on everything you stated, if I were in the market for a grinder in this price point I too would choose the Baratza ESP. However, I would definitely look into the upcoming Timemore Sculptor 064S since I'm only interested in an espresso grinder.
The amount of new budget grinders coming out these days is sooo good. Might have to swap my Eureka Mignon at some point, it's so hard to dial with it. Thanks again Lance 🙏 love those two tones corduroy shirts you've been sporting >:)
Can you please make a video that talks about the challenge of upgrading from hand grinders to electric ones. I currently own a jx pro but i cant make more than 1 espresso drink at a time because its exhausting 😢 and im scared that if i upgrade to an electric one, i might lose some quality in my coffee
Lance, Im on my second VS3 because of the plastic gearbox, but I wanted to mention that I'm getting zero retention with RDT. Not sure if you tested without or with RDT (I'm sure both), but I have yet to lose more than the usual 0.1 grams of coffee. Great review!
I'm hoping to get the 078s based on Lance's prediction! Also, I'm wondering if we'd be able to mod the variable speed to lower rpms...with the high wattage, I would assume it could handle the lower speed and grind with more uniformity similar to the 078 (albeit having different burr)
It's crazy how much prices differ around the world. That Lagom mini is 550 CAD here in Canada, whereas the DF64 is 665. To me it's a no brainer. I think if I were to get a conical grinder I'd tend to get a 250 CAD 1zpresso hand grinder rather than a Lagom Mini. Thanks for this Mr. Hedrick, lovely content as always. We are lucky to have you.
I've had my Vario for 13 years now (So old it's the Mahlkonig badged version!). I use it everyday for espresso and the only thing I've had to do is change the burrs out. I also have a refurbed Virtuoso for the past 4 years on filter duty. No problems there either. I know I can get grinders that will produce slightly better cups but it's hard to ignore that reliability!
Completely agree! The mini is just too expensive for it's value in Canada. The baratza is just messy. Ended up with the opus for the new referral discount, lower rpm, cleaner workflow and totally don't mind the inner ring for dialing in. And it's a second grinder for me so I already get a different cup with my first grinder. 😏
Baratza's have issues with retention as well. People complain that they're messy grinders. Who cares about their stellar customer service when you have to deal with grinds on your counter?
In my experience, Baratza customer service is poor. I needed a $2.50 plastic part for my Encore ESP and their website shows it is out of stock. After waiting for 30 minutes for customer service to answer, the response was "we don't know when the part will be in stock, keep checking the website." No other help was offered. My grinder sits useless. I will buy my next grinder from anyone but Baratza/Breville.
Just gonna drop this question here. I am currently rocking a DF64 (stock burs). I do both v60 and espresso. Would a good hand grinder be an upgrade for v60 brewing? Or is it hard to beat a flatburr with a hand grinder?
No you can make great coffee with a hand grinder with more consistent grinds. I find my 1zpresso zp6 produces less fines than my DF64 with SSP MP burrs.
Love the new editing, 13 min stacked with info. mini is an AMAZING grinder as an all-around, Personally I don't experience retention with RDT and grind speed is around 25s for 18g espresso light-roast. Never had stalling. Option-o has great customer-service and you can buy directly from them.
Lance Hedrick how do they do compared to Commandate C40 - taste wise would it be an upgrade to buy Lagom Mini? Or would it just be better to buy Eureka Atom 75
I purchased the Lagom mini in the US directly from Option-O when the moonshine burrs were released, total cost with shipping was approximately $450. I also have the upgraded brick and have also stalled it once on a light roast Ethiopian - but in general haven’t had any serious issues, and really love the small form factor. Overall I’ve been really happy with it - but If I were in the market today I would easily choose the Encore ESP… I don’t think that the mini is worth more than double the cost.
P.S. - I know what the VS3G2 burr options are and what Varia claims about each burr, but I don't know how each burr actually performs IRL. I have not been able to find any signifigant testing, reviews, and real life info about the new Hypersonic Ultra burr.
I would like to see how these compare to something like a kingrinder k6. Both being similar sized cone burrs and given the pricepoints, i would think they may well be comparable.
My Baratza Encore died 6 months in...I'm overseas so repairing is a lil bit tricky. Went for the Fellow Opus, ngl aesthetic got me a little bit and I didn't want to buy another Baratza to then die on me again in such a short time.
I bought a Encore Esp during BF, have had problem with retention about a couple of weeks later and tried bellows with no luck. Customer service still working on my case…
I received my Baratza Encore ESP on 2/25, and my poor Niche has been neglected since then. I’ve ground for filter coffee for my husband, (he prefers it to be ground at the upper end of espresso), espresso for me and also a medium grind for my Instant cold brewer. I really do like my Niche Zero, but if this grinder had been out in November when I bought my Niche, I might not have bought the Niche at all. I also got the single dose hopper which I’m really liking. I just received a bellows for the original hopper that I got from Etsy. I’m hoping that will also keep the lid from trying to jump off the hopper . I really like that cup that came with the ESP. It fits perfectly into my portafilter funnel.
About a year ago you did a budget grinder showdown that had the Urbanic 070s. Would one of these grinders be a better option than the Urbanic for espresso(I would do the dimmer mod to grind much slower)? I don't really care much about pour-over/french press, as I'm upgrading from a ~$100 conical burr grinder that will do my french press.
I ordered the varia 2 weeks ago, having seen Coffee parts positive review. I like the design and I’m only going to be using it for aeropress for now: I’d been using a 1zpresso Q2 but wanted something that can do espresso one day. Hope it lasts. Thanks for your all your budget reviews in recent weeks.
absolutely! I like to change things up. My youtube started with budget items and that is what I intend to keep the focus on at its roots. Appreciate the support!
that varia sure does look nice though. unfortunate that all the pieces of faff are floating around and stick to the body. you'd have to clean every time. this baratza looks good with the single dose cup. i wonder if it's the same baratza hoffman reviewed that was the loudest thing on the table? like, really loud.
Finally making the investment to get into making espresso at home after years of hand grinding an aeropress brew in the morning. I’m on the waitlist for the next batch of the VS3 release at the end of next month. Hoping that the motor issues are sorted, but it sounds like barring that it should pair well with a Gaggia Classic. Nice shootout video, they all seem like they’ll do the job well.
Hi love the video great over view for all the grinders might look into getting the Encore ESP currently using the OXO burr grinder which works okay but would like something better for my home espresso also looking into possibly a hand grinder instead. But i was wondering where to get the bellows you use in this video, tired looking and am unable to find and the Oxo doesn't have any after market ones available I could find. Thanks and again like a lot of your videos have a bunch lined up to watch.
Dude.. Great videos bro hands down... I just bought my gaggia classic espresso machine after owning a chefman espresso machine from Walmart haha.. Could you Please 🙏 make a video for beginners on how to make great espresso shots with a stock gaggia espresso machine.. the way you explain things makes much more sense then other videos.. haha Please bro.
To sum up. Kids, if coffee is your thing and you don't want a headache every time you make it, save some money and by EXPENSIVE equipment! Budget option is not an option. You're welcome! 😁
Appreciate this review Lance, as I've been looking for something to replace my Oster / Mr Coffee grinder for moka pot, and V60 coffee. And the Baratza Encore ESP is available for sale in a nearby city for me.
Thanks @LanceHedrick. This is exactly the review I have been looking for. For an all-purpose, is the DF64 worth the extra money as a longer-term investment?
my exprience with varia support was i had issue with the cup. i emailed them at Singapore Time 9am and i got a reply at 915am. without question asked, they say they will cover fully and do a full swap but i just had to contact with the distributor. the distributor in Singapore is quite a famous specialty cafe which i frequent quite a lot so it took a while for their response but the entire experience have been seamless. been using the grinder for 4 months and no issue so far so finger crossed
This is exactly the type of video I've been looking for. I am looking to start my journey in home coffee and I enjoy making myself both pour overs and espresso drinks at the coffee shop I work at, so I have been looking for a good budget grinder that can deliver on both espresso and filter. I will most likely act on your recommendation and invest in the baratza, cheers!
Excellent production and presentation. You sorta give me buyer's remorse on the Opus, but then I listen again and realize that a) I'm not making espresso at home, and b) I am on a budget, so I probably got the right thing.
I have the Baratza 270 and you just can't beat their costumer service. Had an issue with the gears slipping, and contacted them about it. No questions asked sent me a whole new gear set and a video of how to replace it, and even told me that if for some reason that doesn't fix it, to tell them and they would just send me a new 270 and have me send the old one to them.
Do you think the Ode Gen 2 is a better solution than most of/all of these for filter coffee? I really appreciate your effort and the production value Lance! Keep it up.
@uwotm8 it looks like the timemore 64 might be the version of the Ode that can do espresso. Fellow could probably keep everything the same with the Ode but have a stronger motor and sell it for a bit more as an espresso version, but I think they want the Opus to eventually be the espresso specialist.
Lance blink twice if you need help!! A 13:33 comparison of 5 grinders isn’t like you haha. Great video as always. Super glad to see all these budget options these days. Crazy to think how far we’ve come these passed few years.
In Europe there is the LELIT Fred PL044MMT who seems to be a good competitor in that category (38mm conical burr, stepless, 239e, good metal construction)
Great video Lance! This kind of information is hugely helpful for a somewhat beginner home barista like myself. Where would you say these compare to some of the better hand grinders out there? For myself, I currently use the 1Zpresso K Ultra for my daily routine. I’ve been thinking about getting an electric grinder since hand grinding can be a chore sometimes. Are any of these on equal or better footing?
Also would be interested. I am saving for an espresso machine and grinder and after my machine I anticipate I’ll have 200-300 max for a grinder. I am used to hand grinders but I want to know how much better they are for the price. Shelf space is also a consideration so lagom mini looks attractive for a little more
Surprised to hear you complain about the retention with the Lagom Mini and Varia VS3 I thought they were supposed to be pretty good, I haven't used either of them myself. How much is a lot for you though? Like 0.3 or 0.4g I think is fine. Also I think a bellows gets out stuff that wouldn't normally be exchanged. I remember when testing with my Specialita, it could blow out 1.5-2g coffee so it technically had about 2g retention, but I found only about 0.8g was actually exchanged if you don't use the bellows. You also get more consistent in and out weights I found without a bellows (cleaner too). So I prefer not having to use a bellows. I tested using my (patent pending?) method alternating between using grindz coffee cleaner (which is white) and coffee beans so you can SEE and weigh, how much you put through before it starts coming out. With the Baratza Vario retention was only 0.2g! The original single dose, low retention grinder!
Got the lagom mini (moonshine burrs) for ~CAD$500 based on versatility, portability and my preference towards modern espresso. Sadly, 4 months in to ownership I've already had the motor replaced by the great folks at Cafune (Montreal). Love the grinder but I really have my doubts as to what will happen to it once the warranty expires. It's a shame as the lagom mini is super sleek and at USD~$400 a really nice cheaper entrypoint in to the sleek "apple-like" Option-O UX. I definitely prefer the overall workflow and feeling over my packed away Encore.
Just curious if you purchased the mini before they upgraded the motor and power supply? I have not had any problems, but who knows what awaits. (I also bought mine from Cafune. These folks are terrific.)
For what it’s worth, my Lagom Mini has basically no retention. I just smacked it with the same bellows Lance recommended and had almost nothing come out. I also haven’t had stalling issues but I do think mine is a later model that what he’s using
I also get next to nothing. Total retention is 0.2g. Dose consistency is always perfect. I expect exchange is really low. The caveat is that it takes a while to clear the grounds after it's done grinding at espresso settings. And sometimes the grounds can be a little stuck but this can be helped along with a bellow or tapping the grinder with my palm.
I’m so glad I bought the Lagom directly from option-o (and paid 375 +shipping). They took forever to srrive and after all those releases I was unsure if it would be still a good choice, but it is keeping up. I now want the moonshine burrs (they launched it after I bought mine with obsidian) but don’t know if they are worth the price. I feel I have a very nice spectrum of flavors and possibilities with my Lagom mini paired with my df-64 (with ssp multipurpose burrs).
Thought I'd give a shorter overview of these 5 side by side. Have had loads of requests, so figured I'd make something easy to digest. Lot more cuts than usual, but it is in the hopes of giving you the down and dirty deets that may help your decision making process. Give a like and sub if you haven't and appreciate the work! Much love
Please do the same for flat burr / filter grinders 😀
Thanks a bunch! I was just looking at making a leap forward to my next grinder and was having a hard time narrowing it down.
Thanks for giving honest critique to each of the contenders! Very useful.
Do you have any thoughts on Eureka Mignon Zero? (not to be confused with Mignon Single Dose, the angled one, which is a bit larger and more expensive)
It's about the same price as Lagom Mini and Varia VS3 (and looks quite nice, too), but it does not appear to have received as much attention among coffee youtubers.
@@victorp.3444 weird how the price thing works across the world. Here in Canada, the Varia is $400CAD and the Eureka Zero is $750CAD. I was messaging Josh at Alternative brewing in Australia, and there it’s the Varia that’s the stupid expensive one. And Varia is a New Zealand company which has free trade with Australia…. He’s done reviews on all these grinders and was talking about a shootout video of his own, but not including the Varia because it’s in a whole different price bracket there.
Of all the grinders to do an abbreviated review: the one I wanted to know the most about!! 🙄 Keep up the excellent work. Ignore the singing-haters. Hater gonna hate.
Hard to beat Baratza support. I have a Vario and my parents have an Encore, both which went through Baratza's repair program after about 5-10 years of use and both came back working even better than when they were originally purchased.
My first Vs3 was dead out of the box. The adjustment mechanism was almost unmoveable and did not seem to adjust the grind size. When tightening it would get to a certain point (no where near zero) and sort of skip and loose all tension for a bit and then grip hard again, as well as a lot of movement and a screechy grind when the burrs were spinning. Took around a month to get a replacement as the distributor took a long time combined with crap post times. The replacement has been great since it arrived, and I am really enjoying it. I wanted the Ode Gen 2 originaly, but as of when I placed the order (December 26th) there was still not date for the Ode becoming available locally, they only turned up in late Feb, which still gave time for my Vs3 to arrive, be sent back and the replacement to arrive.
I have to say this is the one best video I need at this moment. I am choosing an electrical grinder for my gf and we needs it to be simple, aesthetic, great result and, relatively, good budget. This up-to-date video give the information I need. Thanks Lance
Love this format and style. This is perfect for someone that likes your content but sometimes doesn’t have time for the longer vids
yeah! I figured it would be a nice, cohesive overview.
@@LanceHedrick i think your shorter ones tend to have better pacing and less.... space? literally just watched a 50m one of yours, didn't realize that long, and i ended up with it on in the background because i couldn't just actively WATCH. (again, pacing.) you did an amazing job here, short and to the point, short and sweet. the ones under 15m i think are really great. or if they are longer, that you are still high paced AS IF it were short.
never seen the varia before so thank you for putting on here! :)
Great video, based on your 078 thoughts, it looks like the sculptor 064s should blow these out of the water at the $299 kickstarter price. Really excited to see your thoughts on it whenever we all get one
it should, assuming they built the 064 with the same quality and taste profiles in mind! I'm giddy with excitement.
Did Timemore confirm in that social media post that they would sell the burr sets separately? Their wording was pretty confusing
sure but kickstarter price is not the real price, at 450$ its real target is the DF64 (which btw is currently on sale at 345$)
The trend towards monolithic designs with primitive shapes is pretty interesting.
I hadn't thought about it in those terms. Interesting observation
As someone who already has a very good filter grinder (Ode Gen 2), I’d love to see a comparison of espresso-only grinders, for those of us that want to get into espresso after being experienced with filter.
Maybe it’s too small an audience, but I think it’d be interesting to look at grinders that focus purely on espresso, without consideration for filter. A reverse Ode, if you will.
Wouldn’t that be the niche?
This was me exactly and I got the Varia. It was available locally from good local dealers, no wait. Aesthetically it matches the ode perfectly. I've zero stalls in 3 months grinding light roasts for espresso. It is slow but that's not been an issue for me. Can't comment on shot quality versus these others, but I love the shots it makes.
DF64P if you don’t mind taking it apart and adjusting it
Lance be concise AF
a sentence I NEVER thought i'd read lol
I gotta ask! Just because it's hard kind of finding this exact scenario anywhere but if I have the Sette 30 upgraded with the 270 burrs for $210 and a Vs3 for $200 what would you specifically keep in your home? (I would like more focus on the espresso but also decent filter coffee)
I bought the Encore ESP. but I'm returning it. The espresso grinding is quite messy. The coffee powder just goes everywhere. I've ordered the VS3 instead. I like the build quality
oh wow! interesting! Did you use RDT? (ross droplet technique?) this should make it super clean. FYI you'll need to use the same (RDT) for the varia or it will be really messy from static.
Aaagh, this was the comment I was looking for.
Cuz' I ordered the Varia VS3 but I am still leaning towards the more established companies like Baratza or Fellow.
Do want the "HIGH END ALL-AROUND GRINDER" video 🤤
I love your videos, it always brings a laugh on my face when you do you.
Do you have the Eureka atom touch 65 on your radar for a test? I see it popping up on the internet, but there are no reviews of it.
I do not but can check!
Wondering if you have a list of grinders you’d recommend for those looking to enter the midrange, like the $300-500 range, after using an entry level Encore for about 5 years? Pretty easy question, I know 😂. Just for pour overs.
just for pourovers? Look at the timemore sculptor 078 when it releases! (078s is different)
Or Fellow Ode Gen 2 does well!
Commenting for the algorithm, and to say I'm in the exact same spot. I'm ready to move up from my Encore, willing to spend more but not too much more, and 100% pour overs.
ode gen 2 is a good place to go!
@@LanceHedrick It's high on my list ... but I'm in no rush, I want to see the competition before I decide.
Apparently upgrading the burrs of the varia makes a big difference to flavour
Lovvveee the longer vids! But thank you Lance! Introducing my parents to the world of espresso slowly but surely with your help! 🤍
Waiting for final pricing of the Timemore goodies in the UK but the Encore esp is damn tempting.
That shirt is amazing by the way!
i'm really anticipating those timemore grinders!
Hey Lance! You stated that the same light Ethiopian tasted more floral with the Lagom and more fruity with the Varia. 6:50 Do you have any insight on what causes this? I have an Ethiopian coffee at home that I have thought of as fruity with floral hints, but the last time I brewed it, it was almost like jasmine tea it was so floral. I like both but am interested in how to control it or favor one way or the other depending on the day. Thanks for all the great content!!!
It looks like varia is now selling its grinder with a stainless steel gearbox. Curious if that has solved the issue?
You should get a lazy Susan for blind cuppings, so to mix up the positions of the coffees and increase rng.
I'm sure the other individual (I don't know your name, I'm so sorry!) Means well, but they might introduce a pattern, may introduce your bias.
just fyi- the tasting on camera is not singular. I do dozens upon dozens of double blinds in my studio leading up to videos. What I do on camera is a reflection of what is done off camera. Though, to be fair, what I shoot is always genuine. If it is completely different from my off screen testing, I usually say something.
But if you knew one on the lazy susan, wouldn't you then be able to know them all by their position? Unless you also had someone mix them up too. Just don't see it helping the rng really.
where did you get the clear ugly bellows from ☺ and why don't you sell it on your amazon store front? I don't care for looks at times when practicality serves better.😊
Hello Lance, the best grinder here for pour over is ?
How does the Smart Grinder Pro compare to these as an allrounder? I am really attracted to the minimal design of these newer grinders and thinking about an upgrade after 5 years...
smart grinder pro isn't ideal for lighter roasted coffees. Fares well with darker, but leaves a lot to be desired as you go lighter tbh
HOW LANCE HOW?!?!?!
😅😅😅
For a slightly better pour over with these grinders go get a cheap fines sifter.
true! Especially with the sd40. I suspect it creates the most.
For $300 + I don't see any reason not to just spend a bit more for a DF64.
It offers better value than any of these imo.
It's good out the box, well built, good for any brew method and can be easily upgrade with cheap mods or any number of after market burr should you want them.
sure! I don't disagree! But many would. and want something ready out of the box that is easy to dial in. Flats are harder with a more narrow window. Cones are more forgiving.
What about the DF64 vs the 1zpresso J-Max just for espresso (purely from the flavour / taste profile perspective)? The J-Max vs any of these?
You made a video about budget grinders where you recommended the akirakoki m520a but then I have yet to see you compare that class of grinder to anything outside of those videos. Why is it that you don't make that comparison especially given the nice things you had to say about those grinders
Simply put- I don't have them anymore. I gave them away to patreon supporters.
@@LanceHedrick Very fair, thanks!
Femobook?
Your slurping has a lower frequency than what I find irritating. Maybe that’s the mic or the audio processing. If I was an acoustic technician, I’d make a video analyzing and comparing the slurps of the most popular coffee RUclipsrs.
Yeah I think you are acoustic too
You mentioned customer service, so I wanted to mention my experience with my Lagom Mini:
I busted a little part within the motor chamber while it was out of warranty. I reached out to Option-O in hopes that I could purchase the part.
Instead of that, they offered to send over a whole new motor and power brick, as long as I paid the shipping. And then I got detailed instructions to make the replacement myself.
Whenever I upgrade, they’ll have my business.
That’s good to hear! I’m loving my Lagom mini
Agree, option o customer service is excellent. Power brick died and they were very easy to deal with!
I dropped and dented my funnel. I also wanted to purchase it from them and they send me a new one just for the cost of the shipping.
Good to hear. Thank you for leaving a positive comment on a company.
that's fantastic to hear. i think customer service ends up being almost a bigger factor in purchasing a product than just price and features. it's the worst feeling when a company acts like they stand by their product, or give 100% customer satisfaction claims, only to leave you high and dry when something is messed up. i'll definitely look into Lagom now. Option-O sounds great!
This is great. Now we need a "Best Espresso-oriented Grinder for Beginners". Or maybe not beginners, but people who don't want to spend 500+ USD on a grinder, and rarely if ever make anything but espresso.
I hope the mignon manuale is on that list
Introductory pricing on the Timemore 64s is supposed to be $300- and for that you get modern 64mm flat burrs, brushless dc motor, an auger, variable rpm, and a novel chaff/fines catcher on the output that Lance really likes. Plus it's compact. Probably your best option imo
Based on everything you stated, if I were in the market for a grinder in this price point I too would choose the Baratza ESP. However, I would definitely look into the upcoming Timemore Sculptor 064S since I'm only interested in an espresso grinder.
I also feel the same
Will probably get the Timemore
My Varia VS3 motor just failed after 11months of use. Great when it worked and looked good but now I have to shop for a new grinder. So here I am.
The amount of new budget grinders coming out these days is sooo good. Might have to swap my Eureka Mignon at some point, it's so hard to dial with it. Thanks again Lance 🙏 love those two tones corduroy shirts you've been sporting >:)
thanks for the kind words! and yes. what a time to be alive!
Thanks for the informative video, great content as always! Would you say that the Varia vs3 is improved with the second generation?
Varia gen 2 owner here, with rdt there is zero retention even after a fill tear down and weighing grounds within the system less than 0.1 grams
Can you please make a video that talks about the challenge of upgrading from hand grinders to electric ones. I currently own a jx pro but i cant make more than 1 espresso drink at a time because its exhausting 😢 and im scared that if i upgrade to an electric one, i might lose some quality in my coffee
Lance, Im on my second VS3 because of the plastic gearbox, but I wanted to mention that I'm getting zero retention with RDT. Not sure if you tested without or with RDT (I'm sure both), but I have yet to lose more than the usual 0.1 grams of coffee. Great review!
I RDT as well to keep the mess down. 20.0g in, always 19.9 to 20.0 out.
Yup gen 2 here and zero retention
A bit of a different price segment, but interested to see how the timemore sculptor 064s and 078s perform as all-arounders.
I am waiting to get mine! Hope they arrive this month!
@@LanceHedrick Awesome! I look forward to your reviews!
so am I! haha I made some bold predictions about them so I'm hoping I am not wrong!
I'm hoping to get the 078s based on Lance's prediction! Also, I'm wondering if we'd be able to mod the variable speed to lower rpms...with the high wattage, I would assume it could handle the lower speed and grind with more uniformity similar to the 078 (albeit having different burr)
It's crazy how much prices differ around the world. That Lagom mini is 550 CAD here in Canada, whereas the DF64 is 665. To me it's a no brainer. I think if I were to get a conical grinder I'd tend to get a 250 CAD 1zpresso hand grinder rather than a Lagom Mini.
Thanks for this Mr. Hedrick, lovely content as always. We are lucky to have you.
the 1zpresso is great. honestly the grind goes super fast, too.
I've had my Vario for 13 years now (So old it's the Mahlkonig badged version!). I use it everyday for espresso and the only thing I've had to do is change the burrs out. I also have a refurbed Virtuoso for the past 4 years on filter duty. No problems there either. I know I can get grinders that will produce slightly better cups but it's hard to ignore that reliability!
Completely agree! The mini is just too expensive for it's value in Canada. The baratza is just messy. Ended up with the opus for the new referral discount, lower rpm, cleaner workflow and totally don't mind the inner ring for dialing in. And it's a second grinder for me so I already get a different cup with my first grinder. 😏
oh perfect! Sounds like a perfect match. Opus really does do a nice job. Shockingly good filter.
I dont see anything here to tempt me away from my mahlkonig/baratza vario. Nice.
Hey Lance, just curious : what's your full-time job? Anything related to coffee or not at all?
I have been working for Onyx Coffee Lab 5 years now. I am head of international and west coast wholesale. I also do cafe development and strategy.
I’ve had the Encore ESP for about a week and it is NOICE! To be fair I’m upgrading from a broken Cusinart $50 grinder.
Baratza's have issues with retention as well. People complain that they're messy grinders. Who cares about their stellar customer service when you have to deal with grinds on your counter?
Yep. They should find a way to make a compact Sette, and they'll rock.
In my experience, Baratza customer service is poor. I needed a $2.50 plastic part for my Encore ESP and their website shows it is out of stock. After waiting for 30 minutes for customer service to answer, the response was "we don't know when the part will be in stock, keep checking the website." No other help was offered. My grinder sits useless. I will buy my next grinder from anyone but Baratza/Breville.
Would love to know how the df54 would do here
Just gonna drop this question here. I am currently rocking a DF64 (stock burs). I do both v60 and espresso. Would a good hand grinder be an upgrade for v60 brewing? Or is it hard to beat a flatburr with a hand grinder?
No you can make great coffee with a hand grinder with more consistent grinds. I find my 1zpresso zp6 produces less fines than my DF64 with SSP MP burrs.
Love the new editing, 13 min stacked with info.
mini is an AMAZING grinder as an all-around, Personally I don't experience retention with RDT and grind speed is around 25s for 18g espresso light-roast. Never had stalling.
Option-o has great customer-service and you can buy directly from them.
Lance Hedrick how do they do compared to Commandate C40 - taste wise would it be an upgrade to buy Lagom Mini? Or would it just be better to buy Eureka Atom 75
I purchased the Lagom mini in the US directly from Option-O when the moonshine burrs were released, total cost with shipping was approximately $450. I also have the upgraded brick and have also stalled it once on a light roast Ethiopian - but in general haven’t had any serious issues, and really love the small form factor. Overall I’ve been really happy with it - but If I were in the market today I would easily choose the Encore ESP… I don’t think that the mini is worth more than double the cost.
for sure. I agree. But damn- the mini looks good!
15 mins is all it takes to capture my recommended. You are deserving of the aid of the Algo
YES!!!!! I hope I have one ride it! I've only had slow burning videos. Would be sick to have the algo boost ya boy
P.S. - I know what the VS3G2 burr options are and what Varia claims about each burr, but I don't know how each burr actually performs IRL. I have not been able to find any signifigant testing, reviews, and real life info about the new Hypersonic Ultra burr.
I would like to see how these compare to something like a kingrinder k6. Both being similar sized cone burrs and given the pricepoints, i would think they may well be comparable.
My Baratza Encore died 6 months in...I'm overseas so repairing is a lil bit tricky. Went for the Fellow Opus, ngl aesthetic got me a little bit and I didn't want to buy another Baratza to then die on me again in such a short time.
I bought a Encore Esp during BF, have had problem with retention about a couple of weeks later and tried bellows with no luck. Customer service still working on my case…
I received my Baratza Encore ESP on 2/25, and my poor Niche has been neglected since then. I’ve ground for filter coffee for my husband, (he prefers it to be ground at the upper end of espresso), espresso for me and also a medium grind for my Instant cold brewer. I really do like my Niche Zero, but if this grinder had been out in November when I bought my Niche, I might not have bought the Niche at all.
I also got the single dose hopper which I’m really liking. I just received a bellows for the original hopper that I got from Etsy. I’m hoping that will also keep the lid from trying to jump off the hopper .
I really like that cup that came with the ESP. It fits perfectly into my portafilter funnel.
Let me get that niche! My arms are so tender manually grinding my beans lol
I am offended no one has complimented your singing yet. That was lovely.
ha! Thank you so much!
About a year ago you did a budget grinder showdown that had the Urbanic 070s. Would one of these grinders be a better option than the Urbanic for espresso(I would do the dimmer mod to grind much slower)? I don't really care much about pour-over/french press, as I'm upgrading from a ~$100 conical burr grinder that will do my french press.
I ordered the varia 2 weeks ago, having seen Coffee parts positive review. I like the design and I’m only going to be using it for aeropress for now: I’d been using a 1zpresso Q2 but wanted something that can do espresso one day. Hope it lasts.
Thanks for your all your budget reviews in recent weeks.
absolutely! I like to change things up. My youtube started with budget items and that is what I intend to keep the focus on at its roots. Appreciate the support!
that varia sure does look nice though.
unfortunate that all the pieces of faff are floating around and stick to the body. you'd have to clean every time. this baratza looks good with the single dose cup. i wonder if it's the same baratza hoffman reviewed that was the loudest thing on the table? like, really loud.
yeah i need something under 100.00 because i dont have Starbucks money X_X
Finally making the investment to get into making espresso at home after years of hand grinding an aeropress brew in the morning. I’m on the waitlist for the next batch of the VS3 release at the end of next month. Hoping that the motor issues are sorted, but it sounds like barring that it should pair well with a Gaggia Classic. Nice shootout video, they all seem like they’ll do the job well.
Hi love the video great over view for all the grinders might look into getting the Encore ESP currently using the OXO burr grinder which works okay but would like something better for my home espresso also looking into possibly a hand grinder instead.
But i was wondering where to get the bellows you use in this video, tired looking and am unable to find and the Oxo doesn't have any after market ones available I could find. Thanks and again like a lot of your videos have a bunch lined up to watch.
Please review the Rancilio Stile grinder, pretty please!!
I'd like to see an updated review of the Varia VS3 Gen 2 including all of its burr options.
Even after all these years, Baratza is still hitting it out of the park. The new Encore ESP is such a great option!
I appreciate that you're not swayed by flashy new designs/brands and really compare the grinder performance directly.
Just rebuilt my 13 year old Virtuoso. Everything but the burrs, which will be in the future sometime. I’m well pleased with its performance
Bruh, but now that Timemore Sculptor 064s kickstarter for 299 is up soon...
I know! That's why I had to get this out asap. Once I have those others, i'll review as fast as I can (while still doing my usual due diligence)
Dude.. Great videos bro hands down... I just bought my gaggia classic espresso machine after owning a chefman espresso machine from Walmart haha.. Could you Please 🙏 make a video for beginners on how to make great espresso shots with a stock gaggia espresso machine.. the way you explain things makes much more sense then other videos.. haha Please bro.
I have! Check it out. From 2021
To sum up. Kids, if coffee is your thing and you don't want a headache every time you make it, save some money and by EXPENSIVE equipment! Budget option is not an option. You're welcome! 😁
hahaha! Fair point
Sssh, you are not supposed to yell out the quiet parts.
hahahaha
Appreciate this review Lance, as I've been looking for something to replace my Oster / Mr Coffee grinder for moka pot, and V60 coffee. And the Baratza Encore ESP is available for sale in a nearby city for me.
Thanks @LanceHedrick. This is exactly the review I have been looking for. For an all-purpose, is the DF64 worth the extra money as a longer-term investment?
my exprience with varia support was i had issue with the cup. i emailed them at Singapore Time 9am and i got a reply at 915am. without question asked, they say they will cover fully and do a full swap but i just had to contact with the distributor. the distributor in Singapore is quite a famous specialty cafe which i frequent quite a lot so it took a while for their response but the entire experience have been seamless. been using the grinder for 4 months and no issue so far so finger crossed
Whenever Lance mentions he has a full time job, I assume it's as an entertainer/singer. He probably makes bank doing it.
He does have a great signing voice
That was definitely the most condensed Lance video to date! Great comparison!
Would you recommend the updated version of the Varia?
This is exactly the type of video I've been looking for. I am looking to start my journey in home coffee and I enjoy making myself both pour overs and espresso drinks at the coffee shop I work at, so I have been looking for a good budget grinder that can deliver on both espresso and filter. I will most likely act on your recommendation and invest in the baratza, cheers!
Looking forward to the review of the Fiorenzato Pietro grinder on your shelf :) Very different design from what else is out there!
Excellent production and presentation. You sorta give me buyer's remorse on the Opus, but then I listen again and realize that a) I'm not making espresso at home, and b) I am on a budget, so I probably got the right thing.
Is it me or is the Varia's burr wobbling/not centered in the slowmo shots?
I have the Baratza 270 and you just can't beat their costumer service. Had an issue with the gears slipping, and contacted them about it. No questions asked sent me a whole new gear set and a video of how to replace it, and even told me that if for some reason that doesn't fix it, to tell them and they would just send me a new 270 and have me send the old one to them.
Wow this video saved me so much time. Been back and forth on varia and encore esp.
Definitely going with the esp now.
Do you think the Ode Gen 2 is a better solution than most of/all of these for filter coffee? I really appreciate your effort and the production value Lance! Keep it up.
If you aren't doing espresso Ode Gen 2 is a masterpiece imo
@uwotm8 it looks like the timemore 64 might be the version of the Ode that can do espresso. Fellow could probably keep everything the same with the Ode but have a stronger motor and sell it for a bit more as an espresso version, but I think they want the Opus to eventually be the espresso specialist.
Lance blink twice if you need help!! A 13:33 comparison of 5 grinders isn’t like you haha.
Great video as always. Super glad to see all these budget options these days. Crazy to think how far we’ve come these passed few years.
haha! Just trying to give a quick overview for people that might not have patience for a standard lance video lolol
@@LanceHedrick much appreciated!
Did they ever launch that ESP with that sleeker top?
Perfect format for this content! Would the Baratza be a better espresso grinder than the built in grinder on the Breville Barista Express?
In Europe there is the LELIT Fred PL044MMT who seems to be a good competitor in that category (38mm conical burr, stepless, 239e, good metal construction)
oh! Need to check it out!
@@LanceHedrick If you could get your hands on it and do a review that would be very interesting!
Wow! Indeed, the little Lelit Fred got a bit upgraded body.
Wait but the Encore ESP is 550 RPM as well?
What about some thing like the Eureka Filtro Silent?
Missing Wilfa uniform, whats your opinion?
Great video Lance! This kind of information is hugely helpful for a somewhat beginner home barista like myself. Where would you say these compare to some of the better hand grinders out there? For myself, I currently use the 1Zpresso K Ultra for my daily routine. I’ve been thinking about getting an electric grinder since hand grinding can be a chore sometimes. Are any of these on equal or better footing?
I can't believe you gave such a straight up opinion cuz I'm sure some brands might not like that. But still: I think that's "FANTASTIC"!
I
Not here to please brands- I'm here to help inform buyers! Cheers
Thanks for the video! How do you think the best hand grinders (around 300 usd) compare to these options?
Also would be interested. I am saving for an espresso machine and grinder and after my machine I anticipate I’ll have 200-300 max for a grinder. I am used to hand grinders but I want to know how much better they are for the price. Shelf space is also a consideration so lagom mini looks attractive for a little more
I love the format of this review. Very concise, full of information. Super helpful!
Surprised to hear you complain about the retention with the Lagom Mini and Varia VS3 I thought they were supposed to be pretty good, I haven't used either of them myself. How much is a lot for you though? Like 0.3 or 0.4g I think is fine. Also I think a bellows gets out stuff that wouldn't normally be exchanged. I remember when testing with my Specialita, it could blow out 1.5-2g coffee so it technically had about 2g retention, but I found only about 0.8g was actually exchanged if you don't use the bellows. You also get more consistent in and out weights I found without a bellows (cleaner too). So I prefer not having to use a bellows.
I tested using my (patent pending?) method alternating between using grindz coffee cleaner (which is white) and coffee beans so you can SEE and weigh, how much you put through before it starts coming out.
With the Baratza Vario retention was only 0.2g! The original single dose, low retention grinder!
Got the lagom mini (moonshine burrs) for ~CAD$500 based on versatility, portability and my preference towards modern espresso. Sadly, 4 months in to ownership I've already had the motor replaced by the great folks at Cafune (Montreal). Love the grinder but I really have my doubts as to what will happen to it once the warranty expires.
It's a shame as the lagom mini is super sleek and at USD~$400 a really nice cheaper entrypoint in to the sleek "apple-like" Option-O UX. I definitely prefer the overall workflow and feeling over my packed away Encore.
Just curious if you purchased the mini before they upgraded the motor and power supply? I have not had any problems, but who knows what awaits.
(I also bought mine from Cafune. These folks are terrific.)
@@derekbingham4632 I purchased it in November and was told it’s the newer model… but who knows.
Agreed re: Cafune - no complaints with their level of service!
@@tricepratops Thanks for taking the time to reply. Cheers.
@@derekbingham4632 you're welcome!
Why is lower RPM desirable?
For what it’s worth, my Lagom Mini has basically no retention. I just smacked it with the same bellows Lance recommended and had almost nothing come out. I also haven’t had stalling issues but I do think mine is a later model that what he’s using
I also get next to nothing. Total retention is 0.2g. Dose consistency is always perfect. I expect exchange is really low.
The caveat is that it takes a while to clear the grounds after it's done grinding at espresso settings. And sometimes the grounds can be a little stuck but this can be helped along with a bellow or tapping the grinder with my palm.
I’m so glad I bought the Lagom directly from option-o (and paid 375 +shipping). They took forever to srrive and after all those releases I was unsure if it would be still a good choice, but it is keeping up. I now want the moonshine burrs (they launched it after I bought mine with obsidian) but don’t know if they are worth the price. I feel I have a very nice spectrum of flavors and possibilities with my Lagom mini paired with my df-64 (with ssp multipurpose burrs).
I wouldn't upgrade the burrs. I do not think the difference is worth it tbh
@@LanceHedrick thanks for the advice!
definitely! Brew some tasty coffees ;)
@@LanceHedrick thanks for that! I love the passion you have for this stuff! Always look forward to each video you post
thank you sincerely!