Enneagram 4 - The Individualists with Ian Morgan Cron
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- Опубликовано: 1 ноя 2020
- Our Enneagram series continues with another type who rounds out the heart triad: the beautifully complex Type Fours (also known as The Romantics). To lead us on all things Type Four, we have an incredible returning guest: a Four himself, Ian Morgan Cron. Ian wears many hats-Enneagram expert, author of The Road Back to You, host of Typology Podcast, priest and psychotherapist, to name a few-and his Fourness is revealed in his beautiful, open posture toward humanity. He walks us through how Fours believe that they have an “unredeemable deficiency,” how they feel a little different and off-center, and have a vague dissatisfaction with themselves. Typically seen as the most complex of all the Enneagram numbers, Fours seek to be special in some way to fill this inner void, and the road to being a healthy Four is when they realize that “specialness” isn’t their sole path to being loved. Ian shares personally his experience that the superpower of a Four is emotional intuitiveness and empathy; Fours are equipped to come alongside people in their dark moments and walk through the suffering with them, and they tend to gravitate towards spaces in which they can uniquely contribute to conversation. Conversely, Fours in conflict tend to withdraw, and Ian shares how they can be lovingly drawn out. And don’t forget to stick around until the end to hear from composer Ryan O’Neal (AKA Sleeping At Last), who shares his process for crafting a music piece as uniquely complex as Type Fours.
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➤ “The Road Back to You” by Ian Morgan Cron and Suzanne Stabile: amzn.to/2MGPxIy
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I took Ian's test, last week, and tested type 4.I was with a dear friend, and his girlfriend, when he took his last breadth October 20th, holding his hand and telling him what a good man he is (and he was). I was so proud of how he faced his death. I felt privileged, honored and grateful to be with him.
Starts 4:30 🥱
I’m a 4w5 and The “abyss” comment gave me goosebumps. I also had a really good laugh earlier today about the 4’s struggle being “unique” but not “special”. Such a bipolar day but I’m so here for it 🤣
My life actually started when I understood who I I am as a four.
I agree
I am not even 10 minutes in and I am about to cry. I am so damn proud of Ian representing us weird bunch here, and sound so wonderful and uniquely familiar! So healing! Love him to pieces! Bit thank for having him on.
Ok.. now, on with the rest of the episode 👀
I feel so seen without feeling like a dark cloud is over me! Everyone else describes 4s as a dark cloud! I love when he said you want a 4 around in dark times because we know how to just sit in it without feeling a need to fix it. That made me feel valuable.
Great podcast! I'm a 4w5 and feel very seen... never heard about the "abyss" before but it resonates!
i guess Im quite randomly asking but does anyone know a good site to watch newly released movies online?
@Madden Huxley Meh I watch on Flixportal. Just search on google after it=) -pedro
@Pedro Emmett thanks, I went there and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) Appreciate it !
I've struggled for years to figure out if I'm a 5w4 or 4w5. I feel like I relate to the motivations and behaviors of both almost equally. Either way I sure as hell am straddling that abyss. I've been on a non-stop rollercoaster ride of identity evolution for my whole adult life.
Holy crap! I am 10 minutes in and I’ve never heard myself so accurately described in my entire life! Thank you!!
Right!!!
So weird! I’m not a practicing Catholic anymore BUT, I was baptized as a baby in the church and decided at 18 to get confirmed. I would go to the classes and cover all the books
(W5) about astrology, out of body experience, past lives, etc.
on my passenger seat so no one could see them. And when asked by people why Catholic? I’d say “it’s the incense” 😂 For real tho, the vibe of the Catholic Church can’t be matched. The mystery, the incense, the windows, ritual, it all drew me in.
I liked the type 5 episode..but this one..... Man .. this was brilliant. :)
Thanks so much!
I'm thinking I'm a 4w5 (with an acutely strong wing!, I should say) and Ian M. Cron just nailed it, for me.
Charisma, Authenticity, BeHolding the World, and the longing for completion..
Struggle with rigidity and certitude ..and yes.. not needing to withdraw from conflict, if it is, a de facto, constructive discussion.
This was tremendously enlightening, and useful.
Thanks again!
Greetings from Portugal
Wonderful session. So grateful I found this recording. Thank you to you both.
Needed to be here, must have been an appointment for me, and the ending with Peace and grace to you..... literally JUST studying this. Thank you.
Thanks Ian, the talk was enlightening.
It’s crazy how he spoke about 4s giving some reason as to why you’re so special and different. I always say I do things because I’m a cancer! Imagine a 4 and a cancer. Lord help me
I'm a 4 and a Cancer and it can be alot!
Great interview
I was raised Episcopalian and my father's father was an Episcopalian priest. As a four, I totally get what Ian is saying regarding the theater of high church. I kind of feel like only fours can really talk about fours. At least that's been my experience.
I agree. We are the least common and I think the most misunderstood Or difficult to understand.
I hate how I handle conflict sometimes as a 4. It's like I'm either too passive or I bottle things up and explode. I've been in multiple brawls etc and conversely have walked away from people over the smallest conflict. I wish I were more assertive rather than one or the other. 5w4. I don't know how to like that side of myself maybe due to good ol parent upbringing. Even with the right supplement or therapy it always comes back to this
Amazing content! I wonder if Ian has always been "the withdrawing" type, considering that he said that his 3 wing was more dominant when he was young.
I suspect that there are a number of 4s out there who relate with "the aggressive" type; maybe equally, or even more than "the withdrawing" type.
I'm a 29 y.o. male, who tested as a 4 and feels that my 5 wing is dominant. But I definitely relate with my 3 wing in various situations, including moments of confrontation, or sometimes even need. I've even been accused (perhaps rightfully) of having "anger issues" and being needlessly abrasive.
It seems to me that "withdrawing" wouldn't always mesh well with one's incurable need for self-representation and expression.
I'm a 4 with strong 3 characteristics. I don't get swapped in melancholy, I always try to run away from it. But I do produce art about grieving, like books and poetry.
I don't agree that people are automatically unhealthy. He's depicting all 4s as /needing/ to feel unique and trying to feel complete. It's possible some may end up acquiring those tendencies. I've never been that way. But yes, I've struggled with feeling accepted for who I am and fitting in. Anyone who is self-aware and mindful is not going to integrate pseudo-fulfillment strategies into their life and self concept.
Hah...'they don't have feelings; they are their feelings'. That's an insightful comment. I'm a 4w5 and have a very logical side so I don't necessarily relate to being blown about by my emotions (unless I'm in an unhealthy state), but I most certainly have an intensely colorful emotional life that very much is core to who I am. I'm thinking we do identify so much with our emotions because anything that goes through us is imbued with a lot of meaning, is woven into the bigger picture. And by being very in-tune with ourselves it's not like we would have a lot of impulsive reactions of which we would later be like...okay...maybe I don't stand by that anymore. To 4s life is intense, all experiences are intense...it's a big --experience--. And then, secondly, we gotta find a way to manifest ourselves in the world.
That one's been a central conundrum in my own life. At first I thought it was due to my sensitivity/vulnerability and 'masking' as an autistic, then I started getting into enneagram and found it was a theme of 4s - being uncertain of their social persona, and coming to a fully integrated identity. This could be because our sense of life is so deep (there's just so much to integrate!), and mostly built upon our own personal experience rather than common social consensus, which can clash with a lot of other people we encounter (how in the world do I interact with people while still remaining true to myself??).
You could be a self preserving 4 like myself. There are three different instincts that go along with the types and wings: self preserving, social, and sexual. Self preservation fours keep their emotions inside in order to “endure,” the pain. Social fours try to let others know about their pain. And lastly, sexual fours are one uppers, trying to out-do others(many sexual fours have wing 3). But like you said, it’s also levels of healthiness that need to be considered as well as trying to steer clear of the stereotypes.
I kept waiting for him to talk about me, a type four, but kept getting met with off topic tangents about himself. Same with the interviewer… how very four I suppose
This is great i am a 4
In the Tritype Enneagram i'm a 486 - Truth Teller .
When it comes to conflict , it really depend on what type of Conflict and if i am in the mood to deal with the Conflict . I am not always going to walk away from a conflict since 8 is in my Tritype . If things go bad i jump on Enneagram 6 . - always have a back up plan .
I’m looking forward to hearing this ANd when you introduce him as a pioneer, makes me wonder why as he isn’t.
Not that he’s not qualified to teach but the “pioneers” who learned from the 2 men most agreed on introducing the Ennegram (ichazo and Naranjo) are most agreed to be Helen Palmer, Don Riso, Eli Jaxon-Bear, and others. You guest said he heard of it in the mid 90’s from Fr. Richard Rogers book. Which already puts him decades behind the aforementioned who were already teaching it and writing books.
So, Not sure why you’re giving him title of a pioneer when he isn’t. Perhaps you didn’t know.
(Btw, there are many others who learned from Naranjo and Ichazo who I didn’t mention who’s books are mind blowing. Truly.)
All that being said... since Christians seem to take credit for “new” things and often discredit those before them, (often making them lose depth and credibility sadly) I wanted to point this out because when if I was to share this with anyone who can find out in seconds your guest isn’t a pioneer, they could dismiss too their first hearing of a teaching that is truly powerful and for me, one of the most fascinating and life changing teachings I’ve ever learned.
Thanks for listening.
You sound like a 4 😅
Taking a little poll… As an Enneagram 4, What is your Moon sign in astrology?? Feel free to add your wing and subtype also! :) Thank you 🙏🏽
Sp/sx 4, 4w3 my moon sign is aries
4w5 , libra (I always think 4s must be libras)
I am this, and an INFJ.
me too
it's excruciating
😂🕯🔥
@@oceanecastelnau9821 "my existence is excruciating" - the quintessential Type 4
I will say- way too many adds for me to hang out. Good info though
Liked Ian's insights, but got a little frustrated with the interviewer...and all the adverts.. Sorry about that!