When I played Madden I mainly ran 3-4. When I coached football we ran the 335/353 (whatever you wanna call it) but honestly you can run a lot of defensive schemes as a form of another depending on personell (eg. You can run a 3-4 with 335 principles).
Nickel, ideally your slot CB is a guy like Malcolm Jenkins or Mathieu (able to play safety effectively). It's hilarious because teams refer to 3-4 or 4-3 as base and nickel (the shit they use the most) is typically referred to as the sub package.
We ran a hybrid defense so I got to experience both a 3-4 and a 4-3, and from a player's perspective, I would say the best is a 3-4. We ran a one-gap defense and it was much easier to use it in the 3-4 than the 4-3 because the 3-4 allowed people to get to their gaps faster. The 3-4 was also better because it was much easier to disguise blitzes because most of our rushers were already on the line of scrimmage. It did help that we had to interior linebackers that were fast and could play the run like nothing, but they struggled in when we ran 4-3 or 4-2-5. Team building wise I'm more 50/50 because while it is harder to find the right players to fit the scheme, I feel that when you do the run defense becomes impossible to take on.
If you use the 4-3 the way tom Laundry did it adding what I remember as the flex defense it was used great. Ultimately it depends on your players are they a 3 or 4 player . Is the guys true nose tackle or DT. Do you have a great nickel player that works better than a 4-3 or 3-4. I prefer 4-3 if all things equal I want to big massive DT to clog the middle.
4-3 less flexible but more focused on one job example 4-3DE just worry about getting to the qb for the most part. Edge rushers in 3-4 have to worry about dropping too.
I prefer 4-3 over 3-4 because I like have 2 big boy DTs clogging up the guards and center so the Ends can Tee off on the Tackles. Both have their weaknesses like 4-3 isnt the best on coverage because you got 1 less person on coverage, which can make a difference, but is good against the run while 3-4 sucks on run plays, ESPECIALLY on stretch plays, but is good on coverage since theres more people on coverage. Both defenses are amazing if well put together.
Good insight. If you want any evidence to what he’s saying, look how quickly the Steelers defense fell apart a while ago and just how long it took to get every piece in place to have a good D. Great video 👍
Maybe an idea for a future vid but Id love to hear your opinion on the left tackle vs right tackle value. Its long been considered that LT is significantly more important that RT because of the blind side. But with defenses lining up guys like Mack and Von Miller on the RT, is this logic now outdated?
With regards to the NFL, it doesn't matter since you're in sub packages so much anyways. I guess it could technically make a difference depending on if you want an odd front (like 4i-0-5, TITE/MINT fronts, or a 3-3-5) for your sub package, but for your standard 4-2-5/2-4-5 sub packages it doesn't make much of a difference. With regards to high school and college, I'd probably say 3-4 since your OLB's will be a lot more flexible and can go in coverage. You can also transition into 3-3-5/Odd front sub package stuff a lot easier and get more speed on the field compared to always having 4 DL. The run fits will translate better too moving from Base Odd front to Sub Odd front compared to Base Even to Sub Odd.
4:33 correction sir, they made the change bc they were running a very conservative 3-4 scheme thus hiring steve spagnola who is known for his aggressive 4-3 defense and comes from the coaching tree one of the most aggressive 4-3 defensive coaches of all time jim johnson
What happens if say throughout the college ranks 3-4 becomes more popular and we start seeing more players who fit those archetypes, would you then say a 3-4 is a better more efficient defense?
i’d rather run a 3-4 have a great defensive end that can pass rush and the 2 EDGEs that stop the run then have the 2 outside lin backs pass rush while the linebackers and safety’s can go into coverage
As someone who charts games for PFF, 3-4 teams in the NFL, when they do go "base". Usually don't have their DEs any wider than a 4i and the edge OLBs are in 5-7 techniques.
Ryan Taga a 5 tech is playing in between the guards and the tackles. Look at someone like Derek Wolfe for the Broncos or JJ Watt is also a 3-4 defensive end. Look where they line up most of the time
I really don't like this. You're conflating way too much in this argument. 3-4 and 4-3 are personnel groupings. An okie front, a combo front and a one gap 3-4 don't play anything alike, but can all come out of "3-4 personnel". All you're saying here is that a 3-4 Okie is worse than a 4-3 under. But thats completely different from saying 4-3 > 3-4. My 4+4 front won't play like a 505. And my 22 front plays a lot more like your description of a 3-4 than a 3-4 eagle does. Even though one is out of 4-3 personnel and the other is out of 3-4. Personnel Grouping != Philosophy This is just a simplistic "madden"-esque view of defense. You're better than this.
@@ThatFranchiseGuy Nothing IF you assume that all 4-3s are over and under fronts and all 3-4s are Okies. Issue is that's just not true. Combo fronts, one gap 3-4s, 4-3 stacks, 4-3 combos and all those defenses is what messes this up. A 22 front plays a lot more like your description of a 3-4 than 315 does. And said 315 plays a lot more like your description of a 4-3 than a 22 does. Defensive Philosophy is determined by assignments, not by Personnel groupings.
@@alexis6683 as I said in the video this is much more about the philosophys of teams that run 4-3 vs 3-4 and the differences in supply and demand of the personell of these schemes. I'm not really interested in breaking down the Xs and Os of a bunch of different base fronts that NFL teams don't run often in 2020 anyway.
@@ThatFranchiseGuy But that's an issue that really changes your point. Say I'm running a 3-4 eagle front like the Steeler have ran since forever, I need a two gapping Sam and can afford to have 3 tech types as my 4is, don't need a 5t. My 0 is only a one gap player, so he can be more like an under 1T, my Mike is also essentially covered, allowing for a traditional Will type to play there. Or a 3-4 under like Vic Fangio has ran in Chicago and now Denver. That front is essentially just a 4-3 defense out of 3-4 personnel. Your will is Covered, often fully, your IDL are generally onegapping, your Will is just a stand up DE and your Sam is a traditional Sam.
So what your saying is...that 3-4 is actually the better scheme but it’s just harder to find players who fit that scheme
Kurt Wagner indubitably. 4-3 is great for teams that got great offenses
When I played Madden I mainly ran 3-4. When I coached football we ran the 335/353 (whatever you wanna call it) but honestly you can run a lot of defensive schemes as a form of another depending on personell (eg. You can run a 3-4 with 335 principles).
This is great content. Strategy like this is barely even talked about anymore. Awesome
Nickel, ideally your slot CB is a guy like Malcolm Jenkins or Mathieu (able to play safety effectively).
It's hilarious because teams refer to 3-4 or 4-3 as base and nickel (the shit they use the most) is typically referred to as the sub package.
When theres a dislike already smh why do people dislike without watching the full vid
We ran a hybrid defense so I got to experience both a 3-4 and a 4-3, and from a player's perspective, I would say the best is a 3-4. We ran a one-gap defense and it was much easier to use it in the 3-4 than the 4-3 because the 3-4 allowed people to get to their gaps faster. The 3-4 was also better because it was much easier to disguise blitzes because most of our rushers were already on the line of scrimmage. It did help that we had to interior linebackers that were fast and could play the run like nothing, but they struggled in when we ran 4-3 or 4-2-5. Team building wise I'm more 50/50 because while it is harder to find the right players to fit the scheme, I feel that when you do the run defense becomes impossible to take on.
just came here to drop a like, gotta spotify this been waiting for the next podcast 🙏
As a ravens fan bro it’s the 3-4 or nothing
I agree coming from a long time Pats fan.
If you use the 4-3 the way tom Laundry did it adding what I remember as the flex defense it was used great. Ultimately it depends on your players are they a 3 or 4 player . Is the guys true nose tackle or DT. Do you have a great nickel player that works better than a 4-3 or 3-4. I prefer 4-3 if all things equal I want to big massive DT to clog the middle.
Thanks for clouting me up after I asked this question Marcus 😎
And a 3-4 OLB typically dont cover as good as a 4-3 OLB. But also again teams usually line up in sub packages anyways.
4-3 less flexible but more focused on one job example 4-3DE just worry about getting to the qb for the most part. Edge rushers in 3-4 have to worry about dropping too.
FINALLY SOMEONE DID A COMPARISON OF THE TWO STYLES! 4-3 is better but thank you! Finally!
I really think 3-3-5 is the future. You have the most speed and most flexible coverage ability out of really anything else.
I prefer 4-3 over 3-4 because I like have 2 big boy DTs clogging up the guards and center so the Ends can Tee off on the Tackles. Both have their weaknesses like 4-3 isnt the best on coverage because you got 1 less person on coverage, which can make a difference, but is good against the run while 3-4 sucks on run plays, ESPECIALLY on stretch plays, but is good on coverage since theres more people on coverage. Both defenses are amazing if well put together.
Couldn’t we just call it 4-2 and 2-4 at this point cause we’re always running nickel these days
Could haha
Good insight. If you want any evidence to what he’s saying, look how quickly the Steelers defense fell apart a while ago and just how long it took to get every piece in place to have a good D. Great video 👍
Maybe an idea for a future vid but Id love to hear your opinion on the left tackle vs right tackle value. Its long been considered that LT is significantly more important that RT because of the blind side. But with defenses lining up guys like Mack and Von Miller on the RT, is this logic now outdated?
With regards to the NFL, it doesn't matter since you're in sub packages so much anyways. I guess it could technically make a difference depending on if you want an odd front (like 4i-0-5, TITE/MINT fronts, or a 3-3-5) for your sub package, but for your standard 4-2-5/2-4-5 sub packages it doesn't make much of a difference.
With regards to high school and college, I'd probably say 3-4 since your OLB's will be a lot more flexible and can go in coverage. You can also transition into 3-3-5/Odd front sub package stuff a lot easier and get more speed on the field compared to always having 4 DL. The run fits will translate better too moving from Base Odd front to Sub Odd front compared to Base Even to Sub Odd.
I addressed your first comment early in the video.
4:33 correction sir, they made the change bc they were running a very conservative 3-4 scheme thus hiring steve spagnola who is known for his aggressive 4-3 defense and comes from the coaching tree one of the most aggressive 4-3 defensive coaches of all time jim johnson
I’m a 4-3 guy it’s just more simple
I’m a Packers fan and we’ve been awful in the 3-4 since 2011. I’ve advocated for the switch to a 4-3 and just wish that we would.
3-4 for sure
I will never ever like 3-4.
Why? What's your opinion?
3-4 definitely
4-3
Nickel is the best scheme;)
Grady Jarrett!!!
What happens if say throughout the college ranks 3-4 becomes more popular and we start seeing more players who fit those archetypes, would you then say a 3-4 is a better more efficient defense?
Perhaps. Right now these funky 3-3-5 defenses are making it harder and harder to evaluate college prospects
That Franchise Guy I appreciate your reply
neither. sub packages for the win.
i’d rather run a 3-4 have a great defensive end that can pass rush and the 2 EDGEs that stop the run then have the 2 outside lin backs pass rush while the linebackers and safety’s can go into coverage
Nickel
3-4 in madden. IRL? Idc. Go with what works for your defence
Wish the packers could move to a 4-3
You have no linebackers
Owen Keenan y’all should move Rashan Gary to a 3-4 5 tech instead of having him a EDGE in that system but y’all couldn’t even do that
As someone who charts games for PFF, 3-4 teams in the NFL, when they do go "base". Usually don't have their DEs any wider than a 4i and the edge OLBs are in 5-7 techniques.
caleb queen Isn’t a 5 tech playing outside?
Ryan Taga a 5 tech is playing in between the guards and the tackles. Look at someone like Derek Wolfe for the Broncos or JJ Watt is also a 3-4 defensive end. Look where they line up most of the time
I really don't like this. You're conflating way too much in this argument. 3-4 and 4-3 are personnel groupings. An okie front, a combo front and a one gap 3-4 don't play anything alike, but can all come out of "3-4 personnel". All you're saying here is that a 3-4 Okie is worse than a 4-3 under. But thats completely different from saying 4-3 > 3-4. My 4+4 front won't play like a 505. And my 22 front plays a lot more like your description of a 3-4 than a 3-4 eagle does. Even though one is out of 4-3 personnel and the other is out of 3-4.
Personnel Grouping != Philosophy
This is just a simplistic "madden"-esque view of defense. You're better than this.
Alexis Thomas not too sure he’s actually better than that. look at the vid length
So what did I say in this video that is wrong exactly?...
@@ThatFranchiseGuy Nothing IF you assume that all 4-3s are over and under fronts and all 3-4s are Okies.
Issue is that's just not true.
Combo fronts, one gap 3-4s, 4-3 stacks, 4-3 combos and all those defenses is what messes this up.
A 22 front plays a lot more like your description of a 3-4 than 315 does. And said 315 plays a lot more like your description of a 4-3 than a 22 does.
Defensive Philosophy is determined by assignments, not by Personnel groupings.
@@alexis6683 as I said in the video this is much more about the philosophys of teams that run 4-3 vs 3-4 and the differences in supply and demand of the personell of these schemes.
I'm not really interested in breaking down the Xs and Os of a bunch of different base fronts that NFL teams don't run often in 2020 anyway.
@@ThatFranchiseGuy But that's an issue that really changes your point. Say I'm running a 3-4 eagle front like the Steeler have ran since forever, I need a two gapping Sam and can afford to have 3 tech types as my 4is, don't need a 5t. My 0 is only a one gap player, so he can be more like an under 1T, my Mike is also essentially covered, allowing for a traditional Will type to play there.
Or a 3-4 under like Vic Fangio has ran in Chicago and now Denver.
That front is essentially just a 4-3 defense out of 3-4 personnel. Your will is Covered, often fully, your IDL are generally onegapping, your Will is just a stand up DE and your Sam is a traditional Sam.
Firsttt