Do you need a Mono cartridge to listen to a mono record? No. SHOULD you get a mono cartridge to listen to mono records? Hell yes! I have 17 mono records in my collection and I’ve been listening to them on a stereo cart. And I was not blown away by the sound at all, Even though I have a vintage receiver with a mono switch. Latest additions of Beatle mono albums to my collection finally made me get the Ortofon white mono SE cart. And Holy Crap! NOW I am completely blown away by the sound of my mono albums and find myself searching for more! There Really is Way less surface noise (dead quiet!) and the dynamics and overall sound, as if you’re in the studio with the band, is insane!
Is the mono switch not as good as a dedicated mono cartridge? I have a Grado 78E which is a true mono cartridge for 78s and it sounds better for that application than my Nagaoka MP-110 with a 3 mil stylus added to it. I don't have a mono switch but still.
I've listened to the samples, and there is not very much difference, but with the mono cartridge there is significantly less distortion !! 2:50 min, that's why you are here for.
I have a second tone arm and got my Ortofon Cadenza white today, after testing it myself I can say, YES, you need a mono cartridge. The difference is big, and my stereo tone arm plus preamp cost twice as much, the mono is still way better and I can use it for old and new Mono pressings. Go for it, the difference is worth it.
Personally I prefer the Audio Technica AT VM670SP for playing 78s & swapping the stylus for a 610 for mono vinyl. Btw, 78s are not quite as delicate as you imply. True, they'll possibly break or chip if dropped or bashed onto a hard surface, or accidentally sat on (!), otherwise they're quite hardy. Normal day to day handling and playing won't cause any risk to them at all. However, one thing you should NEVER do, should you need to clean your 78s, is to use commercial record cleaning fluid. It will actually melt the shellac and destroy your record. Clean with regular washing up liquid then rinse with plenty of distilled water (tap water contains lime which can increase surface noise) & dry with a clean cloth. Enjoy the music!
i read your report with great interest, though i have few mono records and cannot justify going to the expense of a mono cartridge i used a conical shape stereo cartridge for my experiments. I used an amp with a mono switch and swapped my AT VM95 shibata stylus for a conical stereo stylus from the same range. playing mono copies of Tchaikovsky,Dvorak symohonies and early Beatles, the best music for any tests, i found the shibata stylus was very clear though with slight distortion and surface noise, switching it for the conical stylus made it sound slightly more stable and eliminated some background noise, with the mono option on the amp it had a very similar soundstage, generally it quietened the surface noise between tracks, on stereo the soundstage was widened and the whole thing sounded slightly more noisy between tracks or on quiet passages, so i think though mono stylus will probably be best a conical stereo stylus for me is the best sounding option, though stereo will usually sound better than mono except on some older records on modern equipment, which is why mono was consigned to history. The soft clipping option on my amp helped keep the sound from being over bright and a little smoother on old Beatle records, the sound also has a thickness, fullness and depth to it. My mono albums never sounded better now, perhaps i'll be looking for some more, and save up for a mono stylus too (-:
Thank you for the video. there are many different cuts. What you refer to as lateral cut are the old 78rpm records, has nothing to do with modern mono. Modern mono are diagonal cut, similar to stereo but with the same information on both sides of the groove. As it says on the sleeve they can usually be played with stereo or mono equipment. Yes they sound better with a true mono, for different reason and of course a Ortofon SPU mono or Ortofon A from the 60 with a 25u tip sound great but these are MC type cartridges. and therefore require step up transformers and. 65u tip ar for 78's. having an old phono stage with different equalisation helps because the RIAA standard, even though introduced in 1958-59. Wasn't actually totally introduced until much later. Plenty of labels doesn't sound right on RIAA. But that might be going to far into the details of things. Thanks again!
I agree with all your listening impressions and fully believe mono records sound better with a mono cart. One nit about your description: as you say, mono carts only have x-y information, and stereo has x-y-z. but these separate signals are right and left. For backward compatibility the x-y signal in A=R+L. This way a mono cart would still hear both channels. The new signal on z is B=R-L, which the mono cart would ignore. To reconstruct stereo you do: R=(A+B)/2 and L=(A-B)/2. With this you can clearly see (hear?) how noise can get into monos. For a mono LP B be zero, but it never is. That signal is pure noise
Back in the 70s , playing with tape machines, I discovered that if the two channels were run together instead of grounded, it would bring out odd channels of the mix that you might never normally hear. For example the recording of Van Halen - Beautiful Girls you would hear about 90% Eddies guitar and 10% the rest of the music. Most Rolling Stones you would hear about 90% backup vocals and rhythm guitar. While it was strange and hard to figure how it did that with two channels on tape that is truly separate, I found it even more bizarre that it would occur even with a stereo record. You can get close to a stylus playing a stereo record without any amplification and hear the ‘ stereo ‘ , I was wondering how a record could have enough separation to achieve this effect? This presentation shows some of how that is possible.
A ‘strapped’ mono cart is not a true mono cart. It just has the left and right channels combined to give the same signal from both channels. So you end up with a combination of signals from the vertical and lateral direction in both channels. Grado makes a true mono cart, that has only one set of coils that can pick up signal only in the lateral direction. The GE RPX and VR-II are also good examples of true mono carts.
Thanks for your addition. According to Ortofon, The CG25 and CG65 DI MKII models they make are single coil MC models with no vertical compliance. All other Mono models that we make (including 2M Mono) are not single coil designs, and they all have vertical compliance - but the orientation of the coil assembly cancels out the sensitivity to vertical movement of the stylus unit. The terminals are bridged so that both sets of pins output the same signal. In short, it would appear there is essentially no output from the vertical modulation.
If my vintage preamp has a “Mono” setting, and I install a Mono Cartridge and Stylus, would I keep my preamp setting on “Stereo” instead of switching to “Mono?” It seems to me that the preamp “Mono” setting attempts to compensate a stereo cartridge playing a mono record….and this “compensation” is not needed if I use a true Mono Cartridge and Stylus. Thanks in advance for responding!
Thanks Robert. From my understanding, since you'll only be picking up a mono signal, applying the mono switch will do, in effect, nothing. It won't do any harm either though.
Just bought a Rega P1 eco to use as a dedicated mono deck, I will probably go for the AT610mono cartridge at £130 as I believe it doesn’t need spacers. I only have a few dozen mono records so don’t really want to spend much more on this set up but would be glad of any advice on alternatives if anyone has any ideas.
What type of sound can you expect, if you drop the mono cartridge's stylus on a stereo pressing? It will be mono, of course. But will it sound good (assuming the pressing is a good one)? Or will it sound weird? Is it bad for the mono stylus to engage a stereo groove? Will you damage, or shorten the life of a mono stylus, if you use it on stereo records?
yes a mono stylus will cause irreperable damage to a stereo record, a stereo stylus can be used on mono records though a conical shape stylus will eliminate some noise.
I just got a reissue of Donovan's first album. It does not say mono but sounds mono. It plays great on my 2m blue. Do I need a Mono or the stereo is just fine?
Most likely mono as it's 1965 I think. You can play it just fine with the 2M Blue, though you may notice less surface noise and more focus in the sound with a mono cartridge. You can also get a large part of the way there using a phono switch. Hope that helps. Enjoy the music
I do like mono recordings more; they are less prone to surface noise. They also seem to have more information which seems to get lost in all that stereo up-down, left-right motion. Stereo is not as great as once thought. Most people are moving around whilst listening. For a good stereo listen, one must sit at the sweet spot and not turn one's head.
What about a mono switch on the amplifier? Summing the channels seems to work, though one old-timer told me "it seems to suck the life out of the music" -- but a slight bass and treble adjustment can make up for the -3dB floor drop.
Some will do this, but it can't eliminate the cross-talk and phase cancellation of some frequencies caused by a stereo cartridge producing two channels of signal. Phase cancellation likely explains why it sounds like the life is sucked out of the music when using a mono switch. Hope that helps and makes sense.
I have a number of remaster/reissue records from the 1950s. Many have no information of MONO or STEREO. I have both a mono phonograph (Grado Prestige+) and stereo (Ortophon M10). How can I determine if the reissue is cut as a true mono or stereo with both channels equal. Should I assume anything without STEREO on jacket or label is a MONO pressing? Will it damage my reissue playing it on my mono cartridge if it is not true mono.
As I understand it; you can play a mono record with a stereo cartridge because a stereo cartridge can move laterally as monos are cut. You should not play stereo records with a mono cartridge because mono cartridges move laterally not vertically and will damage sterio record grooves. A conical stylus shape is probably safe for mono, styrene and all other records be they stereo or mono. Joe Collins has a site that discusses these issues. I share your concern and confusion.
To my ears, there are cartridges that can play both mono and stereo records very well. Sadly, these cartridges are very, very expensive like the $3,000 Van Den Hull Grasshopper. 😐
Not quite the same sadly. A stereo cartridge will never quite produce the same signal on both channels, and you'll still be susceptible to the inherent phase issues and cross-talk that are inherent as a result. Also, because a mono cart doesn't read the vertical element of a record groove, you'll get a clearer signal with a true mono cart. Less surface noise.
Do you need a Mono cartridge to listen to a mono record? No. SHOULD you get a mono cartridge to listen to mono records? Hell yes! I have 17 mono records in my collection and I’ve been listening to them on a stereo cart. And I was not blown away by the sound at all, Even though I have a vintage receiver with a mono switch. Latest additions of Beatle mono albums to my collection finally made me get the Ortofon white mono SE cart. And Holy Crap! NOW I am completely blown away by the sound of my mono albums and find myself searching for more! There Really is Way less surface noise (dead quiet!) and the dynamics and overall sound, as if you’re in the studio with the band, is insane!
Is the mono switch not as good as a dedicated mono cartridge? I have a Grado 78E which is a true mono cartridge for 78s and it sounds better for that application than my Nagaoka MP-110 with a 3 mil stylus added to it. I don't have a mono switch but still.
I've listened to the samples, and there is not very much difference, but with the mono cartridge there is significantly less distortion !!
2:50 min, that's why you are here for.
I have a second tone arm and got my Ortofon Cadenza white today, after testing it myself I can say, YES, you need a mono cartridge. The difference is big, and my stereo tone arm plus preamp cost twice as much, the mono is still way better and I can use it for old and new Mono pressings. Go for it, the difference is worth it.
Personally I prefer the Audio Technica AT VM670SP for playing 78s & swapping the stylus for a 610 for mono vinyl.
Btw, 78s are not quite as delicate as you imply. True, they'll possibly break or chip if dropped or bashed onto a hard surface, or accidentally sat on (!), otherwise they're quite hardy. Normal day to day handling and playing won't cause any risk to them at all.
However, one thing you should NEVER do, should you need to clean your 78s, is to use commercial record cleaning fluid. It will actually melt the shellac and destroy your record. Clean with regular washing up liquid then rinse with plenty of distilled water (tap water contains lime which can increase surface noise) & dry with a clean cloth.
Enjoy the music!
i read your report with great interest, though i have few mono records and cannot justify going to the expense of a mono cartridge i used a conical shape stereo cartridge for my experiments. I used an amp with a mono switch and swapped my AT VM95 shibata stylus for a conical stereo stylus from the same range. playing mono copies of Tchaikovsky,Dvorak symohonies and early Beatles, the best music for any tests, i found the shibata stylus was very clear though with slight distortion and surface noise, switching it for the conical stylus made it sound slightly more stable and eliminated some background noise, with the mono option on the amp it had a very similar soundstage, generally it quietened the surface noise between tracks, on stereo the soundstage was widened and the whole thing sounded slightly more noisy between tracks or on quiet passages, so i think though mono stylus will probably be best a conical stereo stylus for me is the best sounding option, though stereo will usually sound better than mono except on some older records on modern equipment, which is why mono was consigned to history. The soft clipping option on my amp helped keep the sound from being over bright and a little smoother on old Beatle records, the sound also has a thickness, fullness and depth to it. My mono albums never sounded better now, perhaps i'll be looking for some more, and save up for a mono stylus too (-:
Thank you for the video. there are many different cuts. What you refer to as lateral cut are the old 78rpm records, has nothing to do with modern mono. Modern mono are diagonal cut, similar to stereo but with the same information on both sides of the groove. As it says on the sleeve they can usually be played with stereo or mono equipment. Yes they sound better with a true mono, for different reason and of course a Ortofon SPU mono or Ortofon A from the 60 with a 25u tip sound great but these are MC type cartridges. and therefore require step up transformers and. 65u tip ar for 78's. having an old phono stage with different equalisation helps because the RIAA standard, even though introduced in 1958-59. Wasn't actually totally introduced until much later. Plenty of labels doesn't sound right on RIAA. But that might be going to far into the details of things. Thanks again!
Cool. Thanks for the additional details
I agree with all your listening impressions and fully believe mono records sound better with a mono cart. One nit about your description: as you say, mono carts only have x-y information, and stereo has x-y-z. but these separate signals are right and left. For backward compatibility the x-y signal in A=R+L. This way a mono cart would still hear both channels. The new signal on z is B=R-L, which the mono cart would ignore. To reconstruct stereo you do: R=(A+B)/2 and L=(A-B)/2. With this you can clearly see (hear?) how noise can get into monos. For a mono LP B be zero, but it never is. That signal is pure noise
Back in the 70s , playing with tape machines, I discovered that if the two channels were run together instead of grounded, it would bring out odd channels of the mix that you might never normally hear. For example the recording of Van Halen - Beautiful Girls you would hear about 90% Eddies guitar and 10% the rest of the music. Most Rolling Stones you would hear about 90% backup vocals and rhythm guitar.
While it was strange and hard to figure how it did that with two channels on tape that is truly separate, I found it even more bizarre that it would occur even with a stereo record.
You can get close to a stylus playing a stereo record without any amplification and hear the ‘ stereo ‘ , I was wondering how a record could have enough separation to achieve this effect?
This presentation shows some of how that is possible.
If I had a turntable that had 2-3 tonearms, I might consider buying a mono cartridge. Mono records sound good enough to me using stereo cartridge.
A ‘strapped’ mono cart is not a true mono cart. It just has the left and right channels combined to give the same signal from both channels. So you end up with a combination of signals from the vertical and lateral direction in both channels. Grado makes a true mono cart, that has only one set of coils that can pick up signal only in the lateral direction. The GE RPX and VR-II are also good examples of true mono carts.
Thanks for your addition. According to Ortofon, The CG25 and CG65 DI MKII models they make are single coil MC models with no vertical compliance. All other Mono models that we make (including 2M Mono) are not single coil designs, and they all have vertical compliance - but the orientation of the coil assembly cancels out the sensitivity to vertical movement of the stylus unit. The terminals are bridged so that both sets of pins output the same signal.
In short, it would appear there is essentially no output from the vertical modulation.
If my vintage preamp has a “Mono” setting, and I install a Mono Cartridge and Stylus, would I keep my preamp setting on “Stereo” instead of switching to “Mono?” It seems to me that the preamp “Mono” setting attempts to compensate a stereo cartridge playing a mono record….and this “compensation” is not needed if I use a true Mono Cartridge and Stylus. Thanks in advance for responding!
Thanks Robert. From my understanding, since you'll only be picking up a mono signal, applying the mono switch will do, in effect, nothing. It won't do any harm either though.
Just bought a Rega P1 eco to use as a dedicated mono deck, I will probably go for the AT610mono cartridge at £130 as I believe it doesn’t need spacers. I only have a few dozen mono records so don’t really want to spend much more on this set up but would be glad of any advice on alternatives if anyone has any ideas.
What type of sound can you expect, if you drop the mono cartridge's stylus on a stereo pressing?
It will be mono, of course. But will it sound good (assuming the pressing is a good one)? Or will it sound weird?
Is it bad for the mono stylus to engage a stereo groove? Will you damage, or shorten the life of a mono stylus, if you use it on stereo records?
yes a mono stylus will cause irreperable damage to a stereo record, a stereo stylus can be used on mono records though a conical shape stylus will eliminate some noise.
The Ortofon OM series is interchangeable as well, and is very close in performance, IMO, as well as a little less expensive.
I just got a reissue of Donovan's first album. It does not say mono but sounds mono. It plays great on my 2m blue. Do I need a Mono or the stereo is just fine?
Most likely mono as it's 1965 I think. You can play it just fine with the 2M Blue, though you may notice less surface noise and more focus in the sound with a mono cartridge. You can also get a large part of the way there using a phono switch. Hope that helps. Enjoy the music
@@soundmatters thank you for taking the time to answer
Isn’t it just as good to hit the mono switch on your amplifier? I am lucky to have one and that’s generally how I handle mono vinyl.
I do like mono recordings more; they are less prone to surface noise. They also seem to have more information which seems to get lost in all that stereo up-down, left-right motion. Stereo is not as great as once thought. Most people are moving around whilst listening. For a good stereo listen, one must sit at the sweet spot and not turn one's head.
Hello
Question if anyone can advise?
Can a mono cartridge (eg the ortofon 2m) be fitted to a ‘normal’/ standard headshell?
Thanks
Assuming you mean fitting the 2M Mono to a standard half-inch headsell, then yes.
@@soundmatters many thank 😃👍
Whats the Stereo cartridge tested against the 2M Mono?
It's a Pro-Ject Pick-It - basically a re-branded Ortofon. Very similar to a 2M Red.
@@soundmatters A bit biased of a comparison though, since its not the same cart really.
What about a mono switch on the amplifier? Summing the channels seems to work, though one old-timer told me "it seems to suck the life out of the music" -- but a slight bass and treble adjustment can make up for the -3dB floor drop.
Some will do this, but it can't eliminate the cross-talk and phase cancellation of some frequencies caused by a stereo cartridge producing two channels of signal. Phase cancellation likely explains why it sounds like the life is sucked out of the music when using a mono switch. Hope that helps and makes sense.
you can actually also fix this with a mono switch in your amp if you have it!
Can anyone recommend a mono stylus Stanton EE-style that won’t break the bank?
I have a number of remaster/reissue records from the 1950s. Many have no information of MONO or STEREO. I have both a mono phonograph (Grado Prestige+) and stereo (Ortophon M10). How can I determine if the reissue is cut as a true mono or stereo with both channels equal. Should I assume anything without STEREO on jacket or label is a MONO pressing? Will it damage my reissue playing it on my mono cartridge if it is not true mono.
As I understand it; you can play a mono record with a stereo cartridge because a stereo cartridge can move laterally as monos are cut.
You should not play stereo records with a mono cartridge because mono cartridges move laterally not vertically and will damage sterio record grooves.
A conical stylus shape is probably safe for mono, styrene and all other records be they stereo or mono.
Joe Collins has a site that discusses these issues.
I share your concern and confusion.
Here is an idea,switch (if you have one)your "stereo /mono"
switch on your Amp,to Mono??!
does this cart have 2 coils? just like the Shure M78S. I use the 78S with 35C stylus to play mono 33 & 45
I believe so. They say it has a "strapped output" to ensure the same output from both poles.
@@soundmatters Has anyone ever made a single pole true mono cart with a 4 pin out?
I wonder when the world is going to discover mono
To my ears, there are cartridges that can play both mono and stereo records very well. Sadly, these cartridges are very, very expensive like the $3,000 Van Den Hull Grasshopper. 😐
Damn. Yea, $3000 a little out of my budget
Stereo was labelled as bi-naural. Or Multiplex. Purists prefer the Mono recordings.
If i put mono switch in my aplifier, i Got all this for free
Not quite the same sadly. A stereo cartridge will never quite produce the same signal on both channels, and you'll still be susceptible to the inherent phase issues and cross-talk that are inherent as a result. Also, because a mono cart doesn't read the vertical element of a record groove, you'll get a clearer signal with a true mono cart. Less surface noise.