Can God Face Up To Evil? | Episode 1009 | Closer To Truth
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2020
- If I seek God and avoid "the problem of evil," I fool myself. If there is a God, evil is God's hardest problem. If there is no God, evil is No-God's easiest evidence. Featuring interviews with John Hick, Stephen Law, Paul Fiddes, Anthony Grayling, and Robert Russell.
Season 10, Episode 9 - #CloserToTruth
▶Register for free at CTT.com for subscriber-only exclusives: bit.ly/2GXmFsP
Closer To Truth host Robert Lawrence Kuhn takes viewers on an intriguing global journey into cutting-edge labs, magnificent libraries, hidden gardens, and revered sanctuaries in order to discover state-of-the-art ideas and make them real and relevant.
▶Free access to Closer to Truth's library of 5,000 videos: bit.ly/376lkKN
Closer to Truth presents the world’s greatest thinkers exploring humanity’s deepest questions. Discover fundamental issues of existence. Engage new and diverse ways of thinking. Appreciate intense debates. Share your own opinions. Seek your own answers.
#God #Evil
![KFF Singapore Badminton Open 2024 | Alfian/Ardianto (INA) [7] vs. Liang/Wang (CHN) | QF](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/g0QGafkoT2o/mqdefault.jpg)
The universe is so vast and things are so old it seems dumb to think a god exists that has feelings like love or anxiety like we do. If a god exists, it is so alien and different than us that human emotions probably don't apply.
Where does the human emotions derive from...
That’s the miracle, Johnny. In some important sense we’ve been made in his image. We emulate God, not the other way around.
@@timothymeeks1408 biology and psychology.... It's pretty well documented.
@Daniel Battiato. It seems to me, though, that biology and psychology goes no more to the root of the answer than does the assembly line as the source of the automobile.
@@thebacons5943 If you go that way, then God is also responsible for every child who dies of cancer as well as "natural" disasters, too! Ppl give God credit for the good things and in the same breath somehow he's not responsible for the bad. That world view is just not internally consistent.
It's hard to accept a God that lays such a heavy burden on humans to understand the evil and suffering in the world.
If the afterlife is eternal and free of suffering, then this life is no more than an infinitely small point on an infinitely long line. That's as close to no suffering and no evil as you can get.
Then why would God even bother to put us here?
Which version of the afterlife? The afterlife for those who are tagged as 'evil' upon their death?
There is really no argument that supports the proposition that there is an omnibenevolent, omnipotent and omniscient god. There may be a god, but one of these 'omni's is defecient in its properties.
Keep on that journey,I'm right behind you,we cant stop now Mr.Frodo
I really wish this would cover more than just abrahamic or atheist views. There are so many religions of the world, and i would've love to hear their side as well.
I feel the same, except in this regard: before leaving the abrhamic perspective, I think we should consider statements in the New Testament that are relevant to this issue and more substantive than anything mentioned by the contemporary thinkers. For example, the very title of the gospel ("good news") that Jesus brought us is the "Kingdom of God," which directly addresses the question at issue. At the core of that gospel is that Jesus will return to earth, taking to Himself the power and authority over all nations. From this it follows that until Jesus does that, He doesn’t reign. In other words, until then, God has a hands-off policy on this world. We would do well, in searching out thus question, to consider what the abrahamic view says as to when and why that hands-off policy was put into effect.
It is the nature of Being to give of Itself--- to Love. Love is a creative act that need not entail suffering. Love in a void however is excruciating. For to overcome evil with good is to give to an endless vacuum. Christ on the Cross is not simply an example of this but is the very person of God-- for God is Love. God gives continually even to the point of death and hell.
No such thing as good without bad (evil)
“It was miraculous. It was almost no trick at all, he saw, to turn vice into virtue and slander into truth, impotence into abstinence, arrogance into humility, plunder into philanthropy, thievery into honor, blasphemy into wisdom, brutality into patriotism, and sadism into justice. Anybody could do it; it required no brains at all. It merely required no character.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22
The universe is born of chaos. ("Evil" is just our interpretation of it.). The natural tendency is towards entropy. To have life, you have to buck this trend. There is "self" and "other". The bacterial cell has a cell wall separating "self" and "environment". It's a constant struggle for survival, to maintain this separation, maintain the integrity of the organism. Evolution is a competition (sometime cooperation) for survival. The Meeseeks in Rick and Morty state that "Existence is pain". The fact of suffering is the first noble truth in Buddhism. (This also comes closest to Robert Russell's point about thermodynamics.)
"Evil is just our interpretation of it" --- One would be hard pressed to retain this philosophy were it not detached from experience.
@@andrewferg8737 First Noble Truth in Buddhism is the fact of "suffering". This occurs at various levels.
@@mintakan003 The Buddha correctly identifies suffering and evil. His solution however, is non existence. That would also be an evil since God is Being.
@@andrewferg8737 I agree with you, from the human point of view, it is not an abstract philosophical consideration. I prefer to use the term "suffering" to describe a basic fact of existence.
The term "evil", I might use for human beings, who deliberately intend to cause pain to others, and enjoy doing it, for. its own sake. Most people are not like that, even when they do "bad" things. There are a few that are (e.g. "sociopathic" individuals). A meteor hitting earth, I would probably not apply this term.
@@mintakan003 Suffering is basic fact of this world, but not a fact of existence. It is the privation of Being which brings suffering, death, and the void. Being is a continual creative act which does not necessitate suffering--- God is Love. Love in vacuum is what results in suffering, the continual filling of the void we call evil, to overcome evil with good. That is suffering, and that is this world. That is God consumed and murdered by his creatures. That is Christ on the Cross.
In the early 1980's, Australian philosopher and atheist J.L. Mackie wrote, “Since this defense is formally possible, and its principle involves no real abandonment of our ordinary view of the opposition between good and evil, we can concede that the problem of evil does not, after all, show that the central doctrines of theism are logically inconsistent with one another.”
"But then the vital question is this: can the theist maintain that the only evils that occur in the world are absorbed evils?"
Funny how all theists engage in quote-mining.
@@user-dy3uh Less than funny when atheists confuse creation with privation.
All power comes from God. The darkness gets its power from light, so God will defeat a foe that is weaker than him...
Love all topics
One of the principal keys behind suffering and evil is free will. The Genesis story about the fall illustrates this very clearly. That freedom was offered to Adam and Eve in the garden. Evil entered the world because man chose to have Knowledge of good and evil. This was moral evil that ended up with man committing all the evils which in turn ended up with mans journey back to God through Abraham and the Ten Commandments instituted by God through Moses. Throughout the Old Testament the main theme is about Gods Love. This is clearly illustrated in the Biblical narratives the prophets, the wisdom literature and psalms etc. Finally God's Love was exemplified through His Son The Lord Jesus Christ. God was willing to share in the suffering of mankind by allowing His Own Son to be nailed to a Cross. The beauty is that we still have that freedom that was offered to the first Adam to chose The Way, The Truth, and The Life. For God so loved the world. Praise God. Amen. Thanks for reading. John B.
First of all the bible has no divine authority and there's no such thing as divine. Now why would this god not know that creating this freedom would bring about such evil and suffering? Believing in these things is comical
Isn't this story of the apple tree and freedom of choice sort of black and white thinking? Could it be instead that god in this story somewhat "overdid" the freedom part?
Do you often love your children so much that you give them "freedom" to predictably kill themselves through their incompetence? And then blame the children at the end too? Is such freedom enabling or suffocating?
What about having some golden middle way sort of freedom instead? Surely god knows better than only primitive and abrupt ways of thinking.
I am not saying that there cannot be a god. But such mean description of god as in the apple story is just insulting. It tells more about the mental level of the believer than about the god.
Brilliant Robert, brilliant..
There is no afterlife but there is reincarnation. This explains the truth of things.... Reincarnation is the soul's journey to perfection...
Stephen Law is really smart.
The exiatence of God's goodness does not make evil necessary. Neither does the existence of God free will make evil necessary.
Correct. No evil required. It's quite clear if one reads the instructions.
A gem cannot be polished without friction, nor a man perfected without trials. - Seneca
That's taken completely out of context😅
@@lukedavis6711 How so?
I have an equation that describes evil. Evil = (Complete Knowledge * Complete Ability) - (Current Knowledge * Current Ability). Good video...love CTT.
@@TheWorldTeacher Take all of your accounts and troll elsewhere.
Evil is the privation of good. The knowledge of evil, as any drug addict will testify, is a lesson better left unlearned.
Your "equation" describes the original deception. The only wisdom gained through the "knowledge of evil" is a realization that it is a lesson better left unlearned.
I don't get it
Why should I participate in a classroom where what teacher teaches is beyond my comprehension.... If I am an intelligent being i must be able to understand
We must find the teacher who knows how to teach US, as an individual.
@@a.p.5906 sometimes we are our own greatest tecahers
From my perspective good and evil are moral judgments that we place on the things and people we perceive with our minds through our senses. There fore God is neither all Good or all evil but who like us, who are made in his image, is a moral agent who veiws and perceives things through a moral lens. Natural events that cause suffering are not evil but just events which we call evil because of the suffering experieced as the result of those events.
Yes....reality is a place of soul making and a person making, the world must not be a paradise .. an earth with no obstacles, nothing to challenge us would not do.. it has to be difficulties to be overcome , because its these that are person- making ... yes that makes sense...and also that we are here to find out who am I ? because I know deep down thru my reactions and choices and actions here in life the truth about me. And we need to learn to be honest...Yes I believe there is a meaning for us to be here and now... all do have a meaning but it might seem very random.. but even in the random is a progress and shaping. All is for a reason, but I think nobody and no teachings have THE truth... I try to be honest to my self and not a blind follower of trends, leaders,doctrines and teachings but still listen to them all and I love christianity as I find a depth there that one can miss at first sight. And I do believe we need science for our progress in this realm of nature , even science has to truly be honest, true and NOT follow leaders or let money be the leading force.
"Nothing to challenge us" & "soul making" does not require evil.
Suffering exists as long as we don't realize God
Everyone is destined to realize God eventually
I don't even know what that means. Is it something like flundering SomberFarken?
sreekanth chintala No.
the god contradiction of an all powerful/all knowing god who therefore must have created evil as well, also disproves the "what if your wrong". God created wrong. He made those who are wrong to be sinful, and then threw them in hell.
@@TheWorldTeacher did you heard about traumatised animals?
@@TheWorldTeacher It's like hell and damnation, and thinking of ways of salvaging it are the revelations of their lives. This is the grand puzzle, the only puzzle they've ever solved/thought of. So, they think it's real.
Great content
Dont get fooled by "amount" of "evil"....for every 1 bad/evil thing that happens...thousands of very good things happen...its not blatant and a media sensation like bad things..but good outweighs bad by far.....even.if its. Offering your seat to an elderly on public transport...it outweighs evil...a smile at a stranger...just when that person needs it...is transformative
Thank you for another thoughtful contribution in your video series.
My take.
The problem of evil, especially natural evil, is far too powerful and compelling to do anything but extinguish the theodicies and the argument for “God”, as TRADITIONALLY DEFINED.
Such a being, entity, force, source or primordial reality could not exist and be either All Powerful or All Good or both.
That leaves open either 1. No God, or 2. No God as we know it.
I am less persuaded about the theoretical postulate of an AFTERLIFE. Or that it somehow changes the rules of the game and allows for a traditionally-defined God.
A distant, undefined and unproven Afterlife is a weak argument in my view. I think it cannot justify the pain and horror of the evil of the here and now.
Any justification has to be far deeper and more profound, if it exists at all.
But that is a discussion for another day. For now, I feel that we’re inching closer to truth.
Thanks again for the video.
That God create everything good, does that include the possibility of evil? If the goodness of creation by God includes the possibility of evil, would that mean God is indirectly responsible for evil, perhaps in the dynamic of greater good?
God is Being. What is misused freedom except the choice to not be? This privation is what we call evil, or recognize incrementally as chaos and suffering.
"Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you." (Exodus 3)
"Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not?" (Proverbs 23)
"Those who contended with You shall be as nothing, as a nonexistent thing." (Isaiah 41)
"I Am the vine, ye are the branches...apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15)
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Does good(ness) of God grow in a number of ways, with evil being the lack of growing good? Does evil have something to do with the transition of good from potential to actual?
Evil is the privation of good.
An evil omnipotent being wouldn't have to face up to evil.
17:34 that look of shame.
No, instead it would need to face up to the good. Same issue, different side of the coin.
@@kierharris976 Not really. The evil in the world far outweighs the good. The good is only there to provide a foil for comparison in the minds of the suffering, which serves to heighten their misery.
Rhyothemis princeps I mean this is obviously a subjective statement with no grounds on which to call it objective fact.
Stephen J. Gould once mentioned to me that animals eat while the victims are alive including humans.
Prof.Dr Nasir Fazal Cambridge USA 🇺🇸
From the depths of my heart...I say this...I know nothing... intellectually...it has broken me...but my opinion for whatever it's worth...I would choose non-existence.
Choose life, Timothy. Too many people love you, and too many more will love you in the future.
Hey Timothy…I like…the way…you write…
It's simple. In eternity. There is no suffering. So you sit there with all good, no bad. Yippi doodles... probem is you are bored to all ends. So for a couple of years you experience a life . With good and evil. Then go back to sitting in eternity again .
It's a short walk between theodicy and a sanitarium.
Sense of evil points to a sense of good that is possible and desired. Belief that God exists includes existence of good beyond evil.
The notion of "good beyond evil" is an error with dire consequences, both historical and personal. God is Good. No evil required.
@@andrewferg8737 no evil required, but is there evil?
@@jamesruscheinski8602 Evil is a privation of the good.
But I do have a question, if we can't or shouldn't challenge "God" should we not challenge "evil" ?
Have you ever asked who is the creator GOD of the CORPORATION? That Adam is the CORPORATE STATE, THE BAR. Eve, the CORPORATE CHURCH, JUDICIAL branch. THE BAR is the creator GOD of the CORPORATION. The CHURCH is their CON science(against science). All men, CORPORATIONS, are created equal as individual freewill sovereigns to self-govern. Women refers to courts. Evil deeds to lawyers and evil ways to judges. Why is a creation story legalistic rather than scientific?
@@ophidiaparaclete 🤔
Love is the challenge to evil. God is Love. God is Christ on the Cross.
@@andrewferg8737 the question is still there. The devil a "fallen angel " some good should be left.
@@edwardandrade4390 Correct. In so much a creature exists, it still participates to some degree, however depravedly or perversely, in Being. Zero participation in Being is non-existence. Privation of Being by degrees is "evil."
Natural evil could be a necessary trigger for human evil *and* human good ... simply by forcing us to hedge against hunger/cold/fear etc.
Sometimes to the benefit of our fellow man. By stimulating creativity and altruism.
Sometimes to the detriment of our fellow man. By stimulating egotism and greed.
The choice is freely ours, and soon becomes part of our individual persona, even when we don't realize it.
What if this is the *one* thing God can't snap his fingers to create; Benevolent intelligent individuals (remember; he tried and ended up with Satan).
... And for God, the idea of the entire Universe, could be to create peers to share existence with. As in eternal companionship, instead of eternal emptiness.
5- I wrote 1,2,3 before looking at the video based on the title, and after watching that I knew there would be no satisfactory answers that could be answered reasonably logically by the guests.
Metaphysician philosopher
One Angel binds satan in chains.
What’s the deal with that Round Tower intro shot? No mention of beautiful Copenhagen. 😀
Man's job to face up to evil. Plenty of help from the universe to do that, but the decision and the actions are up to us... probability.
Everything begins with choice...
Simple question. If there is an all powerful, all knowing, and especially, an all good God, then why is there any need for a St. Jude's hospital?
Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to choose, to "know" evil--- to put himself in the place of God thus experiencing the privation of good by degrees. The knowledge of evil is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife. The knowledge of evil is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia that evil may be seen for what it is. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ. Indeed, it is the miracle of the triune God alone that He can call a universe into being from nothing, command light to shine in the darkness, and transform death into life, but God does not, has never, and will never require evil.
@@andrewferg8737 Makes no sense. Doesn't address the question. Not worth further response.
@@bobtimster62 We all agree that suffering should be just bit less, chaos a bit more orderly, and evil in general a bit less dark... That however, is called mercy, not evil.
@@andrewferg8737 The evil it appears may be free will. How could a God of the three Omnis permit free will if free will opened the doors to the horrific suffering that exists in this world.
@@sebastiancandor8680 Evil is nothing in itself but rather a privation of the good. Freedom to will the good and to act upon that will is not a privation, but rather an expression of the good. Evil results in an enslaved will unable and unwilling to act upon the good. This is evident in our daily experience, for we struggle to do the good with great effort, yet our failures to will and to do the good remain effortless and come to nought.
👉📣Time lapse 24:05 Dear Robert you this beautiful SMILE= you don't believe so 🤔😊
Free will
Free will is debatable, not needed on a loosh farm.
Evil is nothing more than unintended consequences. Period.
For example, oxygen is needed for life, but it also feeds fire.
Computer professionals know all too well, that fixing a bug may cause problems in seemingly unrelated areas.
Complexity is unpredictability.
So God had the choice between a very simple, predictable, good-all universe and the one He created.
3-Freedom is not possible while living.
Yet it does not mean there will be an afterlife.
However, afterlife is...
Metaphysician philosopher
🙏💖Exactly, one of the many many many, many, many, whys I'm agnostic
I’m Robert Lawrence khuan
You don't need faith when you search with all your ❤ the spirit will come to you 💯%
And unless you really believe in God he will give you no answers into his existence, you'll get no understanding or anything.
Piety is a key gift of the holy spirit with piety the rest will come
I guess my first sticking point is that I don't believe in free will. My actions are determined by my history, if I had a different history I would quite likely make very different decisions to the ones that I do make. Also there is the problem that god sucks as an educator/parent. Every book on education says that the best strategy to teach is to give reliable and immediate feedback. God does not give reliable and immediate feedback, instead he waits until you die and then judges you for things you may have done decades prior. There is no opportunity to learn or do better in this system, because you can't know what the rules are until after you are dead.
I hope there is no god to judge me when I die. That would be really embarrassing.
@@jeffamos9854 Which god are you referring to? Odin, Anubis, Yahweh, Allah? Humans have invented so many and none of them stand out as any more credible than the others, and they all judge on different standards.
@@KonradZielinski Of course the Egyptian cat god bastet. Manifested thru my cat freeway. Mother of nurturing and destroyer of mice.
All we can really do is seek out and learn as much as we can with an open mind! While free will may not exist, we have the choice to choose how we react to new knowledge. I just wanted to tell you that as a believer, just because the "immediate feedback" hasn't happened to you, doesn't mean it's not there. I have personally experienced that and I'm sure many have as well. This can also come with spiritual study.
@@lenny6923 Study? I hated studying in college. Just wanted to have fun and party. Do I need to repent for being a mischievous student.
If He could, He would have done that by now.
@@TheWorldTeacher Boring copypasta.
@@TheWorldTeacher Take all of your accounts and troll elsewhere.
@Lightbringer Take all of your accounts and troll and lie elsewhere. Is that fully understood, LYING TROLL?
@@TheWorldTeacher SPAMMING FANATIC SNAKE-OIL SALESMAN. Is that English enough for you?
How would you know?
If it is not pointless, cruel, vindictive, and without meaning then it would not be evil. Evil deprives, consumes, and destroys and provides no rational conclusion. Evil admits of no exit except to heap-up or hollow-out additional evil. Mankind chose, and with each moment of a violated conscience continues to
choose, to "know" evil--- to put himself in the place of God thus experiencing the privation of God by degrees. This is an intimate and experiential knowledge, as in Adam "knew" his wife. The knowledge of evil is immersive, taught in real time, is as unforgiving as mathematics, and is as pointless as childhood leukemia that evil may be seen for what it is. A recovered drug addict might acknowledge as much, for the knowledge of evil is a lesson better left unlearned. This is the lesson from which Man is still reeling, the epigraph of his assigned textbook
the Bible, and the horror of history culminating in the Cross of Christ.
Why does God have to be good? Or if there is an afterlife is our definition of good too narrow.
Let me inject a little humor into this discussion, which appears to be needed, given some of the sniping going on here. In the movie, "Love and Death", Diane Keaton's character says to Woody Allen's character, "Of course there's a God. We're made in his image." Woody's response: "You think that if there's a God we're made in his image? Look at me. Do you think God looks like me? Do you think he wears glasses?" Diane: "Not with those frames." (And please, no counterarguments like, "Woody's a child molester!" Whether you believe that or not, it has nothing to do with the joke. The exchange could have been done by any two other comedians and the joke would still be funny.)
Evil is only a problem if you assume that God is all-powerful.
Not necessary, it might be there are two of them fighting each other and we're just a collateral damage.
@@xspotbox4400 it's impossible for two "all-powerful" beings to exist at once and oppose each other. One would just kill the other.
And if the opposer isn't "all-powerful" then you're right back where you were before.
@@SumNutOnU2b So what if one loose, it will just reanimate and start another war in a different form. Can gods have babies?
@@xspotbox4400 again... If that can happen then NOT "all powerful".
See it this way: suppose I'm an all powerful God. Now there's some other godlike being that I disagree with but he's also all powerful.
So, that's the first thing I do? All powerful right? Means I can do anything. So I'll just change the other guy so he's not all powerful anymore.
Now he can't regenerate or reincarnate. I don't even have to kill him, just nerf him forever.
In any battle between multiple "all powerful" beings, whichever one goes first wins.
@@SumNutOnU2b Two can play this game, if other God is also all powerful, he might anticipate that old trick and prepare some defensive voodoo or even deflect spell back to attacker, taking away his powers and charging him instead.
I do agree about your general notion, all games based on some matrix of finite coordinates are decided by who make first move, since matrix means only certain amount of moves are possible and attacker start with one more move than opponent.
Wonder if my idea could be tested, somebody could build two exactly the same and computers designed to play perfect chess.
The "physical world/universe" exists, in large part, due to duality and the interaction and balance of these opposing forces. Light - Dark; North - South, Positive - Negative; Right - Wrong, On - Off, Yin - Yang, 1 - 0, Day - Night, Order - Disorder, Good - Evil, Up - Down, True - False, Male - Female, Hot - Cold, Wave - Particle, etc. is observed to be interwoven within the fabric of the "physical world/universe". Thus, the existence of Good would of necessity require the existence of Evil in the physical world/universe, and vice versa. Moreover, the scientifically confirmed property of duality in the physical world/universe does not preclude the existence of a Prime Observer/Cause.
Well no.
"We" are all prisoners born of "God's" conception, therefore "God" has yet to be born.
Try and think of what happens in the split-second an egg becomes fertilized., now imagine on a god-scale from within higher intra-dimensional levels that "we", along with nature/physical reality, are the byproduct of that process unfolding.
So there's no reason whatsoever to fear or worship., THAT which "we" all are already a part of.
The Shiva Linga is the precursor of the Holy Trinity in describing what is taking place across intra-dimensional levels of existence of a singular being's metamorphosis into..., a God?
Just as the physical universes experience multiple crunches and expansions like a heartbeat., this being "we" are all part of, will eventually reach a stage in its progress where it will withdraw into itself all of the knowledge or data acquired through experiences from those separate individual consciousnesses whose Souls were able to make it through and beyond the life stages of Mineral, Vegetable and Animal.
That's all "we" are., packets of information whose ego-identity becomes sacrificed upon subsumption into the One.
For those seeking..,
Do any of you know what you're really asking for in attaining ultimate liberation?
If you enjoy inhabiting a human or any other form capable of expressing your individual character and Will., you're not ready for mergence.
With that said., Who are my parents?
I think the fuss over liberation, that most Hindu philosophies make, is an exaggerated one.
Desire is the force that drives you. If you desire for liberation, then you dont qualify for it because liberation requires freedom from desires. The quest for liberation is also a desire, and since you haven't broken free from desires, you are disqualified from getting liberated. You will find such loops in most Hindu philosophies.
Sometimes in life, the simplest explanation is the most effective one. So, to the question of who your parents are, the simplest and most logical answer is - the folks who gave birth to you. Everything else is grand hearsay, marketed in the name of religious philosophies. And remember, the ones who came up with those 'philosophies,' didnt do it for free. most made lot of money for it - in the form of either gold coins, or cows.
But then, having said all that, i must admit, you sure are a gorgeous soul...
According to the first speaker (John Hick) free will of the child molester and murderer is much more important to his invisible magical daddy-friend than the suffering of the child.
Christian theology is such an incredible blundering failure.
Not a single sensible, rational thought was expressed by the theists/apologists in this video. To me they sound like stark raving madmen.
It is very worrying that people with such irrational thought patterns are so abundant on this planet.
Disgusting is more like it.
Well said....
@@TheWorldTeacher Take all of your accounts and troll elsewhere.
@@TheWorldTeacher The cat god Bastet is going to dine on you like the mouse you are.
@A.Plosky to be fair, he really just explained it badly. When weighted against an eternity of heaven, a lifetime of suffering is morally equivalent to parents allowing their baby to cry for a while to teach it not to cry just out of boredom - which is a real thing parents have to do at a certain age when babies figure out that whenever they cry mommy comes to pick them up.
All struggles are caused by the rejection of God, it's not God's fault there is evil, evil is mankind's creation, not God's...
I reject god for precisely three reasons... either he is weak and incompetent and cant help u when u need it most, e.g when u lose ur luved ones, or he has no intent to help u even if he is competent, or lastly he doesn't exist. In all these three situations he is not supposed to be worshipped for he is weak and incompetent or he has no intent to help u or he is non-existent. Another part of me says that there is certainly a superpower, coz there are lot of unexplainable things out there... but again i m not ready to call that superpower GOD coz word God has positive connotation only , even if there is a power it is not all-positive, its positive for some, negative and devilish for some... neutral for some. And that too keeps changing with time. I believe whatever science could not answer is attributed to God and whatever we could decipher became Science. All religions are flourishing only for two reasons... Fear and Greed. People worship God coz either they are too scared of him and universe, thinking that something wrong will happen if they stop worshipping God... or there is avarice and greeed... i want this thats why i worship God. Therefore, there is no point in worshipping this superpower even if it exists... coz of its hellish and demonic existence along with some positive part. Evil is a part of God. Both are same. Its like day and night. Both exist at the same time... it only depends on which part u happen to be.
I don't want or need God to take care of Evil for me that's my responsibility using the power of God to keep Satan away .
2- Free will has nothing to do with willing.
Here willing is misunderstood.
In fact, there is no will.
However, not having a free will grants not to be predetermined.
©
Metaphysician philosopher
3-Freedom is not possible while living.
Yet it does not mean there will be an afterlife.
However, afterlife is...
Metaphysician philosopher
God does want the created world to be good, included in that is humanity responsible for good created world. God would rather not have humanity fight evil, even more wants humanity to be responsible for good created world.
If you're unable to find God then you ain't looking with all your heart❤ take nothing as coincidences it's all synchronicity of the mind between you and God then you will see the Holy Spirit will come upon you and guide you to gnosis through a mysical experience.
Once you gain gnosis, then you will know God and yourself.
Also, use the bible to guide you into how you should be living and take it as though its talking about you or God when mentioning places or people because God is omnipresent every place person and beast is God.
I've had profound spiritual experiences where I know it's only a spirit that could possibly do what it did to me.
I won't go into detail's lol😅
In this life, but not all life, is duality or contrast. If the universe were all one color and one color only life would be impossible to navigate. Duality, opposites, animates the universe by contrast making all things visible. Where there is good there is bad, where there is bad there is good. We insist on living in this duality so we have to accept that evil and good co exist. Esoteric religion teaches to take the route of good and don't succumb to evil actions or thoughts. In so doing one will eventually exist in goodness only, paradise.
Evil is not required.
Good and evil. Benefit and detriment. Contracts, deeds, and wills. Evil deeds of LAWYERS. Evil ways of judges judgments of recompense and justice of vengeance. Research 4 corners rule.
@@rubiks6 Jeremiah 23:22
Was this video shot at all in Copenhagen??
The truth is so far away from man because he is not aware of anything about God . Man’s ideas are sick out of ego without any real experience, which soul needs to truly understand what it is.
No evil = no free will.
@@TheWorldTeacher "we have been constantly conditioned by our parents, teachers, and society" I passed at this point.
@@TheWorldTeacher Take all of your accounts and troll elsewhere.
No good = no ice cream
@@TheWorldTeacher
I bet you were "constantly conditioned by our parents, teachers, and society" so you don't have your own taste in music, art, or even clothes. You were conditioned to all of it. Niiiiiiice.
Evil is a potential of free will, but it is not a necessity. Evil is not required.
The whole facts that life exists, means there must be evil, as predator and pray prove it every minute of the day/night.
There is no such thing as good and evil outside of human existence --- the concept is simply a human construct. The universe (or nature) is amoral and indifferent to the plight of all living creatures, including, of course, humans. When a lion kills a zebra for its survival, there is no good or bad in the process, it just is. That's simply nature or evolution at work. We may not like it, but it's the truth, and I'd rather know the truth than believe in some mythical being floating around somewhere in the sky.
Evil is an illusion for still mind.
Answer me this... Does the possibility to sin exist in heaven, if not, where is our free will in the afterlife..? If we have no free will in the eternal heaven, then what are we but everlasting automatons and if that is the vision for a perfect heaven then why not just create that from the start... what is the need for this world of suffering..?
Curious no one refered the book of Job. Seems to me the most Closer to Truth...
Job is Christ.
Or the book of Isaiah.
Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
For every action there's a reaction or god the devil, ying yang and so on
They are not equals.
No There is no challenge between good and evil simply bc individual choices has created a barrier what is certain is that when time runs out good and evil will be separated UNFORTUNATELY FOR THE EVIL CAN NOT EXIST WITHOUT THE BATTERY Darkness will overcome them who rebelled against goodness and it will be void and without form and the darkness will be upon the deep BELIEVE IT OR NOT
Yep god just doesn't make any sense, a leap of faith indeed.
BEING does not make sense????
For theists God apparently can create a world without evil: heaven. If evil on earth was a necessary byproduct with freedom and free will, (and therefor a possibility for true genuine love) than must follow that in heaven there is no freedom, since there is no evil. I don’t know if being ultimately happy but not being free is a problem. Maybe not, you wouldn’t even be aware of lacking freedom. Anyway, the whole idea of freedom, free will soul making, person making and ultimately real love, on earth with the necessary evil in order to become ready for heaven would be a waste of time if you end up anyway in a heaven without evil (and freedom).
If God can create a world without (the possibility of) evil he has so sacrifice the freedom of its inhabitants, and he wouldn’t experience true love of them. The whole earthy enterprise wouldn’t make sense.
If freedom to mankind is utmost important to God, (because only in true freedom genuine love can exist) than an heaven without evil cannot exist, and than heaven isn’t heaven anymore, but another world like ours.
An all good and all powerful God and the existence of evil is logically incompatible. Period.
Damn! That's an amazing argument; good job! There is also the other angle that there is no evidence for free will, and a mountain of evidence pilling up against it. Also the other other angle that pre zoroaster there was no concept of good and evil there was just things that happened and depending on your perspective actions were right or mistaken. The difference here is hard for us to understand because our world is soaked in zoroasters thinking. As an example it would be mistaken to hurt the pride of a powerful person or to anger a hive of bees. Or it could be right to kill your enemies or help your friend win an election.
"I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."
(Isaiah 45:7)
Thank I've never noticed that one before
@@lukedavis6711
It's interesting that he creates darkness.
Darkness is a bit like atheism. It's not a thing in itself. It's the lack of a thing.
I think the human mind knows enough and it seems like an excuse when they say the human mind cannot comprehend God's reason for evil. Free will doesn't explain all the evil that exists. What is the point of God or even law enforcement if they don't intervene. Human beings understand the purpose of pain and suffering in terms of evolution, and wars are sometimes considered necessary evil etc. But what about all the unnecessary evil that exists?
Emotional energy farm and we make the best emotional loosh. Not a school
God created a system based on faith and sin. Every human deviation spirytal or non spirytusl needs compensation. Evil is needed and acts as a equalizer. Failures has to be improved.
What free will does a 3 year old child killed by a bomb have? It seems to me only the person pulling the bomb release has free will.
That which does not exist cannot face up to anything
If God is a person as the Christians say, He probably embodies absolute goodness and absolute evil as well. God may be love but that might not be all he is. To banish someone to a lake of fire forever is not a loving act.
The "lake of fire" of Revelation 20 are where "death and hell" are destroyed. God is good. No evil required.
The greatest evil is human being, we make our planet hell, when u think of hell dont look beyond our planet, everything and everyone suffering
I belive in God, all the evidence points; in addition to explanations that we hear from Catholic, or other denominations of Christianity as well as other Abrahamic or non-Abrahamic religious figures that moral and natural evil and gives us endurance, makes us to become, etc, etc. stronger; is beyond my understanding, The only explanation remains for an example when a child dies at early age or a person who is a good person, Possesses good morale and helps others and puts everyone's likelihood ahead , and loves thy neighbor, regardless of the race, religion, age et cetera et cetera who is a childhood end up with a horrible disease and subject to the abuse of Some healthcare worker (as a subset of other healthcare workers are to do their job properly), Yet a person such as Charles Manson Stalin, Ediee Amin, etc have much painless departures!
All it boils down to the fact we are entangled between God and evil, and we are the victim of the historical battle between the two While all this extra explanations are just either excuses or just to make up for the silence that's remaining in the universe from the The supreme! so it's a random as to how we die! Secondly how come the creator did not come up with the Much more clearer and direct language with respect to religious books such as Bible, Torah and Quran? Why do we have to go back-and-forth can forth and torment ourselves about who and what denomination believes in what? and how they interpret these books? Just based on a hunch? Furthermore it results in more evil ( secondary evil)more anxiety, depression, additional suffering for the ones who remain behind e.g. death of the loved one, like my beloved wife of 40 years.
As we (the families) are left behind with no communication, no sign or indications of their existence and nowhere to look for an answer!
Cruelty at its Maximum!🥺😥
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”
- Epicurus
Did you mean impotent in your first line?
Your constrain upon superlatives negate their meaning.
I was about to post this. Very good argument
This is what I’ve learned evil is there because we are being tested. This life is a testing facility to build character and we must always strive to pass and do good or we will fail
Shivercanada, Did god tell you that or are you just making it up because it sounds good
Testing people before they have had the opportunity to learn seems rather unjust. Especially as the Abrahamic god only gives you one shot and does not even guarantee that you will get a copy of the manual that you will be tested against. He even allows other competing manuals filled with lies to continue to exist.
If that is the case then i would like to get tested by taking birth in a billoinaire's house in some western country as a male and live up to 90 years of age without any physical weaknesses or ever contract any life threatening diseases like cancer ,Hiv , diabetes and others etc. How about that.
I've thought about this and the "tested" hypothesis only works if you do not insist on God being maximally loving or empathetic. In fact, you almost have to assume that God must be sociopathic.
This makes sense though. Since God didn't have parents to teach him right and wrong, so he had to work it out for himself. If you assume (as most religions assert) that he values good behaviour and empathy, that doesn't presume that he feels empathy himself. Thus the Earth would be like a big factory for him. It creates billions of souls and allows them to mature. Then he siphons off the good ones and drops the rest back into the raw materials bin.
It's harsh, but after thought it's the only intellectually consistent explanation I've been able to come up with that works with the "test" assertion.
That is one of the more evil thoughts that comes out of simple-minded theology. If god makes innocents suffer for the sake of testing, then god is a torturer. For instance:
" I'm going to give your child cancer. Your child will suffer for years. Let's see how you pass this test."
That is evil.
When God finished creating the world, He declared everything good. He didn't say perfect because only God himself is perfect. Any created thing cannot be perfect by definition. So this created world is not perfect and both good and evil can exist together in it. Existence of evil therefore does not disprove the existence of a all powerful, all knowing and all good God. However that is not to be taken as God creating evil but just that evil is an imperfection in an imperfect world. By the way any discussion of good and evil requires an objective way to determine what is good and God is that perfect good that form the basis of the discussion. Without God there is no basis at all to discuss good or evil.
I’m a bit disappointed with this episode, since it never tries to define evil and mostly accepts it to mean harmfulness or calamity. But is evil really simply: “I didn’t like this happening to me!” I would rather believe it means: “This SHOULD NOT happen, ever, to anyone.” But as soon as you start talking about what should happen, you’re imposing a standard. And how do you impose a standard on the entire universe? You either impose it from inside - and have a standard that refers to itself and thus can’t be neutral, or from outside - and have God. I wish that RLK would have addressed that.
I agree and was thinking the same thing. Is a hurricane evil because it exist or because people died?
Is a hurricane that kills no one evil?
Is an earthquake in Antarctica with no death evil?
Evil is actually never defined.
Well put
Good is more abundant in the universe than evil, but God allowed evil to exist in the physical realm. Evil cannot exist in the higher realms because it is not ‘aware’ enough to exist in the realms of higher ‘awareness.’
Where is evil in the universe. The universe is a big place.
Jeff Amos just general speaking of mind
Jeff Amos just my opinion.
"Wilt thou set thine eyes on that which is not?" (Proverbs 23) Evil is that which is not, a privation of good.
In our universes, there can only be possible things. No real magic that really works. Do your good work here, because you do not even carry your brain with you.
Nature is much more able and capable than magic. Magic is illusory created for the purpose of captivating, fooling, and tricking people, and nothing is real. It's apples and oranges. But I think people take the concept of magic and apply it to forces that aren't known which are responsible for giving rise to human beings and all of life. Nature then is capable of that which isn't conceived as of yet and may never be.
Every thing is just fine,
there is the pleasant good, and the un-pleasant good,
the un-pleasant good, is just to learn and know what is good, and what is not.
Life is Not and punish-camp, We only suffer the very minimum, when We learn by experience, and cant do evil actions by heath, then We are protected, so by development We will surely come to know.
We are in the end of Animal Kingdom, still tail-bone-people, this is the culmination of suffering,
the growing Intelligence in the developed Animals, made us devil-minded, equipment of mass-destruction and alike.
Soon in a greater perspective, We will be Real Human Beings, all kinds of evil and sufferings will be past. this was just a short chapter in our actual developing-circuit, and then We continiue our Eternal journey. Every developing-circuit have a developing-zone equal to the animal kingdom. (Gravity-Beings) The so'called theodice-problem, by the theologists.
Earthquakes and droughts are not evil , they are just natural problems , first old guy just has to justify his career
Splifany.
If God can't face up to evil, there will be riots in Heaven.
And if He can, there will be riots in Hell. Paradox!
The reason for natural tragedy is because in a FINITE universe there are limitations there for natural disaster ect is side effect cause we can't b eternal until next phase of consciousness is complete unlimited.
What? How can a drought or earthquake be evil? That’s the way the Earth works, natural processes.
If you presuppose an Abrahamic God, natural processes become morally loaded, since an all powerful God that cares about human life could effortlessly prevent such things. Parsimony is on the side of the athiest; the universe is indifferent and entropic, no further explanation required.
@@Robinsonero you sound like you think those are unexplainable. The earth has to move to settle into where equilibrium dictates. And famines are not random either, if the land is not properly taken care of, or locations of water & mountains create a desert naturally, you can't get rid of the famine without creating problems elsewhere.
You do realize the universe is not a living thing so it has no free will like humans which means its being controlled and maintained by god so natural disasters are harmful to humans well in your view to god thats some unintended consequences
@@skyisthelimitreadyornotfor2 they're certainly explicable scientifically, but if you believe in the god of the Moses you'd have to explain them morally as well. If not, you don't need a normative explanation, just a material one.
@@rubiks6 I am an atheist and believe I have but one life to live and time is precious. I have not heard an argument for overcoming the problem of evil from minds much greater than mine that have read the bible so I will NOT waste what limited time I do have by reading the bible. No argument for the existence of a god has changed my mind and reading the bible will not change it either. You either believe or you don't.
All this time and the Abrahamic religions have never offered a response to these questions asked a long time ago:
Is god willing to stop evil but unable?
Then he is not powerful.
Is he able but unwilling?
Then he is not good.
Is he both willing and able?
Then there can be no evil.
Is he neither willing nor able?
Then why call him god?
Epicurus (300 BCE)
The answer to your question is a resounding NO.
@@dylzp May god have mercy on your everlasting soul.
@@dylzp Imagine you are the only all good person in entire universe. Where would you hide, what do you eat, how would you protect your perfect heaven?
Errrr....... there are libraries upon libraries of Abrahamic "responses to these questions asked a long time"
@@andrewferg8737 There are no gods, there is lust for power.
@@babyl-on9761 It is logically incongruous to posit Being to "not be".