Old Concept2 rower vs New Concept2 - Who wins?
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- I'm donating my old Rowing Machine to my local school. But before I do, I want to see if there's any difference in performance.
I've had my grey Concept2 Rowing Machine for almost 9 years. It's done over 15 Million metres, and has served me well.
My new, black Concept 2 Rowing Machine has only done 50,000 metres, and so is effectively brand new.
The only real difference between the two though is the tension of the shock cord (how much of a pull the handle has, wanting to go back into place).
So - with this in mind, I wanted to do a performance test to compare old vs new, to see if it made a difference...
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I've been asked a few times about the best way to support what I'm doing. Honestly, the best way is just to watch and subscribe using this link: / @rowalong )
More views lead to more views - and I'm really just interested in getting more people on board to RowAlong with. (Make sure to click the notification bell to be alerted when I upload new workouts)
That said, I know that there are some people who want to show their support financially, and as much as I've shied away from giving out links to this before - I've been advised to at least provide the links - to stop someone spoofing me!! So....
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This workout is provided as usual WITHOUT MUSIC. If you want music, why not load up another RUclips tab, or maybe Soundcloud and pick your own tunes. As always, follow me for stroke rate. And I'll keep you company for the row with training tips, technique tips, and my usual general waffle.
For more information about drag factor, the plans and what this is all about, head to www.rowalong.com For more about indoor rowing in general, go to www.indoorrowinginfo.com
See you in the next video.
ℹℹℹℹℹℹ - 2K training paces are based on your current best performance to row 2000m. Set your monitor to 2000m and row it as fast as you can. When you're finished either look at the memory screen for that row, and note the Average /500m pace - or just divide your time by 4 to find that out.
For instance - if you rowed your 2000m in 8:20 - the average pace for 500m is 2:05. It doesn't matter if you started at 1:50 and then slowed down to 2:20 by the end - your average across the whole row is 2:05.
So when I give a pace guide saying "2K + 18 seconds" - that means that you take your 2K time, and add 18 seconds to it (in the above example, 2:05 + 18 = 2:23 pace.) Just be sure to set your monitor so it displays your /500m pace so you can stay on target.
Every time you think you're getting faster, rather than just arbitrarily changing the pace guide - do another 2000m test to find your current 2K average time - and then work from that. ℹℹℹℹℹℹ
==================What I use==================
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amzn.to/3cIjma7 Concept 2 Rowing Machine
amzn.to/3tjtV96 Polar H7 Heart Rate Sensor
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*for info, RowAlong used to be PDP - but the name was changed to RowAlong in 2020. 🔴 DISCLAIMER 🔴
Before starting any new fitness regimen, it's important to consult with your healthcare provider to ensure it's appropriate for you. Do not begin this row or program if advised against by your healthcare professional. Participation in any exercises or information provided on this channel, including videos or comments, is at your own risk. John at RowAlong will not be liable for any harm, injury, or damage resulting from this information.
![The COMPLETE Guide to the Concept 2 Monitor [EVERYTHING TO KNOW]](/img/1.gif)
Totally air tight science….
Actually more helpful than you may realize. This says a lot about how robust and consistent these machines are.
I'm glad it was more than just a bit of fluff then!
Wow that impressive! I’m buying a used C2 this morning and this confirms the build quality.
Those things are wonderful nice to see that they hold up over a lengthy period of time. And what an incredible gift to receive. Your child's high school is quite fortunate. Cheers!
They really do last for years and years!! And the school was just the right thing at the right time. It’s nice to be able to do something with the (small) income I get from Google Ads on the videos.
I just picked one of these older models up with only35k meters and 24 workouts and it feels brand new and look forward to using to for a long time to come.
Brilliant :-). Although bang goes all my excuses for slow pace relating to my ancient machine 😂😂
Haaha!!
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I stumbled on this and found it very interesting. I echo a comment below......... it really does demonstrate the how bullet-proof these wonderful machines are!
Yup, they’ll last forever with just a bit of oil and a few parts replaced when needed. Glad you found it interesting.
My Concept 2 has about 15 million meters right now. Just received new shock cord and rollers for the seat. Have had to replace a few bolts over the years that have rusted thru because I sweat a ridiculous amount. But it is amazing how tough these machines are and how easy they are to repair/maintain and the replacement parts are relatively cheap.
I think that's the reason they've been so dominant. They're built to last anyway - but even when they do break, they're really easy to get up and running again.
That is consistency, really good to know.
It’s amazing to see that even 10 years on, the older machine still performs as well.
Well quite frankly I am exhausted watching you...... here I am sitting on my fat bottom feeling the need to have a lie down now ! You are a joy to watch !
I'm really pleased you enjoyed this. I put in enough effort for both of us!! ;-)
I have an old concept 2 LOVE IT ...yes, I've changed the chain, the cord, the seat, the foot pedals rest, and i got a newer control box....so yeah I go a newer C2...still would chain this for a NEW one I really enjoy my work outs...
Quite the endorsement for the quality of the machine in terms of consistent performance!
I know! You can see the quite evident surprise in my reaction!
We’ll done mate! I’ve been rowing the water rower for nearly 3 years and have been rowing along with just long. I’m looking forward to your water rower sessions as well as your analysis. I also started rowing on the C2 at my gym for 3yrs. until Covid.
I’ve been following you and enjoying your style of training
Thanks. It's an interesting machine to use. So far, not to give anything away, I'm not a fan of the seat - and there's a weird 'kink' to the stroke. But I did enjoy my first session on it. And it's good to know that the Concept2 workouts have still been ok for you when you've been on the Water Rower.
Says a lot about the C2s. RowAlong Treasure Hunt!
I've got a gently used Model C that I've upgraded most of the parts in. It's effectively the same as a newer model except the PM3. However I haven't touched the bungee cord. I appreciate the demonstration of what to look for.
I've got the "C" as well; the maintenance of the fan housing on the "C" is a pain compared to the "D" and later models, where the design was changed to a "buckle and belt" system, otherwise everything else is much the same. I got a PM5 on mine and have replaced many other parts (including the wooden seat, seat bearings and handle) since they are so cheap, directly from Concept 2.
I enjoyed the scientific aspect, but just watching you row 100m (twice) was even more valuable. And now I know that you don't need a 175 DF to row a sprint. Did you set your foot plates up a notch? Thanks for posting this!
Ah! I'm really pleased this helped. (Spoiler alert, I'm going to make another video looking at DF and these sprints). And no, footplate was set to where it's always set (3 holes showing when I'm in socks)
Nice comparison. I wonder how my old Model B compares to the new RowErg?
To be honest, I don't think there will be much difference. They seem to have found a great forumla to keep them all pretty much even.
I am buying a 'salvage' C2 mod C (no monitor, chain skips occasionally) from a university AD for a song. A new PM5, perhaps a new shock cord, and this thorobred will be good for another few 10s of million kMs.
Yup. Just be patient, and buy the right tools, and it'll be a smooth upgrade. I replaced the sprocket on 4 machines without using their proper tool - and trust me, it's really hard work without it!!
It is very easy to adjust the bungee 😉
Very cool. I love my Concept2 RowErg. Best exercise machine on the planet. I hate machines and this is one is the lone exception.
When you fall in love with it, you fall hard. I know I did.
@@rowalong Love it so much that I just sold my Stages SC3 spin bike. Guy picks it up on Wednesday. It's perfect on its own - or paired with a weight training session. I agree.
I have the hydrow and considering to swap but still torn because of the noise factor. Like to watch video content while rowing so makes more sense to keep the hydrow. Then, after reading the comments about the low maintenance, it now got me thinking about hydrow repairs might be more costly.
@@ddkim619 Yeah - C2 is truly the best. Low maintenance - and it delivers plenty. Noise is really the only issue - but it's like a fan in the background away from the unit.
@Theodore Boosalis fan kicking up dust is another issue hmmm
Verifies they have a great thing going.
How many meters were you at approximately when you replaced the bungees? Was there an indication they were worn out?
I got to about 8 million and replaced it - and that was after the World Champs in 2017 when I really noticed how slack is felt compared to the new machines we were racing on. I bought this machine second hand from someone else - and I think they'd put about 4 million on there. So when you get to 10 million, just think about how it feels. I wouldn't change it unless you really need/want to though.
This is a known problem when you have erg indoor rowing championships like CRASH B’s or now official world rowing indoor rowing champs. People practice on ergs that have been used for some times. When they test, the testing is usually done on brand new machines.
The even organizers, and it’s been tradition, but new ergs for the event which are later being sold to the public.
Yes. I think even though in this test it doesn't make a difference, in a longer event, how tight the shock cord is may make a difference. There's an element of more power needed to stretch it in the first place (some of which is returned in terms of pulling to the front of the machine, but by no means a 1:1 equation) but more than that, I think there's a technique improvement on a tighter shock cord, as the pulling sensation of the cord as it recovers promotes a quicker return and better posture (IMHO).
@@rowalong I've been rowing now for 23 years (a glimpse into my experience). Also, if I understood correctly, you put all (a few) new parts on the old erg. Now, let's take a club erg. The mileage and abuse will be exponentially higher, including maintenance probably not being on par. Especially if you are in a program, like was, with some elite athletes cranking numbers that are hard to wrap your head around. To give you a perspective, I have friends who would do steady-state 1hr+ long pieces at 1:45. It would be interesting to measure wear on those old worn machines.
Damn.. what a concept2 !!
Both of them are lovely. It'll be sad to give the old one away, but I'm really pleased i'm able to support the local school
doesn't really seems so from the video but did they make the new model less loud or still abt the same? bit worried to get this machine seen most of the time i will train i will have my 4 year old son sleeping in next room..do you think it's too loud and i should go for a different machine like water ones?
They're all still just as loud as each other for Concept2. Now, as much as I don't like promoting other channels, Austin from Training Tall made a video about how loud machines are. So you may want to check this out: ruclips.net/video/yrRn65owFrA/видео.html - The C2 is about 10dB louder than a water rower. Which is quite considerable. But, it's also a more contstant 'white noise' - whereas the water rower is a bit more of a sharp transient.
As far as sleeping kids, I had a newborn in the cot next to me (10 years ago) who just slept right through even my toughest 2K attempts on my C2!
@@rowalong thanks a lot mate, that's helpful
Maybe, if the maximum value for drag factor on both machines was limited to 17.6 and as such if it were higher on one of them, the measurement would be off the scale and display to 17.6 ;-) I'm just saying, maybe.
What about the noise difference between them ?
Between these two? None. The model C and B are a little louder.
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yes I did!!!
Great vid 🙂
Thankyou.
The power required to stretch the elastic cord is not measured by the PM. Therefore, with a weaker elastic cord more of the user's total power output will be delivered to the flywheel resulting in a faster time displayed by the PM. In competitions a weaker elastic cord is an advantage. Mr. Rowalong told me, prior to making this video that he believes there is parity between all C2 rowers, regardless of bungee cord strength. So he is biased in conducting this test.
He told me he went all out on both the new and old machine. Maybe. But the PM screens are right in front of him, and he gets the times that support his bias. Should we be surprised? He should have rowed blindfolded, with an assistant to call out when the target distance was reached. Also, what is the rush? The test on both machines should have been done when he was completely fresh and rested. Instead, he goes all out on the new machine, waits 2 minutes, then gets on the old machine. "Definitely feels looser" he says. He would still be slightly fatigued from his effort on the new machine, but since the old machine is 'looser' he manages to match his new machine time and offer this as support for his argument that all C2 rowers are equivalent. The order of the test, new machine then old machine; no blindfold; his lingering fatigue after a 2 minute break - these all favour his personal bias. Further, at high wattage output by the user, differences in elastic cord strength are a smaller proportion of the total power and over the short 100 M distance of the test will have little effect. It should havebeen a 2K distance test, because at lower wattage rowing for a 2 k distance, the difference in elastic cord strength is a greater proportion of the total power, and the greater distance enables the time differences to accumulate. That is why many, many users have reported 5 to 15 second differences in their times on new vs old machines. The short 100 M, high wattage test here is also a choice that favours his personal bias, in violation of physics, that all machines, regardless of bungee cord strength are equivalent. This video does no service to C2 rower users. It helps to keep everyone asleep, and ignorant of this design defect. Concept 2 probably loves it.
thanx very much this has been driving me bonkers how l could smoke a cigar at 150 pace for ever on my old machine yet my new model D l struggle to get to 2 per 500m. l saw CAM BUCHAN pull his chain and the monitor immediately gave one pull a time of 151 l thought that's bollox on a stationary machine
@@MayumiSakamoto-py6em Everyone is in denial about equivalence between old and new machines. This video does no service to C2 users. C2 could fix this problem by installing a force sensor at the point of connection between the shock cord and the frame, with a cable to communicate that data to the PM. With appropriate programming the force to stretch the elastic cord would be taken into account in the PM displays of distance/time. (C2 already uses an extra sensor on the BikeErg - an angle sensor on the damper lever that communicates the damper setting to the PM - necessary on the BikeErg because on the Rowerg the PM recalibrates DF on the recovery but on the BikeErg there is no drive/recovery. A similar strategy could be used with respect to the elastic cord). The question of equivalence between machines would then be put to rest. But why should C2 bother to correct this problem? They are selling RowErgs as fast as they can build them, and videos like this perpetuate the myth of equivalence between old and new machines.
Both are a model D so I would not expect a lot of differences
No, I didn't really expect a huge difference either. I kinda made this to try to help the people who blame an old machine, or a tight bungee. I suppose I should really at least have compared a D and a C - or even better, a D and a B.
That bungee was certainly looking looser on that second row.
Flapping around like a ribbon in a hurricane!!
Logically both should perform the same if on identical drag factors - the only noticeable change on an well used C2 should be a bit of slack on the chain on the recovery at higher rates - worth mentioning that you remove the flywheel cover once a year and give the fan a good dusting using a paint brush whilst vacuuming - hey presto - the drag factor is back to where it once was 🥳
Yeah; as much as I was surprised by the actual result, I figured it would be close to that. The question is whether a 10km row would feel tougher on the tighter bungee.
I’m embroiled in quite an amusing argument with a guy on Facebook about this.
Hi John,
The only true resistance on an ergo as we know is the drag factor. All a tight cord is doing is to assist the recovery keeping it a little sharper. It’s what you’re used to is the bottom line, how much effort you put in ( a bad workman always blames his tools 😆)
I have a home-used c2, I finally took apart the fanwheel and cleaned it after about 10 years and was surprised at how clean it was. I've done a few million meters, and it stays in carpeted rooms, where I figured vacuums would have stirred up some dust. So I guess my takeaway is that in a standard home setting, it stays pretty clean.
makes a good argument for buying used
Precisely. Apart from liking shiny new stuff, there's no real reason to buy new. And actually, the handle on the new one has a bit of a rough coating on it compared to the old one. I've been getting blisters for the first time in years!
@@rowalong you could have swapped the handles before donating the old one...I have that same old one. Bought mine around 2010 or 2011.
Brand new rowerg pm5 for $1110 with ship/tax or used pm3 with 1.5 million meters for $700 🤔
Depends how much you’d want to use apps etc and how much a PM5 would cost to buy where you are. Shouldn’t be more than $200 - and 1.5Mm is practically new!!
I would love to see you review the rowerg dynamic
I would too! The dynamic and slides are two things I want to cover. I just need to find them to use them.
👍
There is not much to improve between these 2 models, except different display maybe, hence same results 🙂
Yeah, that's what I knew the outcome would be. But there are a LOT of people who blame the machine when they go faster / slower, so I wanted to make this to try to show that it really doesn't make a difference. Both had a PM5 monitor, the only real difference was 15 million metres of wear on one of them vs 70,000m.
@@rowalong Concept2 from model C is like Volvo, the more milage the younger.
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How many times did he mention that he donated this machine to a kid's school.
I've seen people donate entire buildings to causes and not mention it this many times lol
You must have rower for an ivy
ahhhhh i think a 500 would of been better than a 100.....lololololl
Not that fast
Correct. But post covid; I’ll take 17.6. What’s your time?
@@rowalong I meant my time is not that fast 🤪🤪🤪
@@rowalong you asked at the end "how fast is your time!" My response "not that fast" 😉
Haha!! Sorry, I thought you were having a go at me for only hitting 17.6. Apologies for the snarky reply.
@@rowalong none required, I realise it could be taken that way. My fault. 😉
Most EXR. ErgZone and ErgData. BR. Rolf😊
Good choice! EXR is an amazing app, and I really hope it takes off and becomes the proper "Zwift for Rowing".
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