Is Frame Generation the biggest scam of the decade?
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- Talking all things frame gen...
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Is Frame Generation the biggest scam of the decade?
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It's not necessarily a scam, but it is definitely not nearly as useful as Nvidia and AMD would have us believe. I personally think that it will be a net negative feature as time goes on because Nvidia, AMD, and game developers will lean more and more on it instead of putting development into increased rasterization performance and optimization. Nvidia also never mentions the fact that it is 100% useless for all the hugely popular esports titles. I am saying this as a 4070 owner too, so I'm not saying this just because I'm salty about not being able to use the feature.
The placebo effect is a very powerful thing.
Guaranteed!
Fake FPS. Higher latency...
Warzone added fsr 3.0 200 fps feels like 60 with frame gen LOL
Yes, yes it is.
nope
Nooopoo!!!! (Yes it is)
Yes it is. It's pointless with a high input framerate, and it's useless with a low one.
I think the optimal window is just too small for it IMO. You obviously won't use it in competitive games due to the latency penalty but even in slower single player games it feels like it works the best if you have around 60-80 FPS. Above that it won't feel like a huge uplift and below that latency and image stability can become a problem.
it literally doesn't. My 4070 Ti can run pathtraced CP2077 with FG at 75 minimal FPS so it gives us around 45 actual frames and it feels good. Like seriously. People are just repeating shit some youtuber said.
@@jedenzet man, you don't have any idea what' "feels good" is, do you? Good FPS is 120-140, real fps, not FG nonsense. From latency perspective 75 frame degenerated "fps" isn't even 45, its 37.5 real fps, it's a completely unplayable disaster. I would vomit is was forced to play cp77 with such fps, it's completely unplayable. I understand you people bought overpriced nvidia crap and you're trying to justify it, but please, stop it, don't spread this nonsense, 37 fps is nothing near "feels good" fps, please don't mislead other people who doesn't understand it yet.
@@detrizor7030have you actually tried playing with it
@@undeadtomatoes of course. I've even measured it for objective comparison. On average, 100-140 real fps (without FG) is about 20-25 ms system latency, 100-140 FG "fps" is about 45-50 ms. It's more than twice the difference, it's huge. The same logic works for any other fps level, 70, 270, whatever.
@detrizor7030 idk what to tell you then. If you think the input lag is dealbreaker that's your opinion, but for me it's barely noticeable and more than worth it in exchange for a much smoother experience
It sure is. Courtesy to Nvidia.
You can buy fps at 5 bucks
Lossless scaling software
The only game i have played with fg is Alan wake 2 and i legit can't tell the difference maybe its cuz Alan wake is a dark moody game
I tried it in warzone and yes it really is
while I can't quite call it a "scam" per se, I can comfortably say it yields gimmicky results. I definitely can't call it a "feature", especially one to pay extra for.
Yet Nvidia shills are completely deludes lmaoo they really think FG feels like native frames smh just because the numbers is higher
I am going to put my tinfoil hat and put a conspiracy theory here:
What if companies approached AMD and NVIDIA stating that they need to increase the volume of games produced per year. They already got rid of things like debugging, delivering an incomplete mess almost every time just to "keep on schedule".
If you can see that, then makes sense that optimizing an engine is something that takes way too much time, so, AMD and NVidia came with alternatives to boost FPS (at the cost of quality) with technologies like FSR, DLSS and frame generation, so that the gaming companies can just focus on throwing polygons and textures in a game engine and don't bother much with the results later.
Ngl thought of a similar thing aswell
yes that's basically what RT and upscaling/framegen is
Yes, it's a gimmicky marketing scam that they use so they can try to justify cutting corners on the hardware of the GPU and still charge absurd prices for it. When I buy a GPU, I am paying for the hardware, not the software.
Yes you are paying for the hardware anyways, because it uses hardware (GPU) for process frame generation, so if its make your gameplay smoother, why do you even bother about how it achieves this fps counter? Personally I cant see much artifacts or anything else while playing cp2077 or hogwarts legacy using FG (yes its not perfect, but when you play and not trying to find artifacts its perfectly fine). So my point is - you buying gpu that provdes you smooth frames anyways, so whats the complaint? They could just didn't tell you about FG at all and made it for example like native gpu render under the hood, and you wouldn't even knew how it works. I bet you wouldn't complain then:)
@@react1066FG interpolates an artificial frame between two existing frames, which are the previous frame and the upcoming frame. The problem with that is latency, and sometimes it can cause artefacts such as ghosting. Those software frames that FG generates are shit. They will never be as good as real frames. Like I said, Nvidia and AMD use this to try and justify cutting corners on the hardware. I don't understand why people defend Nvidia and AMD for this shit. It's fucking pathetic. For those who defend Nvidia and AMD for this, they are very likely fanboys, and they are killing PC gaming because they are ok with being ripped off like fucking idiots, which negatively impacts the entire gaming PC industry.
@@react1066 "They could just didn't tell you about FG at all and made it for example like native gpu render under the hood, and you wouldn't even knew how it works" - do you have the slightest idea on how game engines work? Obviously not. I'm actually a game developer, programmer, and i can tell you about it.
The main reason to increase FPS - to get lower input latency, latency is strongly tied with FPS. And FG doesn't actually increase FPS, it doesn't make latency any lower, only real FPS increase can do this. FPS is not a number of some pictures sent from GPU to display in one minute, FPS is a number of game engine updates, which consists of 3 phases (simply told) - update of game world (core logic, objects, input from player and etc.), CPU render and GPU render. FG doesn't increase this FPS, it only emulates the last phase, producing just an interpolated image, which is not connected to any game logic at all, it is NOT A GAME FRAME. But nvidia claims that FG increases exactly FPS - it's a lie, and it's a disgusting, terrible lie, because it gives game devs excuse to make horriblly optimized games. I'm shocked such thing even exists, and i'm even more shocked that SO many people are seriously defending it. Man, this world is seriously messed up...
@@detrizor7030 thanks for explaining it
I understand what you are trying to say , but anyways, from a common gamer perspective its getting smoother anyway, and you cant deny that, if you ever tried to fg on and after that turning it off and then compare
@@react1066 "its getting smoother anyway" - it's getting just visually smoother, it isn't getting smoother controlling-wise. Of course i've tried FG, i'm actually playing with it in the game i'm developing (it's poorly optimized at this moment, so no other choise), but it's a game about cars, i control them them by steering wheel and rarely use mouse, and i always have at least 60 real fps. With this conditions FG is somewhat viable. But if we're talking about some first person shooter, like CP2077, it's a terrible idea to enable FG if you don't have at LEAST 100-120 real fps, it's better to just lower settings and use upscaling to get actual FPS, it will be MUCH better than just visual smoothness of interpolated pseudo-frames. Or if you can't get real 100+ fps, then just don't play this game right now, play some others and return to this when you get decent PC) i've done exactly that - when i had too weak hardware, which couldn't deliver 120+ fps, i just wasn't starting playing CP2077, now i've upgraded and can do it the way i can actually enjoy the game, not pretending that i enjoy it.
Bruh the 3080ti is a gtx 1080 with frame gen
with frame gen your getting fake frames
"with frame gen your getting fake frames" are those "fake frames" as you called them good if you have a 144hz monitor and get 60 fpss on Warzone without it and with it you get 120 fpss?, would it give you an advantage on that case?
it is a scam because it adds input lag rather than removing it. Ok the FPS is artificial, who cares. The frames generated lower performance rather than enhance it.
It is. Like a woman in makeup.
Than you don't suppose to use computer
go back to your old reality grass instead of playing games.
🤔Does Makeup make women look a Blurry Mess ???
@@shaneeslick99% of them yes.
@@shaneeslick Maybe, but not real for sure.
Absolutely not! Even if it doesn’t feel like a higher frame-rate to some it smooths out the camera motion in games and makes them much sharper and a more fluid experience, you basically see zero camera stutter. I don’t know how free performance could even be considered a scam.
As far as it is useful for you, that's totally fine. Played cyberpunk 2077 + phantom liberty for over 50 hours with path tracing, dlss Q and FG and it's being a good experience so far
Honestly i would rather have 60 fps and not use upscaling. In helldivers 2 i can get almost a stable 100fps with upscaling, but i can get stable 60fps without
Upscaling is already ehh to me but alright as it doesnt introduce latency but frame gen is just fake frames and extra input latency
@@worldwar208 I've always found frame gen wired. You need at least 60fps before you turn it on to have a good time, I genuinely think the game is secretly running at 60fps and just using fsr or dlss to false report.
Every game feels like shyt after I turn on frame gen. The whole game feels slower
Oh boy...
Hey can we not do these clickbait titles please? Thanks
Not far, but i'd say Intel 14th gen is the biggest scam of the decade so far.
noone forces you to buy it
Yes it is, it’s just a gimmick. Welcome to the age of blurry muddled resolutions and sterile AI-ish images. I will take jagged edges and true internal resolution on a display , with subtle AA, over all this gimmick any day. The focus should be on the art, not on technical gimmicks. What’s even the point of all this when most games these days are generic trash lol
It depends.
Its just frame interpolation.
SVP (smooth video project) that converts video to 60-120fps in realtime is the same thing and it runs on phones!
Its a scam instead of using unreal 5+ to take advantage of the hardware the devs continue to use outdated engines then inject frame interpolation to give you the illusion that the super high tech card is running an old engine at higher speeds when all they can do is use unreal 5
FSR is amazing
For those who only play online games, like fortnite, apex legends, overwatch/paladins etc. the 4000 series has been a total scam.
Not only for them, but for every gamer who has the slightest idea how games work, and that FG doesn't actually makes any more FPS, but really even makes it less. FPS is not the count of pictures sent to monitor, FPS is input latency, and FG makes it worse, while being advertised for making it better. It's a total scam for all non-shit-eating gamers, and it's a very dangerous path to go for gaming industry. This path will lead it to a total garbage with completely unoptimised shitty games, which can't give playable fps with any hardware on any settings. It's very, very sad.
No, it's a feature that can be used to help perceptual smoothness which is a major factor in how a game feels to a player.
It, like DLSS-SR/FSR2, has bounds where it works optimally. FSR Ultra Performance is extremely poor, especially at
"perceptual smoothness which is a major factor in how a game feels to a player." - visual smoothness is useless if you have big input lag. Input lag IS a major factor of gameplay comfort in any game with active mouse camera rotation. And frame degeneration makes input even worse than it is without it. It's just goddamn madness to use FG when you have less than optimal real FPS. And optimal real fps is around 140 for shooters, around 100 for some actions like witcher or elden ring, and on 60 game is playable if you don't use mouse in it at all, or rarely do it, like in racing.
Ehhh = Time Will tell the Story Here ! i Think its Too early to make a concious Decision whether it is the Path to take or Not . I`m SURE there WILL Be Something BETTER come along " in Time " .
The idea of frame generation and upscaling will absolutely be a part of the future of AAA gaming. Dlss 3 FG or fsr3 or fmf is just not it yet.
Generating frames and upscaling is absolutely going to be a part of future AAA games. So far.. its a bust.
yes
I used FG in NFS Unbound and I was quite impressed. I definitely preferred having it as opposed to not having it.
Racing games are one of a few situations where FG makes at least some sense, sure. But in literally any game with mouse camera controlling it's a completely usless crap, and actually a scam, as it doesn't give you any more FPS, because FPS are not just pictures passed to monitor, they're engine updates, and FG doesn't increase the number of them, it even decreases it.
@@detrizor7030 that might be true
@@detrizor7030 true, i dont use FG anymore
New technology always replace some element in life as always.
Either you have to adapted or end up forgotton.
I Totally AGREE !
Despite Moore's Law slowing down and silicon wafers becoming more expensive, I appreciate Nvidia's investment in R&D to create alternative solutions like Frame Generation, which AMD is also aware and developing their own version. If you set aside the political ideology against these companies, I believe that these features are good and innovative but the pricing is just bad especially where on this day, these features are still unrefined, the reason why it is not yet widely acceptable.
My 4070 Ti can run pathtraced CP2077 with FG at 75 minimal FPS so it gives us around 45 actual frames and it feels good. Like seriously. People are just repeating shit some youtuber said.