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What Is Cheap? Tekken Cheese Analysis
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2019
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This RUclips channel is dedicated to Tekken :) The best fighting game to ever grace this beautiful planet!
Now disss is a university lecture i would attend. Even at 9.00 am
Bachelor's Tekken Degree
Well I'm watching at 11:40 so you're not alone. lol
@@gtabestjulios lol i meant am
nigga, my uni morning lectures start a 7.30 am
Yeah it's better than school I'd rather watch this guy discuss this then go to school but how can I describe cheap expanding the same moves over and over but the game like most of these taking games don't provide a counter or Tech rolls or anything they could just keep on spamming the same cheap combo without ever being able to stop there are no counters to most of these cheap floating combos or whatever you want to call them we used to call them juggles the game provides an Avenue for the player to be cheap it wants the player to be cheap
"Tekken is about.. in the end.. FUN.... -damentals."
Gold :)
Well said💪🏽
King-mains are cheap, i mean armor king costs 5$ and they still play the ol' normal jaguar.
Well... It's not like they're both the same character, right? Because if they were, what's the point of buying AK?
I can agree that they both have some similar moves and properties, but except for that, they're pretty my 2 totally different characters with a completely different game plan and strategy (I play both of them).
lol i get it
@@saltythesaltysalt22 I think OP was joking buddy
@@al3ssiov Maybe he was, I still feel I had to get it out of the way.
I see no one got the joke
"Sorry I'm writing like a mongaloid"
TheMainManSWE - 2019
i am mongoloid and i am writing beda
@Mijo Descalzo no u
Based
From your bit on Lei, yes people say Lei is cheap; he can win by throwing his 'phonebook of commands' at you just to find the 4 moves you don't know how to handle. But that is a different and much more respectable 'species' of cheap to the new school "crush-everything-launcher" brigade.
By extension, Yoshimitsu is often accused of being cheap because he has the largest set of "rule breaking" moves of the cast.
The newcomer will take a long time to understand how Yoshi's fundamentals are actually quite poor, his frames are poor, his moves are slow and weak, but once you learn the 1million ways to utilize his shinanagins, unblockables and things only he can do; that all that gets flipped back onto the opponent.
Characters like Lei and Yoshi have a massive pool of context-specific moves you HAVE to learn to have a chance at winning. They "appear to be cheap" when you lose to them, but it's a different and milder 'tier' of cheap to the long-distance-hopkick brigade.
@Disgusting_Developer but what character isn’t?
>video is called "what is cheap".
>starts w/ Rugal music in the background.
nailed
GENOCIDE CUTTER
TheMainEinsteinSwe
Cheap is everyone wearing that damn Levi's shirt...it's everywhere, jesus.
No cheap is a player who plays a overpowered character
At least it looks good, doesnt it?
U jus jealous m8
That t-shirt is expensive. no jokes. It's literally not cheap.
Its just a cheap wannabe supreme bogo. Thats why everyone is wearing this shitty tshirt (as if supreme bogos aint shitty enough) :D
Oh, Lei has (including all grounded) 15 stances and over 200 moves
And also counting all the endless stance transitions from different strings which are used as punishes, it becomes a total guessing game for you after he does his -10 or -14 frame punish.
But then again 50% of all times a hopkick works really well against Lei soooo he is difficult against new characters
Lei is the most set up heavy character too with each situation branching into many mixups.
HEEEYYYYYYYYYAAAA! bitches
correct
I wouldn't consider Lei easy at all
At least those are fair 50/50s
Just Rave Spin the enemy 4 times in row
Cheap is when you have a back n fourth battle that goes to 5 rounds. You hit each other with everything minus a grab and your opponent uses a cheap grab at the end of round 5 to win a close match. Cheap is when you spam the same move over and over again. Cheap is when you unplug when you're about to lose.
Cheap to me in any fighting game will always be and put simply: Low risk, high reward.
(More than likely to cover a lot of options with both simpler or very few solutions; therefore, effective).
That basically boils down to something/a move covering more options than it has counters.
That can be applied to picking a simpler character or a higher execution character as well since it's technically riskier to pick a higher execution character even though they can be just as cheap and the gameplan/strategies just as simple. There's just the debatable arbitrary barrier of difficulty holding them back, but that's what makes them fun and unique.
So jin's parry is cheap af? I agree
@@grantgarbour It's pretty good but i wouldn't say it's exactly low risk. Sure it recovers pretty quick but it still can be baited out and launched by everyone. It also doesn't guarantee a punish or frame advantage every time since its move dependent, so it has a very situational reward tbh.
That being said... Jin overall is pretty safe and pretty cheap.
@@Civil206 debatable. I've used hwoarang's rd that leaves me at +6 then did a 20 frame launcher rff f4~4 purposely to bait the parry. Dude parried, whiffed the parry and still blocked it. I thought "wow that's fucked up" so the same match I did rd again was at plus 6 and did a 18 frame mid, same thing happened. I kept trying to bait it because he was legit throwing it out the whole game. I don't recall ever punishing it in my experience playing t7, I usually can only get a low attack in because they stand block after
@@Civil206 I'd say given the reward could be possibly a wall splat, or launcher, and relatively little risk to just throwing it out. I'd say it's cheap af
@@grantgarbour I don't know the exact recovery frames on whiff tbh but I do typical catch him with delay electric or mids. Maybe It could use a few more recovery frames but the reward is still relatively situational. I really think his parry's too complimentary with all his other tools, it works very well with his kit.
Noctis is cheap, when a good player uses noctis it's stupid.
*O R A A A A A A A*
Stellar Fervour I actually do better against fundamentals noctis’s than I do scrubby ones
No joke, a lot of people in my regional tekken discord think Noctis is the best character in the game, but nobody will say it outside our discord.
Noctis players go home
even with fundamentals, this things are strong..
You know what, this video is one of the best Tekken videos I've ever watched.
That's because I'm directly concerned by it, I was asking myself these questions over and over and wondered why I had this feeling that some characters were overpowered. Getting rekt by spammers.
Thanks a lot MainMan, you sure will help a looots of players out there. This lesson was so damn instructive man.
please make a video about the fundamentals you talked about, I'd love to know more about them, anyway great video keep up the good work bro
Ok so I agree with the part about making tekken easier with crush moves etc (im a commentator in Norway and I saw claudio hopkick crush drags running 2 on stream, which is heartbreaking to say the least.. it hits RLX and aop), I dont like this either, and I bitch about this too. But TMM, pls. All chatacters are lab characters. Saying you need to know 5 moves against kazuya just isnt correct, by any means. I have over 50 A4 pages of lab notes spread across all characters, and on Kaz I have quite a bit. EVERY matchup needs to be studied, which way to sidestep, what range to stay in, what moves to launch? Which strings can I duck and launch? Which moves will be used as gimmicks? Which moves will be used in high level, and how to deal with them and so on. Tekken is a lab game, period. Some characters need more lab time than others, but there are answers to every single move in tekken. As a tekken player, its your job to find the answer if you want to progress.
In the case of Kazuya you gotta be just as sharp as any other character when punishing, and to be sharp? Well guess what, you gotta fucking lab.
Hellsweep - launch
1,1,2 - launch
uf4,4 string - launch
df3,2,1 string - launch
ws4,4/df4,4 - launch
Df2 - minus 12 punisher
1,2,4,3 - block low and punish with 13 frame ws move/low parry it
These are just a few examples of one aspect of playing against kaz (block punishment), but you gotta be JUST AS SHARP defensively to deal with these moves than to deal with moves from Eddy or Lili or Hwoarang or Claudio. There is literally no difference (other than the crushing aspect from say claudios hopkick). Every fucking character is a lab character, and for example Leis stances can often be dealt with with with two moves (one to interrupt razor rush animal stance cancels, and one that hits RLX variations), and what does this do? It removes a ton of moves from the movelist. And those 150 moves suddenly doesnt look so intimidating anymore.
You had me right up til' the end, where you lost me. I was so close to agreeing with you, so close. I'll leave a thumbs up since it was so close.
If you have 50+ notes for each character on how to beat them, you're not a casual player. You're literally proving his point.
This is where you went wrong.
@@vegetoavery Tekken isnt a casual game in it's design. The design it self is centered around the depth. If you wanna play a simpler game? play Street Fighter or MK11 (and even those alot of depth, just not to the extent of tekken). Games like these have a long lifespan (like LoL, Dota, csgo, and also tekken), because it is almost impossible to master for a human. This makes it interesting, because its the journey that is fun and not the end goal it self. Learn to deal with it, or play something else. Don't try to force developers to change the entire franchise, that's where I get pissed at him. He struggles (and doesn't spend enough time learning), he whines, he got a community and spreads misinformation and a negative vibe.
@@TGregers you're going off on a tangent, when you cant address the initial arguement. It's like talking for no reason.
Hes explaining why things are cheap for the general population of tekken, "casuals". You're basically just saying stop complaining get good. You're offering a solution (an obvious one at that). Mainman is showing an understanding of conceptual game design, which you are not.
Its basically a lecture on what characters are easy and why, which apparently flew over your head.
I forgot to say, nobody mentions changing the game, in fact if you paid attention, which it seems you didnt, tekken 7s new characters already changed the game in a negative way (in the amount of skill necessary to win) along with rage art and crush and still mainman nor anyone wlse is asking for developers to change stuff, you made that up yourself.
@@vegetoavery You can't have read my initial comment very well. He touched on what Ive been talking about this entire time at the end of his video, which is LAB CHARACTERS. Which is where I said I disagree (the point where he talked about Lei's movelist etc). You're not even showing an understanding of my comment, so there's no point in commenting if you dont read what im saying. Yeah the new characters with moves that crush mids and have moves that grants great reward (like noctis db1+2), are stupid. Which again, I agreed with. BUT, he whines like a little girl about Lili, Lei, Eddy, Yoshi etc. Which is characters that have been in tekken forever, and he STILLLLLLL doesnt know how to defend properly against them. And he says "oh these characters are lab characters", and this is where he doesn't grant us with any type of understanding. He is showing us LACK of understanding in this area. All characters are lab characters! "Yeah and kazuya only uses 5 moves, so its about how you use them" .. LOL is all I can say about this comment that he makes. Im pretty certain you will ignore all this, so I'll end it with this unless you have something constructive to bring to the discussion.
@@TGregers the fact that hes calling these characters lab characters already acknowledges the fact that the need to be studied more than others. Do you need to be explained what a lab character is or not?
When you say noctis db 1+2 is stupid, this is Exactly the type of easy mode concepts hes talking about the entire video. Did that fly over your head? This whining and asking the developers to change shit are all things you've made up. And again this video was here to describe cheap characters and moves lists to casuals and why they struggle with certain matchups "guy who has 50+ notes per character".
It's funny you cant even realize you're proving mainman right, with your own self created irony.
Long post incoming. After watching this a couple of times I figured out what was bugging me. I think your overview of what are fundamentals and how they effect outcomes is missing two things; conditioning, and reads. I will use a recent experience of my own to illustrate what I mean.
You assert that all things being equal it will be the player with the better movement, punishment, and poking that wins. I recently played a number of excellent sets against an AK player who was quite good and better than me in all of those areas. He clearly knew the matchup based on my feeling him out, and I know the AK match up pretty well. Based on your logic he should have carried most of the sets, but he didn't. I won something like 5 out of 8. All good games most of which went to a 5th round.
So what gives? As often as not I had a pretty good idea of what he was going to do and when. I spent time feeling out how he reacted in specific situations then used that knowledge the next time it occurred. Then I figured out how quickly he adapted (very) and used that against him.
Now I'm not bragging. I'm an okayish player, I just play a char, Yoshi, that has to be very committed when attempting anything. This forces me to constantly be attempting to condition, download, and re-condition my opponents. Same goes for Lei, and I've seen you complain about both characters extensively. Reads and conditioning are a factor for everyone just like the fundamentals you accurately outlined here. They are also intertwined. It doesn't matter if I know what you are going to do if I don't have the skill to move and punish properly. If you can however, it's the player than can tell (or better yet dictate) what happens next that will win.
You have a very Kaz-centric view of the game. I think it causes you to discount a large part of the cast as 'lab characters' without really understanding what it takes to win with them. As if they are getting all of their wins off of their opponents poor match up knowledge (which can be the case especially in lower ranks or when taking Panda into the TWT finals).
So I propose you pick either Lei or Yoshi and put your game where your analysis is just like you did with Noctis, Kat, and Jack. Take one of them through the ranks to TGP. I'd like to see Yoshi personally, and not just because I wish there was more English language Yoshi content on RUclips... I think you'd expand both your horizons and your audience.
Leave a LIKE if you'd watch TMM take Yo-man or Supercop to TGP. Leave a dislike if you'd like to see him do a 10 hour dance solo to Arsenalty's Noctis mix. I'm good with either.
Josie's hopkick does not crush Highs and mids, it's the same as AKs hopkick and it has terrible range. Her df2 is way more broken then her hopkick
king yama here’s some josie tech, try a hop kick after someone blocks josie’s switch stance 2. If they jab then her hopkick will crush and launch
@@Ziproductions99 that's because the jab is out range and the hopkick is punishing the whiff, plenty of characters have setups like that yoshi df2 into hopkick jin ff2 into hopkick, Shaheen db2,1 into hopkick AK ff2 tip of range into hopkick will all do the same thing
You just contradicted yourself saying it has bad range, and then saying it wiff punishes a long-range high jab string. So yeah, stop defending your character and accept that she has a cheap hopkick.
@@johnfischer707 relax buddy I dont play josie I just know my matchups... sws2 doesnt have much pushback on block but its enough to make a jab whiff, if your doing a jab string then your extending your hurtbox forward then ofcourse your gonna hit, that's tekken basics
And besides the point josie is not as cheap as half cast in the game, if you bothered learning matchups maybe you wouldnt have a problem with her, your like that kid that calls king cheap cuz you cant break throws lmao
I think the last main roster in T5 is all fudamentals going from easy to harder to know
I used to play tekken for more than 10 years in Japan (and quit because it became an almost exclusive online game) and your explanation at 3:40 is so true! FYI there was a lot of high crush uf4 before T7 (but indeed nothing as powerful as the new T7 characters hopkicks).
Anyway, one of the most interesting channel about the mechanics of Tekken, Good job sire!
TMM is really good at explain this kind of thing, in my opinion.
To be honest though, I never went on the technical side of Tekken before.
I started to learn frames and all that stuff with Tekken 6, and then I tried to learned the essentials.
Now I know how to move, how to punish and all that stuff.
Besides, I always tried to play fighting games for fun: get angry about it never helps.
And everytime I go online and I get many defeats, I slowly start losing the patience, and I forget it's just a game.
Now, to me when it comes to “Cheap", I rather think it as a broken move, or a high risky move that it Either pays you of, or not.
Doing them is risky, but if the move is really good, Why not use it?
Exactly lol people are looking for excuses. If someone isn't adapting to a move you're using, then beat them with it, especially if money is on the line.
14:10 *cries in Gigas*
He also forgot Kazumi. But her hopkick is terrible and his point was "all the new characters have cheap hopkicks", so he probably forgot about her because of that.
I played eddy for this exact reason when I first got tekken😂 Met some good players and realized I knew nothing about the game so i picked up kazumi and jin learned neutral, frame data and worked on my execution and now I main lee cause his game plan and execution require you to have solid fundamentals but he's also not as bland as a straight fundamental character. Winning and landing optimal combos in lag against brain dead Katerina's and Alissa's makes me know I'm doing good and actually learning😎
You can actually acquire solid fundamentals while maining lab characters.
Kiko Mills You can do anything obviously but it's much more uncommon.
I would really appreciate a vid like this, explaining frames, minus and plus, how you learned all that and how to begin a training to make combos.
Whether it's intros, jokes, or even coaching Tekken, you always reign supreme.
Wow, I did not know you could get this deep with such a simple question. I feel super enlightened now!
I love Tekken, I've never been a cheap move person and funnily enough my main is Lee.
Lee, even with with great knowledge of the game isn't cheap and relies on CH's and juggle's to do decent>great damage, the only thing not cheap about him I guess is his reliable wall carry.
Lee's stage = not cheap
Lee's endings, explosive golf balls, 10s of hot women at the pool, running his own business = not cheap
Lee's suit = NOT CHEAP!
Lee Chaolan...is the defintion of not cheap! ;D THANK YOU HARADA-SAN FOR ACCURACY!
The only thing I dislike about Lee is how less proficient players spam his power-crush moves that lead to substantial damage for low effort, (unlike his just-frame combos, wich are cool as hell btw).
Other than that he is EXCELLENT!
*speed kicks has left the chat*
He thinks tmm is scrub for thinking this way
I remember when the game came out. No one could stop Akuma hadoukens at long distance. I climbed like from 9th kyu to like Vanguard or Warrior something between there only thanks to that lol
Akuma's spammable hadokens should be expunged from the game, along with his other Street Fighter mechanics. The same applies to Noctis, Geese and Eliza.
Back then when I was still learning, I use to hate cheap characters but then you lab them and know the match up and I improved but I still hate online Law players lol the end
Pretty much 😂
ONLY GOD KNOWS how much i love these types of videos from SWE i can just sit here and listen to these for such a long time... it actually makes me think clearly about the topic and in depth. I miss these videos from u nowadays tho.
Yeah, you're absolutely right and people like Speedkicks don't understand this. Just because THEY can handle it after years of dedicating their life to the franchise, years of practice and playing Tekken at a high level doesn't mean stuff like this is fair balanced and fair. They're the complete exception and don't see that the risk to reward is completely messed up for those characters. Why does a Ora with those insane tracking, crushing, range, pushback AND rather low minus frames exist? Sadly even THEY will get stuffed by this. Disappointed that some (pro) player can't understand that stuff like this is not balanced.
He plays Hwoarang...
Even pros like Fergus freeze in front of Hwo pressure
Josie's hop kick doesn't crush mids and you don't get anywhere close to 70 dmg if it hits
josie definitely has one of the most normal hopkicks in the game tbh and you get like 60 damage
OH YEAH! Catching mainman back to back to back 🙏👌
Gimmick: A move that doesn't start with an "e" and ends with "wgf" is gimmick.
Cheap: Any character TMM has not enough knowledge about to defend against(which is most) is cheap.
I haven't played Tekken in such a long time. I first played Tekken in the arcades when it was released and fell in love with it. I spent hundreds of dollars playing Tekken in the arcades and then it was released on PS1. I spent countless hours practicing all the characters moves on the PS1 and then I would take my bag of coins down to the Arcades. Haha, Those days were fun. I kept playing through Tekken 2, Tekken Tag and then Tekken 3. I loved ling, Lei, Jin & Jun when they were introduced. But the characters that were released after, not so much.
Anyways, even back then their were players who cried "cheater" or said that was a "cheap move" even back then.
In short, crying "Cheater" and "cheap" will always be apart of games becuase crying foul is easier then working towards being great. I don't believe that will ever change. And by the looks of it, it hasn't.
Yes, perhaps some characters are unfair when performing certain moves (which will always be the case in any game) but that doesn't mean you can't play the same character as he or she and perform the same "cheap" on them.
Look up the guy who won the Tekken tournament using Panda. He lost alot of games but he did finally win when he could have easily cryed or switched characters, which he did do during some matches.
Anyways, I enjoyed watching your videos. They are very fascinating after 15yrs or so of sitting on the bench. And reading all the comments is very interesting, lol
Good video. But Chloe's hopkick is -15, though.
Every time I try to explain this people just get salty and RQ irl. Smh
Its like you have a PHD in tekken !
I really enjoyed this video hope to see more of your in depth analysis its just amazing to watch and expands my own knowledge of the game and wanting to improve my fundamentals knowing how important they are.
Thank you for thi awesome video, keep uo the great work !!!
@TheMainManSwe you should try lecturing us with tekken terminologies
Hi, I'm mainmanswe and welcome to my TED talk
Lei has 11 stances and almost 200 moves
You really broke it down like a Harvard Professor, really thoughtful and thorough stuff there
Short version: cheap is something with a lot of power but little effort.
thats called efficiency
@@CephlonMayngrum thats called tekken not physics
Cheap is spamming a certain move over and over
💯
Cheap is turtling by Kazuya and use only 3 OP moves and complain about other characters while you still winning.
I think using "crush" when not referring to TJ or TC (jumping/crouching frames) is misleading. They EVADE some moves, but they're not IMMUNE to all of those moves. Hopkicks are IMMUNE to lows because they have jumping frames. The scrub hopkicks have an evasive animation that SOMETIMES lets them evade SOME highs or mids. Saying that a Claudio's hopkick, for example, crushes highs is like saying a backswing blow crushes mids.
This is obviously a video aimed at the beginner-ish level of player, so I think calling a hopkick invincible is VERY bad. It's gonna result in people throwing out hopkicks as though they were actually immune to highs, and then post stupid gifs on r/Tekken when it doesn't happen.
hopkick does crush all highs that dont hit at 0 range. If it doesn't crush it, it trades. If it is at zero range the high wins, only if it's not katarina
A lecture on the Ora. From the Ora professor himself
College just wrapped up for me, but time for a fun class with daddy Adrian
What program/equipment was used to make this video? Btw I agree Im a Jin, Nina, yoshi player and I had a tough time getting out of yellow ranks. Soon as I picked up Feng I was destroyer that night lol I'm now orange ranks with Jin Nina yoshi Feng and Julia but I will say that to do consistently good with Jin it took a lot of time.
I hate when a mid get crushed. Instead of labbing i always demoralize and play other games.
Shit happens man, dont give up. Beating bullshit like that makes the game worth playing
same been thinking of going back but I'm not never sure if I should
warfighter1988 i really love learning about tekken and kept playing so long with thousands of failures. But the thing in here is not fitting tekkens mentality and that pulls me back.
Green rank btw
@@ElNightmareYT ?
90% something of players never won their first online match,and 50% something of ranked players don't make it past warrior. Its not really off to say 99.99% are not at a competitive level.
Caludio's bnb combo damage is 58. So he is more fair than the others.
@@SnakeInTheRain he has not the longest range hopkick. And i said "his bnb combo".
I have a friend I play Tekken against occasionally and all he does is pick Hwo and use jumping 3,4,3 1,1,3,3 and 3,3,3,4 which is just the "cheap" moves that'll always hit ai in treasure battle and he somehow thinks that translates as good moves for real matches
Man I wish I had your friend. I have a friend and all he plays is Xiaoyou. So believe me when I say I know cheap.
What is cheap ?
Alisa hopkick : 15 frames, launcher, you are -13 on block BUT your opponent is crouch. So let's spam it
In many cases that's actually better place to be than standing since there are some extremely strong ws punishes compared to standing 13 frame punishes.
@@wikishi Exactly. For example, Leo's WS4, 1+2 is great. I still hate Alisa's hop kick though.
In terms of chloe her hopkick the one that crushes insanely anyway is her uf3 and chloe's uf3 is i15 but also -15
True about her hopkick but her back turned roll 3+4 3+4 is actually insane. Must be side stepped half way through to punish. Does crazy damage if landed
@@Titus585 i can definitely agree with that as a chloe player cali roll is really good there are some outplays like using a 13f mid to interupt and float it
For me, whose not really that great at the game, cheap is when facing a character requires a ton of character knowledge. So yeah you can lab hworang's frame traps and counter everything. But if you play the game at a lower level or just play casually, then you won't have the time and you'll just get frame trapped forever and it feels super cheap.
I should pursue a Bachelor's Tekken degree instead of a LLB/ Bachelor of Law's degree😂
It didn’t take me long to learn the games fundamentals and mechanics, you just have to be passionate about it. Took me a year to get to blue ranks which is good considering that I just started playing tekken last year
While I'm here, I'd love to see a guide for the general movement options. Like getup, run, slide, etc.
nice now i understand some things that didn't make sense in older Tekken games.s but can you make a similar Video about cheese/cheap for Tekken 8 and what changed on the system like the chip damage & backdash for new players wouldn't understand about kat or chloe
+ it would be better if it was with Gamply examples footage instead of drawing & writing thanx
My friends and I were playing soul calibur 6 and they were telling my back grabs are cheap because I kept walking around their vertical attacks. All I said was it was a free 60 damage if you don't break, deal with it.
Love these types of videos good bit of venting after ranked 😂
Chloe hopkick -15
Entholcarurub She has 2 hopkicks ! one is -13 and only crush lows, the 2nd is -15 and crush lows and highs, even mids sometimes
20:45 Kazuya has a 13 frame PEWGF launcher that potentially leads to 70+ damage... and Lars used to have his f2,1 F SEN1+2 natural combo for 12 frames...
Did u ever done a pewgf once in your life?
Ive done f2 1 F Sen1+2 literally anytime I want, I main Kazuya for maybe 12 years but I've only ever in a game punished a -13 move, with perfect ewgf once. Granted I dont play Tekken 7 very often but I doubt its ever really an option Kazuya players considers to punish -13 moves hell ewgf isnt even the first thing most Kazuya players would think to punish -14 moves with. The general rule with Punishment using electrics is -16 unless you are really feeling yourself that day.
Dude do you understand how hard that is to do? Block punishing a -13 move with a perfect electric is even harder than the ch df2 pewgf. Even people at the absolute highest level can not do that even close to consistently and most wont bother trying in a real match.
Just to put it in context for you, pewgf is not bufferable (nor any wind god fist of any kind), meaning you have to start it on the very first frame out of block stun (and thr blockstun on -13 moves is not always the same, an attack might do 15 frames of block stun and have 28 frames of recovery, or it might do 20 frames of blockstun and have 33 frames of recovery. Both -13, completely different timings.), you have to hit forward on that exact frame then neutral the very next frame, then df and 2 the very next frame. Who is doing that and why do people act like anyone realistically does this even in god ranks, let alone anything less?
MainManSwe, I've been watching your videos since the T6 days. I agree with this 100,000%. Everything you said in this video is 100% accurate.
Well I use my lightning fast Backdash , known as the Korean backdash in the Tekken community, to create space and blow aggressive players up with counter hits. So I don't have to worry about the other players offense as much, But your absolutely right with this, it's hard to move that fast and when I mess up I sometimes find myself being eaten alive.
You don't need to define "Korean Back Dash" to the Tekken community.
he is the chosen one lol
@@xLimitlesso I suppose you're right bro. Only a handful off players actually use it now days.
@@valentinonur I got a lot more work to do before I can say that.
@@ladrellhart2063 wtf are you talking about, you must be low rank if you think that... literally all higher ranks use it
Having these cheap, none Tekken characters makes the game unbalanced.
I wouldnt say unbalanced as tmm said they are only strong in low skill ranks. But they obviously ruin tekken image. All new tekken 7 chars are bullshit
crazy911wman sayeed is fine.
@@hastalavista6172 Real fighter with serious story is replaced by crying girl with big tits. Sounds like terrible idea to me
I would say that the only real character who I welcome is akuma as I learnt him but good difficulty is ridiculous like you can't do anything without thinking seventy steps ahead
@@yusufbukhari6962 Agree with you. Akuma is kind of strange in tekken but he fits well. Hes similar to feng but on steroids :D
"people spam because they are avoiding this bubble (defense)"
Don't forget about adding Leo to that list, Mainman! I still remember you saying he was like Katarina if Katarina was actually good!
TMMs Fundamentals as a Kazuya main don't include defense lol
Would Ling's D1+2->D1+2 count as a panic move? She ducks under a pretty long list of moves including mids and retaliates with a launcher. If so, it's possible that the panic move showed up way back in Tekken 3.
Very intelligent video. I will never downgrade you or your content again. Well done and thanks.
Definetly have no problem with hop kicks. I find sweeps and counter hits the problem and hella cheap in Tekken 7.
how about just labbing lei instead of complaining about an "unfair" matchup? you can easily trim a lot of fat off of his movelist by just actually looking at the moves. invest like 2 or 3 hours and it becomes an extremely rewarding and fun matchup for both sides
Cause must people don't want to buy a dlc just to train against for someone they will never use
Maybe I haven't played enough or in too long a while, but I never remember seeing Josie's hopkick crush anything but lows. And I have actually played her quite a bit as I used to play Bruce a lot in previous titles. In my experience, the best attribute of Josie's hopkick is the big range and hitbox considering it's looks, but that's all.
Her butterfly edge (or whatever it's called; U+3) is bonkers evasive though. But it's not a hopkick, it's more like an orbital (like Bryan's, which is also stupid evasive).
Is there something I have been missing, or have I just not spammed it enough to see it happen?
Eddy Gordo. A HUGE one you didn’t mention.
Crush system was the beginning of dishonest Tekken play IMO.
I'll never play tekken but this was a good watch.
Agreed. A lot of these principles apply across most fighting games. There's something to be learnt here even if you don't play Tekken (particularly the part about attack v defense - spamming strong moves to place the burden of spacing/character knowledge onto your opponent).
Awesome video, as always. I'm learning new things everyday with you. So thank you and keep up!👍
Low risk high reward? EWGF is safe on block and lunches for big damage. As for spamming its a bit fault of a game for rewarding it and thus encouraging.
Gabriel Śwdziński electric also evades some highs sometimes
it's pretty short-range and not difficult to whiff punish.
oh yeah, and also the whole frame-perfect input thing
A cheap move is a move that gets almost no damage when punished but does huge damage when it connects. A cheap tactic is spamming 50 50 mid low mix ups. It's just so fucking annoying to fight against
Cheapness exists only in the heart of the scrub.
I feel like if u play cheaply with noctis and katarina then it will come back yo haunt u in the latter half of ranks but thats just my opinion. Cant cheese forever.
Yes you can they just end up being 1000+ win greens
25:32 King:Am I a joke to you?
For jin players... ora×jin's parry = free kankan at close range, electric at mid range and f4 at max range
And if I fuck up at 3 bars my ass gets launched wow nice price
Kazuya is a lab character at a lower level. Even though a lower level player might know what to expect from a kazuya, doesn't mean they know how to block the hellsweep 50/50s. He just saying kaz isn't a lab character because he mains him. Yes, kazuya is harder in the long run compared to kat. But at the beginning labbing both is needed. Btw Don't put Alisa in the same category as Lei. Lei has 7+ stances Alisa has 1.
Why don't y'all petition for Namco to add frame data in Tekken? It would greatly improve labbing imo, games like Mk11 and Doa6 prove that point flawlessly, and it's stupid that a high budget game like Tekken can't afford something so essential in a fighting game
Harada is against it personally
In Tekken it takes 3 days to learn offense and 3 months to learn defense
Cheap is Leroy Smith Possessed by God Rugal
Hey you did a better job explaining how tekken works than mike ross and gootecks every did about street fighter 4 on what cheap and how the game should be play
kac022796 well they play street fighter not much of tekken buddy
Screw the shortcut, I'm doing Yoshi.
Bigger normal backdash would help a lot :D
I suddenly got scared when mainman raised his voice
New characters, their cheap easy to use moves and Rage Arts is the price Tekken has to pay to live another game.
The complexity and difficulty of Tag 2 almost killed it.
At least t some extent, this must have been an excuse to use your drawing tablet haha. Please more of this
You are false about hopkick being -13, Chloe's is launch punishable like they should be. Granted she has 2 of them.
What is cheap? baby don't ORA!
Mid avoiding launchers are cheap
Claudio
Dah!
Shivering
This kind of lesson is what we need in life.