Is the Bible Ahead of Its Time? | Talk Heathen: Throwback
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Does science need to catch up? #religion #debate #science
Call the show on Sundays 1:00pm-2:00pm CDT: 1-512-991-9242
Don't like commercials? Become a patron & get ad-free episodes & more: / talkheathentome
► Find all of our links here: linktr.ee/athe...
The podcast may be found at:
tiny.cc/podcastph
Talk Heathen merch can be found at: tiny.cc/merchaca
Note: We request pronouns as part of the call screening process on our shows, and we display the pronouns our callers provide. If you see a caller with no pronouns indicated, this is because they chose not to provide us with any, and we respect that decision.
-------
WHAT IS TALK HEATHEN?
Talk Heathen is a weekly call-in television show in Austin, Texas geared toward long-form and on-going dialogue with theists & atheists about religion, theism, & secularism. Talk Heathen is produced by the Atheist Community of Austin.
Talk Heathen is filmed in front of a live studio audience every week at the Freethought Library of the Atheist Community of Austin.
The Atheist Community of Austin is organized as a nonprofit educational corporation to develop & support the atheist community, to provide opportunities for socializing & friendship, to promote secular viewpoints, to encourage positive atheist culture, to defend the first amendment principle of government-religion separation, to oppose discrimination against atheists & to work with other organizations in pursuit of common goals.
We define atheism as the lack of belief in gods. This definition also encompasses what most people call agnosticism.
NOTES
The views and opinions expressed by hosts, guests, or callers are their own and not necessarily representative of the Atheist Community of Austin.
/ talkheathen is the official channel of Talk Heathen. "Talk Heathen" is a trademark of the ACA.
Copyright © 2024 Atheist Community of Austin. All rights reserved.
![Yailin La Mas Viral, @kreizyk.official - Dale 2 (Remix) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JaYHBzgqz94/mqdefault.jpg)
I'm not surprised that Casey likes to "keep it simple" as he is doing a great job at keeping himself simple
Lol, he was not prepared
He’s a simpleton.
Smooth brain
Being simple is ok, being gullible, accepting claims without good evidence, is not.
Omg the CAT! What a cute surprise 😂❤
The Bible implies the earth is flat , there’s not a single verse that implies it’s a sphere.
If you can't tell the difference between a circle and a sphere then you sure as hell don't have the capability to understand the theory of relativity. Hence why he got so mad and started insulting the hosts.
Personally, I think the theory of relativity is a bit wordy. It smells nice though. The general theory of relativity is good in bed, the special theory of relativity is out of my league. They’re both fun at parties.
What do you think of the theory of relativity? Katy: “I think it’s nice, it’s a nice theory.” Absolutely the winning answer!
Which one? Special relativity or General relativity?
By 500 B.C.E. most Greeks believed the earth was round and in 240 B.C.E. Eratosthenes measured the circumference of the Earth, fairly accurately.
Yes, it is hard to believe that sailors wouldn’t work it out when they see the shore sink over the horizon as they headed out to sea or saw island grow out of the sea as they approached. And of course they climbed the mast to see even further than those people on deck.
I love that he keeps saying that science said it was flat. 😂😂
Nowhere in the Bible is a mentioned of the earth being a sphere
okay, thanks, i thought that was the case. i'm sitting here losing my mind wondering why jmike and katy didn't address this. i'm like "IT'S NOT IN THERE, FLERFS USE THE BIBLE AS EVIDENCE!"
Wasn't my boy Galileo sentenced to life in prison by the Catholic Church for promoting the heliocentric model? Seems weird to do if the Bible already stated the Earth was a sphere and not flat.
He lived the last ten years or so of his life under house arrest after he recanted. Giordano Bruno refused to recant and was burned as a heretic in 1600.
The thinking at the time was that the Earth was at the centre of the Solar system.
The Bible doesn't say sphere or flat. People infer those opinions based on other weird parts.
To be fair, whether the Earth is spherical is a different question from which body rotates around which.
Little more complicated then that. Galileo insulted a number of church leaders, including the pope who had largely been sympathetic, and misquoted them as well and was sentenced to life in prison.... a sentence that lasted exactly a day before his daughter, a nun, intervened and got it changed to house arrest. He continued his work, continued to publish, the two new sciences is arguably his greatest book and was published after conviction, and could even travel as long as he had an escort. Not the worst fate for someone tried by the inquisition by s long shot.
Just another example of a Bible lover twisting the words in the Bible to fit what was known much later.
There are too many Caseys out there. The Dunning-Kruger effect is far more devastating than Covid ever was.
JMike kept saying, "parity of reason" as though the bumpkin on the other end understood it. 😂
Turtles all the way down
callers almost never ask “what does that mean?” when they don’t understand something.
I thought he said parody of reaosn.
Theists generally don't become or stay theists, by wanting to have good reasons for their beliefs, lol
Flat earth ears think the earth is a circle, and Christian’s persecuted scientists for saying it wasn’t flat.
The Bible also says the earth is on 4 pillars
and that it has a firmament. doesn't specify what stars actually are, and so on.
So Christianity would've had its own Space Program a couple thousand years ago.
If the Tower of Babel is true then yes.
Flown up to the dome. Built a base anchored into it. Taken seismic measurements. Hopefully not drilling through...
The idea of a spherical Earth was first documented in the writings of Greek philosophers around the 5th century BC. By the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy had established that the Earth was roughly spherical and calculated its circumference.
Yep. It took me 3 minutes of google search to find the same thing.
I cannot believe how intellectually lazy some people are.
Theists are highly motivated, to misunderstand anything that disagrees or otherwise makes their magical beliefs more difficult to hold.
The universe according to goatherders - sounds about right.
Guys, its very simple. Very simple. Very simple. Very simple.... very... simple......
The bible does not claim the earth is a sphere, it actually says round, but it comes from the ancient Hebrew for a transcribed circle, a two dimensional shape.
The bible also claims a tree so tall it could be seen from everywhere on earth and that Jesus was taken to the top of a high mountain where he could see all the kingdoms of the earth.
I always thought that the bible said - or at least implied - that the earth was flat and that the sun rotates around it.
Admittedly, I may be incorrect.
I haven't read any of that nonsense since the 3rd or 4th grade. That's when I realized it was all just fairy tales and mythology.
The ancient Hebrew cosmology posits a flat, circular Earth surmounted by a clear dome, with waters beneath, around and above the domed land. It is set upon foundations that take the form of columns.
@@drlegendre Pinnacle of bronze age scientific endeavour! It must be true.
@@drlegendre I would adjust that. It does not posit flat or circular. A clear dome may be over a flat or it may be a larger dome with a smaller one inside of it. The Bible is mono-myth for sure and not true. Supernatural is the carrying case. But It doesn't specify a shape and reading it does not strictly point to them thinking it was flat. Whoever made the religion on the mono-myth template certainly knew better. But we have to know what that template is to make sense of any of it. Hero's Journey.
I wouldnt be suprised if that was in one of the books that got voted to not be in the bible.
The Bible also claims you can see the whole world from a mountain top. Matthew 4:8.
_“And gather the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.”_ *Isaiah 11:12*
Four corners? Doesn't sound very round to me.
"yOuR tAkInG tHaT oUt Of CoNtExT!"
@@thuzUNed Nope. You're lying to save your indoctrination through cognitive dissonance.
@@thuzUNed Prove your claim.
@@arthurunknown8972 thuzUNed was being sarcastic and was mocking the theists that make that comeback.
The Egyptians built the Pyramids on extremely tight cardinal directions because they tracked the circle of stars throughout the sky and knew which way was north. That only happens with a spinning sphere. The ancient Egyptians had a lot more on the ball than modern Christians.
Hmmmmm im gonna go out on a limb and say....
No
I thought that the Bible says the is flat?
If you're out, I'm out.
Your limb just broke, it does it also says the sun moves around the earth. To give more time to kill mother's and unborn children. Umm yes it does. You haven't read your book
I don't think he understands that adding "it's very simple" to the beginning of a nonsensical statement does not, in fact, make it very simple.
Scientists also estimate that IF the earth was flat, cats would have pushed everything off the edges by the year 200 BCE
Assuming you mean flat?
actually the cosmic cat, would be smacking us through out the galaxy
Honestly, the bible doesn't say the earth is flat or a globe. The earliest known mention was by Eratosthenes in the 3rd century BCE, who also calculated a pretty accurate measurement of the earth's circumference by measuring the angles of shadows at noon at two different latitudes. This suggests the Greeks knew it was round long before that. There's no reason to suppose the authors of the bible fables were unaware it's a globe, but didn't bother discussing it. This guy is reaching.
"Suspended on Pillars and has a Dome Over it."
Me thinks that sounds an AWFUL lot like it's Flat. But yes.
Science knows better. Too bad others do NOT like science going against their cult feelies.
@@hegyak Well, I think there are lots of ways of interpreting various passages, so it's easy to take metaphorical symbolism literally - if one wants to, or leave it as metaphor otherwise. I'm not too fussed what believers make of it, as I doubt there's much historical truth to be found in it, besides reference an occasional land, place, or ruler.
Was about to say this, thank you for putting this in better words than I :)
Agreed - It does not posit flat or circular. A clear dome may be over a flat or it may be a larger dome with a smaller one inside of it. The Bible is mono-myth for sure and not true. Supernatural is the carrying case. But It doesn't specify a shape and reading it does not strictly point to them thinking it was flat. Whoever made the religion on the mono-myth template certainly knew better. But we have to know what that template is to make sense of any of it. Hero's Journey. Only modern Christians are this dopey.
And the Egyptians built the pyramids very accurately to the cardinal direction by tracking the circle of stars in the night sky. That seems to infer they would have thought earth was a sphere.
Every time I look down on a circle it's flat.
15:10 for purring cat
This guy calls in under the name Jay from Missouri usually
0:29 29 seconds in and I couldn't stop myself chuckling. Sorry. There is a hebrew word for sphere but the bible uses the word commonly applied to the shape of a plate. This caller is the victim of apologists.
If the Jews and Christians supposedly knew the earth was a sphere, why did they wait until early and modern scientists proved the earth was spherical to start making the claim? They could’ve enlightened the world with this info ages ago.
The word used in Isaiah 40:22 is not 'circle' and certainly not 'globe'. It is 'horizon'
Why is Casey turning rude? You two have been very polite and patient with him.
Splitting hairs about ancient dates proves god
It's tiring listening to idiots, having a conversation with one for me is impossible.
The bible doesn’t say the earth was round.
It describes it a bit like a snowglobe toy, a base Plate with a dome over it
yet another apologist just waiting for their turn to talk
In Isaiah 11:12 It talks about the four corners of the earth.??
In the epic of gilgamesh it says gilgamesh flew AROUND the world
The level of "WTF!?!" my brain was going through when this caller name dropped as "Casey" and lived in Missouri. That was literally me until about 2016 when I moved out of state. So hearing this in a throwback for the show had me so surprised tbh. XD Good grief!
Edit: To clarify, this isn't me. I never called in to any of the shows, just turned out the major irony of this situation.
It is alway wild to hear someone talk and argue the way you used to when you were younger and more confident yet more wrong lol
That has never gone away for me. I still get the WTF moments
Don't worry this guy's name isn't Casey anyway, it's Jay, he's a regular caller and he always has the same bad arguments and arrogance. If you search for Atheist Experience or Talk Heathen followed by Jay-MO, you'll find some of his other calls.
I don't think he got banned or anything so I'm not sure why he always uses different names.
Matthew 4:8
King James Version
8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
That seems to imply a flat earth
Another reminder that None Given callers generally have the worst arguments. 🥳
Daniel 4:11 - Enough said.
The bible was written around 10 BC
Pythagorus figured the earth was round around 550 BC
LOL.......500 years earlier
"Casey (none given)"
Has an obnoxiously large US flag on his lifted truck and likes to wear a special red hat at certain gatherings....
Prove me wrong lol
I've been bumping around Flat Earth channels for a bit, and 100% of Flat Earthers are religious... Almost every single one of them is Christian.
100%. It only takes them going a point or two before they get to "well in the bible..."
‘I have evidence the Bible is accurate’
TL:DR 21 minutes later, no evidence has been presented and Casey is whining that the hosts just need to accept his beliefs as evidence…
Case in point, he tries to shift the burden of proof to the hosts.
You called them to prove why what you believe is true. Not only do they not have to prove that for you; they don’t have to accept any of your claims when you can’t provide evidence.
“It’s so simple” is not any kind of proof of anything.
'none given' pronoun callers are very good at wasting time, as per usual.
"It's common sense" Casey says, saying something blatantly wrong.
If you sit on the top of a hill and survey ‘around’ you see in a circle, you can’t survey spherically.
Casey seems to be confused and arguing between a circle and ‘flat’. But circles are flat. The Bible says the world is flat in his own best passage for ‘science is playing catch up’.
Looking to the sky, the moon looks like a circle, the sun looks like a circle, speaks to reason these ancient goatherders thought the earth was a circle. And still probably thought it was flat.
17:42 Theory of relativity is descriptive language relating to energetic reactions within the universe. It doesn’t claim like religions do, but it can be used to predict outcomes accurately and reliably…again, unlike all religions.
"round" is a disingenuous description. The bible says earth is a flat disk.
Was he just a troll? The tone of his voice seems like he's just waiting for a "gotcha"...
Don't they all, almost?
I’ve spent a lot of time in Missouri, there are a lot of Caseys and even more people that nod along with Caseys.
The bible absolutely *does not say* the world is a sphere.
According to the bible, the earth is a circle, and also has corners.
The bible says the earth is suspended on nothing, but is supported on pillars.
Beautiful cat!
The bible gets lots of things wrong. Even if it was the first to say the earth is a sphere (which it doesn't) that doesn't make the other claims of the bible true. Also, there were essentially no scientists in biblical times--there were philosophers which isn't the same thing. So if the bible happened to get something right (which again it didn't) it wasn't competing against science, it was just competing against the thinking of bronze age men--not a very high standard.
The theologists are much smarter than the geologists. HAHAHA oh Casey, are you serious?
The Bible says that the Earth was a *circle,* not a dsphere, and described it as a flat plane that has the could be seen in its entirety from a high mountain.
I like Katy, she’s a lot of fun and has a cute kitty cat. Can’t beat British wit
Flat Earthers believe it is a flat circle with a dome over it. So by that logic it's saying its flat.
What do you guys think of the sun, it's bright, right?
What do you guys think of math... It's got numbers in it, right?
What's your opinion on the sky? Very broad, right?
Quit with the 'parity of reason". The caller doesnt understand that
interesting and erroneous claims! let us also not forget the whole chapter of genesis and 'creation' that is complete crap!
Katy's cat looks identical to minr. Same markings everywhere😂
What's your opinion on skyscrapers
Casey is a prime example of the importance of staying in school...if ya don't, you'll end up like poor Casey.
That cat gets and deserves most of her attention.
Katy is smokin'.
I rest my Casey 🎖
I love the hosts. They’re smart and they do a great job. One thing that does bother me is they will ask a question pause and then continue talking and will not let the caller answer. Make your point ask the question and wait for the answer answer. It’s uncomfortable.
It’s hard when you hear the same answers over and over again. I mean, they can see what direction a theist is going from a mile away.
@@Alltime2050 agreed. Never said it was easy
@@Alltime2050I agree and that explains why they do it but it doesn’t really excuse it entirely. This may be the 1,000th time they’ve heard the argument, but it could be any number of viewers’ first time. To the uninitiated, it may appear that the hosts are dodging or simply dismissive, which isn’t helpful.
Additionally, it’s known that no one will ever call these shows with a valid and concrete proof of a god. It’s all supposed to be an exploration of belief and how someone came to it (“tell me what you believe and why”). Too frequently it seems the callers are merely props through whom the hosts sound off. I think it would be more fruitful to have folks present their views and reasoning in whole and then discuss afterward in a more organic fashion.
A lot of the calls are disjointed and needlessly combative. A lot of times people just wanna feel heard and the syllable by syllable tear-downs don’t allow for that.
Science as a methodology has really only been in play for a few hundred years, people have been able to demonstrate that the earth is a round sphere for thousands of years. The claim that “science claimed the earth was flat” just doesn’t bear out.
Pretty sure i remember the bible saying the earth has edges and also corners and areas where every edge and kingdom within can be seen.
the bible and in general to believe in a what ever god is and was only a tool of power to contol people. if you want to belive in something, you do not need someone to tell you or to follow rules someone created. it is a tool having power of others to force them to do what you want. nothing else.
The bible says in a certain verse, "the circle of the earth"
So a disc, not a sphere.
It also says that
- Jesus could see all kingdoms of the earth from very high mountain.
- There's a tree that can be seen from all ends of the world.
In religion "circle" will be twisted to mean different things, similar t the Noah flood, the word "earth", is that the earth as in land arund them or "earth" as in the planet ?
Missourah.
All atheists are lyres? I’m a bass guitar, thank you very much.
What? All atheists are medieval stringed instruments? I think you're all *liars*
It is a common feature among people who are the victims of a confidence trick to hide or deny it. They will even suffer big financial loss but not admit to the fact.
Those who fall for the religious con trick are just the same. You cannot argue with them because they will never admit to having been duped.
2:15 How about all those maps that Christians made showing the earth as a circle. A flat circle, by the way.
A "circle" is a two dimensional object. A sphere is a 3 dimensional object. A "circle" can be a penny, lying flat and not a sphere.
Poor crying casie. Everyone said the earth was flat ???? Everyone?
The Egyptians knew the world was round thousands of years before the Bible was written.
Casey felt very uncomfortable in the lion's den of critical thinking.
“The earliest documented mention of the concept dates from around the 5th century BC, when it appears in the writings of Greek philosophers. In the 3rd century BC, Hellenistic astronomy established the roughly spherical shape of Earth as a physical fact and calculated the Earth's circumference.”
Isaiah was written the 7th century
This segment shows these hosts WILL NOT CONCEDE when they are WRONG 😂
No dear Casey you're massively uninformed. At no time did people who could think EVER claim the Earth was flat.
First!
Well done 👏😉
Fabuloso!! 👌 🎉
The Theory of Relativity and the Big Bang Theory are mostly unrelated, as far as I can recall, and Einstein didn't make the latter.
the ancient Hindus held a remarkably advanced understanding of cosmology. Texts such as the Surya Siddhanta describe the Earth as a sphere, and these texts also speak of the Earth being suspended in space. The Surya Siddhanta, a classical astronomical text dating back to at least the first millennium CE, discusses the Earth’s circumference, axial rotation, and the heliocentric concept, all with astonishing accuracy for its time.
"He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth"... Oh my God. That is AMAZING. the earth is a circle but a flat circle. Lol. Like the moon. We only see one side because it is flat. That is actually a claim many have used. No one(or few that we know of)read that verse and thought it meant the earth was a globe because of the verse through the centuries until after science showed it was. Lol
It would have been better if Isaiah 40:22 said "sphere of the world" rather than "circle of the earth". A dinner plate is a flat circle, a wheel is a flat circle - circle does not necessarily imply sphere. But hey, no one can accuse the bible of having a clear unambiguous meaning.
Isn't that a sad repetitive classical quote?
Sigh!!!
The bible says God layed down the earth upon pillars so it cannot be moved
What about that bit!!!!!
To summarize: The bible does not claim, that earth is a sphere, church and people of the time did not interpret it as the bible calling it a sphere. But there had already been people, who had figured out the actual shape of the earth using the scientific method - so, if the bible had actually said, that earth was a sphere, it would not have been new or remarkable. But Casey still insists in using his series of false claims as proof for his position.
I do wish you'd have let him talk and explain his position a bit more. Instead of giving him a chance to make a claim that you could then tear apart, you jumped the gun and went off on tangents.
I appeal to authority! I win cuz my imaginary friend says so.
The bible, the bible, and what about the other 95% of the people who then lived outside that small Mediterranean area? What was their idea of the flatness of the world?
Doing your own study does not mean that it is correct to draw conclusions that are at odds with reality. Doing your own work is not justification for creating your own conclusions out of whole cloth. Just because you do the work for yourself does not mean that you will come to the right conclusions, especially if you have religious preconceptions.
"Yeah, but what about what this scientist said 80 years ago?" -every theist rebuttal ever
If a god created the earth that God could have given us the exact measurements of the earth I wonder why that didn't happen
the biblical story is of a 'snow globe' model, surrounded by water