Yeah, gotta agree with the others here, the static transitions just don't work. A simple dissolve or cut is perfectly fine. imo one of the hallmarks of the Works series so far has been a more understated presentation when compared to the flashier, more in-your-face approach taken by a lot of gaming RUclips channels, and this half-step into that territory clashes with that understated style.
I've played a legit Asteroids arcade cabinet, and it really is a unique experience that a standard monitor could never completely replicate. For one, your shots are actually _physically brighter_ than anything else on the screen, making them very easy to see and track. The opposite effect ends up happening with home releases, which end up displaying them as singular pixels which end up getting lost in all the other movement happening on screen.
Part of what makes the static transitions jarring is that the sound is full frequency. You could try cutting out most of the low end (high passing) and it would probably help.
Food Fight's arcade control was not rotary (a spinning knob), like Ikari Warriors. It was a self-centering analog controller. If you moved it gently, Charly Chuck would not move, but his eyes would spin around, and you could throw food in different directions while standing still, on a pile of food. Push the stick harder and he'd run, of course. That's a major gameplay mechanic not reproducible on the 7800's digital joysticks.
Ah, I see. I had trouble determining exactly how it worked based on second-hand info, and the best descriptions I was able to find explained it as analogous to Ikari Warrior. So my mistake on that.
I've grown to enjoy the live action beginnings (although I still miss the "next episode" Evangelion music) but I feel like Jeremy needs just a little more head room or the shot needs to be zoomed out a little bit. It's just the frame looks a little weird, cutting off just a little above the beginning of his hat. I also wish the static product shots lasted a little longer so I could get a good look at all of the components. But overall I'm enjoying the overhaul!
I am enjoying the slight change in format, the transition slapped me right back to my parents "family room" in 1986, sitting cross legged in front of the loudly humming Motorola solid state wildly spinning the VHF knob to 3. Great video as always.
Your video style as of late has a very Vestron Video: How to Beat Home Video Games feel to it. I dig it and the quality is as good as ever. Thanks for all the work and time you put into these great retrospectives.
Really not feeling the static transitions... They're just so loud and sudden and kinda ruin the nice, lower key, informative vibe the rest of the video has :/
Robotron on 5200 also allows the twin stick solution and is actually pretty amazing, presuming you have 2 working sticks. I recently competed in high score challenge for the 5200 version with others on Atari Age, and really realized how well it converted over. Its a bit easier than the arcade version; looking forward to comparing it to a 7800 version someday.
The number of old arcade ports that made their way on NES in 1988 will be an even more interesting contrast given how even more outdated Xevious or Defender would have been in 1988. It's good learning about the excellent arcade ports for the 7800 though.
And now that I have an Evercade, I've played Food Fight. It's pretty good. In a few weeks, I'll have also played both 2600 and 7800 versions of Asteroids.
Food Fight on the 7800 is fantastic, and I remember my jaw dropping when I saw the quality of the animation being presented, like everything is smooth and snappy at once. Somehow this game was even shelved for two years and it still had animation that was way ahead of most NES games of 1987. I especially love the mass splattering on the score when you win or on the player character when they lose, it's so punchy. And Robotron 2084 is suuuuch a depressing game. The odds are stacked against you and the story is super bleak cos you're tasked with saving the last surviving human family, but the only thing you can accomplish in the game is to eventually get a game over. Doesn't help that the enemies' aggression is emphasised with the flashing visuals and blaring sounds. Robotron doesn't get me pumped up like it's supposed to do, it just makes me sad.
Food Fight was my second favorite game for the system, I wasn’t particularly good at it, but it was loads of fun. Great detail in this video. Sub earned!
I began my gaming life with the NES (born in 85, here) and I love your Works series. Video game history is so interesting and I appreciate all the detail you go into while still keeping the videos interesting and digestible. Great stuff!
So I guess what I'm hearing here is that the Atari 7800 would've been a tour-de-force... if the video game crash had never happened. Shame about _Food Fight._ I'm surprised they've not done any versions of it since. It seems like something that could be peddled pretty infinitely like most of those older arcade style games are these days.
Heh, I had all three of these games for my 7800! I probably put the most time into Food Fight and Robotron 2084. I don't think I ever got used to the 7800 controller, though. I'd probably have enjoyed the games a lot more had they included that later controller model that was similar to an NES pad.
The label at 1:45 is blank. Though it's pretty clear what it's meant to be by context :) I have to agree I'm not wild on the static transistions, at the very least I think they might be a bit too intense, particularly since you're kind of soft spoken.
I found the new transitions distracting and annoying. I liked the format that the prior videos had and don't really see the need to change it. In terms of the actual content of this video, it's great stuff as usual. I don't have an Atari 2600 but I've thought a lot about getting one. I wonder if I should instead get a 7800 since it is backwards compatible. But then I also wonder how much use I would get today with great arcade conversions when I have games like Midway Arcade Treasures and have access to arcade perfect versions. Seems like the best time to invest in the 7800 would be in the 90's where it would still offer the best arcade conversions of many of these titles and we're far enough removed from the original release dates that there is nostalgia for them.
Unfortunately hardware-based video capture is a big part of this. I guess I could use the MiSTer Vectrex core, but I feel something's going to be lost with that particular system. In any case, I've drawn a line for myself here-I'm focusing exclusively on systems launched and sold after the NES.
Creative channel-switching transitions there. Also, you seemed to like 7800 Galaga a lot more than I did... the stiffness of the graphics just killed it for me. When Bunch told you that it was better than the NES version, it got me, uh, pretty animated. More animated than the 7800 version was, that's for sure. Also, a question: GenCom got out of the video game business, and sold its rights to Ms. Pac-Man to AtGames. Did AtGames get all of its other creations, or were those already claimed by Atari?
Awesome episode! Only disappointed you didn’t mention that you can play 2-player simultaneous on Asteroids cooperatively or competitively! It’s actually the only version of Asteroids I know that offers this! 🙂
I wanna say that I personally like the static effect, especially for this 7800 series specifically (somehow it "feels" more "right" for atari than nintendo?), but I think the volume on the static SFX might be a bit loud? Maybe 10-15% reduction would help. And yeah the rapid fire ones at the beginning were a bit much. But just a bit. An extra second or two of space (or just simplify the intro so there are fewer transitions, but it really is a clever gag, especially if it's not the same clip of Family Ties every time lol)
I think you'll find the next few episodes already incorporate the suggestions you've made. I've balanced the transition volume and added a little more padding around the cuts. My m.o. here has always been to try something new, step back, and refine it over the next few episodes (see also: live video segment quality over the past month). I've also invested in a better lav mic and a mixing board to make the live/v.o. audio quality more consistent. It's a process, so thanks for bearing with me.
FWIW, the Atari 8-bit computer port of Robotron also supports dual joysticks, and while not looking quite as arcade perfect as the 7800, I still think holds up *incredibly*
This episode sums up the 7800 in a nutshell: flashes of brilliance (Food Fight) mixed in with games that were either nice yet done better on the NES/Famicom (Galaga) or ancient relics gamers had long moved on from. Yes, Asteroids looks nice but it's still the same game people had already played on the 2600. And it doesn't get any better as the next five games were all ports of aging titles as well, while the NES and Master System were providing new experiences for gamers. And Parish isn't kidding at the end. The 7800 would have a total of 14 games by the end of 1987, its second year on the market. As I mentioned before, there were many months where the 7800 went without a new release. BTW I have to say 'nay' to the static transitions as well.
I can never go wrong with Robotron. Food Fight actually looks interesting. ...and suddenly I just realized that the Atari 7800 is the game that gave us Desert Falcon, which led to the Atari 2600 version of Desert Falcon, which haunts me to this day, with its awkward controls and that surprising sphinx's noise.
Re: your new editing style. I like the whole channel change feel, but the static gets a bit grating. Perhaps just turning down the volume or EQing out the hightones could make it more bearable.
That's really cool that Robotron 2084 was the first twin-stick shooter, I actually never knew that!! What's crazier to me is that I always remember seeing the little robot enemy sprites and never knew that they were part of an actual game. They served as the "mascot" for this old arcade-style ROM hack site (that I forgot the name of), and I always assumed they were ninjas lol. Needless to say, I learned a great deal of information with this episode Great video as always, Jeremy, but I won't lie, wearing headphones and hearing the static transitions made me jump every time. They were just a bit too loud, but other than that, great episode~!!
Well because it wasn’t. Like all the videos I see form millennials about past eras they rely on false narratives they’ve heard - and wiki. If you were around back then, you’ll know there were other twin joystick shooters before that, even on the 5200 the excellent space dungeon existed.
Ok good glad you are doing 7800 I just got an evercade and got for the atari collection. The 7800 console and collecting is starting to get expensive now.
Great video as usual. My memories with the 7800 are not good, unfortunately. The NES was all the rage at that moment, yet my father bought me a 7800 because it was cheap. It was literally a "we got a NES at home" moment. And I didn't get many 7800 games, just a couple and then puff, it was dead. At least it had retro compatibility with the 2600.
Good episode! Here's an advice for the static transitions: Turn off the transition sound effect and you'll emulate that effect from real-life perfectly ;)
It warms my heart to hear that these early 7800 games were actually very good. I've had a few 7800 cartridges for a long time but never had a console to play them on. It always looked really cool to me though. I can't wait to see more! I'm afraid though that I must also weigh in that I also find the static transitions very unpleasant, both visually and aurally. I appreciate the effort, but I think subtler is better.
You should talk about Ninja Golf on 7800, it’s pretty unique. At first it’s a regular golf game, but once you hit the ball it turns into a Shinobi-type game. I think that the special stages in Shinobi are in Ninja Golf too.
I think the static transitions could work if it wasn’t so harsh. Maybe turn down the volume on the sound and add a cross fade? Just a suggestion. Great content as always
@AmateurThespian I was four years old when that console debuted over here in Germany, got my very own NES two years later and played RPGs with my dad on his C64 and Amiga, especially titles like Dungeon Master. The comment rather was if i would have bought the console when i would have been old enough when it came out.
So, has it not been confirmed that Centipede was one of the 7800's launch games? That feels like such an obvious inclusion for the launch line up, and it would have been ready for it as it was developed in 1984. This has been confirmed thanks to packaging being discovered for the 1984 test market launch version of Centipede.
the transitions look interesting, but they prob should be quieter... (heck, i've even seen crt tvs which don't play sound during static, so it's perfectly realistic)
Food Fight reminds me of Kangaroo, in that neither Atari release seems to have gotten the extensive rereleases on home consoles many games from this era have received.
Did you know!: You can set the controls in the PS1/Saturn Williams Arcade’s Greatest Hits to use the 2nd player controls for player one, and so if you have two arcade sticks, can use a dual arcade stick setup to play Robotron. More fun than using the Atari 7800 sticks or the DualShock twin thumbsticks, IMO. Still, 7800 Robotron rocks. Also: no likey 7800 Galaga, nor 7800 Xevious. Stick with NES for both of you want 8-bit conversions of either game.
Jeremy Parish also, if you dig the 7800 Robotron, maybe check out Edladdin’s dual 7800 stick. A great controller with real arcade parts. All depends on how much you dig the Robotron, but he also offers other quality arcade sticks for the 7800 & ColecoVision with fewer features.
So as a 7800 owner there's something weird I'm noticing. Now I admit I haven't hooked mine up in decades, but for some reason all the emulation looks super wrong to my eyes and I know why: Lack of scanlines. For some reason, the 7800 is the only console my brain associates with scanlines. Is it possible that the low resolution of the 7800 made scanlines more prominent or something? Or it could just be the rosiest rose tinted glasses in the universe.
The 7800's resolution was more severely limited along the horizontal axis than vertical, so it shouldn't have affected the appearance of scanlines either way. Honestly, you rarely saw visible scanlines on consumer CRTs outside of higher-end models like Trinitrons, so it could just be memory making things up for you.
I'm scrolling through the comments to see if anyone's pointed out that Jeremy's copy of Galaga had a $0.05 price tag on it, but I'll point it out again - Jeremy's copy of Galaga was marked down to A NICKEL.
Robotron 2084 has always been my favourite arcade game from the nebulous "before times" from before I was born in 1989. I like stuff like Pacman enough, but can't quite get the whole madness that surrounded it, why it's supposedly so mind blowingly good, and stuff like Mario Bros (the arcade game not the NES platformers) are fun brief distractions but not much else. Donkey Kong is alright but the gameboy sort or port/sequel that has 100+ new levels is much better But Robotron 2084? Nah that game is still great, to this day. If it was made today it'd be a great little arcade style twin stick shooter of the type that there's literally thousands of on steam and ps4 and switch and xbox etc. I love Enter the Gungeon and I attribute that solely to playing Robotron as a kid. And my first exposure to it funnily enough the PS1 version, which is completely 3D but otherwise looks the same and has the same kinda graphics and sound etc. It's the same thing as Robotron 64, if nintendo fans know of that But yeah the fun of robotron 2084 isn't just good for it's time, good for an old arcade game, good with lots of caveats like that. It's just good. To this day, one of my favourite games. But it has to be played with twin sticks. Not with one d-pad. Cos that ruins it. Luckily modern controllers are very much up to the task I don't know why it's not available for the Switch. It'd be perfect for it, and there's plenty of arcade ports out for the switch, they're always cheap and very very well ported, and run completely smoothly, and have save states and so on. Robotron 2084 seems like it'd be a perfect on the go 15 minutes of playing it kind of thing. Maybe the rights to it are in licensing hell or something because of Midway going bankrupt. Apparently Warner Bros bought out the dead company and all the rights to the games. Warner bros have released games for switch so there's no reason to not port it, come on brothers warner, get on with it
My understanding is no. By all accounts, Atari saw NES gaining traction with its test launch and hustled to move their existing 7800 stock into retail channels. Mentions of Atari making waves with their intent to launch the 7800 started appearing in the press in early 1986, so it really doesn't seem like there would have been sufficient time to get these arcade properties licensed, developed, manufactured, and distributed by summer 1986. A few different online sources suggest GCC developed nearly a dozen games alongside the 7800 hardware, so Atari had a good chunk of existing material to draw on, especially since they were only able to ship 100K consoles in the 7800's first year. There'll be some newly developed (I think?) games next episode, though.
@@JeremyParish I think Choplifter was the first newly developed game for the 7800, there was a rather long gap between Xevious (a late '86 release) and Choplifter (which came out later in 1987)
Another great video on an often overlooked, yet fairly capable, system. I'd love to hear your opinion on the recent homebrew release called Rikki and Vikki for the console. It's truly stunning to see what the system is actually capable of.
One piece of feedback: Maybe zoom the camera out a bit? It was probably a mistake, as it’s done in your other videos, but I would like to see your whole face/figure in frame... Besides that, great video! I want to play asteroids now...
Very nice coverage of all games. Food Fight is a definite classic that the current Atari does not know what to do with. Doesn't it feel like Galaga was unfinished? I loved it in 1986, but after doing some 7800 homebrew, I fee like the game could have been recreated perfectly.
I like the TV channel metaphor, but the static is a bit weird. I don't remember having static flipping from one channel to the other, just the click of a channel changer.
It seems as though with the 7800, Atari was just doing the 2600 over again, but with more power. By the time I was playing games, those old single screen space shooter types of games were of no interest to me. After Mario, I wanted colorful worlds and secrets. Atari was way behind the times.
My eyes always roll at "if such and such hadn't happened Atari would've stayed dominant" type comments. Yeah, if their competition had never shown up of course they would've stayed on top of the trainwreck they made. :p
As launched in 1984 the 7800 would have had games as good if not better than the Famicom. Atari Inc would have had to rights to the Amiga for a 16 bit super console / computer by 1986
I'm starting to see why the 7800 didn't do well. An entire lineup of arcade ports can't compete with the competition already taking gaming to the next level, even if these ports look and play very well. Disregarding the games already introducing RPG like elements, a game that's already somewhat "arcadey" like Super Mario Bros has varied levels, progression, and can be completed. I can't imagine people would take single screen arcade games they've already played in the arcade over full on unprecedented digital adventures.
The 7800 likely would have been better received if was released when it was originally intended (1983) but as pointed out by 1986 it was seen as old hat and had much better competition to deal with.
Maybe the transitions would be less jarring if were more like the old-HBO-intro softer static? instead of...what it actually sounded like on manual-knob TVs, as here That’s a really cool shirt though! Where’s it from?
Robotron on the PS1 actually controls perfectly - you've got direct 8-way control for movement via the pad plus direct 8-way control for shooting via the four diamond-configuration buttons.
Oh, I finally parsed the meaning of this comment. Yeah. RUclips recently decided to start jamming midroll ads into videos by default. I've been turning them off one by one and must have missed this video, but I just figured out how to deactivate them across the channel. I'm sure I'll manage without the $5 of revenue I'm giving up, somehow.
@@JeremyParish that's really annoying. Especially if most of it isn't going to the people who create the content but instead to youtube. They've done a lot of dumb things lately, like kick disabled people off the site so they can't use it and access the videos anymore. Dunno how that can be legally possible in this day and age
Asteroids is my favorite 7800 game, the two player options are great. I actually prefer 7800 Galaga to NES Galaga as I find the 7800 version easier and I am not great at Galaga. I am about 90% sure Centipede was a 7800 launch game also.
European gamers got used to holding both D-Pads as they had different controllers. Plus, NTSC Atari 7800 consoles can't play PAL Atari 7800 games, but PAL Atari 7800 consoles *can* play NTSC Atari 7800 games.
Feels like it's been a while since we've had to reset the "X days since last Heiankyo Alien" sign
I have never heard of Food Fight until now??? Looks joyfully simple and worth many a quarter.
It’s very good!
Jeff gerstman played it on stream awhile back. Look up food fight on the giant bomb database and watch the old games 2019
It doesn't get any better on 7800 than Food Fight. It really doesn't.
You NEED to get a 7800 system just for this game. It's essential and so much fun!
I played it a lot on my 7800
"Namco's future spouse, Bandai."
LOL.
I'm not sure how I feel about the static transitions. They're a little jarring when they are back to back so quickly.
Yeah, gotta agree with the others here, the static transitions just don't work. A simple dissolve or cut is perfectly fine. imo one of the hallmarks of the Works series so far has been a more understated presentation when compared to the flashier, more in-your-face approach taken by a lot of gaming RUclips channels, and this half-step into that territory clashes with that understated style.
Agreed. Very jarring to see something like that on this channel given how understated and professional his content tends to be otherwise.
I've played a legit Asteroids arcade cabinet, and it really is a unique experience that a standard monitor could never completely replicate. For one, your shots are actually _physically brighter_ than anything else on the screen, making them very easy to see and track. The opposite effect ends up happening with home releases, which end up displaying them as singular pixels which end up getting lost in all the other movement happening on screen.
Part of what makes the static transitions jarring is that the sound is full frequency. You could try cutting out most of the low end (high passing) and it would probably help.
Food Fight's arcade control was not rotary (a spinning knob), like Ikari Warriors. It was a self-centering analog controller.
If you moved it gently, Charly Chuck would not move, but his eyes would spin around, and you could throw food in different directions while standing still, on a pile of food.
Push the stick harder and he'd run, of course.
That's a major gameplay mechanic not reproducible on the 7800's digital joysticks.
Ah, I see. I had trouble determining exactly how it worked based on second-hand info, and the best descriptions I was able to find explained it as analogous to Ikari Warrior. So my mistake on that.
I've grown to enjoy the live action beginnings (although I still miss the "next episode" Evangelion music) but I feel like Jeremy needs just a little more head room or the shot needs to be zoomed out a little bit. It's just the frame looks a little weird, cutting off just a little above the beginning of his hat. I also wish the static product shots lasted a little longer so I could get a good look at all of the components. But overall I'm enjoying the overhaul!
He said Heiankyo Alien! Everybody drink!
I like how you have steadly sprinkled more & more fun into these vids over the years. Food fight looks dope!
Ah, Toasty Frog. Excellent breakdowns and deep dives. Keep them coming.
I am enjoying the slight change in format, the transition slapped me right back to my parents "family room" in 1986, sitting cross legged in front of the loudly humming Motorola solid state wildly spinning the VHF knob to 3. Great video as always.
Your video style as of late has a very Vestron Video: How to Beat Home Video Games feel to it. I dig it and the quality is as good as ever. Thanks for all the work and time you put into these great retrospectives.
Really not feeling the static transitions... They're just so loud and sudden and kinda ruin the nice, lower key, informative vibe the rest of the video has :/
Yeah, I get the attempt, but not sure they work.
Ditto. You also need more headroom in your on-camera segments.
Love the transitions and aspect ratio effects you used with this one. Brilliant job as always!
Robotron on 5200 also allows the twin stick solution and is actually pretty amazing, presuming you have 2 working sticks. I recently competed in high score challenge for the 5200 version with others on Atari Age, and really realized how well it converted over. Its a bit easier than the arcade version; looking forward to comparing it to a 7800 version someday.
Love the transitions!
Galaga and Food Fight are on their way to my house via the mail. Bought them from atari.io. I'm so glad this video's out. It was meant to be.
The number of old arcade ports that made their way on NES in 1988 will be an even more interesting contrast given how even more outdated Xevious or Defender would have been in 1988. It's good learning about the excellent arcade ports for the 7800 though.
And now that I have an Evercade, I've played Food Fight. It's pretty good. In a few weeks, I'll have also played both 2600 and 7800 versions of Asteroids.
Food Fight on the 7800 is fantastic, and I remember my jaw dropping when I saw the quality of the animation being presented, like everything is smooth and snappy at once. Somehow this game was even shelved for two years and it still had animation that was way ahead of most NES games of 1987. I especially love the mass splattering on the score when you win or on the player character when they lose, it's so punchy.
And Robotron 2084 is suuuuch a depressing game. The odds are stacked against you and the story is super bleak cos you're tasked with saving the last surviving human family, but the only thing you can accomplish in the game is to eventually get a game over. Doesn't help that the enemies' aggression is emphasised with the flashing visuals and blaring sounds. Robotron doesn't get me pumped up like it's supposed to do, it just makes me sad.
Love every second of these videos.
Food Fight was my second favorite game for the system, I wasn’t particularly good at it, but it was loads of fun. Great detail in this video. Sub earned!
I began my gaming life with the NES (born in 85, here) and I love your Works series. Video game history is so interesting and I appreciate all the detail you go into while still keeping the videos interesting and digestible. Great stuff!
Of course you had to bring up Heiankyo Alien. :P
I love the new format, transitions and all. Excellent work as per usual.
So I guess what I'm hearing here is that the Atari 7800 would've been a tour-de-force... if the video game crash had never happened.
Shame about _Food Fight._ I'm surprised they've not done any versions of it since. It seems like something that could be peddled pretty infinitely like most of those older arcade style games are these days.
It may be added that the PAL 7800s came with Asteroids built-in :)
Man, you're making me want to bust out the 7800 again. I forgot how decent some of these early release arcade conversions are.
Heh, I had all three of these games for my 7800! I probably put the most time into Food Fight and Robotron 2084. I don't think I ever got used to the 7800 controller, though. I'd probably have enjoyed the games a lot more had they included that later controller model that was similar to an NES pad.
The label at 1:45 is blank. Though it's pretty clear what it's meant to be by context :)
I have to agree I'm not wild on the static transistions, at the very least I think they might be a bit too intense, particularly since you're kind of soft spoken.
The label isn't blank, it's only showing new information: The source credit of this particular footage.
@@JeremyParish oh ok! I misunderstood then :)
I found the new transitions distracting and annoying. I liked the format that the prior videos had and don't really see the need to change it. In terms of the actual content of this video, it's great stuff as usual.
I don't have an Atari 2600 but I've thought a lot about getting one. I wonder if I should instead get a 7800 since it is backwards compatible. But then I also wonder how much use I would get today with great arcade conversions when I have games like Midway Arcade Treasures and have access to arcade perfect versions. Seems like the best time to invest in the 7800 would be in the 90's where it would still offer the best arcade conversions of many of these titles and we're far enough removed from the original release dates that there is nostalgia for them.
Don’t know if it would fit anywhere in your series (it probably wouldn’t) but this episode made me want to hear your analysis of the Vectrex.
Unfortunately hardware-based video capture is a big part of this. I guess I could use the MiSTer Vectrex core, but I feel something's going to be lost with that particular system.
In any case, I've drawn a line for myself here-I'm focusing exclusively on systems launched and sold after the NES.
Creative channel-switching transitions there. Also, you seemed to like 7800 Galaga a lot more than I did... the stiffness of the graphics just killed it for me. When Bunch told you that it was better than the NES version, it got me, uh, pretty animated. More animated than the 7800 version was, that's for sure.
Also, a question: GenCom got out of the video game business, and sold its rights to Ms. Pac-Man to AtGames. Did AtGames get all of its other creations, or were those already claimed by Atari?
Hey Jess! My understanding is that GCC did pretty much all of its Atari dev under for-hire contracts, which means Atari would own the rights.
Awesome episode! Only disappointed you didn’t mention that you can play 2-player simultaneous on Asteroids cooperatively or competitively! It’s actually the only version of Asteroids I know that offers this! 🙂
I wanna say that I personally like the static effect, especially for this 7800 series specifically (somehow it "feels" more "right" for atari than nintendo?), but I think the volume on the static SFX might be a bit loud? Maybe 10-15% reduction would help. And yeah the rapid fire ones at the beginning were a bit much. But just a bit. An extra second or two of space (or just simplify the intro so there are fewer transitions, but it really is a clever gag, especially if it's not the same clip of Family Ties every time lol)
I think you'll find the next few episodes already incorporate the suggestions you've made. I've balanced the transition volume and added a little more padding around the cuts. My m.o. here has always been to try something new, step back, and refine it over the next few episodes (see also: live video segment quality over the past month). I've also invested in a better lav mic and a mixing board to make the live/v.o. audio quality more consistent. It's a process, so thanks for bearing with me.
@@JeremyParish You've always put out quality work, and it's only gotten better over time. Thank YOU for all the years of content!
FWIW, the Atari 8-bit computer port of Robotron also supports dual joysticks, and while not looking quite as arcade perfect as the 7800, I still think holds up *incredibly*
Food Fight, whoo!
This episode sums up the 7800 in a nutshell: flashes of brilliance (Food Fight) mixed in with games that were either nice yet done better on the NES/Famicom (Galaga) or ancient relics gamers had long moved on from. Yes, Asteroids looks nice but it's still the same game people had already played on the 2600. And it doesn't get any better as the next five games were all ports of aging titles as well, while the NES and Master System were providing new experiences for gamers.
And Parish isn't kidding at the end. The 7800 would have a total of 14 games by the end of 1987, its second year on the market. As I mentioned before, there were many months where the 7800 went without a new release.
BTW I have to say 'nay' to the static transitions as well.
6:34 drink!
I can never go wrong with Robotron. Food Fight actually looks interesting.
...and suddenly I just realized that the Atari 7800 is the game that gave us Desert Falcon, which led to the Atari 2600 version of Desert Falcon, which haunts me to this day, with its awkward controls and that surprising sphinx's noise.
Re: your new editing style. I like the whole channel change feel, but the static gets a bit grating. Perhaps just turning down the volume or EQing out the hightones could make it more bearable.
I regret missing out on Food Fight. I’ve seen it in the arcades, but I never gave it a shot.
That's really cool that Robotron 2084 was the first twin-stick shooter, I actually never knew that!! What's crazier to me is that I always remember seeing the little robot enemy sprites and never knew that they were part of an actual game. They served as the "mascot" for this old arcade-style ROM hack site (that I forgot the name of), and I always assumed they were ninjas lol. Needless to say, I learned a great deal of information with this episode
Great video as always, Jeremy, but I won't lie, wearing headphones and hearing the static transitions made me jump every time. They were just a bit too loud, but other than that, great episode~!!
Well because it wasn’t. Like all the videos I see form millennials about past eras they rely on false narratives they’ve heard - and wiki. If you were around back then, you’ll know there were other twin joystick shooters before that, even on the 5200 the excellent space dungeon existed.
I love your videos so much. The quality of presentation is top notch and your narration is just great. I could watch all day.
Ok good glad you are doing 7800 I just got an evercade and got for the atari collection. The 7800 console and collecting is starting to get expensive now.
Great video as usual. My memories with the 7800 are not good, unfortunately. The NES was all the rage at that moment, yet my father bought me a 7800 because it was cheap. It was literally a "we got a NES at home" moment. And I didn't get many 7800 games, just a couple and then puff, it was dead. At least it had retro compatibility with the 2600.
Good episode! Here's an advice for the static transitions: Turn off the transition sound effect and you'll emulate that effect from real-life perfectly ;)
You must have owned nicer TVs as a kid than we did, because there was always a quick static burst when we flipped stations.
@@JeremyParish Hmm... I see. BTW, I'm from 1996 XD Blame my dad for getting me into the 2600 and Atari-things in general
I play asteroids and galaga and still like both. 😀👍🎮
It warms my heart to hear that these early 7800 games were actually very good. I've had a few 7800 cartridges for a long time but never had a console to play them on. It always looked really cool to me though. I can't wait to see more!
I'm afraid though that I must also weigh in that I also find the static transitions very unpleasant, both visually and aurally. I appreciate the effort, but I think subtler is better.
You should talk about Ninja Golf on 7800, it’s pretty unique. At first it’s a regular golf game, but once you hit the ball it turns into a Shinobi-type game. I think that the special stages in Shinobi are in Ninja Golf too.
As always, this is a chronological series. I'll get there in due time.
Jeremy Parish nice, thanks
I think the static transitions could work if it wasn’t so harsh. Maybe turn down the volume on the sound and add a cross fade? Just a suggestion. Great content as always
Wouldn't have been my console even when it came out, i love RPGs like Might&Magic and action-adventures like Zelda way too much.
Yeah, it would be another three years before proper RPGs appeared on NES in any meaningful way.
@AmateurThespian
I was four years old when that console debuted over here in Germany, got my very own NES two years later and played RPGs with my dad on his C64 and Amiga, especially titles like Dungeon Master.
The comment rather was if i would have bought the console when i would have been old enough when it came out.
High-speed Food Fight is THE BEST!
Anyone else notice that the sound in the Food Fight footage is pitched way lower than normal?
Yeah, I noticed that! It should be much brighter sounding and higher in pitch.
So, has it not been confirmed that Centipede was one of the 7800's launch games? That feels like such an obvious inclusion for the launch line up, and it would have been ready for it as it was developed in 1984. This has been confirmed thanks to packaging being discovered for the 1984 test market launch version of Centipede.
It was part of the launch lineup, and I somehow overlooked it.
Avoid using white noise for static effects, try using deeper noises like pink, brown or blue noise.
I'll add a brown note just for you
the transitions look interesting, but they prob should be quieter... (heck, i've even seen crt tvs which don't play sound during static, so it's perfectly realistic)
don't listen to the anti-static haters jeremy. speak your truth.
Food Fight reminds me of Kangaroo, in that neither Atari release seems to have gotten the extensive rereleases on home consoles many games from this era have received.
Did you know!: You can set the controls in the PS1/Saturn Williams Arcade’s Greatest Hits to use the 2nd player controls for player one, and so if you have two arcade sticks, can use a dual arcade stick setup to play Robotron. More fun than using the Atari 7800 sticks or the DualShock twin thumbsticks, IMO. Still, 7800 Robotron rocks. Also: no likey 7800 Galaga, nor 7800 Xevious. Stick with NES for both of you want 8-bit conversions of either game.
The 7800 Galaga & Xevious are good, but the NES versions are definitely better.
Jeremy Parish also, if you dig the 7800 Robotron, maybe check out Edladdin’s dual 7800 stick. A great controller with real arcade parts. All depends on how much you dig the Robotron, but he also offers other quality arcade sticks for the 7800 & ColecoVision with fewer features.
It's too bad I missed out on the 7800. I guess I was too busy with my NES to care.
So as a 7800 owner there's something weird I'm noticing. Now I admit I haven't hooked mine up in decades, but for some reason all the emulation looks super wrong to my eyes and I know why: Lack of scanlines. For some reason, the 7800 is the only console my brain associates with scanlines. Is it possible that the low resolution of the 7800 made scanlines more prominent or something? Or it could just be the rosiest rose tinted glasses in the universe.
The 7800's resolution was more severely limited along the horizontal axis than vertical, so it shouldn't have affected the appearance of scanlines either way. Honestly, you rarely saw visible scanlines on consumer CRTs outside of higher-end models like Trinitrons, so it could just be memory making things up for you.
I'm scrolling through the comments to see if anyone's pointed out that Jeremy's copy of Galaga had a $0.05 price tag on it, but I'll point it out again - Jeremy's copy of Galaga was marked down to A NICKEL.
I remember paying 9 cents for Super Mario/Duck Hunt at Funcoland in 2000 or so... If I had stocked up then I'd be dozens of dollars richer today.
Robotron 2084 has always been my favourite arcade game from the nebulous "before times" from before I was born in 1989. I like stuff like Pacman enough, but can't quite get the whole madness that surrounded it, why it's supposedly so mind blowingly good, and stuff like Mario Bros (the arcade game not the NES platformers) are fun brief distractions but not much else. Donkey Kong is alright but the gameboy sort or port/sequel that has 100+ new levels is much better
But Robotron 2084? Nah that game is still great, to this day. If it was made today it'd be a great little arcade style twin stick shooter of the type that there's literally thousands of on steam and ps4 and switch and xbox etc. I love Enter the Gungeon and I attribute that solely to playing Robotron as a kid. And my first exposure to it funnily enough the PS1 version, which is completely 3D but otherwise looks the same and has the same kinda graphics and sound etc. It's the same thing as Robotron 64, if nintendo fans know of that
But yeah the fun of robotron 2084 isn't just good for it's time, good for an old arcade game, good with lots of caveats like that. It's just good. To this day, one of my favourite games. But it has to be played with twin sticks. Not with one d-pad. Cos that ruins it. Luckily modern controllers are very much up to the task
I don't know why it's not available for the Switch. It'd be perfect for it, and there's plenty of arcade ports out for the switch, they're always cheap and very very well ported, and run completely smoothly, and have save states and so on. Robotron 2084 seems like it'd be a perfect on the go 15 minutes of playing it kind of thing. Maybe the rights to it are in licensing hell or something because of Midway going bankrupt. Apparently Warner Bros bought out the dead company and all the rights to the games. Warner bros have released games for switch so there's no reason to not port it, come on brothers warner, get on with it
If they only would have put a pokey sound chip in the 7800. Sound effects were sub par compared to the graphics of the console.
True.
Do you know if any of the games released at launch were developed for the 1986 release, rather than the original intended launch?
My understanding is no. By all accounts, Atari saw NES gaining traction with its test launch and hustled to move their existing 7800 stock into retail channels. Mentions of Atari making waves with their intent to launch the 7800 started appearing in the press in early 1986, so it really doesn't seem like there would have been sufficient time to get these arcade properties licensed, developed, manufactured, and distributed by summer 1986. A few different online sources suggest GCC developed nearly a dozen games alongside the 7800 hardware, so Atari had a good chunk of existing material to draw on, especially since they were only able to ship 100K consoles in the 7800's first year. There'll be some newly developed (I think?) games next episode, though.
@@JeremyParish I think Choplifter was the first newly developed game for the 7800, there was a rather long gap between Xevious (a late '86 release) and Choplifter (which came out later in 1987)
That's the deduction I put forward next episode, yeah.
Oh wow, I didn't know Robotron 2084 was created by Eugene Jarvis. Thanks for the review my friend, good stuff!👍 👍
Not the biggest fan of the transitions. I think that if you're going to keep them, don't have them being so loud. Other than that, great as always
Another great video on an often overlooked, yet fairly capable, system. I'd love to hear your opinion on the recent homebrew release called Rikki and Vikki for the console. It's truly stunning to see what the system is actually capable of.
Great video, but the audio on the static transitions is jarring. I don’t mind transitions, but I’d rather have none than these
i had the 7800
One piece of feedback: Maybe zoom the camera out a bit? It was probably a mistake, as it’s done in your other videos, but I would like to see your whole face/figure in frame... Besides that, great video! I want to play asteroids now...
Very nice coverage of all games. Food Fight is a definite classic that the current Atari does not know what to do with. Doesn't it feel like Galaga was unfinished? I loved it in 1986, but after doing some 7800 homebrew, I fee like the game could have been recreated perfectly.
Hey,
I don't wanna go to work today
Wanna stay home and play all my video games..
I like the TV channel metaphor, but the static is a bit weird. I don't remember having static flipping from one channel to the other, just the click of a channel changer.
It seems as though with the 7800, Atari was just doing the 2600 over again, but with more power. By the time I was playing games, those old single screen space shooter types of games were of no interest to me. After Mario, I wanted colorful worlds and secrets. Atari was way behind the times.
My eyes always roll at "if such and such hadn't happened Atari would've stayed dominant" type comments. Yeah, if their competition had never shown up of course they would've stayed on top of the trainwreck they made. :p
As launched in 1984 the 7800 would have had games as good if not better than the Famicom. Atari Inc would have had to rights to the Amiga for a 16 bit super console / computer by 1986
I'm starting to see why the 7800 didn't do well. An entire lineup of arcade ports can't compete with the competition already taking gaming to the next level, even if these ports look and play very well. Disregarding the games already introducing RPG like elements, a game that's already somewhat "arcadey" like Super Mario Bros has varied levels, progression, and can be completed. I can't imagine people would take single screen arcade games they've already played in the arcade over full on unprecedented digital adventures.
The 7800 likely would have been better received if was released when it was originally intended (1983) but as pointed out by 1986 it was seen as old hat and had much better competition to deal with.
The transitions made me think this was a horror-themed episode, haha.
I've noticed whatever you're using to record Atari 7800 games has the sound an octave too low.
Puberty, man
@@JeremyParish Fair point
Maybe the transitions would be less jarring if were more like the old-HBO-intro softer static? instead of...what it actually sounded like on manual-knob TVs, as here
That’s a really cool shirt though! Where’s it from?
I think the shirt is from Uniqlo, but don't quote me on that.
Robotron on the PS1 actually controls perfectly - you've got direct 8-way control for movement via the pad plus direct 8-way control for shooting via the four diamond-configuration buttons.
In fact, thirty years later it GRAMMARLY MAKES YOUR WRITING CLEAR AND CONCISE. What has happened to RUclips in the past month or so?
What?
Oh, I finally parsed the meaning of this comment. Yeah. RUclips recently decided to start jamming midroll ads into videos by default. I've been turning them off one by one and must have missed this video, but I just figured out how to deactivate them across the channel. I'm sure I'll manage without the $5 of revenue I'm giving up, somehow.
@@JeremyParish that's really annoying. Especially if most of it isn't going to the people who create the content but instead to youtube. They've done a lot of dumb things lately, like kick disabled people off the site so they can't use it and access the videos anymore. Dunno how that can be legally possible in this day and age
@@duffman18 RUclips is becoming stupider and stupider as time passes, with people on the lead not having brains as to what works for the website...
Today on NES Works, Slenderman interrupts Jeremy every game with a jump scare
This jarring loud static sound literally gave me a headache.
Is it just me or is the sound a little off?
Have you tried removing your speakers from inside the aquarium? Happens to me all the time.
Asteroids is my favorite 7800 game, the two player options are great. I actually prefer 7800 Galaga to NES Galaga as I find the 7800 version easier and I am not great at Galaga. I am about 90% sure Centipede was a 7800 launch game also.
Two player Centipede was great on the 7800. It's been hacked to use trackball properly I think. Maybe 5200 is better though using its trackball
European gamers got used to holding both D-Pads as they had different controllers.
Plus, NTSC Atari 7800 consoles can't play PAL Atari 7800 games, but PAL Atari 7800 consoles *can* play NTSC Atari 7800 games.
Whatever he's using is emulating the TIA chip audio horribly.
Your emulator has terrible sound.
It’s not an emulator, cupcake
Whatever it is, those games on my 7800 sound better than what's represented in the video.
No need for the insult.
What do you have against cupcakes!?