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GRUMMAN-FLXIBLE "870" CRACKED A-FRAME PROBLEMS
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- Опубликовано: 3 сен 2009
- In December of 1980, a total of 2,656 Grumman 870 Advanced Design Buses in 27 cities, including New York, Chicago, Houston and Los Angeles, were taken out of service by their manufacturer, the Grumman-Flxible Corp., to reinforce the undercarriages on the buses.
Because of a design flaw, numerous Grumman 870s built between 1978 and 1980 began to develop cracks in their supporting A-frames, forcing the company to remove the entire fleet from service for underframe repairs. These A-frame repairs would cost Grumman-Flxible $7 million to correct.
The Grumman 870 A-frame problem was the focus of an evening news story broadcast on ABC World News Tonight in late-1980/early-1981. In this video clip, ABC News reporter June Massell briefly recaps the history of the Grumman-Flxible 870, its problems, and how commuters in Chicago had to cope while Chicago's fleet of 205 RTA (Regional Transportation Authority) Grumman 870s were grounded.
In 1984, the suburban Detroit SEMTA bus system (now SMART) purchased sixteen (16) Flxible "Metro" coaches (#8401-8416)-a similar-appearing revised version of the Grumman 870-to service the suburbs of Detroit. Although the Flxible Metro was based on the 870, the A-frame problem had been rectified by the time the SEMTA order was placed.
(video posted as an educational reference only)
For more Detroit transit videos visit:
www.detroittransithistory.info...
236 is the only Grumman 870 still surviving in the MTA livery, and is still owned by MTA for its heritage fleet.
The 16 Flxs SEMTA purchased "new" in 1984 (#8401-8416) were Flxible "Metros"-the improved successor to the Grumman 870. The A-frame problem was a non-issue by then.
However, in 1989 and '90 SMART picked up nine "used" 870s from Bay City MTA (renumbered #8089-8097) that were originally built for Grand Rapids in 1980. Those were part of the 2,656 Grumman 870s that were recalled and the A-frames repaired by welding steel plates to the undercarriage. By 1989 the problems had been rectified.
1:05: "We've never had any fuel spill, or a fire..."
February 3, 1984: "Y'all hold my beer and watch this."
Its why CTA didn't want any Grummans in the first place.
These buses were such a PR-disaster in New York (there was a big engine fire in Queens!) that MTA basically sold almost all of them to Jersey and Cincinnati! I was told Jersey Transit re-did the whole inside. Some of them are still running, 30 years later! But some good things did come out of the concept: wheelchair-accesible, more room and air-conditioning!
except that the good concepts were a given-after all it was a whole new generation after the new look generation grumman could have saved themselves a lot of ligitation if they just followed proper testing procedures and slightly delayed production to iron out the problems that proper testing would have discovered
The funny shit is that the MTA was about to order more of these in 1995, but by that point Flexible was wrapping up production as it was leaving the bus building game. They ended up buying 50 new Orion 5.501 buses in 1996 from Bus Industries of America (aka Orion).
MSBA (aka MTA Long Island bus, later NICE bus ) had a large fleet of 870 Metros as well and unlike their NYCTA counterparts, they stayed in service until the early 2000s when Orion 5.501 CNGs replaced the last of them.
the gruman fixable buses in jamaica buses company in queens serve 20 years on the q110,q111,q112,and the q113 from 1980 to 2000.
Also Long Island, MSBA
Baltimore MTA ran exclusively Flxible Buses from 1982 - 1995 and they never seen these problems. Funny because, every other city had the RTS and Baltimore MTA hated them.
yeah almost all american buses of that time period had serious problems Flxible wasnt the only one but its problems were exceptional
Too bad A.M.C did not see the Transbus project though, because they could have cleaned up on orders while these Grumman/Flxible 870s where having trouble.
I miss these buses in New Jersey
Me too. Last Grumman buses I ride was NJT (Academy Bus) #88 in 1999 before retiring and replaced Nova Bus RTS.
Grummans did well in Long Island, NY (MSBA) and some of the private bus lines in Queens
At the time this particular news story aired, New York City (and the rest of the Beatles-loving world) also had to deal with something else: the untimely death of a British musician named John Lennon, murdered by Mark D. Chapman.
These buses, once the A frame issues were resolved, served exceptionally well in the San Juan greater metro area of Puerto Rico, under the AMA transit authority.
The Washington Buses That Were Lend to New York Got Sent To Staten Island At The EdgeWater Depot Before It Closes 4 Years Later Sadly 2 Washington Buses Fell Of The Edge Of The Depot To The Water
Good thing the entire state of Florida and some other states were lucky, because Miami made a smart move to turn to GMC over grumman at the time and Broward, Orlando and other cities did not pick up any grumman 870's or flixible metro until between 1981-87.
I got to ride the Santa Monica grummans as a kid with my mom. Only once as a solo passenger.
What did she mean "so called Flxible buses?" Good thing the post-1980 ones were really good. Also, this news reporter completely forgot about GILLIG being a bus builder in the U.S.
***** Exactly.
+TheCRTman
Gillig was only just beginning selling city buses at the time, and only in California; they wouldn't reach out beyond the Golden State until 1982 or 1983.
ClassicTVMan1981X But I thought this film was done in 1984... but then again I've forgotten by now. What about Neoplan USA?
+TheCRTman
Neoplan USA started shortly after this clip was originally filmed. Note that this clip was filmed the night after John Lennon's passing.
ClassicTVMan1981X Ohhh this is 1980 then. So Gillig had barely made Phantoms and Neoplan USA was yet to be born in 1981. Was the Orion plant in New York open yet?
Most of the issues wouldn't all be Grumman's fault. The second time NYC MTA ordered their 1980 Grummans off of their property, in 1984, was actually because of poor maintenance by MTA mechanics, so pointed Grumman in a news article about the second time the buses they once made were removed from NYC.
actually most of the problems were a frame cracks and it was grummans fault-they put the bus into production and for sale before testing was finished...that decision cost grumman dear, they were still being sued by transit departments even after they sold off the flxible diviion
Even though this happened, Flxible fixed them & then came out with the Flxible Metro, which was made from 1983-1995, which is when Flxible finally went bankrupt.
I lost my job......after 22 years.....it was sad time for lots people............
Yeah, according to a Time magazine article from March 1981, New York City had to take all 637 of its new 870s out of service because of the A-frame cracks and then had to lease 150 old buses from Washington D.C. Chicago, on the other hand, replaced its 205 Grummans with 100 old school buses. I do remember reading somewhere that a fire on an 870 in 1984 spelled the final end for the fleet in NYC.
Yes, that is true about the 1984 incident. Grumman itself even blamed these faults on NYCTA's maintenance in a newspaper article published that year, one year after selling off Flxible. While New Jersey got the balance of these unwanted buses, Queen City Metro of Cincinnati, Ohio; Pioneer Valley Transit of Springfield, MA; and AMA of Puerto Rico also got some; the Cincinnati and Puerto Rico bound buses also replaced the 6V71N engines with 6V92TA DDEC engines.
Some of the cracked frame MTA busses were sold to my local transit agency after being fixed. They worked fine when they were here.
Wow I heard what I thought was a rumor yet ended up being true. Those buses were cheaply developed and produced. That's fraud!
I like those buses; I still see them sometimes in San Francisco area as Private Shuttles for the Golden Gate Bridge. Moving people around different places. My Dad drove those busses for Santa Clara County Transit, now VTA. VTA has retired its fleet of the Flexibles back in 2010. Those Buses were used from the early 1980s to 2010.
Some of my Family work for GILLIG Bus MFG in Livermore, Ca. They really have the best busses, then you have The New Flyer, not sure who makes the Flyer, I thought it was GM or something like that. because we did have AMC making the same looking busses almost Identical.
Some of my Family drive buses and I drive Trucks 18 wheelers.
I do miss the VTA Flexible by Grumman.
in 1983 it became the flxible metro buses from 1983 -95 the flxible metro a 1983-86 the metro b transits and the suburban buses are built between 1987-90 the metro c buses from 1990 -94 the metro d transit and suburban buses from 1993 -94 &the last metro e buses from 1994 -95
Don't forget the NYCMTA had 1 flx that they kept and that's the 236 witch was evidence now is a museum bus.
I was there - 970 Pittsburgh Drive Delaware Ohio..
1978-82 grummanflxible 870 adb 53 -40102 6-1 or 8-1
However, I was told back in June that the Gillig deal fell through, and no Gilligs will be coming to DDOT. Something to do with the type of engines. Instead the stimulus order was transferred to (who else) NewFlyer and now won't arrive until sometime later next year.
However, fifty regular diesel NewFlyers that were ordered prior to the stimulus fund monies are expected to begin arriving in January.
It does make alot of noise
MAN would've been the next best thing......
MTA NYC and MTA LONG ISLAND bus did not care as they where takeing there sweet time remodling the Fishbowl buses we had the Horrble grumman buses for 5 years
They did a great job though. A single RTS unit lasted around and sometimes over 20 years. I miss them.
Flxible operated in Fort Worth TX
0:14 "I think it stinks". 😒
A bus is still a bus & that was probably a once in a lifetime event in where transit buses were subsituted by school buses.
0:27. Look at that Lopsided Fishbowl.
new York City transit authority was stupid for ordering 637 of the grummanflxible 870 buses they should have bought one and test it for problems the new York City streets were too hard on the grummman flxible 870's cracked frames poor steering they can't get up the hill with the air conditioner on you have to turn off the air conditioner to get up the hill as a running start all flxible metro buses can't go up the hill with the air conditioner on not just the grummanflxible 870 buses they never added a air compressor but those were the good old days some njtransit drivers weren't thrilled with the flxible products ROHR INDUSTRIES did a great job getting the flxible away from the fishbowl look a like were GMC is known for its best hit from 1959 -86 the Rohr flxible low man hour bus and the flxible A B R buses were from 1974 -96 the flxible A B R 1974 -83 the grummanflxible 870 1978-82 the flxible metro buses from 1983 -96
That WAS correct! I first broke that story back in April on my DSR-2-DOT discussion group over in Yahoo!Groups. An AATA Gillig hybrid even visited DDOT HQs back on Earth Day and the event and the announcement of Gilligs joining the DDOT fleet was posted on the "official" DDOT website.
Fifty Gilligs, including four diesel-electric hybrids, were to be purchased with ARRA stimulus funds and were to begin arriving this month (September).
Fake news lol.
09/07/1962 bus rider 🪪 Medicare Card