Ripe For Reissue: Toscanini!!!
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2023
- How is it possible that RCA's Toscanini complete edition is out of print? Could yet another remastering be in the works? I'm sorry, but there are just some things that ought never to become unavailable.
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I couldn't agree more David. I continue to enjoy his recordings and feel fortunate to have the music collections I have of his and perhaps the most influential conductor for half a century, He still fascinates.
I'm midway through re-listening to Toscanini's 1947 OTHELLO broadcast (included in this set); it's almost impossible to believe what you're hearing, in terms of orchestral execution, style, idiom, etc....and the level of intensity throughout is almost frightening. How did the guy do it? (Not to mention the fact that young Toscanini played assistant principal cello in the world-premiere of Othello, and was actually addressed personally by Verdi himself in rehearsal...so there's some real...ummmm...authenticity in this performance as well). Then there's the great Boheme from 1946, the 5oth Anniversary of the opera's premiere, which Toscanini himself had conducted. I know all of this is information that anybody can look up, but this incredible recorded documentation must always be available to posterity, and should never be allowed to go out of print. LR
Amen!
A most fortuitous intersection, the career of a peerless interpreter with the development of the recording industry.
His "Pictures at an Exhibition" in glorious "New Orthophonic High-Fidelity" sound remains my all time favorite of this colorful work.
RCA cover art was was worth the modest (well perhaps not so modest) cost of the vinyl discs.
That 1947 Otello is unlike any other. A slowly tightening screw until the revelations of the last act slap you in the face. The actual broadcast before later corrections and with announcements is also available.
Your point on a community that can discuss recordings is a really important one.
For all its convenience, economics, and space saving (to say nothing of sound quality or breadth of options), my biggest issue with streaming is that it is never effectively curated. There are no notes, no recommendations, no points of reference--even within services dedicated exclusively to classical music.
When I was in college, I thought I was going to use the Naxos Music Library as my primary listening tool, especially when selections from the "major" labels were added. And it honestly is pretty good, especially if you're an academic, as some of those notes are available and you can actually learn about music as opposed to just wandering around a sea of recordings. However, there was no way to really understand what you were listening to and why. People do that, no matter how experienced with or how new they are to classical music. Online services, great as they are, lack the tangible connection to others that I think is essential to critical listening.
I find myself listening to my CDs and vinyl more than my computer files which I purchased or streaming. It's there, I own it, it's staring at me to be played :)
I wish Supraphon issued big boxes. Give us the complete Ančerl, or Talich, or Šejna, or Smetaček, or Chalabala, or Suk Trio, or Smetana Quartet.
AMEN to that! 😊
I agree. And this from a person who managed to find all of the individual cd’s released in the Ancerl and Talich Supraphon collections
As an admitted Toscanini cultist, I was happy to see this video. I purchased the original iteration of the Toscanini one CD at a time since I couldn't afford the complete set (small wooden shelf with glass door included, if I recall correctly). It was definitely worth every penny.
This box is one of my favorites. The wide range of works is astounding, performance and even sound is pretty good. I love his Beethoven, toscanini cured me of my early Furtwangler obsession. His verdi is fantastic, and i wasn't a verdi fan till i heard his.
Paul G
Well, this was a terrific video Dave. I love many of the Toscanini recordings. Also, right there with you in missing the community of recording nerds gathering at Tower Classical room in Mountain View (for example) debating the merits of some new recording of Tchaikovsky 4th Symphony compared to Mravinsky and the Leningrad, etc. Not something you do during an intermission at the symphony or opera. I shall be an old fogey with you. Nothing could beat it, a favorite memory was spending quality time with John Pfeiffer when RCA reissued the remastered Van Cliburn recordings. Yeah, it was great meeting Van, but, my inner nerd was so happy to talk to Pfeiffer about recordings. So vote for a new Toscanini set, yes.
I absolutely agree on your point on sharing. It is a joy to discuss recordings with friends.
Your point about lack of notes in the newer reissue is right on. I find it really annoying that many of the big boxes dispense with notes altogether and many of the downloads have "no digital booklet included". Sony big boxes (the "original jackets" ones) do often include notes on the back of the individual CD envelopes (though one needs a good magnifying glass to read them comfortably), but UMG and Warner often give no more documentation than a booklet with a contents listing.and a brief biographical blurb on the musician(s).
Probably the best solution would be a book(let) with a page or two for each CD in the box giving the original notes, the track listing with timings, recording details (date, location, etc.). I think that approach was used in a few of the early big boxes (Rubinstein, Perahia first 40 years, etc.), but those were originally aimed at a much higher price point than the current $2-$3 per CD.
Of course, one can always "Google" the composition and often find some details that way, but since so many websites just copy the Wikipedia article, many online opinions are simply duplicates of one original (including duplicates of any errors in that original).
The act of preservation requires a lot of material be judiciously remastered. Seth Winner has given a lot of lectures about this with regard to being in charge of the Toscanini archive in the NY Public Library source.
Seth also makes a raw high bit backup copy of original/unrestored source material. We've come a long way from the A.C. Griffith Symposium days.
I had the big Toscanini box but foolishly gave it away to a friend. I didn't have to buy his friendship: I already had it!
Forty years ago, when I was studying in Rome, there were six or seven Ricordi stores scattered all over the city. There was vinyl in the shops, and CDs were selling out on the sidewalks everywhere. I would always arrange to have a layover in London, to shop at HMV on Oxford Street and Tower Records at the Piccadilly Circus. I think HMV is still there. I would take in concerts and operas along the way, and haul music home.
Twenty years ago, I would fly from Montana to Seattle or Chicago, spend a whole day shopping at Tower Records, and fly home with the goods. I even had season tickets for the Seattle Opera one year. My first cousins in Seattle and my second cousins in Chicago got visited plenty in the mix. It may be convenient to shop on Amazon now, but what about those poor, neglected cousins?
Japan may be the last place on earth with brick-and-mortar music stores. What joy I had some years back going there to shop for laserdiscs. The Yamaha store! The HMV! The Tower of Tokyo, last Tower on thee planet! There were so few tourists there that the big banks downtown were not set up for currency exchange, can you believe it?
GREAT video Dave! I couldn't agree more.
Great Talk Dave. I use to love talking with the guys who worked at Tower Records in the Village.......great times!
I couldn’t agree more. Toscanini used to be a huge cash cow for RCA and they reissued his recordings frequently. I guess he’s not anymore and I hope his legacy doesn’t fall by the wayside as a result.
Are you aware of the book "Understanding Toscanini" by Joseph Horowitz? A thorough, insightful, beautifully researched/written study of the "cash cow" phenomenon you mention. It even includes a reprint of a 1977 RCA image from Toscanini- A Legendary Performer.. "suitable for framing"..just "cut along the dotted line." It's true. A fabulous book. LR
@@HassoBenSoba Yep. I read that one
@HassoBenSoba Yes. A great book. Some people falsely charge that it's "anti-Toscanini," but it's not at all! It enhances appreciation, if anything.
Great box and great video
I've heard many of those recordings! My early exposure to him was the Sunday evening radio re-broadcasts in the 60s.
Well said, Sir 👍
Right on target. But why am I not surprised that the Toscanini edition is out of print? So are the Reiner, Munch, Heifetz and Rubinstein editions (or so it seemed the last time I looked). Toscanini was THE conductor for my childhood and youth. Is he still valued today for the reasons you articulated so well, Dave? Again, I wonder whether the reputations of even the greatest musicians aren't fading in light of current trends, HIP perfomance practice, glitz and glamor. I hope I'm wrong.
Yeah, he was the Tiger Woods of conductors all right! Even non-musically! 😂
Re-releasing might be more justified by inserting new recordings of symphonies and concertos from broadcasts. There are symphonies by Mozart, by Attenberg, by kallinnikov, by Haydn, Martucci, and other pieces by numerous composers which have hitherto been released by unofficial record companies, or have not been released at all. Therefore it would be the right moment for a more exhaustive publication, enriched with covers of the type of old RCA lps and notes on broadcasts. Especially since many Toscanini broadcasts have a much better sound than what has been published so far.
Personally I already have them all, but I would like other Toscanini fans to listen to them too. Precisely for this reason I have published many on youtube.
It would be great to have wider coverage of the NBC legacy, even if it's been issued all over the place. There is indeed a great deal of "unofficial" material to explore.
@@DavesClassicalGuideAnd not only Toscanini. There are great NBC Symphony concerts by Rodzinski, Monteux, Boult, Carlos Chavez, Hanson (conducting the world premiere of his complete 3rd symphony), Mitropoulos, Reiner, Ansermet, Stokowski, etc. etc. A treasure trove and most of it survives.
Selling the reissued Toscanini at full price would have been so unrealistic. There was a precedent for low price reissue since many of the recordings had been put out on Victrola, the RCA budget label. I remember getting the 8 disc Beethoven set of all the symphonies, overtures, the Septet, for $16. I cut my Beethoven teeth on that set.
There are so many Toscanini live performances that, properly curated (by Seth Winner, for example) and issued would be great to have at midprice. The Sibelius 4th, Debussy Demoiselle Elue, the Harris 3rd, Dukas' Ariane et Barbe-Bleue Suite, Atterberg's 6th which the composer thought ideal. And a hidden gem, Templeton Strong's nearly half hour multi movement tone poem, Die Nacht which appeared on the same program with a Brahms Double Cto far better than the one that was released officially from nine years later. At least some of this can be found on you tube.
The unavailability of the complete Toscanini is a crime, indeed!
The criminal neglience is even more unfathomable, when one thinks of the wonders, that have been lavished on the complete Columbia output of f.ex. Bruno Walter - think of his 1946 Philadelphia recording of Beethoven's 6th symphony. Of course such a recording isn't tip-top HI-FI, but one, never the less, marvels at the aural picture being conjured forth by the sound engineers in this box (the recordings best incarnation ever - which is also the case with a wealth of other recordings in the Walter box, which is nothing short of an invaluable treasure trove!).
Might that we would be able to enjoy Toscanini's 1941-42 stint in Philadelphia in equal or almost equal sound! And the rest of his recordings for that matter!
If we in unison bellow our lungs out, I wonder if that might do the trick: WAKE UP SONY! TOSCANINI COMPLETE...NOW!!!
hardly any of my friends know who Arturo Toscanini was. Hardly anyone cares about classical music. They think I'm a fool for admiring such music. Yes, I have friends on FB, but hardly anyone in real life. It's a sad story.
In the classic THE ODD COUPLE sitcom, it was three photographic portraits of Toscanini that hung on the wall in FELIX UNGAR’s (TONY RANDALL’S) bedroom! (That was an ABC program though, not an NBC one, lol ).
I love this Toscanini complete edition and have listened to these recordings many times. The project costs have already been amortized, royalty payments are relatively low and primarily for the works where the still-in-copyright sheet music is still protect. CD manufacturing costs are very low. This set will sell and make a profit for Sony. So what's up, Sony?
Oswald Kabasta! Now there's an obscure one. Re: Toscanini: many of us older collectors picked this set up because we know who he was and he was a cultural icon. But for today's younger listeners not so much. And many younger listeners compare old mono recordings to b/w movies: not interested. If RCA were to ever re-release this. they should press them on mp3 disks - take up a fourth of the space and no one would be able to tell since the original recordings were not exactly hi-fi. And I, too, miss real record stores dearly.
I would love to hear your thoughts on what the best recordings of the Polovtsian Dances by Borodin are
Name and stature as determinants of price point (premium or otherwise) mean less when the later competition is better engineered and recorded. Guess the Toscanini family failed to realize that.
I am new to your channel (and just subscribed to Classics Today), and noobs should be careful about posting until they've taken things in a bit, but I need to pass on a thank you and a follow-up to your comment about community. (Sorry for the length of this comment.)
The "thank you": In one of your videos you mentioned the Toscanini biography by Harvey Sachs ("Toscanini: Musician of Conscience"). I was able to order a new copy of it from an Amazon seller that, for whatever reason, hadn't sold it yet. I meant it to be a read for the long Fourth weekend upcoming, but I have already dived into it, and already I am gripped by it. I know you like to focus on works first and recordings second, but any time you want to mention a valuable source for further reading, I would love to hear about it. (And, yes, I've purchased some of your own writings for my Amazon Kindle app.)
As for community: You only have a couple of years on me, I think (I turn 61 in November). My family was lower middle class when I was a kid (they worked they way up a bit later), and money was tight. Did you ever visit the record department at EJ Korvette? Meeting and talking with people there absolutely gives the lie to the idea that classical music is some snobbish pursuit. My high school teacher father chatted with people from all sorts of backgrounds there, all of them passionate about music. Classical music is for everyone.
One more fun "community" story. I was at the old Tower Records in Manhattan (downtown) with my opera buddy, browsing. I heard him conversing with someone about La Bohème recordings ... the usual chit-chat about historical versus more recent offerings (this was the end of the 80s). It wasn't until I got closer that I realized he was discussing the matter with Alice Cooper. Once again, classical music is for everyone.
Thank for your channel.
Great stories!
Thanks for those great stories. I did actually used to shop for records at Korvettes, and also at Grants (in CT). I once had a delightful chat about La Forza del Destino with Rudy Giuliani at the 72nd St. HMV store. This was before he went insane, of course. He was a big fan of Renata Tebaldi.
I have the Toscanini book too. I have read part of it so far - it is very good. My problem is I read some of it then I have to grab my Toscanini box set and start listening :)
Make sure you grab the Testament DVDs of his televised performances . Get a copy of the Furtwangler video of Till Eulenspiegel. Do a compare and contrast of their conducting styles... 5 minutes each is all you need. it's a study in management and communication theory. The absolute clarity of Toscanini vs. the emoted line of Furtwangler both could create extraordinary results. Both saw the big picture, and they had a purpose in an arc from beginning to end of their process.
Well noted, and refreshing to hear someone compare Toscanini and Furtwängler in a non-adversarial context. The two had different conducting and interpretive styles, of course, but both crafted many wonderful performances. It is the listener who decides which, if either, is preferred and one need not exclude the other.
@@leestamm3187 Absolutely. Eighty years after both went to the Valhalla of musicians, we ought not to be indulging this silly tradition of finding some reason to downplay one of the two for the supposed sake of the other. I know that I never heard anything like Furtwaengler's account of the entry of the Gods into Valhalla - getting white-hot splendour from a frankly second-rate outfit such as the RAI Rome Orchestra - unless it be the incredible, apocalyptic account of Dukas' Sorcerer's Apprentice, with that terrible cry for help from the trumpet at the climax, and the thundering blows that answer it. These were people who deserve memory and respect. The time for the confrontations, whether silly or principled, is past.
@@fabiopaolobarbieri2286 I might overreach here, but for my part I describe Toscanini and Furtwangler as two sides of the musical coin of the realm.
You lament the demise of the record-shop experience, a "community of shared knowledge of recording." But you must realize, I'm sure, that your YT channel is probably the closest thing to this phenomenon that exists today. True, the actual personal interaction/dialogue isn't possible, but you provide the next-best thing via your comment section. PLUS it happens every day, all around the world, so we don't have to wait to physically go down to the local record shop and see who might be hanging around for a chat. So the tradition still lives on, different as it may be. LR
Thank you. It's not the same, but together we have something!
While the gods reissue a new Toscanini box, why not issue the complete recordings of his talented assistant...Leinsdorf!!
His RCA BSO recordings would make a fine box despite some clunkers.
If this is to be reissued again without notes or texts, I hope it's via streaming.
This has been out of print for quite some time!
Yes Dave
What gets reissued is usually a topic of argu,ment but not here. It’s just absurd.
I remember the set that came inside wooden cabinet with a free baton thrown in. I was in HS then and couldn't afford it. I bought the 88-cd reissue a few years ago for $80. Times have changed. Having gone through it, most of the discs have horrible remastering and sound quality.
No they don't. Sound quality is what it is, but the remastering was carefully done, for the most part.
David, you have probably been asked this before: but what do you think of the various Pristine reissues of the work of people like Toscanini?
I haven't heard them.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks for the answer. But if you ever do, I suspect you'll find it an interesting experience and possibly very positive. My very best to you.
Maybe anybody who's going to buy this box already has it. They should.
Despite what you or others might think, you are not an old phart (proper spelling). Sadly the days of classic record (or even stores) are over and the internet can't quite take their place although websites like this help. Perhaps there is hope in the few really extensive used cd and LP emporiums.