@@aspacelex no I think the difference is the Christians don’t have such blatant intellectual superiority complex’s, just the looks on their faces say a lot
@@33Cigarettes If Christians didn't have blatant intellectual superiority complexes; then maybe, they should stop trying to convert everyone to their God.
@@jackalsgate1146 those are two different things, believing that you have info you can share to someone who’s not privy to it is not the same as having an intellectual superiority complex lol.
@@Alulim-Eridu yeah, how dare he destroy those nations for practicing child sacrifice and sexual perversion! And then he only gave them 400 years to repent of it! Wicked!
@@Alulim-Eridu hey, read the fictional sign in the heavens described in Rev 12. Then research what actually happened with the constellations on 9/23/2017
@@fishouttawtr I'd rather not waste my time & delude myself! It wouldn't even be impressive if there was some correct information in the bible, about the position of the stars,or something like that. There's tons of reasons why that would be entirely unimpressive. Especially since the date 9/23/2017 is never mentioned in the bible. The Babylonians were able to predict the positions & movements of the stars. And the bible is made up of a lot of stuff just stollen from Babylonian texts & mythology. So why would what happened on 9/23/2017 be impressive at all?
Regarding choosing the Pizza, Tom mentioned that you’d choose from a previous decision or a random choice. Tom in this logic keeps kicking the can down the road of where the decision originates from.
Aron and TJump contradicted each other multiple times. Also James constantly cuts Cliff and Stuart off and doesn’t stop Aron from from cutting Cliff and Stuart off. That’s irritating. I appreciated Cliff and Stuart’s patience.
I love the debate I just really hate how James keeps cutting them off, I would rather hear deeper on each topic than hear one side of many different questions.
Y’all wanna know something miraculous I was going to quit my job because I didn’t make enough money I was making minimum wage in California. I prayed and talked to my fiancé about finding a new job with even just a dollar more per hour and I’d be happy. I didn’t want to quit my job because I loved it but didn’t make enough money. About 2 weeks later my boss tells me he wants me working more hours and that he’s going to bump me up to $14 bucks an hour. Tell me that this isn’t a Miracle
Is god running out of juice? The employer just probably realized that you were thinking about leaving (it's kind of hard to hide that) and decided to bump up pay to keep you.
I wish they would bring up the fact we can watch electrons firing in the brain under an MRI while people are making decisions. We can see the process in motion. We can see the difference between a psychopath and a normal person. We can see where empathy comes from in the brain.
I feel for Aron. Let's pray he finds Jesus and repents. I'm struggling to understand the point of being a (lack for a better term) professional atheist. There's no point in spreading pointlessness. As a Christian I can respect a muslim for preaching his or her faith because they ultimately believe they have eternal life to offer, but atheists have nothing to offer but their own pride and intellect. They offer nothing to the people they preach to.
@@derekrush3116 This is actually more of a scientific claim than an atheist's one. To me though this is more reasonable than an all powerfull, sentient, conscious being creating himself and us out of nothing.
I can't understand the atheist's position, Tjump was saying we don't have a soul because a tumor can cause a person to act a certain way, hence that person isn't responsible for their actions, implying that our actions are determined by our physical brains, but at the same time he claims we have free will, but neither of them explained how that is possible, if what they say is true then our brains are basically like a computer program making calculations based on the programming of each individuals brain, and you don't send a computer program to jail when it does something bad, you try to reprogram it Also the tumor example doesn't mean there isn't a soul, if you take the back panel off your TV and start poking at the components you'll eventually mess the picture up, or even break the TV all together, but that doesn't mean the picture on the TV was coming solely from the components in the TV, it was getting the signal from outside the TV.
I think he was saying that our personality can totally change after brain damages. I think you're saying that even if that's the case, it would simply be interference with the soul? I don't see the objection with free will as it's a different point (I don't even know if both atheist agree on free will). The point about jail is still valid even if you believe that free will doesn't exist : you can still protect others from harm, and give a chance for the offender to change. It's a pragmatic solution.
@@fr3d42 Its not that its interfering with the soul, its just interfering with the physical body the soul needs to operate in this physical world, the same way messing with the components on a TV isn't going to mess with the source signal, yes jail makes sense as a way to protect people, but not as a way to rehabilitate the offender, an offender can't really reflect on his actions if he's just a moist robot.
@@fr3d42 If we don't have free will then we're just moist robots, I know the atheists believe they have free will but they can't explain how, our personality is part of our soul, but as I said before the soul needs the physical body in this physical world, just like a broadcast signal needs a TV, the soul needs a brain to operate our physical body.
@@benjy288 Well is it possible to be an atheist and still believe in free will? Do you accept those people exist? Do yoy know that there are some theists that do not believe in free will? Would it be possible to have the illusion of free will even if free will itself doesn't exist? Can you steelman this position?
@@TravisBickle0312 I think what he's saying is that scientists test for the existence of miracles, which uh no we don't. If we proved miracles existed through the scientific method then it would stop being a miracle. The free will side I think he doesn't understand that either. Aaron does go off on how we don't have free will but in truth that's more of a philosophical question than a scientific one. However we do understand that our brains react to stimuli and that's what drives us. The problem comes from if we were in the same situation with the same knowledge could we react differently? I say no but again that's not a science thing, that's a philosophy thing.
Your experiences in life influence the kinds of decisions you’ll make going forward. So many people in the comments section don’t seem to understand this...
Aaron as usual dumps his oppinions without evidence. Thanks Aron ironically for sharing your beliefs. No doubt in my mind, humans are not robots or animals, but higher in design and capability able to imagine and create, design and invent. Humans are body, soul and spirit. We hunger in all areas. We hunger for food, we hunger for knowledge and understanding and we hunger for depth of purpose and meaning in the afterlife. We are triune like the creator God. Jesus Christ.
We are animals, science has proved that we are apes, we evolved over millennia which can be proved, can you demonstrate that we were made by a magical being
@@bulkster1000 even if you were given perfect evidence, which you have been, you still wouldn’t believe....”Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You. Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” You are just as blind as those in Jesus’ time. Jesus could stand right in front of you and speak to you and you would still demand proof. How ignorant you are. May He open your eyes.
I would suggest you look more into what Aaron says. He is extremely well-read, and speaks quite eloquently on these topics if not a little strident at times. He presents a perspective that is very easy to follow and understand. If you are able to get past his obvious disdain for religion , there's a lot that you can learn from his perspective. Cheers.
@@bulldawgmoore6584Hi ^_^ this "even if" line is thrown around so commonly in such conversations. I don't understand why Believers say this. First of all, I'm not certain what evidence would be required to convince me that there is a God. Secondly, given the description of the god that Believers often propose and promote, it's fair to imagine that the god that they describe should indeed be able to provide evidence that would convince me specifically. Third, I am not yet convinced that this God has tried. Fourth, and final point, I'm still waiting. And, 5th and really final, how would you yourself know about an individual non-believer not believing when some evidence is demonstrated? That is a very bold and unfair assertion. I personally have changed my mind about many many things. The existence of Santa Claus being one, the existence of God being a second one, the fact-based reality of evolutionary theory by natural selection, and even begrudgingly, the usefulness and positive value of some of Donald Trump's initiatives. I can't choose what to believe, but I come to accept what I believe when compelled to do so based on evidence, irrespective of how I may feel about the proposition. So, go on, go tell your God that I like surprises and I'm looking forward to that evidence.
Wow, the Christians in this debate could only resort to repeating themselves or just saying "my personal experience tells me this," which are either not evidence or really bad evidence. TJump did great by presenting actual data to show that human behavior is easily explained by the material, though I can't really say much about Aron since he really just got angry. Overall, atheists definitely won.
Cliff and Stuart, love your Videos God bless you both and your households. I really enjoy watching these types of discussions. I ask you both to please pray for my Brother and I. We have been struggling with old sin that came back into our life's... I hate to have to admit that it’s embarrassing and shameful. we’ve been working on it and progressively getting better but more prayer will help. I hope to see you guys in the kingdom. Jesus is king of kings and Lord of lords God bless.
Aron asked the fundamental question of providing a tangible piece of evidence for a soul and it's a good question but like Cliffe said, if chemicals are just firing in your head, you have no free will. There's a chain reaction of chemical movement telling you to move your arm to drink some water. Chemicals being self aware of itself and its own function is too odd for me to wrap my head around. Chemicals putting itself in harms way to protect someone you love or blocking 'messages' from other chemicals (instincts as Cliffe said) that perpetuate your 'physical' reason for living (hormones telling you to mate with as many people as possible or to kill someone who might be mean to you) gives these reactions a nature not so easily explained by just the physical, especially when you consider almost all other chemical reactions can be repeated with the same or very similar reactions every time like a robot. It's just what I get out of this and why I believe we aren't just physical. I have a very difficult time thinking it's all chemical reaction. I can't prove for a soul but I can understand through this reasoning why it makes the most sense.
It can be a very hard thing to wrap your head around yes, but then again so is how a computer works. A computer turning electricity into the very thing we use to communicate is a very complicated thing. At the end of the day it's nothing more than just physical components making our digital world. Does that mean computers have souls too? We even have a way to get computers to start making their own decisions at this point in time, and even have a personality if we let it grow. Does that mean it has a soul? We found a way to get computers to mimic how our brains work, and therefore can learn, grow and even become sentient at some point if all the pieces fall into the right place.
@@ForgedinPrint The analogy is only ever meant to be an analogy, not a comparison. Yes everything in a computer is physical (electricity and whatnot) and we understand the program because we designed it. AI does not make its own decisions nor does it have a personality; it uses randomly generated numbers through an algorithm to make it seem like it has a personality but spend 5 minutes with it and you'll see how shallow it is. While much of human behavior is physical chemical, not everything is. Love, logic, justice, morality, ethics, among other things are immeasurable immaterial. Seems more logical to me to believe in a God who gave us souls rather than sentient lifeforms with perfect structure generated by an extremely chaotic and deteriorating universe.
@@outseteddy6306 Love is a chemical reaction logic, justice, morality and ethics are all subjective things. Love we literally can fuck with chemically. All the other things once we change the chemical balance in the brain those change too, it's just a little more complicated.
@@ForgedinPrint I agree, at least from your point of view, those things are subjective EXCEPT logic, but the point is these things exist not physically and cannot be measured. Regardless of the chemicals in our body, the logic of 2+2=4 will alway be true. How do you measure logic, justice, etc. physically if ALL of our world is purely material? You can give and receive love freely. I do not deny much of it is chemical, but I don't believe it all is. I don't know you but I love you where I wouldn't want you hurt and if I knew your life was in danger I'd try to prevent it. This benefits me biologically in no real way yet it is true. There are people out there who have laid down their lives to protect strangers. Like I said this is just how I'm seeing it and why I believe more than just the physical (these reasons and many more). It's an interesting concept and I can understand the reason you believe it to be solely physical.
@@outseteddy6306 I had misspoken on the subjective part, I meant that they are human constructs. I don't know what crack I was snorting when I said that. That being said it's fine if you think they have some immaterial property, in fact I encourage that. It means you give it value. Just remember that these values are all your own, no one else gave it to you. I brought up that we can mess with it because if they were divine we wouldn't be able to actually mess with it on the scale that we can.
you all probably dont care but does anybody know of a tool to log back into an instagram account?? I stupidly forgot my account password. I would love any tips you can give me.
@Rex Dominic thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Tjump: we can literally see the things you visually see with your minds. Wow...really!???...can they literally see the things we visually see in our minds????...I mean our memories and thoughts???
Neh, he doesn`t need help, he just needs to be kicked out next time when he starting to show disrespect. He's arrogant and dishonest. With a man such as this, you can`t debate something. Aron enters the arena with a mindset that he's already right and everybody is wrong. That's not a debate, it's a joke.
Aron appears to be sick of listening to people who dont understand simple human biology it annoys me too that the religious argument is we think there is a soul so there is until you have a better explanation of consciousness. Leading scientists do not fully understand consciousness therefore god did it is not an argument it is giving up on understanding reality.
@@matthewoborne1649 *"simple human biology"* Are you serious or trolling? The cell is the most complex and most elegantly designed system man has ever witnessed. "To grasp the reality of life as it has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a thousand million times until it is twenty kilometers in diameter and resembles a giant airship large enough to cover a great city like London or New York. What we would then see would be an object of unparalleled complexity and adaptive design. On the surface of the cell, we would see millions of openings, like port holes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of materials to flow in and out. If we were to enter one of these openings we would find ourselves in a world of supreme technology and bewildering complexity... (a complexity) beyond our own creative capacities, a reality which is the very antithesis of chance, which excels in every sense anything produced by the intelligence of man..." says Michael Denton, professor of biology. So, don`t dare to say human biology is simple when just ONE SINGLE cell blows everyone's mind, even the most sophisticated and intelligent scientists can not fully grasp its complexity. When it comes to life, everything is COMPLICATED and EXTREMELY COMPLEX! Nothing is simple in what we call life. The only reason we have evolutionists is that they are looking at reality from a very,, very, very limited and superficial perspective. Life is MORE than dead matter. Just one tiny cell destroys anything you can call "random" "chance" "blind process".
@@fr3d42 They are different. But it’s a very subtle difference. “I trust, based on his good character, that he will return what he borrowed.” This is *faith* that comes from a *belief* about a person. That’s the best I can explain it. I think the confusion comes from misnomers, where one word is substituted for another (originally to shortcut speech). I.E. when you say ‘I believe’, you’re often inferring faith based on your belief, because the two have become almost interchangeable. I say ‘almost’ because it doesn’t always work, and, when it does work, it can still be misleading or confusing. Ludwig Wittgenstein - “Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of our language.”
@@somerandom7672 This is very interesting. The two words are often interchanged and the definition isn't always clear. To me belief is not a choice, I am compelled by reasons to believe, if there is new information I have no choice to change my belief. Faith is a choice, it is blind trust in something I have no good reason to believe. I totally understand Aron position that he does not have faith in his life, I feel the same.
The sort of definition of faith that you are importing here does not necessarily lead to a belief in a God. It is not fair to reduce the word faith to just simply definitions that relate to religion and spirituality. Sometimes we use the word faith as a more colourful way to express that we trust someone. But that trust is expressed based on demonstrable values. And we are using the word faith in that context more colloquially. when we use the word belief, it is usually when we have high confidence in a proposal or idea based on a gut feeling or an intuition, but usually it is an absence of evidence for that proposal. That's not to say there is anything wrong with that of course, so long as your belief is not imposed on others. But, again, colloquially we can use the word belief to imply Trust. This is just how our language Works in English. Cheers, and happy New Year.
Andrew, this is the fate for anyone who chooses to reject Christ. Without God you grow bitter, resentful, feel entitled to everything, and when you dont get it , you take on the victim mentality and things just snowball from there.
@@csmoviles your afirmation can't be further from the truth; Here what you're saying "since there are people who don't believe what I believe and doesn't worship my imaginay friend, then i'll assume that they're just resentful and bitter because they don't think how I think" yeah, very very wise, isn't it ?
@@phantomse24 Hold my ice cream…. Get ready to have your mind blown! ruclips.net/video/Fk4DBscVoYw/видео.html ruclips.net/video/TQQsb5H3xLI/видео.html ruclips.net/video/BGjdYLVuiL8/видео.html ruclips.net/video/tEc4J7Xdzmg/видео.html
I didn't see the game where Rafa embarrassed his team by; tripping on his laces, & accidentally kicking himself in the nuts as he stumbled. I'll have to rewatch that
Thats funny, so if churches are interested in truth why do they ask for money and why are there preachers that are loaded, BECAUSE PEOPLE GAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY ASKED FOR
@@bany512 hi. But those Christians will disagree with you, that they are in fact real Christians and they need the funds to keep the lights on and to keep their Outreach going. All that aside, I'm wondering what you think of the rest of the presentation by the atheists. Cheers.
@@ntr10me well, I find the whole moral relativism very dangerous, mainly because I used to fully embrace it, before coming to Christ, and so I know where it leads, very well. Also, science never was or will be prescriptive and will always be only descriptive, which also takes away a lot of of their arguments. What is your opinion about the discussion ?
@@bany512 Hey, Peter. 1 Science seems like the most reliable method for determining the demonstrability of claims as well as the fact-based nature of things 2 though I see the value in having labels for things like moral relativism, etc..., and I can understand and respect why atheists need them to categorize certain experiences, I tend to stay away from them as they are always too loaded. 3 Though I find AronRa far too strident in his views, he's excellent at communicating his perspective ...well, when he's not importing RUclips-esque snark into the mix. His way of looking at things is very reliable on his channel and extremely thoughtful. 4 TJump is very enjoyable to listen to, even if I don't completely understand his perspective on some things fully. He comes at topics very thoughtfully, and... 5 ...like most atheists that I interact with, he approaches all of these claims from a bottom-up perspective. This is one of inquiry and curiosity and healthy skepticism. 6 Theists tend to operate from a top-down structure - this is how it is, our god has so declared it. 7 Cliff is by far one of the most unreliable debaters on such issues. Though he presents himself as listening, he is in fact just a 'sender' not a 'receiver' in these discussions. Though I'm sure he's probably a likeable fellow, he doesn't strike me as someone I could have a helpful or useful discussion with. Sorry, for the ramble. Feel free to respond to any of the points above. Cheers
Their is something more than matter and energy ? What is energy , proove it in showing it. A spark ore lightning is not prove of energy. If we are creatures , why do other creatures have no creativity like humans. Only humans overcome what thy are not capable. Example: we are not fish, but we build submarines. We can not fly , we build plains , weapons , ....... What creature of all the other 1000s can do it , Do we have the same Spirit as them ?
It's an interesting thought! whether you believe in god or not, the existence of free will is a very interesting subject. Even if there is no free will, is the fact that we don't know the causes of our actions, that we cannot predict the future gives us the illusion of free will?
@@steeltown825 That's what I'm talking about. If there is objectively no free will, we would still have the illusion of it because we are not all knowing. To anwser your question from my point of view, with my very limited knowledge, yes I did choose to write it. But someone all knowing could show me all the reasons why I did it. Do you see my point?
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 faith by definition is the absolute trust or confidence in something or someone. So when they were debating the topic and cliff brung up the “stop light” analogy. They denied it being faith. faith isn’t because supernatural. So yes all atheist have faith. Everyone has faith in something or another. Hur dur
@@Crayola170Faith is a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof. Soooo basically Aron has no faith in anything. You confuse faith with trust. Faith is surrendering your rational faculties to a doctrine.
@@davidlarsen1981 there are like 6 more definitions ... well, why aren't we surprised you cherry-picked the one that suits your faith the most. One of the definition states: firm belief in something for which there is no proof; the other: something that is believed especially with strong convictions; just one more: complete trust. Any of these would be highly characteristic of the atheistic faith.
At 1:06 was that claim that Walls came from Bricks, as a argument for that rationality can came from the irrationality! What a bad Point! Both find that argument so good that they repeat it. Ok guys, then show us how you get a Wall from Bricks without a rational human.
@@Kman. Did I say that? I also disagree with him on saying there is absolutely “no god.” I don’t believe there is a way for anyone to prove he exists or not. But I believe it’s highly probable that a god does not exist. And if one does, which one? You’d have to show conclusive evidence for said god. Otherwise we’d be in the same position we started in. Ignorance. You seem to be putting words in my mouth, which I hope is unintentional. When you assume, you make an ASS out of yourself. So be careful and ask questions instead of assuming my answer.
@@TheFirstAtom if he's tired of listening then maybe he should just focus on his sole beliefs and stop debating anything God related. He doesn't seem like an atheist, just someone who believes God exists but hates him
the best part is to just correct them when you see they are wrong, and when they reply (if they do) just correct them on that in a cold and logical way. I actually had one person say that my dad was calling them, so I just left how lust was a sin. No response after that.
In age and feebleness extreme, Who shall a helpless worm redeem? Jesus, my only hope Thou art, Strength of my failing flesh and heart: O could I catch one smile from Thee, And drop into eternity! Charles Wesley
@@R3DASH09 do you really think that Ashley? Don't you want to think for yourself? What is more interesting, the actual reason the sky looks that way or just saying "God did it"?
@@darryl5372 You actually can't fight your desires. The struggling alcoholic is fighting contradicting desires, one to drink and one to get away from drinks. That guy with a gun to his head has the desire to protect his daughter, but also has the desire to live. You always have desires guiding you, it's just sometimes those desires contradict one another.
@@darryl5372that is a theological question more than a science one. At the end of the day though it's a war between desires. These desires can also be messed with as well, or example drugs. N
It's unfortunate that people do not acknowledge that the biblical definition of faith includes evidence. The bible does not teach a faith void of evidence. Faith without evidence is biblically foolish. I still would like to know how supposedly rational people can draw the conclusion that information can come from or be sourced in nonintelligence. DNA contains information. It is rational to entertain the idea that rocks(nonintelligence) created DNA? That seems to be what the so-called "emerging properties" theory basically suggests.
Don't give up!! It's important to stay with the confusion until you at least understand the main points of contention(if they are there). What made you tap out? Btw in jiu jitsu we tap out and immediately continue rolling again.
Keep watching and listening! The more of these dialogues you listen to the more you will begin to understand what is being said. And it’s so important! I am not a smart person and still very much enjoy these videos because I’m hungry for knowledge and truth!
Cliff: "Rationality does not come from matter and energy, it comes from a mind" Aron Ra: "Yes it does" Aron needs to reflect on the notion of the mind... hopefully that will help him stay in the present moment in these debates and not get "angry". I think we all would like to see Aron Ra become a better "atheist" (assuming you believe in that notion) as this would enable people like Cliff, and Stuart, to be challenged. Otherwise... the debate ends up being pathetic because the criticisms provided by the "atheists" are not useful enough to cast doubt on anything and the "truths" that are shared by Cliff and Stuart are so self-evident that they can only be "miss-characterized" and "emotionalized" by the doubts... My suggestion... both sides need a skewb. Start cubing and you will see with content improve drastically.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Thanks for reading. I'm shocked anyone read it. I appreciate your feedback and I will certainly consider implementing it into my next comment. All the best!
That is literally just stress. Doesn’t take a genius to find this stuff out. The internet is available to you, try using it. “When the body has a stress response there are changes that occur within the body in order to protect itself when in danger, which is what the body thinks is happening. The change that causes the feeling of chest tightness is the muscles of the body contracting and tightening”
Y'all considered Writing your Comment, on Toilet Paper, Eating it and Blowing it, out, your ass. The Power Of Crap compels you. A Bowelful of Crap compels you.
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1:22:35 " I have no presuppositions at all....I think, therefore I am and then build my knowledge of reality off of that..." The failure and irony of TJumps statement is that he is assuming that the tools he is using to build his understanding of reality are reliable and trustworthy to begin with. He uses his 5 senses (the tools) to interact with the observable world around him. They allow the transmission of data in which he then can interpret the data presented to him via his senses. So in order for Tjump to understand his reality he has to trust that the tools he was provided with will reliably transmit information accurately. However, these 5 senses are prone to error and are limited in nature.
I'm replying to this before I've even watched the video: It's called determinism (and sometimes causal determinism) and is very interesting - do look it up and have a good long read. I find it more plausible than free will. I can immediately poke holes in free will by pointing out the limitations of any particular individual's circumstances, knowledge, hormonal state and/or cognitive ability. It's much harder to argue with determinism. You're pretty much stuck with "but I don't wanna!"
Aron in saying something is wrong admits an existence of a right which contradicts his own position he’s simply rebelling against God, atheism is simply choosing to deny true right.
As science often deals with things that are concrete and measurable, it would probably have more to do with houses asserting that there is a soul Define what a soul is, how it can be detected, and so on. Based on that description, scientists can develop strategies, tests, to determine whether such assertions are based in reality or not. It is not incumbent upon scientists to demonstrate that something is real or not based on other people's assertions when those assertions are based initially on subjective claims. Any thoughts? Cheers.
Did you listen to aron or thump? They gave quite a few examples. Reacting emotionally to these types of questions is childish. How about the whole tumor example?
I’ll start by saying I’m a Christian, but I think that the argument the atheists were making is that mind and emotions can be proven in the physical world which does not really help Cliffe and Stuart’s argument. I believe a soul exists, I can’t explain what it is in physical words because physical words is all I have to express what’s in my mind, so I would leave it at the soul is an immaterial thing given by God that in a non-material way connects us to God and to people. A soul is something that we experience within ourselves and with other people and the result of these connections and “motor(s)” of the soul come about in both an immaterial way we cannot fully experience and in a material way we can experience such as in finding a significant other. Just my own thoughts
The issue with TJump's analogy about the walls at 1:05:50 is that the brick and walls are not contradictory. The bricks and the wall are both operated under the same laws of logic. The brick is the building blocks of the wall So the essence of the wall are bricks. However, to say rationality comes from irrationality is erroneous because they are contradictory. Rationality does not spring forth from irrationality. To use Tjump's analogy, his rationale behind rationality springing forth from irrationality is like suggesting that a solid wall can spring forth from the gaseous state of air. They are completely contradictory. You cannot build a solid wall from the gaseous state of air. Side note, the wall is only a wall because human beings superimposed a meaning and purpose to the compiling, organizing and the arrangement of the bricks. Without human beings imposing a purpose to the specific and intended organization of the bricks, the bricks ceases to be described as a wall and it loses all of its meaning. The purpose and meaning was ascribed to the wall by humans. The consequence is the same when stripping God out of your worldview. The human being ceases to have meaning. They cease to have purpose. They are simply just in a state of being waiting to expire. What makes it worst is all the memories, achievements, and accomplishment that seemingly out live you will eventually fade out into oblivion thus showing you that life is meaningless without God.
@@boblarson7694You can never understand because you're an unbelieving heart. I'm not surprised the commenter you responded to didn't bother to elucidate.
What is a brick if not a tiny wall XD... But seriously, he is not talking about physical items but something different. Living things do not come from nonliving, just like justice cannot come from injustice, love from hatred, or equality form inequality.
@@fr3d42 the argument is an intelligent mind created life on earth. Even if we make proteins in a lab that have the potential of creating life, that still shows life came from a mind. Does that make sense?
@@DCice13 Yes I understand your point: we (humans) haven't yet been able to create abiogenesis. I agree that's a fact. My point is: Did god create life from non life? The stuff we're made from isn't special, it exists as non life around us, do you get my point?
@@fr3d42 if I recall his argument, it was life is only created by other life. if there is a being that created us, we need to ask what being and using what process. It can be aliens, so then who created them? But assuming the Bible is true, we are told God formed us from non-life, but breathed into us life. Physical we were made of non-life, but God provided us a spirit that gave our shell a life.
@@DCice13 Now we understand each other better. It seems more plausible to me that life emerged from a mindless natural process, you think it's more plausible that it was created from an eternal mind. What do you mean by 'breathing life into us'? Do you mean that if we had the means to duplicate a human to the last atom, it wouldn't be alive?
While Cliff and Stuart are AMAZING guys!!!.... I also acknowledge they DESPERATELY NEED TO BE TAUGHT BY Dr. James White, Tim Challies, Justin Peter's, Paul Washer, Jeff Durbin and Charles Spurgeon... Love you guys.
Yeah, I don’t know about any of those other thinkers, but I do know Spurgeon, and I’ve listened to Cliffe Knechtle for hours. I have no idea why you think the Knechtles need to read Spurgeon’s writings? I’d guess Cliffe knows full well who Spurgeon was. Seems like the Knechtles know their scriptures pretty well. Perhaps better than you, Jeremy?
I became somewhat suspicious of Dr James White when I noticed that he had an unreasonable bias towards Gail Riplinger’s validation of the KJV Bible with her book New Age Bible Versions. There’s something not quite right with him.
This would obviously never be accepted as “proof” or “evidence”; but man. Look at the peace that Cliffe and Stuart have and contrast it to the non believers. If I had never heard of theism or atheism, I’m going to explore theism based solely on Cliffe and Stuart’s patience and rationality.
Cliffe and Stuart were the only ones making claims, Tom and Aron did not make any claims only rebutted the claims Cliffe and Stuart were making which is pretty freaking easy to do. The only claim you could say T and A made is that we are simply molecules but never explained how these molecules were actually designed. The metaphor about the wall that Tom needs to explain is who made the formula to create the wall? Just like a cook makes a specific formula/recipe for a meal, if you add too much or too little of something that completely ruins the final product. TJump and Aron need to answer who or what designs the wall, the meal, the universe and consciousness.
Actually they do. It also why men have an urge to do dirty things. Hormones. You are naive and insecure so you try to express yourself through conformation bias. All explainable with evolution.
If the words coming out of your mouth are just the product of evolution and were predetermined entirely by a causal chain of physical events I have no reason to believe they are true or not. What is the chemical compound of truth? If all of this is just matter and energy/macroevolution a man raping and killing a woman is no different than some giant rocks falling onto her, as well as your reaction to it and your choice about how to deal with it is no different than the wind blowing. I sincerely doubt that you live your life consistent with that line of thinking.
Aaron shows you why believing in God is better because if you have no God you just become darker without the recognition, just look at the different auras each person gives off, I don’t think its a coincidence, Jump seems like a good person but his views on the world limit himself and his true potential, if everything was just physical we wouldn’t as humans have the gift to manifest news creations from the realm of thought, we like to look at the neurological activity as what’s actually happening in our minds but when observing the neurotransmitters as complex as it is that is just the surface of what the mind is actually experiencing, when u observe the quantum activity of anything things get more unpredictable because thats where conscious things lay at, it doesn’t follow patterns we recognize because certain activities makes it’s own decisions just like we do, we’ll never be able to meet measures up with what makes this reality real because then you would have to be coming in and out of time which we kinda are doing without our control ....so we will find our answers just not in this time 🌌
It is clear to see...The wise speak from wisdom, The simpleminded use laptops and Apple iPhone 11 Pro. “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Well... that's silly. The illness itself is the fact that you believe that you're just a pile of matter. Explain to me why only humans can have free will, consciousness, reason, self-awareness, emerged from materialism? If this is true, is not supposed that all living biological bodies could have this? Like in a cartoon where the animals act like humans? Watch Zootopia, Madagascar, Ice Age, etc... If this were true, that our self could emerge from pure materialism, then we would have animals like in those cartoons, able to reason being self-aware. Well. Guess what, when you wake up from your own fantasy, the reality is different. You will never see a dog waking up in one morning and starting to contemplate its own existence and place in this universe. A dog, even though is so intelligent, can NOT be self-aware. Why?
You guys need to step up your game and get better debate opponents... no wonder "new" atheists are considered a hindrance rather than advancing the philosophical debate. I love a good debate, but all I saw here was a lot of butthurt and eye-rolling.
I think this os what you get these days. The likes of Thomas Nagle, Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, etc do not exist anymore. It could also be that science is proving more and more, the idea of a transcendent being so the big hitting academics are withdrawing from the game.
@@zamundalion I think you're very mistaken in that assumption " It could also be that science is proving more and more, the idea of a transcendent being so the big hitting academics are withdrawing from the game.". I would highly suggest you read the book The Devils Delusion.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 i never made assumptions about Arons personality... I made a presumtion based on his arrogance. After watching a video that goes for almost 2 hours, its pretty easy to determine whats his personality is like.
"Why can't we choose! Because you don't have a will of your own. We do have a will!!! No you don't. Matter and energy determins our will!" Thats why you can't choose/have your own will. Because Matter and Energy chooses. Not you. That's kinda the point 😐
That literally doesn't make no sense whatsoever. Matter and energy isn't making me write this comment. I chose to write this comment so thefore I used my will. Matter and energy can't decide your choices, it's not alive and it's not intelligent. So I don't get where you guys get that matter and energy decides our actions, that literally makes 0 sense. To say that something that isn't alive and isn't intelligent decides our very decisions is mad. You might as well say. well geez that dude who shot up the school, it wasn't his fault. He didn't choose to do it, it was matter and energy that made him do it.
@@davidthornton3597 EXACTLY!!! Thats what we are saying, verbatim the Atheist guy is saying that, and its crazy when you draw it out to it's logical conclusion. We are in agreement there.
What's your brain made of? Although, reading some of this crap, maybe I shouldn't just assume you actually have a brain. (But for those who do have a brain... Brains are made of matter & energy)
There have been very few people that I have ever encountered who I would say they are beyond salvation because of the hardening of their heart but Aron Ra is one of those people . It’s going to be very interesting on the day that he stands before the Lord . His arrogant and angry continence will be humbled on that day.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 First, you used a double negative. You used "don't" twice in one sentence. Second, your statement made no point, at all.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 All you're doing is asserting Tom is right and I'm misunderstanding, without giving any basis as to why or how. Hence, it's a pointless comment. It's just your biased opinion.
Cliffe needs a crash course in logic. Choice is not infinite; we simply make a choice from limited options at each instance, and nobody chose to ‘like’ pizza, or anything for that matter, you simply have a higher than likely probability to choose the things you are hardwired to like. The Red Queen effect comes into play that determines choice in a world out to kill you. The stoics debated ethics way before anyone even uttered the word Christ and therefore predates Christian morality for choices that impact others.
When the atheists say "They are just chemicals" they immediately lost the debate. It was brilliant that Cliffe and Stuart hit hard on that atheist error when they heard it. Chemical reactions do not lead to Objective truth. Also the atheists are presuppositional materialists not giving any arguments that we only have a material world. Yet Cliffe and Stuart gave arguments that are so self evident that nobody can deny we have choice. We sincerely need to pray for those atheists as atheism is driving them mad.
Cliff: Your self is a soul, the real you that is making choices and reasoning. Aron: I know that we make choices and reasons. That fits into our perspective. Show us this other thing that is not within our perspective. If they could explain from the first place what they understand and what they mean what they say the word "soul", the debate would have ended sooner and Aron wouldn't have to keep asking for proof or evidence of this other "thing", that he wants them to provide evidence for.
Someone should inform Aaron that his yelling and use of explatives does not make his arguments any more persuasive nor ellicit the sense that people are communicating with a rational individual. It would be interesting to see if that behavior led people to discontinue their monetary support for Aaron.
I have 0 respect for tjump Bc all he does is read off biased sources from google, he never debates off memory. Also, Aron ra is rude and only throws insults
@@170221dn Faith has multiple definitions, another one is complete trust, eg... when you get on a plane you have faith that the people who put it together knew what they were doing, I bet you wouldn't get on that plane if you were told it was put together by monkeys.
Aron looks like a disney villain
💀💀💀💀
The demon can never remain hidden
The only ones not cursing or downgrading the opponents are Cliffe and Stuart.
The difference is that they're frustratingly wrong and the atheists aren't.
@@aspacelex no I think the difference is the Christians don’t have such blatant intellectual superiority complex’s, just the looks on their faces say a lot
@@33Cigarettes The key word is frustratingly. It's not a complex when it's reasonable.
@@33Cigarettes
If Christians didn't have blatant intellectual superiority complexes; then maybe, they should stop trying to convert everyone to their God.
@@jackalsgate1146 those are two different things, believing that you have info you can share to someone who’s not privy to it is not the same as having an intellectual superiority complex lol.
WE ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR ACTIONS...
WE ARE NOT ACCOUNTABLE FOR OUR CHOICES...
if satan could write the rules!!!
🤣🤣🤣
In the Bible,
the fictional character of God, is far more evil, & far more immoral
...than the fictional character "Satan"!
@@Alulim-Eridu yeah, how dare he destroy those nations for practicing child sacrifice and sexual perversion! And then he only gave them 400 years to repent of it! Wicked!
@@Alulim-Eridu hey, read the fictional sign in the heavens described in Rev 12. Then research what actually happened with the constellations on 9/23/2017
@@fishouttawtr
I'd rather not waste my time
& delude myself!
It wouldn't even be impressive if there was some correct information in the bible, about the position of the stars,or something like that.
There's tons of reasons why that would be entirely unimpressive.
Especially since the date 9/23/2017 is never mentioned in the bible.
The Babylonians were able to predict the positions & movements of the stars.
And the bible is made up of a lot of stuff just stollen from Babylonian texts & mythology.
So why would what happened on 9/23/2017 be impressive at all?
Regarding choosing the Pizza, Tom mentioned that you’d choose from a previous decision or a random choice. Tom in this logic keeps kicking the can down the road of where the decision originates from.
Aron and TJump contradicted each other multiple times. Also James constantly cuts Cliff and Stuart off and doesn’t stop Aron from from cutting Cliff and Stuart off. That’s irritating. I appreciated Cliff and Stuart’s patience.
I love the debate I just really hate how James keeps cutting them off, I would rather hear deeper on each topic than hear one side of many different questions.
I agree with you. The problem is time.
1:45:43 summarizes this entire debate very well. Thanks to the debaters! Bless you all, Robert
Y’all wanna know something miraculous I was going to quit my job because I didn’t make enough money I was making minimum wage in California. I prayed and talked to my fiancé about finding a new job with even just a dollar more per hour and I’d be happy. I didn’t want to quit my job because I loved it but didn’t make enough money. About 2 weeks later my boss tells me he wants me working more hours and that he’s going to bump me up to $14 bucks an hour. Tell me that this isn’t a Miracle
😂😂
You equate getting more hours and a raise at work with a miracle.?
Is god running out of juice? The employer just probably realized that you were thinking about leaving (it's kind of hard to hide that) and decided to bump up pay to keep you.
No, it isn't a miracle at all, you need to have more critical thinking.
You asked and you recieved, Glory be to God.
I wish they would bring up the fact we can watch electrons firing in the brain under an MRI while people are making decisions. We can see the process in motion. We can see the difference between a psychopath and a normal person. We can see where empathy comes from in the brain.
I feel for Aron. Let's pray he finds Jesus and repents.
I'm struggling to understand the point of being a (lack for a better term) professional atheist. There's no point in spreading pointlessness. As a Christian I can respect a muslim for preaching his or her faith because they ultimately believe they have eternal life to offer, but atheists have nothing to offer but their own pride and intellect. They offer nothing to the people they preach to.
They offer reason, which is the only thing protecting you from the dangers of religion. View them as fact checkers preventing misinformation.
@@catposter2361 Is it reasonable to believe nothing made everything out of nothing?
@@derekrush3116 This is actually more of a scientific claim than an atheist's one. To me though this is more reasonable than an all powerfull, sentient, conscious being creating himself and us out of nothing.
"There's no point in spreading pointlessnes
@@boblarson7694 My point exactly
Protect the Knechtle's at all costs! Much love ❤🙏🏾
Protect? Why do you choose the word protect? Why are they so important?
@@jaalkvartir6909 The Power of their Bullshit compels you. The Power of their Bullshit compels you. The Power of.....is that a.......it is!
Believers & non believers are just wired differently, doesn’t stop what is truth either way
Yes.... The truth is always the truth. Believe it or not.
Aron doesn't sound like he doesn't believe God. Sounds more like he hates him.
He just hates the shit that's flying out of the creationists mouths.
Which god is the one he hates?
He’s a member of the Satanic Temple. He is required to hate the Creator.
Aron Ra, love your temper tantrums, reminds me of my 5 year old nephew.
I can't understand the atheist's position, Tjump was saying we don't have a soul because a tumor can cause a person to act a certain way, hence that person isn't responsible for their actions, implying that our actions are determined by our physical brains, but at the same time he claims we have free will, but neither of them explained how that is possible, if what they say is true then our brains are basically like a computer program making calculations based on the programming of each individuals brain, and you don't send a computer program to jail when it does something bad, you try to reprogram it
Also the tumor example doesn't mean there isn't a soul, if you take the back panel off your TV and start poking at the components you'll eventually mess the picture up, or even break the TV all together, but that doesn't mean the picture on the TV was coming solely from the components in the TV, it was getting the signal from outside the TV.
I think he was saying that our personality can totally change after brain damages. I think you're saying that even if that's the case, it would simply be interference with the soul?
I don't see the objection with free will as it's a different point (I don't even know if both atheist agree on free will).
The point about jail is still valid even if you believe that free will doesn't exist : you can still protect others from harm, and give a chance for the offender to change.
It's a pragmatic solution.
@@fr3d42 Its not that its interfering with the soul, its just interfering with the physical body the soul needs to operate in this physical world, the same way messing with the components on a TV isn't going to mess with the source signal, yes jail makes sense as a way to protect people, but not as a way to rehabilitate the offender, an offender can't really reflect on his actions if he's just a moist robot.
@@benjy288 Who is saying anything about moist robots? I don't follow.
What does the soul do exactly if it has nothing to do with personality?
@@fr3d42 If we don't have free will then we're just moist robots, I know the atheists believe they have free will but they can't explain how, our personality is part of our soul, but as I said before the soul needs the physical body in this physical world, just like a broadcast signal needs a TV, the soul needs a brain to operate our physical body.
@@benjy288 Well is it possible to be an atheist and still believe in free will? Do you accept those people exist? Do yoy know that there are some theists that do not believe in free will?
Would it be possible to have the illusion of free will even if free will itself doesn't exist?
Can you steelman this position?
He that is slow to anger is better than the mighty; And he that ruleth his spirit than he that taketh a city. Proverbs 16:32
Happy is he who takes your little one and smashes them to death against the rocks!
Psalm 137 verse 9
Praise the Lord!
Hail Satan! 🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟🤟 666
@@Silver77cyn Wow, a funny Satan reference.
I admire your patience cliff family
"Ok so scientist can test for miracles and there's no free will", I don't know if I could accept that logic.
What?
@@TravisBickle0312 I think what he's saying is that scientists test for the existence of miracles, which uh no we don't. If we proved miracles existed through the scientific method then it would stop being a miracle. The free will side I think he doesn't understand that either. Aaron does go off on how we don't have free will but in truth that's more of a philosophical question than a scientific one. However we do understand that our brains react to stimuli and that's what drives us. The problem comes from if we were in the same situation with the same knowledge could we react differently? I say no but again that's not a science thing, that's a philosophy thing.
Could you accept an Invitation to......Pull my Finger? Please.
If you're religious, you already don't accept logic
Just from reading the comments, this seems to be a debate I don't wanna miss. Saving for later.
It is a good one!
Bullshit/"Magic" vs Reality. Same old same old.
Inspiring Philosophy has a series about evidence for a soul including refuting objections.
It’s a miracle Aron Ra isn’t at a psych ward.
Moderator what the heck are u doing tell this dude to wait his turn smh 🤦♂️
Both sides!
Your experiences in life influence the kinds of decisions you’ll make going forward. So many people in the comments section don’t seem to understand this...
It also changes what chemicals your brain sends out as well, and how tolerant you are of said chemicals.
Aaron as usual dumps his oppinions without evidence. Thanks Aron ironically for sharing your beliefs.
No doubt in my mind, humans are not robots or animals, but higher in design and capability able to imagine and create, design and invent. Humans are body, soul and spirit. We hunger in all areas. We hunger for food, we hunger for knowledge and understanding and we hunger for depth of purpose and meaning in the afterlife. We are triune like the creator God. Jesus Christ.
We are animals, science has proved that we are apes, we evolved over millennia which can be proved, can you demonstrate that we were made by a magical being
@@bulkster1000 even if you were given perfect evidence, which you have been, you still wouldn’t believe....”Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.
Jesus replied, “A wicked and adulterous generation demands a sign, but none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.” You are just as blind as those in Jesus’ time. Jesus could stand right in front of you and speak to you and you would still demand proof. How ignorant you are. May He open your eyes.
I would suggest you look more into what Aaron says. He is extremely well-read, and speaks quite eloquently on these topics if not a little strident at times. He presents a perspective that is very easy to follow and understand. If you are able to get past his obvious disdain for religion , there's a lot that you can learn from his perspective. Cheers.
Good Shepherd, any proof?
@@bulldawgmoore6584Hi ^_^ this "even if" line is thrown around so commonly in such conversations. I don't understand why Believers say this.
First of all, I'm not certain what evidence would be required to convince me that there is a God.
Secondly, given the description of the god that Believers often propose and promote, it's fair to imagine that the god that they describe should indeed be able to provide evidence that would convince me specifically.
Third, I am not yet convinced that this God has tried.
Fourth, and final point, I'm still waiting.
And, 5th and really final, how would you yourself know about an individual non-believer not believing when some evidence is demonstrated? That is a very bold and unfair assertion.
I personally have changed my mind about many many things. The existence of Santa Claus being one, the existence of God being a second one, the fact-based reality of evolutionary theory by natural selection, and even begrudgingly, the usefulness and positive value of some of Donald Trump's initiatives.
I can't choose what to believe, but I come to accept what I believe when compelled to do so based on evidence, irrespective of how I may feel about the proposition.
So, go on, go tell your God that I like surprises and I'm looking forward to that evidence.
Wow, the Christians in this debate could only resort to repeating themselves or just saying "my personal experience tells me this," which are either not evidence or really bad evidence. TJump did great by presenting actual data to show that human behavior is easily explained by the material, though I can't really say much about Aron since he really just got angry. Overall, atheists definitely won.
Cliff and Stuart, love your Videos God bless you both and your households. I really enjoy watching these types of discussions. I ask you both to please pray for my Brother and I. We have been struggling with old sin that came back into our life's... I hate to have to admit that it’s embarrassing and shameful. we’ve been working on it and progressively getting better but more prayer will help. I hope to see you guys in the kingdom. Jesus is king of kings and Lord of lords God bless.
I hear you brother and you have my prayers I know I’m not cliffe but one Christian to another I got u
Zm
Aron asked the fundamental question of providing a tangible piece of evidence for a soul and it's a good question but like Cliffe said, if chemicals are just firing in your head, you have no free will. There's a chain reaction of chemical movement telling you to move your arm to drink some water.
Chemicals being self aware of itself and its own function is too odd for me to wrap my head around. Chemicals putting itself in harms way to protect someone you love or blocking 'messages' from other chemicals (instincts as Cliffe said) that perpetuate your 'physical' reason for living (hormones telling you to mate with as many people as possible or to kill someone who might be mean to you) gives these reactions a nature not so easily explained by just the physical, especially when you consider almost all other chemical reactions can be repeated with the same or very similar reactions every time like a robot.
It's just what I get out of this and why I believe we aren't just physical. I have a very difficult time thinking it's all chemical reaction. I can't prove for a soul but I can understand through this reasoning why it makes the most sense.
It can be a very hard thing to wrap your head around yes, but then again so is how a computer works. A computer turning electricity into the very thing we use to communicate is a very complicated thing. At the end of the day it's nothing more than just physical components making our digital world. Does that mean computers have souls too? We even have a way to get computers to start making their own decisions at this point in time, and even have a personality if we let it grow. Does that mean it has a soul? We found a way to get computers to mimic how our brains work, and therefore can learn, grow and even become sentient at some point if all the pieces fall into the right place.
@@ForgedinPrint The analogy is only ever meant to be an analogy, not a comparison. Yes everything in a computer is physical (electricity and whatnot) and we understand the program because we designed it. AI does not make its own decisions nor does it have a personality; it uses randomly generated numbers through an algorithm to make it seem like it has a personality but spend 5 minutes with it and you'll see how shallow it is.
While much of human behavior is physical chemical, not everything is. Love, logic, justice, morality, ethics, among other things are immeasurable immaterial.
Seems more logical to me to believe in a God who gave us souls rather than sentient lifeforms with perfect structure generated by an extremely chaotic and deteriorating universe.
@@outseteddy6306 Love is a chemical reaction
logic, justice, morality and ethics are all subjective things.
Love we literally can fuck with chemically. All the other things once we change the chemical balance in the brain those change too, it's just a little more complicated.
@@ForgedinPrint I agree, at least from your point of view, those things are subjective EXCEPT logic, but the point is these things exist not physically and cannot be measured.
Regardless of the chemicals in our body, the logic of 2+2=4 will alway be true. How do you measure logic, justice, etc. physically if ALL of our world is purely material?
You can give and receive love freely. I do not deny much of it is chemical, but I don't believe it all is. I don't know you but I love you where I wouldn't want you hurt and if I knew your life was in danger I'd try to prevent it. This benefits me biologically in no real way yet it is true. There are people out there who have laid down their lives to protect strangers.
Like I said this is just how I'm seeing it and why I believe more than just the physical (these reasons and many more). It's an interesting concept and I can understand the reason you believe it to be solely physical.
@@outseteddy6306 I had misspoken on the subjective part, I meant that they are human constructs. I don't know what crack I was snorting when I said that.
That being said it's fine if you think they have some immaterial property, in fact I encourage that. It means you give it value. Just remember that these values are all your own, no one else gave it to you.
I brought up that we can mess with it because if they were divine we wouldn't be able to actually mess with it on the scale that we can.
the only way you get walls from bricks is with an intelligent mind behind it not by magic tjump
you all probably dont care but does anybody know of a tool to log back into an instagram account??
I stupidly forgot my account password. I would love any tips you can give me.
@Sergio Elliot Instablaster =)
@Rex Dominic thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm trying it out now.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will reply here later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Rex Dominic it did the trick and I finally got access to my account again. Im so happy:D
Thanks so much you really help me out !
@Sergio Elliot happy to help xD
Tjump: we can literally see the things you visually see with your minds.
Wow...really!???...can they literally see the things we visually see in our minds????...I mean our memories and thoughts???
Aron has faith 100%
Aron would look great for Halloween dressed up as a devil, he looks just like it .. wow..
I was thinking the pilgrim from Pocahontas
He looks like an alcoholic to me. Used to be one so I can tell.
Take it easy!!! 😇😇😇😇
i was thinking he look like the brother of Anton Lavey
@@christianresearchproject you think hes ugly, therefore hes miserable? Like what?
Aron needs serious help. Cliffe and Stuart dominated this debate. Well done guys!
Neh, he doesn`t need help, he just needs to be kicked out next time when he starting to show disrespect. He's arrogant and dishonest. With a man such as this, you can`t debate something. Aron enters the arena with a mindset that he's already right and everybody is wrong. That's not a debate, it's a joke.
That was hilarious. That was a joke right?
This comment has to be satire....right?
Aron appears to be sick of listening to people who dont understand simple human biology it annoys me too that the religious argument is we think there is a soul so there is until you have a better explanation of consciousness. Leading scientists do not fully understand consciousness therefore god did it is not an argument it is giving up on understanding reality.
@@matthewoborne1649
*"simple human biology"* Are you serious or trolling? The cell is the most complex and
most elegantly designed system man has ever witnessed.
"To grasp the reality of life as it
has been revealed by molecular biology, we must magnify a cell a
thousand million times until it is
twenty kilometers in diameter and resembles a giant airship large
enough to cover a great city like
London or New York. What we would then see would be an object
of unparalleled complexity and
adaptive design. On the surface of the cell, we would see millions of
openings, like port holes of a vast space ship, opening and closing to allow a continual stream of
materials to flow in and out. If we
were to enter one of these openings we would find ourselves in
a world of supreme technology and
bewildering complexity... (a complexity) beyond our own creative
capacities, a reality which is the very antithesis of chance, which excels in every sense anything
produced by the intelligence of man..." says Michael Denton, professor of biology.
So, don`t dare to say human biology is simple when just ONE SINGLE cell blows everyone's mind, even the most sophisticated and intelligent scientists can not fully grasp its complexity.
When it comes to life, everything is COMPLICATED and EXTREMELY COMPLEX! Nothing is simple in what we call life.
The only reason we have evolutionists is that they are looking at reality from a very,, very, very limited and superficial perspective. Life is MORE than dead matter.
Just one tiny cell destroys anything you can call "random" "chance" "blind process".
Respect the conversation
Awesome debate I've been following Aron for years as well as Cliffe and this was pretty intense but also thought provoking.
Who do you say is more capable of grasping an idea accurately?
Aron says he believes, well aron that’s faith
Is there a difference between belief and faith? If there is, does it depends on the context?
@@fr3d42 They are different. But it’s a very subtle difference.
“I trust, based on his good character, that he will return what he borrowed.”
This is *faith* that comes from a *belief* about a person.
That’s the best I can explain it.
I think the confusion comes from misnomers, where one word is substituted for another (originally to shortcut speech). I.E. when you say ‘I believe’, you’re often inferring faith based on your belief, because the two have become almost interchangeable. I say ‘almost’ because it doesn’t always work, and, when it does work, it can still be misleading or confusing.
Ludwig Wittgenstein - “Philosophy is a battle against the bewitchment of our intelligence by means of our language.”
@@fr3d42 Belief is opinion. Faith is trust.
@@somerandom7672 This is very interesting. The two words are often interchanged and the definition isn't always clear.
To me belief is not a choice, I am compelled by reasons to believe, if there is new information I have no choice to change my belief.
Faith is a choice, it is blind trust in something I have no good reason to believe.
I totally understand Aron position that he does not have faith in his life, I feel the same.
The sort of definition of faith that you are importing here does not necessarily lead to a belief in a God.
It is not fair to reduce the word faith to just simply definitions that relate to religion and spirituality. Sometimes we use the word faith as a more colourful way to express that we trust someone.
But that trust is expressed based on demonstrable values. And we are using the word faith in that context more colloquially.
when we use the word belief, it is usually when we have high confidence in a proposal or idea based on a gut feeling or an intuition, but usually it is an absence of evidence for that proposal. That's not to say there is anything wrong with that of course, so long as your belief is not imposed on others.
But, again, colloquially we can use the word belief to imply Trust. This is just how our language Works in English.
Cheers, and happy New Year.
Wonder if Aaron chooses to be angry or if it's just a chemical reaction? Sad , rude individual . Him and Tom are living in absolute fantasy land
Fantasy land? There not the Christians lol
Andrew, this is the fate for anyone who chooses to reject Christ. Without God you grow bitter, resentful, feel entitled to everything, and when you dont get it , you take on the victim mentality and things just snowball from there.
@@csmoviles or when you hear woo woo bullshit for 20+ years it begins to age at you.
@@csmoviles your afirmation can't be further from the truth; Here what you're saying "since there are people who don't believe what I believe and doesn't worship my imaginay friend, then i'll assume that they're just resentful and bitter because they don't think how I think" yeah, very very wise, isn't it ?
@@phantomse24 Hold my ice cream…. Get ready to have your mind blown!
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ruclips.net/video/TQQsb5H3xLI/видео.html
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This was like Rafa Nadal playing against opponents in the early rounds of the French Open. 6-0, 6-1, 6-1.
Cliff & Stuart being Rafa of course.
ha! love that comparison!
I didn't see the game where Rafa embarrassed his team by;
tripping on his laces, & accidentally kicking himself in the nuts as he stumbled.
I'll have to rewatch that
Atheist's introduction: I need money, become my Patreon.
Christian's introduction: We care about the truth.
Thats funny, so if churches are interested in truth why do they ask for money and why are there preachers that are loaded, BECAUSE PEOPLE GAVE THE MONEY THAT THEY ASKED FOR
@@bulkster1000 are you talking about prosperity gospel pastors ?if so, you are right, but they are not true Christians in any way.
@@bany512 hi. But those Christians will disagree with you, that they are in fact real Christians and they need the funds to keep the lights on and to keep their Outreach going. All that aside, I'm wondering what you think of the rest of the presentation by the atheists. Cheers.
@@ntr10me well, I find the whole moral relativism very dangerous, mainly because I used to fully embrace it, before coming to Christ, and so I know where it leads, very well. Also, science never was or will be prescriptive and will always be only descriptive, which also takes away a lot of of their arguments. What is your opinion about the discussion ?
@@bany512 Hey, Peter.
1 Science seems like the most reliable method for determining the demonstrability of claims as well as the fact-based nature of things
2 though I see the value in having labels for things like moral relativism, etc..., and I can understand and respect why atheists need them to categorize certain experiences, I tend to stay away from them as they are always too loaded.
3 Though I find AronRa far too strident in his views, he's excellent at communicating his perspective ...well, when he's not importing RUclips-esque snark into the mix. His way of looking at things is very reliable on his channel and extremely thoughtful.
4 TJump is very enjoyable to listen to, even if I don't completely understand his perspective on some things fully. He comes at topics very thoughtfully, and...
5 ...like most atheists that I interact with, he approaches all of these claims from a bottom-up perspective. This is one of inquiry and curiosity and healthy skepticism.
6 Theists tend to operate from a top-down structure - this is how it is, our god has so declared it.
7 Cliff is by far one of the most unreliable debaters on such issues. Though he presents himself as listening, he is in fact just a 'sender' not a 'receiver' in these discussions. Though I'm sure he's probably a likeable fellow, he doesn't strike me as someone I could have a helpful or useful discussion with.
Sorry, for the ramble.
Feel free to respond to any of the points above.
Cheers
A soul is a gift from God
Their is something more than matter and energy ?
What is energy , proove it in showing it.
A spark ore lightning is not prove of energy.
If we are creatures , why do other creatures have no creativity like humans.
Only humans overcome what thy are not capable.
Example: we are not fish, but we build submarines. We can not fly , we build plains , weapons , .......
What creature of all the other 1000s can do it ,
Do we have the same Spirit as them ?
Dang I thought I had a choice to eat pizza.....now I know what to say to my Doctor now!
Lol...
😂😂😂
It's an interesting thought! whether you believe in god or not, the existence of free will is a very interesting subject.
Even if there is no free will, is the fact that we don't know the causes of our actions, that we cannot predict the future gives us the illusion of free will?
@@fr3d42 did you freely write this comment?
@@steeltown825 That's what I'm talking about. If there is objectively no free will, we would still have the illusion of it because we are not all knowing.
To anwser your question from my point of view, with my very limited knowledge, yes I did choose to write it. But someone all knowing could show me all the reasons why I did it.
Do you see my point?
Aron ra has more faith than anyone I know
@@AnarchoPunkChad annihilated?
How
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 faith by definition is the absolute trust or confidence in something or someone. So when they were debating the topic and cliff brung up the “stop light” analogy. They denied it being faith. faith isn’t because supernatural. So yes all atheist have faith. Everyone has faith in something or another. Hur dur
@@Crayola170Faith is a strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof.
Soooo basically Aron has no faith in anything. You confuse faith with trust. Faith is surrendering your rational faculties to a doctrine.
@@davidlarsen1981 there are like 6 more definitions ... well, why aren't we surprised you cherry-picked the one that suits your faith the most.
One of the definition states: firm belief in something for which there is no proof; the other: something that is believed especially with strong convictions; just one more: complete trust. Any of these would be highly characteristic of the atheistic faith.
@@csmoviles give me a few examples and source for the definitions of faith that would better support your position then.
At 1:06 was that claim that Walls came from Bricks, as a argument for that rationality can came from the irrationality! What a bad Point! Both find that argument so good that they repeat it. Ok guys, then show us how you get a Wall from Bricks without a rational human.
The Ra guy gets triggered, upset and clearly gets bent out of shape quite easily.
I mean, you realize how long he’s been listening to the same tired, old arguments?
@@TheFirstAtom ...and you're suggesting the Ra guy has a/thing new to offer up? *smh*
@@Kman. Did I say that? I also disagree with him on saying there is absolutely “no god.” I don’t believe there is a way for anyone to prove he exists or not. But I believe it’s highly probable that a god does not exist. And if one does, which one? You’d have to show conclusive evidence for said god. Otherwise we’d be in the same position we started in. Ignorance.
You seem to be putting words in my mouth, which I hope is unintentional. When you assume, you make an ASS out of yourself. So be careful and ask questions instead of assuming my answer.
@@TheFirstAtom if he's tired of listening then maybe he should just focus on his sole beliefs and stop debating anything God related. He doesn't seem like an atheist, just someone who believes God exists but hates him
Nice cop out. Just because someone is angry at a particular belief, doesn’t mean they believe it.
Reading Christian comments is funny and makes a nice change
the best part is to just correct them when you see they are wrong, and when they reply (if they do) just correct them on that in a cold and logical way. I actually had one person say that my dad was calling them, so I just left how lust was a sin. No response after that.
In age and feebleness extreme,
Who shall a helpless worm redeem?
Jesus, my only hope Thou art,
Strength of my failing flesh and heart:
O could I catch one smile from Thee,
And drop into eternity!
Charles Wesley
Gave me douche chills
That is the gayest thing I have ever heard.
@@andymaciver1760 the sky on your profile picture God created it. Beautiful picture
@@R3DASH09 do you really think that Ashley? Don't you want to think for yourself? What is more interesting, the actual reason the sky looks that way or just saying "God did it"?
@@andymaciver1760 The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
You can make a choice that is contrary to your desire. That is freewill.
No. If you override a desire, your aversion-or competing wish-was stronger than your first preference. Determinism stands.
@@jancerny8109 Choice stands.
@@darryl5372 You actually can't fight your desires. The struggling alcoholic is fighting contradicting desires, one to drink and one to get away from drinks. That guy with a gun to his head has the desire to protect his daughter, but also has the desire to live. You always have desires guiding you, it's just sometimes those desires contradict one another.
@@ForgedinPrint I believe that free will resides in the middle of those two forces.
I could be wrong and have been before.
@@darryl5372that is a theological question more than a science one. At the end of the day though it's a war between desires. These desires can also be messed with as well, or example drugs. N
It's unfortunate that people do not acknowledge that the biblical definition of faith includes evidence. The bible does not teach a faith void of evidence. Faith without evidence is biblically foolish. I still would like to know how supposedly rational people can draw the conclusion that information can come from or be sourced in nonintelligence. DNA contains information. It is rational to entertain the idea that rocks(nonintelligence) created DNA? That seems to be what the so-called "emerging properties" theory basically suggests.
I'm lost in this conversation. Way beyond my comprehension. Tapping out at halfway.
Don't give up!! It's important to stay with the confusion until you at least understand the main points of contention(if they are there).
What made you tap out? Btw in jiu jitsu we tap out and immediately continue rolling again.
Keep watching and listening! The more of these dialogues you listen to the more you will begin to understand what is being said. And it’s so important! I am not a smart person and still very much enjoy these videos because I’m hungry for knowledge and truth!
Cliff: "Rationality does not come from matter and energy, it comes from a mind"
Aron Ra: "Yes it does"
Aron needs to reflect on the notion of the mind... hopefully that will help him stay in the present moment in these debates and not get "angry".
I think we all would like to see Aron Ra become a better "atheist" (assuming you believe in that notion) as this would enable people like Cliff, and Stuart, to be challenged.
Otherwise... the debate ends up being pathetic because the criticisms provided by the "atheists" are not useful enough to cast doubt on anything and the "truths" that are shared by Cliff and Stuart are so self-evident that they can only be "miss-characterized" and "emotionalized" by the doubts...
My suggestion... both sides need a skewb. Start cubing and you will see with content improve drastically.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Thanks for reading. I'm shocked anyone read it. I appreciate your feedback and I will certainly consider implementing it into my next comment.
All the best!
Y’all ever been really scared or shocked or nervous these feelings resonate in your chest where your soul is
That is literally just stress. Doesn’t take a genius to find this stuff out. The internet is available to you, try using it.
“When the body has a stress response there are changes that occur within the body in order to protect itself when in danger, which is what the body thinks is happening. The change that causes the feeling of chest tightness is the muscles of the body contracting and tightening”
Anxiety and stress are not evidence of a soul
Y'all considered Writing your Comment, on Toilet Paper, Eating it and Blowing it, out, your ass. The Power Of Crap compels you. A Bowelful of Crap compels you.
You don’t have a separate thing in you. You are a soul. It’s like a light blub
@@Alulim-Eridu Hold my ice cream…. Get ready to have your mind blown!
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Powerful Cliffe and Stuart !!! powerful !!! Thanks !
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Aron was obliterated by Tim O'Neill. He's not as bright as you'd like to think.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Tim O'Neill was actually an atheist.
Powerfully bad at debating
Yes.a brick makes a wall..think..2 bricks makes a wall also...half a brick makes a wall too
Is it just me or does it look like TJUMP is always about to laugh or he's holding in a laugh
It really does🤣🤣🤣
1:40:42 you can see Tom ponder on that mathematics statement
1:22:35 " I have no presuppositions at all....I think, therefore I am and then build my knowledge of reality off of that..." The failure and irony of TJumps statement is that he is assuming that the tools he is using to build his understanding of reality are reliable and trustworthy to begin with. He uses his 5 senses (the tools) to interact with the observable world around him. They allow the transmission of data in which he then can interpret the data presented to him via his senses. So in order for Tjump to understand his reality he has to trust that the tools he was provided with will reliably transmit information accurately. However, these 5 senses are prone to error and are limited in nature.
How can aronra say he doesn't have freewill and he is only chemicals ahahahahahahahahhaah ??
I'm replying to this before I've even watched the video:
It's called determinism (and sometimes causal determinism) and is very interesting - do look it up and have a good long read. I find it more plausible than free will. I can immediately poke holes in free will by pointing out the limitations of any particular individual's circumstances, knowledge, hormonal state and/or cognitive ability. It's much harder to argue with determinism. You're pretty much stuck with "but I don't wanna!"
That Aaron guy looks so unhappy. I guess miserable would be the word.
Yes, Aron Ra provides a great visual for what it means to sell your soul to Satan.
I think that either he used the Klingons from Star Trek as inspiration for his look, or Star Trek used his look as inspiration for the Klingons. 👽🤪
Inductive generalization is faith. The self is not an observable quantifiable object.
Good job 👍 keeping the topic to make these non-believers think 🤔
It is impossible for cliffe and Stuart to make a specific point.
Aron in saying something is wrong admits an existence of a right which contradicts his own position he’s simply rebelling against God, atheism is simply choosing to deny true right.
Rebelling against God?
How is he doing that
@@thedragonofechigo7878 think about it
It doesn't, he has his own ethical system. Even if the character from the Bible was real, I wouldn't follow him.
I thought it was the undertaker debating
How does science begin to test whether a person has a soul or not?
As science often deals with things that are concrete and measurable, it would probably have more to do with houses asserting that there is a soul Define what a soul is, how it can be detected, and so on. Based on that description, scientists can develop strategies, tests, to determine whether such assertions are based in reality or not. It is not incumbent upon scientists to demonstrate that something is real or not based on other people's assertions when those assertions are based initially on subjective claims. Any thoughts? Cheers.
Did you listen to aron or thump? They gave quite a few examples. Reacting emotionally to these types of questions is childish. How about the whole tumor example?
@@AnarchoPunkChad emotional response, nice. What do you disagree about? There's more nuance between good or bad.
@@AnarchoPunkChad yet again nothing of substance. HOW is it that there is a duality of only good and bad in this universe that we inhabit?
@@AnarchoPunkChad what are you confused about?
Soul is mind will and emotions
I’ll start by saying I’m a Christian, but I think that the argument the atheists were making is that mind and emotions can be proven in the physical world which does not really help Cliffe and Stuart’s argument. I believe a soul exists, I can’t explain what it is in physical words because physical words is all I have to express what’s in my mind, so I would leave it at the soul is an immaterial thing given by God that in a non-material way connects us to God and to people. A soul is something that we experience within ourselves and with other people and the result of these connections and “motor(s)” of the soul come about in both an immaterial way we cannot fully experience and in a material way we can experience such as in finding a significant other. Just my own thoughts
Watch Dr James Tour if your dare Mr WWE.
The issue with TJump's analogy about the walls at 1:05:50 is that the brick and walls are not contradictory. The bricks and the wall are both operated under the same laws of logic. The brick is the building blocks of the wall So the essence of the wall are bricks. However, to say rationality comes from irrationality is erroneous because they are contradictory. Rationality does not spring forth from irrationality. To use Tjump's analogy, his rationale behind rationality springing forth from irrationality is like suggesting that a solid wall can spring forth from the gaseous state of air. They are completely contradictory. You cannot build a solid wall from the gaseous state of air. Side note, the wall is only a wall because human beings superimposed a meaning and purpose to the compiling, organizing and the arrangement of the bricks. Without human beings imposing a purpose to the specific and intended organization of the bricks, the bricks ceases to be described as a wall and it loses all of its meaning. The purpose and meaning was ascribed to the wall by humans. The consequence is the same when stripping God out of your worldview. The human being ceases to have meaning. They cease to have purpose. They are simply just in a state of being waiting to expire. What makes it worst is all the memories, achievements, and accomplishment that seemingly out live you will eventually fade out into oblivion thus showing you that life is meaningless without God.
Cliffe's argument is basically presuppositionalism, "consciousness equals soul, therefore you have to disprove consciousness to convince me".
Hypothesis: Thoughts light up the brain.
Jesus Is Lord, We are called to be bold hallelujah
Material reduces Reality. Too much truth for unbelieving hearts to fathom.
What the fuck does that mean?
@@boblarson7694You can never understand because you're an unbelieving heart. I'm not surprised the commenter you responded to didn't bother to elucidate.
What is a brick if not a tiny wall XD...
But seriously, he is not talking about physical items but something different. Living things do not come from nonliving, just like justice cannot come from injustice, love from hatred, or equality form inequality.
Even if god is real, didn't he create life from none life?
@@fr3d42 the argument is an intelligent mind created life on earth. Even if we make proteins in a lab that have the potential of creating life, that still shows life came from a mind.
Does that make sense?
@@DCice13 Yes I understand your point: we (humans) haven't yet been able to create abiogenesis.
I agree that's a fact. My point is:
Did god create life from non life?
The stuff we're made from isn't special, it exists as non life around us, do you get my point?
@@fr3d42 if I recall his argument, it was life is only created by other life. if there is a being that created us, we need to ask what being and using what process. It can be aliens, so then who created them?
But assuming the Bible is true, we are told God formed us from non-life, but breathed into us life. Physical we were made of non-life, but God provided us a spirit that gave our shell a life.
@@DCice13 Now we understand each other better.
It seems more plausible to me that life emerged from a mindless natural process, you think it's more plausible that it was created from an eternal mind.
What do you mean by 'breathing life into us'? Do you mean that if we had the means to duplicate a human to the last atom, it wouldn't be alive?
While Cliff and Stuart are AMAZING guys!!!.... I also acknowledge they DESPERATELY NEED TO BE TAUGHT BY Dr. James White, Tim Challies, Justin Peter's, Paul Washer, Jeff Durbin and Charles Spurgeon...
Love you guys.
What you mean
Yeah, I don’t know about any of those other thinkers, but I do know Spurgeon, and I’ve listened to Cliffe Knechtle for hours. I have no idea why you think the Knechtles need to read Spurgeon’s writings? I’d guess Cliffe knows full well who Spurgeon was. Seems like the Knechtles know their scriptures pretty well. Perhaps better than you, Jeremy?
They’re not reformed or presuppositional like those you mentioned
I became somewhat suspicious of Dr James White when I noticed that he had an unreasonable bias towards Gail Riplinger’s validation of the KJV Bible with her book New Age Bible Versions. There’s something not quite right with him.
Atheists usually say to me the word ‘they’ they did this and did that who are ‘they’?
It depends on the context.
Who are these atheists who you're talking about,
as if "they" are the entirety of atheists?
This would obviously never be accepted as “proof” or “evidence”; but man. Look at the peace that Cliffe and Stuart have and contrast it to the non believers. If I had never heard of theism or atheism, I’m going to explore theism based solely on Cliffe and Stuart’s patience and rationality.
Bricks can be formed by non emergent properties but only with a builder, bricks don't just randomly put themselves together by materialism.
@Josue Olivas do you wish to discuss that?
Cliffe and Stuart were the only ones making claims, Tom and Aron did not make any claims only rebutted the claims Cliffe and Stuart were making which is pretty freaking easy to do. The only claim you could say T and A made is that we are simply molecules but never explained how these molecules were actually designed. The metaphor about the wall that Tom needs to explain is who made the formula to create the wall? Just like a cook makes a specific formula/recipe for a meal, if you add too much or too little of something that completely ruins the final product. TJump and Aron need to answer who or what designs the wall, the meal, the universe and consciousness.
My chemicals chose for me to write this comment
lol
Actually they do. It also why men have an urge to do dirty things. Hormones. You are naive and insecure so you try to express yourself through conformation bias. All explainable with evolution.
If the words coming out of your mouth are just the product of evolution and were predetermined entirely by a causal chain of physical events I have no reason to believe they are true or not. What is the chemical compound of truth? If all of this is just matter and energy/macroevolution a man raping and killing a woman is no different than some giant rocks falling onto her, as well as your reaction to it and your choice about how to deal with it is no different than the wind blowing.
I sincerely doubt that you live your life consistent with that line of thinking.
Aaron shows you why believing in God is better because if you have no God you just become darker without the recognition, just look at the different auras each person gives off, I don’t think its a coincidence, Jump seems like a good person but his views on the world limit himself and his true potential, if everything was just physical we wouldn’t as humans have the gift to manifest news creations from the realm of thought, we like to look at the neurological activity as what’s actually happening in our minds but when observing the neurotransmitters as complex as it is that is just the surface of what the mind is actually experiencing, when u observe the quantum activity of anything things get more unpredictable because thats where conscious things lay at, it doesn’t follow patterns we recognize because certain activities makes it’s own decisions just like we do, we’ll never be able to meet measures up with what makes this reality real because then you would have to be coming in and out of time which we kinda are doing without our control ....so we will find our answers just not in this time 🌌
Stuart mispronounced Aron's name 3 times with 3 different mispronunciations.
Kind of revenge because he did not wait for his turn, just kept talking over them.
Well in aron ras material world it should not matter.
1:41:20 This is the truth. I Thank God He showed me that!
It is clear to see...The wise speak from wisdom, The simpleminded use laptops and Apple iPhone 11 Pro.
“Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Wow. Atheism is insanity.
What evidence do you showing theistic evidence is not evidence?
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 Well... that's silly. The illness itself is the fact that you believe that you're just a pile of matter. Explain to me why only humans can have free will, consciousness, reason, self-awareness, emerged from materialism? If this is true, is not supposed that all living biological bodies could have this? Like in a cartoon where the animals act like humans? Watch Zootopia, Madagascar, Ice Age, etc... If this were true, that our self could emerge from pure materialism, then we would have animals like in those cartoons, able to reason being self-aware.
Well. Guess what, when you wake up from your own fantasy, the reality is different. You will never see a dog waking up in one morning and starting to contemplate its own existence and place in this universe. A dog, even though is so intelligent, can NOT be self-aware. Why?
You guys need to step up your game and get better debate opponents... no wonder "new" atheists are considered a hindrance rather than advancing the philosophical debate. I love a good debate, but all I saw here was a lot of butthurt and eye-rolling.
Real talk ✅💯
I think this os what you get these days. The likes of Thomas Nagle, Richard Dawkins, Chris Hitchens, etc do not exist anymore. It could also be that science is proving more and more, the idea of a transcendent being so the big hitting academics are withdrawing from the game.
@@zamundalion I think you're very mistaken in that assumption " It could also be that science is proving more and more, the idea of a transcendent being so the big hitting academics are withdrawing from the game.". I would highly suggest you read the book The Devils Delusion.
Not to sure if Aaron was Drunk, but it looks like he was Drinking Dark liquid courage…..
Aaron always drinks during debates, it's kinda funny.
Aron is possibly the most arrogant athiest i've ever seen.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 i never made assumptions about Arons personality... I made a presumtion based on his arrogance. After watching a video that goes for almost 2 hours, its pretty easy to determine whats his personality is like.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 nobody mentioned his looks.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 I agree with you, I van understand Aron getting angry when he can prove his point and people wont listen
Doesn't make him wrong though.
I'm sorry but Aron is a fool clinging to one irrational arguement for the whole video
"Why can't we choose! Because you don't have a will of your own. We do have a will!!! No you don't. Matter and energy determins our will!"
Thats why you can't choose/have your own will. Because Matter and Energy chooses. Not you.
That's kinda the point 😐
That literally doesn't make no sense whatsoever. Matter and energy isn't making me write this comment. I chose to write this comment so thefore I used my will. Matter and energy can't decide your choices, it's not alive and it's not intelligent. So I don't get where you guys get that matter and energy decides our actions, that literally makes 0 sense. To say that something that isn't alive and isn't intelligent decides our very decisions is mad.
You might as well say. well geez that dude who shot up the school, it wasn't his fault. He didn't choose to do it, it was matter and energy that made him do it.
@@davidthornton3597 EXACTLY!!! Thats what we are saying, verbatim the Atheist guy is saying that, and its crazy when you draw it out to it's logical conclusion. We are in agreement there.
@@elijah1047
Ah okay, well sorry if I came off rude. I'm just glad we're in agreement on this.
@@davidthornton3597 no problem it's all good.
What's your brain made of?
Although, reading some of this crap,
maybe I shouldn't just assume you actually have a brain.
(But for those who do have a brain...
Brains are made of matter & energy)
There have been very few people that I have ever encountered who I would say they are beyond salvation because of the hardening of their heart but Aron Ra is one of those people . It’s going to be very interesting on the day that he stands before the Lord . His arrogant and angry continence will be humbled on that day.
If you could ever provide evidence for this then you'd be able to convert a lot of people, aaron included.
TJump: wielder of the "emergent properties of the gaps" argument.
Lol, nice one!
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 First, you used a double negative. You used "don't" twice in one sentence. Second, your statement made no point, at all.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1No, YOU just don't understand!
See, two can play this pointless game.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1 All you're doing is asserting Tom is right and I'm misunderstanding, without giving any basis as to why or how. Hence, it's a pointless comment. It's just your biased opinion.
@@The_Indomitable_Human_Spirit_1Asserting you're right isn't an argument. That's all you're doing.
Cliffe needs a crash course in logic. Choice is not infinite; we simply make a choice from limited options at each instance, and nobody chose to ‘like’ pizza, or anything for that matter, you simply have a higher than likely probability to choose the things you are hardwired to like. The Red Queen effect comes into play that determines choice in a world out to kill you.
The stoics debated ethics way before anyone even uttered the word Christ and therefore predates Christian morality for choices that impact others.
Wrong wrong and wrong
@@darkeen42 Proverbs 18:2 a fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
When the atheists say "They are just chemicals" they immediately lost the debate. It was brilliant that Cliffe and Stuart hit hard on that atheist error when they heard it. Chemical reactions do not lead to Objective truth. Also the atheists are presuppositional materialists not giving any arguments that we only have a material world. Yet Cliffe and Stuart gave arguments that are so self evident that nobody can deny we have choice. We sincerely need to pray for those atheists as atheism is driving them mad.
Is presupositional naturalism the same thing as methodological naturalism?
Cliff: Your self is a soul, the real you that is making choices and reasoning.
Aron: I know that we make choices and reasons. That fits into our perspective. Show us this other thing that is not within our perspective.
If they could explain from the first place what they understand and what they mean what they say the word "soul", the debate would have ended sooner and Aron wouldn't have to keep asking for proof or evidence of this other "thing", that he wants them to provide evidence for.
ARON is literally like a 17 yr old kid ! Hahahahaha This guy is hilarious! Well, or 'sad' at the same time.
if i looked like that guy I would be an atheist
😂😂
Someone should inform Aaron that his yelling and use of explatives does not make his arguments any more persuasive nor ellicit the sense that people are communicating with a rational individual. It would be interesting to see if that behavior led people to discontinue their monetary support for Aaron.
I dont think he believes that using those words are persuasive. He is just evil so it's embedded in him.
@@home4life505 are you Jesse lee peterson?
Energy can scientifically be measured but not a soul ! .
I have 0 respect for tjump Bc all he does is read off biased sources from google, he never debates off memory. Also, Aron ra is rude and only throws insults
Someone has to build the wall.
And the bricks.
Aaron realizes that he has faith just like the rest of us and he reacted very badly to that realization.
"faith: strong belief in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual conviction rather than proof."
Hmm
@@170221dn Faith has multiple definitions, another one is complete trust, eg... when you get on a plane you have faith that the people who put it together knew what they were doing, I bet you wouldn't get on that plane if you were told it was put together by monkeys.
@@170221dn Cliff and Stuart made a great point. We all have things that we believe in that we can not prove.
benjy288
Yes and I would TRUST it was put together and maintained properly. Faith has a very particular meaning in connection with faith.
whodatdere
We all have things we believe in we cannot prove? Like what?