This is why barbershop singing has been called the blackbelt of a cappella. We sing with no vibrato and must match three other parts to make the chord and get the "ring."
In the very early days when Psychology was just becoming a science, one of the first things psychologists looked at was something they called, _Just Noticeable Difference._ For example, how many grains of sand are necessary for a human being to recognize that a five pound bag of sand has gotten heavier or how many eye drops of green paint in a gallon of yellow paint before you start noticing a yellow green color. I don’t know if any research has been done on pitch, but I imagine there is some degree of difference required before people in general can notice that something is off pitch. This is what bothers me with pitch correction, because likely in most cases normal humans can’t catch what’s just a little flat or a little sharp, but what pith correction does do, imo, is rob voices of their humanness and authenticity-which I think, like using just the right kind of wood for a violin, is part of what gives each human voices a uniqueness, not to be found anywhere else. We are losing a lot, I think, when we lose that.
@@longcastle4863 Nice analogy. That’s what makes his videos on the subject so unarguable, that robbing of the human element, which he has stated several times.
0:40 Hi Fil. Your analysis videos are: 1) informative 2) instructional 3) demonstrative and 4) entertaining You are a wonderful educator. Thank you for helping me understand what I am hearing and why some performances hit so well while others fall FLAT! No pun intended. 😂😂 Your channel is awesome and so are you. ROCK 🎼🎸🤘💖
Agreed. I especially love Fil’s talent for mimicry: he really makes his points by singing what he’s heard, with just enough emphasis to make his point! It’s a useful talent if you’re instructing people.
My personal opinion is that a small vocal exercise before starting recording would have helped with the beginning. This is an emotional singer, not someone trying to be technical. As the song progresses the comfort level increases and we end up with a fantastic performance. I'll take the flat notes as well to keep it real!
I imagine you must be a music instructor in huge demand. If I had a child now who was interested in music, you are one-hundred percent the kind of teacher I would look for.
I have always loved this song, but I was the only one in my circle who had ever heard of it, so cool that you analyzed it. And to all you "singers" out there, don't use pitch correction. No one enjoys listening to a computer sing, pitch correction is taking away what makes singers enjoyable and interesting.
Fil, you are a singer’s dream instructor with all your technical know how & detail! I like this song. It’s a nice little song with a real 80s, British vibe to me. 🎵
Hi Fil 😃 Awesome analysis as usual 😃👍 This auto-tuning and pitch correction is getting ridiculous. I can just hear them in the production booth..."oh my goodness he's flat, we've got to correct that". Have a great day and as always thank you for your analysis... You are a treasure 😊👍
Fil, you are a treasure. You explain things to non-musicians that make sense to us neophytes, who hear what we hear, but can't understand the science behind why we hear what we hear. I've watched AI and AGT for years, and can tell in a second who is talented and who isn't, but have no idea why I know it. My ear is amazing at picking out the talent, but I have no musical knowledge to explain it. You are extremely talented and I love your channel.
Look up “relative pitch” and “absolute pitch”. Those are hearing skills that you probably have, but don’t have the musical education to name the notes (and may or may not be able to hit the notes). You know something is off, because your ears have a skill that most ear-brain connections don’t have. Addit: Conversely, you know what has the potential to be a hit, because it sounds really good to you. Question: Do you notice when a bridge (or “middle 8” in Fil-speak) is completely wrong for the song? I suppose it can apply to the chorus, too, but for me, it’s usually a really good song with a really awkward bridge.
@@SuziQ. I definitely think I have relative pitch. I know for a fact I don't have absolute pitch. It just stimulates my intellect that I know what sounds good and doesn't, but I have no real insight to the science of musical theory.
That's a new one to me, so it's fun to learn a new song. I like it, and the way he sings it so freely and expressively. I'll have to check out the full song. Thanks, Fil.
Loved this song Fil ❤ I always liked the uplifting chorus....this is one of those songs that I can pin point the year, time of year and what I was doing around that time 👍🏻
Great analysis Fil.... again! I adore that song, yet back in the day it was quite polarising here Down Under also. To my ear Freddy's vocal styling sounds very StevieWonder-like in some parts. Fil - now that you have analysed that song, I would dearly like to here a comparison with it pitch-corrected. That would be super educational. I expect it'd be much less likeable
Yes, the note I've noticed for a long time is "noon" in "afternoon" in the second verse which is pretty sharp, and he's finding his way back again after that. He was very powerful, but it's as if the first take was kept. But, why not 😅
A shower room favourite for a long time! I hadn't really been too bothered about the choruses. My feeling is that he almost doesn't want to be singing on the same level or notes - because as soon as that soaraway chorus comes in, he completely goes for it. As we all do, given half a chance!
Hi Filophytes, Just love this song; perfectly constructed and all of the elements sound so RIGHT together! The opening synth, the chunky bass, Fat Larry laying down the drumming with a gentle touch, oh baby. The tinkling bells, the addition of TWO backup male vocalists, it all adds to what is a charming love story. I recommend all viewers to have a look at the official video, and check out the guitar player when he notices the camera on him. Don't know why this wouldn't have been a hit everywhere! Thanks Fil, for another insightful video. Your blood is worth bottling!
Great video Fil, it seems like until he projected in the chorus he was lost with the pitch. Maybe he just needed warming up lol. Overall a great song and performance and real music
Here's what we need ... A pitch DECORRECTOR plugin that we can apply to artificially pitch corrected vocals so that they sound natural and human-like, rather than robot-like. What a fabulous challenge for AI programmers.
The problem is, Melodyne removes the original note when someone (a tone deaf engineer) snaps the original note to A440 hz, and that original note can’t be retrieved. It can only be guessed at, based on past performances and recordings. 😢It’s gone.
I loved early Bob Dylan’s voice. The way a musically talented friend of mine and big Bob Dylan fan explained it to me was like this: it’s grace notes, he rarely hits the note on first try but gets there eventually and it’s that resolution that is a large part of, not just its attractiveness, but it’s humanness, as well. A voice that came from you and me, as Don McLean once sang. Don’t know if any of that is true-I’m fairly tone deaf, but love music remarkably-but it’s something I’ve always thought made a lot of sense.
Agreed. As an American, I'm not familiar with this song as it wasn't a hit here like Fil said. But I like the way it is sung. It doesn't necessarily sound "off" to me -- just takes a few seconds for my ears to adjust. Good tune and good vocal performance though. Much prefer it to something that's been pitch corrected to death!
In an analysis like this, it's probably worth mentioning the intentional (or intuitive) use of off-pitch singing to convey a specific emotion. It doesn't seem like that's what happened here, but being sharp or flat isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Fil makes this point constantly, pointing out that the overuse of autotune and pitch correction robs performances of character and emotion. That’s why he’s constantly reacting to historic performances when this technology wasn’t available.
Kevin smith absolutely, Nothing compares by Sinead wouldnt have the same emotional effect without those slightly dissonant notes, some people just complain that ‘she’s flat’ completely missing the point
Before watching this video, I watched the full song from the link. I like to form my own opinion before I hear Fil’s analysis. I never heard this song before because like he said, it wasn’t a hit in the US. Usually, the first hearing is when I can pick out the bad notes. After several listenings, I get used to it and it doesn’t feel so uncomfortable anymore. Another song like that is Voices Carry by ‘til Tuesday. It was painful at first but I got over. Lol
Hi Fil, This song reminds me of a combination of Kool and the Gang meets the Commodores. Definitely a difference between the vocal on first verse and the second. I don’t think the first verse grabs your attention quite enough to get a good feel of the song. Also the melody seemed hard to pick out at times which may have contributed to the flat or sharp sound. But I loved his high note range and some of that interval work the second half and end of the song was really fabulous. Thank you for breaking it all down and explaining it! Great job. Debbie☮️
Another terrific review, thanks! One thought, could the flatness of the first verse be for dramatic effect? The rest of the song is more joyful and spot on in pitch. I wonder if it was intentional.
Mr. Fil - I think Fat Larry's Band wasn't popular here in the States because to my ear he just was uninteresting with his sound. Nothing exciting in his vocals to make me want to sit up and say - hey what a great song or voice; lyric. I don't question his pitch but his style of singing and/or the arrangement. Ouch that was a harsh comment but you asked. Another brilliant analysis sir. And There We Have It.
Interesting analysis, Fil, however, the video's title gave me a momentary start. My first year in high school I was in the school chorus, and having the lightest tenor, I was positioned next to the sopranos. At our big performance of the year, after the first song, "Tonight" from "West Side Story", the pretty soprano next to me spoke the only words she said to me all year, "You're just a bit flat." As she didn't say anything afterwards, I hope I corrected my pitch to her satisfaction.
~Thanks, Fil~ ...i was not familiar with Freddie Campbell or ZOOM before your video... ...WOW, what a Great Song!!! ...your Analysis was Excellent, & i could SEE the Vocals were OFF; but when i listened to the Full Song, i couldn't HEAR it, it didn't sound Flat to my ears... ...i enjoyed Freddie's Amazing Vocals as well as your Incredible Vocal Examples!!! 🤘😖🤘
Always loved this song. Always will. Never noticed or cared about Freddie being flat or sharp. The overall experience I enjoy every time I listen to it is worth it. One of the best Feel Good songs ever.
Great analysis! Though I always wondered if some of the singing parts were deliberate and not mistakes. For instance if you noticed the line “out of wack” noticed how the melody is going through different pitches here to give that “out of wack” feeling from the lyrics. It’s like he’s painting a picture here.
I have't heard this song before. Thank you for another excellent analysis that explains clearly what I hear and what I see on the monitoring software screen.
Interesting as always. FLB had a number of dance & R&B hits in the US & UK prior to Zoom breaking big in the UK. I always thought one of the main reasons it caught fire was because of the "flat" vocal- it stood out from all other records on the radio at the time. He certainly didn't sound like any other R&B/SOUL singer at the time! Another similar song that always sounded flat to me was a massive1990 US No1 "The Postman Song, Because I Love You" by Stevie B which flopped in the UK- maybe worth a listen/review? Another is when Diana Ross spectacularly misses the high note in Touch Me In The Morning her No1 US hit from 1973.
Great analysis as always!! Love how you say it’s “bad” without saying “it’s bad.” You’re a gentleman and a scholar. Watched a lot of your videos. Have you done one about your top 5 or so natural pop /rock singers of all time? (I’ve always thought of K.Carpenter , Roy Orbison, Freddie Mercury) Your KC video is excellent. Thanks for educating and informing.
I’ve sung a verse of “Veni, veni Emmanuel” a week before Christmas with organ accompaniment, nearly a quarter tone flat before getting back in pitch for the next verse. My last solo for a while! I blame my late mother who was tone-deaf but sang me lullabies. But it’s “my own damn’ fault” in the words of Jimmy Buffet, not hers. Sir Harry Secombe once performed a song in concert a quarter tone flat of the accompanying orchestra. He covered up his shame by saying to the conductor, “Don’t you know how DIFFICULT that is?” But he was embarrassed. As I was in my case. (Analysis of Sir Harry’s cinematic performance of “Nessun dorma” or anything else would be fun, but there probably aren’t many people who remember him. His voice coach told him to quit comedy and pre-rock popular music and make a reliable living as an operatic tenor, but he.didn’t.)
Harry Seacombe was so loved by just about everyone. He had a great voice but I'm glad he chose not to give up his other talents to concentrate on singing.
Great work Fil. But analyse Lissie 'CASTLES' on the 'When I'm Alone' Retrospective. An absolutely underrated vocalist. My favourite song ever is 'Dreams' off FM's 'Rumours'. Lissie does a cover which I considered sacrilege. But it is truly awesome.
@@deed.3230, I watched the linked video first. People (a lot of them) said this was their wedding song. 😂 To me, it could be a soundtrack for my dogs running on the beach.
Hi Fil love your videos. You are so true and honest. I love your approach to all the videos you do. I do love especially anything from 80’s and early 90’s. There are other songs from different eras that I love also. I came across Get it on by T Rex. I don’t know if you’ve done a video on that one but I thought it would be a good one to do if you haven’t already. Keep up the good work. Just love your playing and singing too. 👍🏻👍🏻
@suelucey9621....Yes...!! I am 72 and I have been hearing that wonderful song since it came out. I would love to have Fil do an episode on Brenda Lee and this great song...!!!!
This song sounds like a different song, but I can’t quite name it, yet. I’m certain I haven’t heard it before you posted this video. I’m not having a “euw, mute it now!” response to this, and I had expected to. It’s a little bit simple, like certain late 60s- early 70s bands could be. There’s not much substance in the musicality or the lyrics, yet it’s not grating, either. Thanks, Fil. This somewhat solidifies that a lot of what’s off putting to my ears is either tweaked by tools, or twangy by nature.
You bring up an interesting point about headphones. Way back when we had a great stereo system in our home, some of the very first Sherwood stereo components with JBL LE-8's. With that system I first used KOSS Pro-4AA's they delivered big sound. Later on I bought some Sennheiser 424's. The open air design of the 424's changed the equation some. When you sing along with the KOSS, you don't hear much but you do with the 424's. Just thinkin' back.
Singers that think singing is only pitch accuracy is like guitar players who think tuning the guitar is only thing you need to play guitar. Better singers know that singing ever so slightly sharp or flat brings so much more drama and expression to the vocals, though no listeners can hear the difference
I do not rate myself as being musical but does David Bowie sing "flat" / "out of tune" on one of his songs. Cannot recall as I write this which one it is, but I do note the feeling I get when listening to the song in question is similar to the way Phil talks about the artist here. ANOTHER GREAT INFORMATIVE and WELL EXPLAINED video here from Wings of course.
Hi Fil, personally, I think you're giving us ( North Americans) too much credit. When you point out the obvious, then I heard it. I think. But as to why the song didn't become a hit, I think wasn't so much the intervals being off or him being flat or sharp, I just think the song is boring. If I heard it in 10 minutes, I would have completely forgotten it. Being forgettable is way worse than being off pitch wise. But that's just one guys opinion. P.S. great show as usual. I have always LOVED your analysis videos. You have a great knack for them.
I don't have any time for 'Only Fools and Horses' but I've always had a soft spot for this track by Fat Larry's Band. Genuine r & b backbeat, spiritually uplifting vocal - it wouldn't be the first time the USA record-buying public has failed to acknowledge an exemplar of their own distant culture.
Its a great vocal overall as you mentioned. Strange how the song did poorly in the US but hit # 2 in the UK. Take Robbie Williams, basically unknown in the US but a superstar in the UK..I always wondered why that was.
This seems like the first time I have watched one of your videos not knowing the song or the artist. The song is not bad and I know the singer's name is Freddie, that is it. I have never heard this song before and not sure about the singer. Not that, that matters being this was a very interesting analysis about notes. Thanks Fil.
I wonder whether it has something to do with his vocal registers? The verses are clearly in a lower register, maybe those notes are right around his passaggio? For a lot of guys, they say the primo passaggio is around the B3, C4 area, especially for a baritone/tenor type voice. I'm no singing expert though, so not sure.
Hey Fil,Have you ever heard of a guy named Arnold Schultz?? A black man that worked and traveled for the railroad. His home base was Nashville. When he was home. He taught Chet Atkins,Merle Travis,Bill Monroe and his Uncle Pen a lot of their riffs. They say he’s partly responsible for Bluegrass Music considering all his work with the Monroe’s. I know your into being the best musician you can be and that includes history. They say there are no recordings but your more resourceful than I am…..Sorry for writing a book.
5:00 - Wouldn't it depend on the vibrato 'straddling' that perfect note to sound on-pitch? Many singers employ a sharp-going vibrato which REALLY sounds unpleasant! (Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey come to mind)
Last week I heard a professional singer with a really good voice, and commented to her that with her voice, she didn't need autotune and that I hated autotune. Her comment was "every little bit helps." Needless to say when her album gets released I will not be buying it.
Hi Fil! Have you ever heard Peruvian "exotic" singer Yma Sumac? I know this may take you away from your current agenda, but I believe you will find her very interesting. It is said that she had a vocal range of more than 5 octaves, quite unique (most certainly, with no auto-tuning and pitch correction)! So, I would like to know if this is true, and an analysis by you could bring much light on it. (Excuse me for any writing mistake, since English is not my mother tongue). So, please, could you analyze, for example, the song "Mambo" by Yma Sumac? (It is on RUclips; listen particularly from second 50 on). I am sure this will be worth your while. Thank you very much!
I always got the impression that Marc Almond was just slightly flat but it seemed to work with his songs. Freddie's singing is perfectly okay! There is a karaoke I go to where there are some true shockers. There are some 'singers' there with a vocal range of about 5 or 6 semitones at most.
Hello Fil, Would be really interested for you to analyse Sam Brown singing Stay with me baby, because her voice sounds so different to me. I enjoy your videos!
Why is it offensive? Because we have an expectation that the music we are hearing in the background will be consistent with the singer hitting the notes the other musicians are playing. And to the extent that he's not on key with them, or where we expect the next note to be, it's not only offensive, it's grating. Thanks for your more technical explanation.
Well, to answer the question on the title of this Blog which is "Why does singing flat sound offensive", the answer is that flat means you never got there, whereas a little sharp is not as bad because you over sung it a little. So, neither is good but flat is definitely much worse. People who can't carry a tune are always flat, never sharp.
The producer should have been able to pick it out whatever the reason was. But musically, how many in the US did not get a black band playing soft rock / pop instead of funk or soul oriented music ?
Funny, i physically cringe when i hear flat singers who fail to reach "athletic" high notes (notably on "The Star Spangled Banner"), but i sometimes enjoy singers who start flat and "search" upward to find the pitch, and i LOATHE LOATHE LOATHE singers who hit a note sharp and stay sharp -- it's like chalk on a blackboard to me.
To me, in the first verse, the notes he was singing were much lower. Some people are just not so good at singing lower notes, just like how some are not so good with the high notes. IMO, the notes range of the chorus was bang on in his comfort zone, that’s why he was hitting them so well in comparison. My 2 cents. 😎
I always enjoy Fils analysis and honestly this is the only internet platform left with no politics it seems. I think Oasis took some lessons from this guy
I didn't know this song but i must admit that i instinctively feel there is something odd in the first part of the song, and actually, although the notes later on are correct, there's also something wrong in the usage of his voice in the chorus. It looks to me that there's some theory missing in his preparation.
Maybe he starts with his soft palate too relaxed- too low. Once he has to arch and shape his buccal cavity to hit the high notes, he is on pitch for the rest of the song. I think plenty of singers tend to start flat, until the muscle memory kicks in. I definitely know this is my problem-LOL!!! This is why serious singers do major warmups before recording. Fil highlighted one on Michael Jackson doing his warmup.
Assuming you verified the recording was playing back at A440. The tracks done to tape before digital era are often not spot on. Any musician will tell you it's a drag to learn a bunch of covers from those day because you have to retune your instrument to each recording to practice..
Speaking of flat, I'm hoping you'll find something to discuss in Ingrid Andress' national anthem. I think it's merely bad and not worthy of all the attention, while the rest of the Internet thinks it's an absolute travesty.
Another song which I love, but sounds a bit flat is Bill Withers singing Lovely Day. But then I listen to it, and I know the world is right with me, just one listen to the song, and I know it's gonna be... a lovely daaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy. Sorry, couldn't help myself there.
Incidentally, I don't think that having it "corrected" would make it a better song. Love the song as it is. Just wanted to point out that it sounds a little off at times, and that is part of the performance.
Never heard of them before... now I know why! That was terrible. He was so off key at the beginning, that I can't believe this was ever heard outside of recording studio. Wow. This song was never released here in the US, and I'm greatful! Not only are the lyrics total cheese, but I do not like his voice at all, even when he does manage to hit the note. They only had a few songs here, their highest charting only hitting #24. This was really, really bad. Thank you Fil for another great analysis!!
This is why barbershop singing has been called the blackbelt of a cappella. We sing with no vibrato and must match three other parts to make the chord and get the "ring."
@@Kas_and_Nacho I love a good barbershop quartet!
In the very early days when Psychology was just becoming a science, one of the first things psychologists looked at was something they called, _Just Noticeable Difference._ For example, how many grains of sand are necessary for a human being to recognize that a five pound bag of sand has gotten heavier or how many eye drops of green paint in a gallon of yellow paint before you start noticing a yellow green color. I don’t know if any research has been done on pitch, but I imagine there is some degree of difference required before people in general can notice that something is off pitch. This is what bothers me with pitch correction, because likely in most cases normal humans can’t catch what’s just a little flat or a little sharp, but what pith correction does do, imo, is rob voices of their humanness and authenticity-which I think, like using just the right kind of wood for a violin, is part of what gives each human voices a uniqueness, not to be found anywhere else. We are losing a lot, I think, when we lose that.
absolutely 100% agree with you. Great analogy with the violin and the subtlety of difference between them depending upon the wood used..
@@longcastle4863 Nice analogy. That’s what makes his videos on the subject so unarguable, that robbing of the human element, which he has stated several times.
0:40 Hi Fil. Your analysis videos are:
1) informative
2) instructional
3) demonstrative and
4) entertaining
You are a wonderful educator. Thank you for helping me understand what I am hearing and why some performances hit so well while others fall FLAT! No pun intended. 😂😂 Your channel is awesome and so are you. ROCK 🎼🎸🤘💖
Agreed. I especially love Fil’s talent for mimicry: he really makes his points by singing what he’s heard, with just enough emphasis to make his point! It’s a useful talent if you’re instructing people.
Very good point about the tape running slow. That's probably it.
And by the first chorus, he's spotted the mistake and corrected it for the rest of the song. (?)
My personal opinion is that a small vocal exercise before starting recording would have helped with the beginning. This is an emotional singer, not someone trying to be technical. As the song progresses the comfort level increases and we end up with a fantastic performance. I'll take the flat notes as well to keep it real!
Absolutely.ill take it any day,ahead of any kind of tampering
I imagine you must be a music instructor in huge demand. If I had a child now who was interested in music, you are one-hundred percent the kind of teacher I would look for.
Agreed! This is how music should be taught.
We would need 36-50 hour days, for Fil to take on another job. Didn’t he stop teaching guitar? At this point, he could teach vocals, too.
Thanks for the kind words!
I have always loved this song, but I was the only one in my circle who had ever heard of it, so cool that you analyzed it.
And to all you "singers" out there, don't use pitch correction. No one enjoys listening to a computer sing, pitch correction is taking away what makes singers enjoyable and interesting.
I like this song. Thank you Fil for explaining what's going on in this song.
#45 Thanks Fil, the silent spaces between notes are underrated, as hell
@@roryblake7311 that’s funny.
@@deed.3230 Thank you!
Fil, you are a singer’s dream instructor with all your technical know how & detail! I like this song. It’s a nice little song with a real 80s, British vibe to me. 🎵
Hi Fil 😃 Awesome analysis as usual 😃👍 This auto-tuning and pitch correction is getting ridiculous. I can just hear them in the production booth..."oh my goodness he's flat, we've got to correct that". Have a great day and as always thank you for your analysis... You are a treasure 😊👍
That didn’t happen to this song.
Fil, you are a treasure. You explain things to non-musicians that make sense to us neophytes, who hear what we hear, but can't understand the science behind why we hear what we hear. I've watched AI and AGT for years, and can tell in a second who is talented and who isn't, but have no idea why I know it. My ear is amazing at picking out the talent, but I have no musical knowledge to explain it. You are extremely talented and I love your channel.
Look up “relative pitch” and “absolute pitch”.
Those are hearing skills that you probably have, but don’t have the musical education to name the notes (and may or may not be able to hit the notes).
You know something is off, because your ears have a skill that most ear-brain connections don’t have.
Addit: Conversely, you know what has the potential to be a hit, because it sounds really good to you.
Question: Do you notice when a bridge (or “middle 8” in Fil-speak) is completely wrong for the song? I suppose it can apply to the chorus, too, but for me, it’s usually a really good song with a really awkward bridge.
@@SuziQ. I definitely think I have relative pitch. I know for a fact I don't have absolute pitch. It just stimulates my intellect that I know what sounds good and doesn't, but I have no real insight to the science of musical theory.
That's a new one to me, so it's fun to learn a new song. I like it, and the way he sings it so freely and expressively. I'll have to check out the full song. Thanks, Fil.
Fil said it all at the end. It's about the personality. The human element can't be matched.
This is a brilliant analysis that explains how our brain programs our pitch expectation. I also record with one earpiece on and the other off. ❤️🤘🏼
I don't recall ever hearing this but enjoyed the song and your analysis as well. 😊🎸🎵
Loved this song Fil ❤ I always liked the uplifting chorus....this is one of those songs that I can pin point the year, time of year and what I was doing around that time 👍🏻
Cheers for the ongoing awesome content!
Great analysis Fil.... again! I adore that song, yet back in the day it was quite polarising here Down Under also.
To my ear Freddy's vocal styling sounds very StevieWonder-like in some parts.
Fil - now that you have analysed that song, I would dearly like to here a comparison with it pitch-corrected. That would be super educational. I expect it'd be much less likeable
Oddly, (?), I find it more jarring when he sharps the entry to a note, (particularly the high registers), rather than when he's a bit flat.
Yes, the note I've noticed for a long time is "noon" in "afternoon" in the second verse which is pretty sharp, and he's finding his way back again after that. He was very powerful, but it's as if the first take was kept. But, why not 😅
A shower room favourite for a long time! I hadn't really been too bothered about the choruses. My feeling is that he almost doesn't want to be singing on the same level or notes - because as soon as that soaraway chorus comes in, he completely goes for it. As we all do, given half a chance!
Hi Filophytes,
Just love this song; perfectly constructed and all of the elements sound so RIGHT together! The opening synth, the chunky bass, Fat Larry laying down the drumming with a gentle touch, oh baby. The tinkling bells, the addition of TWO backup male vocalists, it all adds to what is a charming love story. I recommend all viewers to have a look at the official video, and check out the guitar player when he notices the camera on him. Don't know why this wouldn't have been a hit everywhere! Thanks Fil, for another insightful video. Your blood is worth bottling!
It has been a hit on the dancefloors all over. Pitch or no pitch..flat or not flat....great ballad
Thank you for this very educational analysis.
Freddy has an AMAZING VOICE ❤
Great video Fil, it seems like until he projected in the chorus he was lost with the pitch. Maybe he just needed warming up lol.
Overall a great song and performance and real music
Here's what we need ... A pitch DECORRECTOR plugin that we can apply to artificially pitch corrected vocals so that they sound natural and human-like, rather than robot-like. What a fabulous challenge for AI programmers.
I LOVE this idea!!
The problem is, Melodyne removes the original note when someone (a tone deaf engineer) snaps the original note to A440 hz, and that original note can’t be retrieved. It can only be guessed at, based on past performances and recordings. 😢It’s gone.
Some of the best notes lie in the cracks between the keys. It only matters how you resolve them.
I loved early Bob Dylan’s voice. The way a musically talented friend of mine and big Bob Dylan fan explained it to me was like this: it’s grace notes, he rarely hits the note on first try but gets there eventually and it’s that resolution that is a large part of, not just its attractiveness, but it’s humanness, as well. A voice that came from you and me, as Don McLean once sang.
Don’t know if any of that is true-I’m fairly tone deaf, but love music remarkably-but it’s something I’ve always thought made a lot of sense.
Agreed. As an American, I'm not familiar with this song as it wasn't a hit here like Fil said. But I like the way it is sung. It doesn't necessarily sound "off" to me -- just takes a few seconds for my ears to adjust. Good tune and good vocal performance though. Much prefer it to something that's been pitch corrected to death!
Thanks Fil! 👍
In an analysis like this, it's probably worth mentioning the intentional (or intuitive) use of off-pitch singing to convey a specific emotion. It doesn't seem like that's what happened here, but being sharp or flat isn't necessarily a bad thing.
Fil makes this point constantly, pointing out that the overuse of autotune and pitch correction robs performances of character and emotion. That’s why he’s constantly reacting to historic performances when this technology wasn’t available.
Kevin smith absolutely, Nothing compares by Sinead wouldnt have the same emotional effect without those slightly dissonant notes, some people just complain that ‘she’s flat’ completely missing the point
@@LoneRanger100nobody has complained because she sounded fine
Before watching this video, I watched the full song from the link. I like to form my own opinion before I hear Fil’s analysis. I never heard this song before because like he said, it wasn’t a hit in the US. Usually, the first hearing is when I can pick out the bad notes. After several listenings, I get used to it and it doesn’t feel so uncomfortable anymore. Another song like that is Voices Carry by ‘til Tuesday. It was painful at first but I got over. Lol
I’ve always loved Voices Carry (and Aimee Mann’s solo work).
11:20 - EXACTLY! Why is that? I can hear the pitch change as I take off the headphones!
Hi Fil,
This song reminds me of a combination of Kool and the Gang meets the Commodores. Definitely a difference between the vocal on first verse and the second. I don’t think the first verse grabs your attention quite enough to get a good feel of the song. Also the melody seemed hard to pick out at times which may have contributed to the flat or sharp sound. But I loved his high note range and some of that interval work the second half and end of the song was really fabulous. Thank you for breaking it all down and explaining it! Great job. Debbie☮️
Another terrific review, thanks!
One thought, could the flatness of the first verse be for dramatic effect? The rest of the song is more joyful and spot on in pitch. I wonder if it was intentional.
Mr. Fil - I think Fat Larry's Band wasn't popular here in the States because to my ear he just was uninteresting with his sound. Nothing exciting in his vocals to make me want to sit up and say - hey what a great song or voice; lyric. I don't question his pitch but his style of singing and/or the arrangement. Ouch that was a harsh comment but you asked. Another brilliant analysis sir. And There We Have It.
Just so! I really don't even mind the performance -- it just isn't an especially good song (or pleasing melody) to begin with.
Great update as always Fil
Hey Fil, I knew your reaction content well, but these more technical videos are really insightful. Thanks!
Interesting analysis, Fil, however, the video's title gave me a momentary start. My first year in high school I was in the school chorus, and having the lightest tenor, I was positioned next to the sopranos. At our big performance of the year, after the first song, "Tonight" from "West Side Story", the pretty soprano next to me spoke the only words she said to me all year, "You're just a bit flat." As she didn't say anything afterwards, I hope I corrected my pitch to her satisfaction.
Female singers naturally have a 5 or 6 semitone advantage. I doubt she could 'do' Johnnie Cash.
I would never have thought about this kind of analysis - very interesting. You kind of know when it's right & when it's wrong & this tells you why.
~Thanks, Fil~
...i was not familiar with Freddie Campbell or ZOOM before your video...
...WOW, what a Great Song!!!
...your Analysis was Excellent, & i could SEE the Vocals were OFF; but when i listened to the Full Song, i couldn't HEAR it, it didn't sound Flat to my ears...
...i enjoyed Freddie's Amazing Vocals as well as your Incredible Vocal Examples!!!
🤘😖🤘
Always loved this song. Always will.
Never noticed or cared about Freddie being flat or sharp. The overall experience I enjoy every time I listen to it is worth it.
One of the best Feel Good songs ever.
Great analysis! Though I always wondered if some of the singing parts were deliberate and not mistakes. For instance if you noticed the line “out of wack” noticed how the melody is going through different pitches here to give that “out of wack” feeling from the lyrics. It’s like he’s painting a picture here.
I have't heard this song before. Thank you for another excellent analysis that explains clearly what I hear and what I see on the monitoring software screen.
Interesting as always. FLB had a number of dance & R&B hits in the US & UK prior to Zoom breaking big in the UK. I always thought one of the main reasons it caught fire was because of the "flat" vocal- it stood out from all other records on the radio at the time. He certainly didn't sound like any other R&B/SOUL singer at the time! Another similar song that always sounded flat to me was a massive1990 US No1 "The Postman Song, Because I Love You" by Stevie B which flopped in the UK- maybe worth a listen/review? Another is when Diana Ross spectacularly misses the high note in Touch Me In The Morning her No1 US hit from 1973.
Great analysis as always!! Love how you say it’s “bad” without saying “it’s bad.” You’re a gentleman and a scholar.
Watched a lot of your videos. Have you done one about your top 5 or so natural pop /rock singers of all time? (I’ve always thought of K.Carpenter , Roy Orbison, Freddie Mercury) Your KC video is excellent.
Thanks for educating and informing.
But it isn't bad.the imperfection probably helped it to become as popular.i love the fact that ita not polished 😊
I’ve sung a verse of “Veni, veni Emmanuel” a week before Christmas with organ accompaniment, nearly a quarter tone flat before getting back in pitch for the next verse. My last solo for a while!
I blame my late mother who was tone-deaf but sang me lullabies. But it’s “my own damn’ fault” in the words of Jimmy Buffet, not hers.
Sir Harry Secombe once performed a song in concert a quarter tone flat of the accompanying orchestra. He covered up his shame by saying to the conductor, “Don’t you know how DIFFICULT that is?” But he was embarrassed. As I was in my case.
(Analysis of Sir Harry’s cinematic performance of “Nessun dorma” or anything else would be fun, but there probably aren’t many people who remember him. His voice coach told him to quit comedy and pre-rock popular music and make a reliable living as an operatic tenor, but he.didn’t.)
He could blow a mean raspberry though.
I loved him in Oliver!.
@@atreb56he was great in that!
Harry Seacombe was so loved by just about everyone. He had a great voice but I'm glad he chose not to give up his other talents to concentrate on singing.
Interesting. I'm from the USA and I've never heard this song. Loved your commentary.
I always thought this was Stevie Wonder! 😮
Great analysis Fil as always.
See you at the next one.
Great work Fil.
But analyse Lissie 'CASTLES' on the 'When I'm Alone' Retrospective. An absolutely underrated vocalist. My favourite song ever is 'Dreams' off FM's 'Rumours'. Lissie does a cover which I considered sacrilege. But it is truly awesome.
I'll be honest: when you say "your ear", you're not talking about my ear. 😀
😅
That’s funny;)
In the same honest vein, I can’t imagine this bring a hit anywhere.
😂😂😂
@@deed.3230,
I watched the linked video first. People (a lot of them) said this was their wedding song. 😂
To me, it could be a soundtrack for my dogs running on the beach.
Hi Fil love your videos. You are so true and honest. I love your approach to all the videos you do. I do love especially anything from 80’s and early 90’s.
There are other songs from different eras that I love also. I came across Get it on by T Rex. I don’t know if you’ve done a video on that one but I thought it would be a good one to do if you haven’t already.
Keep up the good work. Just love your playing and singing too. 👍🏻👍🏻
I would like to thank Flat Larry for singing a song about my drum machine .
My first request ever:
Brenda Lee - "I'm Sorry"
One of the greats. Anything by Connie Francis is a treat as well. Ladies sure knew how to sing back in the day. No autotune or theatrics.
@suelucey9621....Yes...!! I am 72 and I have been hearing that wonderful song since it came out. I would love to have Fil do an episode on Brenda Lee and this great song...!!!!
This song sounds like a different song, but I can’t quite name it, yet. I’m certain I haven’t heard it before you posted this video.
I’m not having a “euw, mute it now!” response to this, and I had expected to. It’s a little bit simple, like certain late 60s- early 70s bands could be. There’s not much substance in the musicality or the lyrics, yet it’s not grating, either.
Thanks, Fil. This somewhat solidifies that a lot of what’s off putting to my ears is either tweaked by tools, or twangy by nature.
You bring up an interesting point about headphones. Way back when we had a great stereo system in our home, some of the very first Sherwood stereo components with JBL LE-8's. With that system I first used KOSS Pro-4AA's they delivered big sound. Later on I bought some Sennheiser 424's. The open air design of the 424's changed the equation some. When you sing along with the KOSS, you don't hear much but you do with the 424's. Just thinkin' back.
Singers that think singing is only pitch accuracy is like guitar players who think tuning the guitar is only thing you need to play guitar.
Better singers know that singing ever so slightly sharp or flat brings so much more drama and expression to the vocals, though no listeners can hear the difference
I do not rate myself as being musical but does David Bowie sing "flat" / "out of tune" on one of his songs. Cannot recall as I write this which one it is, but I do note the feeling I get when listening to the song in question is similar to the way Phil talks about the artist here.
ANOTHER GREAT INFORMATIVE and WELL EXPLAINED video here from Wings of course.
Hi Fil, personally, I think you're giving us ( North Americans) too much credit. When you point out the obvious, then I heard it. I think. But as to why the song didn't become a hit, I think wasn't so much the intervals being off or him being flat or sharp, I just think the song is boring. If I heard it in 10 minutes, I would have completely forgotten it. Being forgettable is way worse than being off pitch wise. But that's just one guys opinion. P.S. great show as usual. I have always LOVED your analysis videos. You have a great knack for them.
If that’s the case then why was it a hit in Britain? As you know, the British are not known for producing or liking boring music.
I'd love to hear an auto-tuned version of the flat sections and see if I even prefer the "improved" version...
Thank Fil. Another great analysis.
I don't have any time for 'Only Fools and Horses' but I've always had a soft spot for this track by Fat Larry's Band. Genuine r & b backbeat, spiritually uplifting vocal - it wouldn't be the first time the USA record-buying public has failed to acknowledge an exemplar of their own distant culture.
Its a great vocal overall as you mentioned. Strange how the song did poorly in the US but hit # 2 in the UK. Take Robbie Williams, basically unknown in the US but a superstar in the UK..I always wondered why that was.
No airplay in the states. Did his record company fail to promote him?
The Robster. He always points the mike at the audience during the high bits! On the record he is subtlely blended with the female backing singers.
Sounds like Eddie Murphy's SNL Buckwheat character.
YES!! That’s what I said! 🤣
Great video and a nice song I hadn't heard before.
This seems like the first time I have watched one of your videos not knowing the song or the artist. The song is not bad and I know the singer's name is Freddie, that is it. I have never heard this song before and not sure about the singer. Not that, that matters being this was a very interesting analysis about notes. Thanks Fil.
First time hearing this song. What sounds off to me is he obviously has a strong Stevie Wonder influence going on, and pales in comparison.
I wonder whether it has something to do with his vocal registers? The verses are clearly in a lower register, maybe those notes are right around his passaggio? For a lot of guys, they say the primo passaggio is around the B3, C4 area, especially for a baritone/tenor type voice. I'm no singing expert though, so not sure.
Great as usual Fil. Are you able to pitch correct Zoom for direct comparison it would be interesting.
Try listening to T'Pau with Carol Decker singing so flat on China in your Hand. It hurts my ears- ouch!!!
I loved this song!
I'm a really good singer and i never felt this sounded off, i thought it was a lovely song Still do!
Hey Fil,Have you ever heard of a guy named Arnold Schultz?? A black man that worked and traveled for the railroad. His home base was Nashville. When he was home. He taught Chet Atkins,Merle Travis,Bill Monroe and his Uncle Pen a lot of their riffs. They say he’s partly responsible for Bluegrass Music considering all his work with the Monroe’s. I know your into being the best musician you can be and that includes history. They say there are no recordings but your more resourceful than I am…..Sorry for writing a book.
5:00 - Wouldn't it depend on the vibrato 'straddling' that perfect note to sound on-pitch?
Many singers employ a sharp-going vibrato which REALLY sounds unpleasant! (Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey come to mind)
Sounds great!
Would be interesting to hear singers before the autotune craze who didn't use vibrato. I'm guessing that may be the ultimate test of pitch accuracy.
Sweet moment ..! ⏰👍
Last week I heard a professional singer with a really good voice, and commented to her that with her voice, she didn't need autotune and that I hated autotune. Her comment was "every little bit helps." Needless to say when her album gets released I will not be buying it.
It sounds better than singing sharp.
Barbara Mason, 'Yes, I'm Ready' is a song my sister and I cannot listen to. She sings so much of it flat to our ears.
Hi Fil! Have you ever heard Peruvian "exotic" singer Yma Sumac? I know this may take you away from your current agenda, but I believe you will find her very interesting. It is said that she had a vocal range of more than 5 octaves, quite unique (most certainly, with no auto-tuning and pitch correction)! So, I would like to know if this is true, and an analysis by you could bring much light on it. (Excuse me for any writing mistake, since English is not my mother tongue). So, please, could you analyze, for example, the song "Mambo" by Yma Sumac? (It is on RUclips; listen particularly from second 50 on). I am sure this will be worth your while. Thank you very much!
I always got the impression that Marc Almond was just slightly flat but it seemed to work with his songs. Freddie's singing is perfectly okay! There is a karaoke I go to where there are some true shockers. There are some 'singers' there with a vocal range of about 5 or 6 semitones at most.
I wonder if the verses being a bit flat makes the chorus feel relatively sharp & brighter? After all, the chorus is the hook.
Hello Fil,
Would be really interested for you to analyse Sam Brown singing Stay with me baby, because her voice sounds so different to me. I enjoy your videos!
Why is it offensive? Because we have an expectation that the music we are hearing in the background will be consistent with the singer hitting the notes the other musicians are playing. And to the extent that he's not on key with them, or where we expect the next note to be, it's not only offensive, it's grating. Thanks for your more technical explanation.
Well, to answer the question on the title of this Blog which is "Why does singing flat sound offensive", the answer is that flat means you never got there, whereas a little sharp is not as bad because you over sung it a little. So, neither is good but flat is definitely much worse. People who can't carry a tune are always flat, never sharp.
The producer should have been able to pick it out whatever the reason was.
But musically, how many in the US did not get a black band playing soft rock / pop instead of funk or soul oriented music ?
Excellent as usual - you may want check High by Lighthouse Family, makes me cringe.
Funny, i physically cringe when i hear flat singers who fail to reach "athletic" high notes (notably on "The Star Spangled Banner"), but i sometimes enjoy singers who start flat and "search" upward to find the pitch, and i LOATHE LOATHE LOATHE singers who hit a note sharp and stay sharp -- it's like chalk on a blackboard to me.
I prefer the Commodores' version! :)
It's only a few years different, I wonder why they used the same title 😅
Another goob one
To me, in the first verse, the notes he was singing were much lower. Some people are just not so good at singing lower notes, just like how some are not so good with the high notes. IMO, the notes range of the chorus was bang on in his comfort zone, that’s why he was hitting them so well in comparison. My 2 cents. 😎
I always enjoy Fils analysis and honestly this is the only internet platform left with no politics it seems. I think Oasis took some lessons from this guy
This certainly doesn't sound half as bad as some live performances I've seen. Too bad this didn't make it in the US. I've heard plenty worse.
I didn't know this song but i must admit that i instinctively feel there is something odd in the first part of the song, and actually, although the notes later on are correct, there's also something wrong in the usage of his voice in the chorus. It looks to me that there's some theory missing in his preparation.
Maybe he starts with his soft palate too relaxed- too low. Once he has to arch and shape his buccal cavity to hit the high notes, he is on pitch for the rest of the song. I think plenty of singers tend to start flat, until the muscle memory kicks in. I definitely know this is my problem-LOL!!! This is why serious singers do major warmups before recording. Fil highlighted one on Michael Jackson doing his warmup.
Enough of difference as if separate vocals, tapes/equipment, or recording sessions.
Assuming you verified the recording was playing back at A440. The tracks done to tape before digital era are often not spot on. Any musician will tell you it's a drag to learn a bunch of covers from those day because you have to retune your instrument to each recording to practice..
Speaking of flat, I'm hoping you'll find something to discuss in Ingrid Andress' national anthem. I think it's merely bad and not worthy of all the attention, while the rest of the Internet thinks it's an absolute travesty.
Another song which I love, but sounds a bit flat is Bill Withers singing Lovely Day. But then I listen to it, and I know the world is right with me, just one listen to the song, and I know it's gonna be... a lovely daaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy. Sorry, couldn't help myself there.
Incidentally, I don't think that having it "corrected" would make it a better song. Love the song as it is. Just wanted to point out that it sounds a little off at times, and that is part of the performance.
I've don't think I heard this song when it came out in the USA. Great explanation about how verbroto is used to disguise if a note is flat.
Never heard of them before... now I know why! That was terrible. He was so off key at the beginning, that I can't believe this was ever heard outside of recording studio. Wow. This song was never released here in the US, and I'm greatful! Not only are the lyrics total cheese, but I do not like his voice at all, even when he does manage to hit the note. They only had a few songs here, their highest charting only hitting #24. This was really, really bad. Thank you Fil for another great analysis!!
Hey, Fil--Why don't you do something on the Oak Ridge Boys, with Joe Bonsall dying last week.