Good information Jon. I’ve also noticed people tend to sand the tops to soon. When using biscuits for alignment the glue will cause the top and the biscuits to swell around the biscuits. If you sand the top too soon before the top and biscuits equalize and the swelling goes down you get the little divots you mentioned. Waiting 24 hours or more to sand the top (depending on the humidity) will greatly reduce the chances of having those divots. That swelling also happens on the edges of each board you edge join but is less noticeable because the board is thicker at the edge (but thinner above and below each biscuit) but can show up over time. But as you said moving the biscuit slot closer to the bottom will help. Using a good quality biscuit will also help. And on some types of woods I don’t use glue in the biscuit slot, or use very little. Ron
Thanks Jon, that’s great. I have had my biscuit jointer for over a year now but have such a tiny shop it’s difficult to do any large projects. I’m so excited as I’m about to move to a new home with a double garage, and forget the car, that whole space is my new workshop! Watch out biscuit jointer, you and I are soon to become well acquainted.
I remember Norm Abrams discovering this issue the hard way on New Yankee workshop, I believe he built a conference table for the “this old house” team. I was impressed when he revealed the flaw on New Yankee. Excellent work around Jon ! Thanks, I love my biscuit joiner ! There! I said it and I’m not ashamed!!! Lol
It was fairly rare to see on the show, but I think it is valuable when Norm would show mistakes or problems. In the episode on turned lamps - as a quick aside, you know how he would often build a prototype before the camera runs, then refer to it throughout the project? Well one of the prototype lamps he tried to make out of a solid section of log, which started to check and split shortly after turning, so the on-screen project lamp he cut the wood up and re-glued it to orient the grain in a direction that wouldn't cause such splitting. Such a valuable lesson.
Extremely well prepared and presented video. I've just bought a new deWalt biscuit joiner and found your video very, very helpful. And you talk good old, plain commonsense. Thank you from Brisbane, Australia. cheers.
I saw a video many years ago. (Of course I can't recall it now) They talked about the gluing of biscuits into the boards could be a problem if sanding was done too quickly after glue up. The reason given was that extra moisture at the biscuit causes the wood to swell. Sanding knocks down the swelling but once everything dries completely you are left with a divot. It was suggested that the glue up be set aside for 2 or three days for proper drying and then sanded. Checking with a moisture meter was also suggested.
A key feature of biscuit joints is that the dry biscuits start off compressed, with the moisture causing them to swell, which makes for a super tight joint. Therefore, what you say about leaving the boards to settle before sanding makes perfect sense.
I've pretty much only worked with cars in the past but your videos inspired me to take on my first woodworking project. I built a stereo console based on the bozak 302a. I'm already hooked on this as a hobby, i can't wait to build more, better pieces. Thanks so much for these videos, they're a huge help.
I have never tried using the biscuit cutter to join boards yet,but when I do I will have good knowledge and a basic understanding of the process,good video thanks.
Telegraphing is something I have never thought of, makes sense though. I also like your tip of using sawdust before the wet rag to clean up the glue squeeze out. My rag usually has glue all over it and I am going back and forth to clean the rag and clean the project. By using the saw dust this should help to alleviate so many trips to the sink.
Thanks for this, I’ve been using a BJ for over two decades with no failures. Wouldn’t be without it. BJs are very much part of edgejoining principles. The lower than centre slotting is good advice 👍🇦🇺✌️
I've been using biscuit joinery for over 25 years and never heard of telegraphing or had any issues with any of my personal or my client's projects. I've always used a wet sponge, but I do like the tip about using saw dust to pull up the wet glue!
I like biscuits so much I named my woodworking business Biscuits and Grain. They take very little time and really help insure that you have a well lined up table top.
I have only seen this issue with narrow stock thickness like 1/2" thick stock being used. Never seen it occur with 3/4" stock or plywood. It could also be the type of glue used to glue biscuits. Once the biscuits expand, they do fill the slot thickness. And can apply an outward pressure. Another issue that could explain this problem, some water based glues adhere better to the biscuit slot of you prewet the slot, with just a slightly wet rag. He used a hard wood in the video, I dont think it would ever show this telegraph with a hardwood, especially if you center the biscuit slot. You have equally applied forces from the grain structure of the hard wood stock. He did point out an issue that needs to be considered!
Thank you for making me less nervous about this tool. I want to buy a biscuit joiner to make an alteration to a piece of furniture my Dad made, and let's say the stakes are high, there needs to be as close to a 0% chance of failure as possible! :D Also, great advice about the sawdust, I'll use that too! Cheers,
Nice video on the subject. I've always wondered why one doesn't just make their own biscuits. The regular retail stuff is compressed wood meant to expand on glue contact, but they are flimsy and rather inconsistent in thickness, worse if you try to save a bit of dough and buy an off-brand pack. If I wasnt using dowels instead, I'd really just spend some time and make the biscuits out of the same material as the project. I use my biscuit jointer to start tenons and reference slots for mortises on the two sides, or cutting out a old stud notches to square in order to fill it. Basically using it for anything but gluing flat pieces together.
Also too, use of the smallest biscuit dry to attain alignment pretty much eliminates the telegraphing or swelling of the biscuit yet gives you all the surface matchup you'll need, You don't need the shear strength when edge gluing solid wood, the primary strength comes from accurately faced surfaces. Prove this to yourself by edging a pair of scrap pieces- say 12" long, and do nothing more than a rub joint with glue (no Biscuit), don't even clamp it, let dry overnight, put it in a vise, whack it with a mallet, see where it fails.
I don't know much about joinery so I was incredibly confused by the title and thumbnail at first. Good video though, very informative and well presented.
Thanks for the tip. I've been considering getting a biscuit jointer and kept avoiding doing so for the reason you mentioned. Thanks for sharing and I think it will be my next purchase.
Thank you Jon. Excellent information and admirable techniques and ‘tricks’. I’m using my joiner for the first time today and I’ll be sure to follow your instructions (including the the sawdust “rub” on the excess glue)👍👍👍👍
I think telegraphing of a biscuit is due to sanding the joint before the glue is entirely dry. Wood fibers swell because of moisture in the glue, and sanding the swollen wood flush to the drier wood surrounding the joint creates the biscuit-shape depression when that wood dries to the same moisture content. Credit Ted Blachly with this biscuit insight.
Thanks for that tip bro I've actually stopped using my biscuit Joiner because of that reason happens to me every time so now I know "no glue in the biscuit slot,only on the biscuit" and "lower the bit"(for me in my case probably an 8th of an inch) have a good one Jon!
Bruce A. Ulrich I was thinking same thing...glad I held off on bringing to my buddy's pawn shop to sell it off..would've lost out on a few bucks for sure
I enjoyed this Jon....never even heard of it because I have only used biscuits once...lol...I’m far from a fine woodworker. But I’m now looking to get one for some upcoming wife projects that I want to be a bit nicer😀👍🏻. Thanks!
The way it is usually explained is that the biscuit swells, you sand the top, then when they dry out they contract back to normal leaving a depression. I think what this comes down to is that no one has seen it happen but they keep repeating it because every one else does. If you are looking for time saving, forget the biscuits and just use clamping cauls. Just as effective and they only take minutes. Much faster than cutting all those biscuit slots. I tried the biscuit method one time. Never again. It took forever.
Nice information. I love working with lamellos, started with woodworking just a few weeks ago. So next time, when i start into a project thats more difficult I keep your tip in mjnd.
Great video, thanks only thing I’d say is it would be logical the biscuits increase the joint strength since there’s additional glued surfaces. I enjoyed it
Donald Chio yes it seems so. However, I’ve seen a test performed here on RUclips proving that a biscuit joint is not stronger. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but hey it’s science!
Thanks Jon! I’ve stayed away from using biscuits for alignment for just exactly the reason you pointed out how to avoid! Maybe I’ll try and borrow one to give it a try and watch the results over a year of weather changes. Agree that they shouldn’t be a problem is no glue applied which isn’t necessary for their purpose of alignment for top surfaces. I noticed you don’t use a caul or clamps touching surface to prevent cupping up (or bowing)? I’d be surprised if you said you never had that problem in all the years you’ve been woodworking?
Another option is to wait longer before final sanding and/or scraping. When the biscuit is glued the wood will swell. If it's sanded before the wood dries thoroughly, telegraphing can occur when it _does_ dry and shrinks back.
Great video Jon! I have always shied away from biscuit jointers being nervous about the telegraphing you speak of. Now having a better understanding I believe I'll give one a try. Thank you for sharing this tip
Very informative indeed sir. I presume this applies to dowels also.? I am going to attach a hard maple face frame to 24mn birch plywood I guess it can still happen in this case? Thank you in advance. Chris
Thanks, I’m not sure about dowels, but I don’t think the telegraphing would be as severe. I think the biscuits expand with the glue and when the top is sanded more material is sanded off and as it dries over time the material is pulled back down.
For more than 35 years I’ve been using biscuits to join boards, and always put them dead Center of the material, unless the material is more than 22mm, then I will used 2 deep. Not once have I ever had telegraphing. I’ve never heard of and can’t imagine compressed beech biscuits shrinking to a smaller size than when they’re first used to cause this effect? That’s the whole point of the glue, it swells the biscuits to hold the material in place whilst it dries. I also always keep my biscuits in an air tight container to prevent moisture degradation. Obviously a good solution to a problem other people must have!
I have an old coffee table where I can see the biscuits, I don’t think anyone else can though. I’m planning on building the same design soon and I’ll try to point them out in a video
Learning questions. Why the sawdust? Do you rub in then wait a few minutes then wet wipe off? What is your thoughts on wet wipe away effects of the glue? I've heard letting glue set up for a few minutes then dull scrap away excess. Thanks
I may have to pull my biscuit joiner out the drawer (the place tools go to die). I've had problems in the past, but I'm pretty sure this will solve them.
Sure this may happen if you’re too close to the surface on any wood. However, if your 1/4”+ on a hardwood, I highly doubt it. There is a huge difference between Pine, Poplar and Oak. I just built a 84x42 farm table form 8/4 white oak. I double biscuited it (one top and one bottom) approx every 8”. I also used a Kreg pocket screw on the under side. This thing is stout and not moving! I do not expect or anticipate telegraphing. Check with me in a year or two.
Question for you Jon, if the Biscuits are compressed when they are mufactured, thus the markings on them, and also intended to swell when in contact with wood glue, how are they shinking more than what you think they do? There is dictintive difference on the brands that make biscuits, quality wise, but the process is the same.
So is the consensus it’s safer or smarter to put biscuits in the middle versus closer to the top or bottom? It makes sense to someone who knows nothing about the subject but is embarking on using biscuits for the first time.
Hi Jon, great video and tips. My boards don't line-up on its edge when I cut the slot using my new Ryobi biscuit joiner. To overcome, I change the hight slightly and make a wider slot on the second pass. As a result, the biscuits are not sitting snug in the slot. Is this is a problem with the joiner you reckon? Quite frustrated and about to return the machine.
Nice tip. To be clear, is there glue on the biscuit but not in the slot. I'm referencing Joe of Joe's Basement. IT'S not clear to me. The is in advance.
I'm late to the party, but I might add that if one side will not be seen, as on a table I will often add pocket holes to the joint to strengthen it. I'm not sure if this is the best practice but it does make for a very solid tabletop.
Maybe. Been doing this for over 30 years, and I have never seen telegraphing. Good thing about doing things over a long time is I can't remember where I glued and where I didn't. So I have a true measure of the results, if not the causes. I had never heard that shrinking causes a problem. We do seem to be in an area where "It shrinks, it swells, it contradicts itself". The reality is that biscuits are a nice snug fit, when moisture equalizes I don't believe they are going to swell or shrink. Sometimes it is hard to get glued joints together if one has a lot of biscuits on a job. If one was the kind of shop where they let the glue set for 30 minutes before passing the work through the planer, maybe they could shrink down. I have never seen anyone provide actually data on this. Why isn't this a problem with thicker dominos, dowels, floating tenons, or slip joints? I sometime stack two biscuits in a 3/4" joint, so they are pretty near the surface, still haven't seen print through. Makes for a strong joint.
Nice video.!! can enyone please tell me the name of the song that plays wille this gentleman is working..?? I am trying to find it for along time now. thank you 😊
I think my takeaway here is just to not add biscuits to panel glue-ups. They add no strength to the finished joint, if something goes wrong with the tool setup during the slotting process they might constrain the boards out of alignment in a way that's difficult to fix, if the panel is cut later you risk exposing the biscuit, and it could show unsightly divots in the finish. Meanwhile I could just...not use biscuits and align the top with cauls while it's in the clamps. The risks/downsides seem to outweigh the benefits here.
It's interesting to me how people from various parts of the US pronounce wood names differently. You pronounce Sapele, sa-peel-e whereas I've always known it as sa-pell-ay (I'm in central NY). I'm curious to know who's correct, or if there even is a correct pronunciation. I'm also curious to know how you pronounce Padauk.
Hey Jon love your programs. Hate to bother you with what may seem like a trivial question. But I was wondering in your experience what Brand biscuit jointer would you recommend. Ive seen a lot of pros and cons of many brands. Thanks in advance.
Good information Jon. I’ve also noticed people tend to sand the tops to soon. When using biscuits for alignment the glue will cause the top and the biscuits to swell around the biscuits. If you sand the top too soon before the top and biscuits equalize and the swelling goes down you get the little divots you mentioned. Waiting 24 hours or more to sand the top (depending on the humidity) will greatly reduce the chances of having those divots. That swelling also happens on the edges of each board you edge join but is less noticeable because the board is thicker at the edge (but thinner above and below each biscuit) but can show up over time. But as you said moving the biscuit slot closer to the bottom will help. Using a good quality biscuit will also help. And on some types of woods I don’t use glue in the biscuit slot, or use very little.
Ron
Throwing some sawdust down on the wet glue to clean it up is new to me. Thanks for that tip.
Thanks Jon, that’s great. I have had my biscuit jointer for over a year now but have such a tiny shop it’s difficult to do any large projects. I’m so excited as I’m about to move to a new home with a double garage, and forget the car, that whole space is my new workshop! Watch out biscuit jointer, you and I are soon to become well acquainted.
I remember Norm Abrams discovering this issue the hard way on New Yankee workshop, I believe he built a conference table for the “this old house” team. I was impressed when he revealed the flaw on New Yankee. Excellent work around Jon ! Thanks, I love my biscuit joiner ! There! I said it and I’m not ashamed!!! Lol
It was fairly rare to see on the show, but I think it is valuable when Norm would show mistakes or problems. In the episode on turned lamps - as a quick aside, you know how he would often build a prototype before the camera runs, then refer to it throughout the project? Well one of the prototype lamps he tried to make out of a solid section of log, which started to check and split shortly after turning, so the on-screen project lamp he cut the wood up and re-glued it to orient the grain in a direction that wouldn't cause such splitting. Such a valuable lesson.
Extremely well prepared and presented video. I've just bought a new deWalt biscuit joiner and found your video very, very helpful. And you talk good old, plain commonsense. Thank you from Brisbane, Australia. cheers.
I saw a video many years ago. (Of course I can't recall it now) They talked about the gluing of biscuits into the boards could be a problem if sanding was done too quickly after glue up. The reason given was that extra moisture at the biscuit causes the wood to swell. Sanding knocks down the swelling but once everything dries completely you are left with a divot. It was suggested that the glue up be set aside for 2 or three days for proper drying and then sanded. Checking with a moisture meter was also suggested.
A key feature of biscuit joints is that the dry biscuits start off compressed, with the moisture causing them to swell, which makes for a super tight joint. Therefore, what you say about leaving the boards to settle before sanding makes perfect sense.
Been woodworking for many years now, but today I learned something new. Thanks!
I like that sawdust and wet rag trick for cleaning up glue. Best of all, thanks for the tip about the biscuits telegraphing.
I've pretty much only worked with cars in the past but your videos inspired me to take on my first woodworking project. I built a stereo console based on the bozak 302a. I'm already hooked on this as a hobby, i can't wait to build more, better pieces. Thanks so much for these videos, they're a huge help.
I have never tried using the biscuit cutter to join boards yet,but when I do I will have good knowledge and a basic understanding of the process,good video thanks.
good tips. Thanks for taking the time to make and share this with us. I've been a woodworker for decades. Never too old to learn something new.
Telegraphing is something I have never thought of, makes sense though. I also like your tip of using sawdust before the wet rag to clean up the glue squeeze out. My rag usually has glue all over it and I am going back and forth to clean the rag and clean the project. By using the saw dust this should help to alleviate so many trips to the sink.
Couldn't agree more with your thoughts on this issue of telegraphine, Jon. Great video.
Excellent tip on glue cleanup. I've never seen that before. A+
Thanks for this, I’ve been using a BJ for over two decades with no failures. Wouldn’t be without it.
BJs are very much part of edgejoining principles. The lower than centre slotting is good advice 👍🇦🇺✌️
I've been using biscuit joinery for over 25 years and never heard of telegraphing or had any issues with any of my personal or my client's projects. I've always used a wet sponge, but I do like the tip about using saw dust to pull up the wet glue!
It is not common but it can happen. Are you using MDF or plywood by any chance or natural wood.
Awesome tip. I never knew that could be a problem with biscuits.
I like biscuits so much I named my woodworking business Biscuits and Grain. They take very little time and really help insure that you have a well lined up table top.
I have only seen this issue with narrow stock thickness like 1/2" thick stock being used. Never seen it occur with 3/4" stock or plywood. It could also be the type of glue used to glue biscuits. Once the biscuits expand, they do fill the slot thickness. And can apply an outward pressure. Another issue that could explain this problem, some water based glues adhere better to the biscuit slot of you prewet the slot, with just a slightly wet rag. He used a hard wood in the video, I dont think it would ever show this telegraph with a hardwood, especially if you center the biscuit slot. You have equally applied forces from the grain structure of the hard wood stock. He did point out an issue that needs to be considered!
thank you for sharing these tips. I just bought a biscuit joiner and I'm glad to have this info.
Thank you for making me less nervous about this tool. I want to buy a biscuit joiner to make an alteration to a piece of furniture my Dad made, and let's say the stakes are high, there needs to be as close to a 0% chance of failure as possible! :D Also, great advice about the sawdust, I'll use that too! Cheers,
I came to find out appropriate biscuit spacing and got a lot of helpful information. Thank you!
Nice video on the subject. I've always wondered why one doesn't just make their own biscuits. The regular retail stuff is compressed wood meant to expand on glue contact, but they are flimsy and rather inconsistent in thickness, worse if you try to save a bit of dough and buy an off-brand pack. If I wasnt using dowels instead, I'd really just spend some time and make the biscuits out of the same material as the project.
I use my biscuit jointer to start tenons and reference slots for mortises on the two sides, or cutting out a old stud notches to square in order to fill it. Basically using it for anything but gluing flat pieces together.
Also too, use of the smallest biscuit dry to attain alignment pretty much eliminates the telegraphing or swelling of the biscuit yet gives you all the surface matchup you'll need, You don't need the shear strength when edge gluing solid wood, the primary strength comes from accurately faced surfaces. Prove this to yourself by edging a pair of scrap pieces- say 12" long, and do nothing more than a rub joint with glue (no Biscuit), don't even clamp it, let dry overnight, put it in a vise, whack it with a mallet, see where it fails.
Cheers Jon
Simple but extremely useful advice
I don't know much about joinery so I was incredibly confused by the title and thumbnail at first.
Good video though, very informative and well presented.
I've often wondered why people put glue on the biscuits. Thanks for illustrating why.
Thanks for the tip. I've been considering getting a biscuit jointer and kept avoiding doing so for the reason you mentioned. Thanks for sharing and I think it will be my next purchase.
Thank you Jon. Excellent information and admirable techniques and ‘tricks’.
I’m using my joiner for the first time today and I’ll be sure to follow your instructions (including the the sawdust “rub” on the excess glue)👍👍👍👍
Just learned how to use biscuit jointers, and this video was very useful. Thanks!
Thanks for the tip! A neighbor just gave me a biscuit jointer. Now I have a bit more insight in how to use it better.
I think telegraphing of a biscuit is due to sanding the joint before the glue is entirely dry. Wood fibers swell because of moisture in the glue, and sanding the swollen wood flush to the drier wood surrounding the joint creates the biscuit-shape depression when that wood dries to the same moisture content. Credit Ted Blachly with this biscuit insight.
John you’ve helped me so much through my wood working struggles, just learning the biscuit jointer now
Your tip came just on time! I'm about to join a workbench top tomorrow and it's my first time using biscuit jointer
Saw dust on the glue and setting the depth deeper to avoid telegraphing, greats tips! Thanks!
Scraping the excess glue with a putty knife then using a wet rag is less messy
Beautiful. Also love the sawdust tip for getting rid of glue squeeze-out.
Thanks for that tip bro I've actually stopped using my biscuit Joiner because of that reason happens to me every time so now I know "no glue in the biscuit slot,only on the biscuit" and "lower the bit"(for me in my case probably an 8th of an inch) have a good one Jon!
Ah, bummer. Well, now you can probably start using the tool again. Jon's always full of tips!
Bruce A. Ulrich I was thinking same thing...glad I held off on bringing to my buddy's pawn shop to sell it off..would've lost out on a few bucks for sure
I enjoyed this Jon....never even heard of it because I have only used biscuits once...lol...I’m far from a fine woodworker. But I’m now looking to get one for some upcoming wife projects that I want to be a bit nicer😀👍🏻. Thanks!
Thanks Joe!
Jon, great tip~! I'd never before heard of telegraphing as related to woodworking. Thanks much~!
Same here. I keep the biscuits a maximum of 3/16" from the top and bottom. I always use two. Using the correct glue is the key.
Good tips, Jon! I've never used biscuits, but I'll keep this in mind for when I do.
Nice tips Jon. I never heard that term for this before. Very good to know. I appreciate all your wisdom.
Thank you for your expertise and knowledge and it makes complete sense. I wish you the very best!
Thanks for the tips, John. I just got a biscuit joiner on Friday so this is timely information.
I’m about to make my first table top and I’m using biscuits for the first time, too. Thanks for the timely video!!
Nice to know. I liked the glue squeeze out removal tip- very clever! Thanks Jon.
Excellent job explaining this helpful tip. Wonderful looking project.
Just over 4 mins but a lot of great tips, thank You
The way it is usually explained is that the biscuit swells, you sand the top, then when they dry out they contract back to normal leaving a depression. I think what this comes down to is that no one has seen it happen but they keep repeating it because every one else does. If you are looking for time saving, forget the biscuits and just use clamping cauls. Just as effective and they only take minutes. Much faster than cutting all those biscuit slots. I tried the biscuit method one time. Never again. It took forever.
Thanks for this great tip Jon, same problem occur when drywall is not good installed/taped under grazing light omg .
Nice information. I love working with lamellos, started with woodworking just a few weeks ago. So next time, when i start into a project thats more difficult I keep your tip in mjnd.
Useful video and good timing because I just got a biscuit joiner. Thank you!
Thanks Jon good video and great advice on using them properly for a professional job
Great video, thanks only thing I’d say is it would be logical the biscuits increase the joint strength since there’s additional glued surfaces. I enjoyed it
Donald Chio yes it seems so. However, I’ve seen a test performed here on RUclips proving that a biscuit joint is not stronger. I know that sounds counter-intuitive, but hey it’s science!
That's a great tip Jon! I wasn't aware this was a possibility. Thank you for sharing this!!
So glad I watched a 2nd video. Very helpful tips!!!
Thanks Jon! I’ve stayed away from using biscuits for alignment for just exactly the reason you pointed out how to avoid! Maybe I’ll try and borrow one to give it a try and watch the results over a year of weather changes. Agree that they shouldn’t be a problem is no glue applied which isn’t necessary for their purpose of alignment for top surfaces.
I noticed you don’t use a caul or clamps touching surface to prevent cupping up (or bowing)? I’d be surprised if you said you never had that problem in all the years you’ve been woodworking?
Thanks , clamps on the top and bottom help and I try not to over tighten
Wow. You are using very beautiful wood. The customer must be paying big bucks!
Thanks for the tip. I often use biscuits often.
Cool tutorial 👌. I appreciate it.
Another option is to wait longer before final sanding and/or scraping. When the biscuit is glued the wood will swell. If it's sanded before the wood dries thoroughly, telegraphing can occur when it _does_ dry and shrinks back.
Excellent tip for the biscuits, thanks for sharing!
Thanks for this. Very concise , very clear and very informative!
Agree, Biscuits are the way I've helped align boards for many yrs ;)
Great video Jon! I have always shied away from biscuit jointers being nervous about the telegraphing you speak of. Now having a better understanding I believe I'll give one a try. Thank you for sharing this tip
Pretty cool tip, never really thought about telegraphing before but I will in the future. Thanks
Ive always glued my biscuits but placed them lower... Looks like I'll stop that now. Thanks Jon!
I always learn so much from you! Thank you!
I’ve always found that with a proper table saw set up you can easily rip tongue and grooves into the boards . And it’s fast to
Learned a few new tips here, thanks Jon!
Very informative indeed sir. I presume this applies to dowels also.? I am going to attach a hard maple face frame to 24mn birch plywood I guess it can still happen in this case? Thank you in advance. Chris
Thanks, I’m not sure about dowels, but I don’t think the telegraphing would be as severe. I think the biscuits expand with the glue and when the top is sanded more material is sanded off and as it dries over time the material is pulled back down.
Great video, may I ask where you found your blue ibeam clamps?
For more than 35 years I’ve been using biscuits to join boards, and always put them dead Center of the material, unless the material is more than 22mm, then I will used 2 deep.
Not once have I ever had telegraphing.
I’ve never heard of and can’t imagine compressed beech biscuits shrinking to a smaller size than when they’re first used to cause this effect? That’s the whole point of the glue, it swells the biscuits to hold the material in place whilst it dries.
I also always keep my biscuits in an air tight container to prevent moisture degradation.
Obviously a good solution to a problem other people must have!
I have an old coffee table where I can see the biscuits, I don’t think anyone else can though. I’m planning on building the same design soon and I’ll try to point them out in a video
Learning questions. Why the sawdust? Do you rub in then wait a few minutes then wet wipe off? What is your thoughts on wet wipe away effects of the glue? I've heard letting glue set up for a few minutes then dull scrap away excess. Thanks
Thanks Jon! Great demonstration.
I may have to pull my biscuit joiner out the drawer (the place tools go to die). I've had problems in the past, but I'm pretty sure this will solve them.
Sure this may happen if you’re too close to the surface on any wood. However, if your 1/4”+ on a hardwood, I highly doubt it. There is a huge difference between Pine, Poplar and Oak. I just built a 84x42 farm table form 8/4 white oak. I double biscuited it (one top and one bottom) approx every 8”. I also used a Kreg pocket screw on the under side. This thing is stout and not moving! I do not expect or anticipate telegraphing. Check with me in a year or two.
Thank Jon, great video and very informative. Thumbs up!
Great tip. Thank you for sharing.
Thank you for sharing appreciate you taking the time to informants of these things I have never thought of that
That Sapele is really beautiful wood!
Question for you Jon, if the Biscuits are compressed when they are mufactured, thus the markings on them, and also intended to swell when in contact with wood glue, how are they shinking more than what you think they do? There is dictintive difference on the brands that make biscuits, quality wise, but the process is the same.
that wood is beautiful!
So how do you adjust the height of the biscuits? Add shims under the tool I assume because it’s in a fixed position, right?
So is the consensus it’s safer or smarter to put biscuits in the middle versus closer to the top or bottom?
It makes sense to someone who knows nothing about the subject but is embarking on using biscuits for the first time.
I did not knew this point, thanks for sharing.
Hi Jon, great video and tips. My boards don't line-up on its edge when I cut the slot using my new Ryobi biscuit joiner. To overcome, I change the hight slightly and make a wider slot on the second pass. As a result, the biscuits are not sitting snug in the slot. Is this is a problem with the joiner you reckon? Quite frustrated and about to return the machine.
Very nice tip.
Nice tip. To be clear, is there glue on the biscuit but not in the slot. I'm referencing Joe of Joe's Basement. IT'S not clear to me.
The is in advance.
I'm late to the party, but I might add that if one side will not be seen, as on a table I will often add pocket holes to the joint to strengthen it. I'm not sure if this is the best practice but it does make for a very solid tabletop.
Maybe. Been doing this for over 30 years, and I have never seen telegraphing. Good thing about doing things over a long time is I can't remember where I glued and where I didn't. So I have a true measure of the results, if not the causes.
I had never heard that shrinking causes a problem. We do seem to be in an area where "It shrinks, it swells, it contradicts itself". The reality is that biscuits are a nice snug fit, when moisture equalizes I don't believe they are going to swell or shrink. Sometimes it is hard to get glued joints together if one has a lot of biscuits on a job. If one was the kind of shop where they let the glue set for 30 minutes before passing the work through the planer, maybe they could shrink down. I have never seen anyone provide actually data on this. Why isn't this a problem with thicker dominos, dowels, floating tenons, or slip joints?
I sometime stack two biscuits in a 3/4" joint, so they are pretty near the surface, still haven't seen print through. Makes for a strong joint.
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Nice video.!! can enyone please tell me the name of the song that plays wille this gentleman is working..?? I am trying to find it for along time now. thank you 😊
I learned a lot here - I thought the way buscuits worked was the glue would cause the biscuit to expand inside the cutout.
I think my takeaway here is just to not add biscuits to panel glue-ups. They add no strength to the finished joint, if something goes wrong with the tool setup during the slotting process they might constrain the boards out of alignment in a way that's difficult to fix, if the panel is cut later you risk exposing the biscuit, and it could show unsightly divots in the finish. Meanwhile I could just...not use biscuits and align the top with cauls while it's in the clamps. The risks/downsides seem to outweigh the benefits here.
What is the widest board you recommend to join together to avoid ballooning at the joint line? Is 8” wide too much?
Great tip so any telegraphing comes through the bottom!
It's interesting to me how people from various parts of the US pronounce wood names differently. You pronounce Sapele, sa-peel-e whereas I've always known it as sa-pell-ay (I'm in central NY). I'm curious to know who's correct, or if there even is a correct pronunciation. I'm also curious to know how you pronounce Padauk.
Hey Jon love your programs. Hate to bother you with what may seem like a trivial question. But I was wondering in your experience what Brand biscuit jointer would you recommend. Ive seen a lot of pros and cons of many brands. Thanks in advance.
I have a triton, not great. I’ve heard good things about the dewalt
Thank you so much for another great informative video!
What do you feel is the best thing to do to actually add strength to the joint if biscuits do not? Thanks
Dominos
Thank you Jon. Love your channel! Keep up the great work. I just see so many people make videos on both and some seem to knock the dominos.
love those clamps, who makes them out of interest?