270cc dual engine kart fast at race track, not driftingn donut burning Gixxer
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- Опубликовано: 25 июн 2011
- Helmet cam footage at NCMP starts at 3:45 mark. Custom restored Margay with dual BM-130 engines, racing kart from mid-late 70's, dual engines totaling 270cc, methanol fuel ... much higher speed than a modern 125cc shifter kart. MCP brake upgrade, dual rear Ripley vented discs and customized brake bias adjuster for 3 master cylinders. Pipes by RLV, vintage Burco oil bath clutches, digatron dual display gauge.
for info on racing and restoring old karts like this visit: VKAKarting.com
Update August 2012: see video of new vintage dual Invader Kart built for 2012 season, its 50lbs lighter and sports dual Alky carbs on each engine...:
• 270cc dual engine kart... 
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Finally a video of a powerful kart on a track, not just burning out and doing crappy donuts
takes skill to drive on a track like that, blasting 100mph down short straights, into turns .. doing burn outs and donuts is easy and any fool can do it.
I love how the twin engines make it sound like theres another kart RIGHT behind you!
Yeah electric might be the way to go with a lot of things but look at what you'd be missing out on.nothing like the sound of pure horse power and the great smell of race fuel and alcohol.love that stuff
Ahhh Memories. Raced 125 Macs and the twins were a blast. When the clutches were right, what a ride!
I just love the sound of duals!
Whining,pitching and growling all at the same time!
Nice kart man!
Very nice machine, love the vintage stuff. Brings back a lot of good times for me.
Engines singing in sweet harmony together...Nice one..Love the stereo effect..
Damn. That is a badass rear brake setup!
Unless you've been in one of these or stood near one, it's nearly impossible to comprehend their acceleration and speed. Because they have high engagement rpm centrifugal clutches and no gear box they don't sound like they're accelerating as fast as they actually are, and, the acceleration is smooth like a jet, not herky jerky.
Those little 2 strokes sound amazing spot on
I REALLY LIKE THE 45* ANGLE BRICKS? THAT ARE ON THE INSIDE OF EACH CORNER...WHAT A WONDERFULL WAY TO NOT ONLY TEAR THE CART UP,BUT ITS GOT TO ABSOULUTELY A JOY EVERYTIME YOU HIT THOSE STUTTERS,,EVERYTIME EVERY LAP...BRAVO
I can look this master peace over all day long, just Awesome thank you for sharing this with the world
That is so fast! Awesome. Great driving too.
Reminds me of a Banshee! When I was on it, it sounded like a 125cc was chasing right behind me! Wild sound!
Inace 100% extra
Svaka cast na ozbiljnoj prepravci
That looks like a lot of fun. Awesome kart.
Great Job on the restoration! Most of the racing back than was truly done by man not a tech e or computer assistant and the battery is still used as it should to start it! Awesome Job when you put one of these on dirt it is a Blast.
Absolutely mental! Sounds wicked!
awesome power, must be a total thrill on the big tracks! I'm restoring a 1969 Rupp Mean Machine now, a vintage road racing kart that has two IAME B-Bomb engines (270cc total) and will be running it at road races in the USA next year.
2 Sheeppower.... "baaah bah bah bah... baaah bah bah bah... bah baaah baaAAAAAAHHHHHHHH bAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"
Beautiful cart by the way.
Nice job on the kart guys. You have been very patient with your replies to some of these posts.Here in Oz we still race twins on the dirt so I respect what you have done here. Still have a couple of short stroke rotary Komets in the shed. Vintage racing looks like it could be a good place to go when the time comes. I have some great pics of a twin mac powered,supercharged Leekart that was run in the States by a friend back in the day,pre expansion chambers.Quite a machine.Thanks for the post.
stewartfan98 hi my name is mike and i read your go kart posting! You mentioned you had at that time a couple of kart engines in the shed? Are you interested in selling any parts or engines? I am building a kart like in the video!
That thing pulls nicely!
Finally a kart with real brakes. Anyone doubting must not know what happens when rear only skids at high speed.
sounds like someones yelling ahhhh when it revs up, thats pretty awesome
That's the sound of a 2-cycle. They make most 4-cycles sound like lawn mowers.
Nice setup, My brother in law has a Margay Twin K88's (ex Hong Kong GP) from early 70's.
Burco oil clutches on the engine, centrifugal, weights can be added or taken off shoes to adjust engage speed (usually 10,000 to 11,000rpm). These period correct authentic clutches are required for the VKA vintage class this runs in.
@kyle pace the carb is below the piston attached to the crank because its a 2 stroke. The piston moving up pulls fuel in, then whdn the piston moves down it pushes the mixture up into the cylinder.
its a solid live axle, both rear tires always rotate at the same rpm.
engines use oil bath clutches set for over 10,000rpm engagement, so they provide little deceleration entering a turn compared to direct drive. There are 2 separate braking systems on the rear axle, in case one fails.
Im glad you specified not for burning donuts...there is way too much of that going on...its fun...but lets get down to business
no BS, just facts. These karts run at Adams Kart track, New Castle, Barnesville, Camden, Brodhead, TNT Kartways .... lap times have been within tenths of all time track records, running 60 durometer hard tires and 15 laps of practice. Digitron gauges show rpm/speed faster than shifters on the straights (11/57 gears @14,500rpm do the math). Horsepower rules on straights ..going from a modern TAG to 125CC shifter is like going from a 125CC shifter to one of these "old" C-Open karts, come watch.
Adams…. Used to live with a few miles of there.
“It smells like Adams” when they’re running Klotz or Blendzall.
Good Looking Kart...Wicked Fast...Nice Job
Wow that is soo frickin awsome i mean just look at how green your grass is
We run these at Vintage Karting Association (google it) events all over the USA ... some reproduction frames are available, but the motors and many parts have to be found and restored.
Incredibly wicked.
Solid axle, each engine has it's own adjustable oil bath centrifugal clutch (vintage Burco clutches). Racing kart chassis' are simple tubing frames, for the kart to turn, the inside rear wheel lifts in the turn with weight transfer to outside tires, both engines must put power to the ground through the outside rear tire.
Hi, great video ! Are those new brake components that you are using ? What brand, and where did you get them ? I have a Cheetah with no front brakes, and can't find them anywhere. Also, on your seat, what model is that ? Does Tillett sell them with that type of covering, or did you put that material on yourself ? If so, where did you get it ? Kart looks and runs great !
Cool build
This is a vintage Sprint kart, they run on tight tracks 1/3 to 1 mile long, the short straights and selected gearing never allow reaching top potential speed ... the kart is still accelerating at the end of the straight when the brakes are applied.
yes, that is the sound of dual engines, the harmonics change constantly, since the engines are not tied together, the clutches slip ... sometimes it's hard to tell if someone is actually behind you!
That thing is badass.
sick setup
BM 96 TT motors were 100cc engines. These motors are the big BM-130 engines that came stock at 135cc, and were allowed later on the C-Open class to be bored to 150cc each.
Great video! How much did you spend on everything for the kart?
The oil bath automatic centrifugal clutches don't really allow using one engine to start the other.
It's a dual Margay Pro-X chassis, with some modifications.
It's for safety, in case one system fails. The front and each of the rear brakes are independent hydraulic systems. They don't fail often, but brake failures are by far the leading cause of accidents in vintage karting. The vented discs are overkill IMO, see the response video above, its my newer built Invader repro kart, it has my next generation braking system, designed a lot of it.
i want to build a dual engine supercharged busa kart. i was thinking mid-engine mount, dual chain to driveshaft to limited slip dif. what do you guys think?
the engine havce the opposite direction? how did it work? is it installed different way?
have you ever geared one motor differently then the other....so then like you have one geared for acceleration then you engage the other motor that is geared for top speed.... would that work ? if so im pretty sure you would have one fast kart
Does it run centrifugal clutches or an external plate clutch system
Could you theoretically cut the axle in the middle as you have two engines/brakes? Would this reduce the need to lift the inside rear wheel through corners?
more braking power (which isnt needed) but the biggest plus is the ability to cool quicker so that the brakes dont fade. Since ths is an older kart I dont think it has front brakes.
I need those front hubs and spindles
The trick is to build each engine exactly the same, same porting, carb setup etc... Then the weight of the clutch shoe is matched to within 0.2 grams each, and final clutch adjustments are made using the dual digtial tach gauge on the steering wheel.
There are front brakes in the vid. I think the two rear brakes are a design flaw, that is unless @VintagePowerSport explains otherwise. I don't see a need for the added inertia of that weight of the rear axle assembly.
Do these 2-stroke engines provide much deceleration when you let off the throttle? From what I read, these are rotary valved engines? I'm not very familiar with them. I've only worked on a couple outboards recently (fixed valves with reeds).
Yes it makes complete sense I don't know what that engineer was thinking
Is this new castle. Or is it spiceland. I live in Winchester which is close. I used to drive truck and loved going to that flying j next door! Cool video
check out the video response above, I just built this newer more tricked out kart for 2012 vintage racing season ... this was over $12,000 and hundreds of hours of custom design and fabrication time. Good used karts from this class can be found for sale at events, vintage kart forums, ebay etc... for $6,000 to 9,000, actually a great performance ride for the money.
That makes sense. So the clutch just sychs everything up?
Do you think it could use maybe a smaller rear sprocket? Seems like it's revving out a bit too soon.
nice cart and good build. sounds like one engine is in front of the other? is this a throttle setup? if so its a good idea for track like exiting a corner with out full power then it nicely feeds in. did u build them pipes? very good but looking at heat on outlets seems one is running better or hotter than the other? might be just me??
+ajs222222 sometimes the engines aren't exactly tuned together, and its hard to adjust the carbs once a race is going ... I tune them in practice, then hope for the best while racing. The pipes on this kart were made by RLV, a leading kart pipe maker, specially for these 135cc rotary valve motors.
How do those old Karts perform chassis wise compared to new karts? Is there really a difference.
Is that a solid rear axle, or do you have each engine hooked up to it's wheel independently?
@dc5000123 - it really only needs one brake rotor on the rear for stopping power, the 2nd one is there in case the other fails. Yes, these was the very top of Sprint Kart racing back in the day, the most powerful class of Sprint Karts ever raced. Only the big names drove them. My helmet cam portion of this vid was shot at an event weekend before last at New Castle IN, big names came to play ... Lake Speed (NASCAR & World Karting Champ) and Mark Dismore (Indy cars) and others...
Fast track hope to go there soon!
Does left engine turn in the opposite direction?
was it hard to get both of the engines pulling even?
Nice kart !
What, mid '70s Margay, like a Panther-X ?
Can't wait 'till I get my dual together.
Local track still lets duals run.
How much would a starter kart usually go for, Im thinking it should be around $1500-$2000, Is there a website that I can check for karts and tracks around my area, I live in NYC, Any info to get me started would be great thanks!!!
What did you use for an axle??
Is it better than a moder 250cc single engine kart?
Funny to hear the engine difference as the chassis unloads in the corners.
Is this the track that can be seen along Rt. 70 ?
its a bear to get through the turns compared to modern high tech karts ... but down the chute is pure joy, usually 5-10mph faster on Sprint tracks than 125 ICC shifters. 2008 Karter News published timed speed of 104mph at Adams Kart track.
these are BM-130 engines, 2 of them. These are 2 stroke engines with rotary valve induction, sporting 34mm methanol carbs. Each engine is 135cc and fully ported. I believe the reality is that these put out around 35hp each, but others claim 40+. Performance wise, each engine is between a modern TAG 125cc and a ICC 125cc engine .. so when this class was run years ago, they were the most powerful Sprint karts raced in USA, possibly ever in the world?
yeah. a lot of times, ive found that your limited in the size of the engine gear, so you have to change the axel gear most times.
@VintagePowerSport :
How much Horse Power ? Awsome Kart! And max. Speed?
Got one with a 250CC Shifter from CR 250 AF. Hell of a Kart. 82 Hp at all and top Speed of 230 km/h. Sorry for my bad english im German.
It sounds like to karts racing not one. A close race though. You can defiantly tell the engines work the same kart. Just two engines. Awesome power trough the turns!
I would love to know how you built it
is this for sale? if so, is it still in the same condition as shown here?
Not a cart racer by any means or definition, but I always enjoyed the kiddie carts at the beach. They are fun and I always won when people wanted to "race". Now that I'm older I want to build or buy a good dirt track type cart, or maybe even see about opening a small cart track (dirt) around here. Anyway, I think the thing is sweet, fasts, and a nice work of art. Also, when looking at the comments, there are obviously some people that know how to race and some like me that never thought about that kind of power and speed from something that small. It takes a pair of testicles to ride on that thing! I used to run door slammers at the local drag strip and even though a camera makes you appear to be going about twice as fast as you actually are, that thing was hauling the mail on the straights. Good job driving IMHO. I also agree that a turn approached correctly and driven through using the apex eliminates the needs for very much corrective steering. You can slide around for fun but fast times are set with the tires stuck to the track in most cases. Just my humble opinion.............................
You should it's really fun
Racing (especially go-karts) is often the most fun one can generally have. And, you don't have to be young. Some of the fastest I know of at the long tracks are in their mid-60's. Short tracks are generally for those under 40. On asphalt, racing tires reach max traction at roughly 5% slip. Harder, non-racing tires reach max grip at maybe 10 to 20% slip. Max traction on dirt is much higher than that.
What do you mean by bigger gears? Sorry if that sounds stupid, I'm actually looking into building a similar cart.
depends what gearing is run ... it accelerates all the way to the braking point on all the Sprint tracks across the USA that I have run it on (Adams Kart track, New Castle, Barnesville, Camden, etc....). It's not a good idea to twist these older big size motors much over 15,000rpm, I usually set gearing for a rpm peak of 14,000-14,500rpm, and clutch engage speed of 10,500rpm.
yes, its a 12v winch. The winch stand picks the kart off the ground and raises it up to wheel it around and for working on it .. also drops it back to the ground. The kart weighs 260lbs, going karting is a lot of physical work between driving and lifting equipment ... any help is a good thing!
Big vehicle. In 1965 I had A Bug Scorpion with twin McCulloch MC100's. It weighed 110lbs.
comparing 1 engine to 2, with the same gearing, 2 engines will come up to speed faster (more power = more acceleration). In kart racing, when 2 engines are run, typically, 1 or 2 more teeth on the engine clutch can be run ..this is a huge change in gearing and in top speed. At a track like New Castle (this video), a modern single engine TAG will run 11/77 gears (engine/axle), my dual will pull 11/57 at 15+mph faster top end.
That looks like fun to me
sounds cool.
Not experienced in go karts at all but I'm curious. Why one gear? Why not multiple?
I came across this video and was wondering how you get both engines to run at the same RPM. I`m assuming by what I could see in the video that the cart has a live axle. What are you doing to get the engines to run in sync with each other as to not bog one down while the other is doing all the work ? So they share the work, electronics ?
+TWISTEDSTRINGS69 someone reply I want to know also
RAIDER69
They each have their own centrifugal clutch, which slips until the kart speed "catches up" to the engine speed, after which they'll be at the same rpm (assuming they have the same gear ratio).
parece un par de parillas con variador cientrifugo Pero estoy abierto a sugerencias
well in that case, thats bad ass. i hate when people take credit for other people work.. to figure out you guys built it makes it all the much cooler. hats off to you vitangepowersport. sorry for the miss interpretation
Yes circa, it weights around 90 kg, and with me on around 170, so its 2kg per PS.
That's a fu__in' work of art!
How much did the build cost all together?
what is the top speed and HP power of the cart?
the first part of the track seemed to be like the top gear test track
muy bueno!!!
como es el nombre del tema que se escucha de fondo??
is the axle split into 2?
it isn't, but the engines need to be synced up very well for this setup to really work, which these ones aren't really. Bith engines have centrifugal clutches, so getting off the line isn't an issue.