A $100 tent that weighs 100oz is $1 per oz. That doesn’t make it a great value for the weight. When upgrading gear, cost per oz “saved” in weight is a better measurement. For example if I have a 35oz tent and I’m looking at a 20oz tent that costs $700, that’s $46.67 per oz to save 15oz of weight. A 25oz tent that costs $500 is $50 per oz to save 10oz, so the more expensive tent is a lower cost per oz saved.
@brett9817 I get that, but I was trying to compare higher end gear, so they are comparable. My thought is $619 more worth spending if it doesn't last very long.
"A 25oz tent that costs $500 is $50 per oz to save 10oz" ...and that doesn't even work if you didn't subtract the cost of a 35 ounce tent if you haven't bought it yet.
@ I understand and it was a very good comparison and breakdown. I look at it as cost versus experience. Does the high end gear improve the experience enough to justify the higher cost but less durability? There are so many shapes and sizes of people and different reasons why they are out there, so it’s a tough question. There’s no doubt a 50lb pack vs a 20lb pack improves the experience, but 20lb and under starts getting into diminishing returns. A $3k+ comfort setup with a 12lb base weight is definitely not the smartest use of money compared to a 20lb, $1k setup, but if it makes you happy and keeps you too broke to buy drugs, then it’s a win, lol.
@@wisenber If you own a 35 ounce tent and want to upgrade to save weight and are looking at a $500 tent that weighs 25 ounces, then you are spending $500 to save 10 ounces. That works out to $50 per ounce spent for that 10 ounce savings. Math IS pretty hard, however I prefaced my statment with "when upgrading gear" which makes the assumption that you own a 35 ounce tent already. You wouldn't subract the cost of something you already own since you are "upgrading" that gear.
The math doesn’t work for me, you should be comparing dollars spent for ounces saved, otherwise the heavier items will naturally cost less per ounce but the goal is lighter. Will I spend an extra $300 to save a pound? Absolutely, I will!
And yet you are here… as in every other vlog 😂 you do have an obsession Dan. Watching you and Dan (Dan & Dan) the other day was enlightening. I do have my list of gear I’m working on and your on top at the moment. Maybe when I’m 75 🤔
Casual weekend hiker here. I went all out at the start but with multiple failures in a short amount of time & limited usage (none Zpacks) I now buy mid range durable products & have slowing swapped out my pack as initial purchase failed
I think people also need to look at how they hike/treat/use their gear. All the gear your showing is great. But styles differ . I have had a zpacks pack (the first arc) from 2016 and it still is on great shape after lots of hikes including 2 thrus. I also have a gossamer Gear that shredded in its first year but I took it on a complete bushwacking trip. On the other hand the X mid pitches so easily for me at the end of the day, whereas the soloplex in my opinion is very particular and fussy about it's pitch and creates more issues for me. Everyone's miles vary and I am a gear hog but I've been learning how to pick from the closet for how I behave on the road ahead.
Totally understand. I was just noting I have never had the issues you have and nothing that affected any hikes. I have a cousin who’s zpack pack wore out after AT + half of PCT. He admitted he exceeded the max load weight often. It is certainly a balance of personal priorities.
I'm about to do the review of my ULA circuit backpack that has a lifetime warranty and is a lot more durable for only 9 oz more. If you put the 2 of them side by side you see the big difference in materials and quality.
I like the per unit valuation of the differing products. I'm a fan of ZPacks and have backpacked with them. I wonder if you have used all of the products on the AT as well. Since you only used the ZPacks items for that strenuous trail on a minute to minute basis, it seems fair to test the alternatives in the same manner.
The Hyperlight trekking pole Dyneema tent and the Tarptent trekking pole Dyneema tent are the two others in this space. I’ve hiked with the Durston Pro 2, looked at the other two and am currently backpacking with my wife and a Zpacks off-set Trio. Wish you luck.
I just loveee watching your reviews! You’re the most relatable hiker to me and your thru hike was freaking amazing .. Looks like I’m going in 2026 🙏🏼🙌 next year is out 🥹
I love your videos, but this is so poorly thought though I only get out a few times a year, but I look at the cost per ounce saved when looking to upgrade gear. So when I upgradedy tarp I looked at the cost of each tarp and calculated the ounces saved for each option I then looked at the cost per ounce saved. This gave me a better heuristic to make my decision.
I spent a lot of money to be as lightweight as possible to complete the AT. I learned the lightest doesn't mean long-lasting. If you’re a weekend guy, this stuff may last for years. When you thru hike, you may want to consider durability.
My hard earned cash is only trumped by my hard-earned time! I will spend whatever I need to make sure that my precious time on the trail is not wasted, and the big money I usually have to spend getting there. Lightweight makes my time far more enjoyable, in part because I have shoulders worn out by contact sports. Never had durability issues with Z Packs. Have really appreciated their performance and light weight.
I love lightweight and spent a lot of money to get a sub 15 pound base weight to hike the Appalachian Trail. However, after dealing with the durability issues several times, in my opinion, the backpack isn't worth it.
I have the Fanny pack, bottle pocket and possum gloves. Love them. I am leery of UL packs because I am 61 and I need my pack to carry. I love my ULA Circuit, older version, but I know I have little to compare it to other than my previous standard Gregory and osprey. BTW, I’m hard on my ULA. No problem with it ever. I have not done a long thru hike, but have done several shorter, like the John Muir Trail.
Nice video Mike. To continue pulling this thread, take the winner and do this same comparison against popular non UL packs/tents (Osprey Atmos, Big Agnes Tiger Wall, etc). That answers the question of “Is it worth it to even go UL in the first place?”
Really, considering the cost per unit weight isn't really the best way to mathematically compare backpacking gear. You're not really trying to get more for your money, you're trying to get less! The better thing to do is to multiply cost by the weight so you get dollar-ounces or dollar-grams depending on your units. Then you can better compare two gear items where you are looking for a lower overall number. Comparison in dollar-ounces: backpacks: Z-packs Arc Haul Ultra 50 - 11,616 Duston Kakwa 55 - 7800 (best) ULA Ultra Circuit - 13,775 tents: Z-packs offset duo - 15,501 Durston X-mid 2 Pro - 13246 Gossamer Gear The Two - 7520 (best) Of course, you can still decide to pay more of a premium to get the weight down. Happy trails to you and Leo.
A lot depends on keeping ultralight pack loads under the recommended max and being gentle on all ultralight gear. If you carry heavy loads and/or you are careless or rough with your gear, ultralight gear will probably not meet your requirements. Personally, I will pay up for the lightest possible setup to get my base weight to 6-9lbs. I don’t care if I have to buy all new gear for each long distance trail. My body appreciates the lighter load and I have less injuries etc. I just dropped $1,100 on a Timmermade false bottom bag, rain jacket, puffy, and alpha direct hoodie + $300 on a Zpacks Nero 50 and other assorted items. My base weight will be sub 7lbs for an upcoming winter thru hike of the Natchez Trace Trail. Totally worth it to me but the value/money equation is personalized and subjective.
@christinadimauro7673 I don't mind spending money, and I also want lightweight. I also want it to last my Backpack never exceeded 25 pounds, that is a 4 day food carry with water, and it broke before I got to Damascus.
@christinadimauro7673 I try to take good care of my gear as well, and it broke twice in 2274 miles. I also had another person that theirs broke the same way as mine.
@@ISuckatHikingthat’s interesting, I’ve used zpacks since 2015 and never had a failure and I’ve hiked over 20,000 miles in that time. I’ve replaced items after putting tons of miles on them but I expected that.
500 miles in on my zpacks arc haul 55L, 60+ nights on zpacks duplex no failures except a broken stake. Value for money high. I will also note that my arc haul is one of the old dynema ones and has been rubbed, scraped, jabbed, and stabbed by granite, trees, and mud with no holes and still water tight.
A really important factor in this equation is how much disposable income people have. If you make $60k a year and have a family... you are going to be really hard pressed to buy expensive gear. If you make $80k and have no family... spending $800 on a tent may not seem that bad. Personally, I prefer to take on heavier packs (like Osprey) as maintaining an air gap between my back and the pack is critical in preventing major back moisture from sweat. My winter pack is like 6.5 pounds, it is very heavy but the support is excellent, it is super comfortable and carrying 40lbs or so of gear is much more comfortable with this than a UL pack. So far my lighter 50L pack which I use for rucking is solid and I think very little of just tossing it down. I figure my pack is going to be the item that takes the most punishment and is the absolute largest factor in comfort as I wear it all day
I started with osprey packs with back vents, and the zpacks ultra actually has one as well. None of them prevented back sweat for me. The lighter you get, the more you enjoy the hike. However, you lose joy if you spend a lot of money on gear that doesn't last.
@@ISuckatHiking A lot of packs do have the mesh on the back, I've found Osprey's to be much further from the pack than other brands, but I can absolutely see the benefit of an even lighter pack especially if you have a lot of vertical gain. And of course, spending a lot of money on something to have it fail is very frustrating. I'm also in a slightly different boat as I use backpacking and rucking primarily as exercise so weight isn't actually necessarily a downside for me. You actually hit the nail on the head, the lighter you get the more you enjoy it. Hopefully, in the next year or so I'll have shed nearly as much weight as my pack. Looking to UL myself!
If you want pack durability and ease of carry even at 40lbs, the 45oz REI Flash 55 for $199 should be considered. It has load lifters, great water bottle pockets, adjustable torso length, and hip belt pockets. Most single hikers do not need a two person tent and I am waiting for the Durston x-dome 1 in 2025 for $369 which weighs 34oz with tent, rain fly and poles. Any pack that has to be replaced twice on a thru hike is worthless to me. IMO, for $569 you cannot beat this combo.
How much does a Cubic metre of concrete cost per ounce? I am not taking one of those with me backpacking. I am happy to pay for the engineering and development that Z-pack has put in to provide the lightest items in the world. I am buying the lightest item in the world. I pay a premium price. I take extremely good care of these products. Some people buy supercars so that they can have the fastest car in the world. They pay premium prices. They don't treat them badly. They don't compare them to shit cheap cars that come with cup holders. Thank you, Ray.
I take really good care of my items and am willing to pay for a premium. If that high-end car keeps breaking down, is it worth the premium? This is why I proposed the question.
Great video! I always say - What’s the point of a warranty if the construction quality is lacking. Mid trail with a long way to the nearest town, I don’t want my backpack to malfunction. Zpacks have superb design, but bad construction quality. Durston has superb design and insanely good construction quality. ULA has good construction quality but design is not as good as Durston. So I go for Durston. I ordered a Zpacks Arc Haul costing $700 in total with all the extras. And the pack arrived with a manufacturing defect. I contacted Zpacks and they said no problem, they will participate with $50 for shipping internationally. And then I watched your video showing the fails mid trail, and I was like nope, I’m using the Durston Kakwa instead. Double stitching wonder of a pack. Win! Zpacks can solve their problems by manufacturing with as quality a manufacturer as Durston does, since Zpacks designs are fantastic!
@michelstronguin6974 it's almost like we are paying for the warranty knowing we are going to have to use it. I would be going with a Durston Kakwa if I had to do it over again
I like your videos and I hope you continue putting them out, but I cannot understand the "cost-per-ounce" method of comparing different equipment. If you had three tents that all weighted exactly the same, then cost per ounce might be a good tool to evaluate price. However, cost-per-ounce does not take in to account durability, or one's ability to carry that extra weight that might bring the cost-per-ounce down. It just seems like a false economy.
I was just using it to help understand value for what we are receiving. Are we paying for materials, warranty, or long-term use? With Zpacks, I think they know they will have to fix, repair, or replace items, and that's why it's priced that way. The ULA pack is made with much higher quality parts, but that comes with weight, but its warranty is for life! I think Durston focus is quality at a reasonable price.
Zpacks Arc Hauls has its uses, but also its limitations. I have a 70l Arc Haul and I love the pack, as it's great for summer hikes with a ventilated back, but as it has only a very UL carbon frame and 100 Ultra fabric its indeed a pack you need to be gentle with, with the hip belt pockets mine weights 697g, my Durston Kakwa 55 is 879g so 26% heavier but lacking the ventilated back. It's a sturdier pack, I like it for the early spring and late fall seasons. I wouldn't say that Zpack produces low-quality goods, but the brand's focus is extreme UL, where the materials used are already very fragile and the equipment needs to be handled accordingly.
Thank you for the interesting video, I feel it is missing a few elements for your consideration. How about the Tarpent Dipole 2 Li or even for price comparing the cheaper Durston X-Mid2? The Tarpent is a Dyneema trek pole tent probably closer to the first two. One aspect you did not mention is construction. If for example, the Durston is better designed, has better material or is better made, maybe you will not have to deal with the hassle of dealing with the failure during your long hike, having to call the company, send it for repair and have nothing while it is being repaired/replaced or the cost of sending the gear to the manufacturer. I don't know if or how you would be able to get stats on failure and/or repair but it would be a good input into this equation where you determine if the gear is worth the money.
Shop around my pack weight in at 27lbs everything food and water included , backpack scream 50, outdoor vital sleeping bag, lanshan treking tent all for 450. Shop around
@ohjolt2 heavier but costs less there is also a huge difference in how they are made. My main point is lighter cost more but may not be made for durability, so is it really better?
Zpacks uses an American labor force , and Durston uses a Chinese work force .so the labor rates are way different. This is the way I look at the cost of gear .I have a Z-packs arc haul 60 , and a durston xmid pro 2 . The cost of both these items is about as much as a week at an Airbnb . So I feel like I get a good value in my gear versus the cost.
I was just using it to help understand value for what we are receiving. Are we paying for materials, warranty, or long-term use? With Zpacks, I think they know they will have to fix, repair, or replace items, and that's why it's priced that way. The ULA pack is made with much higher quality parts, but that comes with weight, but its warranty is for life! I think Durston focus is quality at a reasonable price.
If you’re only using a “unit price” of $/oz’s your best choice would be a black trash bag! It’s lighter than your selections and is less expensive! You need to include function, performance, durability, etc.
@glenloewen7507 i didn't compare cheap gear it was comparing gear that is all the same except 1 tent. Knowing what I know now, i would have made different choices. I wanted people to just think about the durability of Ultralight gear with the extreme cost
@ I get that. It’s hard to come up with a good formula to quantify that concept. I am doing the PCT next year and bought a loaded Arc Haul 70L for the trek. I put one season on it this year to get used to it, and I can only hope I get my money’s worth out of that purchase. It’s more comfortable than many, but I’m hoping my result goes better than yours did.
@@ISuckatHiking lighter gear is more fragile and requires special care. It’s all about what is more important to you. I am willing to take the risk. It just sucks hiking with a heavy pack. Never again. 😝
A $100 tent that weighs 100oz is $1 per oz. That doesn’t make it a great value for the weight. When upgrading gear, cost per oz “saved” in weight is a better measurement. For example if I have a 35oz tent and I’m looking at a 20oz tent that costs $700, that’s $46.67 per oz to save 15oz of weight. A 25oz tent that costs $500 is $50 per oz to save 10oz, so the more expensive tent is a lower cost per oz saved.
@brett9817 I get that, but I was trying to compare higher end gear, so they are comparable. My thought is $619 more worth spending if it doesn't last very long.
"A 25oz tent that costs $500 is $50 per oz to save 10oz"
...and that doesn't even work if you didn't subtract the cost of a 35 ounce tent if you haven't bought it yet.
@wisenber math is hard 😅
@ I understand and it was a very good comparison and breakdown. I look at it as cost versus experience. Does the high end gear improve the experience enough to justify the higher cost but less durability? There are so many shapes and sizes of people and different reasons why they are out there, so it’s a tough question. There’s no doubt a 50lb pack vs a 20lb pack improves the experience, but 20lb and under starts getting into diminishing returns. A $3k+ comfort setup with a 12lb base weight is definitely not the smartest use of money compared to a 20lb, $1k setup, but if it makes you happy and keeps you too broke to buy drugs, then it’s a win, lol.
@@wisenber If you own a 35 ounce tent and want to upgrade to save weight and are looking at a $500 tent that weighs 25 ounces, then you are spending $500 to save 10 ounces. That works out to $50 per ounce spent for that 10 ounce savings. Math IS pretty hard, however I prefaced my statment with "when upgrading gear" which makes the assumption that you own a 35 ounce tent already. You wouldn't subract the cost of something you already own since you are "upgrading" that gear.
The math doesn’t work for me, you should be comparing dollars spent for ounces saved, otherwise the heavier items will naturally cost less per ounce but the goal is lighter. Will I spend an extra $300 to save a pound? Absolutely, I will!
@@lisaszenina9788 but would you spend $619
Nice breakdown.
- Dan
Thanks Dan excited for the 2p X-dome!
The Kakwa will be my next backpack for sure
And yet you are here… as in every other vlog 😂 you do have an obsession Dan. Watching you and Dan (Dan & Dan) the other day was enlightening. I do have my list of gear I’m working on and your on top at the moment. Maybe when I’m 75 🤔
@kmichaelp4508 just do it
I prefer “passion” but obsession works too :)
Casual weekend hiker here. I went all out at the start but with multiple failures in a short amount of time & limited usage (none Zpacks) I now buy mid range durable products & have slowing swapped out my pack as initial purchase failed
What failures did you have on which products?
I think people also need to look at how they hike/treat/use their gear. All the gear your showing is great. But styles differ . I have had a zpacks pack (the first arc) from 2016 and it still is on great shape after lots of hikes including 2 thrus. I also have a gossamer Gear that shredded in its first year but I took it on a complete bushwacking trip. On the other hand the X mid pitches so easily for me at the end of the day, whereas the soloplex in my opinion is very particular and fussy about it's pitch and creates more issues for me.
Everyone's miles vary and I am a gear hog but I've been learning how to pick from the closet for how I behave on the road ahead.
I take good care of my gear, but I don't know if lighter weight gear is worth it because of the durability
Love the video! ⛺ 🎒
@@gina5827 Thanks
Totally understand. I was just noting I have never had the issues you have and nothing that affected any hikes. I have a cousin who’s zpack pack wore out after AT + half of PCT. He admitted he exceeded the max load weight often. It is certainly a balance of personal priorities.
I'm about to do the review of my ULA circuit backpack that has a lifetime warranty and is a lot more durable for only 9 oz more. If you put the 2 of them side by side you see the big difference in materials and quality.
I like the per unit valuation of the differing products. I'm a fan of ZPacks and have backpacked with them. I wonder if you have used all of the products on the AT as well. Since you only used the ZPacks items for that strenuous trail on a minute to minute basis, it seems fair to test the alternatives in the same manner.
I had friends who used the durston all the way with no issues. I am 💯 sure the ULA would also have 0 issues
The Hyperlight trekking pole Dyneema tent and the Tarptent trekking pole Dyneema tent are the two others in this space.
I’ve hiked with the Durston Pro 2, looked at the other two and am currently backpacking with my wife and a Zpacks off-set Trio.
Wish you luck.
Thanks, I'm looking forward to the durston x-dome 2p
I just loveee watching your reviews! You’re the most relatable hiker to me and your thru hike was freaking amazing .. Looks like I’m going in 2026 🙏🏼🙌 next year is out 🥹
Thanks so much!!
I love your videos, but this is so poorly thought though
I only get out a few times a year, but I look at the cost per ounce saved when looking to upgrade gear. So when I upgradedy tarp I looked at the cost of each tarp and calculated the ounces saved for each option I then looked at the cost per ounce saved. This gave me a better heuristic to make my decision.
I spent a lot of money to be as lightweight as possible to complete the AT. I learned the lightest doesn't mean long-lasting. If you’re a weekend guy, this stuff may last for years. When you thru hike, you may want to consider durability.
My hard earned cash is only trumped by my hard-earned time! I will spend whatever I need to make sure that my precious time on the trail is not wasted, and the big money I usually have to spend getting there. Lightweight makes my time far more enjoyable, in part because I have shoulders worn out by contact sports. Never had durability issues with Z Packs. Have really appreciated their performance and light weight.
I love lightweight and spent a lot of money to get a sub 15 pound base weight to hike the Appalachian Trail. However, after dealing with the durability issues several times, in my opinion, the backpack isn't worth it.
I have the Fanny pack, bottle pocket and possum gloves. Love them. I am leery of UL packs because I am 61 and I need my pack to carry. I love my ULA Circuit, older version, but I know I have little to compare it to other than my previous standard Gregory and osprey. BTW, I’m hard on my ULA. No problem with it ever. I have not done a long thru hike, but have done several shorter, like the John Muir Trail.
@@kristymoore7052 the ULA is built to last for sure
Nice video Mike. To continue pulling this thread, take the winner and do this same comparison against popular non UL packs/tents (Osprey Atmos, Big Agnes Tiger Wall, etc). That answers the question of “Is it worth it to even go UL in the first place?”
Really, considering the cost per unit weight isn't really the best way to mathematically compare backpacking gear. You're not really trying to get more for your money, you're trying to get less! The better thing to do is to multiply cost by the weight so you get dollar-ounces or dollar-grams depending on your units. Then you can better compare two gear items where you are looking for a lower overall number.
Comparison in dollar-ounces:
backpacks:
Z-packs Arc Haul Ultra 50 - 11,616
Duston Kakwa 55 - 7800 (best)
ULA Ultra Circuit - 13,775
tents:
Z-packs offset duo - 15,501
Durston X-mid 2 Pro - 13246
Gossamer Gear The Two - 7520 (best)
Of course, you can still decide to pay more of a premium to get the weight down. Happy trails to you and Leo.
That's another way to do it but we came to the same conclusion
A lot depends on keeping ultralight pack loads under the recommended max and being gentle on all ultralight gear. If you carry heavy loads and/or you are careless or rough with your gear, ultralight gear will probably not meet your requirements. Personally, I will pay up for the lightest possible setup to get my base weight to 6-9lbs. I don’t care if I have to buy all new gear for each long distance trail. My body appreciates the lighter load and I have less injuries etc. I just dropped $1,100 on a Timmermade false bottom bag, rain jacket, puffy, and alpha direct hoodie + $300 on a Zpacks Nero 50 and other assorted items. My base weight will be sub 7lbs for an upcoming winter thru hike of the Natchez Trace Trail. Totally worth it to me but the value/money equation is personalized and subjective.
@christinadimauro7673 I don't mind spending money, and I also want lightweight. I also want it to last my Backpack never exceeded 25 pounds, that is a 4 day food carry with water, and it broke before I got to Damascus.
@@ISuckatHikingmy Arc Haul 70 has over 5000 miles on it and I’ve never had an issue but, I’ll be the first to admit, I baby my gear.
@christinadimauro7673 I try to take good care of my gear as well, and it broke twice in 2274 miles. I also had another person that theirs broke the same way as mine.
@@ISuckatHikingthat’s interesting, I’ve used zpacks since 2015 and never had a failure and I’ve hiked over 20,000 miles in that time. I’ve replaced items after putting tons of miles on them but I expected that.
@christinadimauro7673 maybe the frame is made different now
500 miles in on my zpacks arc haul 55L, 60+ nights on zpacks duplex no failures except a broken stake. Value for money high. I will also note that my arc haul is one of the old dynema ones and has been rubbed, scraped, jabbed, and stabbed by granite, trees, and mud with no holes and still water tight.
Will also note that my other pack is a ULA. Love it as well, but zpack tents are my main tents.
Also will note that ULA and Zpacks are made here in the US and carrier a higher price.😊
@axelw273 I love my tent 0 failures. However, the backpack had several over 2197.4 miles
Great info
Glad it was helpful!
Didn’t Hyperlite come out with the unbound 2 in Dyneema?
It's not on their website
I hadn't seen it but it's $699 22 oz or 31.77 per oz
@ I have the Durston Pro 2 v. 1 but the hyperlite seems to be getting some serious love, for being easy to pitch on un-level ground
@canadianbacon2454 nice
Durability?
He’s doing so much boy math on this 😂 love it!
Math is hard
A really important factor in this equation is how much disposable income people have. If you make $60k a year and have a family... you are going to be really hard pressed to buy expensive gear. If you make $80k and have no family... spending $800 on a tent may not seem that bad. Personally, I prefer to take on heavier packs (like Osprey) as maintaining an air gap between my back and the pack is critical in preventing major back moisture from sweat. My winter pack is like 6.5 pounds, it is very heavy but the support is excellent, it is super comfortable and carrying 40lbs or so of gear is much more comfortable with this than a UL pack. So far my lighter 50L pack which I use for rucking is solid and I think very little of just tossing it down. I figure my pack is going to be the item that takes the most punishment and is the absolute largest factor in comfort as I wear it all day
I started with osprey packs with back vents, and the zpacks ultra actually has one as well. None of them prevented back sweat for me. The lighter you get, the more you enjoy the hike. However, you lose joy if you spend a lot of money on gear that doesn't last.
@@ISuckatHiking A lot of packs do have the mesh on the back, I've found Osprey's to be much further from the pack than other brands, but I can absolutely see the benefit of an even lighter pack especially if you have a lot of vertical gain. And of course, spending a lot of money on something to have it fail is very frustrating. I'm also in a slightly different boat as I use backpacking and rucking primarily as exercise so weight isn't actually necessarily a downside for me. You actually hit the nail on the head, the lighter you get the more you enjoy it. Hopefully, in the next year or so I'll have shed nearly as much weight as my pack. Looking to UL myself!
I was expecting a comparison with hyperlite which is the other popular one for thru hiking… 💁🏼♀️
suprisingly I seen very little Hyperlite gear on trail
If you want pack durability and ease of carry even at 40lbs, the 45oz REI Flash 55 for $199 should be considered. It has load lifters, great water bottle pockets, adjustable torso length, and hip belt pockets. Most single hikers do not need a two person tent and I am waiting for the Durston x-dome 1 in 2025 for $369 which weighs 34oz with tent, rain fly and poles. Any pack that has to be replaced twice on a thru hike is worthless to me. IMO, for $569 you cannot beat this combo.
I have a flash 55, but I prefer a single compartment backpack. Just less complicated
Oh man that's ridiculous, tray to do the oz saved cheep vs expensive, the price of oz is effort blisters and time 😂
@@jebleshful a blister scale would be difficult
How much does a Cubic metre of concrete cost per ounce? I am not taking one of those with me backpacking. I am happy to pay for the engineering and development that Z-pack has put in to provide the lightest items in the world. I am buying the lightest item in the world. I pay a premium price. I take extremely good care of these products. Some people buy supercars so that they can have the fastest car in the world. They pay premium prices. They don't treat them badly. They don't compare them to shit cheap cars that come with cup holders. Thank you, Ray.
I take really good care of my items and am willing to pay for a premium. If that high-end car keeps breaking down, is it worth the premium? This is why I proposed the question.
better should include durability. lighter but breaks all the time isn't good at all.
That's what I want people to thank about
Review of the ula coming or did I miss it?
It's coming soon
Is that the blood mountain shelter in the second shot with your dog
I think it was
Great video! I always say - What’s the point of a warranty if the construction quality is lacking. Mid trail with a long way to the nearest town, I don’t want my backpack to malfunction. Zpacks have superb design, but bad construction quality. Durston has superb design and insanely good construction quality. ULA has good construction quality but design is not as good as Durston. So I go for Durston. I ordered a Zpacks Arc Haul costing $700 in total with all the extras. And the pack arrived with a manufacturing defect. I contacted Zpacks and they said no problem, they will participate with $50 for shipping internationally. And then I watched your video showing the fails mid trail, and I was like nope, I’m using the Durston Kakwa instead. Double stitching wonder of a pack. Win! Zpacks can solve their problems by manufacturing with as quality a manufacturer as Durston does, since Zpacks designs are fantastic!
@michelstronguin6974 it's almost like we are paying for the warranty knowing we are going to have to use it. I would be going with a Durston Kakwa if I had to do it over again
I like your videos and I hope you continue putting them out, but I cannot understand the "cost-per-ounce" method of comparing different equipment.
If you had three tents that all weighted exactly the same, then cost per ounce might be a good tool to evaluate price. However, cost-per-ounce does not take in to account durability, or one's ability to carry that extra weight that might bring the cost-per-ounce down. It just seems like a false economy.
I was just using it to help understand value for what we are receiving. Are we paying for materials, warranty, or long-term use? With Zpacks, I think they know they will have to fix, repair, or replace items, and that's why it's priced that way. The ULA pack is made with much higher quality parts, but that comes with weight, but its warranty is for life! I think Durston focus is quality at a reasonable price.
Zpacks Arc Hauls has its uses, but also its limitations. I have a 70l Arc Haul and I love the pack, as it's great for summer hikes with a ventilated back, but as it has only a very UL carbon frame and 100 Ultra fabric its indeed a pack you need to be gentle with, with the hip belt pockets mine weights 697g, my Durston Kakwa 55 is 879g so 26% heavier but lacking the ventilated back. It's a sturdier pack, I like it for the early spring and late fall seasons.
I wouldn't say that Zpack produces low-quality goods, but the brand's focus is extreme UL, where the materials used are already very fragile and the equipment needs to be handled accordingly.
You get it!
Military folks carry 80 lbs and hike all day. Seems like to cut that in half should make it a breeze.
I haven’t done any real hiking, yet.
I served in the Army and rucked some but very few soliders ruck anymore. It's alot harder than you think
Thank you for the interesting video, I feel it is missing a few elements for your consideration. How about the Tarpent Dipole 2 Li or even for price comparing the cheaper Durston X-Mid2? The Tarpent is a Dyneema trek pole tent probably closer to the first two. One aspect you did not mention is construction. If for example, the Durston is better designed, has better material or is better made, maybe you will not have to deal with the hassle of dealing with the failure during your long hike, having to call the company, send it for repair and have nothing while it is being repaired/replaced or the cost of sending the gear to the manufacturer. I don't know if or how you would be able to get stats on failure and/or repair but it would be a good input into this equation where you determine if the gear is worth the money.
Yea, I didn't have a solution. I just wanted to approach the subject for my post thru hike view
Shop around my pack weight in at 27lbs everything food and water included , backpack scream 50, outdoor vital sleeping bag, lanshan treking tent all for 450. Shop around
@garylindenmuth7468 nice I was around 25 with a 4 day food carry most of the time
I use the Lanshan and love it!
Me over here converting all oz to grams
Grams are for Canadians 😆 🤣 😂
@@ISuckatHiking Grams are for literally the entire world except for one country...
(greeting from Poland)
@Obi-Wan_Pierogi well I'm in that country! I can't help how i was raised.
@@ISuckatHiking and just about country other than USA
So a heavier pack gets a better dollars per oz score?...
@ohjolt2 heavier but costs less there is also a huge difference in how they are made. My main point is lighter cost more but may not be made for durability, so is it really better?
To sum things up, Dynema is for suckers. I love my xmid2 solid. I am willing to bet it outlasts any dynema tent.
I'm excited about the poly on the x-dome
ISuckatMath😂 I need a drink.
Math isn't real 😂 🤣 😆
Kakwa is the better backpack when compared to the z-pack
I will find out soon
@ it’s just a lot more durable and priced better. For me personally it fits very well as well. But I know that won’t be the case for everyone.
I definitely plan on getting one
Zpacks uses an American labor force , and Durston uses a Chinese work force .so the labor rates are way different. This is the way I look at the cost of gear .I have a Z-packs arc haul 60 , and a durston xmid pro 2 . The cost of both these items is about as much as a week at an Airbnb . So I feel like I get a good value in my gear versus the cost.
I was just using it to help understand value for what we are receiving. Are we paying for materials, warranty, or long-term use? With Zpacks, I think they know they will have to fix, repair, or replace items, and that's why it's priced that way. The ULA pack is made with much higher quality parts, but that comes with weight, but its warranty is for life! I think Durston focus is quality at a reasonable price.
I’m an ultralight backpacker, I don’t use anything from Z PACKS! Their stuff is way overpriced for no reason! You’re buying the name….. ✌🏻
Probably the warranty since you will use it
❤❤❤❤❤
Thanks
The $/ounce metric is silly…
@@gingrai00 it gave me a measurement standard to justify cost knowing durability
@ 🤓 You are an excellent narrator for your videos. Are you doing the PCT next year?
@gingrai00 thank you, no PCT anytime soon
If you’re only using a “unit price” of $/oz’s your best choice would be a black trash bag! It’s lighter than your selections and is less expensive! You need to include function, performance, durability, etc.
That's an option.
Like others, I have no idea what the point of this video was. I guess I should just have a 60 lb kit that I can get cheap off Amazon.
@glenloewen7507 i didn't compare cheap gear it was comparing gear that is all the same except 1 tent. Knowing what I know now, i would have made different choices. I wanted people to just think about the durability of Ultralight gear with the extreme cost
@ I get that. It’s hard to come up with a good formula to quantify that concept. I am doing the PCT next year and bought a loaded Arc Haul 70L for the trek. I put one season on it this year to get used to it, and I can only hope I get my money’s worth out of that purchase. It’s more comfortable than many, but I’m hoping my result goes better than yours did.
@glenloewen7507 i hope so too
Dyneema and Bushbashing in New Zealand....we will see
@jurgschupbach3059 I hope it works for you
I love me a fupa.
Best name ever
lighter is better
@@jamiern2 if it lasts it is
@@ISuckatHiking lighter gear is more fragile and requires special care. It’s all about what is more important to you. I am willing to take the risk. It just sucks hiking with a heavy pack. Never again. 😝
You suck at this. Your math aint mathing 😅😅
It makes sense to me if you compare only high quality gear. If you add bulky cheap gear it doesn't work.