Is WU Underrated?
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- Опубликовано: 3 окт 2024
- Final kingdom to discuss, this time the kingdom of Wu is front and center, are they the most underrated kingdom? Or is their status deserved? Let me know what you think 😎
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I don't enjoy playing Wu as a kingdom, but their individual storylines are always fun. Gan Ning, Zhou Tai, Ling Tong, the Qiao sisters are all enjoyable characters to play as.
I 100% agree
Wish they would bring back Gan Ning's DW 4 weapon and musou.
Wei: We have ambition
Shu: We have benevolence
*Wu: Ehh...we just have each other*
Wu had fire attacks.
We have family
@@rebirth2526 Sun Vin Diseal is somewhere nodding in fire attack
Ya damn right 😎
@@DanielHernandez-pq5cs the true leader has ambition with benevolence. Cao cao lack of benevolence, and liu bei lack of ambition. Wkwkwkwk
Due to Liu Bei and Cao Cao having a rivalry and personal history with each other and their kingdoms having contrasting philosophies, Wu is kinda unfortunately the third wheel when it comes to the Three Kingdoms.
This is so true. Even in the book, they are very much a side kingdom, a means to an end, more hyena than a true tiger, awaiting the opportunity to strike.
Yah very true
@SuperStarTidus18 they couldn't do even that because of the in fighting and tyranny that was going on after Quan's death which sped up their demise
@@Moonslayer01 yup
You literally took the words out of my mouth,
WU is definitely the 3rd wheel, I always preferred the Shu & Wei rivalry over Wu's rivalry with both factions
Shu is filled with, dare I say, "cringe" characters that constantly spout Justice and Benevolance, Wei has meme characters such as Xu Shu and while Cao Cao is probably the most realized leader out of all them, I can't really take them seriously.
Wu imo has the best representation when it comes to their characters and they just seem like they got their heads together more than the rest, even though Wu as a kingdom kinda falls flat. This is why they will forever be my favorite.
thats awesome!
Reminder that Zhou Yu was the one who historically came up with the different strategies on how to beat Cao Cao on Chi Bi. The author of the novel had a boner for Zhuge Liang and made up that HE was the masterming behind that.
But to be fair, the novel did a good job on showing the hero vs antihero, Liu Bei vs Cao Cao, Wei vs Shu, Wu was also there but they were doing their own thing for the most part of the story and playing as a 3rd party.
yeah exactly
ROTK is basically middle ages propaganda.
People in that era love Shu for some asinine reason.
Wei is the "realistic era breaker" guys.
And then Wu is... just there.
Wu is a big happy family
true, until they're not
No greater proof than there being no Wu storyline in Kessen 2
Is this like THE definitive game or something?
yikes havent played that one but really? wow
@@TheNightowlGaming yeah, they are just padding for the Wei and Shu story, you can’t play as them as a faction
@@tonyt_mp4744 in terms of Kessen? Yes as 1 and 3 are focused on Japan, only Kessen 2 focused on Three Kingdoms and then never had Wu playable in it.
@@TheNightowlGaming when I first played Kessen 2 I was hoping Wu would be a third unlockable story after beaten both Shu and Wei campaigns but no
Wu is very underrated. Shu used to be my kingdom in the old games until I started to realize their "fake" benevolence as games progressed and I never saw myself with Wei so I sticked with Wu from 7 onwards, plus Wu has some of the best officers and girls in the series.
Da Qiao! Xiao Qiao! Sun Shangxiang all the way!!!
@@unibear6372 true they are good. but Xiao qiao nahhhhh. I also think Zhen Ji,Yue Ying and Xing Cai are good too. if they add Zhen ji's true story then she will be super good
For sure, I think if you're aligned with Wu as a fan its kind of like a statement of like you like doing your own thing and what others do dont bother you, i think thats cool
@@TheNightowlGamingI couldn't agree more with this ☺️
Wu = Family Values over everything
for suree
@@TheNightowlGamingFamily is the basic unit of the society.
I feel like newer Wu absolutely is underrated of the 3 kingdoms, but if we go back to Dw3-5, even in Warriors Orochi 1-2? I feel it's the opposite, where I think Shu would've been the underrated focus. I believe it started in DW6 when the main focuses went along with all the screen time being given to Shu and Wei, that caused Wu to "fall off" because with the limited roster and even one of the main people of Wu (Zhou Tai YOU CANT ARGUE HES ONE OF THE BEST) was made a generic and the lack of what feels like soul in the cutscenes in 6, it's like they just made the "supporting actor" role as opposed to spotlight.
EDIT: The last time I got any type of hyped up for Wu, was with Huang Gai and his second Musou attack in 7 the muscle buster and hearing the crowd chant immediately made me remember why I loved Wu so much.
haha for sure, Wus fall off has been rough and i think changing som eof the core characters didnt help either
@@TheNightowlGaming I also think it suffers from an "over inflation" of sorts. Basically you can't give everyone the memorable quotes, or memorable set pieces when there's SOOOOO many other characters. I cannot think of a single real cutscene since DW6 that was "iconic" for Wu, but I sure as hell can name a few for Shu and Wei.
@@IttarraOda for sure i think if they love the game and characters like we do, they could put the passion in for many all the characters unique and developed. if/when im in control of the series thats where i would focus most of my energy along with the story
When I initially started playing I really liked a lot of the characters from Wu. I was actually able to do a project surrounding the history vs the novels in college, and this showed me how much more of a third wheel they are. Still cool though
absolutely still cool
In the games I also noticed that Wu is lacking more generals for their kingdom when comparing to Wei and Shu, Wu in the novel has many generals and advisors that either should’ve been added earlier or never get talked about, their is a lot of untapped potential for new officers in Wu and their kingdom feels really small to me because of that
Late game Wu is BADLY under represented, barely anyone around for the Vs Jin levels. The fact we got the Qiao Sisters over the likes of Zhuge Jin or any number of the late game Wu generals has always bothered me.
@@Janembu I completely agree, the more I thought about it, I know people like the Qiao Sisters but they are the reason why Officers like Han Dang, Cheng Pu, Zhuge Jin, Zhu Ran, Zhu Huan and way more, I like the Da Qiao but if her and her sister didn’t get so much special treatment people would hate them like they hate Guan Suo’s wife because in the novel and games they don’t do ANYTHING that is Canon to either media again I like the Qiao Sisters but this does make Wu look weaker from a military standpoint
If only the Qiao sisters are portrayed better… they’ve always been just some fan service eye candy characters for the eastern audiences who’s more into the Lolita archetype. I do agree more well known Wu officers should be added, but I also think the Qiao sisters’ story potential should be explored more, which would also contribute to Wu appearing stronger
Late Wu needs more characters for sure, even if its hypothetical it would be interesting to see more from them
They needa revamp Ding Feng to be more of a GOAT character
I feel like because of the constant interference of Shu mainly Liu Bei and Zhudge Liang and i guess Guan Yu it really really hindered their progress. Prime example is the stalemate for Jing and the alliance to beat Wei where u could say Shu was only out for itself. And yeah Sun Jian and Sun Ce dying in the beginning is a big blow for sure but Zhou Yu dying was even worse since you could say he was the one designing how Wu would conquer. I feel like had Lu Su and Lu Meng lived longer they would have done way more than Lu Xun. So yeah constant loss of Rulers and Amazing generals will always make you back pedal everytime you make some ground
yeah the unfortunate luck definitely ripped em up
@@Farman_110 Gu Jun and Gu Chen was the demise of Wu
I’ve always felt like Wu was an extension of Shu and Vice versa. They both we’re always at their best when they worked together. Even in the hypothetical scenarios
for sure thats a good point
Its much better in the books. They shoukd have taken some of the cooler moments from the book and put them in this story for Wu. Like showing Huang Gai pretending to defect to Cao Cao in order to trick them was a pivital moment for the Battle of Chibi.
Also there were many interactions and skirmishes between Shu and Wu that dont get any spotlight in the stories as well. Wu is very important and very cool but the problem is they dont highlight more moments from the book.
I do like the very wholesome family dymamic they have in the games though. Wu feels like the underdogs a little bit and that is the best part about them.
i do feel like theres more to explore there wu
wu time finally my favorite kingdom woooo
🎉🎉
For sure, i always liked Shu the most when i was younger. After coming back to the game many years later, Wu is easily my favorite
Nice!
Sun Jian was taken too soon now there were only 2 DILFs fighting during the peak of the Three Kingdoms
lol for sure
If you perchance read the novel or passages of it, you will see that Sun Quan was leaning to the side of the civil officers who were in favor of the vassalization of Wu. It was because Zhuge Liang's taunt to make Sun Quan look like the coward and Liu Bei courageous that helped tipped the balance. In addition, Zhuge Liang might've provoked Zhou Yu, who was the leader of the military officer in favor of war but was neutral himself. Remember that the majority of sentiment was to keep the lands of Jiangdong and not further expansion. They had incredible officers and if Sun Ce was the leader, the other 2 kingdoms would have a hard time. I said Sun Ce because he has this natural charisma that drew talents together. Some of the officers were former bandits. Ce managed to recruit Taishi Ci through duels. You just don't get that often. Quan was just too reluctant and full of self-doubt, not even cautious anymore. Jian was even more reckless than Ce. Ce should lead, Jian should be the vanguard/flying column and Quan should be in charge of domestics along with the 2 Zhangs. In that way, the story of Wu would be more exciting.
that would be sick, I hope one day we get a DW game with all 3 at full strength and have a giant hypothetical about who would actually win!
The Romance of the Two Kingdoms and those other guys
LOL sucks being the other guys
Underrated? Sure I can agree with that.
Sun Jian getting the imperial Seal was totally not a coincidence. Sun Ce pulling off the biggest gamble by trading the seal for troops and conquering the Wu Territories. Thank god Sun Quan had a solid lineup of strategists/admins/generals but Sun Quan wasn’t as aggressive like his father and brother. He broke the family curse of dying early by escaping He Fei and making that crazy bridge jump.
Lol for sure, Liao was coming for them cheeks hah
Yeah had Ce, Jian, and even Yu been around longer I think Wu would've made some more decisive moves to uniting the land. Down the road in a future DW game i would like to see more hypothetical routes especially one where Jian is still alive, convinces Liu Bei and his officers to serve under him, conquer all of Yi Province instead of Bei and it be a Wu vs. Wei route.
that would be an interesting oen!
If jian or ce wouldve lived longer then wu would be more bad ass. However, i just can't get over how shitty quan was compared to lui bei and cao cao. His lack of conviction and inability to show true genuine trust to some of his officers was what made wu weak to me. I love gan ning, lu meng, taichi ci, sun ce, sun jian, and lu xun. They shouldve beaten shu after guan yus death and after yi ling. Then they could've tried challenging wei
Liu Bei is trash.. he’s carried by Guan Yu, Zhuge Liang and Zhao Yun. He is never decisive besides the battle of Yi Ling which he F’s up
i think if they destroyed Shu, Wei wouldve wiped em, they shouldve found ways to maybe bolster Shu while also defending as they seemed to defend pretty well or vice versa Shu shouldve bolstered Wu and then defended the western side if alliance and wei defeat was the utmost important im surprised they didnt do that
@@TheNightowlGaming like they kinda tried that in history but kept breaking the alliance and it screwed them both. I feel wu just needed Jian or ce for a longer time. If ce would've pushed for more of jing instead of turning to wei early to try and unstablize cao cao. Feel wu would've been stronger, yeah lui biao had a good army at this point but not many officers were gonna match the quality ce was bringing to the table really.
@TheNightowlGaming so watched a three kings video on sun ces conquest on the southern era. Fun fact I didn't know was sun ce when he was given an edict from the han government (which was in cao caos control) to help attack yuan shu. He had married sun quan to cao caos niece. With that knowledge I totally feel that if ce wouldn't have been assassinated, then he would've trusted cao cao north and pushed towards jing a lot faster. He wouldn't have had to stop and regain control of his area like quan had to, he would've had wei on his side more in the diplo game and shu wasn't even a thought yet. Wu could've been so much more but just got its feet cut off( jians death) and then it's legs ( sun ce) at the start.
Wu since DW2 has always been my favorite faction. Imo they have the coolest characters and a good family dynamic. They also technically lasted the longest out of the 3 as Wei got overthrown and Shu got over taken by what was mostly Jin at that point.
Also I think another reason why Wu don't have as many exciting moments as Shu and Wei mainly comes down to the ideals of their leaders. Liu Bei and Cao Cao both wanted to conquer and unify China. Wu for the most part just fought to protect what they already had and didn't make as many moves to expand territory.
Truu
To my understanding from just playing the games (I haven’t read the novels or went deeper into the history of it beyond the game’s encyclopedia), Wu’s initial goal was peace for the land in harmony and without conflict. So I think that they really just want to protect and keep what was theirs, and if it was invaded, they’d take it back. I think once they lost their visionary strategists (Zhou Yu, Lu Su, Lu Meng, etc), those that survived were just trying to keep the peace within their own borders and kept to themselves. Which is why after a while they just kind of faded into the main storylines of the game. But beyond Wu’s kingdom work, they had very notable characters
I think the second alliance with Shu and the second „pincer attack was a good move strategically, it‘s just unfortunate that both sides of that pincer attack failed.
Yeah.. Wei smacked em up
The feeling is that Wu would have more presence if Sun Jian or Sun Ce lived a bit longer. Sun Quan has a bit of presence for Wu, but lacks the "imponence" that would swing the attention, like Sun Jian and Sun Ce. Not to mention the other generals or people like Lu Kang and Jiang Qin not being playable, for example
exactly
If Sun Ce lived, it could've been the best.
Sun Quan ruined Wu
Ce at the helm wouldve been really interesting
Say it louder for the people in the back!!!!!
@@TheNightowlGamingBofu let down his guard and that cost his life, wasted potential for the little conqueror.
WU definitley fell from the spotlight once Sun Quan took over. Sun Jian was known and feared by everyone and he was respected by the Han court for his achievements and skills.
Sun Ce was following in Sun Jian's foot steps and making a name for himself even Cao Cao was cautious and feared Sun Ce's strength, it didnt help when Guo Jia confirmed Sun Ce's strength but foresaw his downfall.
Out of all the Wu characters who deserve a hypothetical route Sun Jian and Sun Ce deserve a what if story, if those two were still alive WU would've been a major player and a major threat. We could've saw an alliance between Cao Cao and Liu Bei to oppose Sun Ce or Sun Jian defeating Liu Biao and controling Jing province.
would have been massive if they lived
I always thought is was weird that Lu Meng looks like Shang Tsung from Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance.
oh does he haha
Wu is definitely underutilized in the games. There are a lot of things that went on the games have still never included or that are little known. I ended up written a somewhat long page with some events that went on, so here's a few. 😂
Some are after Chi Bi, Cao Cao had a officer named Xie Qi placed near the border with Sun Quan and led several raids against them. Lü Meng held off the raids for a while then after one plan to ambush Xie Qi failed, he succeeded in fooling Xie Qi to lower his defenses and suddenly attacked him, defeating him. Cao Cao later attacked Ruxu in 213, the first of two attacks he would led on the area, and after a number of difficult battles, forces under Lü Meng held him off. The next year, Lü Meng, Gan Ning and Ling Tong led a attack on the fortress of Huan in Wan county and took it over, capturing the administration, Zhu Guang. Wu held off Cao Cao's 217 attack on Ruxu as well after several difficult battles.
In 223, Cao Pi ordered a large three part attack on Wu, Cao Ren attacked Ruxu again, where Zhu Huan held him off after a defect in one battle and several months of a siege. Cao Xiu, Zhang Liao and the general Zang Ba attacked the fortress of Dongkou, where after several months and a near disaster where a storm caused great damage to their naval forces, the Wu forces under the generals Lü Fan, Xu Sheng and reinforcements led by He Qi held them off. Lastly, Cao Zhen led Xu Huang, Zhang He and Xiahou Sheng to attack Jiangling, where in a incredibly underrated series of battles over several months, Zhu Ran held off several attacks until reinforcements arrived to help force Wei to pull back.
Wu attacked northern Jing in 226 right after Cao Pi's death, but Sima Yi and the general, Wen Ping held them off. Sun Quan also attacked He Fei in 231 and 233 along with the 234 campaign. Man Chong was the main commander who held off each attack. In 242 Zhu Ran attacking Fan but while that at first went well, reinforcements led by Sima Yi forced him to pull back.
There were many more battles over the next 20 years that DW never even mentions. In particular, read about the Jiao campaign in the 260's and 270's and the works of the Wu general, Tuo Huang, possibly one of the most underrated people from Wu.
yeah they need to cover more for sure, and from reading it seems forces were well adept at defense but struggled offensively
@TheNightowlGaming they definitely had a better defensive record against Wei then a offensive one. In line with how you mentioned the early deaths of Sun Jian, Sun Ce and Zhou Yu, I largely attribute this to Cao Cao having such a great number of skilled generals and administrators under him from early on, helping him build a very secure base and a large force. Northern China also had more natural resources then southeast China although it was doing well itself after some reforms by the Sun brothers court, so long campaigns were usually a bit harder for Wu to do then for Wei for these reasons.
Wu is the best kingdom. Personality wise you get to know them more then any other kingdom.
They have the most diverse weapons out of any kingdom.
love thier characters
In the overall impact of the three way battle, Wu definitely had the least impact since Wu is only needed by Zhuge Liang to keep an overall pressure on Wei. Their only biggest offers to history was Chi Bi and Fan Castle. The reason why they did nothing after Fan Castle was because all they wanted was Jing. If Shu actually returned Jing after claiming Han Zhong, the betrayal of Fan Castle wouldn't have happened.
Even after the second battle of Hefei, Wu couldn't do anything due to Sun Quan's death, since after that the Wu kingdom was plagued with Domestic Espionage as Sun Quan's sons and a bunch of Wu's Advisors were causing infighting over the throne of Wu.
But I heavily agree that even despite Wu's lackluster importance to the Three Kingdoms itself, all of their characters are severely interesting and if they didn't lose all of these strong figures, maybe the Hypothetical route from DW8 could've actually happened, or at least, reasonably, Wu probably would've won or at least have defeated Wei.
for sure, if jing was given up i wonder what would have happene d
The worst thing they have going for them is said reality that history is a cruel mistress. Their characters are great and they really shine in hypothetical scenarios and the Orochi series (mainly Orochi 1).
i agree
In regards to why wu didn't do anything in the years between fan castle and yiling. they were technically vassals of wei at the time. thats actually the reason cao pi chose not to capitalize on the battle of yi ling. because he made the mistake to trust that wu would honor their end of the fan castle agreement; wei would leave wu to do as they please in the south as long as they serve under the wei emperor. and wu wanted to wait until shu turned against wei in order to backstab wei but liu bei attacked wu instead.
yeah i forgot they were a vassal for a time, but they couldve expanded west or at least explained it to Shu but after killing someone like Yu the damage is jsut too great
I feel like Wu and Shu would have been permanent allies if Sun Jian and/or Sun Ce were still alive. Liu Bei wished to restore the Han, a goal which Sun Jian shared; coupled with Sun Ce wishing to follow in his father’s footsteps, I think the Shu-Wu alliance would have been stronger and many of the characters who were lost in battle (Guan Yu, Sun Ce in some aspects) or to illness (Zhou Yu, Liu Bei, Lu Meng) would have been able to keep going to secure peace in China.
My opinion, I feel the alliance was the best chance for peace in China; while Cao Cao pushed for peace through might, both Shu and Wu cared about the people; that, in my view, was the perfect catalyst for them to ally and support each other
Not to mention, Wei in part did foster a lot of the tragedies during the Jin dynasty (Cao Cao, the Cao clan, and especially Cao Pi, did set a pretty bad example to follow. Sima Yi and the Sima clan never intended to betray from the beginning, he just learned and so when the opportunity came around, he seized it.) Everyone started to and thought it’s okay to take the empirical throne by force basically, and it was endless infighting all the way till the Tang Dynasty where peace and stability was truly achieved again. There’s a lot of archeological evidences of how the population of Jin dynasty managed to reach the lowest point in the entirety of Chinese history (the numbers are only evidence-based estimates, still, it just goes to show how chaotic, bleak and terrible it was for commoners during that period of time). It’s honestly a shame that a lot of people never look much into the era following the three kingdoms.
if all kingdoms were at full power when the 3 kingdoms raged on it wouldve been quite the show
@@TheNightowlGaming on that we agree! But I do have a question for you: regarding Lu Bu, do you think he would have stayed loyal to Liu Bei if he wasn’t treated poorly by Zhang Fei? If so, what do you think his role would have been? If not, would he have stayed loyal longer at least?
Cannot wait to see the “is Jin underrated?”, getting legit 7%😭
Also, wu was arguably the most balanced kingdom having amazing strategists and warriors, more so than Wei from what I have seen.
Either way I really do enjoy their story, but I feel like at least in dynasty warriors they are underrated because of the fact that Sun Quan was not as good of a leader as his elder brother and father, and that most of the emotionally heavy moments in the story happen in the early parts, unlike Shu who gets it mostly at its climax and Wei where it happens all throughout.
Ah Jin…. I have complicated feelings for Jin. On the one hand, I really love the characters (in DW games at least), on the other hand…. Jin’s considered one of the worst dynasty of China (without much debate even). Some of the reasons as to why Shu and Liu Bei historically till today have always received so much praise in China’s in part due to what happened following the three kingdoms era…THE Jin dynasty. Like, the Sima empirical clan done such a bad job, more and more people began to wish what would have happened had Shu won. Truly one of the few instances in human history (I would argue) where the victors aren’t the ones who dictate how they get remembered. If anything, I think Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel’s a pretty good indication of how history aren’t always written by the victor.
Might have to make it a little different for Jin & yeah I could see that argument for Wu
@@unibear6372 mainly due to sima yan being too tolerant, especially of nobles, and also how they got an Usurper after only a few years, again, due to sima yan’s poor management. Yeah the western Jin dynasty was sucky, and fell due to internal conflict similar to eastern Wu, after the defeated it due to THE SAME REASONS. So no matter how intelligent the Sima clan under Wei was(mainly due to Sima Yi’s loyal and well conducted serving by the Wei emperor to his death), they still were destined to fail due to those who were put in power because of their efforts.
Yeah, the war of the seven princes set off a bunch of cascading events. Though I can’t say that the Cao clan and the Sima clan set up a good example for any political actors later on down the line though, as everybody who remotely held some amount of power, however minor, suddenly thought it legitimate to seize the throne by force. So it’s one on the throne after another constantly cycling which means endless bloodshed and hell on earth for commoners.
In my opinion, it’s always been between Wei & Shu always beefing at It! Meanwhile Wu is more Of a Sit Back chill type of people
And they’re More Naval Experience! Over seas people! Very talented with catching things on fire! That’s Wu For you right their
They will always be the three kingdom Shu,Wei,& Wu
for sure, they're all great love DW
Wu is definitely my favorite kingdom, but I can agree with you. Once Sun Ce and company died there wasn't much happening.
When I was a kid I liked Wu now as an adult my favorite is shu BUT my favorite character overall is Cao Cao
thats awesome!
Wu was one me favorite..in fictional route in dw 8 xtreme legends complete edition they won war and unite china they kiled cao cao only they kept alive others. If you chose save sun jian and sun ce fights will be more easy in this path fiction.
for sure
Definitely my favorite because of the characters like you said
characters are great
The funniest thing about them is how much DW9 shit on them(exposed to them?). Literally somebody dies after every battle after Chi Bi LMAOO
LOL yeee the infectious luck of Wu
I feel like Wu was the snake bitten kingdom. If they hadn't had so many key deaths, I don't think its far fetched to say that they would have been more successful and maybe even win it all. Like imagine if they had Zhou You and Sun Ce in like Yi Ling, or He Fei ya know?
Thatd be sick, if they did a hypothetical with all kingdoms at full strength that would be fun to watch
@TheNightowlGaming 100%. Like a full scale battle between Wu, Shu, and Wei's best officers. Would be dope
Gan Ning feels slept on dude... Love him
well.. in my opinion, while both Liu Bei and Cao Cao both seek the 'Land Unification and restoring order to the Han' in their own way, most of time Wu just think about their own safety and standing, i mean.. they took so much long time to beat Huang Zu only to fail took the land while Cao Cao used those time to casually beat Liu, Yuan and Yuan's Wuhuan ally before aiming the southland, and Zhou Yu split land to two plan is more to 'build kingdom strong enough to resist Cao Cao' instead of 'Defeating Cao Cao and restoring order to the land' which is Liu Bei Goal...
yeah i could see that, but if Sun Ce still wass alive i feel it wouldve been different
History-wise, Wu was always the odd kingdom out since AFAIK they didn't have a claim on the Imperial throne like Liu Bei's blood link or Cao Pi getting the Mandate of Heaven via abdication.
Games-wise, yeah Wu definitely gets underutilized and their characters get lost in the shuffle. Hell, Wu didn't get a "deification" rep for Warriors Orochi 4 SMH
LOL oh yeah no one from Wu got the God p=ower lol
Well, after the Battle of Yiling, Wu defeated Cao PI several times, and the victories of Shiting and Dongxing caused far greater losses to Wei than Zhuge Liang and Jiang Wei of Shu. The threat of Wu to Wei has always been greater than Shu, but the novel lacks the description of the war between Wu and Wei.
Shiting! That was the one I was trying to think of, but yeah they were great on defense, offense as lacking
Wu is my favorite of the 3 kingdoms despite their shortcomings. This is more gameplay wise, their characters are some of the best or have very unique elements to them which I love. Sun Ce has always been my guy (except in dw6 where they made him a background character). Going onto the main story yeah they can’t hold a candle to Wei or Shu. They tried and I agree that they didn’t utilize what they had, as Sun Jian laid the foundation, Sun Ce became unstoppable, especially with Zhou Yu by his side. Beyond that yeah some great moments but none that could rival the chess match between Shu and Wei, and even then, it was really Zhuge Liang vs Sima Yi.
wrap-up yeah right gotta do Jin next
gotta figure out what to do for them!
I don't think Wu had the ambition to conquer the whole country. Most of their battles after Sun Ce's time were defensive. They were more concerned about maintaining their own claim than expanding it.
very true, they were great on defense until they lost all their best people
Wu is my favorit Kingdom, who i choice the most.
Mostly, because they are red.^^
Wu is dopee
heavily underrated!
haha for sure
My first dw was 3 but i didnt know i played dw1😂my fav color is Red n my fav Wu is Zhou Yu bc how sexy he was w a sword then my 2nd char is Lu Xun. I played 7 i didnt know Wu took the easily way in defeating Guan Yu🥴🥴🥴by teaming up w Wei. after that i move to Wei bc Blue is my fav but there leader is evil so i decided to join Shu bc Lui Bei n I have the same ideal by helping the people.
haha thats awesoem
All 3 kingdoms are pretty great in my opinion (I don’t get why people like to praise one just to shit on another… personally) as all 3 of them each have their respective share of vastly different “highlights” (as in, something super great and commendable about them) historically speaking. I do, however, think KT ‘s (not limited to DW games) portrayals of Wu and Shu have always been very flat. Hope the new dynasty origins game would do justice to Shu and Wu. Apparently the story’s supposed to be one of THE selling points this time around. And btw! Are you planning on playing any of the spin-off games of DW? Like Godseekers and Allstars (I think that’s what they’re called) and etc. ?
if I can get my hands on em, ill play em for sure! and i agree with all 3 being great
My opinion before watching the Video; Yes
😁
If I have to describe the reason why they are not utilized more in DW games it is mostly because they are the Neutral Faction of the three. I am a Wu faction person in DW games but I can see why they do not utilize them often in the Main storyline.
Shu is meant to be the Good of Good faction and Wei is the Good but Evil faction when it comes to how they try to make the factions appear like. Wu is the Neutral and most often their What IF endings involve being Neutral where all Factions work together for a better future rather than only one Faction bring a better future.
Still this also why I think they should be utilize more in DW games because as the Neutral Faction of the three Kingdoms, they offer certain views that the whole Goody Good characters of Shu and the Good but Evil characters of Wei do not provide.
very true, definitely more than can do
What I love most about Wu is that from Chi Bi until Guan Yu's death Wu just has a bunch of side quests in between the major story arch of Shu and Wei during that time. It was basically Wu sitting back and enjoying their reign of the Southlands and their only main issue was to try and gain Jing back from Guan Yu who was guarding the province. They were the sideline kingdom and it makes for more unique scenarios and stories that can be explored. They are the most unique of the three kingdoms and yes absolutely they are underrated and have some great battles and story moments to be found along with the plethora of amazing Warriors like Lu Meng, Gan Ning, Ling Tong, Huang Gai, ect. Definitely underated.
But, Wei and Shu do have more significance to the story and I rank them higher for it. I'd say its Wei, Shu, then Wu ranked, but it doesn't mean Wu isn't fun and amazing in it's own right 👍
I 100% agree w you my friend
Wei stood for order, but their leaders had no order to speak of
Shu stood for benevolence, but committed war crimes
And Wu?
Family!
Wei thrived with their resources and ambition, but planted seeds of destruction for hundreds of years to come after the three kingdoms era till Tang Dynasty where true peace and stability’s achieved again
Family and Home I guess, which they held out till their demise
Beign in an alliance with Shu (after Yiling) and becoming vassals of Wei means they can't really make a move against any of them so I think that's why they just sit and wait, so that's why the get more internal problems and court intrigues than actual fighting 😢 they were my favorites because of their characters but their story Is boring
yeah thats unfortunate, I guess they were interested in self preservation more than expansion and thats what ruined e
Sun Jian in official history is a total Chad. He was taken too early and same with Ce.
yup!
Wu, while being very underdeveloped when it comes to direct relevancy in the games, has the most memorable and colorful set of officers to make up for it. They always emphasize the Shu vs. Wei(and later Jin) plot, but most of their officers are lacking in distinct characterization. The fact that Yukimura and Nobunaga from SW has more involvement in the crossovers than Zhao Yun and Cao Cao shows it. (and ironically Ma Chao from Warriors Orochi 3 but he's an exception because he and his brother Ma Dai are meme lords at this point). But Wu's officers are oftenly used and developed individually when it comes to "fictional" and "what-if" materials.
for sure, Wu definitely has a great cast
Wu was greatly underestimated to reinforce the forces of Liu Bei in fiction books. For example, in the early stories, Hwang Geon's wars, Dong Tak Subjugation Wars Son ken's father, played a big role. And there is a record of winning Dong Tak's generals, Hwawoong, and Yeopo. And after Son Gyeon's death, his first son, Son Gaek, was defeated again in the Gangdong area. It is true that he is an attractive force.
For sure, imma be honest I dont recognize these names lol but ill take ur word for em 😁
@@TheNightowlGamingYes, besides this, the actual history record is very different from the novel book. Based on actual history records, they created media such as games, movies, and dramas that we know today.😊
They definitely underared，I mean, WU is the last kingdom defeated in Three Kingdoms
Yes they are
Well, Zhang Wei have been sending lot of northern campaigns with high casualties. So Wei just sick of it and went on attacked Shu while Wu did conquering some stuff but dealing some internal affairs of Sun Quan heirs and Co-regents power
It's their portrayal in the game that's interesting. They join for Yellow Turban and Hu Lao Gate, deal with Liu Biao and Assault on the Wu Territory, join with Shu for Chi Bi and later join Wei at Fan Castle. But there never was a Shu/Wei teamup vs Wu.
In DW3 Musou Mode for rulers, Sun Jian has just over enough for 10 stages while Liu Bei and Cao Cao had a bit more than 10 stages available. All 3 skip Fan Castle despite it being what drew Wu into the battle of Yi Ling. And yet in 3 they had 12 characters while the other 2 had 10.
I feel like they had the coolest characters that were just doing their own thing and reacting to situations rather than actively pursuing conquest. Wei comes off as striking first or offensive while both Shu and Wu come off as reacting and defensive. I still like Wu though, but yeah, I agree, losing 3 great people early on was rough. Would have been interesting to see what Sun Jian or Sun Ce would have done.
would have been interesting indeed
In history they went from a solid army to a competent kingdom, In the Novel more focus is on Wei and Shu but Wu still gets credit for their biggest battles, In the games Wu is all about keeping peace for themselves and co-existing with Wei and Shu which in my opinion is only the first step to Wu’s downfall, At least in Dynasty Warriors Wu does a great cast of characters they just never get to stay around for long in the games or the novel. Wu compared to the others is definitely the weakest but they manage to hold their ground which is still impressive, it is just unfortunate they were too passive to take any more risk for more gains maybe things could have been different
In history they were basically opportunistic rebels not any more legit than the yellow turbans.
@@planescaped Ah I see I must be thinking of something else then
yeah they seemed more interested in self preservation vs expansion
Anyone who says Wu is the worst, but also harp on about Shu being overhated, can be safely ignored.
For sure, i think from an objective standpoint that those 2 points are kinda true
The problem is in the novel they really don't do alot... they spend alot of time in alliances and then chickening out when it comes to the big fights
definitely one way to look at it
Honestly I don't know if I can say wether they are overrated personally I'm very much biased towards the wu forces since they are my favorite side of the war, are they a little to hyped up? Possibly, but that's never really been an issue for me I just love them so much.
haha thats awesome, Wu is great
@@TheNightowlGaming it may be the underdog story that really grips me with them, cus they really do have the pits when it comes to unlucky outcomes for them wether it be by their own hands or some other force.
I just have too many favorites in a certain faction just take a wild Guess
hehe im guessing shu
I always thought Wu was always an unneeded nuisance in the rivalry between Wei and Shu.
a nuisance could be a perspective, but if they were more aggressive perhaps things couldve been different
Wu is without a doubt the third wheel of the three kingdoms period, both historically and in the romance. If anything Dynasty Warriors does a pretty good job of giving Wu more time to shine than they realistically should.
for sure, each kingdom gets their time to shine which i love in the games
Honestly, they are underrated as Jin Dynasty
for sure
Even in history, Wu seemed content just to vibe. They had very talented people but never really had a chance to unite China, being confined to the then backwater Southern provinces, while Shu had a claim to restoring the Han and Wei had overwhelming power and numbers.
Yeah they kinda just chilled until they couldn't anymore
Sun Jian was such a badass. Historically Hu Lao Gate never happen, Dong Zhuo burn Luoyang and escape because of Sun Jian approaching army while the rest of the Coalition did nothing.
I also thought Dynasty Warriors/RotK hated Sun Jian cuz during the other fictional Battle of Si Shui Gate, Sun Jian is always having food/supply shortage and we the player have to save him, making him look incompetent. It's also the only impression most players have of Sun Jian before he dies later in the game story.
Yeah I could see that, i don think I ever saw him painted in a bad light for lack of supply I just figured thats what happened leaving it up to yuan shu, but yeah early deaths hurt them
The Three Kingdoms were all different. Liu Bei/Shu kept losing and being driven away. They eventually stole land from people that were trying to help them and then reached a place in the mountains they could burrow into.
Wu took what they considered theirs. They could never get past the the mountain of Zhang Liao to expand north. They attacked Guan Yu to take Jing, not to wipe out Shu. Maybe they would have become more proactive, had they taken Hefei.
Wei did all of the heavy lifting in uniting China.
For sure, Wu was stuck in their corner and couldn't do much but defend until they couldn't anymore
Storyline-wise, they might seem a little bit boring but that what makes them interesting. It's because they're mainly on the defense, they're so good at it literally almost every defensive stage as wu results in victory, but when they're the ones attacking they suck, always getting trashed lol
lol 100%
Wu has been pushed to the side in order to focus on the Wei v Shu rivalry in the later titles. By the end of the story, they feel like an awkward 3rd wheel. There are a lot of battles between Wu and Wei that did happen in the later history that just never get mentioned cause the focus is on Shu spamming invasions.
For sure, its hard to remember what battles they had later on
Meanwhile in Total War: "Look at me, I'm the protagonist now."
😎
Do Jin next!
Gotta think about what to do for them lol 🤔😁
And it didn't help that their in fighting after Quan's death led to Gu (Sun) Jun and Gu (Sun) Chen tyranny
yeah sfter his death Wu imploded from the inside
@TheNightowlGaming Jin didn't need to do much since Wu was still in the recovery process under Sun Xia because of how much damage Gu Jun and Gu Chen have caused in Wu
“Damnit! If I didn’t get ambushed, I would have made Wu into something more than a girlfriend that Shu Han and Cao Wei can screw around! We could have conquered the land but instead, we ended up being in a rotten three way relationship with Cao Cao and Liu Bei! Get me down there, damnit! I’m gonna be smacking both Cao Cao and Liu Bei in the face!”
-Sun Ce
100% he would be saying that
@@TheNightowlGaming if Sun Ce never got whacked, he, Liu Bei and Cao Cao would end up fighting one another with the three of them getting a sizeable amount of territory.
As for Sun Quan, he’s gonna be handling a desk job while his elder brother’s waging war on behalf of the people of Wu.
Wu is sadly underrated. the being is that Wu doesnt do much after yi ling as said in the video. there is that one battle with sun quan vs cao pi, but it doesnt add much IMO. i mean they dont have much of a rivalry throughout the entire dynasty warriors franchise right up until that battle between them. man history would have been different if sun jian, sun ce, and zhou yu were still alive before and after the formation of the three kingdoms.
would have been crazy
the story is......meh...
but most of the characters from Wu are quite awesome🤔, Zhou Yu, Gan Ning, Ling Tong, Zhou Tai, Ding Feng, Xu Sheng and so on, are all awesome, and OMG Dynasty Warriors Origins Huang Gai is HOT!!!😍
even the Females character are all awesome, Sun Shang Xiang and Lian Shi, Da Qiao and Xiao Qiao, all very fun to play!!!
my all time favorite male characters are: Lu Bu, Ding Feng, Xu Sheng
and my all time favorite Female Characters are: Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, Diao Chan, Lian Shi
most of my favourite comes from Wu so I have a soft spot for Wu😅
same! Wu's got some great characters
Wu dont have clear vision like cao cao. They join liu bei to defeat cao cao at chibi, they join cao cao to defeat guan yu at fan castle. They dont have their own vision.
i agree
@@TheNightowlGaming zhou yu want to divide the land in two, it means they dont want walk in their own path. If they walk in their own path, it is like zhuge liang's plan. Divide the land in three. Each kingdom has own path.
If Zhou Yu still lived, a lot of things would've been altered. Zhou Yu eventually would've had a destined showdown with Zhuge Liang with a large scale battle. He was always slightly paranoid with how smart Zhuge Liang was and one day that cunning could be used against them. Zhou Yu put in all this effort of trying to take Jing from Wei only for Zhuge Liang to just swipe it under the rug from him. That is like the biggest ninja looting in chinese history.
Haha for sure
Wu is not good at offensive because their army is not owned by Sun's clan only， is owned by all the other clans and families.
Sun's Clan is their leader,but not a lord.He can't just control his army very easily like the other kingdom（Not much benefit for the other clan when doing an invasion, they're also have to lost their own amry)
But Wu is very strong at defensive war because now if all the families not working together ，they will lost their homeland and they'll have more motivation for the war.
hmm i think before Wu became Wu they were still unified as a whole especially after Ce's death so Idk if they were unable to move cause of that, if thats the case that makes their whole "family" thing obsolete
Wu may be the Middle Child but before i properly explore the games and the story, i find their characters to be among my Favorite. Especially with the younger half of its cast (Lu Xun, Zhu Ran, Gan Ning, Ling Tong, etc), they did it the best among all the Factions honestly. Wei didn't have much younger characters, Jin's can be all over the place for me, and Shu... Well, you pick Benevolence or Your Parental Worshipping.
I could see that, wish they gave more late Wu peeps
@@TheNightowlGaming oh definitely, and even though i did add quite a few Late Wu characters, i still struggling to put in anybody who's notable enouhh that doesn't die in 249 :/
wu strategy to always wait and see make them so passive.
their defensive traits was unpopular
for sure, but they were good on defense
Unfortunately, I don't enjoy the Wu story as much as the Shu and Wei storyline, their best characters tend to either die early or get sidelined, plus Sun Quan's character is a bit weaker than the other two, Wu will be always the third wheel when it comes to the three kingdom.
for sure
I do not agree that Sun Quan was indecicive or passive. In my opinion he was far more effective than his predecessors and he realised how the three kingdom system worked, and how pointless it would have been to attack Shu, leaving Wei the chance to capitalize on that. Even the fact that he chose to fight in Chi Bi was incredibly bold considering the disagreement of most of his officials.
I still don't like Wu as a kingdom because I always saw them as the tetriary kingdom, also due to Koei giving them so many female characters early on and their insistence on pushing Sun Shang-xiang so much in the story I always felt it as a "feminine" kingdom that has a tragic and interesting story but neither accurate to history, but also in which rather mediocre generals like Ding Feng and Huang Gai must be presented as monsters simply because they lack warriors that can be on par with the top Shu and Wei warriors. Still, the story would have been nothing without Wu, and in my opinion it's part of the reason why the time period is more amazing than any fictional novel.
absolutely beautiful points, I think Quan could be looked at either way, decisive in staying home but also indecisive in seeming to not have a larger vision for the land
1.Zhou Tai
2. SSX
3. Gan Ning
4. Sun Ce
5. Sun Jian
6. Zhou Yu
Wu has cool characters I agree
😎
Plus the qiao sisters hehe
Wu feels like a filler kingdom to Wei and Shu's conflict.
yeah that makes sense lol
Wu in my honest opinion is the best and most annoying to fighting against bc of one thing ..... Their Crossbows and archers
oh yeahh theres so many of them lol
I love sun quan
thats awesome!
@@TheNightowlGaming part of it because it was my parents are from Guangdong which was ruled by Wu state during the 3 kingdom era as Guang Province so Im kinda biased. Also the flame blade is pretty cool
@@희연-g9u haha thats amazing! and yeah flame blade is dope, i use it for my OC in DW8E
No because Zhou Tai appeared to carry Wu on his back xD
He could only carry him so far 🥲
@@TheNightowlGaming Aye. As far as the games go I think he is a strong carry for Wu, but historically, as much as I liked Wu's seemingly humble family vibes, I don't think their ambition quite matches Wei or Shu, they definitely have a fiery determination though.
Wu? You mean ZHOU TAI?
the man!
@@TheNightowlGaming Origins better have his sword dash trick back, who needs a damn horse?
Wu slander is always obligated
this guy 😎
So wu is firmly number 2 in my ranking of the 3 and sun Jian is easily my favorite of the leaders to actually play as. They have a good roster too.
What I think the issue with Wu is 2 things at least from my point of view is that:
1. Sun Quan just kind of sucks especially compared to his dad and older brother. It feels like such a downgrade going from my favorite 3 kingdoms leader to one of the worst (liu shan unbeatable for worst)
2. Wu is just kind of there in the story. Wei and Shu both have such clear driving motivations. Cao Cao is the hero of chaos that will bring order to China and Wei is the hardcore ends justify the means faction while liu bei and shu are the bleeding heart heroic benevolence faction wanting to save as many as possible opposite of them. Then there’s wu who fights because… uh glory to the sun family or something?
I’m generalizing here but wu really lacks that simple this is what this faction is about statement that gives Wei and shu defined and compelling identities.
very good points, i do feel a little bad for Quan as he had to live up to 2 legends but yeah they didnt do much
@@TheNightowlGaming it’s a similar issue to liu shan where it’s completely understandable how he struggled to live up to expectations and deal with the monumental stress of leading a kingdom in a time of war but in a game about badass legendary heroes that just falls incredibly flat. It’d be better if this was some kind of slow burn political drama but it’s an over the top action game so he just looks weak.
People don't like Wu?... I mean, Sun Quan era Wu is kinda awful, but the characters seem like some of the best to me.
To me Shu is the worst
just underrated