Picked one up in Switzerland on holiday. Black dial. Love everything about it! It’s handsome, comfortable, reliable and 120 hrs power reserve! The Genta redesign is what makes this extra special. Wait a year and buy it used. I’ll take the hit. But this is a personal investment and a memoir of my first trip to Switzerland.
True collecting is acquiring watches that speak to you and you only. It’s not just about the collectible and hyped watches. If you can spend crazy money on a watch that nobody cares about, that’s when you know it’s serious! Stay Blessed! 🤜🏼🤛🏼
Congrats, enjoy your purchase. It's a great looking watch and for all the reasons you state, I could see spending the extra dough to buy not only the watch, but the experience that came with it. If you were just buying it locally or online, well then that's a different story.
@@FreerYourMind27 About 11K CHF from Bucherer St Moritz. Yes I was able to get a get a tax refund. I paid more in USD but I was one of the first to have where I’m from. I was just in Paris and they have it at the IWC shop at Rue de Sèvres. You can save 12% for luxury goods. Haven’t seen in the US yet.
I looked at the black one at my AD this week and put it on my wrist. Stainless steel like the mark xx pilot. Same size as the mark xx. Same movement as the mark xx. Yet 80% more expensive. I couldn’t see the value Oh I nearly forgot to mention, you just can’t buy it, you need to put your name on the expression of interest list. (I thought I was at the Rolex AD)
I think it's impossible to get over the price issue with this release, no matter how well the case and bracelet are executed. The biggest challenge is trying to ignore the fact that the same caliber movement is used in multiple other IWC models, including the new Mark XX which more than 50% less expensive at MSRP. The new Ingenieur doesn't even show the movement off as the caseback is closed. So ultimately, you are paying nearly $6000 extra dollars for a slightly more complexed dial and an integrated bracelet. The Mark XX is a great watch already and if you buy it on a bracelet, you could say you have a cut-price Ingenieur. This is definitely a cash grab, fueled by the never ending integrated sports watch hype and new customers splurging in the hope that their new IWC will be the next Nautilus or Royal Oak retirement investment
I was ready to type exactly what you did, so I didn't. I will say you can buy two IWC XX's, one with bracelet and the other with leather, for the same money as one Ingenieur.
Funny thing is last time I asked this question to IWC boutique SA, they mentioned that mark XX is getting their 120 hour movement reduced to make the ingenieur more attractive
@@Bennie_Bee6 Yes, that's me. Your comparison to the Mark XX is spot on. I would be willing to pay a premium of 20% vs. a Mark XX for this Ingenieur on accounts of a slightly superior level of external finishing (dial, etc.), but almost double the price is completely unjustified.
Just got on the list for the aqua! This is going to be collectors piece absolutely beautiful in every respect! A bargain in my opinion when you consider the current market, IWC deserves much more respect in the industry! Stunning!!!!!
I love the Aqua; but I like the full brushed bracelet of the other other dial colours more. The Aqua bracelet has polished pieces, without these polished pieces on the bracelet the Aqua would be perfect for me. I also think this Ingenieur Aqua will one day be a collector....but that will be in 10 years.
Hi, just wanted to share my friend’s interesting thoughts which I too mostly agree with that try to incapsulate the hoopla surrounding this new Ingeniuer (paraphrasing a little): I'm predisposed to like the watch (being an physicist who’s work had to do with high magnetic fields). This new model is well-designed (Genta and all), quite a "slim" feeling overall profile, a comfortable bracelet, good technical specs (albeit not as ground breaking magnetic resistance a la Master Chronometer). However, upon hands-on with it, when you put it on and look at the watch in the mirror, there's no je ne sai quoi. The emotive connection that underpins your impulse to get the watch. It's not that it’s boring - it has the right level of details but it doesn't pop, like an Rolex bracelet or a GS textured dial. I’ll admit that the light play of the checkered-like dial is unique as it looks interestingly different from different angles of light. The round porthole design is, well, a round porthole design. A ceramic bezel, or heck a ceratanium version of the watch, with Richemont's silicon bits now that various patents on Si are expiring, would be magical. I am glad I am not alone with this view. I don't feel anything for this model despite the hype and I was wondering why. It's like someone with all the nice features but when put together, it just doesn't pop for me? It could be that the overall look of it; looks very standard and typical of an Ingenieur. It’s nothing jaw droppingly special that would blow your mind. It may just be me, but I think I like my watches to be able to answer "what's special with this watch that you decide to part $$$ for it?" It's relatively easy to answer other models such as the Santos Dumont, several Rolexes, SpeedMasters and so on. But this Ingenieur - it's special because it has exceptionally high magnetic resistance as it is designed for engineers, it has a 5-days PR, it wears well, and it's the third integrated bracelet design by Genta, just don't really cut it. Which will lead to question such as, “Around the same price range, what else can I get which could be better than this or can connect better with me?”. The Ingenieur, just needs to stand out more for other good reasons. I like it but the story behind it, might be just on “par”. I’ll just be blunt and say that if it was price much lower, at say USD$7.5-10k range, it would have been more acceptable at status Quo. I'm philosophically objecting to an "engineer's watch" without class-leading anti-magnetism, above all the other reasons, especially when Tudor and Omega have "standard" watches at 15,000 gauss resistance. (I realise this is a pedantic argument, academic even, but if we're not arguing about specs like dive limits and water resistance, where is the fun?)
Got the call for my aqua dial! 🎉 It is stunning! Love the design language and brushed and polished light play... it fits sleek like a Daytona and is even slimmer. Taking it out of the box was nothing like the videos. Has to be held to be fully appreciated so if you like it in the videos, you're going to be blown away in person.
Collecting my Aqua Dial next week - just got the Call! Cannot wait to have it on my wrist. Respect all arguements / opinions For & Against..... I love the look of the watch and the only person I need to convince is Myself = Job Done!
Since I’m in the queue, this only heightens my enthusiasm. Also, I don’t mind the wait because I bought a Mark XV 18 years ago and have a great experience with their customer service department and now their Boutique.
I’m amused reading all the usual complaints that the watch is overpriced largely based on the movement being used. I own the Aqua Ingenieur and the one thing it’s doing that really bothers me most is it’s had the effect of “downgrading” my Czapek Antartctique, which is double the price of the IWC because it has a “better” movement and is from an indie house, however the IWC is considerably better finished and arguably better looking too.
I’m really struggling to see why a portugieser yacht club with steel bracelet isn’t better value at the price tbh. I do like this but comparing the two at the respective prices it’s really hard to see where the money has gone. Both will have the same levels of finishing and one is way more complex movement wise. It’s a lot for an integrated bracelet imo.
I've waited years for a modern version of the 76 original Ingenieur. Having handled one in person, this is the one watch released in 2023 I'll buy which I can actually get.
IWC missed a great opportunity to revive the Ingenieur in a proper way! They should have put in an in-house movement, finished it well and exhibited through an open case back. They did none of that and to make matters worse, they then slapped a $12K price tag… what a joke!
No they can't have an open display with the soft iron cage for magnetic protection. And that's a component you can't take out for a proper pilot or "Ingenieur" .
Firstly, awesome video and channel, subscribing now! I recently bought an IWC Big Pilot 43 and was close to getting this one instead, I think it’s worth the £10k, tried in on at IWC and it’s beautiful, I understand the criticism but I have a feeling this will be the best selling watch of the year. A lot of celebs have bought it. *Hot Take* I’d love to see IWC bridge the gap into luxury and make this in Rose Gold or full Yellow Gold one day with a champagne or off white dial 👌🏾
I’ve agreed with many of your videos Max, but not this time I’m afraid. I have a GO seventies panorama date which is also an integrated steel sports watch with an incredible design, superb finishing, amazing movement and a class leading micro adjustable bracelet. For half the price. And it’s twice the watch. Zenith’s defy is a similar watch to this and about a third of the price of the titanium version. From an excellent brand with great heritage. Christopher Ward’s 12 is literally ten times cheaper and I suspect it is not ten times worse. Quite possibly not too far behind. Forget the genta thing. Take that away for a second. Imagine this is a microbrand watch. 14k? Really?! Personally I don’t think heritage is an acceptable reason to grossly inflate the price of a watch by such an extreme amount. Apologies for any grievances caused. Not personal, just a humble opinion
Look, it’s a nice-looking watch. I’m sure it’s well made (although I still think it’s too large;38.5mm would have been perfect). However (here it comes), the movement is the same Baumatic 5-day movement you can get in a B&M for a quarter of the price (never mind its origins). And I’m sorry but the initials IWC meant something very rude in my school playground many years ago long before I’d heard if the brand. I simply can’t think past that 😂.
I think it’s good, but the price will probably keep a lot of people away from it. $12k is still a lot of money. You could fly to Europe and visit IWC’s factory for a week for that kind of money. You could maybe even buy their 36mm pilot watch as well and still have money leftover!
You could fly to IWC’s factory for a week, but you’d be bored after your 3rd coffee after about 2 hours. Plus you’d come home and have nothing to show for it 😂 One thing the “Naysayers” are not considering is if this watch goes up in value? It could be more like $16k-$18k in the next 5 years (current inflation rates) which would make the current cost a bargain… wouldn’t it?
@@benedekgabor. I’m not in it at all, I don’t have this watch, just the Big Pilot. If you are buying without some speculation on future value then you are missing the point. It’s a luxury watch and most hold value, so of course you would think about potential future value. You shouldn’t buy on a guess, but surely you buy the watch with optimism over potential ROI… if it drops in value no drama, but you can’t tell me never to think of it
@@Lintybaybay This is what is wrong with watches, and for that matter with guitars, cars, and any other hobby. It’s all about money. You should buy these things to wear it, and not to hope that it becomes your retirement investment. lmao
This is my humble take on the situation. So pls take it for what it’s worth. The ingenieur is gorgeous. And the comparison with the cars that have no bad angles is spot on! It’s a gorgeous watch in every way that a watch can be considered gorgeous. However, I don’t agree that it’s $12k gorgeous.
I would get the Zenith Defy, it has better and more interesting movement. It's also cheaper as well. Otherwise, I'd go for a grey market GP Laureato in this price range.
I did not know the Ingenieur had a 120 hr power reserve. That is incredible and IWC is not doing a good job advertising this fact. For some, that power reserve is a game changer.
I agree that this watch is well-executed in every aspect: design, ergonomics, movement specs. I’ll even go so far as to say it’s my favorite Genta-inspired modern IB watch. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a huge premium to pay for a bracelet that attaches to the case differently than IWC’s other models. A bracelet is not a horological feature, it’s a thing that secures a watch to your wrist. For this money, you could get complications, stunning movement decoration, or in some cases, a customized piece from an independent brand.
The problem isn't that the movement is off-the-shelf, it's that it's a crap movement. I had a Mark XX with that same movement that had to be serviced twice in its first 6 months. Forget COSC, IWC won't even publicly state an accuracy range for it at all. IWC took mine in under warranty when it was running more than 20 seconds off, but it still only managed 7 seconds a day after the full tear-down service. The movement also has also has a glitch where the minute-hand jumps when you pull out or push in the crown during setting, something IWC said was normal and wouldn't repair. I think it's totally legitimate to criticize dumping this movement--as you say, one available in $1k Baume & Mercier models-into a 5-figure IWC. It would be a legitimate criticism if a movement this unreliable and glitchy were in a Seiko 5.
Full disclosure. I’m a huge IWC fan. Own, or have owned, multiple Pilot, Portofino and Portugieser watches. The Ingenieur has yet to find a place in my collection. Is that about to change? The jury is still out. I’m waiting for it to be released to the boutiques before I decide. But my prejudice is that it’s overpriced by $2-2500. But then again, I paid 10 grand for a 43mm Big Pilot. So maybe it’s not. Stay tuned.
Let us not talk about prices. Given this is not going to be your only watch, convince me the IWC Ingénieur will make you happier than rocking a Ch Ward Twelve.
I am not sure G Genta, as a creative designer, would think being stuck in the 1970’s fifty years later is such a great idea. Can’t we really do better that this ?
Its trading a little over MSRP on chrono24, by only 5-15%. I have mine on order. Still another 2-3 months out. This will be a keeper irrespective of future valuation. Classic design, good size for my wrist, and I generally enjoy the fit and feel of the IWC watch. JLC and other swiss notable brands have increased MSRP hugely recently. Its happening irrespective of what we think the watch(s) are worth.
Hade a few Rolex on my wrist for some twenty year’s ended up with the yacht-master which I am happy with my one understated. But the brand is everywhere advertising on F1 or Wimbledon and to me not so special any more and to be honest they aren’t very customer friendly attitude. I am sick of so many bloggers ( not this channel) with so called experts who know nothing and I am looking for a different watch. I don’t collect watches I have my one on my wrist but high end been looking and to be honest only a few I would purchase this IWC ingenieur is they only one. Understated but if you know about watches you know as for price if I trade my Rolex in it’s not that expensive and taking that it probably need a service even better. But this IWC is in a class of it’s own …..And makes me happy after all we don’t own the watch we are just custodians of it.
Great vid! Can you do a comparison vs the baumatic riviera (translucent saphire dials, not the one you pictured)? Likely the same 4K 120hr movement, +/- .5 seconds per day or less - better than my Omega Diver 300. I have the 42mm black dial and LOVE it on my 7.5" wrist.
Sorry, the price is a joke, and this video only further adds credibility to industry brands that are becoming infatuated with upscaling their offering prices without improving the product in kind.
I have to reluctantly agree with you. When things are ‘hot’ they are taken advantage of and a premium is charged. This whole genta thing is frankly tiresome.
I tried on this watch at the boutique and it’s an amawesome creation. I really don’t care for integrated bracelet watches but this one fits like a glove. However the movement in this watch can be found in the IWC mark 20 and other watches at a much cheaper price. Great watch but the price cannot be justified
Really nice watch, if i had the money i would buy it. Iwc is a special brand, you will only understand when youve owned an iwc. Half the people on a budget flight wear Rolex nowadays, there is no exclusivity with Rolex anymore, they are everywhere and most are fake.
It's a great looking watch! Hopefully I'll get a chance to try one on, but that price point and non macro-adjustable clasp (so far) makes it doubtful I'll ever own one. Thanks for the review.
Question is why IWC didn't just cram in the 82000 series movements. It's fully inhouse AFAIK and would probably be a good place to start using them outside of their BP43's
This is a very beautiful watch. At the price it is if I could afford this watch I would be tempted to put my other watches away and wear just this watch.
I was thinking the same thing. "The bracelet is subtle and comfortable" -> meanwhile there's a massive imprint on the wrist. It sure as hell doesn't look comfortable.
I tried on the Aqua model today as I went in to buy a Desert Mojave 41, now I’m torn! lol I do think it’s on the pricey side for what it is to be frank. Even my AD agrees they are priced to high and pressed IWC for justification on the price. They had no answer other than “it is what is it” essentially. Thankfully I still get generous discounts! It’s super handsome though and the dial really pops. They really nailed the execution.
I’m picking up the white one in a couple days I already put 30% deposit on it. Is it overpriced? Yes. Is it a nice watch? Yea it’s really nice and fits great on the wrist 😊
I do like the watch, however its way too expensive for what it is. With only a three hander and date complication, this, in my opinion, should be max $7K. Definitely a pre-owned buy in the future, and let someone else take the initial hit.
Good stuff max. Sweet shots too. I wasn’t blown away by it when handling it quickly. But I’m happy to be wrong if I could spend some Time with it. I don’t think it’s overly expensive but I feel they could have made it Under 10k and we would have seen a mega hit getting more new iwc clients
Hoping they start shipping soon. I paid for Aqua on Mar 27 to get one of first 10 at my boutique. All watches are overpriced so that's not really a thing for me. Thanks for the macro video, it's been impossible to see this level of detail until now.
I know people gravitate toward novelties, but an extra $1,800 and you could buy an IWC Portugieser Yacht Club Chronograph on a bracelet. If required, I would just eat beans for awhile and get the Yacht Club.
My big giant Tudor GMT Chunkmaster Flex with 15mm slab sided thickness and only 70 hour Power Reserve will eat this Gentrafied homage for breakfast. All joking aside this is a nice watch with the dial, movement and 120 hour power reserve. Not sure why everyone is griping about the price , it seems to offer excellent value. The whole waitlist thing at dealers may make it seem more exclusive and it very well may increase in value. If Casio made a Nautilus this would be it.
Oh my God, I made my comments before I’d watched all of this video and when I’d watched all of it I felt totally justified. This is a 6K Steel sports watch.
I’m sorry this video just tries to validate the recent practices of the watch industry in general. There has been a collective initiative by all the manufacturers to justify price increases and MSRP’s that are not in line with inflation or with what the previous generation of collectors is used to seeing in mid to high end watch releases. JLC is doing the same with their high price increases on their base Reverso small seconds which is now over $10k. That’s like a $3k -$4k increase in over as many years. And there is no way anyone should be paying more for this IWC than a Reverso. Don’t let them fool or gaslight you into thinking these watch price hikes are justified or worth it.
I don't have the chance to spend one week with it but only 15-20 minutes in the boutique. Honestly it doesn't excite me especially with the whopping price tag and possibly "waiting list" game.
Deciding between this new version and the 3239. Of course new one looks better but seems still 3239 is a better buy? What do you guys think? Getting either one next week 😂
Hard to justify the purchase of this watch if one can get an unworn Sub Date in the grey market at the same price level which beats this watch on every level
It doesn’t have silicon hairspring. Richemont was chastised before once already by swatch-rolex-patek consortium when they used silicon hairspring in 5 days baumatic. But they are allowed to use silicon pallet fork and escape wheel which is what is inside 32111.
Great overall design very similar to an AP. But the finishing on the case and pusher feels cheap. They should have refined it a bit more. Its still a great choice for integrated bracelet and a true genta design. Probably should be worth around 8,000
I’d love to know what somebody like Rodger Smith thinks about this. this is the whole issue with watch movements and discussions about movement manufacture. The truth of the matter is when you get to about 4000 English pounds you have reached a certain point where beyond that there is an awful lot of overpriced watches, JLC and grand Seiko might be different, but when it comes to a steel sports watch it’s ridiculous. It’s a fantastic watch with beautiful finishing, but it is a mass produced steel sports watch and that means it’s worth £6000.
Perfect and lovely, but expensive I think, as well as the others. Bb54 for me by now. To your question: Could be overhyped becarse it is wanted to be appreciated? 3500€ could be overhyped..
The Cal. 32111 is also in my Mark XX - and even there, it doesn't stand up against what Omega and Rolex has to offer at this pricepoint. No COSC or Metas-Certification, no see-thru boittom due to the outdated technology of a soft iron cage...
if you are merely likely the bluish tint dial and not so bothered by the integrated bracelet ,just get a Seiko Ginza LE alpinist (also mentioned previously in this channel by Max) .... maybe can get it around 2k dollars or even under. (despite the original retail at around or under 1K USD). no matter how good this watch mentioned here is , it ain't work 12K dollars period!
Great video. I would love to see one in person and try one on. That always seems like the largest obstacle to anything I see online and have an interest in.
True it doesn’t have a gold rotor because you’re not paying Patek money, but then again you’re not paying Baumé et Mercier money either so the movement shouldn’t be “off the shelf”, top or not! $12K+ should give you something that separates it from others in its collection or group.
I would get the IWC Mark XX on a bracelet instead. The Ingenieur is a nice watch, no question about it but not that much nicer in order to cost twice as much.
Nice presentation as always but for me IWC never interested me, I feel in general that IWC is way over priced for what you get. I stick with SINN for now. 😊
This is a market case, I dont deny it looks great but inside their own brand, there is a previous ingenieur the IW 323906, with genta DNA, good specs. Take a look and price aside it makes us think......
In this weird hobby, and in the luxury market in general, there's no real sense of what overpriced might be. However, this watch comes as close to objectively overpriced as I can imagine.
Integrated bracelet design doesn't give you the ticket to demand any price you think you can charge , they got it all wrong, even the proportions are not right let alone thickness , even the lugs design is frankly out of place here . I think IWC missed a great opportunity .
An OK looking watch for mine. That it sits aesthetically between PO and Nautilus is a meh for me as I'm not a fan of either. Compared rationally to the Mark XX it is clearly over-priced, and loving your videos as I always do, you haven't swayed me on this one, Max. I take your point on actually getting one in hand, but I'm not going to.
No, its still incredibly overpriced. Stainless steel watches exceeding $3k is just ridiculous IMHO. And the fact that its an off the shelf movement, regardless of how high that shelf is, makes it even worse. So what exactly justifies the price tag?
So tired of the integrated bracelet trend. I understand that IWC has crafted and great watch. Tired of the aesthetic. It feels played out, not unlike Tag Heuer in the 80s/ 90s… Just because a watch is exclusive due to it’s price doesn’t mean that the aesthetic is suitable. Not a fan of the PRX. I love Direnzo, but not a fan of their integrated offering…
Continue the chat on WatchCrunch: www.watchcrunch.com/Max/posts/the-most-hyped-watch-of-2023-45965
Picked one up in Switzerland on holiday. Black dial. Love everything about it! It’s handsome, comfortable, reliable and 120 hrs power reserve! The Genta redesign is what makes this extra special. Wait a year and buy it used. I’ll take the hit. But this is a personal investment and a memoir of my first trip to Switzerland.
Wow, not a single like for your comment. The hate is real. I too am starting to prefer the black dial over the aqua green.
True collecting is acquiring watches that speak to you and you only. It’s not just about the collectible and hyped watches. If you can spend crazy money on a watch that nobody cares about, that’s when you know it’s serious! Stay Blessed! 🤜🏼🤛🏼
Congrats, enjoy your purchase. It's a great looking watch and for all the reasons you state, I could see spending the extra dough to buy not only the watch, but the experience that came with it. If you were just buying it locally or online, well then that's a different story.
Congrats on your purchase! May I ask how much it was in Switzerland and were you able to get a tax refund for it? I’m from US. Thanks
@@FreerYourMind27 About 11K CHF from Bucherer St Moritz. Yes I was able to get a get a tax refund. I paid more in USD but I was one of the first to have where I’m from. I was just in Paris and they have it at the IWC shop at Rue de Sèvres. You can save 12% for luxury goods. Haven’t seen in the US yet.
I looked at the black one at my AD this week and put it on my wrist.
Stainless steel like the mark xx pilot. Same size as the mark xx. Same movement as the mark xx. Yet 80% more expensive.
I couldn’t see the value
Oh I nearly forgot to mention, you just can’t buy it, you need to put your name on the expression of interest list. (I thought I was at the Rolex AD)
I think it's impossible to get over the price issue with this release, no matter how well the case and bracelet are executed. The biggest challenge is trying to ignore the fact that the same caliber movement is used in multiple other IWC models, including the new Mark XX which more than 50% less expensive at MSRP. The new Ingenieur doesn't even show the movement off as the caseback is closed. So ultimately, you are paying nearly $6000 extra dollars for a slightly more complexed dial and an integrated bracelet. The Mark XX is a great watch already and if you buy it on a bracelet, you could say you have a cut-price Ingenieur. This is definitely a cash grab, fueled by the never ending integrated sports watch hype and new customers splurging in the hope that their new IWC will be the next Nautilus or Royal Oak retirement
investment
I was ready to type exactly what you did, so I didn't. I will say you can buy two IWC XX's, one with bracelet and the other with leather, for the same money as one Ingenieur.
Funny thing is last time I asked this question to IWC boutique SA, they mentioned that mark XX is getting their 120 hour movement reduced to make the ingenieur more attractive
My thoughts exactly.
@johnnyguitar6697 thanks for confirming my opinion. If you're the same Johnny Guitar that appears on Uptick then it means a lot !!
@@Bennie_Bee6 Yes, that's me. Your comparison to the Mark XX is spot on. I would be willing to pay a premium of 20% vs. a Mark XX for this Ingenieur on accounts of a slightly superior level of external finishing (dial, etc.), but almost double the price is completely unjustified.
Just got on the list for the aqua! This is going to be collectors piece absolutely beautiful in every respect! A bargain in my opinion when you consider the current market, IWC deserves much more respect in the industry! Stunning!!!!!
I love the Aqua; but I like the full brushed bracelet of the other other dial colours more. The Aqua bracelet has polished pieces, without these polished pieces on the bracelet the Aqua would be perfect for me. I also think this Ingenieur Aqua will one day be a collector....but that will be in 10 years.
Hi, just wanted to share my friend’s interesting thoughts which I too mostly agree with that try to incapsulate the hoopla surrounding this new Ingeniuer (paraphrasing a little):
I'm predisposed to like the watch (being an physicist who’s work had to do with high magnetic fields).
This new model is well-designed (Genta and all), quite a "slim" feeling overall profile, a comfortable bracelet, good technical specs (albeit not as ground breaking magnetic resistance a la Master Chronometer).
However, upon hands-on with it, when you put it on and look at the watch in the mirror, there's no je ne sai quoi. The emotive connection that underpins your impulse to get the watch.
It's not that it’s boring - it has the right level of details but it doesn't pop, like an Rolex bracelet or a GS textured dial. I’ll admit that the light play of the checkered-like dial is unique as it looks interestingly different from different angles of light. The round porthole design is, well, a round porthole design. A ceramic bezel, or heck a ceratanium version of the watch, with Richemont's silicon bits now that various patents on Si are expiring, would be magical.
I am glad I am not alone with this view. I don't feel anything for this model despite the hype and I was wondering why. It's like someone with all the nice features but when put together, it just doesn't pop for me? It could be that the overall look of it; looks very standard and typical of an Ingenieur. It’s nothing jaw droppingly special that would blow your mind.
It may just be me, but I think I like my watches to be able to answer "what's special with this watch that you decide to part $$$ for it?" It's relatively easy to answer other models such as the Santos Dumont, several Rolexes, SpeedMasters and so on. But this Ingenieur - it's special because it has exceptionally high magnetic resistance as it is designed for engineers, it has a 5-days PR, it wears well, and it's the third integrated bracelet design by Genta, just don't really cut it.
Which will lead to question such as, “Around the same price range, what else can I get which could be better than this or can connect better with me?”.
The Ingenieur, just needs to stand out more for other good reasons. I like it but the story behind it, might be just on “par”.
I’ll just be blunt and say that if it was price much lower, at say USD$7.5-10k range, it would have been more acceptable at status Quo.
I'm philosophically objecting to an "engineer's watch" without class-leading anti-magnetism, above all the other reasons, especially when Tudor and Omega have "standard" watches at 15,000 gauss resistance. (I realise this is a pedantic argument, academic even, but if we're not arguing about specs like dive limits and water resistance, where is the fun?)
Got the call for my aqua dial! 🎉
It is stunning! Love the design language and brushed and polished light play... it fits sleek like a Daytona and is even slimmer. Taking it out of the box was nothing like the videos. Has to be held to be fully appreciated so if you like it in the videos, you're going to be blown away in person.
Collecting my Aqua Dial next week - just got the Call! Cannot wait to have it on my wrist. Respect all arguements / opinions For & Against..... I love the look of the watch and the only person I need to convince is Myself = Job Done!
Since I’m in the queue, this only heightens my enthusiasm. Also, I don’t mind the wait because I bought a Mark XV 18 years ago and have a great experience with their customer service department and now their Boutique.
Hope you get the call soon!
I’m amused reading all the usual complaints that the watch is overpriced largely based on the movement being used. I own the Aqua Ingenieur and the one thing it’s doing that really bothers me most is it’s had the effect of “downgrading” my Czapek Antartctique, which is double the price of the IWC because it has a “better” movement and is from an indie house, however the IWC is considerably better finished and arguably better looking too.
Beautiful watch. Unfortunately, to expensive and there are better options at that price point.
I’m really struggling to see why a portugieser yacht club with steel bracelet isn’t better value at the price tbh.
I do like this but comparing the two at the respective prices it’s really hard to see where the money has gone. Both will have the same levels of finishing and one is way more complex movement wise.
It’s a lot for an integrated bracelet imo.
Just tried this on at an AD today; honestly, once you have it on wrist you’ll realize why IWC is asking $12k - also, it now has a waitlist.
Waitlist 😂 i think its hyped because of the name genta.
I've waited years for a modern version of the 76 original Ingenieur. Having handled one in person, this is the one watch released in 2023 I'll buy which I can actually get.
They nailed the design 👌
IWC missed a great opportunity to revive the Ingenieur in a proper way! They should have put in an in-house movement, finished it well and exhibited through an open case back. They did none of that and to make matters worse, they then slapped a $12K price tag… what a joke!
yeah, if they did that then the price would be justified. this one deserves to be 10K
No they can't have an open display with the soft iron cage for magnetic protection. And that's a component you can't take out for a proper pilot or "Ingenieur" .
@@qwertyman9560 They offer open case back on the much less expensive Baume & Mercier models… same movement
Horology is an artform, you buy art because of the way it makes you feel, you buy a computer for specs
Firstly, awesome video and channel, subscribing now!
I recently bought an IWC Big Pilot 43 and was close to getting this one instead, I think it’s worth the £10k, tried in on at IWC and it’s beautiful, I understand the criticism but I have a feeling this will be the best selling watch of the year. A lot of celebs have bought it.
*Hot Take* I’d love to see IWC bridge the gap into luxury and make this in Rose Gold or full Yellow Gold one day with a champagne or off white dial 👌🏾
I’ve agreed with many of your videos Max, but not this time I’m afraid.
I have a GO seventies panorama date which is also an integrated steel sports watch with an incredible design, superb finishing, amazing movement and a class leading micro adjustable bracelet.
For half the price. And it’s twice the watch.
Zenith’s defy is a similar watch to this and about a third of the price of the titanium version. From an excellent brand with great heritage.
Christopher Ward’s 12 is literally ten times cheaper and I suspect it is not ten times worse. Quite possibly not too far behind.
Forget the genta thing. Take that away for a second. Imagine this is a microbrand watch.
14k? Really?! Personally I don’t think heritage is an acceptable reason to grossly inflate the price of a watch by such an extreme amount.
Apologies for any grievances caused. Not personal, just a humble opinion
Spot on.
Look, it’s a nice-looking watch. I’m sure it’s well made (although I still think it’s too large;38.5mm would have been perfect). However (here it comes), the movement is the same Baumatic 5-day movement you can get in a B&M for a quarter of the price (never mind its origins). And I’m sorry but the initials IWC meant something very rude in my school playground many years ago long before I’d heard if the brand. I simply can’t think past that 😂.
Agree. To much metal on the wrist
I think it’s good, but the price will probably keep a lot of people away from it. $12k is still a lot of money. You could fly to Europe and visit IWC’s factory for a week for that kind of money. You could maybe even buy their 36mm pilot watch as well and still have money leftover!
Agreed
You could fly to IWC’s factory for a week, but you’d be bored after your 3rd coffee after about 2 hours. Plus you’d come home and have nothing to show for it 😂
One thing the “Naysayers” are not considering is if this watch goes up in value? It could be more like $16k-$18k in the next 5 years (current inflation rates) which would make the current cost a bargain… wouldn’t it?
@@LintybaybayIf you’re speculating then you’re in it for the wrong reason.
@@benedekgabor. I’m not in it at all, I don’t have this watch, just the Big Pilot. If you are buying without some speculation on future value then you are missing the point. It’s a luxury watch and most hold value, so of course you would think about potential future value. You shouldn’t buy on a guess, but surely you buy the watch with optimism over potential ROI… if it drops in value no drama, but you can’t tell me never to think of it
@@Lintybaybay This is what is wrong with watches, and for that matter with guitars, cars, and any other hobby. It’s all about money.
You should buy these things to wear it, and not to hope that it becomes your retirement investment. lmao
This is my humble take on the situation. So pls take it for what it’s worth. The ingenieur is gorgeous. And the comparison with the cars that have no bad angles is spot on! It’s a gorgeous watch in every way that a watch can be considered gorgeous. However, I don’t agree that it’s $12k gorgeous.
I'd love to see comparison between this and Alpine Eagle
Alpine Eagle gets my vote over this
I would get the Zenith Defy, it has better and more interesting movement. It's also cheaper as well. Otherwise, I'd go for a grey market GP Laureato in this price range.
Agree 100%
I did not know the Ingenieur had a 120 hr power reserve.
That is incredible and IWC is not doing a good job advertising this fact.
For some, that power reserve is a game changer.
I agree that this watch is well-executed in every aspect: design, ergonomics, movement specs. I’ll even go so far as to say it’s my favorite Genta-inspired modern IB watch. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s still a huge premium to pay for a bracelet that attaches to the case differently than IWC’s other models. A bracelet is not a horological feature, it’s a thing that secures a watch to your wrist. For this money, you could get complications, stunning movement decoration, or in some cases, a customized piece from an independent brand.
The problem isn't that the movement is off-the-shelf, it's that it's a crap movement. I had a Mark XX with that same movement that had to be serviced twice in its first 6 months. Forget COSC, IWC won't even publicly state an accuracy range for it at all. IWC took mine in under warranty when it was running more than 20 seconds off, but it still only managed 7 seconds a day after the full tear-down service. The movement also has also has a glitch where the minute-hand jumps when you pull out or push in the crown during setting, something IWC said was normal and wouldn't repair. I think it's totally legitimate to criticize dumping this movement--as you say, one available in $1k Baume & Mercier models-into a 5-figure IWC. It would be a legitimate criticism if a movement this unreliable and glitchy were in a Seiko 5.
thanks for sharing. helped me made up my mind about this IWC "innovation"
Full disclosure. I’m a huge IWC fan. Own, or have owned, multiple Pilot, Portofino and Portugieser watches. The Ingenieur has yet to find a place in my collection. Is that about to change? The jury is still out. I’m waiting for it to be released to the boutiques before I decide. But my prejudice is that it’s overpriced by $2-2500. But then again, I paid 10 grand for a 43mm Big Pilot. So maybe it’s not. Stay tuned.
Let us not talk about prices. Given this is not going to be your only watch, convince me the IWC Ingénieur will make you happier than rocking a Ch Ward Twelve.
Plus that Christopher Ward packs a far superior movement
@@MeestroDavidthe sellita sw200-1 is literally a clone of the 2824…
Great take. Interested how you would feel about it if the genta name wasn’t attached.
I am not sure G Genta, as a creative designer, would think being stuck in the 1970’s fifty years later is such a great idea. Can’t we really do better that this ?
Let the secondary market dictate the true value of this watch.
I don't think this watch is worth of 12k, but I also don't agree secondary market really values watches honestly.
Its trading a little over MSRP on chrono24, by only 5-15%. I have mine on order. Still another 2-3 months out. This will be a keeper irrespective of future valuation. Classic design, good size for my wrist, and I generally enjoy the fit and feel of the IWC watch. JLC and other swiss notable brands have increased MSRP hugely recently. Its happening irrespective of what we think the watch(s) are worth.
@@stuartlloyd-jones9583that was also my reasoning for buying one. I’m not planning on selling and don’t base my purchasing decision on resale value
if it starts sellign they'll make it rare... that's the trick and this might just do it
Fun fact: Gerald Genta also designed the Omega Seamaster Polaris line. Yes lot of then are quartz, but can get them for about $1000
Hade a few Rolex on my wrist for some twenty year’s ended up with the yacht-master which
I am happy with my one understated.
But the brand is everywhere advertising on F1 or Wimbledon and to me not so special any more and to be honest they aren’t very customer friendly attitude.
I am sick of so many bloggers ( not this channel) with so called experts who know nothing and I am looking for a different watch.
I don’t collect watches I have my one on my wrist but high end been looking and to be honest only a few I would purchase this IWC ingenieur is they only one.
Understated but if you know about watches you know as for price if I trade my Rolex in it’s not that expensive and taking that it probably need a service even better.
But this IWC is in a class of it’s own …..And makes me happy after all we don’t own the watch we are just custodians of it.
Great vid! Can you do a comparison vs the baumatic riviera (translucent saphire dials, not the one you pictured)? Likely the same 4K 120hr movement, +/- .5 seconds per day or less - better than my Omega Diver 300. I have the 42mm black dial and LOVE it on my 7.5" wrist.
Sorry, the price is a joke, and this video only further adds credibility to industry brands that are becoming infatuated with upscaling their offering prices without improving the product in kind.
I have to reluctantly agree with you. When things are ‘hot’ they are taken advantage of and a premium is charged. This whole genta thing is frankly tiresome.
Wait until this watch is hard to get and the price will increase very much in next 1-2 year
@@mohanadmadani1088 lol you bet. Just like all the other limited edition IWC watches that have *checks notes* dropped in price.
Go check one out. What you're saying is nonsense.
@@hoosiercoinreview6428 already have, and I'll always stand by what I said. The price is an insult.
I am very satisfied with your review
I tried on this watch at the boutique and it’s an amawesome creation. I really don’t care for integrated bracelet watches but this one fits like a glove. However the movement in this watch can be found in the IWC mark 20 and other watches at a much cheaper price. Great watch but the price cannot be justified
Really nice watch, if i had the money i would buy it. Iwc is a special brand, you will only understand when youve owned an iwc. Half the people on a budget flight wear Rolex nowadays, there is no exclusivity with Rolex anymore, they are everywhere and most are fake.
It's a great looking watch! Hopefully I'll get a chance to try one on, but that price point and non macro-adjustable clasp (so far) makes it doubtful I'll ever own one. Thanks for the review.
Question is why IWC didn't just cram in the 82000 series movements. It's fully inhouse AFAIK and would probably be a good place to start using them outside of their BP43's
Sadly, the short answer is "margin." The long answer is far more cynical.
This is a very beautiful watch. At the price it is if I could afford this watch I would be tempted to put my other watches away and wear just this watch.
Good call on the E46 M3 - in Alpine White its perfect.
The aqua dial version in person is stunning 👍
Does the bracelet did into your wrist? (4:27)
I was thinking the same thing. "The bracelet is subtle and comfortable" -> meanwhile there's a massive imprint on the wrist. It sure as hell doesn't look comfortable.
Ugh..... it's so beautiful.
I’d still like to see it in person, always having a Mark XX, it’s a pretty hard sell for double the money. Got the GP Laureato in green instead.
I tried on the Aqua model today as I went in to buy a Desert Mojave 41, now I’m torn! lol I do think it’s on the pricey side for what it is to be frank. Even my AD agrees they are priced to high and pressed IWC for justification on the price. They had no answer other than “it is what is it” essentially. Thankfully I still get generous discounts!
It’s super handsome though and the dial really pops. They really nailed the execution.
I’m picking up the white one in a couple days I already put 30% deposit on it. Is it overpriced? Yes. Is it a nice watch? Yea it’s really nice and fits great on the wrist 😊
I do like the watch, however its way too expensive for what it is. With only a three hander and date complication, this, in my opinion, should be max $7K. Definitely a pre-owned buy in the future, and let someone else take the initial hit.
I believe that IWC should have priced it around $20,000. It would work better as a price marketing strategy.
Good stuff max. Sweet shots too. I wasn’t blown away by it when handling it quickly. But I’m happy to be wrong if I could spend some
Time with it. I don’t think it’s overly expensive but I feel they could have made it Under 10k and we would have seen a mega hit getting more new iwc clients
Great analysis. Thank you.
just ordered the titanium model from boutique two weeks ago, was advised the ETA be 2024 Q2/Q3
Hoping they start shipping soon. I paid for Aqua on Mar 27 to get one of first 10 at my boutique. All watches are overpriced so that's not really a thing for me. Thanks for the macro video, it's been impossible to see this level of detail until now.
You got it!
One of the biggest knocks on IWC is the price, especially for Flieger watches.
Not sure if I will ever being willing to drop the cash but I love this watch (on black of course). Maybe one day.
I’m starting to warm to it I have to admit. But ultimately I think the Zenith completely trumps it (especially when factoring in price)
I know people gravitate toward novelties, but an extra $1,800 and you could buy an IWC Portugieser Yacht Club Chronograph on a bracelet. If required, I would just eat beans for awhile and get the Yacht Club.
This video does a good job of explaining why this is a good watch … at $8500
Great video. You just sold me on one
Good video and I think a direct comparison to a Girard Perregaux Laureato would be interesting!
I'm still looking at the Christopher Ward Twelve.
My big giant Tudor GMT Chunkmaster Flex with 15mm slab sided thickness and only 70 hour Power Reserve will eat this Gentrafied homage for breakfast. All joking aside this is a nice watch with the dial, movement and 120 hour power reserve. Not sure why everyone is griping about the price , it seems to offer excellent value. The whole waitlist thing at dealers may make it seem more exclusive and it very well may increase in value. If Casio made a
Nautilus this would be it.
Oh my God, I made my comments before I’d watched all of this video and when I’d watched all of it I felt totally justified. This is a 6K Steel sports watch.
I’m sorry this video just tries to validate the recent practices of the watch industry in general. There has been a collective initiative by all the manufacturers to justify price increases and MSRP’s that are not in line with inflation or with what the previous generation of collectors is used to seeing in mid to high end watch releases.
JLC is doing the same with their high price increases on their base Reverso small seconds which is now over $10k. That’s like a $3k -$4k increase in over as many years. And there is no way anyone should be paying more for this IWC than a Reverso.
Don’t let them fool or gaslight you into thinking these watch price hikes are justified or worth it.
Cool shirt! What brand?
1:17 is the watch comfortable to wear?
I like your taste in cars. I owned an S2000 and a C6 Corvette over the years.
🤜🤛
I don't have the chance to spend one week with it but only 15-20 minutes in the boutique. Honestly it doesn't excite me especially with the whopping price tag and possibly "waiting list" game.
Great review as always. You won me over on this watch, but, that movement 😢
Deciding between this new version and the 3239. Of course new one looks better but seems still 3239 is a better buy? What do you guys think? Getting either one next week 😂
Hard to justify the purchase of this watch if one can get an unworn Sub Date in the grey market at the same price level which beats this watch on every level
It doesn’t have silicon hairspring. Richemont was chastised before once already by swatch-rolex-patek consortium when they used silicon hairspring in 5 days baumatic. But they are allowed to use silicon pallet fork and escape wheel which is what is inside 32111.
Great overall design very similar to an AP. But the finishing on the case and pusher feels cheap. They should have refined it a bit more. Its still a great choice for integrated bracelet and a true genta design. Probably should be worth around 8,000
I’d love to know what somebody like Rodger Smith thinks about this. this is the whole issue with watch movements and discussions about movement manufacture. The truth of the matter is when you get to about 4000 English pounds you have reached a certain point where beyond that there is an awful lot of overpriced watches, JLC and grand Seiko might be different, but when it comes to a steel sports watch it’s ridiculous. It’s a fantastic watch with beautiful finishing, but it is a mass produced steel sports watch and that means it’s worth £6000.
Perfect and lovely, but expensive I think, as well as the others. Bb54 for me by now.
To your question:
Could be overhyped becarse it is wanted to be appreciated? 3500€ could be overhyped..
I think it has the right amount of hype, but far too over priced.
Can you do a comparison between this and the Zenith Defy Skyline.
The Cal. 32111 is also in my Mark XX - and even there, it doesn't stand up against what Omega and Rolex has to offer at this pricepoint.
No COSC or Metas-Certification, no see-thru boittom due to the outdated technology of a soft iron cage...
if you are merely likely the bluish tint dial and not so bothered by the integrated bracelet ,just get a Seiko Ginza LE alpinist (also mentioned previously in this channel by Max) .... maybe can get it around 2k dollars or even under. (despite the original retail at around or under 1K USD). no matter how good this watch mentioned here is , it ain't work 12K dollars period!
Great video. I would love to see one in person and try one on. That always seems like the largest obstacle to anything I see online and have an interest in.
True it doesn’t have a gold rotor because you’re not paying Patek money, but then again you’re not paying Baumé et Mercier money either so the movement shouldn’t be “off the shelf”, top or not! $12K+ should give you something that separates it from others in its collection or group.
I still prefer the GP Laureato's balance of angles and bevels, for my taste it's just the better watch with a finer movement.
Nice Video.
I Love you work man.
Appreciate that 👍
I would get the IWC Mark XX on a bracelet instead. The Ingenieur is a nice watch, no question about it but not that much nicer in order to cost twice as much.
if you want and afford, just grab it !
But if you think out of budget, buy homage !
it's all about wrist game, enjoy it !
Nice presentation as always but for me IWC never interested me, I feel in general that IWC is way over priced for what you get. I stick with SINN for now. 😊
Too expensive. Great vid. Thnx
Underappreciated
makes the old (2000's) Ingenieur models seem like a good deal. looking to scoop titanium AMG model for under 4k
You mispelled E46. It's E36. Joking aside, beautiful presentation and watch! Thank you
This is a market case, I dont deny it looks great but inside their own brand, there is a previous ingenieur the IW 323906, with genta DNA, good specs. Take a look and price aside it makes us think......
In this weird hobby, and in the luxury market in general, there's no real sense of what overpriced might be. However, this watch comes as close to objectively overpriced as I can imagine.
ingenieur wasn't discontinued in 76' though
What can I say but
IXDAO, is the IWC worth 60 times more?
Integrated bracelet design doesn't give you the ticket to demand any price you think you can charge , they got it all wrong, even the proportions are not right let alone thickness , even the lugs design is frankly out of place here .
I think IWC missed a great opportunity .
It’s perfection ❤…
An OK looking watch for mine. That it sits aesthetically between PO and Nautilus is a meh for me as I'm not a fan of either. Compared rationally to the Mark XX it is clearly over-priced, and loving your videos as I always do, you haven't swayed me on this one, Max. I take your point on actually getting one in hand, but I'm not going to.
Silicon Hairspring? Can someone confirm on this?
No, its still incredibly overpriced. Stainless steel watches exceeding $3k is just ridiculous IMHO. And the fact that its an off the shelf movement, regardless of how high that shelf is, makes it even worse. So what exactly justifies the price tag?
JMHO - Price too high for what it is - prefer the GP Laureato which offers incredible value - particularly on the secondary market.
The most I'll pay for this watch is 🤔 $400.00 dollars yeah! that's it................
So tired of the integrated bracelet trend. I understand that IWC has crafted and great watch. Tired of the aesthetic. It feels played out, not unlike Tag Heuer in the 80s/ 90s…
Just because a watch is exclusive due to it’s price doesn’t mean that the aesthetic is suitable. Not a fan of the PRX. I love Direnzo, but not a fan of their integrated offering…
They are a bit late