One D&D Sorcerer/Wizard Discussion - Ridiculous power jumps to widen the gap
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- In this episode Ellie, Jarred, and Will dive into the new One D&D UA to specifically cover both the new Sorcerer and Wizard! We cover all the changes and give our thoughts on the direction of D&D. Are we excited about the changes and the future? Or are we looking to jump ship?!
FanRoll (use code MM10) - fanrolldice.com/
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Intro music by @Thisisbardcore. / thisisbardcore
Find us and the podcast version: linktr.ee/Monster_multi
Will's Backgrounds: Kael Pixel kael.crd.co/
00:00 Cold open and Intro
01:20 Sorcerer Discussion
35:00 Wizard Discussion 
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![A Crap Guide to D&D [5th Edition] - Sorcerer](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EHJGJL40cQs/mqdefault.jpg)
![Pathfinder: Hero Frame - Athamaru [the Fish-men from "Howl of the Wild"]](/img/1.gif)
Great episode! And i just wanted to say, as a member of the community, a riotous pride to Ellie.
In a hobby where you get to live out your wildest fantasies, it takes true bravery to show your true self to the world and not balk.
There is no debate whether anyone's existence is valid, and i know it is exhausting to have that called into question, so i only hope that, for however briefly, words like mine help ease what unwarranted contention you may feel in times like these.
Much love, Cam. 💙
Thank you so much for the kind words and support! -Ellie
The randomness/chaos side of this base sorcerer i abhor. That should of been saved for a subclass aka wildmagic sorcerer. It feels like being pigeonholed into playing a subclass in current 5e I would never play, meh.
Yeah it's odd that they're trying to make THAT the class identity. Sorcerer just feels like an afterthought
Twinned+ careful fireball.
Heightened + extend.
At this point,I wonder why dont WotC make seperate section for Class specific spells at the end of the each class's describtion section: It is pain in the butt to search for class features hiding in spell section mixed up with other mage classes' features as well.
To be honest, nothing really entice me to play Sorcerer at the moment,.
As for Wizard, there are ways to be super powerful: just imagine, frinedly fire-less Grease, Web, Fireball, and Sleet Storm.
Wizard might bring chills to DM's spine.
Fun fact: a d6 which can "explode" (i.e. you roll an extra d6 if you roll a 6) once will deal an average of 4.08 damage. But a d6 which can "explode" indefinitely will deal an average of 4.2 damage.
I’m really not a fan of the 1000gp gold cost for creating a spell. Not only does it make the party wizard disproportionately hungry for the party’s money, it also forces the GM to be cautious with not only the amount of money they provide the party with, but also how much downtime they let the party have.
Combine this with having to design encounters that the wizard can’t trivialize with their hugely versatile spell portfolio, and it seems like once you get to a certain tier of play, the GM’s job seems to shift from “presenting an engaging, challenging adventure for the whole table” to “constantly reigning in the wizard” in almost every pillar of gameplay.
Such a great point.
And it's BENEFICIAL to pump the wizard with gold.
So few downsides.
They are squishy sure, but they can still do so much for survivability.
To your point Jared @56:14 , I really agree that we did not see any major nerfs to Wizards or spell casters in this packet like we had with Paladins or Fighters. While the martial classes might be getting support with new weapons features and the weapon masteries I don't think the create spell is an equal trade at all lol.
I can only see the spell causing DMs more issues at character creation. I can imagine that if a campaign started at lvl 10, a player could make a 200 yr old wizard Elf Noble with unlimited time and gold to customize their entire spell book prior to the game.
I would say the double metamagic thing for sorcery incartate would be good for twinned spell and something else except twinned spell is worthless now.
The reason for tor the 100 pages is because as you modify the spells you add them to your book, so this (along with the GP and downtime) put restrictions on the number of spells you can modify and make permanent in your book.
5:55 Oh we saw Warcaster alright. And it got buffed (adding a +1 ASI, in the Experts UA)
7:30 I feel like the bigger reason for the change for Twinned was that they got tired of clarifying what spells could be Twinned (the whole "you can't twin Dragon's Breath because the breath counts as targeting another creature" thing)
15:00 I wouldn't say the cantrip is really leaning into "random" since it lets you choose the damage type. It's more "versatility". It's a single cantrip that can deal a lot of different types of damage. It has good range, and I also think the exploding dice is fun even if not mathematically superior (although the cone option for Draconic subclass can be pretty beefy damage with it since all the damage rolls are separate)
21:00 It just feels like you should regain 1d4 Sorc points at the start of each turn, or temp sorc points so you can actually use a bunch of metamagic. But yeah there's not enough metamagics to be worthwhile really. The best uses are probably going to be Heighten + Subtle (disadvantage on social spells), maybe Careful + Transmuted (pick a better damage type against enemy but don't hurt your friends), and then Quicken, Distant, and Extended would just sorta be "as needed" ones
notably, the spell only lets you use "up to" 2 metamagics. So you can't use Empowered or Seeking and then 2 others, it doesn't benefit those two
27:00 I still feel like losing Wish isn't really that big of a punishment. Unless we get Tarrasques that need Wish to be completely killed back, there's very few problems that NEED Wish to solve, so losing it just means you pick a different 9th level spell. I think people would be less scandalized by it if it were changed to "you can lose the ability to cast Wish normally, but you can still use this feature to replicate spells of 8th level or lower without expending a 9th level spell slot".
28:49 that feeling when Jarred calls him "Bill" instead of "Billy"
34:00 It's honestly a huge nerf going from flying as much as you want to flying for up to 2 minutes.
38:00 Also like, now it HAS to be a literal book. Or at least more definitively. I had a great time coming up with alternative spellbooks. A wizard I'll be playing soonish records her spells on maps. Imagine a warforged wizard where the pages are bolts and the spells are written with with nuts on them. Another idea was a perfumer wizard where they have a small vial of fragrance for each spell, which triggers the powerful olfactory memory to remind them of how the spell is cast. Imagine sniffing a vial and going "mmh... smells like Fireball"
44:18 but if you're in combat, you probably don't have 1 minute to swap out anyway. I think this needs to be a 1 Action non-ritual (so it could potentially save the day in combat) or a 1 hour ritual
47:40 It lets you remove costly components that aren't consumed!! No more big diamond for Gate, no more pearl for Identify, no more insanely costly components for the Imprisonment spell, no more rare tuning fork for Plane Shift, no more Scrying sensor, etc. If you had costly components like those before (say for Identify or Chromatic Orb) you can now just sell those and get some of the money back for Creating the spell
50:00 I will note that both Thunderclap and Earth Tremor are from XGTE, and both, honesty, should be Self (X feet) spells based on their descriptions. This is just like how Booming Blade used to just be "5 feet" and they changed that to "Self (5 feet)" because it doesn't actually make sense otherwise. Sword Burst is basically the same as Thunderclap and it's Self (5 feet)
59:00 I do think at some point you guys should do an episode on the Glossary changes. I know it's harder because those change pretty much every playtest, but those have some important things. Like the crit rules changing and then changing back. The new Exhaustion rules which are no longer here and makes me scared. Rules on attacking and drawing weapons and etc etc.
Also excited for next playtest to see what they do with Monk! (I am scared)
Can't believe I forgot it was Billy and Mandy. Lol listening to it back in like "yeah that sounds wrong"
I love the wish thing tho I just think it shouldn’t be actually wish it sorcerer is supposed to be the embodiment of magic I like they can cast all the spells but the whole warping of reality
They massacred my sorcerers,,,,
For real though why on EARTH should it cost a resource for wings now? I loved the flavor of your magic growing and physically changing you as you step into it, with the wings as extension of what your inate magic represents. And ouch that metamagic....
The exploding dice may be “fun”, but mathematically the sorcerer cantrip does terrible damage. The exploding mechanic adds about 0.7 damage per die…
Really that's it? What a shame!
@@MonstersMulticlass Treantmonk actually calculated expected dmg in Sorcerer vidoe (1) and it does not look good, even though first burst would happen more often than critical hit.
(1) ruclips.net/video/8ziHV1MbbL4/видео.html around 4:25
Would upcasting a spell be an acceptable alternative to spending a sorcery point to use a metamagic? (Btw love your work)
That could be neat! It'd need to be the cost of the difference between the spell slots meta magic point cost.
But I wonder how useful it'd be in actual play.
Seeing as most times you could just upcast freely, then convert your slots or mm points later.
And thanks for the support! ❤️
@@MonstersMulticlass I would rule it'd need to be a one for one cost for both simplicity and power balance reasons. As for usefulness it gets around the action economy cost of spell slot to sorcery point conversion (the upcasting method could even replace it tbh as it gets around wierd exploits like sorlock)
I forget if the metagagic adept feat is still in the new version but if it is: Distant spell no longer works with it Unless you dip into sorcerer. I like the idea of being stronger with sorcerer levels. But should still have a weaker effect with the feat. Have it say 30 feet per sorcerer level OR 15 per character level.
Meta magic feat hasn't come out yet. So no clue on how they will run it.
But I could see "Per caster level" or something being a nice balance for it?