You doing the most.. All you gotta do is Sidechain the kick & 808. Using soothe 2 is the easiest cuz you can dip the frequencies where your kick lives in your low end without dipping the whole low end.
@@Skyraemusic your understanding is very surface level, not that that’s wrong or anything but go ahead and do that if it’s easier for you… When you duck only low end frequencies from a sound without ducking the entire sound itself, you introduce more phase issues to whatever sound's low end frequencies are being ducked because... In order to duck ONLY frequencies in the low end region, the phase has to be shifted at that given crossing point. Which is why frequency focused ducking on a specific region isn’t really the move. And did you not watch the part where I showed how the attack & release time is very limited with soothe? There’s literally a whole section explaining where soothe is not the move, & how THAT’s doing too much and is redundant… Controlling the phase of your low end is VERY crucial which is why the first method is better than any side chain compression because unless you’re using an oscilloscope to dial in your side chain compression settings, You’re not going to accurately be able to control the peaks with simple compression settings via sidechain such as attack & release time, threshold, & ratio of the compression down to the very last cycle of the waveform 99% of the time, Because there's too many variables you have to get right making the first method in this video 1000x better than traditional sidechain compression WHICH is the main question/comment I received for this video "Can't you just use sidechain compression bro? You're literally overcomplicating it when sidechain compression does the same thing" Yes technically is does, but very poorly and limited at that for reasons I already provided. (i.e not being able to control whatever's being sidechain compressed down to the very last cycle to fully maximize the waveforms peak performance) But again, Go ahead and be my guest and do that if you want the two samples to add up or cancel out in some weird unfavorable way which again could affect the overall impact of your low end... Anyways do whatever you think is easiest for you, but the videos right here explaining everything. If it’s too much and you don’t want to do it this way that's fine, But I’m not gonna explain again why soothe or basic/traditional sidechain compression isn't the best when it’s literally right there in the video 😅
Nah. Common mistake. You just randomly sidechain COMPRESS? You’re forcing the compressor algorithm to do something it isn’t primarily designed for: clip gain. JUST sc compressing is an intermediate level trick. What this whole video is showing you is how NOT to make the compressor struggle. If you just sidechain compress to do this, you’re going to increase some of the inherent distortion that comes with, and it’s not going to be fast enough to grab that bass and duck it. Add clip gain FIRST? Your compressor will do a better job sidechaining and will give you an overall better result. But I do agree to clip gain each wave is tedious and unnecessary because you can side chain that as well with Shaperbox, which ALSO allows you to sc compress. All one plugin. Excellent utility to just slap on your template and you have MUUUUUUCH better control over that automation curve to lo key trace the shape of the incoming signal (kick) AND you can make it so it only clip gains the frequency range you want in the low end. But I still use both clip gain and sc compression as is done here, just with BOTH triggered by sidechaining.
You can use the soothe sidechain and the clip gain together but the trick is to take the kick sc and slide it back a few sample 2-10 so that soothe is operating on a psuedo look ahead so that your pump lines up
I see that makes a little more sense I still haven’t tried that out which I’ll have to test but the way Jaycen mentioned it in the mix with the masters video he didn’t mention that at all unless I missed it, Plus he also mentioned that if you want more or less ducking you just adjust the depth but I don’t see much use of that because if it’s not ducking completely it’ll still have the ability to phase out or introduce constructive interference where the peaks start to shoot up again which is counter intuitive to the first clip gain automation technique And the thing is if you use side chains that have a cross over point it’ll still effect the sub in some way shape or form where the kick and sub will be out of phase which you can’t always control if the sub is playing different notes but for the downbeat or most impactful sections of your mix it is much quicker and easier to only use the clip gain automation really and if you get the envelope precise in that way you wouldn’t need the soothe, it’s a bit overkill from what I’ve tested so far I just gotta try out the look ahead you mentioned and report back to what I might discover doing that and if it’s even worth it or not but those are the little caveats I’ve discovered…
@@goobstersroom so on mix with the masters it’s part 3 of advanced mix techniques where he talks about the 2 samples ahead back then he was using c6 though I just personally carried that over into the soothe but I don’t have an oscilloscope plugin to tell visually but his main thing with it is instead of using a send or an aux it’s duplicating the track with all its processing on or I guess just commit it now there’s no time discrepancies between the trigger and the kick you hear then you introduce the sample delay
I rarely watch videos related to mixing cause im a bit lazy sometimes... But I have to admit it, I watched most of yours cause you have the way of saying things, you get to the point and also you show that you know your stuff. nice one
Been doing music stuff basically all my life and somehow this is the first time I’ve ever seen that psyscope thing and it looks awesome haha crazy how there is still software that slips thru the radar.
I’m midway through this video as I type this comment. I do something similar, but this really drove this concept home for me and encouraged me to be more meticulously and methodical when mixing kick & 808
Great tips, thanks a lot! For Soothe SC, you don't need to duplicate the tracks. You can send them to the sidechain using sends, which keeps your track list tidier and accounts for all the plugins on the channels without duplicating them, thus reducing CPU load. Glad you pointed out the delay of soothe on the sub-ducker with the kick sc, I've always felt like it's pumping a bit but have never checked on a waveform analyzer. Great stuff, keep doing your thing!
Yeah you could do that but the reason Jaycen does it like that in this way is to supposedly be able to move the waveform left or right to compensate for the pumping & to reset the signal of the clip gain automation on the beginning of the 808 transient to trigger the soothe properly. But still if you even try that then the release isn’t fast enough which is why just the soothe technique is still iffhy to me and is something I would only use for a last resort with multiple bass instruments firing off at the same time. But thank you for watching!
@@andiherzog I gotta thank the comments for that one cuz even myself I wasn’t too aware until they pointed it out haha 🔥 but there’s always something new to learn everyday!
How is ducking the bass to open the throughput for the kick, not exactly what’s happening when you sidechain? Sidechaining in lieu would consume less ram.
@@fritzhieke7209 you’d need a multiband compressor to do a frequency specific sidechain, and you’d need to know exactly what frequency you are ducking ahead of time. Soothe takes that guess work out and speeds up the process.
I like Duck by DM. I'm good at ducking a pure sub bass but trying to perfect a more complex, full spectrum bass without it sounding too sterile. I'm experimenting with running two instances of Duck. One a short full spectrum volume shape- say 40 ms and another band split instance longer throughout the length of the kick. Ducks 2-band crossover has individual mix knobs so I set the low to 100% and hi to taste. The result is that all of my bass tracks frequencies drop out on the attack of the hit, and my basses mids fading in faster than it's lows. This of course comes at the cost of having a band-split in the mix. The other option would be designing the sub seperate from the midbass and setting individual full spectrum volume ducking on each track. Another tip that I discovered is to use a room simulation like Waves CLA Nx. I mix in good headphones but it's hard to really hear the perfect curve when sub wobble goes away and the two sounds mesh together. Baphometrix talked about this in a video called controlling the low end, where you othereise need farfields or a seat kicker to feel what the sub bass is doing. After the holidays I'm taking my current project to a local studio to make further adjustments where I can use their room.
He explained one weakness with attack and release curves... I'm an intermediate but this is where I'm currently at: One reason for choosing manual volume shaping in that scenario is the precision of control. For a kick and sub, I want minimal sub-frequency phasing which creates gain "wobbles", even brief ones. This brief flutter is only exacerbated when pushed into the master limiter. May sound okay on earbuds but ass on a large system. This also applies to kick and a broader frequency synth bass but the solution becomes more tricky without sounding sterile. One considerstion is the destructive nature of anything multiband. There's also something about non-linear processes and the distortion inherent to compressors but I'm not on that level yet. I once heard that loud genres of EDM and etc. come down to the millisecond and am quickly learning it to be true. These guys are going for headroom to push mixes into the limiter so they hit in the club without sounding flabby or muddy or even sterile.
Really? You won't have a problem with getting loud and clean in mastering if your low end not phasing then. If you ever want to double check, try psyscope. They have a indefinite trial version but it times out after 10 minutes until you restart your DAW. Put one psycscope on the end of your kick inserts and another on the end of your bass inserts. Select layered view. If you see the color of the bass layer in the kick transient, it's phasing unless the waves naturally line up which I my expereince is rare - I don't tune my kicks to the root note and my bass notes vary.
Referring to technique #1, can’t you just use sidechain compression on the bass track ducking the kick instead of doing manual clip gain automation? Awesome video btw, thanks for sharing!
In my mind I don't see why you couldn't, sidechain compression is a standard technique. Although I would assume that by using clip gain instead, you could match the duration of the kick to an exact measurement whereas a compressor might have a little leeway due to attack/release time restrictions; not to mention the cpu load a compressor could contribute to when the lookahead function is engaged. A compressor could also impart some unwanted harmonics to the affected track depending on the type used.
Yes you can! I find using manual clip gain automation gives you more control though. For me personally it's easier to draw the envelope rather than tweaking the sidechain settings.
When you use the clip gain automation it's much easier to see the exact envelope you need to be ducked from the kick vs using a sidechain compressor. There is another plugin that does this really well that's an alternative but I'm going to go more in depth with that on a later video 🤫
18:40 Now, it may be because these are solo’d kick/808/SynBass? But what I’m hearing in the cans (Sony WH-1000XM5’s, basically prosumer and not my pro mixing Senns so not “ideal”, but still telling nonetheless) What I’m hearing is the saturation on the kick attack and 808 body from the boom buss conflicting with the synthtacularity (😂) of rhe SynBass. It may behoove a sound nerd such as we are to analyze with an oscilloscope where that saturated upper freq is on the boom buss is, and add another node in Soothe (which in fairness I’ve never used, but I do see other dots there? I’m guessing you can activate one of those?) to duck the synth as well, but just a smidge 🤏 and with a much quicker release. I say a smidge because in the higher frequencies, a little goes a longer way than the lows. (Think Nyquist). So if you cutting the lows with a hpf as is here, that’s knocking out ALL the lows via sidechain. Okay. A bit extreme, but there are use cases. In the higher sizzle area (where you may create some phase issues unaccounted for via that one HPF node, use a band curve with whatever Q value makes it least noticeable to the listener, and adjust the attack to whatever is needed to cancel the problem, and use a faster than you’d expect release. Faster release = less noticeable Dibia$e/STLNDRM-esque slump beat pumping. The key of all this is to make it sound the same, but tighter (without phase cancellation) as without anything. This is all done for an audience of ☝🏾 one: your mastering dynamics. Like you said, it makes it so you don’t need a bunch of comps in a clearly overdone mastering chain (glares at himself, who uses EVERY comp in Slate Digital, Izotope AND Fg-X to master because I can and this ain’t my real job 😂). Less of these low freq transient buildups = less need to grab a clipper on your buss or master, and less noticeable distortion if you do. It allows the master bus dynamics processing to work on tone and LUFS, not as an eraser. It cannot do both. So louder but with preserved overall dynamics. Like Jayson said: he already 2db ahead of you just by doing the first thing of drawing in volume automation. It’s not for YOU to hear or notice, it’s for the computer to appreciate during your stereo mix.
This was why Poise was so intuïtive, like working with an mc, but without the workaround and faster results. Ideal for assembling sampled kicks with 808 etc 👊🏼
🤔 Interesting... I tend to try to account for a lot of this when I'm producing the track. Obviously if a mix engineer doesn't have access to the original track files, he has to with with what he is given. All that said, i think upcoming or even seasoned producers should take heed to what's being shared in this video. One thing I've learned over the years is 75% of the way your mix sounds is dictated but how it was tracked/recorded... (In other words, the production of it). If the instruments were already well-placed, you may not have to really use all of these tricks and tips on a mix. 💯💯👍🏿
This is great intel and bringing a bit more knowledge and detail to what's really happening with the phase. Really like the visual feed back the psyscope pro brings to the table. . Also wasn't using soothe to do side chaining but will def being messing with it now. Neutron's masking feature is almost a combination of all these techniques but it can be even better. I asked a plugin developer (almost 15+ years ago) to make a Kik-n-Bass plugin that would do the ducking, show the phase relationship and allow you do adjust the phase for the perfect marriage. They said "amazing idea, too complicated". There is still even more to consider, will watch to see how you fixed the phase.
@@thespinjunkies2437 appreciate you for watching! And there is a plugin that’s very similar it’s duck by devious machines but I gotta make the video for that one next 😏
So if I'm lucky enough to be working with the MIDI still, would there be anything wrong with just ducking the beginning part of the 808 sample if you know it's going to hit with drums?
@@Daymon_Music to me I think that’s two different buckets, if you still have the midi then it sounds like you’re still producing which sure you could get away with some slight mixing in the production stage or go as in depth as you want it’s entirely up to you. But for a personal preference I like to split producing, mixing, and mastering into their own sorts of things so that way each part of the song gets its own full focus. If you’re still producing and have the luxury of the midi and you still want to try this method what I would do is consolidate the 808 or low end as an audio track to apply the processing that way and have the midi muted in the background somewhere where you could pull it back if needed if you wanted to make any changes in the pattern or notes for whatever reason. But this is why I personally would split the two because if you don’t give yourself any creative constraints when you’re making music you realistically could be going back and forth tweaking stuff forever. Which is why again I say as a personal workflow thing I would split the different parts of the music creation process but you can try what I mentioned with the consolidation and come up with your own workflow that best suits you! Hope that helps!
Thanks for this breakdown man - I love these tricks, the 1st one clears up everything so easily. Question about the Soothe trick: he describes this process in another video that someone reposted from a live stream, "how Jaycen joshua mixes bass" and he mentions in at about 3 minutes. The only difference is that it looks like he puts the Soothe on his Boom bus and not the bass bus (you also can see a grainy close up of the soothe settings). Ducking the bass with SC makes a lot of sense but have you experimented with ducking the Boom? Also did you grab this info from this Mix With the Masters class? I've been thinking about checking it out. Thanks so much for this explanation!
Yes it would you just need to understand that if you do the clip gain you're automating before it hits the plugins on the track which is something you may desire or if you do it with the volume automation you're going to be automating all your processing after the fader which is also something you may desire as well. Just do it in whatever order you feel would get you the best results for your music!
For the first technique, just use a lfo tool triggered by the kick and adjust it................ it take 20 seconds and it's exactly the same result, you can even be more accurate with a scope
Yes, at 10:13 I alluded to this I just haven't made the video explaining that technique yet. This video was breaking down specifically how Jaycen Joshua does it but obviously there's a better more efficient and accurate way of pulling this off (that I prefer). But that just shows how educated you are on the subject which is a good thing! You're ahead of most people
Ever since Ableton 12.0, for some reason I will have had my play marker at the start and then randomly I’ll hit play after doing something and it’ll start playing from the end of the clip/looped section in the arrangement view. Is this a bug does anyone know?
What I typically do because it’s the fastest is to use EQ to boost the kick around 60-75ish depending on the kick then EQ the 808 in the same area to carve out space. To take it up a notch can you use dynamic eq only on the 808 itself. I honestly feel like this is nearly effective if not equally as effective. I saw another Grammy mixer use this technique and for my workflow I feel like this is enough. Do it right to prevent pumping or phasing but it’s so easy and fast to do. I’ll just have both eq playing at the same time and make my marks on the eq band. In an old studio session JJ also did this, but I can’t find that video anywhere anymore. He had some full studio sessions on RUclips but I think he was droppin too much sauce and had them deleted. What are your thoughts on this technique bro?
Curious what you think the difference is between automating with clip-gain, versus automating a trim tool on bass at the end of the chain. I got these tips second hand, so had been doing it that way and seems to work. Lots of details in your vid I hadn't heard before with his techniques. Adding slope on the attack side is killer. Instant subscribe for me.
Thank you this video! Makes so much sense. I have not been able to get great results with Kickstart 2, Soothe2 with what I just saw here. It makes so much sense now. I have two questions for you. 1) I'm a Logic user. Would this work the same way if I were to chop the 808 samples and draw the fade on each sample that would match the envelope of the kick? Technically it makes sense to me that it would work the same way as in Pro Tools. 2) Would you use this technique on the Bass Guitar and a Kick Sample? Thank you :)
so it is pushing me to think about when the musicians and producers are making music will be better avoiding that first bass impact to let the kick be alone right? but as i can see the signal there are no much attack in that bass line so what happen if the bass is really punchy in the first transient and you don't want to loose the bass attack even the kick?
The key here if you want a loud mix is understanding how your sounds sum and work together. I only went into kick and bass for this example but if you really look into it if a hi hat hits the same time as a snare they sum and the peak increases. Same thing goes for every other instrument that plays at the same time and you gotta be able to know how to side chain properly to get everything sounding tight without any pumping but again this is all to taste because it could get very technical but is why it is also a very advanced skill set to have. You mentioned if the bass doesn’t have a heavy transient but the kick does, or the example of the kick and bass both have heavy transients and you want that impact what then? We’ll you either pick one or the other, or if you like how both sound then to maintain the peak I would just clip the signal but with the two instruments summing together the peak is going to be super high so it’ll hit the clipper hard and you’ll most likely hear very audible distortion. That is why before you even mix your sound selection is absolutely crucial, you gotta make sure the sounds you pick work well together but again this is all to taste. It’s just for loudness mainly cuz if somebody wished go ahead and layer 10 kicks with 1 808 or whatever example you want. You just need to understand what that is doing under the hood which is increasing your peak, which will trigger your limiter much easier, which will not let you push it as hard without hearing audible ducking and unintentional clipping giving you flat cheese grated mix, making the overall quality and loudness very very low. So it’s all about intent and truly understanding what each sound is doing to your mix under the hood to get to where you want to be. Not every song has to be loud nor should it be but just all things to consider and is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mixing. Hope that helps lmk if you have any other questions
This is awesome bro! You broke this down so well. Have you tried the plugin called Duck? It does the same trick but its so much easier to dial in how much 808 you take out volume wise and how long you want your duck to last. You can also select a frequency range to duck. It's so versatile. I highly recommend it, especially to Cubase users, as Soothe cannot be sidechained in Cubase. Peace
@@darneljoseph388 no because of the way that everything is routed, The duplicate tracks are routed out to the sidechain and nothing else so if you were to solo them you would literally hear nothing. They’re just being used to trigger the sidechain only so the plugin knows when to duck the signal. Hope that makes sense
Something to note: If you're using this technique make sure your kick selection has enough bottom end. If said producer eq's out the bottom of the kick to blend with the the 808 it won't sound as good. It'll sound even better if you tune the kick to the key of the song #producerproblems
@@orimizrahi1100 no it’s a good question actually and I get it a lot. But to be very clear, The main difference between the two and the reason why this is MUCH better than a sidechain is that you can manually match the envelope of the kick duration to duck down whenever the 808 hits with a very unique envelope that compression simply can not do. On a compressor you have your attack and release but to get it perfectly on the nail would be much longer and take a lot more fiddling and tweaking than if you were to manually draw the automation in. And if you see when I pull up the oscilloscope, it’s ducking the perfect amount for the duration length of the kick. If you use a compressor for sidechain, the attack might be off, or the release might be too long where you hear pumping, or vice versa where the release is too short and the phase of the kick and 808 are interfering in some nasty way that completely takes away from the effect which could still drive your peak way up or null the two where you’re getting phase cancellation and end up having a weak sounding bass. Does that make sense?
For my desktop I have CPU: Amd Ryzen 5950x GPU: AMD Radeon 6700xt RAM: 64gb SSD: 12 tb But to edit all of these videos I have a mobile setup I take with me everywhere to do all of my editing for this channel and it’s a laptop from a company called Kreative Devices and it’s more affordable than my desktop and it performs just as great and I have a full video on it right here! Lmk if that helps 🔥 Here’s the link ruclips.net/video/KxrHMgKnLjA/видео.htmlsi=8TSSiOZg-dYe8MN6
Just subbed man. Took a look at your channel and you have great information here. I’m a producer who mixes (pretty effectively) as I go, but looking to get into serious mixing to generate some income on the side. I couldn’t help pondering the idea about sidechaining gain. Someone needs to make a plugin for that. Essentially it would be like clip automation but at least the plugin can do it for you, then give the plugin some ways to control the sidechain volume to prevent how much, trimming, roll off etc. if you make the plugin remember it was my idea lol. I’ll take 2%
@@RealNuruMusic I appreciate you bro and that plugin already exists and it’s very affordable!! Check out Duck by devious machines and that’ll do the trick! It’s a hidden weapon that I didn’t get much into this video but way more efficient 😉
Could be the same thing but the clip gain automation in pro tools is pre fader which is what we want in this case. If the cubase gain automation is pre fader then you should be good!
Great video thanks for sharing it. For my ears, the music/mix examples could come up in the mix compared to your voice which seemed a lot louder in the video.
@@_20nine_ nah because the phase of the two instruments will still sum together or cancel out eventually depending on the sample and how it long it plays out for which is why this is important for kick and bass to get right. But if you’re doing something like a hihat and a clap or snare a nudge there would be perfectly fine since they’re much tighter in wavelength in those higher frequencies
@@_20nine_ No. I'm saying that if you want to be more precise, there's other steps you have to take... cuz I nudge things all the time in my mixes too, but you don't just do only that and call it a day
why not use duck budy or lfo tool or side chain gate? u could also duplicate the kick and make a ghost kick track, scoot it back a few ms or less so there wont be the delay of the attack time for the compressor to kick in. you can see jayson has the “attack” down ramp happen slightly before the kick hits. i think that would acheive the same effect. One other thing to consider is, he’s automating the CLIP gain, so this is prior to any other processing. Most people put sidechain compression and other ducking tools at the end of their chain, but here he is adjusting a clip gain, so he’s actually ducking it first before it goes into his mix processing Which is interesting to me and probably an important distinction.
@@jasonwolchuk787 ive explained this countless times in the comments and you could read more about it if you want a deeper elaboration. But yes of course you could use duck i know this, im just explaining what he does. The only thing I missed was moving the ghost kick track back but other people again have noted that soothe still doesnt work good like that. And i did mention that hes doing clip gain in the video
@@harpoleon6806 yeah it was, to me the tubesessor has more of a tone and character compared to a cl1b which some may or may not like. What I mean by that is that you can hear the compression happening more audibly if you slam it compared to a cl1b where it sounds super transparent and is harder to make sound bad. With that being said I would probably just buy a used one in good condition if you're looking at this if you can't get an actual Cl1b, but I still like it. Another underrated compressor that I think would probably be another good versatile option that's a bit more affordable but sounds just as fire is the WesAudio NG 76. A buddy of mine has that one and it's super fire so I would recommend either that or to cop the Tubesessor used cuz it's still pretty pricey for a TubeTech clone.
His god particle plugin got me to -6.4 LUFs in my bedroom studio with no distortion….its the best level I ever achieved by a mile….prior to that I think I hit -11.
thanks for such a great video! just one suggestion as someone watching on my studio setup on my monitors - it would be great if you could set the volume of your speech between the videos a little low or increase the volume of your protools recorded audio and jaycens interviews since to hear the low end i have to crank up the volume and then suddenly when the video swithces to your commentary on the topic its too loud! again thanks for the informative videos!
Haha for sure! It gets pretty in depth but if you follow along with your own material and practice that's the best way it's gonna stick and start to make more sense but you'll get it! 🔥
Wow.. The hate in "comments" here is special.. Its spicy, yet flavorful, and has all the right portions. A little "You know nothing" mixed with a pinch of Classism. Great job guys. Great job indeed. LOL. Listen bro.. use the haters as fuel. LOL Why is is the Inner-Webs like this?
@@BulAGOAT that’s just the reality of the engineering community, everyone thinks they’re right which if they already know what’s good yes I agree why the hate 😂. But coming from where I originally posted more videos that received more hate (instagram) I just got used to it, don’t take it serious, and love to troll back 🤣. Cuz it’s not that serious to me at least to be all flustered over it. Appreciate you for showing love tho thank you for your comment and thank you for watching 🙌
@@jonassteinberg3779 nickname I’ve had for a long time since before music when I used to skate. It came from an instagram handle but it stuck and everyone called me goobster. Since people around me were already used to that I just used it for my music career and made it “Goobster’s Room” cuz this is my room where I make music basically
@@jonassteinberg3779 me pulling the name out of my a$$ when I was thinking of an instagram handle. Literally no deep thought into it or anything lol. And when I made that handle in high school again people just called me that when I would skate and the legacy continues lmao
Surely you don't expect one video to solve all of your mixing problems... Mixing goes way more in depth than that but at least now you know what to do if you ever come across that situation
@@josiahscottquinn Okay so from others they say that jaycen joshua duplicates the tracks so that way he can move the sample back so that way the release of the soothe is still timed properly so that it doesn't create that pumping effect, but people also mentioned that even the attack of the soothe isnt fast enough when they do that which still lets the transient of the kick or whatever other sample you're using which is why using soothe still has its disadvantages. And if you use Pro MB, even if you set the ratio to the hishest setting, knee to the highest setting and range to duck out the most, it still let's signal through which defeats the purpose of even trying to get anything useable out of the pro MB All in all, that's why when you use frequency based sidechains when trying to process kick and 808s it's not even really practical which is why I introduced the caveat section for technique 2 in this video & is why for best results I recommend to just use only the clip gain automation, There are other plugins that have similar effects but back to the frequency based sidechain, it'll still introduce phase which will go back to increasing the peak volume when the kick and 808 sample hit which AGAIN circles back to just only ducking the 808 when the kick hits using the clip gain automation or using other ducking plugins that are NOT frequency based are the most practical After all this you may be asking then why even include that in the video? Well... because that is what Jaycen Joshua does and that's what the video is about. But I'm going to try other plugins that people are using to do similar processing and I'll make another video to share my discoveries. But moral of the story is that whenever you see mixing tips & tricks online, always test them out yourself to see how you could use the techniques to see if they work best for you and your mixes. This was a LONG answer but it is very intricate and detailed so I hope that answered your questions!! But stick around and if you want to learn more about mixing then consider subscribing so we could both be on the journey to new mixing discoveries. Again super dense answer but I hope it answered your question! Feel free to write back if you have any other mixing questions regarding this topic! And thank you for tapping in! 🙏
@@Sniper_T_2x Use your own plugins and just test every mixing technique out for yourself to see if it's practical for what you're trying to achieve to implement into your workflow. But thank you for tapping in!!
Man, I thank you for this video! But, not as a critique, but to make you laugh, you're making me believe that if someone ties your right arm you'll become a mute guy. Talking about ducking the subs, I prefer to use DUCK. A bit more aggressive than using a specific freq range (DUCK can limit the freq range, too) but that solves the phase issues problem for good. Hit the low ends, let the rest pass through, and smile... ...oops, the left arm started to talk at the end part of the video... But talking seriously, great video, great tips. You got it!
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 I appreciate you for tuning in! And yeah I like expressing myself with the hand gestures I think it helps get the point across subconsciously much more lol. But yeah I’m aware of duck and I use it too I believe it’s better than this method and quicker but I didn’t mention it only because the video was about Jaycen Joshua’s technique not my own which I was alluding to to one point in the video. But again thank you for watching!
The soothe is too much, the clip gain automation isn’t. Plus with trackspacer you gotta make sure you really time the attack and release right in order to get a proper effect to control your peaks because if you want a loud mix that’s everything. It’s not too much if you want a professional mix and learn how to do it efficiently
Kickstart or Devious Machines Duck. Highly customizable waveform shaping for sidechain transparency. Done. The first part of this video is way too much boring work, unless you like torturing yourself just spend some money for the plugin 😂
That does SSSSOMETHING, but I’d say it’s just clip automating. Now, Shaperbox? You can use a wave shaper module sidechained to the kick to “clip gain” (use lookahead), AND use sidechain compression in shaperbox (an extremely underrated comp) after that. What’s more, your clip gain on shaperbox? It’s frequency dependent. You can do multiband “clip gain”. And you can also sidechain the same way for saturation too. All in Shaperbox. Waveshaper is only clip gaining, it’s not also sidechain compressing, which gives you that groove and glue.
You doing the most.. All you gotta do is Sidechain the kick & 808. Using soothe 2 is the easiest cuz you can dip the frequencies where your kick lives in your low end without dipping the whole low end.
@@Skyraemusic your understanding is very surface level, not that that’s wrong or anything but go ahead and do that if it’s easier for you…
When you duck only low end frequencies from a sound without ducking the entire sound itself, you introduce more phase issues to whatever sound's low end frequencies are being ducked because...
In order to duck ONLY frequencies in the low end region, the phase has to be shifted at that given crossing point.
Which is why frequency focused ducking on a specific region isn’t really the move.
And did you not watch the part where I showed how the attack & release time is very limited with soothe?
There’s literally a whole section explaining where soothe is not the move, & how THAT’s doing too much and is redundant…
Controlling the phase of your low end is VERY crucial which is why the first method is better than any side chain compression because unless you’re using an oscilloscope to dial in your side chain compression settings,
You’re not going to accurately be able to control the peaks with simple compression settings via sidechain such as attack & release time, threshold, & ratio of the compression down to the very last cycle of the waveform 99% of the time,
Because there's too many variables you have to get right making the first method in this video 1000x better than traditional sidechain compression
WHICH is the main question/comment I received for this video
"Can't you just use sidechain compression bro? You're literally overcomplicating it when sidechain compression does the same thing"
Yes technically is does, but very poorly and limited at that for reasons I already provided.
(i.e not being able to control whatever's being sidechain compressed down to the very last cycle to fully maximize the waveforms peak performance)
But again,
Go ahead and be my guest and do that if you want the two samples to add up or cancel out in some weird unfavorable way which again could affect the overall impact of your low end...
Anyways do whatever you think is easiest for you, but the videos right here explaining everything.
If it’s too much and you don’t want to do it this way that's fine,
But I’m not gonna explain again why soothe or basic/traditional sidechain compression isn't the best when it’s literally right there in the video 😅
@@goobstersroom homie really didnt watch the video lol
@@RP14_Music foreal
Nah. Common mistake. You just randomly sidechain COMPRESS? You’re forcing the compressor algorithm to do something it isn’t primarily designed for: clip gain. JUST sc compressing is an intermediate level trick. What this whole video is showing you is how NOT to make the compressor struggle. If you just sidechain compress to do this, you’re going to increase some of the inherent distortion that comes with, and it’s not going to be fast enough to grab that bass and duck it.
Add clip gain FIRST? Your compressor will do a better job sidechaining and will give you an overall better result.
But I do agree to clip gain each wave is tedious and unnecessary because you can side chain that as well with Shaperbox, which ALSO allows you to sc compress. All one plugin. Excellent utility to just slap on your template and you have MUUUUUUCH better control over that automation curve to lo key trace the shape of the incoming signal (kick) AND you can make it so it only clip gains the frequency range you want in the low end. But I still use both clip gain and sc compression as is done here, just with BOTH triggered by sidechaining.
You said in order to duck just the low frequency- but that’s literally the second half of the video. You ducked only the lows. 🤷🏽♂️
You can use the soothe sidechain and the clip gain together but the trick is to take the kick sc and slide it back a few sample 2-10 so that soothe is operating on a psuedo look ahead so that your pump lines up
I see that makes a little more sense I still haven’t tried that out which I’ll have to test but the way Jaycen mentioned it in the mix with the masters video he didn’t mention that at all unless I missed it,
Plus he also mentioned that if you want more or less ducking you just adjust the depth but I don’t see much use of that because if it’s not ducking completely it’ll still have the ability to phase out or introduce constructive interference where the peaks start to shoot up again which is counter intuitive to the first clip gain automation technique
And the thing is if you use side chains that have a cross over point it’ll still effect the sub in some way shape or form where the kick and sub will be out of phase which you can’t always control if the sub is playing different notes but for the downbeat or most impactful sections of your mix it is much quicker and easier to only use the clip gain automation really and if you get the envelope precise in that way you wouldn’t need the soothe, it’s a bit overkill from what I’ve tested so far
I just gotta try out the look ahead you mentioned and report back to what I might discover doing that and if it’s even worth it or not but those are the little caveats I’ve discovered…
@@goobstersroom yeah you’re right about overkill he only does the soothe thing if it’s 3 elements like you said
@@goobstersroom so on mix with the masters it’s part 3 of advanced mix techniques where he talks about the 2 samples ahead back then he was using c6 though I just personally carried that over into the soothe but I don’t have an oscilloscope plugin to tell visually but his main thing with it is instead of using a send or an aux it’s duplicating the track with all its processing on or I guess just commit it now there’s no time discrepancies between the trigger and the kick you hear then you introduce the sample delay
thx!
@@goobstersroom Did you try this? What third party Oscilloscope would you recommend for Logic users?
In EDM we used this trick for 15 years..tip nr 1
literally especially in techno we use this all the time .
I achieve the soothe technique easier with dynamic side chain EQ in Pro Q3. Great nerdy mixing video! Keep them coming
I rarely watch videos related to mixing cause im a bit lazy sometimes... But I have to admit it, I watched most of yours cause you have the way of saying things, you get to the point and also you show that you know your stuff. nice one
That means a lot! Thank you for watching!!
@@peacekeeper3743 yeah they are good videos for sure 💯
Been doing music stuff basically all my life and somehow this is the first time I’ve ever seen that psyscope thing and it looks awesome haha crazy how there is still software that slips thru the radar.
I’m midway through this video as I type this comment. I do something similar, but this really drove this concept home for me and encouraged me to be more meticulously and methodical when mixing kick & 808
also helps to put a low shelf on the kick to clean the bleeding before you use soothe. It'll avoid Soothe ducking any frequency below 50hz
On the MPC you turn the attack knob. Ducker is made for this.
It's rare to see such a good video. You are highlighting everything we need, explaining every important things, waw bravo
Appreciate you thank you! 🙏
Great tips, thanks a lot!
For Soothe SC, you don't need to duplicate the tracks. You can send them to the sidechain using sends, which keeps your track list tidier and accounts for all the plugins on the channels without duplicating them, thus reducing CPU load.
Glad you pointed out the delay of soothe on the sub-ducker with the kick sc, I've always felt like it's pumping a bit but have never checked on a waveform analyzer. Great stuff, keep doing your thing!
Yeah you could do that but the reason Jaycen does it like that in this way is to supposedly be able to move the waveform left or right to compensate for the pumping & to reset the signal of the clip gain automation on the beginning of the 808 transient to trigger the soothe properly.
But still if you even try that then the release isn’t fast enough which is why just the soothe technique is still iffhy to me and is something I would only use for a last resort with multiple bass instruments firing off at the same time.
But thank you for watching!
@@goobstersroom Great insight, I didn't even know he's using it as delay compensation. Thanks!
@@andiherzog I gotta thank the comments for that one cuz even myself I wasn’t too aware until they pointed it out haha 🔥 but there’s always something new to learn everyday!
How is ducking the bass to open the throughput for the kick, not exactly what’s happening when you sidechain? Sidechaining in lieu would consume less ram.
Correct.
Its frequency specific vs broadband
@@KeenanCrow side-chain can do frequency specific, broadband and all in between
@@fritzhieke7209 you’d need a multiband compressor to do a frequency specific sidechain, and you’d need to know exactly what frequency you are ducking ahead of time. Soothe takes that guess work out and speeds up the process.
Great demo of how to deal with these issues - very clear explanation. Thanks!
I’m glad you enjoyed the video and that was clear! That’s what I was going for so thank you for watching 🔥🙏
I like Duck by DM. I'm good at ducking a pure sub bass but trying to perfect a more complex, full spectrum bass without it sounding too sterile. I'm experimenting with running two instances of Duck. One a short full spectrum volume shape- say 40 ms and another band split instance longer throughout the length of the kick. Ducks 2-band crossover has individual mix knobs so I set the low to 100% and hi to taste. The result is that all of my bass tracks frequencies drop out on the attack of the hit, and my basses mids fading in faster than it's lows. This of course comes at the cost of having a band-split in the mix. The other option would be designing the sub seperate from the midbass and setting individual full spectrum volume ducking on each track.
Another tip that I discovered is to use a room simulation like Waves CLA Nx. I mix in good headphones but it's hard to really hear the perfect curve when sub wobble goes away and the two sounds mesh together. Baphometrix talked about this in a video called controlling the low end, where you othereise need farfields or a seat kicker to feel what the sub bass is doing. After the holidays I'm taking my current project to a local studio to make further adjustments where I can use their room.
Great job good explanation, I think learning from those who have more experience is the way to growth.
That's the way to do it!
Why not use side chain compression to duc the 808 by using the dry kick as a trigger?
He explained one weakness with attack and release curves...
I'm an intermediate but this is where I'm currently at:
One reason for choosing manual volume shaping in that scenario is the precision of control. For a kick and sub, I want minimal sub-frequency phasing which creates gain "wobbles", even brief ones. This brief flutter is only exacerbated when pushed into the master limiter. May sound okay on earbuds but ass on a large system. This also applies to kick and a broader frequency synth bass but the solution becomes more tricky without sounding sterile. One considerstion is the destructive nature of anything multiband. There's also something about non-linear processes and the distortion inherent to compressors but I'm not on that level yet. I once heard that loud genres of EDM and etc. come down to the millisecond and am quickly learning it to be true. These guys are going for headroom to push mixes into the limiter so they hit in the club without sounding flabby or muddy or even sterile.
@JiandiP I don’t get these side effects. I USE A QUICK ATTACK AND RELEASE and only duck 1-2 db to let the kick punch through
Really? You won't have a problem with getting loud and clean in mastering if your low end not phasing then. If you ever want to double check, try psyscope. They have a indefinite trial version but it times out after 10 minutes until you restart your DAW. Put one psycscope on the end of your kick inserts and another on the end of your bass inserts. Select layered view. If you see the color of the bass layer in the kick transient, it's phasing unless the waves naturally line up which I my expereince is rare - I don't tune my kicks to the root note and my bass notes vary.
^i think psyscope is window only though
Great video!!!
Brother your vudeoo gave me so much understand for this topic.. u made it so good thank u very much for real!!!!
I'm glad you were able to learn from it thank you for watching!!
pro tools make things so complicated
you dont gotta do any of this... this is just advanced level engineering, pro tools is not that complicated if you choose not to try any of this
Yo can make this on any daw not only on Protools I make this on studio one
Referring to technique #1, can’t you just use sidechain compression on the bass track ducking the kick instead of doing manual clip gain automation?
Awesome video btw, thanks for sharing!
In my mind I don't see why you couldn't, sidechain compression is a standard technique. Although I would assume that by using clip gain instead, you could match the duration of the kick to an exact measurement whereas a compressor might have a little leeway due to attack/release time restrictions; not to mention the cpu load a compressor could contribute to when the lookahead function is engaged. A compressor could also impart some unwanted harmonics to the affected track depending on the type used.
Yes you can! I find using manual clip gain automation gives you more control though. For me personally it's easier to draw the envelope rather than tweaking the sidechain settings.
@@swerve_madeit Exactly this
When you use the clip gain automation it's much easier to see the exact envelope you need to be ducked from the kick vs using a sidechain compressor. There is another plugin that does this really well that's an alternative but I'm going to go more in depth with that on a later video 🤫
@@goobstersroom thank you! I get it now.
Really great video bro!!
@@musicbypenn thank you for watching!!
Great vid appreciate you for this.
Thank you for watching!
Love your channel bro!!
@@ProducedByGrant thank you very much for watching! 🙏
18:40 Now, it may be because these are solo’d kick/808/SynBass? But what I’m hearing in the cans (Sony WH-1000XM5’s, basically prosumer and not my pro mixing Senns so not “ideal”, but still telling nonetheless)
What I’m hearing is the saturation on the kick attack and 808 body from the boom buss conflicting with the synthtacularity (😂) of rhe SynBass. It may behoove a sound nerd such as we are to analyze with an oscilloscope where that saturated upper freq is on the boom buss is, and add another node in Soothe (which in fairness I’ve never used, but I do see other dots there? I’m guessing you can activate one of those?) to duck the synth as well, but just a smidge 🤏 and with a much quicker release.
I say a smidge because in the higher frequencies, a little goes a longer way than the lows. (Think Nyquist). So if you cutting the lows with a hpf as is here, that’s knocking out ALL the lows via sidechain. Okay. A bit extreme, but there are use cases. In the higher sizzle area (where you may create some phase issues unaccounted for via that one HPF node, use a band curve with whatever Q value makes it least noticeable to the listener, and adjust the attack to whatever is needed to cancel the problem, and use a faster than you’d expect release.
Faster release = less noticeable Dibia$e/STLNDRM-esque slump beat pumping. The key of all this is to make it sound the same, but tighter (without phase cancellation) as without anything. This is all done for an audience of ☝🏾 one: your mastering dynamics. Like you said, it makes it so you don’t need a bunch of comps in a clearly overdone mastering chain (glares at himself, who uses EVERY comp in Slate Digital, Izotope AND Fg-X to master because I can and this ain’t my real job 😂). Less of these low freq transient buildups = less need to grab a clipper on your buss or master, and less noticeable distortion if you do. It allows the master bus dynamics processing to work on tone and LUFS, not as an eraser. It cannot do both.
So louder but with preserved overall dynamics.
Like Jayson said: he already 2db ahead of you just by doing the first thing of drawing in volume automation. It’s not for YOU to hear or notice, it’s for the computer to appreciate during your stereo mix.
Great video, full of gems. I will be adding these techniques to my toolkit. Thanks!
@@jayemakebeats I’m glad you were able to learn from the video!! Thank you for watching 🙏
This was why Poise was so intuïtive, like working with an mc, but without the workaround and faster results. Ideal for assembling sampled kicks with 808 etc 👊🏼
U explained it awesome. Keep it up!
Thank you for tuning in! Got a few more videos like this coming real soon!
Great content
🤔 Interesting... I tend to try to account for a lot of this when I'm producing the track. Obviously if a mix engineer doesn't have access to the original track files, he has to with with what he is given.
All that said, i think upcoming or even seasoned producers should take heed to what's being shared in this video. One thing I've learned over the years is 75% of the way your mix sounds is dictated but how it was tracked/recorded... (In other words, the production of it).
If the instruments were already well-placed, you may not have to really use all of these tricks and tips on a mix. 💯💯👍🏿
This is great intel and bringing a bit more knowledge and detail to what's really happening with the phase. Really like the visual feed back the psyscope pro brings to the table. . Also wasn't using soothe to do side chaining but will def being messing with it now. Neutron's masking feature is almost a combination of all these techniques but it can be even better. I asked a plugin developer (almost 15+ years ago) to make a Kik-n-Bass plugin that would do the ducking, show the phase relationship and allow you do adjust the phase for the perfect marriage. They said "amazing idea, too complicated". There is still even more to consider, will watch to see how you fixed the phase.
@@thespinjunkies2437 appreciate you for watching! And there is a plugin that’s very similar it’s duck by devious machines but I gotta make the video for that one next 😏
@@goobstersroom Neutron 5's AI phase optimizer with sidekick is probably near an unbeatable combo. Just upgraded and have been testing.
This is extremely useful information. Thanks a lot for this content.
@@Juanma23b im glad you were able to learn from this video!! 🔥
Good video. "Trough" is the low point in a wave. 😏
@@ataylortca facts
So if I'm lucky enough to be working with the MIDI still, would there be anything wrong with just ducking the beginning part of the 808 sample if you know it's going to hit with drums?
@@Daymon_Music to me I think that’s two different buckets, if you still have the midi then it sounds like you’re still producing which sure you could get away with some slight mixing in the production stage or go as in depth as you want it’s entirely up to you.
But for a personal preference I like to split producing, mixing, and mastering into their own sorts of things so that way each part of the song gets its own full focus.
If you’re still producing and have the luxury of the midi and you still want to try this method what I would do is consolidate the 808 or low end as an audio track to apply the processing that way and have the midi muted in the background somewhere where you could pull it back if needed if you wanted to make any changes in the pattern or notes for whatever reason.
But this is why I personally would split the two because if you don’t give yourself any creative constraints when you’re making music you realistically could be going back and forth tweaking stuff forever.
Which is why again I say as a personal workflow thing I would split the different parts of the music creation process but you can try what I mentioned with the consolidation and come up with your own workflow that best suits you!
Hope that helps!
@@goobstersroom Thanks! That actually helps a lot, do you have any recommendations for oscilloscopes for logic pro?
Thanks for this breakdown man - I love these tricks, the 1st one clears up everything so easily. Question about the Soothe trick: he describes this process in another video that someone reposted from a live stream, "how Jaycen joshua mixes bass" and he mentions in at about 3 minutes. The only difference is that it looks like he puts the Soothe on his Boom bus and not the bass bus (you also can see a grainy close up of the soothe settings). Ducking the bass with SC makes a lot of sense but have you experimented with ducking the Boom? Also did you grab this info from this Mix With the Masters class? I've been thinking about checking it out. Thanks so much for this explanation!
great video man very well spoken
@@dudedudedude36 thank you for watching! 🙏
Great video. Thank you
10:18, did you ever get around to doing that video?
Not yet but we'll get there tho!
This video is awesome. Thank you! Quick question, would automating the volume instead of the gain have the same results?
Yes it would you just need to understand that if you do the clip gain you're automating before it hits the plugins on the track which is something you may desire
or if you do it with the volume automation you're going to be automating all your processing after the fader which is also something you may desire as well.
Just do it in whatever order you feel would get you the best results for your music!
5:34 why wouldn’t you just do a side chain filter ?? Seems like a lot of work .
I love that all the juicy knowledge I paid for years back is now coming out for free. So sick
@@Trentcast that’s the internet! But I’m glad you enjoyed the breakdown and hopefully it refreshed your memory!
well you had a time advantage lol, thats something
Can you use this technique with just kick and bass or is this mainly for kick and 808 ?
@@BrashawnATA kick and bass works too
For the first technique, just use a lfo tool triggered by the kick and adjust it................ it take 20 seconds and it's exactly the same result, you can even be more accurate with a scope
Yes, at 10:13 I alluded to this I just haven't made the video explaining that technique yet. This video was breaking down specifically how Jaycen Joshua does it but obviously there's a better more efficient and accurate way of pulling this off (that I prefer). But that just shows how educated you are on the subject which is a good thing! You're ahead of most people
Ever since Ableton 12.0, for some reason I will have had my play marker at the start and then randomly I’ll hit play after doing something and it’ll start playing from the end of the clip/looped section in the arrangement view. Is this a bug does anyone know?
My Question is why use a ghostcopy for the sidechain input and not the maybe processed sound directly?
By processed sound directly are you referring to a send from one of the direct bus tracks?
brilliant video!
@@mixedbypricha7327 thank you for watching!
You can do the #1 technique much easier and faster with the Devious Machines Duck plugin.
@@SpacedOutDoonie I know. I agree
What I typically do because it’s the fastest is to use EQ to boost the kick around 60-75ish depending on the kick then EQ the 808 in the same area to carve out space. To take it up a notch can you use dynamic eq only on the 808 itself. I honestly feel like this is nearly effective if not equally as effective. I saw another Grammy mixer use this technique and for my workflow I feel like this is enough. Do it right to prevent pumping or phasing but it’s so easy and fast to do. I’ll just have both eq playing at the same time and make my marks on the eq band. In an old studio session JJ also did this, but I can’t find that video anywhere anymore. He had some full studio sessions on RUclips but I think he was droppin too much sauce and had them deleted. What are your thoughts on this technique bro?
Curious what you think the difference is between automating with clip-gain, versus automating a trim tool on bass at the end of the chain. I got these tips second hand, so had been doing it that way and seems to work.
Lots of details in your vid I hadn't heard before with his techniques. Adding slope on the attack side is killer. Instant subscribe for me.
Where is the link to give you some work? I am interested in you working on my projects?
You could fill out the link here and we can go from there!
goobstersroom.com/nextsteps/
great Video Mane🔥
@@mafmane thank you for watching!
Thank you this video! Makes so much sense. I have not been able to get great results with Kickstart 2, Soothe2 with what I just saw here. It makes so much sense now. I have two questions for you. 1) I'm a Logic user. Would this work the same way if I were to chop the 808 samples and draw the fade on each sample that would match the envelope of the kick? Technically it makes sense to me that it would work the same way as in Pro Tools. 2) Would you use this technique on the Bass Guitar and a Kick Sample? Thank you :)
Are you sure that the Trim Tool mentioned in the video "Pensados" is about Gain and not Volume?
@@fabio_coc_2409 yes 100% that’s why I bring up the mix with the masters video as well as a reference because that’s what he’s talking about
Thank you for this video!
I'm glad you enjoyed it!
so it is pushing me to think about when the musicians and producers are making music will be better avoiding that first bass impact to let the kick be alone right? but as i can see the signal there are no much attack in that bass line so what happen if the bass is really punchy in the first transient and you don't want to loose the bass attack even the kick?
The key here if you want a loud mix is understanding how your sounds sum and work together.
I only went into kick and bass for this example but if you really look into it if a hi hat hits the same time as a snare they sum and the peak increases. Same thing goes for every other instrument that plays at the same time and you gotta be able to know how to side chain properly to get everything sounding tight without any pumping but again this is all to taste because it could get very technical but is why it is also a very advanced skill set to have.
You mentioned if the bass doesn’t have a heavy transient but the kick does, or the example of the kick and bass both have heavy transients and you want that impact what then?
We’ll you either pick one or the other, or if you like how both sound then to maintain the peak I would just clip the signal but with the two instruments summing together the peak is going to be super high so it’ll hit the clipper hard and you’ll most likely hear very audible distortion.
That is why before you even mix your sound selection is absolutely crucial, you gotta make sure the sounds you pick work well together but again this is all to taste.
It’s just for loudness mainly cuz if somebody wished go ahead and layer 10 kicks with 1 808 or whatever example you want.
You just need to understand what that is doing under the hood which is increasing your peak, which will trigger your limiter much easier, which will not let you push it as hard without hearing audible ducking and unintentional clipping giving you flat cheese grated mix, making the overall quality and loudness very very low.
So it’s all about intent and truly understanding what each sound is doing to your mix under the hood to get to where you want to be.
Not every song has to be loud nor should it be but just all things to consider and is the tip of the iceberg when it comes to mixing.
Hope that helps lmk if you have any other questions
Ever consider Shaperbox to do exactly this? One fell swoop.
@@QueMusiQ duck by devious machines >
This is awesome bro! You broke this down so well. Have you tried the plugin called Duck? It does the same trick but its so much easier to dial in how much 808 you take out volume wise and how long you want your duck to last. You can also select a frequency range to duck. It's so versatile. I highly recommend it, especially to Cubase users, as Soothe cannot be sidechained in Cubase. Peace
@@deandouglas839 yup i do duck too! I just didnt show it since jaycen joshua doesnt show it in his video mwtm video
So, when you duplicate those side chain key inputs, is the volume of the 808 & kick not rising as well?
That’s the only thing that kinda confused me?
@@darneljoseph388 no because of the way that everything is routed,
The duplicate tracks are routed out to the sidechain and nothing else so if you were to solo them you would literally hear nothing.
They’re just being used to trigger the sidechain only so the plugin knows when to duck the signal. Hope that makes sense
After watching this vid (good stuff!) I looked into the Psyscope Pro plugin but the website doesnt mention AAX support... am I misssing something?
It's a windows only plugin. I use blue cat to open the plugin as a vst in pro tools
@@goobstersroom Did a little research & figured that what you were doing. Thanks for responding. Subbed!
@@tpn4781 Thank you for tuning in! Gonna keep this ball rolling 🔥
Details! Solid video
Appreciate you thank you for tapping in! 🙏
Something to note: If you're using this technique make sure your kick selection has enough bottom end. If said producer eq's out the bottom of the kick to blend with the the 808 it won't sound as good. It'll sound even better if you tune the kick to the key of the song #producerproblems
is psycope something you use while mixing or do you go by ear?
I use both, ears always first then I load up psyscope to double check things or to help me gain match better
@@goobstersroom thanks so much, learned a lot already. Subbing and hyped for the next video! 🤝
@@breezyoakk Dropping another one real soon thank you for subscribing!
how do you get psyscope in protools
@@galliondigital4296 it’s windows only but if you download the vst then use bluecat patchwork to open up the vst in pro tools
Srry for my ignorance but Isn't the first part the same as sidechain compression?
@@orimizrahi1100 no it’s a good question actually and I get it a lot.
But to be very clear,
The main difference between the two and the reason why this is MUCH better than a sidechain is that you can manually match the envelope of the kick duration to duck down whenever the 808 hits with a very unique envelope that compression simply can not do.
On a compressor you have your attack and release but to get it perfectly on the nail would be much longer and take a lot more fiddling and tweaking than if you were to manually draw the automation in.
And if you see when I pull up the oscilloscope, it’s ducking the perfect amount for the duration length of the kick.
If you use a compressor for sidechain, the attack might be off, or the release might be too long where you hear pumping, or vice versa where the release is too short and the phase of the kick and 808 are interfering in some nasty way that completely takes away from the effect which could still drive your peak way up or null the two where you’re getting phase cancellation and end up having a weak sounding bass.
Does that make sense?
@@goobstersroom makes a ton of sense, you're a king bro . I appreciate that 🙏🙏🙏
@@orimizrahi1100 Of course anytime!
great video man. You mind sharing your windows PC specs?
For my desktop I have
CPU: Amd Ryzen 5950x
GPU: AMD Radeon 6700xt
RAM: 64gb
SSD: 12 tb
But to edit all of these videos I have a mobile setup I take with me everywhere to do all of my editing for this channel and it’s a laptop from a company called Kreative Devices and it’s more affordable than my desktop and it performs just as great and I have a full video on it right here! Lmk if that helps 🔥
Here’s the link
ruclips.net/video/KxrHMgKnLjA/видео.htmlsi=8TSSiOZg-dYe8MN6
Just subbed man. Took a look at your channel and you have great information here. I’m a producer who mixes (pretty effectively) as I go, but looking to get into serious mixing to generate some income on the side. I couldn’t help pondering the idea about sidechaining gain. Someone needs to make a plugin for that. Essentially it would be like clip automation but at least the plugin can do it for you, then give the plugin some ways to control the sidechain volume to prevent how much, trimming, roll off etc. if you make the plugin remember it was my idea lol. I’ll take 2%
@@RealNuruMusic I appreciate you bro and that plugin already exists and it’s very affordable!! Check out Duck by devious machines and that’ll do the trick!
It’s a hidden weapon that I didn’t get much into this video but way more efficient 😉
Thanks for the knowledge on that...
Thank you for watching!
1:24 “clip” automation. “CLIPPING” automation sound like you automate a clipper plug in.
It looks like normal gain automation in cubase or isn’t it … is there a difference in pro tools i don‘t get or just a different wording?
Could be the same thing but the clip gain automation in pro tools is pre fader which is what we want in this case. If the cubase gain automation is pre fader then you should be good!
Why wouldn't you just use a transient shaper and side chaining? Genuinely asking.
See my reply under the pinned comment
I use duck for the first technique I just use the kick to trigger and u can choose how u want the envelope to react
@@cookupcentral that’s exactly the better way to do it that i was alluding too you’re just ahead of the curve 😏🤫
Great video thanks for sharing it. For my ears, the music/mix examples could come up in the mix compared to your voice which seemed a lot louder in the video.
I agree that was something I had caught after I uploaded the video but I got it fixed for sure now tho! Thank you for watching!
Where's the next video talking about fixing the last part of the phase issues even after clip gain automation
@@IMPSTR-f6r still doesn’t exist yet but I could probably make something soon
If you offset the 808 by a few hairs so it doesn't hit at the same time as the kick, that helps too. You're welcome :)
@@_20nine_ nah because the phase of the two instruments will still sum together or cancel out eventually depending on the sample and how it long it plays out for which is why this is important for kick and bass to get right.
But if you’re doing something like a hihat and a clap or snare a nudge there would be perfectly fine since they’re much tighter in wavelength in those higher frequencies
@@goobstersroom Are you calling Greg Wells a liar?
@@_20nine_ No. I'm saying that if you want to be more precise, there's other steps you have to take... cuz I nudge things all the time in my mixes too, but you don't just do only that and call it a day
@@goobstersroom and if you read my original statement, I said “that helps too”. Not end all be all.
why not use duck budy or lfo tool or side chain gate? u could also duplicate the kick and make a ghost kick track, scoot it back a few ms or less so there wont be the delay of the attack time for the compressor to kick in. you can see jayson has the “attack” down ramp happen slightly before the kick hits. i think that would acheive the same effect.
One other thing to consider is, he’s automating the CLIP gain, so this is prior to any other processing. Most people put sidechain compression and other ducking tools at the end of their chain, but here he is adjusting a clip gain, so he’s actually ducking it first before it goes into his mix processing Which is interesting to me and probably an important distinction.
@@jasonwolchuk787 ive explained this countless times in the comments and you could read more about it if you want a deeper elaboration. But yes of course you could use duck i know this, im just explaining what he does.
The only thing I missed was moving the ghost kick track back but other people again have noted that soothe still doesnt work good like that.
And i did mention that hes doing clip gain in the video
i see good explanations i subscribe
Thank you for watching!
Is that a Tubesessor back there?
@@harpoleon6806 yeah that’s it
@goobstersroom how do u like it and was it meant to sub for a cl1b?
@@harpoleon6806 yeah it was, to me the tubesessor has more of a tone and character compared to a cl1b which some may or may not like.
What I mean by that is that you can hear the compression happening more audibly if you slam it compared to a cl1b where it sounds super transparent and is harder to make sound bad.
With that being said I would probably just buy a used one in good condition if you're looking at this if you can't get an actual Cl1b, but I still like it.
Another underrated compressor that I think would probably be another good versatile option that's a bit more affordable but sounds just as fire is the WesAudio NG 76.
A buddy of mine has that one and it's super fire so I would recommend either that or to cop the Tubesessor used cuz it's still pretty pricey for a TubeTech clone.
His god particle plugin got me to -6.4 LUFs in my bedroom studio with no distortion….its the best level I ever achieved by a mile….prior to that I think I hit -11.
why not use pro mb for this ?
@@pepthelad read explanation under pinned comment
cheers
thanks for such a great video! just one suggestion as someone watching on my studio setup on my monitors - it would be great if you could set the volume of your speech between the videos a little low or increase the volume of your protools recorded audio and jaycens interviews since to hear the low end i have to crank up the volume and then suddenly when the video swithces to your commentary on the topic its too loud! again thanks for the informative videos!
I appreciate you for tuning in! And I agree with you I caught that after I uploaded the video but that'll for sure be fixed in the future!
I think adjusting the attack on the 808 fairly small will work. Hey fl studio users. adsr
Nah man that has to be too advanced
This won’t work if your 808s are already printed as Audio stem
But would work if your programming it in FL
I mean the soothe sidechain is a cool trick but at that point you could accomplish the same thing with a hi pass filter up to 100 hz.
Yeah i'm not a fan of it either i think it's very OD
This is a video I gotta watch a few times 😂
Haha for sure! It gets pretty in depth but if you follow along with your own material and practice that's the best way it's gonna stick and start to make more sense but you'll get it! 🔥
Wow.. The hate in "comments" here is special.. Its spicy, yet flavorful, and has all the right portions. A little "You know nothing" mixed with a pinch of Classism. Great job guys. Great job indeed. LOL. Listen bro.. use the haters as fuel. LOL Why is is the Inner-Webs like this?
Rather I agree or not I'm liking the video. People doing a lot in here.. #fightTheHate. lol
@@BulAGOAT that’s just the reality of the engineering community, everyone thinks they’re right which if they already know what’s good yes I agree why the hate 😂. But coming from where I originally posted more videos that received more hate (instagram) I just got used to it, don’t take it serious, and love to troll back 🤣. Cuz it’s not that serious to me at least to be all flustered over it.
Appreciate you for showing love tho thank you for your comment and thank you for watching 🙌
This is way easier in studio one with stock plugins
nice
Thank you for watching 🔥
Why "Goobster" though?
@@jonassteinberg3779 nickname I’ve had for a long time since before music when I used to skate. It came from an instagram handle but it stuck and everyone called me goobster.
Since people around me were already used to that I just used it for my music career and made it “Goobster’s Room” cuz this is my room where I make music basically
@goobstersroom okay...so you used to skate...cool. but why goobster? I mean what's the literal origin?
@@jonassteinberg3779 me pulling the name out of my a$$ when I was thinking of an instagram handle. Literally no deep thought into it or anything lol. And when I made that handle in high school again people just called me that when I would skate and the legacy continues lmao
@@goobstersroom satisfied!
This is how you can mix the lowend for this example or similiar stuff Tutorial Video 😅
Surely you don't expect one video to solve all of your mixing problems... Mixing goes way more in depth than that but at least now you know what to do if you ever come across that situation
Couldn’t you just mult the output of the original tracks for the soothe sidechain instead of duplicating?
And couldn’t you also use FF Pro MB if you don’t have Soothe?
@@josiahscottquinnI think the point of the video is to take what he did and use your own plugins to do so
@@josiahscottquinn Okay so from others they say that jaycen joshua duplicates the tracks so that way he can move the sample back so that way the release of the soothe is still timed properly so that it doesn't create that pumping effect, but people also mentioned that even the attack of the soothe isnt fast enough when they do that which still lets the transient of the kick or whatever other sample you're using which is why using soothe still has its disadvantages.
And if you use Pro MB, even if you set the ratio to the hishest setting, knee to the highest setting and range to duck out the most, it still let's signal through which defeats the purpose of even trying to get anything useable out of the pro MB
All in all, that's why when you use frequency based sidechains when trying to process kick and 808s it's not even really practical which is why I introduced the caveat section for technique 2 in this video & is why for best results I recommend to just use only the clip gain automation,
There are other plugins that have similar effects but back to the frequency based sidechain, it'll still introduce phase which will go back to increasing the peak volume when the kick and 808 sample hit which AGAIN circles back to just only ducking the 808 when the kick hits using the clip gain automation or using other ducking plugins that are NOT frequency based are the most practical
After all this you may be asking then why even include that in the video?
Well... because that is what Jaycen Joshua does and that's what the video is about.
But I'm going to try other plugins that people are using to do similar processing and I'll make another video to share my discoveries.
But moral of the story is that whenever you see mixing tips & tricks online, always test them out yourself to see how you could use the techniques to see if they work best for you and your mixes.
This was a LONG answer but it is very intricate and detailed so I hope that answered your questions!!
But stick around and if you want to learn more about mixing then consider subscribing so we could both be on the journey to new mixing discoveries.
Again super dense answer but I hope it answered your question! Feel free to write back if you have any other mixing questions regarding this topic!
And thank you for tapping in!
🙏
@@Sniper_T_2x Use your own plugins and just test every mixing technique out for yourself to see if it's practical for what you're trying to achieve to implement into your workflow. But thank you for tapping in!!
@@goobstersroomdevious machines infiltrator is another plugin you can try out for achieving similar results
Man, I thank you for this video!
But, not as a critique, but to make you laugh, you're making me believe that if someone ties your right arm you'll become a mute guy.
Talking about ducking the subs, I prefer to use DUCK.
A bit more aggressive than using a specific freq range (DUCK can limit the freq range, too) but that solves the phase issues problem for good. Hit the low ends, let the rest pass through, and smile...
...oops, the left arm started to talk at the end part of the video...
But talking seriously, great video, great tips. You got it!
@@marceloribeirosimoes8959 I appreciate you for tuning in! And yeah I like expressing myself with the hand gestures I think it helps get the point across subconsciously much more lol.
But yeah I’m aware of duck and I use it too I believe it’s better than this method and quicker but I didn’t mention it only because the video was about Jaycen Joshua’s technique not my own which I was alluding to to one point in the video. But again thank you for watching!
Isn’t this literally side chain ProMB / Pro C?
@@connormayeros3437 nope, better. Read under pinned comment for full explanation
YUP!
I use hardware compressors like my LA610 and eqs on my Api to side chain kick and bass. much more fun and sounds way more natural in electronic music.
Doing to much , trackspacer
The soothe is too much, the clip gain automation isn’t. Plus with trackspacer you gotta make sure you really time the attack and release right in order to get a proper effect to control your peaks because if you want a loud mix that’s everything. It’s not too much if you want a professional mix and learn how to do it efficiently
Fuser
Kickstart or Devious Machines Duck. Highly customizable waveform shaping for sidechain transparency. Done. The first part of this video is way too much boring work, unless you like torturing yourself just spend some money for the plugin 😂
That does SSSSOMETHING, but I’d say it’s just clip automating. Now, Shaperbox? You can use a wave shaper module sidechained to the kick to “clip gain” (use lookahead), AND use sidechain compression in shaperbox (an extremely underrated comp) after that. What’s more, your clip gain on shaperbox? It’s frequency dependent. You can do multiband “clip gain”.
And you can also sidechain the same way for saturation too. All in Shaperbox.
Waveshaper is only clip gaining, it’s not also sidechain compressing, which gives you that groove and glue.
Too much
All this work so instead of side chain compression.
Goombas room
@@joeygproducedit7863 Mario time
Wow another video explain fucking sidechain
@@Honestcosby make a better one you got it
i thought joshua is showing us how
@@stwrecords go watch the mix with the masters video if you wanna see him talk about it. This is a breakdown analysis
Never seen a kick and bass more out of phase than yours though
Where
🎉
DAMN NO PSYSCOPE FOR MAC I KNOW YOURE LAUGHING BRO LMAO
Haha just a little! Nothing against Mac I have one for editing my videos but psyscope on windows is super clutch lol
Oszillos Megascope for mac