Tekken has hundreds upon hundreds of moves across the entire roster, so it makes sense the genuinely best moves are still high in number. Get that coin roll ready lmao
I think the most shocking thing to me is that devil jin is bottom tier in a tekken game. Like this is a historical moment in our generation. This character has been top tier in every tekken game he is been in.
most good dvj players just dont like the fact that he kept getting nerfed for no reason and now hes also just very gimmicky and you have to play him like that instead of having a real game plan he looks so cool but it just doesnt feel great to play which is my main issue even though hes my top 3 fav characters
The reason is because DVJ has been a war criminal since his introduction in T5, even when mishimas got nerfed in to the ground in T6 he was the only one playable (excluding bob), in T7 until season 4 he was a menace and even at the start of T8 he was incredibly strong, but i agree some nerfs were too much in this game.
He knows that, he's doing damage control to take the heat of kaz players by trying to shift it to DVJ players. Never let TMM act like he doesn't do the exact same song and dance when it's time for him to cope over being a 30 year kaz main who is still ass.
...I think Dvj players (me included), don't want to rely on gimmicks. They removed his original fun gameplan and just made him a gimmicky bs character. If you stop using his gimmicks, you're kinda screwed.
When you have to resort to the argument that Devil Jin has a good chance at winning just because he has good gimmicks and cheese that can be abused in a first to 2 then that already tells you what a terrible state the characters is in.
I've said it before, both Devil Jin's and Steve's scare the shit out of me. They have to work harder than most, so they're usually cracked out of their mind at what they do
It’s so interesting when you think about it, because I agree with you but at the highest level Devil Jin and Steve get absolutely obliterated. I think tier lists really start to become relevant at the highest level of Tekken.
@@luischeco3009because Steve main moves tracks the stance with the guard break has a tracking move the shoulder has a tracking move his 3+4 spin can realign and he often steps with u with his 3 or 4
@@dylzpand even at the highest level not so much I mean shadow beat ulsan dragonov the top 1 character in the hands of an obsurdly good player with zafina a bottom tier character..
@chacazulo1987 the thing is with devil jin you have to have perfect movement to maximize him more so than any other mishima because of how stubby and negative most of his moves are, I've been watching mainman for 14 yrs but idc what he says devil jin is by far the hardest mishima in this game. Those two moves he listed has severe counter play. Also since devil jins moves are so slow and stubby, you have to have a perfect KBD to whiff punish properly because he overall has terrible whiff moves.
Yeah I think that matters. It's not the only reason that some dvj players can't rank from fujin because they're bad, but because there's not so much broken or straightforward cheese bullshit that you can throw on your opponent, like many other characters do have. Law, King, Hworang, etc. Any character has a cheap ass strategy that if you don't know how to beat - you will occasionally lose, especially if your cheap ass strategy is way weaker than your opponent's.
I swear maimmanswe was the reason he got nerfed in tekken 7 and he will be the reason why he wont get any buffs, saying u get obliterated online doesn't mean the character is good it means the player is good or trying his best , u know there are some character loyalists who doesn't wanna give up theirs favours only bcause of nerfs but tryin to say he whatever he is good enough triggers me really. Momodog is one of the humble guys out there never complaining about all those nerfs but even he came to a point where he started pointing things out and calling dj ,, useless piece of sh!t,,
I played Devil Jin from day one. He’s weak against genuine Tekken fundamentals 😂😂 he’s not weak in general. In fact he’s a scrub killer, but when you run into somebody who knows when to step and stays patient. You’re suddenly out of most options you usually would have
Yeah all of a sudden in T8 they gut his strong neutral controlling tools like the range of his pokes and took away his old df2/df1,2 etc. He's barely holding his original kit together that he had to rely on up close imo.
This exactly lmao. If im playing against someone scrubby whos playing mashy, spamming, not respecting frame, etc, prepare for them to eat the turn stealing moves like B3, U4, MC1 B4 frame trap easily. Meanwhile if you play against someone who play patiently, throwing those moves would be death sentence
I cant wait to see this video talking bout how low teirs can still compete online turn into twitter nerfing Dvj Demon lance because main man highlighted one of dvj strengths.
@@SolusFather mf said that like heihachi ff2 doesn't have longer range than devil jins chains 🤣 matter of fact juns f2 reaches farther than devil jins chains. Mfs be hating on devil jin for no reason bro. If we whiff chains we eat 💩 all day every day and it's damn seeable.
While I generally agree with the core of the sentiment, the idea that "being bottom tier in this game doesn't matter" is flawed. Look at TMM's video responding to a Nina main's arguments in T7. To quote: "Yeah, every character has cheese, but there are degrees to it." The fact the character isn't frequent in ranked battles doesn't mean he can obliterate any character if you have the execution. When you have two players with comparable skill who know the match-up, that's when you'll see the issues with DJ. He's not unplayable by any means, but saying you're in a good spot while playing him against the majority of the continuously buffed roster is untrue (and I'm not even a DJ main).
You have to understand "DJ being bottom tier doesn't matter" is answer to crying DJ mains. He was top tier since his debut and now devs shaken things up a little bit and suddenly he's not on top anymore and it's almost causing riots.
The main issue I have with dvj is not that he's bad. He's okay the way he is for the most part. I agree with him not having strong fundamentals while having long range shenanigans. And his shenanigans are very risky and mean death on whiff, which happens a lot with him. But that's okay, that's how a character should be balanced. Strengths, but holes as well. And dvj is quite intuitive to punish and counter. It's more that it's infuriating to see that dvj pays a haaaard price for having gimmicks while the top tiers can just braindeadly spam bullshit with very little risk. That's the problem. Alisa and Yoshi gimmicks are 1 million times better but they don't compromise as dvj does. And there are many more examples in the top tiers. I don't want dvj buffs, I just want top tier nerfs. I'm tired of seeing them safely spam such potent bullshit all day long without any consequences.
and just like dvj is not that bad online those are beatable online. It's not gonna be the character to hold you back but it ain't gonna be a walk in the park
counter counterpoint: it doesnt because if you dont know the matchup your gonna get destroyed anyways. im a yoshi main and dj is one of my worst matchups because i barely see the character and i get beat alot by them. drag is one of my best because i actually somewhat know the matchup cause i see him all the time. you can disagree with tmm but dudes been playin this game for 20 years. he understands the average player better than alot of people. in the end tekken is hard and your gonna have to practice alot no matter who you main.
Nope, dvj is just as cheap as the character next to it. The reason someone might be stuck in blue is simple. He simply is not good enough for gold ranks, and not because the character sucks (because it doesn't, especially at those ranks)
his win/loss ratio is a bad argument imo because he's the least played Mishima and the only people who play him atm are the loyal fans who are willing to put in the time to master the character. note that i agree with TMM here that he is still very usable due to the cheese (honestly it's Db 1+2 the rest aren't very good) but he still needs good generic tools to be viable outside of people not knowing the match up
they aint gonna give him good generic tools looking at how they made him. Considering his play style now, he just needs effective gimmicks instead of gimmicks which arent that good. Options to delete gray health, maybe some extra moves in mcr or maybe rework the whole stance.
Even if he the least played Mishima,he still decent on the usage,and besides that even if he is a lot played or not win/lose ratio is in percentage and is true that even brainrot dvj does have a chance by playing this type of oppressive style that wouldn't really work with old dvj from T7 and backwards
Jupp, his usage rate dropped by like 4-6% from lanuch and that is pretty damn huge drop. Meanwhile characters like Kaz and Reina has a huge playerbase so ofc it's gonna be saturated by bad players that gives them terrible winrates.
@@TheBlunkBeanie being serious for a sec, Asuka is great for a newbie to fighting games like myself. She has really easy to execute 1-1-3s that can be mixed up with 1-1-4s that do plenty of damage and can lead to nice power crushes among other really easy stuff that makes you generally think more about the actual game and how to play the matchup, and less about the crazy execution
I agree , Not gettin higher with a bottom Tier character is Just a Lack of Knowledge , i lost 17. Times my tekken King and got down to kishin multiple times now i am tekken emperor and nearly tekken God , he Lacks alot Compared to other Chars in the top , But in the Right Hands you can make every character work in high lvl of Play . i think his Wall Oki is insane and you can keep distance very well with uf2 and ff4 what Haves counterhit Launch properties. besides that tekken helping me alot going Thru a Near Death Situation Last year was horrible for me i still Recover and Hope it get better atm i am kinda Caged at Home with alot of Problems , my Body Working poorly cant work or Live my Life aswell so i want to thank you Main Man your always be one of my Favorite streamers i watched you since beginning of your Journey and i would Love to Match you someday . Thank you for helping me out in that horrible Time your attitude and character Helping me out alot Love you Man 👊🏽
The main reason with him is not just his weakness. He is OK for ft2, when your opponent doesn’t have enough time to decode your pattern of gimmicks. They need to nerf his gimmicks like b3 or ridiculous db1+2, and instead buff his fundamental tools. I understand they tried to give him a chaotic random identity, however spamming gimmicks in a random way doesn’t seem like a deep gameplay.
"because bottom tier doesn't really exist in this game" Last 5 tournaments top 5 Dragunov,Nina,Shaheen,Yoshi and Jin army: *allow us to introduce ourselves*
😂😂 Let's be honest tmmswe. You're totally responsible for this. You've been crying about DJ and Steve in Tekken since Tekken 7 and even in your revisited Tekken 5,6 and tag 2 videos Now you're surprised that these characters are too weak and overnerfed. no you got them nerfed. Steve's Ch launchers being removed that's totally on your assessment. Devil Jin having the worst tools that's directly your fault. "Oh no the characters I've been bitching about,got nerfed"
mainman was always crying about samsara not staggering and going into fly on block and somehow they made it that way in 8 making fly stance pointless and unusable which doesnt make sense from a dev designer pov, you already know he sent nerf feedback before/when bamco invited him for playtest
Mainman doing baby damage with him. On wall splat lazer punches you can up laser into ender and on top of that you can get more damage from non wall splat combos
The truth is if you are stuck in blue ranks (~180prowes) in t8 you are end of red ranks t7… if you are end of blue ranks (200prow) you are purple ranks t7… 220 blue ranks t7
@@herobrine1161 I wouldn't take what i said for a gospel - just comes from the feeling i got when meeting this broad range of players in blue ranks... i am around 204 prowes (with a single character) and was hardstuck last red/1st purple in t7 - now ~last two blue... i feel i got a lot better then in t7, but i doubt i would be end blue ranks in t7. And well if i go up against someone 180 i know i will eat good, like 3:0/3:1... and well when up agains a 220 i have to work really hard to keep up just to take a round or two. Also DVJ was much stronger in T7, no?
If a character is bottom 5 and even then the biggest reason he is not lower is because he has gimmicks and cheese that works well in first to 2, then it doesn't even matter if he technically isn't "weak". There is something seriously wrong with the character design, and personally he feels genuinely unsatisfying to play and the progression of getting better with Devil Jin isn't there compared to even other weak characters.
@garouthemonster9718 bro talks about how db1+2 is broken (it is a really good move) but ofcourse doesn't mention how you can option select it with spring kicks unless you're face down, you sacrifice a lot of damage in a lot of scenarios just to set up okis for his shit gimmicks being only db1+2 which no one uses out in the open like an idiot and just spams it at the wall, and also his "bullshit evasive panick buttons" like b3 and u4 are literally death on block with b3 being -15 unless it's a heat dash which is once per round and u4 being -10000000, he has no low pokes, no pokes outside of bf21 and df4, his 50/50 is hard to enforce because alot of people struggle with wavu iws2 and his hellsweep barely scratches you with his stupid backlaunched combo and 9 raw damage because everything else is recoverable, but ofocurse a pwgf that did fuckall is the buff we all needed
Kazuya main here. Kazuya has been better than Devil Jin since launch. I'm not gonna say he struggles obscenely, because I tend to do well with him (usually), but he has it way harder than Kazuya, especially after 1.05. I had a set with my friend who used Heihachi, and I started as Kazuya. After about 4 games I switched because it was one sided in my favor, and I switched to Devil Jin. Going into game 2 of that matchup, it felt like my only viable option in neutral was EWGF.
if bottom tiers doesn’t exist, TMM, the same could be said for top tiers. since day one, i always believed that the player is what matters and as the game is currently, everyone is strong and for the most part, balanced as it happens, asuka has everything she needs to “fuck you up”
One thing i wanna say, i know some will prob disagree with me, but when i play azucena i notice she has so many inconsistencies and moments where things will drop even if you do them perfectly, even at the wall, and i also notice she has awful crouch punishment, wayy too many highs that can be punished hard in the neutral especially and just mids in general, she feels really risky and thats cool but the main fact that everything just drops for no reason is what makes me feel like shes nearly unbearable to play lol. Once again this is just my opinion but its my experience since i main azucena for a while now. I feel like if you play her for a while, you could see these big problems about her kit, but On the bright side when she does work properly shes really fun lol
I just started checking her out for the first time the other day, and I noticed a lot of these things almost immediately. I do agree that she's more interesting than folks give her credit for
This video is the perfect example of disinformation that it borders on propaganda. No body is saying saying Devil Jin is bad because his offence is weak. He has some of the strongest offence. People say he is weak because his defense game is either dodge using movement or go YOLO using d3 or u4. In a game where every character has great offence and in a game where backdash is not good, the character with bad defensive buttons is a bad character. For example, the large portion of the reason why Kazuya is strong is because you cannot press buttons or play Tekken 8 against him due to df2 and twin pistons.
@@Rius9106 it is hard to press against Drag because he is pressing all the time while being safe. Basically, the characters with safer defensive options are good characters in this game, imo
@@rochaktimilsina6460 no. The top tiers are at the top because of their offense, not defence. Even yoshi is not defined by his defence in top rank play. If defence was king you'd have asuka jun and xiaoyu in top and winning tourneys.
Most DJ mains like myself would love for his cheap and annoying shit like db1+2, b3, and uf1 be nerfed if we could just have back his strong poking and match control tools like his old df1,2 back. What made me magnetized me to the character in T7 was his simplicity and ease he could play small tekken in addition to the Mishima toolset. T8 DJ is now forced to be as aggravating and panicky as possible just to not be overwhelmed by the opponents offense. Every one of his mids now ends his turn in his opponents face, forcing you to turn steal with corny options like u4 to gain respect. While the character isn’t unplayable, his design in T8 is just a complete mess, which is why I switched to Heihachi.
The hardest thing with Devil Jin is to capitalize your turn. In neutral, he doesn't have plus frames to work with and his new T8 gimmicks don't compensate his buttons' toning down. The character is still fun to play online, but you have to work very hard.
Yup thats what I do with zafina I got a new found respect for brian players though people say hes nasty but hes super honest im between tekken emperor and tekken king with zafina and good lord I'm in blue ranks sweating bricks with Brian like opening up the opponents is super hard...most of there moves faster than yours their pokes better than yours but if u score a counter hit yea they feel it..😂😂😂 Brian is super fun u actually learn real tekken...
Since Rangchu won one of the biggest tournaments with Panda in T7, I don't believe in tierlists anymore. Every character can win everything. Literally just get good.
Thank you i know i suck as Devil Jin main and ain't trying to sound pity or anycase of been a crybaby but this is abosolutely true every character feels balance and is good realization so i can train better so i can get better and not just get buffs and get carry because of buffs. I remember a day where people would get better at the game and not just rely on buffs or pay to win situation, yes there should be balance in the game when there is a broken character that defines like the games rules that makes zero sense of why the character even in the game. Again thank you for this video it makes me realize is not the character is my skill not planning to be a top player but i do want to get better at the game.
Just an fyi. The reason Devil Jin has the best win rate, and why Heihachi and Reina and Kaz have lower is not because he's good, its because no one plays him so people don't know the matchup, and everyone plays the other Mishimas so everyone knows the matchup. Also his "best" win rate, is about 0.5% higher than the other mishimas. This is how you explain that. You can see this trend with nearly every character, except Dragonov and Feng because they are completely broken. So yeah I agree the top 10 need some nerfs for sure.
Devil Jin is fun. That's what I really appreciate about him. Winning with him is fun, losing is fun, sure he could be better, but what he has now is enough to compete with the rest of the cast. The only thing I feel myself really wanting is a better power mid for wavedash mixups and a better df1, but he still works at most ranks without those That said, I've never been blown up by a Devil Jin lol. I love fighting them because it's always a fun fight, but I usually win against them no matter who I'm playing. He's just a hard character to pilot against someone with good anti-Mishima which I feel a lot playing against good Jins or Kazuyas
When you have a terrible gimmick character like DJ you're just relying on your opponent not knowing what your doing. The moment you figure out DJ BS that character don't have much to work with.
Every time I’ve played against a DJ, I just think “Oh this won’t be that hard”. And then I get hit by D/B,1+2 loops and I’m immediately thinking “HUH???? This doesn’t look like a bottom 5 character.” It was then that I realized that bottom 5 in Tekken 8 means something *very* different than in any previous Tekken game.
@@SolusFatherThat's good yo. Shows how strong a player you are. I just wish we could admit that hey... I may not be no Dragunov but when I slays? My character really slays.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Yea I don’t agree with that, it may seem like that when you are getting bodied by a Devil Jin player, but trust and believe that it’s the character getting carried and not the player.
Doesn’t matter what these “tournament players or so and so “pro players” say I just have to come and see TheMainManSwe’s opinion….because he’s simply the main man.
As a loyal Devil Jin main in Tekken8, I'm currently stuck at Vanquisher and keep being fucked by Bryan and Dragunov players😊 And by the way, Tekken8 is my first combat game
i was washed by a devil jin back in tekken 7 seven because i dont know how to play against turtles and i was playing bryan bro i need get good immediately
Ngl seeing TMM going back and forth with an opinion about DVJ and DVJ players makes me think he doesn't know what he is talking about. Gimmick and bullshit aside (cause every character has them), even Momo thinks he sucks, and I should trust the guy who lives and breathes DVJ more than a "oh this character exists" player. Cause that's what TMM is compared to Momo in terms of DVJ knowledge.
@@zesork5627 yes and Momo mentions pro players who lab characters and that's a fact that they will know the match up, but to me the highest level of play is not a good metric since like 85% of players are below that. Most of the stuff and most random interactions happen below high ranks, cause people are more likely to throw bullshit. And even those pro players who know S tier characters and lab them and go to turnaments still do not pick DVJ.
@@justhit6673 I think we need to talk about how things work generally in the online scene rather than looking at specific situations. Win Rate wise I think DJ was doing well according to last known stats. TK is a good rank btw.
I got to Raijin with Devil Jin a lot easier than I got to Fujin with my main Lee. Both pretty technical characters, but DVJ just has better "surprise factors"
DVJ isn’t weak. But he has a lot of stuff that just don’t make sense. Like his poking sucks. He has a lot of moves he has to commit to, high risk low reward, and that DAM DF1 RANGE SUCKS.
Its a little overkill to say it /only/ matters against the strongest players, but it will always be funny whenever I see someone who can barely hit Ruler/Blue ranks say that their character is the reason they're stuck. It /can/ matter a tiny bit and it certainly does mean you need to try harder/be better when fighting people of truly equal skill but until you hit gold ranks and up you typically aren't playing people /consistently smart/ enough to really take advantage of your bad MUs as fully. In games like Street Fighter I feel like you can feel bad matchups way harder at way earlier skill levels than in Tekken, it is a testament to how deep Tekken really is imo.
@SolusFather Lol Just because a player has the skill to execute electrics and wavus does not make them better Tekken players than their opponents even if the opponent is playing one of the characters you mentioned. The main reason most mishima mains are stuck is not because their character takes more skill. Its because they wasted too much time learning the skills that are not required at their level instead of focusing on fundamentals. On top of that, when they don't win, they have to cry about it complaining that every other character is cheap, takes no skill, free wins, etc.
@@aqueelkadri8371 that is exactly my point, when I said skill I wasn’t referring to execution. This is the main thing non mishima players have a hard time grasping. Mishimas players are fundamental characters, yes even Devil Jin. Spacing,movement and mixups are all just as important as the execution it takes to play them. These skills just aren’t required to rank up with half the cast.
@@SolusFather Not just spacing and movement but also matchup knowledge, punishment, reactions, etc. And it becomes way easier to beat stronger characters if you've labbed them because most players in ranked aren't good enough to wield even the s tiers to their full potential
@SolusFather the thing mishima players don't get is that they do indeed have obviously obsenely powerful tools at their disposal, that take as much skill as rolling a dice (except the electric). Doesn't make them that much different from the rest of the cast. At least mishimas are rewarded for their difficult execution moves with them being op.
character downplay really has reached its zenith with tekken 8, devil jin is alright, everyone else is probably alright too, just nerf the assholes and make bug and consistency changes first
This title is going to get Devil Jin nerfed again
For the next nerf you just can't pick him on the character select
That’s probably the point.
Good
please were struggling enough already
Yes please, the design is horrendous
If I had a nickel for Everytime the main man has said "one of the best moves in the game"
Tekken has hundreds upon hundreds of moves across the entire roster, so it makes sense the genuinely best moves are still high in number. Get that coin roll ready lmao
Maybe everytime he means "one of the 1000 best moves in the game" 🤣
... that would buy me a coffee
It’s a long list.
You'd be able to buy tekken 8 again
I think the most shocking thing to me is that devil jin is bottom tier in a tekken game. Like this is a historical moment in our generation. This character has been top tier in every tekken game he is been in.
Jin mains in t5
Wasnt he mid in 7
@@citrusblast4372at the final patch of Tekken 7,at some point dvj was top tier in T7 too
Give it 6 months. He'll be top tier again. The game will be supported for awhile
He was mid in T6
most good dvj players just dont like the fact that he kept getting nerfed for no reason and now hes also just very gimmicky and you have to play him like that instead of having a real game plan he looks so cool but it just doesnt feel great to play which is my main issue even though hes my top 3 fav characters
He knows that, he just lowkey always wanted devil jin to be ass so there was a reason to
Use Kazuya
Never would I have thought TMM would call Asuka players the biggest chads in Tekken 8
Very true. That hate was transferred to Jin now
As an Asuka main, we put in the work as much as anyone else.
Unless you play king
Bro might be the reason DVJ never gets buffs.
He wasn’t we all were because of his stupid ass heatsmash
good.
The reason is because DVJ has been a war criminal since his introduction in T5, even when mishimas got nerfed in to the ground in T6 he was the only one playable (excluding bob), in T7 until season 4 he was a menace and even at the start of T8 he was incredibly strong, but i agree some nerfs were too much in this game.
And noone would care any less or more.
He was the reason he got nerfed in the first place so yeah
If anyone, its the Kazuya players acting like theyre wearing a cross
Ikr. Like they expect a medal all the time.
He knows that, he's doing damage control to take the heat of kaz players by trying to shift it to DVJ players. Never let TMM act like he doesn't do the exact same song and dance when it's time for him to cope over being a 30 year kaz main who is still ass.
Wtf you all are talkin about
@@alondjeckto i swear man these mishima players are so funny 😭😭😭😭
Can't lie the beginning was an accurate depiction of me as a Devil jin main 😂
Yea that hit me in my soul haha
Unironically I think this vid is gonna get devil Jin nerfed again 😭😭😭
...I think Dvj players (me included), don't want to rely on gimmicks. They removed his original fun gameplan and just made him a gimmicky bs character.
If you stop using his gimmicks, you're kinda screwed.
But that's more fitting for a devil. Before he was just Tekken 3 Jin with wings.
I just want fundamental tools back and that’s it, I don’t want to lose my turn each time I use a mid
@@liu3chan that's why he existed, to be T3 Jin
@@liu3chan Well yeah. That's what we liked about him. He was a revival of Tekken 3 Jin's solid, fundamental, and well-rounded Mishima gameplay.
devil jin is a gimmick character now but no one wants him to be a gimmick character
When you have to resort to the argument that Devil Jin has a good chance at winning just because he has good gimmicks and cheese that can be abused in a first to 2 then that already tells you what a terrible state the characters is in.
@@FlokiTechjust like xiaoyu
I don't mind gimmicks. I guess I'm nobody 😂
I've said it before, both Devil Jin's and Steve's scare the shit out of me. They have to work harder than most, so they're usually cracked out of their mind at what they do
Steve is just obscenely oppressive to me. Side stepping don't help me nothing.
It’s so interesting when you think about it, because I agree with you but at the highest level Devil Jin and Steve get absolutely obliterated.
I think tier lists really start to become relevant at the highest level of Tekken.
@@luischeco3009because Steve main moves tracks the stance with the guard break has a tracking move the shoulder has a tracking move his 3+4 spin can realign and he often steps with u with his 3 or 4
@@dylzpand even at the highest level not so much I mean shadow beat ulsan dragonov the top 1 character in the hands of an obsurdly good player with zafina a bottom tier character..
@@lestonclark2398because zafina isn’t bottom tier
No matter how many times I lose my Tekken King DJ, I'm never gonna stop maining him
Just lost mines and am currently at bushin 😂
If you can hang around tekken king or high blue ranks, you’re pretty good with dj imo.
@chacazulo1987 the thing is with devil jin you have to have perfect movement to maximize him more so than any other mishima because of how stubby and negative most of his moves are, I've been watching mainman for 14 yrs but idc what he says devil jin is by far the hardest mishima in this game.
Those two moves he listed has severe counter play. Also since devil jins moves are so slow and stubby, you have to have a perfect KBD to whiff punish properly because he overall has terrible whiff moves.
Eh, I don’t completely agree. Winning online with King and Dragunov is way easier than other characters. If anything it matters more lol.
Yeah I think that matters.
It's not the only reason that some dvj players can't rank from fujin because they're bad, but because there's not so much broken or straightforward cheese bullshit that you can throw on your opponent, like many other characters do have.
Law, King, Hworang, etc.
Any character has a cheap ass strategy that if you don't know how to beat - you will occasionally lose, especially if your cheap ass strategy is way weaker than your opponent's.
When did main man say anything about it not being easier to win with king and dragunov ?
I’m at the point now, where at least drag i don’t like rematching that character anymore. Too stupid with that qcf4 hitting grounded.
I swear maimmanswe was the reason he got nerfed in tekken 7 and he will be the reason why he wont get any buffs, saying u get obliterated online doesn't mean the character is good it means the player is good or trying his best , u know there are some character loyalists who doesn't wanna give up theirs favours only bcause of nerfs but tryin to say he whatever he is good enough triggers me really. Momodog is one of the humble guys out there never complaining about all those nerfs but even he came to a point where he started pointing things out and calling dj ,, useless piece of sh!t,,
so sad to see the coolest character in my opinion being bottom 5, hes so cool especially his heat game
I played Devil Jin from day one. He’s weak against genuine Tekken fundamentals 😂😂 he’s not weak in general. In fact he’s a scrub killer, but when you run into somebody who knows when to step and stays patient. You’re suddenly out of most options you usually would have
Scrub killers are historically weaker characters, and you described pretty well why that is in the second part.
Yeah all of a sudden in T8 they gut his strong neutral controlling tools like the range of his pokes and took away his old df2/df1,2 etc. He's barely holding his original kit together that he had to rely on up close imo.
This exactly lmao. If im playing against someone scrubby whos playing mashy, spamming, not respecting frame, etc, prepare for them to eat the turn stealing moves like B3, U4, MC1 B4 frame trap easily. Meanwhile if you play against someone who play patiently, throwing those moves would be death sentence
I cant wait to see this video talking bout how low teirs can still compete online turn into twitter nerfing Dvj Demon lance because main man highlighted one of dvj strengths.
Whiff punishing is probably only one strength that DvJ now has
Devil jin is pure gimmicky. Whif something and he whips his chains out like a pervert from across the map and kills you
Whips his chains out like a pevert is crazy 😭
Them chains is slow and range is lack luster asf
That’s not a gimmick, that’s called a whiff punish buddy
@@SolusFather mf said that like heihachi ff2 doesn't have longer range than devil jins chains 🤣 matter of fact juns f2 reaches farther than devil jins chains. Mfs be hating on devil jin for no reason bro. If we whiff chains we eat 💩 all day every day and it's damn seeable.
@@brandonspringfield2861they will complain about anything. cucks.
While I generally agree with the core of the sentiment, the idea that "being bottom tier in this game doesn't matter" is flawed.
Look at TMM's video responding to a Nina main's arguments in T7. To quote: "Yeah, every character has cheese, but there are degrees to it."
The fact the character isn't frequent in ranked battles doesn't mean he can obliterate any character if you have the execution. When you have two players with comparable skill who know the match-up, that's when you'll see the issues with DJ. He's not unplayable by any means, but saying you're in a good spot while playing him against the majority of the continuously buffed roster is untrue (and I'm not even a DJ main).
You have to understand "DJ being bottom tier doesn't matter" is answer to crying DJ mains. He was top tier since his debut and now devs shaken things up a little bit and suddenly he's not on top anymore and it's almost causing riots.
@@liu3chan"shaken things up a little bit" lol
Lmao even
@@liu3chandelusional and untrue statement. But you do you.
Blud didn’t watch the video
@@YourTamedLion What's delusional?
Nerf him, nerf him, again. Nerf him till he's nothing more than the wire frame model he started out as.
We need to make Devil Jin's Electric in particular launch punishable, and have a 25 frame startup.
@@chakrashadow3220 lol
Bamco forgot to nerf devil jin in the latest patch…this man making sure it doesn’t happen again.
The main issue I have with dvj is not that he's bad. He's okay the way he is for the most part. I agree with him not having strong fundamentals while having long range shenanigans. And his shenanigans are very risky and mean death on whiff, which happens a lot with him. But that's okay, that's how a character should be balanced. Strengths, but holes as well. And dvj is quite intuitive to punish and counter.
It's more that it's infuriating to see that dvj pays a haaaard price for having gimmicks while the top tiers can just braindeadly spam bullshit with very little risk. That's the problem. Alisa and Yoshi gimmicks are 1 million times better but they don't compromise as dvj does. And there are many more examples in the top tiers.
I don't want dvj buffs, I just want top tier nerfs. I'm tired of seeing them safely spam such potent bullshit all day long without any consequences.
8:25 TMM, if Fergus kidnapped you and held a gun on your head, blink twice.
No bro that’s MainMan’s insanity. Fergus has said Asuka is A tier bro. Prolly KingReyJr’s doing
Counterpoint: It actually does, because you're getting matched with Drag, Alisa, Yoshi, King, or Law most of the time anyways.
and just like dvj is not that bad online those are beatable online. It's not gonna be the character to hold you back but it ain't gonna be a walk in the park
counter counterpoint: it doesnt because if you dont know the matchup your gonna get destroyed anyways. im a yoshi main and dj is one of my worst matchups because i barely see the character and i get beat alot by them. drag is one of my best because i actually somewhat know the matchup cause i see him all the time. you can disagree with tmm but dudes been playin this game for 20 years. he understands the average player better than alot of people. in the end tekken is hard and your gonna have to practice alot no matter who you main.
You are missing the entire point.
Nope, dvj is just as cheap as the character next to it. The reason someone might be stuck in blue is simple. He simply is not good enough for gold ranks, and not because the character sucks (because it doesn't, especially at those ranks)
DVJ has higher win rates online than these characters. He's gimmicky ASF lol
Actually has a point, in this game tier list don't matter online
Tekken 8 Devil Jin has more gimmicks than pure fundamentals
The character can literally fly, what did you expect?
@Rius9106 DvJ being a fundamental character like in every tekken game since 5
@@Rius9106 for him to fave fundamentals that he had for nearly 17 years
his win/loss ratio is a bad argument imo because he's the least played Mishima and the only people who play him atm are the loyal fans who are willing to put in the time to master the character.
note that i agree with TMM here that he is still very usable due to the cheese (honestly it's Db 1+2 the rest aren't very good) but he still needs good generic tools to be viable outside of people not knowing the match up
they aint gonna give him good generic tools looking at how they made him. Considering his play style now, he just needs effective gimmicks instead of gimmicks which arent that good. Options to delete gray health, maybe some extra moves in mcr or maybe rework the whole stance.
Even if he the least played Mishima,he still decent on the usage,and besides that even if he is a lot played or not win/lose ratio is in percentage and is true that even brainrot dvj does have a chance by playing this type of oppressive style that wouldn't really work with old dvj from T7 and backwards
Hes not bad but why play him when there's jin who has everything...😂😂😂
@@lestonclark2398 more drip
Jupp, his usage rate dropped by like 4-6% from lanuch and that is pretty damn huge drop. Meanwhile characters like Kaz and Reina has a huge playerbase so ofc it's gonna be saturated by bad players that gives them terrible winrates.
My ego as an Asuka Main gets stroked more when SweMan says Asuka players are chads. Y E S
We are SO back lol
pick any other character, then press back twice. it will blow your mind
I kinda agree with mainman here, i play asuka and a lot of people online do not how to play against sabaki's or b3
@@TheBlunkBeanie being serious for a sec, Asuka is great for a newbie to fighting games like myself. She has really easy to execute 1-1-3s that can be mixed up with 1-1-4s that do plenty of damage and can lead to nice power crushes among other really easy stuff that makes you generally think more about the actual game and how to play the matchup, and less about the crazy execution
Asuka and Devil Jin are my Mains even if they are Bottom Tier
I agree , Not gettin higher with a bottom Tier character is Just a Lack of Knowledge , i lost 17. Times my tekken King and got down to kishin multiple times now i am tekken emperor and nearly tekken God , he Lacks alot Compared to other Chars in the top , But in the Right Hands you can make every character work in high lvl of Play . i think his Wall Oki is insane and you can keep distance very well with uf2 and ff4 what Haves counterhit Launch properties. besides that tekken helping me alot going Thru a Near Death Situation Last year was horrible for me i still Recover and Hope it get better atm i am kinda Caged at Home with alot of Problems , my Body Working poorly cant work or Live my Life aswell so i want to thank you Main Man your always be one of my Favorite streamers i watched you since beginning of your Journey and i would Love to Match you someday . Thank you for helping me out in that horrible Time your attitude and character Helping me out alot Love you Man 👊🏽
The character is still solid😭😭 it's the "Heat Burst, Heat Smash" players that think DVJ is weak since it got nerfed.
Fujin player
No it's "i'd like to have my pokes back please" players that think he's weak
All my DVJ homies hated that video title
Pretty sure this video is in response to that one DJ a month ago he played who was brutal as fuck.
I just want down forward 1 back 😢
The main reason with him is not just his weakness. He is OK for ft2, when your opponent doesn’t have enough time to decode your pattern of gimmicks. They need to nerf his gimmicks like b3 or ridiculous db1+2, and instead buff his fundamental tools. I understand they tried to give him a chaotic random identity, however spamming gimmicks in a random way doesn’t seem like a deep gameplay.
People don't know how bad actual bottom tiers used to be
1:52 Keep this and title in mind next time you talk about how incredibly difficult your mains are and how if you play them you deserve 5 more ranks 👍
"because bottom tier doesn't really exist in this game"
Last 5 tournaments top 5 Dragunov,Nina,Shaheen,Yoshi and Jin army: *allow us to introduce ourselves*
He said that tiers matter only on high level. Tiers have nothing to do if someone stuck at Fujin or Tekken King.
That doesn't explain why dvj players can't even get goD online and mash u4, B3 etc no matter what rank
Qudans has a positive win rate online with dvj against every other character except for Kuma. Git gud.
"Just be qudans bro" 😂@@GarroshX
"... if you can wavedash in 6 frames and perfect electric on command with 90% consistency the character is just as playable"
TMM is a joke. For real.
Someone has been bodied by Momo
😂😂
Let's be honest tmmswe. You're totally responsible for this. You've been crying about DJ and Steve in Tekken since Tekken 7 and even in your revisited Tekken 5,6 and tag 2 videos
Now you're surprised that these characters are too weak and overnerfed. no you got them nerfed. Steve's Ch launchers being removed that's totally on your assessment. Devil Jin having the worst tools that's directly your fault.
"Oh no the characters I've been bitching about,got nerfed"
mainman was always crying about samsara not staggering and going into fly on block and somehow they made it that way in 8 making fly stance pointless and unusable which doesnt make sense from a dev designer pov, you already know he sent nerf feedback before/when bamco invited him for playtest
im so bad it hurts the eyes
Relatable
Mainman doing baby damage with him. On wall splat lazer punches you can up laser into ender and on top of that you can get more damage from non wall splat combos
The truth is if you are stuck in blue ranks (~180prowes) in t8 you are end of red ranks t7… if you are end of blue ranks (200prow) you are purple ranks t7… 220 blue ranks t7
Exactly bro
I was eternal ruler in t7 and I'm stuck between fujin and raijin in 8. I use DVJ still. Looks like I have regressed
@@herobrine1161 I wouldn't take what i said for a gospel - just comes from the feeling i got when meeting this broad range of players in blue ranks... i am around 204 prowes (with a single character) and was hardstuck last red/1st purple in t7 - now ~last two blue... i feel i got a lot better then in t7, but i doubt i would be end blue ranks in t7. And well if i go up against someone 180 i know i will eat good, like 3:0/3:1... and well when up agains a 220 i have to work really hard to keep up just to take a round or two. Also DVJ was much stronger in T7, no?
If a character is bottom 5 and even then the biggest reason he is not lower is because he has gimmicks and cheese that works well in first to 2, then it doesn't even matter if he technically isn't "weak". There is something seriously wrong with the character design, and personally he feels genuinely unsatisfying to play and the progression of getting better with Devil Jin isn't there compared to even other weak characters.
I swear Kazuya mains would rather set themselves on fire than admit Devil Jin is weak in this game.
Kazuya mains are weirdos, it seems 😆
You did not watch the video did you?
But he just-... never mind
@garouthemonster9718 bro talks about how db1+2 is broken (it is a really good move) but ofcourse doesn't mention how you can option select it with spring kicks unless you're face down, you sacrifice a lot of damage in a lot of scenarios just to set up okis for his shit gimmicks being only db1+2 which no one uses out in the open like an idiot and just spams it at the wall, and also his "bullshit evasive panick buttons" like b3 and u4 are literally death on block with b3 being -15 unless it's a heat dash which is once per round and u4 being -10000000, he has no low pokes, no pokes outside of bf21 and df4, his 50/50 is hard to enforce because alot of people struggle with wavu iws2 and his hellsweep barely scratches you with his stupid backlaunched combo and 9 raw damage because everything else is recoverable, but ofocurse a pwgf that did fuckall is the buff we all needed
Kazuya main here. Kazuya has been better than Devil Jin since launch. I'm not gonna say he struggles obscenely, because I tend to do well with him (usually), but he has it way harder than Kazuya, especially after 1.05.
I had a set with my friend who used Heihachi, and I started as Kazuya. After about 4 games I switched because it was one sided in my favor, and I switched to Devil Jin. Going into game 2 of that matchup, it felt like my only viable option in neutral was EWGF.
Ryujin boutta make a banger tweet
😂😂😂😂
if bottom tiers doesn’t exist, TMM, the same could be said for top tiers. since day one, i always believed that the player is what matters and as the game is currently, everyone is strong and for the most part, balanced
as it happens, asuka has everything she needs to “fuck you up”
One thing i wanna say, i know some will prob disagree with me, but when i play azucena i notice she has so many inconsistencies and moments where things will drop even if you do them perfectly, even at the wall, and i also notice she has awful crouch punishment, wayy too many highs that can be punished hard in the neutral especially and just mids in general, she feels really risky and thats cool but the main fact that everything just drops for no reason is what makes me feel like shes nearly unbearable to play lol. Once again this is just my opinion but its my experience since i main azucena for a while now. I feel like if you play her for a while, you could see these big problems about her kit, but On the bright side when she does work properly shes really fun lol
I just started checking her out for the first time the other day, and I noticed a lot of these things almost immediately. I do agree that she's more interesting than folks give her credit for
I’m gonna
Hellshweep
And then
I’m gonna
Uhfohfoh
I have the feeling tmm lost in ranked against a devil jin and decided to make that video
Stop nerfing devil Jin harada!!
This video is the perfect example of disinformation that it borders on propaganda.
No body is saying saying Devil Jin is bad because his offence is weak. He has some of the strongest offence. People say he is weak because his defense game is either dodge using movement or go YOLO using d3 or u4. In a game where every character has great offence and in a game where backdash is not good, the character with bad defensive buttons is a bad character. For example, the large portion of the reason why Kazuya is strong is because you cannot press buttons or play Tekken 8 against him due to df2 and twin pistons.
B3*
Dragunov is not a strong character with defense, but in offense is very good. So dragunov weak too no?
@@Rius9106 it is hard to press against Drag because he is pressing all the time while being safe. Basically, the characters with safer defensive options are good characters in this game, imo
Drag has good movement and a parry
@@rochaktimilsina6460 no. The top tiers are at the top because of their offense, not defence. Even yoshi is not defined by his defence in top rank play. If defence was king you'd have asuka jun and xiaoyu in top and winning tourneys.
Most DJ mains like myself would love for his cheap and annoying shit like db1+2, b3, and uf1 be nerfed if we could just have back his strong poking and match control tools like his old df1,2 back. What made me magnetized me to the character in T7 was his simplicity and ease he could play small tekken in addition to the Mishima toolset.
T8 DJ is now forced to be as aggravating and panicky as possible just to not be overwhelmed by the opponents offense. Every one of his mids now ends his turn in his opponents face, forcing you to turn steal with corny options like u4 to gain respect.
While the character isn’t unplayable, his design in T8 is just a complete mess, which is why I switched to Heihachi.
you're showing our low tier devil jin win secrets >:l
The hardest thing with Devil Jin is to capitalize your turn. In neutral, he doesn't have plus frames to work with and his new T8 gimmicks don't compensate his buttons' toning down.
The character is still fun to play online, but you have to work very hard.
The biggest strength a character can have is the player, getting in your opponents head is more valuable than a good moveset
Yup thats what I do with zafina I got a new found respect for brian players though people say hes nasty but hes super honest im between tekken emperor and tekken king with zafina and good lord I'm in blue ranks sweating bricks with Brian like opening up the opponents is super hard...most of there moves faster than yours their pokes better than yours but if u score a counter hit yea they feel it..😂😂😂 Brian is super fun u actually learn real tekken...
Nah, say that to T3 Ogre
Thanks I needed this video find myself so conflicted as a DJ main I’m at kishin rank as of now I pray there’s hope for me
As someone who decided that DJinn was gonna be my Mishima after I get Jun to Red ranks, I am pleased.
tl dr if you're playing against a better player you'll get your ass whooped anyway.
I can confirm as a Raijin, I got blown up last night by a DVJ😂😂🤣🤣🤣
Love TMM Tekken's educational videos. Interesting as always.
Wow. mainman is gaining back my respect for not crying about mishimas and other characters now
Since Rangchu won one of the biggest tournaments with Panda in T7, I don't believe in tierlists anymore. Every character can win everything. Literally just get good.
Thank you i know i suck as Devil Jin main and ain't trying to sound pity or anycase of been a crybaby but this is abosolutely true every character feels balance and is good realization so i can train better so i can get better and not just get buffs and get carry because of buffs.
I remember a day where people would get better at the game and not just rely on buffs or pay to win situation, yes there should be balance in the game when there is a broken character that defines like the games rules that makes zero sense of why the character even in the game. Again thank you for this video it makes me realize is not the character is my skill not planning to be a top player but i do want to get better at the game.
Well calling dvj cheap makes you cheaper😅
When's the podcast with momodog.
Just an fyi. The reason Devil Jin has the best win rate, and why Heihachi and Reina and Kaz have lower is not because he's good, its because no one plays him so people don't know the matchup, and everyone plays the other Mishimas so everyone knows the matchup. Also his "best" win rate, is about 0.5% higher than the other mishimas. This is how you explain that. You can see this trend with nearly every character, except Dragonov and Feng because they are completely broken. So yeah I agree the top 10 need some nerfs for sure.
Being bottom tier doesn't matter, but being top tier absolutely does matter in ranked
Devil Jin is fun. That's what I really appreciate about him. Winning with him is fun, losing is fun, sure he could be better, but what he has now is enough to compete with the rest of the cast. The only thing I feel myself really wanting is a better power mid for wavedash mixups and a better df1, but he still works at most ranks without those
That said, I've never been blown up by a Devil Jin lol. I love fighting them because it's always a fun fight, but I usually win against them no matter who I'm playing. He's just a hard character to pilot against someone with good anti-Mishima which I feel a lot playing against good Jins or Kazuyas
When you have a terrible gimmick character like DJ you're just relying on your opponent not knowing what your doing. The moment you figure out DJ BS that character don't have much to work with.
From a Raven main….”everybody has their stuff” How to shut down Ravens SZ pressure….jab. Hes so ass in this game but I love him
Devil Jin definitly needs a buff. but if they are going to buff him, they also need to nerf his panic buttons. that shit is obnoxious to deal with lol
Every time I’ve played against a DJ, I just think “Oh this won’t be that hard”. And then I get hit by D/B,1+2 loops and I’m immediately thinking “HUH???? This doesn’t look like a bottom 5 character.” It was then that I realized that bottom 5 in Tekken 8 means something *very* different than in any previous Tekken game.
It just shows how busted the top 5 characters are..😂😂😂that the weakest characters are actually normal characters...😂😂
We just make him look op 😭
@@SolusFatherThat's good yo. Shows how strong a player you are. I just wish we could admit that hey... I may not be no Dragunov but when I slays? My character really slays.
@@Kenkyou_Nogata Yea I don’t agree with that, it may seem like that when you are getting bodied by a Devil Jin player, but trust and believe that it’s the character getting carried and not the player.
Bro i play both him and Kaz and apart from Dragunov he was my easiest rank up. Got him and Kaz both at Kishin atm
Doesn’t matter what these “tournament players or so and so “pro players” say I just have to come and see TheMainManSwe’s opinion….because he’s simply the main man.
Just never forget a fucking Panda main won EVO in Tekken 7 :D
As a loyal Devil Jin main in Tekken8, I'm currently stuck at Vanquisher and keep being fucked by Bryan and Dragunov players😊
And by the way, Tekken8 is my first combat game
"combat game" ?
Thanks for the content man. Love it
tier S-B+ is right. it just becomes knowing the match up. its hard to learn these match up when ppl dont play the "weaker" chars.
I really enjoy your analyzation videos
Propaganda again from this streamer
I've had many rounds against Devil Jin that ended basically because of one electric -> carry to the wall for massive damage -> death trap wall mixup.
Imagine being Asuka and just use forward 2+3 with that charge punch
i was washed by a devil jin back in tekken 7 seven because i dont know how to play against turtles and i was playing bryan
bro i need get good immediately
Devil Jin has so many moves and plays almost like a boss character if used correctly, that’s why he stays getting nerfed.
If you buff dvj df1 and his hellsweep and make like 2 moves plus on block he would easily be a tier
But then some other character would be lower on the tier list.
Cannot count how many times a Dan habiki perfected me in street fighter
"Me as DVJ main struggle so much"
Me playing Kuma: 💀💀
Kuma is high tier
@zesork5627 bro 💀💀
Mainman calling Asuka players chads is something i never expected to hear, thats character development
Ngl seeing TMM going back and forth with an opinion about DVJ and DVJ players makes me think he doesn't know what he is talking about. Gimmick and bullshit aside (cause every character has them), even Momo thinks he sucks, and I should trust the guy who lives and breathes DVJ more than a "oh this character exists" player. Cause that's what TMM is compared to Momo in terms of DVJ knowledge.
Yet Momo said DVJ only sucks at the highest level of play, with his gimmicks being enough to get you to GoD
@@zesork5627 yes and Momo mentions pro players who lab characters and that's a fact that they will know the match up, but to me the highest level of play is not a good metric since like 85% of players are below that. Most of the stuff and most random interactions happen below high ranks, cause people are more likely to throw bullshit. And even those pro players who know S tier characters and lab them and go to turnaments still do not pick DVJ.
I have seen DVJ reach Fujin by just spamming b3 in some videos. He is pretty much a cheese character.
Patient players blow up by stepping or just blocking and launching , b3 is a death sentence against those players
@justhit6673 But then again how many players are patient online?
@ I’m hardstuck tekken king with him, there’s more than you’d think
@@justhit6673 I think we need to talk about how things work generally in the online scene rather than looking at specific situations. Win Rate wise I think DJ was doing well according to last known stats. TK is a good rank btw.
I got to Raijin with Devil Jin a lot easier than I got to Fujin with my main Lee. Both pretty technical characters, but DVJ just has better "surprise factors"
DVJ isn’t weak. But he has a lot of stuff that just don’t make sense. Like his poking sucks. He has a lot of moves he has to commit to, high risk low reward, and that DAM DF1 RANGE SUCKS.
my personal favorite is iws2 after db 1+2 +24 on block. I agree ^ Dvj is low tier but goddamn do I hit like a truck in the right opportunity
Its a little overkill to say it /only/ matters against the strongest players, but it will always be funny whenever I see someone who can barely hit Ruler/Blue ranks say that their character is the reason they're stuck. It /can/ matter a tiny bit and it certainly does mean you need to try harder/be better when fighting people of truly equal skill but until you hit gold ranks and up you typically aren't playing people /consistently smart/ enough to really take advantage of your bad MUs as fully.
In games like Street Fighter I feel like you can feel bad matchups way harder at way earlier skill levels than in Tekken, it is a testament to how deep Tekken really is imo.
1:50 Thank god he said it
Mainman's community needs to hear this more than anyone else. And it applies to all mishima mains not just devil jins
Well yeah, mishimas take more skill therefore you have to be a better player than an asuka, alisa, Dragunov
@SolusFather Lol
Just because a player has the skill to execute electrics and wavus does not make them better Tekken players than their opponents even if the opponent is playing one of the characters you mentioned.
The main reason most mishima mains are stuck is not because their character takes more skill. Its because they wasted too much time learning the skills that are not required at their level instead of focusing on fundamentals. On top of that, when they don't win, they have to cry about it complaining that every other character is cheap, takes no skill, free wins, etc.
@@aqueelkadri8371 that is exactly my point, when I said skill I wasn’t referring to execution. This is the main thing non mishima players have a hard time grasping. Mishimas players are fundamental characters, yes even Devil Jin. Spacing,movement and mixups are all just as important as the execution it takes to play them. These skills just aren’t required to rank up with half the cast.
@@SolusFather Not just spacing and movement but also matchup knowledge, punishment, reactions, etc. And it becomes way easier to beat stronger characters if you've labbed them because most players in ranked aren't good enough to wield even the s tiers to their full potential
@SolusFather the thing mishima players don't get is that they do indeed have obviously obsenely powerful tools at their disposal, that take as much skill as rolling a dice (except the electric). Doesn't make them that much different from the rest of the cast. At least mishimas are rewarded for their difficult execution moves with them being op.
TMM making fun of himself but he forgot he plays kaz and not DVJ, very tragic.
character downplay really has reached its zenith with tekken 8, devil jin is alright, everyone else is probably alright too, just nerf the assholes and make bug and consistency changes first