Jim Cornette on Modern Wrestling Training & Mindset
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- Опубликовано: 10 сен 2024
- From Episode 454 of the Jim Cornette Experience
Artwork by Travis Heckel!
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I wish every smart mark on the planet to sit down and listen to every word of this.
Every wrestler
@@subxzero10000 i didn't want to be redundant. lol
The fans & wrestlers that need to listen to this, are too ignorant & proud of it.
@@harveycryst222 And yet they'll pretend they're "too nice" when really they have a Napoleon complex, as witnessed in the 2014 and 2015 Royal Rumbles.
They won’t they know everything. Fucking Marks
Back then the crowd didnt want babyfaces to get hurt and just wanted the heels to get hurt. Nowadays they wanna see crazy bumps and chant for the faces to jump through ladders and tables
I literally said this on a past post when Jim spoke about heels being cheered 😂 the people want to cheer bad guys this world Is polluted so everything is like backwards at times. Hard to get a new baby face over in this era just gotta heel 😅
@@Melo_Soul Wardlow was over for a little Bit so was FTR and Cody Rhodes In WWE it’s not that hard just be likable
@@Melo_Soul but it is how they are presented that is the issue. The problem is the lazy booking and no comprehension of how to present good vs. bad. Humans have not changed we are hardwired to respond to this, so they will go the way you guide them. But if you leave the booking vague then fans will respond to whoever is being presented as "cool".
@Dave Even if people know it's a work, they can still be compelled to boo a heel if it's presented correctly. MJF before the recent shenanigans in AEW is a great example.
@@Raven34643 MFJ is at the absolute pinnacle of being a heel though. Hardly anyone can achieve this. Everyone else underneath his get cheers and laughs for insulting the faces. So I don't really think it's that. It's more that everyone in the world likes to be an asshole and so they relate to this stuff. And the heels have better writing than the good ole boy faces. And if you don't believe that the heel is an actual despicable person, it's hard to hate them. Instead you need to be an extra and "play along". And people don't like to play along all the time, they like to rebel they like a bit of chaos.
When I first got into wrestling in 1996 or 1997, my grandma told me it was all a work. That made me like it even more. The fact that these people didn't actually want to break each other's necks but just wanted to make people believe it just seemed so much cooler to me than it being "real. " Now it's just so much more obvious how fake it is. I can only suspend my disbelief so far. How many Towers of Doom have I seen? How many balcony dives onto a waiting group of dorks ready to catch the diver have I seen?
Watch puro. NOAH, AJPW or GLEAT. Traditional pro wrestling isn't really a thing in the US anymore.
Imo "working stiff" means hitting a fair bit harder like Iljia Dragonov vs Walter or Cesaro Vs Sheamus it looks rough and tumble because it is... but not just pummling the opponant and dropping them on their heads
Yep, it is what sometimes is called strong style by British or Japanese wrestling fans, working in a more shoot like manner but not potatoing people left and right.
working stiff is usually like hard punches or kicks or clotheslines , it’s not dropping your opponent on their head or running drop kick into them.
@@stigrabbid589 stiff isn't strong style
More wrestlers should listen to Cornette. He's on point 100%. The modern style is less selling and has a niche audience.
Cornette needs to watch MMA
@@Ticketman99 why?
@@AliAkbar-yx3hv He claims to want serious when it comes to combat sport. Pro wrestling will never, ever be the place for that ever again.
@@Ticketman99 Of course it can. If these doofus indy children were wrestling properly then that's exactly what it would be. If they treated it seriously, then that would be the perception of it. But they're not, so it isn't.
"Less" is being polite. These dudes kick out of being demolished through furniture and every suplex you can imagine.
The scariest thought about the Athena match is the thought that Red jobber thought the only way to get noticed was to take insane dangerous bumps on a RUclips show no one cares about
The Cornette bashers have no idea of the knowledge they'd receive, just by listening.
They won’t listen because, like Cornette said, they think they know better
But Cornette worshippers can't handle MMA LMAO
You clowns
@@presidentskroob No, we won't listen because he's a bumbling, out of touch, over opinionated hypocrite and bigot who thinks hillbilly wrestling from 40 years ago was more important than it actually is. This MF literally makes more money from his podcast than he ever made working redneck towns in the middle of nowhere.
Well, they’ll learn how to be terroristic rapists from Cornette.
This is a masterclass introduction to professional wrestling.
lol ok
@@greglewia6160 was i talking to you there troll. No i wasnt ? Lol ok
Hey now. That's not nice. Greg's not a troll. Now his girl friend....SHEEESSS TROLL. A REAL LIVE LIVING UNDER THE BRIDGE TROLL. 3'5", 178lbs ,skin so pale she looks green, and big narly wart on her nose with thick curly hair growing out of it. I've also heard she been know to eat billy goats.
@@greglewia6160 everything corny does is master class. And genius level at that. He lived he helped create it he's tried to save it. Unlike the uncle Dave's of the world he actually knows and tells the truth ! If it hurts people's feelings ? As Hawk would say " you don't like it we don't care!"
Between this and a Vice clip of Jim talking about seeing a fight on the side of the road I saw just this morning, these are two of the greatest segments I’ve heard him do in a looooong time
I miss when wrestling was about grown men having a fight and not little kids doing dance routines.
May I interest you in an entire playlist of WALTER matches?
Start watching MMA
@@matthewl3002 Still "dance routines".
Wrestling is not fighting.
Absolutely. Now we have annoying pricks like Ricochet, Trey Miguel , Mustafa Ali , Seth Rollins, and Zack Ryder.
I’ve never commented on your videos before, but this is one of the best I’ve ever heard.
When i was 23... i wanted to get into wrestling i am 6ft6 and in shape, found a guy who was trained by the Hart Family in the early 80s you never heard of and i think i got trained well, but i went to several shows and no one wanted to work with me since i would go "ok, so your going to do a **insert gymnastic routine** for what reason? How about we just not do that"
Sounds like they don't wanna make money
There's a difference between working stiff and being reckless. You want matches to be snug and look like it hurts and a little pain is not an issue. But what you don't want is people doing reckless shit that ends up injuring your opponent or yourself.
Like what happens in aew during almost every match. Way to much stupid shit with no pay off. And if I have watch three guys,two heels and a face, arm in arm patiently waiting while the idiot they'll be catching takes 45 seconds to climb to top rope, get perched on ring post, and look back to make sure he's going to be caught I'll shot my tv. Or change the channel depending on number of beers I've consumed! I hope they'll atleast let injured worker heal probably before putting them back in ring. Omegas return he could hardly move much less work decent. Looked weak and in pain
Reckless guy are crowbars....most kids in biz today don't know that term even. They should realize it's not a good thing to be reckless and a crowbar.
The definition of "What more do you want from me"
Alot of Marks and alot of wrestlers think "Oh I gotta up the Ante and do this crazy wrestling move I once saw in a video game" When in reality wrestling fans just want a amazing match and storyline in the match also before and after. Crazy how the Wrestler think we don't care when we don't want a wrestler breaking his neck because he wants to go crazy
@@distinguishedallureproduct879 this is why I love listening to Jim. Not only do I get the entertainment but it inspires comment from others who "get it" do to speak. I've said a thousand times if a want to see circus Solai or whatever it is thats what I buy a ticket to. Why the hell promoters today can't watch some old shit and see what's missing I'll never know. I get that all the constant high spot stuff is fun to watch but not unlike taking my 5"year old grand daughter to her gymnastics class it's cool but gets old really quick!
@@phildodson6141 if they'd ever gotten a good ole stiff as hell Hansen clothesline they might it.
Jim Cornette's Rants on modern wrestling is pure gold 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
We need an omnibus
@@rubenarriaga3029 that's genius
Cornette vision for wrestling in 2022 does not seem that entertaining either
@@omarhosam8880 LMFAO 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Your English is tin.
This was fascinating. Learning about the intricacies of entering the business back in the old day makes it really sink in that those of us who only started watching from the 90's onwards have only known "sports entertainment". Even though we enjoyed good workers (Rock, Austin, Guerrero, Angle, Rey, Danielson, to name a few) who could make us believe, we have never experienced true rasslin', because the essence of it was not letting people know it was all a work.
cringe
Don’t compare those PG dweebs to the GOATs
If you were a young kid during the Hulk Hogan era there was a good chance you still thought it was real. =P
Where to start. Cringe indeed.yes there were good workers during att era but biz had changed so much hard to compare with what everyone likes to refer to as old days. As for believing I first saw wrestling on tv in probably 1968 or 69. I was 10 in 68. I remember it like yesterday. Some guy in full Frankenstein costume getting hit over the head ,yep his big green head , with a metal trash can. Then local legend Ron Wright on mic calling people red neck hillbilly ninkumpoop! Fans screaming yelling threatening to kill him. Love st first sight! They had me at trash can. The absolutely stupidest thing I'd ever seen and I couldn't turn away. At ten years old I instantly knew it was bill shit but didn't care. I watched every sat I could. My dad hated the shit and turned it off any time he found me watching. Spent summer weekends at lake cabin no tv reception. So any chance to see I did. Filmed at little station in town. Started going with buddy. Studio had like 50:seats . People showed up hour and half before to get in. Im rambling sorry. What I was getting at even at ten years old I knew work. You'd have to be ignorant to think otherwise. 250 lb man can't bash you over the head with steel chair and no kill ya. Didn't care. When you go watch Die Hard did you think some off duty guard smuck actually found 15 well armed and trained terrorist and kicked their ass. ENTERTAINMENT! 1950 or 2022 anyone who can watch wrestling and think it's remotely real is a retard. Suspension of reality. It's a great escape. Stop over thinking it. It's not rocket surgery or brain science!
@@maryheim-hancock8625 So were those people screaming and yelling all retards? Not all of them would have been 'playing along'. That's a big reason why they don't care about the believability anymore. There's nothing to lose. I'd say there have been times and places where the incentive was enough to make the performers behave as though the rivalries and injuries were just as they were presented. But what you're referring to is occasions when the presentation wasn't sports-like to begin with. People don't care if a jobber is spotted with the bad guys, but they'll care if someone who's on top is spotted with them. Top performers can make someone not just suspend belief but just believe, whether you call them retards or not. I've heard a thousand times, people asking whether or not some events in AEW recently were staged or not. Or whether McMahon's retirement is staged or not. They're not playing along when they say that, in 2022.
It reminds me of the 90's when there was a Karate studio on every corner.
Love him or hate him Jim Cornette is one of the best minds in wrestling, if only the current "talent" listened to him instead of doing 360 backflips and breaking tables
I believe Gunther and Sheamus know what working stiff is.
Modern wrestling is basically a reflection of what modern entertainment is these days. Most people don't care about a great story of characters emotional, slow building up scene and moments that ultimately lead to a huge climax and payoff; most people only want to see huge explosions, colorful,action scenes, and stuff that always has the adrenaline pumping.
That's partly how so many movie and show producers get away with making crappy movies most of the time; people justify there being no good storytelling by saying "you shouldn't expect a good story from *insert movie or show here*! Stop critiquing it and just enjoy the action". We as a society have generally turned our brains off for sake of entertainment, and unless you happen to be a actual serious fan of a franchise or series, you don't really care enough to point out flaws or dive deep into the stories and characters.
Casual wrestling fans don't care about getting a compelling and long story between two or more wrestlers that leads to slow, but tension building matches down the road; they only care about stories that get resolved easily and wrestling matches that have alot of flips and extreme spots that make you say "WOW!". And unfortunately for actual serious wrestling fans, these wrestling companies pander to the casual fans and give them what they want over those that truly care for the overall product.
Truth. Writing (and the wrestling equivalent) is an afterthought or worse. Nothing matters next to the visual. Shallow times we live in.
People want instant gratification. Never to wait long since patience is dying for everyone nowadays. Oh how sad wrestling has downgraded, slowly diminishing and just consistent spot fests.
You think the people watching wrestling nowadays are "casual" fans😂😂
> Casual wrestling fans don't care about getting a compelling and long story between two or more wrestlers that leads to slow, but tension building matches down the road; they only care about stories that get resolved easily and wrestling matches that have alot of flips and extreme spots that make you say "WOW!"I disagree.
That's what modern Core fans want. If casual fans wanted that, they'd be watching the product. But they're not watching the product. Casual fans always care about stories. Casual fans always want characters they can fall in love, or hate, with. Casual fans always want to be invested and to believe. Casual fans always want the product to feel and look real - which in 2022 probably means being more like UFC.
Casual fans are not getting that, which is why they're not watching.
@@JRWall-hf9mq Fair enough, so I'll change my statement:
Most modern hardcore/serious wrestling fans think good wrestling matches are full of fast and dangerous flips and spots, and many of them don't care about getting a great or compelling story that takes time and emotional investment to build.
This is why I listen to Cornette: the wisdom and history and psychology of the business being passed down. Kayfabe may be dead but the basics of storytelling still exist (and work) and these videos are a treasure trove.
As a non-wrestling fan, hearing things like this really gives me an idea of the passion and respect Jim has for the business.
why exactly would a non-wrestling fan spend his time listening to a pro wrestling personality talk about the theory and practice of pro wrestling?
@@martintraphagen3698 Hey, shut up, don't gatekeep. The wrestling business could use more fans, particularly ones that know how to respect an old head that knows what he is talking about.
Jim, thank you for sharing your knowledge about the business of wrestling.
Wrestling is not the only sport that has fallen hard in popularity. Boxing fell hard in recent decades. Top pro-bowlers in the 60s through the 80s were household names. NASCAR was so big in the late 90s that the average person could probably roll off the names of 10 different drivers without actually have ever watched a race.
Yep, and all of them including pro wrestling peaked popularity-wise in the 90s/mid 2000s.
I grew up in the 90’s. You’re alone on that NASCAR opinion.
@@drillosophy1012 It's not an opinion. NASCAR was huge in 1999 and their demos would have made Tony Khan wet. Today? Not so much. It is a matter of fact that NASCAR is significantly less popular today than it was 2 decades ago.
@@NhBleker Better in the same way that Miley Cyrus is better than Mozart, sure.
@@stigrabbid589 Professional boxing peaked in importance around the 1950s. Only its prestige peaked in the 90s and 2000s.
A lot of new wrestlers do not get in the mindset of a wrestler before going on television. MJF does and it shows
100% truth. The issue these days is literally just a bunch of joy-boys who are unserious and want to laugh. Sometimes they get emotional but it's rarely due to in-ring storytelling and more due to injuries, retirements or deaths. That should tell you something!
Joy Boys !
Modern wrestlers don't draw a dime
@@dimedraweriv258 They could "draw" a dime but that would take talent
@@goligogo923 nah they couldn’t draw a dime even if they had construction paper and a gray crayon
@@dimedraweriv258 Yeah, ROH, AEW, NXT and NJPW don't sell out arenas, we all Smoking Mountain Wrestling set all-time attendance records! Lmao.
"Personal issues draw money🤑" that sign still hangs in Jerry Jarrett's office.
This is true af. The "Performance Art Phase" is so where we are. If it's more serious and believable, the lines are blurred, and there seems to be animosity between two competitors, ppl will treat it like a serious product and will grow.
that’s where AEW and the indy’s are. I still like how WWE still treats wrestling with respect.
This was 💯pure game. Too bad only a few modern wrestlers "take advice"😔
@@TonTonTon140 FACTS
I just don't see them coming back from Tony siding with "The Elite".
And even worse they are proud to admit they dont take advice. If I were a wrestler and there was a veteran backstage I’d go out of my way to consult for any advice to improve in any way possible.
@@Xeryoc PREACH
This is next-level story telling about what wrestling was and is supposed to be like, perhaps the most informative video Corny's ever made. Respect had to be earned before you were ever allowed in. Now, the Cucamonga kids should be forwarded this and forced to listen to this while being stretched Adrian Street style.
Grew up and spent the majority of my life in Dyersburg. Never tire of hearing our town mentioned within the podcast. There's still a wrestling venue with Herb's name attached just down the street. Just wish this shit was like the old days
I'm an hour away from you and I pass that venue everytime I go to Memphis ive heard many stories
@@DeeTheToyHunter That's the one. Off St. John Ave. I'll be honest, I probably should, but have never been able to bring myself to attend an event there. Just feel like it'll murder everything I remember about the early to mid 80s CWA
I never knew that Dyersburg was a hot town for pro wrestling during that time I knew Paducah KY was...I grew up in Florida during the end of the territory days....me and one of my buddies talked about going to a show there in Dyersburg but haven't done it yet
@@DeeTheToyHunter Once in a while, CWA would run a spot show at Dyersburg State college. Never had the bluster of an actual Midsouth Coliseum evening, but it was nice they thought of us. Did Crockett tour much of Florida near the end of the territory days? At one time, Florida was the *place*
@@furiousseasons1 I don't believe so...by then Crockett had transitioned over to wcw
Absolutely Great! Thank you Jim for the amazing insight on wrestling
This segment is one of my favorite
Yeah, It's almost a summary of what Jim's been saying this whole time about the state of wrestling.
Imagine jim's reaction if omega creates his own wrestling school someday.
Featuring the following courses
-Prissy Prancing 101
-How to wrestle a 4th grader
-Phys-Ed 101, Exercises in Twinkletoes and Fingerbangs
-Animal Husbandry, how to get bitten while rescuing your disgruntled rival’s dog from a brawl.
-Last Minute Improvisation, Your opponent no-showed with 20 min until your match, how fast can you inflate a blow up doll to use as an opponent?
-How to build an exploding ring
-How to disguise a crash pad, the fact you bury young talent in bad comedy factions, and your insurrectionist beliefs…. Oops, that’s Jericho’s wrestling school
Good lord, he'd have everyone call him "Omega Sensei" or worse, "Omega Sama".
My take is that yes these wrestlers of today are still working very hard, yes many of them are talented or gifted individuals (ironically more athletic and acrobatic than some much better wrestlers from the past) but it all looks so contrived now. A lot of the time the aim of the game is not to have a match where two guys or girls are presenting the visual of trying to hurt eachother, but that they are literally just going through the motions till they can get their flashy offence in for the approval of the brain-dead zombies in the audience.
The narrative that wrestling has progressed is abdolutely ludicrous. Times have definitely changed but not for the better. I don't necessarily want any past era back, there's just a certain style of match that I want back. One where sanity prevails!
One of my friends who's hoping to be a big wrestling star one day states it best: he'd rather work with the guys of yesterday... but share a locker room with today's wrestlers (which I understand, because he'd of been picked off in an instant by any era from 20 or more years ago 😂)
No matter how athletic the performances are today, they are OBVIOUSLY performances. The point of pro wrestling should be to give the impression of several folks in a physical battle, working to disable and pin the opponent. Today so much is merely spots for the sake of spots. If that's what people want to watch, that's fine, but don't lie about winners and losers. There is no contest in the ring.
Well said man! I find the same thing, it's like a series if choreographed moves, watching ppl get in place for obviously contrived spots, and everyone kicking out of everything, it's all too much.
Wow. Now that was a 5 star explanation.
Every wrestler must treat any convenient perceived slight or inconvenience as a major contributing factor to the starvation of their wife and children, and react accordingly.
I wish Corny would just walk out on WWE and have schedule that fits his travel requests. The pop Corny would get and the things Corny would allude to and flat out say on the mic would be ratings GOLD
A good stiff, pro match?
Walter vs. Ilja. Perfection.
If there is a podcast award, this clip should win one.
This is basically Miyagi telling Daniel why he should "sand the floor", "wax on/off" and "paint the fence".
I'm grateful that the school I'm at really drills in the basics and fundamentals, selling, making sure hits and grabs and whatnot look legit, save all the acrobatics and dangerous stuff for once you've already got a strong grasp of the fundamentals. They use guys like Dr Tom and William Regal as examples for how they train people.
I’m currently training to become a wrestler and all of my peers tell me to incorporate high spots. Which really annoys me because I’m not some Joe Schmo. I’ve training in BJJ since I’m 10 and view Danielson, Dr. Death and O’Reilly as my biggest influences. I tell them “I don’t want to dance, I want to fight” and it makes me sad that I’m the only one who really wants to put on a fight rather than do a dance. If I was told I was “wrestling” the Invisible Man, I’d get my ass out of there and just take a nap
Do MMA.
Waiting for Jim's rant on Tony Khan booking himself for a meet and greet, thinking people would come to see him and the fact only 7 people came 🤣
The only trainer I’ve seen who seems to get it is Al Snow. He’s teaching kids psychology: that’s the key to everything. You can do all the moves, but if they don’t mean anything, it’s all for nothing.
Not just Al,but you are correct. Dr. Tom Prichard, George South, Ricky Morton do try to teach psychology. Rip Rodgers and Danny Davis did at OVW,then WWE would undo their work when the talent was called up
Hoping to learn under Dustin Rhodes someday soon. Maybe this video will say something important.
He's also "getting with the times" and doing crazy stuff
@@jasonalec6573 yeah but it’s the safest crazy I’ve ever seen. I can get down with that.
Good luck with that.
i think in todays age it is far more difficult to achieve that kind of emotion in wrestling. social media and such beside...the thing why other sports prevailed is cause they have strict rules-...thats why it is competitive and not phony. and people like real competitiviveness . in wrestling there is no such thing. it evolved to be "sports entertainment". everything is possible and every rule can be changed. every non wrestling fan thinks its a phony business. wrestling is phony...but the art is to make it look and feel like it is not...thats where the magic happens. yeah...every wrestling match is phony to begin with (when you compare it to an mma or boxing match for example)...but wrestling has the ability to make such things more entertaining like an action movie, wuth the promos, with the angles, with the moves. thats why i enjoy wrestling so much, cause it unites different kinds of entertainment...when it is done well. an nowdays there is only one good match and angle every ten bad ones.
Blame the Old Guard for not upholding standards, what are new-commers even meant to do?
Be young lions just like NJPW.
Clean the arena after events & spend 6hrs every day in the company dojo learning how to from the old gaurd then do tasks like everyone's laundry/cooking.
What a great listen.
Disagree on one point. One sport is other than wrestling is failing NASCAR has also dove tailed and for the same reason
Gimmicky bullshit
Yeah, the stage racing killed it for me. And the CFTC/playoffs have been a fucking disaster for attendance and ratings so I don't get why they still do it. It's like Gary Bettman refusing to admit that putting a hockey team in Arizona was dumb and moving them somewhere that people would give a shit.
I’m not a nascar aficionado, but I’m intrigued how nascar got gimmicky? What’s the issue with nascar?
@@i_swear_im_nota_weaniebaby757 main thing is the "playoffs" where they reset the points and eliminate 4 drivers every four races, it was designed to create a title fight but all it does is create controversy and a undeserving driver can fluke a win
And it leads to the bigger issue imo and the stirred up fights where untalented or immature kids with rich parents buy a seat and they cause chaos in the field to the point of intentional wrecks which are extremely dangerous, just last week someome intentionally wrecked someone at 180 mph
And their closing some of best tracks in favor of bigger tracks with bigger stands. They'll end up closing Bristol and nascar probably done
@@downnice95 At least Bubba didn't nearly send Larson into the crowd like Edwards did with Keslowski. Though in Edwards' case it was probably justified.
Listening to Jimmy make these valid points highlights how low Professional Wrestling has fallen.
Every up and coming wrestler needs to watch this.
I have a FMW tape from 95 and i popped seeing Ricky Morton teaming with Riki Fuji ! I didnt see that coming !
They did a few 6 man tag matches too with Robert definently worth a look. I think outside of DDT goofy crap. Japan is really the only place where guys are properly trained and have the opportunities to work with a lot of amazing legends that are still active. Like Ricky Fuji san himself.
This was much needed. It's not just one company fault... WWE, WCW, NJPW, Triple A, TNA, ECW.... hell the fans at fault too.
I discovered "chat rooms" and online forums around the same time I began to become a wrestling fan, and sharing my opinion on those was a mistake in hindsight. I already knew pro wrestling was a work since before I was a fan but I wasn't ready to be lectured on how things "really" worked, much less by a bunch of fans who only thought they knew.
I think Ember Moon was trained by Booker T if I recall
Yes.
True, but she wasn’t pulling this stuff in NXT. Maybe it’s not a matter of training, more so environment.
Respect the business.
Wrestling died when Vince took over and pushed Hulk Hokey. I don’t care how popular it got or how much money he made, he killed the business forever.
No it didn't. It made the business more popular than ever which by definition is good for wrestling. I wouldn't expect a socialist to know what's good for anyone or anything, however.
@@mitchcolburn1216 You don’t know anything about the entertainment industry.
@@GracefulEloquence A lot more than you evidently. That boring ass territory bullshit was never going to be sustainable for wrestling.
After watching a couple of shoots interviews from Raven, it's easy to see how Jim might have influenced him
Al snow as well. Corny is a brilliant wrestling mind
I don't know what I like more. The fact that its spelt "Rasslin". Or the fact that the "R" is backward.
Just sucks times have changed, I'd give anything to get the attitude era back anyday of the week. Nothing will ever beat it.
The Attitude era is also at least partially responsible for killing the business. Unfortunately, not enough people realized it at the time.
Oh god no. I hate the attitude era.
@@Raven34643 Unfortunately not enough people realize that the people saying that know nothing.
It was the stars of the era that made it good really. Frankly some of shit that went on in the AA was cringe or trash but the stars of the time sold it. Its why attempts to recapture the era have failed cause the current generation cant get that shit over.
@@MrRjh63 That's why I have a love-hate relationship with the Attitude era. When viewed as a totality, it's highly overrated but I still enjoy going back watching the top guys get over to the level they did. Some of it could be nostalgia; I was in high school in the late 90s and got caught up in it like many people my age did.
Do you want proof that wrestling logic is doomed? Tables are now more over than the wrestlers. Let that sink in for a minute.
So in the good ol days the old timers would take you out to the barn to stretch and “hook” you. 2022 is pretty fucked but that sounds worse.
You weren't born, so I'd say it wasn't worse.
When I first looked at the cartoon I thought it was Sami Zayn's wrestling school 😂
Storytelling psychology is the same in wrestling as it is in movies. Good guys vs bad guys, bad guy does something to the good guy, good guy wants to get back at the bad guy. Personal drama sells. And in the end the good guy wins.
If you wanna make a good wrestling feud or a good movie, the basis of captivating storytelling is the same.
Jim won't admit it, but the reason classic grassroots wrestling died off is solely down to Vince Mcmahon. He took the business international and created a circus stye parody of it to the point where it was obviously fake.
He wouldn’t fully admit it because he made him money but he’s hinted that Vince killed the business
I actually was going to pay a certain orlando based trainer like 5k to be unhirable by any promotion based on his name alone..
In honesty AEW really messed me up. At 35 I was going to try and make a dream of mine come true because now. Anyone can be a wrestler. I'm 5'5 and I'm really happy I googled guy.
Was it the certain pedo who is friends with a certain EVP?
Name?
I'm guessing Rance
I train currently under Dory Funk Jr and the first thing taught there is how to roll. Alot of trainees think they need to learn how to "get slammed" first, but that's meaningless if you dont know how to save your own damn neck if/when something goes wrong.
While listening and rubbing themselves, the Cucamonga kids say, “This can’t be how it went…what we do now is how it’s ALWAYS been!” 🤦🏼♂️
just how bad today wrestling is that today nobody think wrestling is real and before many people were thinking wrestling is real, including me when I start watching.
The original Dutch Mantell ("The Lon Chaney of Wrestling") used his pro wrestling success as a stepping stone to Hollywood: "......from 1913 to 1915, he appeared in director Michael Sennett's Keystone Cops - a series of silent comedies - in Hollywood.".
you JUST said it Jim "Up until 25 years ago"....Thats a LONG time ago. those REAL sports you named look WAY different now . Football is all about passing/Basketball all about the 3 point shot, Baseball homeruns and little else.Stuff changes in 25 years
Everything Jim talks about isn’t mutually exclusive to wrestling because as you’ve said football is softer all about passing defense can’t be played so stats are inflated majorly, basketball curry ruined the 3 ball and now nobody has a set position around the 3-5 because centers want to shoot 3s and and you couldn’t guard anyone without a foul call all the way back in 2008 and idk baseball that much but I’m sure that’s changed for the worse too what’s terrible about all 3 of the sports I’ve mentioned is people have been conditioned to like it because if there’s anything James harden has taught is you can flop and get a foul call if they allow you to and people condition to want to get fouls the same way. It’s cause and effect
@@subxzero10000 it's a mixed bag. some for worse, some better. I don't love NBA teams shooting 45 3s a game but I remember 1980s games final score 75 to 67. that wasn't fun to watch
@@travissmith6380 but it was real because for better or worse those people were really playing sports to feed their families nowadays the kids that get drafted are already halfway rich and I was just telling my friend this the other day the real fans have been priced out along time ago
"Fans" and the dirt sheet British bloggers ruined wrestling
If Jim offered a wrestling history and education course, I would pay to go. If he could get Bill Watts and Bill Dundee to join him in teaching a class on booking wrestling cards, I would pay to attend.
Oh yeah, Jim's so "behind the times" that he remembers a time where working hard, having respect and a strong work ethic actually meant something.
@@NhBleker Stop whining. You lack discipline.
I agree with this.
When it comes to wins and losses people seem to think they don't matter because of The Rock, but he's the exception that proves the rule.
The finish is what's most important. Even in a loss or a win. A babyface can look great in a loss or a win. A good booker and good workers know how to accomplish that.
Case in point: Austin vs. Bret. Remembered as one of the more legendary feuds (despite it only lasting about 8-9 months). Beyond the obvious that both guys were excellent workers, their two marquee matches at Survivor Series and WM had great finishes. Austin lost both matches, but got more over as a a result. Even Steve says as much.
SS96 the veteran Bret pulled a Hail Mary reversal to pin Austin, despite Austin dominating most of the match. It's simple, subtle psychology. Austin lost but the way both guys sold it, he looked the stronger of the two (Bret looked and was gassed).
WM 13 obviously is arguably the greatest match/finish in WWF history, no need to go crazy. But they worked that match like a fight, with Austin fighting from underneath and Bret being vicious. Helped sell the double-turn.
“SZ Rassin School” idk I think Sami Zayn would run a good school if he opened one 🤷🏽♂️👍🏽
We need to return to the classic wrestling of the NWA ( mainly St. LOUIS ERA)
100% truth
Today we have cartoon wrestling
And figs, if you watch NXT you'd think it was all about figs.
'Rant and rave for a couple of minutes!'
Video is 25 minutes long 😂😂 love that
Basketball evolved a LOT. Seriously, the game was a lot slower paced and a lot of the modern rules like the shot clock and the three point line didn't exist. It's not fair to use it as an example.
But here’s the thing, the NBA first used a shot clock in 1954 and the 3 point line first was tested as far back as 1945 and was used full time by the ABA prior to it’s merger with the NBA and the NBA has used it for the first time in the 1979-80 season, so over 40 years of continual use with only a few tweaks over the years. The main differences of Pro basketball today compared to back then are better training and better technology for both what the players wear (shoes for example), and the courts themselves (like using polycarbonate backboards which are much stronger than glass and don’t shatter like glass does)
@@stigrabbid589 Agreed, but he was saying Basketball didn't evolve yet it did. Naismith's game is nothing like what we have now.
Regardless, I do agree with Jim's main point. He just shouldn't have mentioned basketball.
And you forgot they were once allowed to play defense
@@maryheim-hancock8625 banning zone defense was just dumb.
He makes the old ways sound so cool. Imagine aew and wwe if this was still the case today. It sounds almost like one of the old men’s clubs based on the local unions that are so few and far between now.
Modern wrestling they don’t know how to throw a punch and they have alot of wasted movement in the ring. They don’t always move with intention and you can tell as the audience. Also there’s to many egos in the product today. No one wants to sacrifice their time to get someone else over. For example there is no Bobby Heenan in todays wrestling.
I could listen to Cornette tell his stories all day long.
I always thought it was BS when JR would always say wins and losses dont matter. Stonecold and the Rock could not have come out and lost every week. And one of the reasons cena was hated is because some felt he won too much. Myself included. Roman Reigns hasnt lost in 2 years. If wins and loses dont matter lets just have roman get beat every week and see how over he is after
Jim’s argument against sports having to evolve is completely false. Literally all the sports he mentioned evolved or are dying because they aren’t evolving. Baseball is dying because of its inability to revolve. Basketball’s entire style of play is completely different to what it was since it’s inception and even 10 years ago. And now it’s at its most successful position.Football has become more offense oriented over the past years and it’s still garnering much success. Just because wrestling isn’t as successful as it was back in the 80s doesn’t mean that it wasn’t going to evolve.
If it’s less successful, it’s devolved, not evolved
Masterclass.
Holy shit Jim mentioned mike mondo
I used to laugh at professional wrestling, even once I became a fan who watched it on purpose, until I serious injuries, sometimes firsthand in person, often live regardless live, again, and again. Professional wrestling wasn't inherently humorous to me anymore. Then I did some ring training. Even the "bumps that surprisingly didn't hurt at all I found myself have a greater amount of respect for. I knew they very well could if the guy I was working with wasn't my friend.
We are starting a Tough man circuit in the Mobile, Al/ P’cola, Fl area! Comment here or message for more information
The Internet + MMA = Wrestling never going back to the “Good old days.”
@@NhBleker No.
@@NhBleker pretty a lot of people knew it was a work, still people nowadays don't want to be told how fake everything is
@@NhBleker Exactly. That stuff worked in the territories because of how stupid and/or gullible people in the South generally were/are (I say this as a Southerner myself)
Could treat wrestling in a similar manner to movies. A great movie makes me slip from one reality into another. Great wrestling did the same thing. You were transported to that world for a while. You can no never go back to how it was 30 years ago but you can make it legit enough for people to get invested.
The basic tenet should be that those who work in wrestling should treat it like a real competition. If they don't care, the fans don't care.
Some guys are better wrestlers than others, but being a great worker is quite different than simply a great in-ring wrestler. Part of being a great worker is conveying real emotion, body language and psychology. Not just great chain holds, high spots or whatever.
Jim gets to the heart of the matter on a lot of different points. You can't say a person is 'out of touch' when the business isn't doing nearly the business it was 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 40 years ago, etc. and has driven away fans, created lapsed fans and isn't creating new fans. It's the modern wrestling diehard supporter that just doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about.
I remember when wrestling schools would refuse to teach the hardcore stuff. Even The Shiek demanded that guys like Sabu and RVD work solely on the fundamentals when they were going thru training. They can always learn the hardcore stuff elsewhere.
And while I'm a mark for 90's Japan, particularly the AJPW stuff and Misawa, Kobashi, Kawada, Taue, etc...there's that idea that permeates wrestling schools that they can just do the same moves and it will be just as good. It took years of training and matches to do the things that those guys did and make it look like a million dollars and have those 5 star matches that hold up today. It's not even about executing spots crisply. It's the timing, the selling, the transitions, pacing, filling time and overall psychology to build the fans up to a crescendo then bring them down to only build them up to another crescendo., knowing when and how to finish a match. Today's wrestlers just see the cool moves and false finishes and think that's what brings the fans back wanting more. And what they don't realize is guys like Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi would scale back if they had to do it over again.
It's like somebody trying to copy Barry Bonds' swing from an aesthetic standpoint and only hitting .200
Where are the Briscos..... Damn I miss them
It used to be taught how to THINK about what you do. Now, it’s only taught to DON’T think, just do. Society doesn’t want thinkers and it never really did. Therein lies the problem.
The thing that Corny needs to comprehend is that the problems that plague modern wrestling are not limited just to wrestling. The same problem plagues virtually all industries across the board. Consider the great architecture of the Middle Ages and compare it to modern architecture. You’ll find the modern to be inferior in every way. There is no artistry in modern architecture, whereas the prior architecture spews it at literally every corner. Look at any industry and you will find the same problem. Consider all of your household appliances and electronics compared with the same from a time before “planned obsolescence” was a thing. Consider the current state of lackluster and unimaginative modern music and filmmaking? And while it’s probably the most appropriate example of a subject to compare in this discussion, it’s probably best to just not get me started on modern art. You know, that crap where some douche paints a red strip across a white canvas and it sells for hundreds of thousands of dollars? Da Vinci would roll over in his grave. Why do you suppose it’s the artists and philosophers who are usually considered to be the most enlightened group in any society (and also the most ostracized)? The current dilapidated state of everything is all the result of the dumbing down of society. When anything gets dumbed down, artistry is the first thing to go out the window. We’re currently at that point with society as a whole, so just sit back, enjoy, and have a good laugh, while watching a system that no longer serves us slowly crash and burn. It’s just where we are as a society, and rightly so. After all, we ALL created it.
Ember Moon or Athena and whatnot came from Booker T's training. She is actually adept at the so called strong style but given her height, center of gravity really isn't one for the high spots and also her finish move doesnt speak to her talent. Calling her satchel ass or breaking her down does no good. Look for what is and elevate that. With her build a brawler, like Austin after the neck injury or like a girl version of Rhyno. That would allow her to be. Having to adapt to the aew flipping flopping fucking style will lead to injuries as we have already seen.
The marks are in the ring, but I must say the Audience are still marks as well to real true old school fans
Marko Spunk is a classically trained wrestler
For what little it's worth, I'm so glad that my brother's friend (the most successful pro wrestler in my extended circle of friends and family) went to a real school and had a real teacher taught by an actual wrestler... I mean, say what you want about Mikey Whipwreck but the man definitely knew how to bump :P . And at least THAT show didn't have too much craziness (though one guy did tell my stepdad, 'excuse me' as he climbed on top a deactivated video game cabinet next to his spot ringside, to do a cross-body off of. But it was a safe catch by the other wrestlers in the ring, I remember!).
Interestingly for some reason, the Indy background in the WWE story mode basically appoints Reality of Wrestling by Booker T as the school the story character was trained at. And who's identified as a fellow trainee? Ember Moon. Which is totally true by what I can see. (I don't blame Booker or his employees though for all the stiff insanity; I don't remember her going this stiff in NXT and the WWE main roster. I get the feeling that AEW just lets the wrestlers go HAM if they want.)
When I hear "working stiff" I think AJPW.
This really was tremendous in pointing out why todays wrestlers just give 0 fucks and are sloppy