While as a hobbyist who almost only makes knives for himself I'm happy with hot stamping. That aside, the big benefit of lasers that I like is that (as per the video) they can etch a wide variety of materials. I've seen a maker who uses a laser to etch a pattern into the welted edge of a leather sheath. Could be done by hand but the accuracy and speed of lasers is a winner. Pretty impressive. Thanks for the vid. Sharp blades all.
Thanks David! I agree - it depends what you want out of this device. Speed and precision is one of the few reasons I’d consider a laser but other than that, hot stamping is still my preferred method (purely the looks).
What is your experience with this particlar model, does it give anz depth to the laser engraving on hardened steel? Or it can be worn off with kydex scratches for example?
A different set-up and a lot more expensive but diode lasers are the best method for laser hardening steel. You can get much more power out of a CO2 laser for cutting, get far more precision with a YAG pumped laser. However the wave lengths you can get and the spread out beam of a diode laser is ideal for hardening steel. Well done again Vinz. Another interesting video. I’d never put much thought into how maker marks are made.
Hey Tom good evening! Thanks for the interesting response - I know very little about lasers so this was also a fun test for me! As you may have also seen on Tobias’ comment here, he suggested for it for punching holes and cutting leather sheets, and also others shouted out it could be used for etching Kydex sheaths too so could prove ro be more useful than what I orioles thought it to be! I wonder what a more powerful laser would do…
Useful bit of kit, kind of expensive for some models but I don't know how that translates into time saved versus accuracy and versatility. nice chunk of discount though ...good one guys.
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah some can be more pricey but it’s horses for courses. This one I used from Ortur is surprisingly very good, I wasn’t expecting anything for its price point compared to other lasers but it performs extremely well!
Great question. I found that using a “Dry Moly Spray” enhances its durability (please don’t ask me why hahaha) so I’d suggest to get one. They are cheap £16 (no need to buy the £80 tins, they work equally good).
@@UKBladeshow What you are actually doing using a moly spray is that the blue diode laser beam burns a carbon deposit ( from the burned dry moly) ONTO the metal and some INTO the pores of the steel....its not an engraving as there's no metal removed. It does not last like an actual hot stamp or acid etch or fiber laser engraving does. If you use it on a carbon knife the patina that comes after using the knife for a while will hide the mark . There are high end products for laser marking on metals like Cermark.....what happens there is that a small particle ceramic powder solution in a spraycan will melt and adhere onto your metal. That would allready last longer...but also at a much higher price. How dry moly spray compares to laser marking sprays you can see here ruclips.net/video/4RmFgcET3Jo/видео.html
@@tobiashangler Absolutely I am sure it would, the burn is hot enough and should be fine enough not to set fire to the leather so with the right software it would be an awesome tool, if you got used to it you could probably use it on Kydex and possibly carbon fibre too
Its a blue laser......the mark wil only be superficial discoloring and rub off after a few weeks of usage...promised. I bought a infrared module do do all my metal engraving.....it actually cuts into the metals. Still not very deep , but it cannot be rubbed of. What you could do with a blue diode laser is to first cover the to be marked metal with some spraypaint. Then cut/engrave your pattern or mark in that paint ( resist) and than acid etch. The paint just protects the steel from the acid to be eaten where the laser did not remove the paint. You could etch any pattern you like that way.
It’s it so much the wavelength that’s important (though that affects how well it’s absorbed by steel) but the power of the laser and how much they heat up the steel. Ultraviolet is actually much more easily absorbed by steel and therefore more efficient than infrared (unless you paint it black first) but an infrared CO2 laser generally has enough power to melt and sputter the surface away. A diode laser tends to have lower power and a less focussed beam so it’ll struggle to sputter the surface. That all said you;re dead right about the mark of a blue laser being less durable. It creates a thin oxide layer that can get scrapped off.
@@GemAppleTom I tried a lot of metals using a 20 watt blue diode.....at best it leaves a mark on stainless when you first spray some non reflective black paint on the surface. You can feel the surface is marked only very slightly using your fingernail. On carbon steel its like you say just oxidation/discoloration....not permanent at al , i think it could be removed even when scratching it with a fingernail or by washing it a dozen times with a sponge. It ( blue diode laser) does nothing on other metals. I then bought a 1064 nanometer module and use that module on the same frame i am using the blue diode on. That 1064 nanometer module does leave a permanent mark , and it does that on all metals that i tried ( stainless, brass, copper , titanium, aluminium , carbon steel , nickel silver.) But even with such a laser its still not very deep...i am thinking 5 to 10/100 of a mm will be maximum. If people want to get good deep markings/engravings on any metal they should invest in a real fiber laser ( 20w,30w,50w). Thats a big/expensive investment for any amateur knifemaker just to mark their knives. A stamp makersmark or electro etch will do fine mostly.
@@HoutmeyersP Sounds like you’ve put a lot of work into it. I think I know why the diode laser does less well than the infrared one even though they report the same power. Does the manufacturer give a spot size for both lasers? Prediction: the infrared will have a smaller spot size I.e. a more focused beam. Would be interesting to know if I’m right if you’ve got the time. And probably good for me to eat humble pie if I’m wrong…
@@GemAppleTom The infrared laser module spot size is indeed smaller ( 0.03mm circular 1064nm ) compared to the blue diode module ( 0.08 / 0.1mm rectangular spot at 450nm). But the output on the infrared module is only 2 watt....were the output on the blue diode module is 20 watt ( it a 4x6watt diode stack). Wavelenght and pulse energy are also a deciding factor. The 1064 module uses 20.000hz.....the manufacture that makes both blue and infrared modules states that the infrared has 6x more pulse energy compared to the blue diode. I am no expert but i think just for engraving/marking metals dont bother buying a blue diode laser. A blue diode laser however does work fine for cutting/engraving leather (sheath making) or cutting wood......thats a task a infrared laser does not do well
and another I had no notification for, and for me this method is the total antithesis of what I am trying to learn, this sort of thing has a negative impact on the craft of hand making items, if someone gave me one it would be up for sale very quickly and not even leave the box, as machine cut blanks, machined blades and such this is not bladesmithing or hand made as far as I am concerned but each to their own
I can think of better and more important things than blowing $750+ on one of these especially considering there are cheaper more powerful alternatives available here in the UK.
Thanks for your feedback Jason. It’s definitely not for everyone and it depends on your priorities and circumstances as a maker. Lasers aren’t anywhere as cheap as an acid-etching kit for sure, but it does have its own purpose.
While as a hobbyist who almost only makes knives for himself I'm happy with hot stamping. That aside, the big benefit of lasers that I like is that (as per the video) they can etch a wide variety of materials. I've seen a maker who uses a laser to etch a pattern into the welted edge of a leather sheath. Could be done by hand but the accuracy and speed of lasers is a winner. Pretty impressive. Thanks for the vid. Sharp blades all.
Thanks David! I agree - it depends what you want out of this device. Speed and precision is one of the few reasons I’d consider a laser but other than that, hot stamping is still my preferred method (purely the looks).
I was thinking how cool it would be to add my mark to leather or Kydex sheaths as well!
What is your experience with this particlar model, does it give anz depth to the laser engraving on hardened steel? Or it can be worn off with kydex scratches for example?
A different set-up and a lot more expensive but diode lasers are the best method for laser hardening steel.
You can get much more power out of a CO2 laser for cutting, get far more precision with a YAG pumped laser. However the wave lengths you can get and the spread out beam of a diode laser is ideal for hardening steel.
Well done again Vinz. Another interesting video. I’d never put much thought into how maker marks are made.
Hey Tom good evening! Thanks for the interesting response - I know very little about lasers so this was also a fun test for me! As you may have also seen on Tobias’ comment here, he suggested for it for punching holes and cutting leather sheets, and also others shouted out it could be used for etching Kydex sheaths too so could prove ro be more useful than what I orioles thought it to be! I wonder what a more powerful laser would do…
Useful bit of kit, kind of expensive for some models but I don't know how that translates into time saved versus accuracy and versatility. nice chunk of discount though ...good one guys.
Thanks for the feedback! Yeah some can be more pricey but it’s horses for courses. This one I used from Ortur is surprisingly very good, I wasn’t expecting anything for its price point compared to other lasers but it performs extremely well!
@@UKBladeshow I wish I had the money to play around with this idea and 3d printing, the possibilities are amazing
What about the durability of the laser-made stamp on steel? It is easy to for example to leave a scratch on the mark by scraping it with a fingernail?
Great question. I found that using a “Dry Moly Spray” enhances its durability (please don’t ask me why hahaha) so I’d suggest to get one. They are cheap £16 (no need to buy the £80 tins, they work equally good).
@@UKBladeshow What you are actually doing using a moly spray is that the blue diode laser beam burns a carbon deposit ( from the burned dry moly) ONTO the metal and some INTO the pores of the steel....its not an engraving as there's no metal removed. It does not last like an actual hot stamp or acid etch or fiber laser engraving does. If you use it on a carbon knife the patina that comes after using the knife for a while will hide the mark . There are high end products for laser marking on metals like Cermark.....what happens there is that a small particle ceramic powder solution in a spraycan will melt and adhere onto your metal. That would allready last longer...but also at a much higher price. How dry moly spray compares to laser marking sprays you can see here ruclips.net/video/4RmFgcET3Jo/видео.html
is that a cuttlebrook blade i see there
Great eye mate - yes it is!
Cutting out leather sheaths for production knives?
That could work, it would leave an interesting edge on the leather too
@@TalRohan it would be really cool if you could also do the holes for sewing, that would safe a ton of time!
Great point on leather Tobias - thanks for the idea! 💡
@@tobiashangler Absolutely I am sure it would, the burn is hot enough and should be fine enough not to set fire to the leather so with the right software it would be an awesome tool, if you got used to it you could probably use it on Kydex and possibly carbon fibre too
Its a blue laser......the mark wil only be superficial discoloring and rub off after a few weeks of usage...promised. I bought a infrared module do do all my metal engraving.....it actually cuts into the metals. Still not very deep , but it cannot be rubbed of. What you could do with a blue diode laser is to first cover the to be marked metal with some spraypaint. Then cut/engrave your pattern or mark in that paint ( resist) and than acid etch. The paint just protects the steel from the acid to be eaten where the laser did not remove the paint. You could etch any pattern you like that way.
Thanks for the tip. I did use a Dry Moly spray and it did provide better etching for sure.
It’s it so much the wavelength that’s important (though that affects how well it’s absorbed by steel) but the power of the laser and how much they heat up the steel.
Ultraviolet is actually much more easily absorbed by steel and therefore more efficient than infrared (unless you paint it black first) but an infrared CO2 laser generally has enough power to melt and sputter the surface away. A diode laser tends to have lower power and a less focussed beam so it’ll struggle to sputter the surface.
That all said you;re dead right about the mark of a blue laser being less durable. It creates a thin oxide layer that can get scrapped off.
@@GemAppleTom I tried a lot of metals using a 20 watt blue diode.....at best it leaves a mark on stainless when you first spray some non reflective black paint on the surface. You can feel the surface is marked only very slightly using your fingernail. On carbon steel its like you say just oxidation/discoloration....not permanent at al , i think it could be removed even when scratching it with a fingernail or by washing it a dozen times with a sponge. It ( blue diode laser) does nothing on other metals. I then bought a 1064 nanometer module and use that module on the same frame i am using the blue diode on. That 1064 nanometer module does leave a permanent mark , and it does that on all metals that i tried ( stainless, brass, copper , titanium, aluminium , carbon steel , nickel silver.) But even with such a laser its still not very deep...i am thinking 5 to 10/100 of a mm will be maximum. If people want to get good deep markings/engravings on any metal they should invest in a real fiber laser ( 20w,30w,50w). Thats a big/expensive investment for any amateur knifemaker just to mark their knives. A stamp makersmark or electro etch will do fine mostly.
@@HoutmeyersP Sounds like you’ve put a lot of work into it.
I think I know why the diode laser does less well than the infrared one even though they report the same power. Does the manufacturer give a spot size for both lasers?
Prediction: the infrared will have a smaller spot size I.e. a more focused beam.
Would be interesting to know if I’m right if you’ve got the time. And probably good for me to eat humble pie if I’m wrong…
@@GemAppleTom The infrared laser module spot size is indeed smaller ( 0.03mm circular 1064nm ) compared to the blue diode module ( 0.08 / 0.1mm rectangular spot at 450nm). But the output on the infrared module is only 2 watt....were the output on the blue diode module is 20 watt ( it a 4x6watt diode stack). Wavelenght and pulse energy are also a deciding factor. The 1064 module uses 20.000hz.....the manufacture that makes both blue and infrared modules states that the infrared has 6x more pulse energy compared to the blue diode. I am no expert but i think just for engraving/marking metals dont bother buying a blue diode laser. A blue diode laser however does work fine for cutting/engraving leather (sheath making) or cutting wood......thats a task a infrared laser does not do well
I prefer the old school methods.
Thanks for your feedback.
There is beauty in history and tradition. I like seeing how things can be done with technology, too.
and another I had no notification for, and for me this method is the total antithesis of what I am trying to learn, this sort of thing has a negative impact on the craft of hand making items, if someone gave me one it would be up for sale very quickly and not even leave the box, as machine cut blanks, machined blades and such this is not bladesmithing or hand made as far as I am concerned but each to their own
I can think of better and more important things than blowing $750+ on one of these especially considering there are cheaper more powerful alternatives available here in the UK.
Thanks for your feedback Jason. It’s definitely not for everyone and it depends on your priorities and circumstances as a maker. Lasers aren’t anywhere as cheap as an acid-etching kit for sure, but it does have its own purpose.