Hey hey! Good to see this video finally posted. First of all, THANK YOU for the time / money invested in this so far. We always appreciate that. I thought I'd dive into some of the topics in the video. First of all, our attitude to RUclipsrs has always been WYSIWYG and send products out to the strongest critics. We don't give frames or wheels for RUclipsrs any special treatment and they get pulled off the shelf in the warehouse just like any customer order would be. 1) The facing: I think the criticism was fair that the facing was "middle of the road." However, middle-of-the-road isn't where we want to be. We've already passed this on to the production department. On future production runs they'll be more strict on the amount of carbon that is near these mounting surfaces. 2) Geometry. We approached this frame thinking most riders would be coming from a road bike background, and wanted something that handled in a familiar manner to their road bike. There's a bit of a moving goalpost in terms of not knowing what size tires the rider is gonna use. The difference in fork trail between a 32C and a 50C tire is quite a lot, but the chainstay length doesn't change, so trying to balance the front/rear handling of the bike across all tire sizes is impossible. As you rightfully pointed out in your video, one man's twitchy is another man's agile. Personally I think with a wider gravel bar the handling is on the 'agile' side. But again... it's subjective. So, we say watch more RUclipsr's videos before making a decision (Ideally from someone the same height riding the same size frame as you.) 3) Fork & Steerer. Yeah, you pretty much covered our view on this in your video. The thinking behind the decision is that if a customer is running fully internal, that part of the steerer will not be reinforced. Therefore we design the fork to handle the stresses with that area reinforced. If we offered an "extra reinforcement" for those running external cable routing, it wouldn't be showing much confidence in our engineering. We're not fundamentally against the idea, we just want to be careful to not send the wrong message to those who are running fully internal. 4) Chainslap. You're right on this one. Extra protection never hurt anyone. We'll also add some in-the-box protection in future runs. Of all the test bikes we ever built ourselves, the only ones with visible damage to the chainstay is one running a long-cage Sensah GRX mech (that has no clutch.) Lots of variables on this one obviously, chain length, rear mech, chainring size, etc. If in doubt, do as you did and put on some helicopter tape.
I know I'm several months late to the party, but thanks for taking the time to address issues brought up in the video Joe. With the "twitchy/agile" thing, I was actually thinking about doing some consolidating and selling my old CX/commuter/gravel/adventure bike along with my road bike, and getting a gravel bike that I can swap out wheelsets depending if I'm doing a fast group ride or going off-road with bike bags. With the handling, it sounds like this frame could strike a good balance, or is it too many compromises to split those two situations?
Solid review. Most reviews of this frame I’ve seen really don’t talk about all the issues. They simply focus on its price. To be fair, for those thinking only something in this price point can have issues, don’t. I’ve owned two $2500+ frames that both needed work to get things flat and happy. Both from very large reputable companies. My worry for this frame though is warranty. Maybe in your next full review you can talk about their warranty and how it is communicating with them. I’m a huge proponent of buying as much as I can, especially big purchases, from my local bike shop. Not only does that make for a better relationship, it also means I can get help whenever I need it. I’m wondering if you buy this frame and have serious problems what that will be like. Cheers.
Really good points about the facings. People who only ever bought factory built up bikes wouldn’t be aware of this. The disc brakes has made it even more challenging
Fantastic review of a brand I’ve been looking at very closely. I’m after a gravel bike as I already have an SL-6 S-Works Tarmac for the road. The prices for new S-Works frames has become utterly absurd.
There was a little Joey in her pouch as well! Kangaroos are cute as hell but man they’re a liability when you ride. I’ve had one t-bone me and have near misses quite regularly 😂
Thank you very much for your detailed review. I appreciate the description of the finish of the frame and explaining really important issues with steerer tube design. I've got ringbarked steerer tube on my current gravel bike so I'm looking for a well designed and well manufactured frame without internal cables inside steerer tube. I think I'm going to stop myself from buying this frame...
omg nom chompsky is a fantastic name! You might wanna start saving up for those tools. The Cyclus brake mount tools is over $4k and the Silva tools used on the headset and BB are a few grand each as well.
Hi! I would love to see a video on riding from Adelaide to Murray Bridge, or if you don't feel like dedicating a whole video, a strava recording. I would love to see this route actually done and it would lay the foundation for my own riding. Idea for your next trip!
uh oh ... I have one on order but will build it as an all-road bike with 32C. Thanks for raising the issues on the stuff that other reviewers either missed or glossed over.
Not a problem Hansen, glad to give you some handy information. You should still definitely be excited about your upcoming build! Get the thing built up well from day 1 and you'll have a lot of fun with it.
@@JustRideAdelaide what can you say about using a 50-34 crankset on it considering they put the limit at 47t … should be solved by a chain catcher if the issue is potential dropped chain getting wedged between the big ring and chainstay no?
@@hansendy3708 I think your issue might be the chainstay clearance of the 50t cog. It might be quite close to having the teeth bite into the chainstay because of how it sweeps out. You may night find out until you're trying to build it.
@@JustRideAdelaide They managed to put a 50-34 crankset on their sample G2 bikepacking rig (on the G2 launch video and website) just fine, tho the presentor did say that do so at your own risk - so I think it clears the chainstay unless the chain is dropped. Otoh might be easier to just buy a proper rb frame like a caad13 or allez lol
I had issues with my T1500D frame about that D shape steerer. The wedge they provide you is to short, so my stem tended to move a bit during big sprints (by pulling hard on the handle bar) and i ended up with play in the head set. So i asked to my Winspace dealer to give a second wedge to put it just underneath the first one. Problem solved !
I think the R&D is insufficient given the chainstay and steerer tube issues. Makes me wonder if the twitchy handling may not be designed into the frame, but a byproduct of poor design. Good , honest review as always.
Thanks Andrew! I really find this frame fascinating. A very interesting mixture of great spec decisions with unusual application. I think the price makes it a very good option on balance, you just can't get much else for so little. Still, some of the design choices are odd
@Ride Adelaide The expander plug in your video is completely different than the one I got with my g2 frame set. Same goes for other youtube reviews I’ve seen. Was your expander plug long enough to support one or both stem bolts? The expander I received has a centered(not offset) stem top cap, then a spring that sits below it, then 2 piece wedge. It looks like the expanding wedge piece would only be able to provide support for one of the stem bolts or sit between them both if playing with the position of the wedge utilizing spacers below the top cap. I’m not sure how I feel about the design of this one as the top cap bolt would be relied upon for expanding the wedge as well as providing preload for the headset.
update for me on my g2 steerer expander setup: I asked winspace to provide me the full length expander plug, which they sent me. I then took the half length aluminum spacer(allows for internal routing) that fills the void of the D shape steerer tube between the tube and the stem to a machine shop and had the machinist make me a full length version of it including a lip at the top. This way I have the full height of the stem supported both by the full height spacer and full height expander plug. No internal routing for me which I never intended to use anyway. I've been running this setup without issues 2000+ miles.
Excellent video as always. Great fabrication skill by whoever made that long wedge out of the cut portion of steerer tube! Agreed, this is better than the supplied part. It's a no brainer. I am considering this frame {actually the Light Bicycle Journey, its identical} & I am 175cm tall or 5'9" which is right between sizes. I am of normal build, not long legged or anything. Would the small frame be a better choice? I always ride medium bikes but this may be the exception. Thank you for any advice you may have!
I am currently looking for a Gravel frame I am basically hesiting between winspace g2 and carbonda cfr696. Thank you a lot for your video, it's the best "review" I watch so far on RUclips! When do you think, you willl release your final review?
If you’re looking to get another video out of this project, may I suggest you send this frame to Raoul Luescher for independent evaluation of manufacturing quality. He has found examples of problems in practically every major brand. See in particular, his Bianchi Arcadex video, which may be an example of a defect - or assembly error.
Seems to me this is trying to hit the gravel fondo market, e.g Unbound/Dirty Kanza, where 700c 38-42mm tyres, low bb, race geomtry and fully aero cockpit with internal cable routing is the thing.
Hopefully they make another model with no internal routing thru the steerer, that threw me off when I saw that. I was so excited to get one, pretty bummed.
Probably a daft question, but yhe headset comes with the frame? Im about to pull the trigger on a G2 next month and trying to sort all the components i need for it. Thanks
How good is carbon for a very heavy rider + bags for bikepacking and long distance abusive offroad/allroad cycling? I've been looking at titanium bike frames recently, but somehow carbon ones still seem tempting.
If I were to use internal routing for the steerer, how does that solve the problem? I.e - what would be there to fill the void? (other than the cable/hose) I'm new to custom builds - I'm considering having one built by a pro, but I'd like to understand as much as I can
Did you base your sizing mostly of top tube length? Basically wondering, if I normally run 540mm top tube, should I get a small 542mm - seems like many people have mostly matched this spec.
Great review. Was thinking about this frame til I saw that steerer. Not a fan. Should these steerer routed designs go away, or does the tech just need time to mature and improve?
I think they would be safer if the steerer were aluminium and the fork carbon, but that involves manufacturing complexity so I guess they won’t do it. I have an aluminium/CF fork and it uses a star nut in place of a expander plug. Never have to worry about a cracked steerer.
@@davidgarza2267 yes. I’ve heard this many times. I think there are ways to mitigate this. On my fork, the aluminium is quite overbuilt compared to a carbon fork and the carbon is bonded to it with a clear resin, finished with clear laquer. If there’s delamination you can catch it earlier. It is definitely not a super lightweight fork, but it’s rim brake, so bike wheels have some weight savings.
5:56 just like some of the carbon steertube expander which is only 20mm long colnago deda and some other manufacturer made some 70mm long to made a fully support
Will this bike really fit a 700c 50mm tire with a front derailleur like a Shimano DI2 or GRX DI2? I have a frame with a similar chainstay length and the front derailleur, specifically an Ultegra Shimano DI2, prevents a larger tire from fitting as the tire hits the FD.
I've seen that listing and largely ignored it for simplicity 😂 The complex relationship between brands and factories can do your head in! I did note with some interest that Winspace seems to be a little cheaper
I've seen a video where they (winspace) claim to have sought the help of an ex cervelo employee in the design of this frame. I've had a few cervelo's and 2 of the 3 were replaced under warranty....each of which would of been outside of a Winspace warranty window.
It's listed as 2.0" and going 650b fundamentally speeds up the handling and drops the whole bike down closer to the ground. I don't really think either of those things are necessary given how sharp the bike already is, and 700x50 is a brilliant tyre size
no way I want a bike with that sort of steerer tube to ride down a mountain on whilst carrying luggage...shows that aping fashion is more important than safety and longevity. I'm out. The fact they have a warranty less than a handful of years scares me off.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
Hey hey! Good to see this video finally posted. First of all, THANK YOU for the time / money invested in this so far. We always appreciate that. I thought I'd dive into some of the topics in the video. First of all, our attitude to RUclipsrs has always been WYSIWYG and send products out to the strongest critics. We don't give frames or wheels for RUclipsrs any special treatment and they get pulled off the shelf in the warehouse just like any customer order would be. 1) The facing: I think the criticism was fair that the facing was "middle of the road." However, middle-of-the-road isn't where we want to be. We've already passed this on to the production department. On future production runs they'll be more strict on the amount of carbon that is near these mounting surfaces. 2) Geometry. We approached this frame thinking most riders would be coming from a road bike background, and wanted something that handled in a familiar manner to their road bike. There's a bit of a moving goalpost in terms of not knowing what size tires the rider is gonna use. The difference in fork trail between a 32C and a 50C tire is quite a lot, but the chainstay length doesn't change, so trying to balance the front/rear handling of the bike across all tire sizes is impossible. As you rightfully pointed out in your video, one man's twitchy is another man's agile. Personally I think with a wider gravel bar the handling is on the 'agile' side. But again... it's subjective. So, we say watch more RUclipsr's videos before making a decision (Ideally from someone the same height riding the same size frame as you.) 3) Fork & Steerer. Yeah, you pretty much covered our view on this in your video. The thinking behind the decision is that if a customer is running fully internal, that part of the steerer will not be reinforced. Therefore we design the fork to handle the stresses with that area reinforced. If we offered an "extra reinforcement" for those running external cable routing, it wouldn't be showing much confidence in our engineering. We're not fundamentally against the idea, we just want to be careful to not send the wrong message to those who are running fully internal. 4) Chainslap. You're right on this one. Extra protection never hurt anyone. We'll also add some in-the-box protection in future runs. Of all the test bikes we ever built ourselves, the only ones with visible damage to the chainstay is one running a long-cage Sensah GRX mech (that has no clutch.) Lots of variables on this one obviously, chain length, rear mech, chainring size, etc. If in doubt, do as you did and put on some helicopter tape.
Cheers for your response team, I'll pin it so people can check it out
I know I'm several months late to the party, but thanks for taking the time to address issues brought up in the video Joe. With the "twitchy/agile" thing, I was actually thinking about doing some consolidating and selling my old CX/commuter/gravel/adventure bike along with my road bike, and getting a gravel bike that I can swap out wheelsets depending if I'm doing a fast group ride or going off-road with bike bags. With the handling, it sounds like this frame could strike a good balance, or is it too many compromises to split those two situations?
Solid review. Most reviews of this frame I’ve seen really don’t talk about all the issues. They simply focus on its price. To be fair, for those thinking only something in this price point can have issues, don’t. I’ve owned two $2500+ frames that both needed work to get things flat and happy. Both from very large reputable companies. My worry for this frame though is warranty. Maybe in your next full review you can talk about their warranty and how it is communicating with them. I’m a huge proponent of buying as much as I can, especially big purchases, from my local bike shop. Not only does that make for a better relationship, it also means I can get help whenever I need it. I’m wondering if you buy this frame and have serious problems what that will be like. Cheers.
Really good points about the facings. People who only ever bought factory built up bikes wouldn’t be aware of this. The disc brakes has made it even more challenging
This is by far the most informative review I've ever seen, of any frame. I'd love to see you review other Chinese frames (especially open moulds).
Thanks, very good points that apply to all bikes. Love the small kangaroo on the beautiful trail.
Fantastic review of a brand I’ve been looking at very closely. I’m after a gravel bike as I already have an SL-6 S-Works Tarmac for the road. The prices for new S-Works frames has become utterly absurd.
Thank you very much!! One of the better reviews of this frameset! Looking forward to your full review.
Watching from Canada, the Wallabi casually hopping by on the trail made my day haha.
There was a little Joey in her pouch as well! Kangaroos are cute as hell but man they’re a liability when you ride. I’ve had one t-bone me and have near misses quite regularly 😂
@@JustRideAdelaide haha I bet! I’ve ran into deers a bunch of times and they’re impredictable as heck too!
Thank you very much for your detailed review. I appreciate the description of the finish of the frame and explaining really important issues with steerer tube design. I've got ringbarked steerer tube on my current gravel bike so I'm looking for a well designed and well manufactured frame without internal cables inside steerer tube. I think I'm going to stop myself from buying this frame...
You have some real knowledgeable mechanics!
This is an excellent technical review and I appreciate your effort! Now I want a facing tool to round out (flatten?) my home mechanic kit...
omg nom chompsky is a fantastic name! You might wanna start saving up for those tools. The Cyclus brake mount tools is over $4k and the Silva tools used on the headset and BB are a few grand each as well.
That was really good! Was keen before watching this video now really keen to price facing on my front brake.
Interesting 👍looking forward to the final review
Hi! I would love to see a video on riding from Adelaide to Murray Bridge, or if you don't feel like dedicating a whole video, a strava recording. I would love to see this route actually done and it would lay the foundation for my own riding. Idea for your next trip!
Interested in the bike despite some of the possible short-comings. Looking forward to the full review.
Great work James !
thanks for the info ..great video .. well presented.
I love those Cleland trails!
uh oh ... I have one on order but will build it as an all-road bike with 32C. Thanks for raising the issues on the stuff that other reviewers either missed or glossed over.
Not a problem Hansen, glad to give you some handy information. You should still definitely be excited about your upcoming build! Get the thing built up well from day 1 and you'll have a lot of fun with it.
@@JustRideAdelaide what can you say about using a 50-34 crankset on it considering they put the limit at 47t … should be solved by a chain catcher if the issue is potential dropped chain getting wedged between the big ring and chainstay no?
@@hansendy3708 I think your issue might be the chainstay clearance of the 50t cog. It might be quite close to having the teeth bite into the chainstay because of how it sweeps out. You may night find out until you're trying to build it.
@@JustRideAdelaide They managed to put a 50-34 crankset on their sample G2 bikepacking rig (on the G2 launch video and website) just fine, tho the presentor did say that do so at your own risk - so I think it clears the chainstay unless the chain is dropped. Otoh might be easier to just buy a proper rb frame like a caad13 or allez lol
I was not expecting that steerer tube 👀
Longer wedge, as always nice honest review.
Winspace will send you another longer wedge on first request free of charge.
Steerer tube design definitely made me go "wtf is that? nu-uh"
I had issues with my T1500D frame about that D shape steerer.
The wedge they provide you is to short, so my stem tended to move a bit during big sprints (by pulling hard on the handle bar) and i ended up with play in the head set.
So i asked to my Winspace dealer to give a second wedge to put it just underneath the first one.
Problem solved !
I think the R&D is insufficient given the chainstay and steerer tube issues. Makes me wonder if the twitchy handling may not be designed into the frame, but a byproduct of poor design. Good , honest review as always.
Thanks Andrew! I really find this frame fascinating. A very interesting mixture of great spec decisions with unusual application. I think the price makes it a very good option on balance, you just can't get much else for so little. Still, some of the design choices are odd
Thanks 🙏 your reviews are always very interesting and helpful 👍👍👍
Glad to hear it, cheers mate 🍻
@Ride Adelaide The expander plug in your video is completely different than the one I got with my g2 frame set. Same goes for other youtube reviews I’ve seen. Was your expander plug long enough to support one or both stem bolts? The expander I received has a centered(not offset) stem top cap, then a spring that sits below it, then 2 piece wedge. It looks like the expanding wedge piece would only be able to provide support for one of the stem bolts or sit between them both if playing with the position of the wedge utilizing spacers below the top cap. I’m not sure how I feel about the design of this one as the top cap bolt would be relied upon for expanding the wedge as well as providing preload for the headset.
update for me on my g2 steerer expander setup: I asked winspace to provide me the full length expander plug, which they sent me. I then took the half length aluminum spacer(allows for internal routing) that fills the void of the D shape steerer tube between the tube and the stem to a machine shop and had the machinist make me a full length version of it including a lip at the top. This way I have the full height of the stem supported both by the full height spacer and full height expander plug. No internal routing for me which I never intended to use anyway. I've been running this setup without issues 2000+ miles.
Excellent video as always.
Great fabrication skill by whoever made that long wedge out of the cut portion of steerer tube! Agreed, this is better than the supplied part. It's a no brainer.
I am considering this frame {actually the Light Bicycle Journey, its identical} & I am 175cm tall or 5'9" which is right between sizes. I am of normal build, not long legged or anything. Would the small frame be a better choice? I always ride medium bikes but this may be the exception. Thank you for any advice you may have!
I am currently looking for a Gravel frame I am basically hesiting between winspace g2 and carbonda cfr696. Thank you a lot for your video, it's the best "review" I watch so far on RUclips! When do you think, you willl release your final review?
Does facing void frame warranty?
Almost same as my monster gravel project bike 💯🦋🚲✅
really great review
Thanks mate!
If you’re looking to get another video out of this project, may I suggest you send this frame to Raoul Luescher for independent evaluation of manufacturing quality. He has found examples of problems in practically every major brand. See in particular, his Bianchi Arcadex video, which may be an example of a defect - or assembly error.
Seems to me this is trying to hit the gravel fondo market, e.g Unbound/Dirty Kanza, where 700c 38-42mm tyres, low bb, race geomtry and fully aero cockpit with internal cable routing is the thing.
You made nice content. RIP James.
haha I'm not gone yet! Just focusing on other things. I'll be back making a lot more content next year ✌
Hopefully they make another model with no internal routing thru the steerer, that threw me off when I saw that. I was so excited to get one, pretty bummed.
Probably a daft question, but yhe headset comes with the frame? Im about to pull the trigger on a G2 next month and trying to sort all the components i need for it.
Thanks
How good is carbon for a very heavy rider + bags for bikepacking and long distance abusive offroad/allroad cycling? I've been looking at titanium bike frames recently, but somehow carbon ones still seem tempting.
If I were to use internal routing for the steerer, how does that solve the problem? I.e - what would be there to fill the void? (other than the cable/hose) I'm new to custom builds - I'm considering having one built by a pro, but I'd like to understand as much as I can
Did you base your sizing mostly of top tube length? Basically wondering, if I normally run 540mm top tube, should I get a small 542mm - seems like many people have mostly matched this spec.
Great review. Was thinking about this frame til I saw that steerer. Not a fan.
Should these steerer routed designs go away, or does the tech just need time to mature and improve?
I think they would be safer if the steerer were aluminium and the fork carbon, but that involves manufacturing complexity so I guess they won’t do it. I have an aluminium/CF fork and it uses a star nut in place of a expander plug. Never have to worry about a cracked steerer.
@@bengt_axle the trade off is then you have to worry about the bonding of the carbon to aluminum.
@@davidgarza2267 yes. I’ve heard this many times. I think there are ways to mitigate this. On my fork, the aluminium is quite overbuilt compared to a carbon fork and the carbon is bonded to it with a clear resin, finished with clear laquer. If there’s delamination you can catch it earlier. It is definitely not a super lightweight fork, but it’s rim brake, so bike wheels have some weight savings.
5:56
just like some of the carbon steertube expander which is only 20mm long
colnago deda and some other manufacturer made some 70mm long to made a fully support
I'm still looking for a 70mm deda alternative
Great review. I was interested but no longer. This isn’t the bike for me.
Will this bike really fit a 700c 50mm tire with a front derailleur like a Shimano DI2 or GRX DI2? I have a frame with a similar chainstay length and the front derailleur, specifically an Ultegra Shimano DI2, prevents a larger tire from fitting as the tire hits the FD.
Steerer tube is a bummer!
It's quite a surprising design decision for a gravel frame. There's so little integration in this corner of the market.
Interestingly this frame is also sold by Light Bicycle .. a manufacturer in China. Now who developed the frame?
I've seen that listing and largely ignored it for simplicity 😂
The complex relationship between brands and factories can do your head in! I did note with some interest that Winspace seems to be a little cheaper
I've seen a video where they (winspace) claim to have sought the help of an ex cervelo employee in the design of this frame. I've had a few cervelo's and 2 of the 3 were replaced under warranty....each of which would of been outside of a Winspace warranty window.
how much width do you think it can go with 650b? how would going 650 influence it's geometry/
It's listed as 2.0" and going 650b fundamentally speeds up the handling and drops the whole bike down closer to the ground. I don't really think either of those things are necessary given how sharp the bike already is, and 700x50 is a brilliant tyre size
Hi All, i'm 180cm, 32/33cm inseam. I'm thinking a medium in the G2. Anyone a similar height buy this frame? thanks in advance
7 minutes in I realized I don't need to watch this review anymore because that's poor compromise for the steer tube. I love my Why Cycles R3+
no way I want a bike with that sort of steerer tube to ride down a mountain on whilst carrying luggage...shows that aping fashion is more important than safety and longevity. I'm out. The fact they have a warranty less than a handful of years scares me off.
next time you get a free frame dont build a bike and just try use it around the house and review that
could be a good towell rack?