CTS-204p/S90V Comparison
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- This is a video documenting the testing of CTS-204p and CPM-S90V for edge blunting and edge retention when push cutting cardboard. The edge angles are 30 inclusive, with a coarse finish, at a very high level of sharpness.
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That's the most standardized and thorough test I've ever seen on RUclips. The only way I could think to improve it is to use multiple knives for reach of the knives and use a statistical test.
I think that would be too expensive though.
Yeah, the tests get expensive, time consuming, and if you're not careful, the data can't even be presented. I've done entire tests with multiple runs that were never posted because of a mistake.
If you watch the later videos on the channel, the testing gets better. (At least, I think it gets better.).
Glad you liked the video.
I'm a professional researcher, and about a 3rd of the data I collected in grad school and the first year on the job was pointless data I never used.
I wanted to get fancy with my research when I started out. Experience has taught me that something will always go wrong, so keep it as simple as you can. Plus people don't understand half the shit I talk about when I get into statistics.
What is the best steel or knife for both ease of sharpening, and edge retention? Basically, what's the best ease of long term use knife?
+Rick Holden there is no best steel. There are very well rounded steels, but when you get into extremes, like 10V, you have extreme abraision resistance, but low toughness. Corrosion resistance can be a factor as well. And the blade geometry and the sharpening can also play a huge part.
When I buy a knife, I consider the steel, the build design, and my intended use. For me, what knife the steel is on, is as important as the steel itself.
A very good steel for general all purpose use for the non expert is S30V. That being said, you should start with a steel that you can work with sharpening. As you get better with sharpening, your options open up.
Michael Christy Thanks, for the reply. For me, I keep the blade shape simple for later sharpening ease. To sharpen, I use a Work Sharp Guided system, with the upgrade.
I try to balance ease of sharpening, with edge retention. For example, I don't mind an Al Mar Aus8 steel, because it has decent edge retention. And, maintaining it is easy. When I do have to resharpen it, it's also easy.
But, for the price I'd prefer a steel that I have to sharpen less often, even if sharpening it is more difficult. But, if sharpening it is an hours long process, I'm not dealing with it.
I just bought a knife with S35vn steel, which I've heard is slightly better for retention and sharpening than S30v. But, I'm sure the treatment process matters more; like Al Mar having superior Aus8.
After research, I'd like to get a zdp-189 knife. I figured it would be hard to sharpen, but I've heard mixed reviews. What do you think of zdp?
I've never done any testing, but I find that my Southard (CTS-204p) and my Blue Military (CPM-S90V) have seemingly very similar edge retention. I'm not a hard use person, but that's my experience with every day tasks like opening packages, cutting cardboard, food prep, rope/cord cutting, and other light tasks. Also, sharpening seems somewhat similar on the sharpmaker... I'd say the CPM-S90V takes a little longer to sharpen.
What you're saying is a good assessment of the two steels. There's two more videos I have posted related to this testing... 204p further testing and S90V/204p retest. You should check them out for my full perspective on this.
I've tested multiple spyderco knives in 204p and I can safely say that across the golden spydie s90v line the numbers you came up with are very close % wise to the numbers I've seen when comparing golden 204p and s90v.
great review, especially if you find yourself trapped in a cardboard box.
Bleed Lakers thanks. You've gotta watch out for those unexpected cardboard box entrapments.
Michael Christy ...I've had my share of cardboard battles.
I'm new to understanding different steel. Can you please tell me the blade you recommend most for durability and sharpness? or just a few steel types you would recommend for higher end knife?
John Kennedy CPM M4 is durable and stays sharp. You should get that. It’s not stainless though, so take care of it.
First of all, I think it's good to show these comparisons and to make the test series identical.
But unfortunately I don't think that the same conditions are met.
The blades are roughly the same length and the knives have roughly the same function.
BUT one blade is convex, the other slightly concave, one blade is curved,
the other is straight and the blade thickness is therefore different to the cutting edge,
which strongly influences the results of the cutting edge tests
(from my point of view).
I’m going to say if it’s not a batch of ht issues that you need to either grind the edge down and re sharpen it to get to good clean steel or get it under a microscope and see the fine wire edge you still have that’s been polished and not 100% removed.
Josh Jensen it wasn’t the edge. I sharpened and resharpened starting from course. I’ve also used other 204p since and not had the same issue.
Michael Christy so do you think it was a bad ht issue?
Josh Jensen probably. There was definitely something wrong with it.
Michael Christy have an email I can reach out to you at?
It might help for some to add some text to the description.
I have not done much cutting as you have done here, the results are interesting. I would be really curious if you used S30V/ATS-34 where it would fall.
+Cliff Stamp Ha, I maybe should have watched the full video first.
That is a very interesting result. I think this is light evidence that there may be an issue with the 204p blade.
Cliff, there's a sprint run Military in CTS-204p coming out from Spyderco sometime in the next year or so. I plan on getting one. We'll see how that one does.
+Michael Christy Spyderco has a decent warranty department. The forum isn't a great place now, but Sal is still decent to talk to.
+Cliff Stamp it's something I'm going to look into. The Domino is a great knife. It's one that I'd recommend, and I'm not sure about this blade after that final test. I'm willing to bet if I repeated the test with Elmax, (which should be close to or a step behind 204p) it would do better then ATS-34.
+Michael Christy The interesting part to me is the size of the gap between 204p and S90V and then from ATS-34 and say Elmax.
If you keep one knife constant, you can gradually assemble a scale of results just by normalizing to that one reference.
Is CPM Rex 45 a better edge retention steel than this? And also out of these two steels which is better at not rusting or spotting? Thx
Gmotion EDC m390 is better at corrosion resistance!
Wow I thought the domino was a lot smaller. That’s a nice blade.
Michael Niel it’s a great model.
The Dice is the small one.
Michael Christy oh yeah, that’s right
Michael Christy what model Yojimbo is that? After market scales?
Michael Niel no after market. S90V/CF exclusive from Knifeworks. Came out a while back.
Michael Christy nice 👍. Makes me pissed at my S30V one. Lol
Does cts 204p chip like m390
butters 460 I haven’t seen either one chip.
I like much bether 154CM on my Griptilian then CPM S110V on my Para. I sm deeply disapointrd with other CPM steel and thats S35VN. It is very hard to sharpen this two CPM Steels and thay lose sharpnes very fast. ATS 34 os very simylar with 154 CM.
speedykobac ATS-34 is very similar to 154cm. What you're probably running into with the CPM steels, is that they're harder to sharpen then 154cm. Because you can get 154cm much sharper, it seems as if it holds it's edge longer then the CPM steels. A lot of people prefer steels like 154cm or VG-10 for that reason.
Its the heat treatment . Its always the heat treatment.
9:19
Oh god why