This Tissot? TOSS-IT! 🤬🤯😤
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- Опубликовано: 17 янв 2024
- What do you think of this CR@P caliber C07.111?!
High-tech escapement my A$$.
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Finally, someone who is not gushing about the Tissot Powermatic 80 movement.
Thank you so much for your honesty.
The watchmakers I watch don’t gush about, paid reviewers do
@@richplant2205 when will people realise that youtubers aren't reviewers, they're an extension of a company's marketing department?
There's a few versions of the powermatic 80, the Tissot Gentleman version has no plastic parts.
The general consensus about the movement is negetive only. I got 2 tissot watches and both are quartz. Tissot is basically a quarts watch company, if you go for their quartz varients you will be very happy for the value they provide. The fit and finish are usually two price bracket higher than what they sell for.
Just never get their automatic watches.
get the older ones with the eta.
Potential Tissot customer...lost.😮
Wow!!!!!
I really appreciate that you are making this kind of video. Awesome🙏 Thank you.
Is it even possible to service this movement or regulate it? Thanks!
You are absolutely right. The watch industry is no better than others. Minimising input while maximising revenue. All wrapped up in a few warm words.
Because of the plastic escapement,I changed PRX to Hamilton Khaki auto😅
Made a nice change from the usual watch content, wish there were more channels exposing this kind of cost cutting.
I appreciate the insight into these kind of practices. Without digging further, the movement and its finishing looked so nice (even in the display case back).
Is there any argument from a technical side for a plastic escapement, or is it just cost savings?
I have this watch in its original form, before the Powermatic 80. It keeps time better than my CHR Ward chronometer which was over double the price, as does my other Tissot (T Sport from 2010).
Tissot are excellent watches - accurate and great value for money.
Plastic escape wheel, plastic pallet fork, plastic durability.... Personally, I think Tissot should use wood instead of plastic, which would be more environmentally friendly, and in addition, the watch would generate a nice supply of very fine sawdust to mop up any surplus moebius left hanging around the escapement.
They did make a wooden watch once. In the 1970s. A friend had one and although rather novel didn't last long.
Ok but how is wood from chopped trees eco friendly???
Bio ceramic
This is a very ignorant comment in sorry. Those plastic parts are derlin which is very strong and used in many industries and heavy equipment. Just as plastic and rubber make a gshock more resistant than any steel watch, plastic can perform other functions just as good or better than metal. The reason you don’t like it is because when you were growing up you were told plastic was cheap and bad. But in fact there’s no reason why plastic couldn’t do the function properly
@@enriquesb1528 I agree, and many of these plastic parts are self-lubricating, which makes them last longer between servicing.
Thank you for being honest as a professional in watchmaking.. because not everybody know about that "plastic" thing, and the advertising obviously not mentioning that thing very clear.. so, if we're not a watch enthusiast, maybe we didn't even notice about that problem in long term usage.
That's also the reason I choose the green Tissot PRX 40mm in quartz version.. because for the price it's ask, I think it's worth the value.
How about you get the Tissot Gentleman Silicium? It has the ETA.C07.811 which has synthetic escapement.
There's several versions os the Powematico 80 movements and the plastic component is not present in all of them, such in the Ballade Cosc and Seastar.
I would assume that the Powermatic 80 Longines don’t have the plastic parts either ?
You sure the seastar doesn't have that plastic part? Because I have one and maybe it has plastic pallet fork in it too.
@@intisarmuhtadee1117 When it says 23 jewels it hast the plastic parts, 25 jewels doesn't have the plastic parts
Exactly! We're missing half the story!
Wow really would not expect plastic from Tissot!! I’m almost as peeved as you Kalle 🤣 almost lol thanks for the vid.
Yes, that's the problem with the 23 jewel powermatic 80.
Although the plastic part should last long and be durable.
The 25 jewel version in Hamilton and mido doesn't have the plastic parts if your interested in those instead.
In many areas of engineering and manufacturing, "engineered plastics" are the right choice. This refers to plastics that are made with certain characteristics to high standards. They have known properties and pass rigorous testing. I don't know if that is the quality level of the material for these watch parts. In any case, I am a bit of a traditionalist about mechanical watches and feel these should be made from stainless steel or brass regardless of the plastics that are available. Keep in mind though that the use of plastics for some parts _may_ be a well-considered, engineering decision.
ABSOLUTELY FASCINATING. I have had some Tissots with good results. Currently still have the NON-Powermatic Visodate with less power reserve but more smoothness regarding the second hand. I presume Tissot will explain away the plastic escapement as a weight-saving measure as well as a means to keep the cost to the consumer down. At least Hamilton spelled backwards is Notlimah which has no negative connotation.
Hamilton use the same ETA based movement, but I have to say mine runs 0-+1+seconds a day so a tiny piece of plastic doesn't bother me as long as the watch runs accuracy.,... which it does, they say it's for magnetic reasons which is fare enough
Great video, thank you for sharing. Truly incredible... I had my beloved Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 and I'm gutted about your finding.
Wow! Thanks for the heads up. It's unbelievable, yet, believable.
What is unbelievable? None of this is a secret. Did you expect the $800 watch to have a $500 movement in it?
The Swatch Group is killing it, literally. ‘Swiss Made’ has become a mockery, especially for entry-level watches!
Swiss made means nothing to me.
there is "Honk Kong" written on the inside of the case cap on quartz version :) Sometimes it is hidden with black rubber glued on it.
@@TomasWatchReviews There isn't a quartz version of this watch.
Isn't the rule something like 60% of the value has to be Swiss made? Better than it was, it used to be 50% until a few years ago. To be honest it's not like it was a century ago, the rest of the world has caught up and a watch doesn't have to be Swiss to be a good watch. I know the purists won't agree but, hey, nobody cares what watch you wear anyway. Most people these days wouldn't know one brand from another.
@@TomasWatchReviews Which watch are you referring to?
If you compare the plastic escapement of the Swatch 2840 - used in the pre-Sistem 51 - you will find exactly this pallet fork and escapement wheel. It isn't even new, it is old... And the major joke: The pallet fork needs lubrication, a special Moebius grease.
Exactly. I'm no expert on watches in general, but people shouldn't be too indignant about a plastic escapement because there is a genuine reason for it. Plastic, or more likely, nylon, is a better shock absorber and therefore helps with vibration, which is precisely why it's the escapement and not so much other parts that is made of the offending material.
Don't believe me? Go kick the side of your car and see what happens. well preferably don't as it will most likely leave a big dent. Now go kick the side of your refuse bin with the same force. What happens? No dent. So I know people will have a hard time accepting this, but it's actually an improvement. You won't find it in high end watches of course, because people don't expect it and manufacturers know what their response will be but they would use it if they could.
This Le Locle is actually a really nice watch by the way if you can accept it for what it is. I picked one up for under £400 in the January sales from a local jeweller, very happy with it and it definitely looks like it cost a lot more.
@@severnsea : plastic is flexible and VERY bad at resisting friction, which is exactly the opposite of you want for the escapement. Also, plastics hardens and becomes brittle. It also shrinks. In something made with incredibly small tolerances, this is just a very bad idea. But in all reality, these watches are exactly like Seiko 5, you buy it, wear it for a few years until it starts slowing down, throw it in a drawer and buy something else....and Swatch group knows that. They want you to buy new watches, not service them.
@@keesketsers5866 bs. Anyone with half a brain cell will replace the movement in a Seiko 5, NH35/36s are so cheap there's literally no reason not to do it, for 30 euros the watch is good for another 15 years.
Tissot is Swatch's lowest tier brand. Boomers get upset about what they think is plastic. It does its job well. Anyway, a few steps up the Swatch ladder to Certina and they don't use this "plastic" part. I wonder what this guy thinks if the "plastic" part in the Omega Speedmaster movement 😂
Swatch is Swatch's lowest tier brand.
Happy to found your channel.
Love the technical aspect of it.
Could you maybe do a review of a L688 movement from Longines?
idk got one of this. simply put, it works, approx. -4/day. not sure about reliability, it's just 2 yrs old
I am quite happy to come across this video.
I was interested in a watch with this movement but I knew it had some plastic parts which turned me off.
You are the first one to actually show the plastic parts and you are right, it looks like a very cheap sell out and thus I will not buy a Tissot watch.
I bought myself a somewhat similar Tissot, the T139407 A with a ETA 80.111 movement in it. Most likely I've got a bunch of plastic parts in it as well. Which does make me worry. I've recently put it on a timegrapher that I got (picking up the watchmaking hobby here in Utrecht 🙂), and it did run amazingly well. But will I be able to maintain it down the line? Part of the appeal of mechanical watches for me is their agelessness when maintained properly. Also these pieces can carry a lot of emotional value for people because they are bought sparingly and for special occasions. I bought mine for finishing my masters degree 😀. But I might have looked at other watches had I known about there being plastic parts in there (probably). It makes me trust the brand less...
thank you ❤
now i make decision
my next watch it s the chemain de tourelle
when you buy a watch from a big company who give you 2 years and more warranty
trust us or build your watch
ingeneere try to make a whatch perfect and long lasting 80 hour
and more pressicion
and more resistance to the magnet and you think plastic not good
I have a seastar in for repair at the mo, the crown wont close and the rotor spins when you wind it after it has stopped. So see what happens when i get it back.
Thank you for touching this “great strategy” of such respected brand! I found such plastic escapement many many years ago on one of Chinese “no name movement”. It was strange, cheap and monstrous decision towards the client, just to sell the watch and forgot anything…. And now we see this in watches there engraved on the oscillating weight - 1853! For what?! Does it means they find a decision of the ages?
Oh geez !!! 😮 plastic parts !!!!
What going on with Tissot it’s a shame !!
Thank you Kalle to show us this horrible things !!
I am a proud owner of Certina DS C026407 A AE 125th Anniversary edition with the C07.111 movement. I found out about these plastic parts just recently and got really disappointed. On the other hand, the watch runs since 2014 without any problems and the movement is still inside it´s accuracy parameters. Since the watch is also a memorabilia from my deceased father, they lose no value for me personally and will stay with the family hopefully forever.
I was really wsnting a PRX automatic, but now I'm angry at the thought of spending that much money and getting plastic parts that will wear down.
I personally think the PRX should have the exact movement as the gentleman with the silicium.
Sir...as an Aircraft Tech and engineer Ive noticed a huge lowering of quality from RR engines to airframe fitment (Doors falling off at 17K feet). Im retired now, my peers always wanted to do quality work to maintain Airworthiness but employees today are more interested in their tick tock then setting engine core bearing tolerances.
I have a PR100 Powermatic 80 with plastic escapement. I have had it for 2 years as my daily driver and currently runs at +2 sec/day. The most accurate watch I have owned. Yeah, same accuracy as an coaxial METAS Omega.
Think of all the work it will create for watchmakers, replacing plastic escapements every year.
The nice thing is that in some cases, it is possible to replace the PM80 with a 2824-2 or even a Sellita. Yes, it will cost you, but those two movements are easily repaired by your local watchmaker, and parts are plentiful.
I have this watch. It works great, lovely piece. Plastic: Does it matter if a) it works well, and b) it has durability, c) it reduces wear? But yeah, your rage is palpable.
Yes it is good for the time of warranty.
That's major COPE. Just admit it's 🚮🚮🚮🚮
precisely.
@@rosomak8244why must you lie?
I have one 3-year-old seastar 2000 and 5-year-old seastar 1000, the difference is 3-4 secs/MONTH. Secondly, this is a serviceable model, it is not difficult to change any gears. 🤡
@@80for80 What cope? He asked the question if the plastic part makes a difference in your day-to-day life. He didnt even disagree with him.
If I want a bunch of plastic bits I'll buy a quartz
25 jewels powermatic 80 in Certina is no plastic parts hence 23 jewels plus 2 on escapement. .611 I believe it is
Time will tell if the use of light weight low friction materials for the escapement is going to be a problem. Calling these parts "cheapo crap" may be a bit premature. The goal is low friction and light weight in order to extend the reserve which in return results in more sales. I have a Tissot Chemins des Tourelles with the Powermatic 80 movement and it has been accurate and durable for several years. Will it be repairable and serviceable for decades? Maybe, but the service may require replacement of the synthetic parts at some point. Let's remember that I paid $750.00 Canadian for this watch and not the $8-10,000.00 that a high end Rolex, Omega or others.
You are entitled to your opinion of course but calling synthetic watch parts cheapo crap is a bit like calling synthetic oils cheapo crap because that is not what was used a hundred years ago. We mall know synthetic lubricants last much longer in watches than old fashioned oils.
Is the Powermatic 80 a good movement? For the price I say definitely. Does it belong in a premium expensive watch? Perhaps not. At least not until the technology is more proven.
A few hundred dollars for a service may simply involve cleaning the case and installing a new movement. What is wrong with that for an inexpensive watch.
In the mean time my Tissot has been keeping time to with in 1 or 2 seconds per day for several years. I am not a watch collector or a watch snob. Just an average person that wanted a mechanical watch that keeps good time. I have achieved my goal.
I learned this a while ago and it completely blew me away! From one grumpy old man to another, it is just another step backward for them. We see again the slow and painful demise of a once great watchmaker. Excellent video my friend, people need to know what they are buying.
Not to mention that you can't regulate any of these movements they're putting into their entry level watches.
@@DISK2000 It is designed to use 5-10 years, then toss it and buy again. No, thanks i just buy a similar seiko, orient or citizen automatic, with better economic value (I do not comment on resale value.)
I believe the plastic has some amazing characteristics such as high hardness and low friction, i don't think it's a bad aspect, new materials are part of any engineer life. We need to see how it goes on the field. So far i think Tissot is doing pretty well if you consider the amount of PRX out there.
When you buy a watch which claims to have "high tech elements", you expect that to include jewels at the high friction points. There is no plastic, no matter how fancy shmansy it may be that is more effective, more advanced, more "high tech" or more desireable than rubies.
@@schell0118 But jewels are lower tech than modern plastics. I immediately thought of a non-traditional material when the escapement was described as "high-tech". Plastic was an option. Some plastics are literally the least-wearing or strongest-per-diameter materials known to mankind.
@@zbnmth I agree. Unfortunately it is only a plus to those who approach these issues from an engineering aspect. Emotionally, to most people, it is plastic. I get both sides of the argument.
@@ddo7802 Same! The idea of a ruby part near your wrist is romantic. Geology and stuff.
Absolutely, especially if you consider that ETA builds movements with that plastic escapement since 1991! So they got a little bit over 30 years of experience with that.
i was just looking at a tissot heritage cosc now i will need to do some reserch
honestly thanks for shedding light on this movement lol im glad i have just the quartz prx now
Ive been wearing a prx pm80 since 2021 almost daily, and i have not had any issues with reliability or accuracy so far. Granted its nothing like my GS speingdrive, but imo my prx is a tough beater of a time piece, i really enjoy it.
Good. This bloke is an arrogant so and so. Like so many other watch makers unfortunately.
Two years is far too short a period to draw any conclusions. Most of my watches are over fifty year old. I suspect the life of those plastic components is around five years, based on experience.
Hello Kalle, wonderful video. Big fan of your work, Christiaan Huygens would be proud!
I sent you an urgent email, forgive me for pestering you about it here, but please let me know your thoughts as, well, time is of the essence.
Thanks again and keep up the great work.
Best regards,
TGV
Look who's here!
That's why I only collect vintage mechanical watches and it is a pleasure seeing you repair them
I was always wondering which part of the cheaper powermatic80 version was plastic... and I assumed a gear or two, but not the Palet-Fork... I think this just now will keep me away from buying a sideral s, and going for an alternative. Maybe a diver65 or so
A commenter on one of the reviews posted the below previously. I had understood the plastic parts were one of the features of the specific movement.
The rate is adjustable by adjusting the eccentric screw as it's a free sprung balance.
The plastic part is a Nivachron hairspring that was co-developed with swatch group and APRP, with that it made the watch anti-magnetic, and pallet fork with the escape wheel made out of the composite, it createsless friction and less impact. You know good things for a hairspring.
C07 movements are highly serviceable, so it's not just throwaway movement, they use special lubricant compared to the common swiss lever 9415 oil which if other watchmaker out there have the proper lubricant they could fix this watch too. They exchange the movement so the turn around time of servicing is faster while the old movement is sent to Switzerland to be serviced.
The plastic parts (escape wheel & pallet fork) only apply to the Tissot PRX Powermatic 80 watch, which carries a C07.111 movement (23 juwels). The new Tissot Gentlemen Powermatic 80 watch has a C07.811 movement with all metal parts, a silicon balance spring and 25 juwels.
I believe you are correct, Sir. This is why I got myself a Gentleman. I believe the C07.111 is also in a number of other Tissot and Swatch group models though. LeLocle has it too I think
I just panicked thinking I had bought a 'plastic' watch 😒so I got it under the microscope... thankfully, it turns out that you are correct and the Gentleman is a different movement number!... Phew ☺
I agree i have a 25 jewels powermatic 80 and all is well with the full metal parts plus silicon is used in many higher ETA calibre, so be careful only with the 23 jewels IMO
Wow, it's an egg timer! Sure bet ETA has a fancier name for it than plastic?
I have a Swatch Irony with an eta 2842 movement and 23 jewels. It also has a plastic pallet fork and escapement wheel. For me, Tissot is just a more expensive Swatch watch 🤷
The beauty of quartz confirmed.
Maybe we just need to step back; put our prejudices to one side; take a deep breath and get with the times. After all there are some advantages to using silicon and similar materials, especially, in a not inexpensive (compared to quartz watches) but very affordable (compared to the likes of Rolex and Omega) watch. For example, it's possible that materials like silicon or plastic generate less friction so they don't require as much lubrication and will perform more reliably over time. Silicium balance springs are a pretty common feature of watches these days. "Plastic" is going to be resistant to changes in temperature and magnetism (although, unlike the potential reduction in friction, I doubt whether these particular features are relevant to the escapement). I was under the impression that the Powermatic 80 movement was not really serviceable and couldn't be regulated in the normal sense. Although something would happen if you tinkered with the weights on the balance wheel, I don't think the results would be pleasing. My understanding was that the timing was adjusted during manufacture by shaving bits off the hairspring using a laser. I think that the powermatic 80 was intended to be accurate, reliable and relatively service free but probably not a watch that you would be passing down through the generations. If it developed a fault the manufacturer would usually replace the movement. Still, I couldn't imagine that any high end watchmaker would shove "cheap plastic" escapements in their horological masterpieces... err... would they? ulysse-nardin.watchonista.com/news/ulysse-anchor-tourbillon
Great video! I got into watches a couple years ago and at the time almost bought the Le Locle, and later did end up buying a Hamilton Khaki which also uses a Powermatic movement. I have heard that the plastic components are not found in Hamilton but I’ve never really looked into it. Either way very interesting.
I gifted my stepfather the exact same watch and serviced it last year. Thankfully for him and me it was the previous 'upgraded lol' version and has a true eta 2824-2 inside 👍🏽
High tech escapement 😂
Did you know it had been upgraded when you bought it? Or was it a happy surprise?
@@Revenant.Wristwatch I knew it had a 2482-2 inside prior to purchase (cannot go wrong with that movement) but I certainly didn't know that they had gone and done this on the new versions :(
I'm curious if the impulse jewel is plastic as well. Otherwise the ruby might slowly chew away at the pallet fork? Some plastics have very good abrasion qualities though. Also curious about the long term stability of the plastic it self.
It has 2 less jewels than the normal 25. Guess where those go...
Was the escape wheel plastic as well?
@@dale4034 Yes
The sellita equivalent movement, sw200 has 26 jewel. Where does that extra jewel go?
Thanks for this informative video! I just wish it could have been posted, and in my suggested videos before literally bought this exact watch a little over a year ago. It sucks that what I had thought was a nice watch, is actually a mere conveyance of a nice quality watch.
First of all, you look surprised by this. This should be common knowledge for a watchmaker.
Second, the pallet fork is not just "plastic": it is a synthetic material; but so are the rubies on a classic pallet fork. Why did they do this;? Well to make an affordable 80 hour power reserve watch. It is more affordable because placing the rubies on the pallet fork, is one of the only tasks that requires manual intervention and that is expensive.
As you may know, there is not just one Powermatic 80 movement. There are several. The ones with number C07.1xx, with the synthetic pallet fork, the C07.6xx with a classic pallet fork and the C07.8xx witjh a classic pallet fork and a silicium hairspring.
The synthetic pallet fork is not necessarily worse than the classic pallet fork. It all depends on the material that was used.
Is the ETA C26.111 that seems to be replacing the ETA 2671 in alot of ladies watches also have the same plastic parts? Can't find any info on it.
It’s well known that the C07.111 has a plastic escapement. C07.6xx version has a regular escapement. C07.8xx version has a regular escapement plus a silicon balance spring. I agree, plastic pallet fork and escape wheel has no place in a Swiss movement. C07.1xx movements are considered disposable- the movement typically costs less than a service. All the auto Tissot PRX line has the plastic escapement. The Gentleman line has the regular escapement. I’m somewhat surprised to learn the plastic escapement (C07.1xx) is in the Le Locle line which is Tissot’s biggest seller worldwide. I’m not a fan of the line, which costs basically the same as the Gentleman. I guess the takeaway is be suspicious of a modified/updated 2824 ETA movement with 23 jewels lol (they are here to stay)
Thank you for details. This means my Gentleman with 25 jewels and C08711 has a regular escapement, for what it´s worth. I´m very happy with how it runs anyway.
Every so often Amazon drops the price of the Powematic 80 Gentleman watch to $425. Right now they have the blue dial version for $425. At least with the Tissot Gentlemen watch you get the regular escapement and not a plastic one like in the PRX. Of course there are still other minor problems like people complaining about the bracket having sharp edges.
is this a new thing? I wonder if my old LeLocle (not powermatic - T41.1.423.33) has this plastic thingy or not
In my Atlantic seacrest is regular and has 2824-2 too but its the 25 jewell option
Man even the Seiko 7S26 which has no hand winding/hacking has a jeweled pallet fork. Even the Miyota 8200a has a jeweled pallet fork. What even is this garbage.
Thank you for showing us the real tissot watch, are all their movements the same or just that movement, what happens when the plastic wears out in a few years ????
They use this movement(CO7 111) in several watches but it is the only one with synthetic escapement and pallet fork. All plastics are synthetic materials but not all synthetic materials are plastic. The material used by TES (Swatch ,Tissot and others) is not the same material that most people think of as plastic. It is hard, machinable, self lubricating, light weight and contributes to the longer power reserve. That's why they use it.
I have that watch but mine is the Chronometer version with the 2824-2 not the Powermatic 80. I do have 3 watches with the Powermatic 80 though. I really like them and I hope they hold up.
This is why I’m keeping my 1973 Tissot chronograph PR516 the new stuff is not so good
They would call it high-tech carbon composite. It’s what makes the escapement ‘high-tech’. 😄 Thank you for sharing!
Yeah. It doesn’t say “high quality”, it says “high tech”. Those are not the same thing.
What’s your thought on the Le Locle’s 3 bar water resistance rating? It’s my understanding restating that I shouldn’t swim in my Le Locle, but I’ve recently seen some info saying that watch makers may dismiss that and say it’s no big deal to swim in it.
I would prefer facts and data from a timegrapher and time between replacement at service intervals to emotional indignation. If the beat error, vibration, and energy consumption were less for nylon over metal, and the Nylon escapement lasts 3 service intervals or 10 years, with identical ETA 2824 movements, the nylon escapement is product improvement. Manufacturers choosing this material should be transparent about it. Nylon should not be substituted if it degrades performance or reasonable endurance expectations.
I put mine on a timegrapher today. +4 spd, amplitude 230, beat error 1.2 ms.
i knew about this but i feel conflicted. Personally i find le locle to be beautiful and i want it, but it had this issue.
Any way to avoid / alleviate / aftermarket upgrade it?
I was told the C07.111 is the cheapest Powermatic80 used in the PRX etc. There are higher grades used in the Gentleman and others. Although this info is out there, it is deceptive for Tissot to keep that hidden from consumers. That said, I'd guess people buying PRX's are just looking for an inexpensive Swiss watch.
Is the issue with TISSOT or ETA?
Do all ETA C07111 have that escapement? 23 jewels. By my understanding the pallet fork jewels are critically important.
Questions: If you replaced those plastic parts with the traditional metal ones, would the watch run any better? You can test that yourself. Do you estimate that the plastic escapement will have a shorter or longer life than the traditional one? Why? If you could have a movement made of ANY metal or metals you choose, what metals would you choose, cost no object.
Objectively plastic should be more durable and lubricant free. Anyway I knew about this from the internet. There is the same movement with the metal part in the Gentlemen line if I'm not mistaken.
@@yehoshuacirt8645 that's what I would have thought - lower friction coefficient on plastics should result in less wear. So maybe it's not such a bad thing that the pallet fork is plastic?
thanks for this wonderful insight. It's incredible how managers risk destroying a company taking such stupid decisions. I hope you'll expose more of them.
I have a Tissot quartz watch which I spent $500.00 to buy. Its functions such as changing the calendar are imprecise and clumsy and don't compare with a $100 Seiko or Citizen. I think I will stick with the latter instead of throwing money away on Swiss technology.
I agree. Disappointing that the well marketed PRX is equipped with C07.111. I think the Powermatic 80 is a very good movement, but the C07.811, which does not have the plastic parts. Amazing that the Gentleman is in the shadows especially compared to the PRX, has no huge price gap between.
I am not an technical person, but I have this same watch and I have no problem with it... its even more accurate that some COSC watches that I have.
So I have no problem with that piece
There’s a reason why Tissot spelled backwards is “Toss it”. They’ve been making bad decisions. I’ve seen it with the Swissmatic… a literal unserviceable movement because it’s glued together (no screws). What the actual hell.
If not mistaking: the Swissmatic is based on the System 51 (which was mfgr. for Swatch), incredibly the watches which they put the El-cheapo movements inside really look good (the old saying: if it’s too good to be true, it ain’t), the difference in a quality movement are very small money wise. ETA needs better administrators to survive their reputation of quality products.😢
Tissot is part of swatch group as well as certina,hamilton etc. And they don t make their own decisions. If swatch group decides that c07.111 will be the new standard, it will be the new standard
I think if the design is durable, cheap to service, keeps good time, etc then its not the end of the world. They definitely would be better off keeping that phrase off the rotor though. I own a PRX Powermatic 80 40MM and a Seastar 1000 Powermatic 80 and they've been fantastic so far without any issues. They're also only $60 to service instead of crazy money to service higher end brands which to me is a big deal.
It appears to be plastic on plastic. Do we have a materials engineer here to tell us if there’s any more wear in this case vs metal on metal?
C'est dans l'air du temps, on produit à bas coût et on vend cher, c'est de l'argent facile et une vision à très court terme. Les chinois pendant ce temps progressent tous les jours... Mais je ne suis qu'un petit horloger de province sans grande expérience.
I thought it was public knowledge that the powermatic 80 had a plastic escapement.
It is!
I spend more money than I should on watches. However, after watching a video like this, I am forever soured on the brand Tissot.
only Powermatic 80 x.111 has plastic escapement. Otherwise x.611 and x.811 don't have this.
I have no problem with that, only with time will we be able to tell if it was a bad idea.
Interesting, thanks 👍. I have avoided this movement, because I would find it difficult to regulate. I had heard there were plastic parts, but I didn't realise it was this bad!
Thank you Mister, for educating us.
I see they took a page out of the playbook of the old Hong Kong made Timex-like movements that had plastic pallet levers and plastic escape wheels. Not a good look.
Everyone is fast to jump to PLASTIC = BAD but do we actually have any data substantiating that these will wear out that much faster than a metal palette fork?
I dont get the point of most people calling it out and especially I dont understand this video. Sure I get Tissot probably could have made a more elegant solution than using plastic parts. But is the issue here that it is not "high tech", or that it just shouldnt have plastic? Because the powermatic 80 was designed to have a longer power reserve at a lower price. There are of course hi beat movements with higher power reserves but none in this price range except for the powermatic. It needs the plastic parts to reduce moment of inertia and to help the weaker beat rate to actually keep on beating. Someone in a youtube video tried swapping the fork and escape wheel out for genuine 2824 metal parts and it could not run sustained. I think its not justified that the powermatic 80 gets so much smack, although I agree it could have been solved more elegantly and that many powermatic 80 models are very expensive to use a mechanism like that, even though still not as expensive as hi beat high power reserve models.
this watch and this colour are exactly what on my wrist right now lol.
several variations of this movement. lots of confusion. if it has 23 jewels its plastic escapement. if it has 25 jewels its metal. extra jewels for the escapement. hope this helps clear up some of the confusion.
Thank you for the info I’m in the market and now I’ll buy a quartz model 👍
If you could check Rado, Mido, and Certina. I hope they do not have that plastic part.
So I would like to know more about the real-world longevity of these. Is this plastic in fact wearing out? I see a lot of folks being offended that it's there, but I don't really see the proof that it is the failure point of these watches. And as for the watches being disposable, is anyone really repairing cheap Seiko movements that everyone swears by? When I've brought Seikos into watchmakers, they've said they'll replace rather than repairing the movement. I'm just not sure there's a world where anyone's Tissot movement would have been cost effective to repair.
THe Powermatic 80 C07.111 movement was introduced in 2013 according to an article I just read. I haven't heard of any problems. You don't send it to Tissot for service if you don't want the movement replaced. It won't cost much to have the plastic parts replaced with the service.
I’m with you. People are complaining about what MIGHT happen.
If you want a better watch, just buy one. Tissot doesn’t lie about what’s inside, and if you thought you were getting a quality Swiss movement in an $800 watch you really have no one to blame but yourself.
@@lebojay Other than the synthetic escapement and pallet forks and redesigned main spring these movements are almost identical to the 2824 that everyone loves. It costs less for Tissot to replace the movement at service time than to pay a watch maker to service it. Labour costs are the killer here. They are as serviceable as any other movement but economics are the driving factor.
That's why I would never touch Powermatic 80 movement. I would buy their quartz watches, maybe other automatic movements BUT NEVER EVER Powermatic 80.
Also Swatch markets their SISTEM 51 movement with "exceptional anti-magnetic qualities" I wonder why
Your point is, that there is a plastic part. Are there problems with it? Did it cause problems in the movement you rapaired? I like metal, but high quality plastics are also used in guns. And they last.
Thanks for explaining the the movement issues. Please can you explain how likely these parts are to fail? Do you think that Tissot expect these watches or movements to be disposable ie just replace the movement rather than repair it? Many thanks
When servicing, they replace the entire movement. This to me is like replacing the actial watch. There is no connection with a movement that is simply replaced at every service.
Any moderately priced mechanical could just have the movement replaced, including the Seiko 7s26, which he just made a video about speaking well of it.@@anandmorris
I don't see it as being a big deal. The watch will work for 5 years when it will need to be serviced. These parts can be replaced as part of the service, if needed.
@@anandmorris People keep repeating this without any evidence. These are just as serviceable as the regular 2824. Tissot maintenance procedure states that ANY MOVEMENT may be replaced OR repaired. This was introduced even before any of the Powermatic movement family.
@@anandmorris It all comes down to economics. Would you pay a shop $10,000.00 to meticulously rebuild your car engine or would you rather pay him $5,000.00 to install a brand new crate engine from the original manufacturer?
I would sell it the second I figured it out! I coukdnt wear it as it woukd bother and annoy me too much .Just shows watches selling at inflated prices not worth it.These company's better watch out. Things like this hurt the name and I woukd avoid altogether. Watch is a LUXURY and a manufacturer shoots themselves in the foot cheating out like this
What would be the best watch to buy at the $800 US mark then?
Most of the watch is metal. I wonder what they hoped to save by putting those plastic parts in there. Was the manufacturing process notably cheaper by going to plastic?
Yes it's sad but in England Tissot has prices that make one wonder why they are so cheap.
And you have shown us why !!
Let's hope they don't come up with the idea of building a plastic coaxial escapement. George Daniels, had turned in his grave. RIP.
I remember when Glock came out with a plastic pistol, now all the top firearms are polymer. People had a fit when cars came out with plastic bumpers, but now cars are 10x more safe. More than likely they took a part that if it didn't require servicing because it's basically self lubricating , the user would have a better watch experience between servicing ? I doubt those parts would save them much money. It's just the old guy in ya !
Hi. Please make a test for tissot heritage 1938 COSC. Thanks
Contains C07.111 - Automatic, synthetic polymer (plastic) parts
I hope this goes viral. Also if we don't buy their scrap then they will be forced to change.
Don’t believe their Swiss fairytales.