As you can see from multiple comments..it's the "gear dogs and houses". I had the same exact problem on my LT500 Quadzilla. I ice raced it for years, downshift to 4th at corner entry, halfway up RPM's it would shift up to 5th by itself, and shifter would smack me in the foot when I tried to hold it in 4th. I tried to hold shifter down, couldn't do it. The reason mine was 4th gear was because we only shift 4th to 5th during a race, and traction was awesome, so huge torque load on 4th gear. I fixed it by back cutting my "dogs and houses" with a reverse taper die grinder bit. I also ice raced my KX500, also shifted by itself, but it was 5th to 4th. Also fixed KX500 by back cutting dogs and houses. The dogs and houses are ground to be exactly 90 degrees from side of the gear, as you shift without using the clutch, the dogs slip out of the houses under huge tension and round the edge. With engine power applied, the gears slip apart from the dogs sliding out. When you backcut the dogs and houses, under power the gears will actually pull together and engage tighter. You can repair the gears or replace, either will fix the issue. I'm not guessing here, I actually had this happen twice.
Transmission gears are tricky. I have put together hundreds of old two strokes and sometimes everything looks very useable, and it still misses shifts. The only solution is to replace the gear with the worn shift dogs and also replace the gear that the dogs are going into and not staying. Fortunately, with a recent build, everything comes apart quickly and you can get the job done faster than normal.
Hi, I’ve just started recently watching your videos and I want to say that I’m very impressed and I really like everything that you do. And enjoy watching. I’m an old grease monkey but don’t have too much experience with these two strokes and Small Engines. But one thing I didn’t noticed on the transmission in the gears, do they have synchro’s? I know on the older stick transmissions that I used to work on Have synchro’s that slid the gears together easily. That’s what used to go wrong on those Trannys. The synchro would get worn out and it would pop out of gear. Hope this helps. If not, I agree with the Second Gentleman that I believe that said he believes that the forks might be just a little bit too worn out.
The grooves in shift drum looked banged up ... the bad part has to be due to the bolt missing and bending parts or wear in grooves from the angle the drum was at under load
There's a lot of info on this issue by searching 1987 LT250R slipping 2nd gear. They mostly talk about wearing issues with 2nd gear and the mating gears. Don't give up. You got this!
Yep. Totally agree with most of the commenters. Change second gear for a new one and the gear that meshes with it but also check the correct shims are present. The dogs will jump out if given the room by incorrect or missing shims.
I can tell you really Love doing this kind of work you wouldn't go as far as tarring down and rebuilding the engine like you do if you didn't Love doing this.
I had a Suzuki RM 125. I believe it was a 1985 or 1986. I had almost the same problem you’re having now ! It was the cam between the second and third , it always popped into neutral! I was done with it so I sent it into the local motorcycle shop and he said it was the little cam between the two gears was worn! To my eyes, it looked perfect, like yours! You might have to tear the transmission down, it also looked like a piece broken part you found in the case!! I’ve been looking online I found the part that was broken! I made a little video of the part I think is the one that is missing the cam, I’m sure it’s close to your issue too!
My 1985 LT250R did the same thing everyone kept saying it was a worn-out shift fork so I replaced them didn't fix it. The shift drum was the problem it had one spot worn just a little bit mic it you will find it can't have any variation in the grove.
2V, I had the same problem with my 58 AJS/Matchless 500 cc single motorcycle with the trans kicking out of 1st but work fine 2-4. It was play in a shaft bearing that once replaced fixed the problem. Great video!
Well it’s 80% fixed 😂 I imagine with that constant slipping from before it’s created some wear on the forks and the selector drum that or there’s a thin thrust washer missing inside the box or in the wrong place for one of the shafts (it was already reassembled incorrectly before so why not 🤷♂️) . Just spitballing the problem hopefully you’ll figure it out I know it’s bugging ya ! …. You did a great job getting it running as well as you did.. it sounds fantastic for sure … “love the smell of two stroke in morning … it smells like victory!!” Great video .. thanks 👍👍
That's why I like working on bikes, you can lift the engine in and out without cranes. Increase the tension on the gear detent to stop the high torque problem in 2nd gear...maybe? Great video as usual. TY Joe
Shift dogs check new and see if they look the same if yours are rounded that could be the issue it’s a common problem with race engines. Also inspection of the gears more thoroughly to see if they have any wear not just on the gear itself but the inner gear where the shift happens.
It's the engagement dogs on the sliding gears...worn, rounded off...the missing bolt causes the dogs to separate from the engageing gears and creates the rounding off
Recheck the dogs on the sides of the gears that engage each other. Are they rounded? Under load they will kick out, and the shift fork tries to shove them back in. That produces that feeling of jumping in and out of gear. Where it starts to pull, jumps out of gear and stops pulling momentarily, then jumps back in. Best of luck. 1:15 dogs appear rounded, no?
@@xeonlyfe Not sure what you mean, but I was simply wishing to be helpful. I enjoy his content and his work ethic. He is still learning and coming about his knowledge honestly via trail and error, which can sometimes be expensive and painful. Any idea what happened to Charlie?
Possible cheap and easy fix. This has a similar setup to the current YZ250 two stroke in that there is a spring that holds the arm that rides on the bottom of the shift drum. If the spring doesn't have enough tension then the bike will jump out of gear or you will have false neutrals. Try replacing the almost 40 year old spring with a new one and see if that fixes it. Remember springs are a wear Item and don't last forever. I'd try that before replacing any gears or the shift drum. That spring holds the shift drum in place so it has to have enough tension to do that. The current YZ250 works better and pops out of gear less if you either put a heavier spring on it or modify the assembly so the spring stretches further there by providing more tension. Good luck and another great video!!!
Pro tip - use a larger drill bit by hand to de-burr the exhaust rib lubrication holes rather than sanding the piston surface. You can avoid disturbing this critical machined surface and thus the piston profile via this technique.
Went back and checked video when going over the barrel. Recommend checking the barrel to make sure it’s the correct part for that year ranger. It looks like a newer part and doesn’t have 30+ years on and off usage. Great work and always look forward to your new and old content.👍
I’d throw in a new shift drum and 2nd gear. Dogs on second must be worn and won’t hold power. Drum might be worn over spec for 2nd as well which is why when second backs out, it forces the shift lever to move.
Just a thought and maybe worth a look,it's not something to do with the positive stop wheel assembly or worn driving dogs,together with worn driven gear slots,I've sorted a no. of rm's over the years that jump out of gear they ,you gotta remember 2nd is a real working gear,just a slight radius on the driving dog driving edge will allow it to jump out.
As I said before, I watch your videos all the time. I enjoy to see you knowledge of explaining what you do, and solving the problem. You could be a great teacher for others. Best of luck, and sucess
Looks like a really good Quad, after all the work you already did, I would replace everything in the transmission even if you break even you have a good machine that someone could enjoy. Besides you always have the video on RUclips making you a few dollars in return. Great job and very nice training video for someone to learn from.
Good looking little quad, now let's tear it apart. Can't beat an engine teardown with morning coffee. Lots of learning/teaching moments, some what not to do. 🤣The exhaust pipe looks like an old phonograph speaker.
I greatly appreciate your videos. I've learned so much about about fixing these machines and I thought I already knew almost everything there was to know
Hey Joe... to bad about the tranny... I see you use assembly lube while building your engines. You don't need assembly lube on roller bearings especially ones in a transmission oil bath. I do agree it is a good practice on the main rollers...and on the piston pin and that roller bearing.. Assembly lube is for surfaces like cam bearings(bushings) cam lobes and rocker armed. All those parts will have no oil on initial start up and the assembly lube will keep things slippery until oil pressure builds up in the motor. You are not hurting anything by the liberal use of assembly lube,however,I think it is unneeded. Love the channel and enjoy your videos. You have helped my carb cleaning and your repairs. Cheers.
I love the bikes , my dad owned this same bike 87,and I owed a 86 250r air cooled last year they made them air cooled . Both were excellent . Was too scared to buy the quad zilla 500 r . Eh boi. Nice rebuild dude. Was fun growing up with these race bike .
It's such a beast it's putting down SO much power it's just slamming that transmission out of gear.. it's a beast is all.. 52:55 edit: yeah well so I am teasing, of course.. I was reading the comments and it's definitely down there, you already hearted the comment knowing the shift dogs are probably worn a tiny bit from that bolt being out.. you got this Joe.. I'll bet you already ripped it down and fixed it, as this would drive me insane!!
This dude does everything on a shoe string, not wasting any brake cleaner. I've never even seen him swap out a oil filter, even if the filter is like 15 years old.
You laughed and said those shift forks are hard to mess up. When I went to MMI, you’d be surprised how many students messed that up. Putting forks in the wrong order and wrong sides all together. I’m with you and think it’s hard to mess up. But then again, I grew up in a shop and was helping my dad rebuild engines and transmissions since elementary school. Now I use the word helping very loosely there. As I doubt I was of much help at all. But at least I was learning how mechanical stuff worked, came apart and went together, what stuff to watch out for, what tolerances to keep an eye on, and most importantly spending time with my Dad. So I guess being Mechanically inclined is just more natural for me. So what do I do now? I buy and rebuild old 60s-early 80s Japanese motorcycles. While I have my now 8 year old Son helping me out. Teaching him how gear boxes work, cylinder heads and valve trains, how the engine turns reciprocating movement of the pistons into rotational movement of the gearbox to make forward movement possible. At 7 years old I had him lapping valves and using the tools to reinstall them. He completely reassembled the head on a 77 SOHC CB750 by himself. I just handed him the right parts for which side he was doing
"there is nothing we can do about it! Errr yes there is - you can pull it apart and put a new 1st/2nd gear set in it along with a decent shift drum......🙄
GearBoxVideo, this guy is the Guru of manual transmission: Learn How To Rebuild a Ford Toploader 4 Speed - Part 1 through 4 . Part 1 & 2 does most of the explaining as to why the m. transmission pops out of gear or has difficulty engaging a gear. Really intuitive!! I recommend watching it, especially if your transmission has syncromesh gears ('im sure it does)
I would check the parts diagram again and make sure it’s not missing any washers, especially at the shift drum. This is exactly what the Yamaha AT CT models do if you’re missing the washer on the end of the shift drum behind the keeper under the plastic 3 screw cover. Check the detent parts too something could be going on with that as well.
When you race a 2stroke you don’t hold the shifts out like that as soon as to pms get to max you go right into the next gear to keep the engine under load.
This inspection fail aside, Joe has shown he's a decent mechanic and getting better. But you can tell from his test rides that the two stroke bike's power bands intmidate him. Why a few race, even fewer win and the rest just ride and turn wrenches.
The dogs that engage drive gears are worn, causing it to slip out of gear at high rpms. I had the same problem on a yz125. I replaced the trans gears....problem fixed.
Excellent work and video, you covered everything, not a better how to video out there. You an excellent mechanic and such a smoothe operator, i love your videos. I would say the shift drum is the problem, running loose for a while has got to have done some minute damage maybe not noticable, and at high RPM its sensative to that damage. I would also replace the forks while i was in there, just because they got hammered also. . Second time apart is a pain , but after that just loose interest.
same bike with the same problem 7 years ago.... Replaced the gear dogs and BOOM! problem solved... I don't know why it did it in the first place, so idk about yours. You found the bolt missing which is a "tell", so I'm guessing that while it was loose you had "something" stretch my friend... Please keep us informed.... Great video Joe...
Unfortunately you must check the components for wear, and compare the measurements to the manual specs. You can’t skip putting a caliper on the shift forks, or checking to see if gears need undercut. I would have checked clutch spring length, etc. Clutch plates might look good, but what thickness, or how old are the friction plates?
We want to see more of Winnie, the Winmeister! He is so cute. Please film him running and remember to cuddle him more. And yes, Winnie deserves to be groomed by a professional. Of course, George has also been missed here in my country, which is in the north of Europe.
Now the quickest way to check it for slightly burnt out clutch disc is to try adjusting the cable and decompression rod by tightening the cable tensioner some. It's called taking out the slack and play enbetween the two which is the cable and pressure plate and third the shifter rod.
Replace fork. If you wanna be double safe then replace the gear also since you’re already there. That’s what I would do. Cool videos man, keep’em comin!
This brings back many memories from racing at southwick Massachusetts with four wheelers. But damn son, if you're going to post a video, clean all your parts before you disassemble. I can't believe the amount of grime while you're assembling. It's cool what you're doing but that's like the first rule in any kind of tearing down. Clean clean clean.
Don't know if it'll help, but you are definently missing a bolt on the clutch side cover. Right underneath where the clutch cable is joined to the little clutch arm. There is a hole that needs to have a bolt in it. If that doesn't work I might try the shift star or shift pawl
The broken piece that you found, I believe, is the dog from a gear. If you can't find where it broke off, the gear was replaced and the mechanic missed the broken piece. The broken piece tells me that someone was banging through the gears without using the clutch, probably with the throttle pinned. This will break and wear out the dogs.
After watching this video, and looking at the gears and selector drum and forks, the answer is to back grind the dog's. This is a process that we have done on many motorbikes and raceways gearboxes. We back grind to an angle of 4 degrees. This means that when selected the gear pulls itself engaged. We back grind both sides of the dogs so that it doesn't jump out of gear under deceleration either.
I love watching your videos, very entertaining and educational. Can you tell me why the piston has holes in it it’s obviously for an oil circulation issue. I was watching a video on another channel and the bore and the piston were scored and there were no holes drilled in the piston after watching your videos. I believe if there was holes board in the piston, it would lubricate and would not of scored the bore
Sometimes transmission gears have washers/spacers.. and sometimes those are directional.. I learned the hard way during training at MMI.. had a Honda CRF250R I disassembled and rebuilt.. put a washer on backwards and it would shift out of second.. same problem. Get the service manual and measure everything in the transmission.. it's the only way you will know..
Shift fork is out of tolerance there is a minimum and maximum amount of material at the end of the shift fork the manual will give the shift fork tolerance. That fork that is shiny compared to the other shift fork is more likely out of tolerance . That's why it slipping out of gearing second. Happens when you beat on the transmission.
That’s always been my biggest fear working on a gear box but you make it look so easy, I did a top end an had to rebuild some forks on a bike that had a bad crash, I cannot believe I did it just from reading a manual I was only about 15 ,I had to buy a new front wheel for a KDX 200 , they sent me one for a 125 it would not fit but they sent me the right one this was before internet an the motorcycle breakers would use this type of computer they called it a fish for some reason
That shift drum is possibly alright still. Which leaves you still needing A clutch pack with spacer plates. A good pre soaking solution I know of is PB blaster sprayed over that fiber disc's and the actual wet clutch moto oil to. The penetrating oil helps as A speedy pre soaking process procedure is all. It basically speeds it up faster is all.
After looking at your previous video about this quad, My bad, you have now syncro rings in the transmission. But you mentioned one of the shift forks had a little wear on it. It could be a gear wants to disingage itself pushing up against that shift fork. But I'm convinced! there's something in the gear train that isn't right! If you're stumped about it, bring it into a manual transmission place. I can see this happening if you had syncros but it doesn't look like it. I'm convinced it's in the gear train
Someone was doing hole shots with that quad, shifting into 2'nd gear from a standstill, with the engine revving. Always use the clutch when trying a hole shot.
Im a certified yamaha mechanic. You should use a gray sealant for case halves. Its designed for high torque applications. I highly recommend the Yamabond motorsport 4. Its what yamaha calls for on its engines. Its made by threebond.
Joe I would use emerycloth not sandpaper on those Piston pre drilled holes next time and some penetrating oil to remove the bits with for A smooth finish. wipe it off with soft paper towels clean.
There was one for sale on FB marketplace for $1500. It was mint condition, the owner was given it as part of a payment and didn't know anything about it. The owner before him restored it completely, it looked like he just bought brand new and was selling it. I was gonna buy it but backed out last minute because I wanted a dirtbike. I'm kicking myself now for letting go, I'll never get an opportunity like that again.
Try fitting the engine mount on the head that joins to the frame that is missing, the vibration caused by this could also cause it to jump out of gear. Shot in the dark ✌🏻
I would replace the shift drum and the plates. That bolt missing for that long has caused the slightest bit of wear that may seem fine to you but under a micrometer you'd notice. The basket and forks are fine because they still work in all other gears
If it jumps out of gear one time, the shift fork is now bent. Replace the fork and check the engagement dogs on 2nd gear. You can have a 3 degree angle ground into the dogs to help the gear draw in on shifts.
with the engine together check the thrust movement on the shifter drum it may need a washer that doesn;t touch the bearing ive had plenty of these apart cant remember if it holds to the bearing or floats in the bearing try it the most it could cost you is an end plug if it doesn't work
Had a honda 500 farm quad that had a bent shift fork that slipped in 2nd to neutral. Observing the forks, they looked fine until I used a straight edge on each of the fork fingers. When I ordered a new one, the old one was definitely bent. I assume that someone slammed the gears and bent them, especially in 2nd. It pays to be more observent on items like transmission components.
I think that if the shift drum is good and I agree it looked fine, and the shift forks are good, I would be looking towards the 2nd gear is missing it's shims or the existing shims are worn out allowing the gear to simply slide out of contact with it's mating gear on the other shaft.
If you ever come across a 1981 maico 490, buy it with no hesitation. Even the parts are worth good money. People in the UK go nuts for them. I had one in 1987 and it was the best bike I ever owned it got stolen in 1989 and I never seen it again.
I had a 90s champ Rx75 man I loved that bike was nicked outside my nans then my pops bought me a 2nd hand PW80 for £100 non runner took spark plug out took the little thread cap off the top warmed it up on the hob started 3rd kick went to pay the lad on it running he'd been trying for 2 years to get it going
Before u tear it down try the spring on the end of the shift shaft....they lose tension over time and can cause a similar issue...same thing happened w my 88 lt250r
Since the shift lever kicks downwards I would assume that the spring loaded mechanism at the bottom under the the shift drum jumps out of its groove. Either it didn't click in at all or engine vibrations at high rpm kick it out. In the beginning all gears higher than gear two were jumping out, now it is gear two alone. I find that a hint that there is no fault with the gearing itself.
No matter how much you wash them Joe in soapy water it will never fully clean the barrel out or the ports properly,you must clean them in a parts washer or a bucket with either diesel or solvent to clean your parts,then hose them after cleaning them out,you will see the difference!✌️✌️🇦🇺
Ya don’t always get em on the first try, I’ve taken things apart several times before finding the root cause of a problem. Something must have gotten worn too much with the drum slopping around in there. I’m positive if you think on it for awhile it’ll come to you bud 👍
I can't wait to see him fix this and show us what it was. I'm waiting to see him figure it out after reading the comments I believe 3rd video is the redemption epic fix video. Yeeeeeeeee beast video 🏁🇺🇲🏞️😎⚡😃🤙🥂⛽
Check the clutch plates out on it to. It could be burnt now due to burned oil and overheated clutch plate inside of that clutch pack set. From over the years of riding it like that to. They can loose friction and grab due to smooth of surface on the fiber clutch plate disc inside of it.
Did you check the shifter adjustment? The spring on the shift shaft should be on a bolt with a lobe on it, you turn the bolt and it moves the gear selector. On the Yamaha Enduros if that is out of adjustment this same thing happens.
I've had issues like this in the past. Everything looks great, but the problem persists. The only thing that has ever fixed the problem was to replace the parts where the problem exists. Even if you hold the original parts right next to the brand new ones and they look exactly the same but only the new ones work is enough to drive you nuts. I remember having a 1986 Toyota Camry in my shop with a very annoying misfire. After replacing the obvious parts (plugs, wires, cap & rotor), the problem remained. Even after a complete valve job, it was STILL there. We inspected the cam and its housing, and everything looked perfect, yet when the smoke finally cleared, the problem ended up being a warped cam housing. It was the only problem of its kind ever to come through my shop in that particular year make and model and still bugs me to this day.
My experience is that bearings at either end of the transmission can be smooth but worn with excessive clearance, especially cheaper brands. Use some good tight clearance Japanese or swedish bearings. So end result is the shafts aren't in alignment and it will slip out of gear.
As you can see from multiple comments..it's the "gear dogs and houses". I had the same exact problem on my LT500 Quadzilla. I ice raced it for years, downshift to 4th at corner entry, halfway up RPM's it would shift up to 5th by itself, and shifter would smack me in the foot when I tried to hold it in 4th. I tried to hold shifter down, couldn't do it. The reason mine was 4th gear was because we only shift 4th to 5th during a race, and traction was awesome, so huge torque load on 4th gear. I fixed it by back cutting my "dogs and houses" with a reverse taper die grinder bit. I also ice raced my KX500, also shifted by itself, but it was 5th to 4th. Also fixed KX500 by back cutting dogs and houses. The dogs and houses are ground to be exactly 90 degrees from side of the gear, as you shift without using the clutch, the dogs slip out of the houses under huge tension and round the edge. With engine power applied, the gears slip apart from the dogs sliding out. When you backcut the dogs and houses, under power the gears will actually pull together and engage tighter. You can repair the gears or replace, either will fix the issue. I'm not guessing here, I actually had this happen twice.
Nice
Transmission gears are tricky. I have put together hundreds of old two strokes and sometimes everything looks very useable, and it still misses shifts. The only solution is to replace the gear with the worn shift dogs and also replace the gear that the dogs are going into and not staying. Fortunately, with a recent build, everything comes apart quickly and you can get the job done faster than normal.
The gears and shift dogs looked good. Im gonna say shift fork is worn too much. Its allowing too much movement when in second.
Hi, I’ve just started recently watching your videos and I want to say that I’m very impressed and I really like everything that you do. And enjoy watching.
I’m an old grease monkey but don’t have too much experience with these two strokes and Small Engines. But one thing I didn’t noticed on the transmission in the gears, do they have synchro’s?
I know on the older stick transmissions that I used to work on
Have synchro’s that slid the gears together easily. That’s what used to go wrong on those Trannys. The synchro would get worn out and it would pop out of gear. Hope this helps. If not, I agree with the Second Gentleman that I believe that said he believes that the forks might be just a little bit too worn out.
Replace gear fork is that simple
Yamaha had this issue with 2nd gear on its R6 sportbike. They fixed it by adding more gear dogs. From three to 5. In the 2nd gen bike.
I say it’s the wheel on the spring loaded star tensioner iv see them not hold a gear if someone repaired it and the diameter is 2 big
figuring out these kinds of problems are what make you a better mechanic, dont let this get the best of ya/dont give up!
The grooves in shift drum looked banged up ... the bad part has to be due to the bolt missing and bending parts or wear in grooves from the angle the drum was at under load
There's a lot of info on this issue by searching 1987 LT250R slipping 2nd gear. They mostly talk about wearing issues with 2nd gear and the mating gears.
Don't give up. You got this!
Yep. Totally agree with most of the commenters. Change second gear for a new one and the gear that meshes with it but also check the correct shims are present. The dogs will jump out if given the room by incorrect or missing shims.
I can tell you really Love doing this kind of work you wouldn't go as far as tarring down and rebuilding the engine like you do if you didn't Love doing this.
You got a nice sounding running quad don't give up. Check or replace the dogs and really look over that drum. You'll get it fixed.
I had a Suzuki RM 125. I believe it was a 1985 or 1986. I had almost the same problem you’re having now ! It was the cam between the second and third , it always popped into neutral! I was done with it so I sent it into the local motorcycle shop and he said it was the little cam between the two gears was worn! To my eyes, it looked perfect, like yours! You might have to tear the transmission down, it also looked like a piece broken part you found in the case!! I’ve been looking online I found the part that was broken! I made a little video of the part I think is the one that is missing the cam, I’m sure it’s close to your issue too!
My 1985 LT250R did the same thing everyone kept saying it was a worn-out shift fork so I replaced them didn't fix it. The shift drum was the problem it had one spot worn just a little bit mic it you will find it can't have any variation in the grove.
2V, I had the same problem with my 58 AJS/Matchless 500 cc single motorcycle with the trans kicking out of 1st but work fine 2-4. It was play in a shaft bearing that once replaced fixed the problem. Great video!
Well it’s 80% fixed 😂 I imagine with that constant slipping from before it’s created some wear on the forks and the selector drum that or there’s a thin thrust washer missing inside the box or in the wrong place for one of the shafts (it was already reassembled incorrectly before so why not 🤷♂️) . Just spitballing the problem hopefully you’ll figure it out I know it’s bugging ya ! …. You did a great job getting it running as well as you did.. it sounds fantastic for sure … “love the smell of two stroke in morning … it smells like victory!!” Great video .. thanks 👍👍
That's why I like working on bikes, you can lift the engine in and out without cranes. Increase the tension on the gear detent to stop the high torque problem in 2nd gear...maybe? Great video as usual. TY Joe
Shift dogs check new and see if they look the same if yours are rounded that could be the issue it’s a common problem with race engines. Also inspection of the gears more thoroughly to see if they have any wear not just on the gear itself but the inner gear where the shift happens.
It's the engagement dogs on the sliding gears...worn, rounded off...the missing bolt causes the dogs to separate from the engageing gears and creates the rounding off
Recheck the dogs on the sides of the gears that engage each other. Are they rounded? Under load they will kick out, and the shift fork tries to shove them back in. That produces that feeling of jumping in and out of gear. Where it starts to pull, jumps out of gear and stops pulling momentarily, then jumps back in.
Best of luck.
1:15 dogs appear rounded, no?
big brain
@@xeonlyfe Not sure what you mean, but I was simply wishing to be helpful.
I enjoy his content and his work ethic.
He is still learning and coming about his knowledge honestly via trail and error, which can sometimes be expensive and painful.
Any idea what happened to Charlie?
@@steveaustin1984 It's just a troll. It's best to ignore them.
@@stkyfngrszmoothwhen he says big brain im pretty sure he just means smart idea
@@gxnesxs4621 I don't know. It sounded like an insult to me, but maybe it's different in other parts of the world.
Possible cheap and easy fix. This has a similar setup to the current YZ250 two stroke in that there is a spring that holds the arm that rides on the bottom of the shift drum. If the spring doesn't have enough tension then the bike will jump out of gear or you will have false neutrals. Try replacing the almost 40 year old spring with a new one and see if that fixes it. Remember springs are a wear Item and don't last forever. I'd try that before replacing any gears or the shift drum. That spring holds the shift drum in place so it has to have enough tension to do that. The current YZ250 works better and pops out of gear less if you either put a heavier spring on it or modify the assembly so the spring stretches further there by providing more tension. Good luck and another great video!!!
That is a difficult lower to rebuild! Good job explaining it!
Pro tip - use a larger drill bit by hand to de-burr the exhaust rib lubrication holes rather than sanding the piston surface. You can avoid disturbing this critical machined surface and thus the piston profile via this technique.
Went back and checked video when going over the barrel. Recommend checking the barrel to make sure it’s the correct part for that year ranger. It looks like a newer part and doesn’t have 30+ years on and off usage. Great work and always look forward to your new and old content.👍
I’d throw in a new shift drum and 2nd gear. Dogs on second must be worn and won’t hold power. Drum might be worn over spec for 2nd as well which is why when second backs out, it forces the shift lever to move.
the drum still has heat treat bluing and hasnt worn off so i dont see the need to replace them just saying
Just a thought and maybe worth a look,it's not something to do with the positive stop wheel assembly or worn driving dogs,together with worn driven gear slots,I've sorted a no. of rm's over the years that jump out of gear they ,you gotta remember 2nd is a real working gear,just a slight radius on the driving dog driving edge will allow it to jump out.
As I said before, I watch your videos all the time. I enjoy to see you knowledge of explaining what you do, and solving the problem. You could be a great teacher for others. Best of luck, and sucess
Looks like a really good Quad, after all the work you already did, I would replace everything in the transmission even if you break even you have a good machine that someone could enjoy. Besides you always have the video on RUclips making you a few dollars in return. Great job and very nice training video for someone to learn from.
Brilliant video Joe watching from Edinburgh Scotland UK 🇬🇧 👏 👍
Salford (Manchester)UK 🇬🇧
Consett u.k👊
Solihull UK 🇬🇧
Wheres the brillant part i missed it, this guy is a joke
@nicolecittadini4234 why the hate where's your repair vids
Great work young man you will figure it out, I have faith in you based on what I have seen of your ability so far.
Lot of experience in the comments; should result in a solution. Great content. 👍
Good looking little quad, now let's tear it apart. Can't beat an engine teardown with morning coffee. Lots of learning/teaching moments, some what not to do. 🤣The exhaust pipe looks like an old phonograph speaker.
Shut up
I greatly appreciate your videos. I've learned so much about about fixing these machines and I thought I already knew almost everything there was to know
Hey Joe... to bad about the tranny... I see you use assembly lube while building your engines. You don't need assembly lube on roller bearings especially ones in a transmission oil bath. I do agree it is a good practice on the main rollers...and on the piston pin and that roller bearing.. Assembly lube is for surfaces like cam bearings(bushings) cam lobes and rocker armed. All those parts will have no oil on initial start up and the assembly lube will keep things slippery until oil pressure builds up in the motor. You are not hurting anything by the liberal use of assembly lube,however,I think it is unneeded. Love the channel and enjoy your videos. You have helped my carb cleaning and your repairs. Cheers.
You're right and wrong... I do the same thing and I know it's not really needed but, it's a "peace of mind" thing...
The gear dogs are the culprit. Running it with the loose drum probably caused the dogs to round off
That's what I was thinking too
@@polska905my thought from the beginning.
Yep the dogs are rounded.
Another lesson he needs to learn
Gear dogs are toast; next time get Vinny's approval before test riding it😅😊😂
yep
I love the bikes , my dad owned this same bike 87,and I owed a 86 250r air cooled last year they made them air cooled . Both were excellent . Was too scared to buy the quad zilla 500 r . Eh boi. Nice rebuild dude. Was fun growing up with these race bike .
It's such a beast it's putting down SO much power it's just slamming that transmission out of gear.. it's a beast is all.. 52:55
edit: yeah well so I am teasing, of course.. I was reading the comments and it's definitely down there, you already hearted the comment knowing the shift dogs are probably worn a tiny bit from that bolt being out.. you got this Joe.. I'll bet you already ripped it down and fixed it, as this would drive me insane!!
Sorry I dont understand why the engine case are dirty and oily - Not worth cleaning up before re-assembly? Thanks.
This dude does everything on a shoe string, not wasting any brake cleaner. I've never even seen him swap out a oil filter, even if the filter is like 15 years old.
You laughed and said those shift forks are hard to mess up.
When I went to MMI, you’d be surprised how many students messed that up. Putting forks in the wrong order and wrong sides all together.
I’m with you and think it’s hard to mess up. But then again, I grew up in a shop and was helping my dad rebuild engines and transmissions since elementary school.
Now I use the word helping very loosely there. As I doubt I was of much help at all. But at least I was learning how mechanical stuff worked, came apart and went together, what stuff to watch out for, what tolerances to keep an eye on, and most importantly spending time with my Dad.
So I guess being Mechanically inclined is just more natural for me. So what do I do now? I buy and rebuild old 60s-early 80s Japanese motorcycles. While I have my now 8 year old Son helping me out. Teaching him how gear boxes work, cylinder heads and valve trains, how the engine turns reciprocating movement of the pistons into rotational movement of the gearbox to make forward movement possible.
At 7 years old I had him lapping valves and using the tools to reinstall them. He completely reassembled the head on a 77 SOHC CB750 by himself. I just handed him the right parts for which side he was doing
Why worry about the power valve getting hone material in it. I mean the amount of dirt that has fallen in, it's not going to matter.
😂😂😂
"there is nothing we can do about it! Errr yes there is - you can pull it apart and put a new 1st/2nd gear set in it along with a decent shift drum......🙄
Youll get it Joe !! Lots of good info in the comments !! Most of ur subs are good, smart, helpful people ! 😃👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Great video! Stay positive, you will figure it out.
GearBoxVideo, this guy is the Guru of manual transmission:
Learn How To Rebuild a Ford Toploader 4 Speed - Part 1 through 4 . Part 1 & 2 does most of the explaining as to why the m. transmission pops out of gear or has difficulty engaging a gear. Really intuitive!! I recommend watching it, especially if your transmission has syncromesh gears ('im sure it does)
I would check the parts diagram again and make sure it’s not missing any washers, especially at the shift drum. This is exactly what the Yamaha AT CT models do if you’re missing the washer on the end of the shift drum behind the keeper under the plastic 3 screw cover. Check the detent parts too something could be going on with that as well.
Yes, a missing shim occurred to me also...
When you race a 2stroke you don’t hold the shifts out like that as soon as to pms get to max you go right into the next gear to keep the engine under load.
This inspection fail aside, Joe has shown he's a decent mechanic and getting better. But you can tell from his test rides that the two stroke bike's power bands intmidate him. Why a few race, even fewer win and the rest just ride and turn wrenches.
One of your better shot videos, awesome. Us greenhorns learning from you
the dogs on the mating gear are worn
100%
The dogs that engage drive gears are worn, causing it to slip out of gear at high rpms.
I had the same problem on a yz125. I replaced the trans gears....problem fixed.
Tear it bk down it’s worth learning what going on for future projects
Excellent work and video, you covered everything, not a better how to video out there. You an excellent mechanic and such a smoothe operator, i love your videos.
I would say the shift drum is the problem, running loose for a while has got to have done some minute damage maybe not noticable, and at high RPM its sensative to that damage. I would also replace the forks while i was in there, just because they got hammered also. . Second time apart is a pain , but after that just loose interest.
Inside dogs are rounded
same bike with the same problem 7 years ago.... Replaced the gear dogs and BOOM! problem solved... I don't know why it did it in the first place, so idk about yours. You found the bolt missing which is a "tell", so I'm guessing that while it was loose you had "something" stretch my friend... Please keep us informed.... Great video Joe...
Unfortunately you must check the components for wear, and compare the measurements to the manual specs. You can’t skip putting a caliper on the shift forks, or checking to see if gears need undercut. I would have checked clutch spring length, etc. Clutch plates might look good, but what thickness, or how old are the friction plates?
We want to see more of Winnie, the Winmeister! He is so cute. Please film him running and remember to cuddle him more. And yes, Winnie deserves to be groomed by a professional. Of course, George has also been missed here in my country, which is in the north of Europe.
Now the quickest way to check it for slightly burnt out clutch disc is to try adjusting the cable and decompression rod by tightening the cable tensioner some. It's called taking out the slack and play enbetween the two which is the cable and pressure plate and third the shifter rod.
Replace fork. If you wanna be double safe then replace the gear also since you’re already there. That’s what I would do. Cool videos man, keep’em comin!
Does anybody else hear all the dirt grinding during the build. Damn man clean your cases and all of your parts.
At least wipe your hands off 😂
Yes, and it's enough to drive you nuts. Personally, I would've replaced every bearing that sounded crunchy, which was most of them.
This guy is a total backyard hack job. Pretends he knows what he is doing.
Playing with daddies money.
And yes he has ocd and aspergers
Man, this dude don't hardly clean anything.You're lucky even washes the cylinder out after he homes it.
@@stkyfngrszmooth yeah when he was putting assembly lube on the bearings it sounded like grit while spinning. But in the words of Joe its perfect lol
This brings back many memories from racing at southwick Massachusetts with four wheelers. But damn son, if you're going to post a video, clean all your parts before you disassemble. I can't believe the amount of grime while you're assembling. It's cool what you're doing but that's like the first rule in any kind of tearing down. Clean clean clean.
I know you will figure it out. You got this.
Don't know if it'll help, but you are definently missing a bolt on the clutch side cover. Right underneath where the clutch cable is joined to the little clutch arm. There is a hole that needs to have a bolt in it. If that doesn't work I might try the shift star or shift pawl
I would suggest that you check for any washers between the gears to closely verify if they are properly spaced.
I'm not a motorcycle mechanic myself.
The broken piece that you found, I believe, is the dog from a gear. If you can't find where it broke off, the gear was replaced and the mechanic missed the broken piece. The broken piece tells me that someone was banging through the gears without using the clutch, probably with the throttle pinned. This will break and wear out the dogs.
After watching this video, and looking at the gears and selector drum and forks, the answer is to back grind the dog's. This is a process that we have done on many motorbikes and raceways gearboxes. We back grind to an angle of 4 degrees. This means that when selected the gear pulls itself engaged. We back grind both sides of the dogs so that it doesn't jump out of gear under deceleration either.
I love watching your videos, very entertaining and educational. Can you tell me why the piston has holes in it it’s obviously for an oil circulation issue. I was watching a video on another channel and the bore and the piston were scored and there were no holes drilled in the piston after watching your videos. I believe if there was holes board in the piston, it would lubricate and would not of scored the bore
Love the 1987 correction! Check the washers between the gears.
Needs more grit in the engine ! LOL
I noticed how crunchy it was sounding when he put the case on and when he put one of the nuts on it was gritty sounding.
😂
Don't need gasket maker, spray gasket, copper. Awesome stuff. Won't cause swelling or air pockets and leak. Put directly on gasket.
I have never worked on a Suzuki bottom end, that is an interesting assembly design they came up with.
Sometimes transmission gears have washers/spacers.. and sometimes those are directional.. I learned the hard way during training at MMI.. had a Honda CRF250R I disassembled and rebuilt.. put a washer on backwards and it would shift out of second.. same problem. Get the service manual and measure everything in the transmission.. it's the only way you will know..
Shift fork is out of tolerance there is a minimum and maximum amount of material at the end of the shift fork the manual will give the shift fork tolerance. That fork that is shiny compared to the other shift fork is more likely out of tolerance . That's why it slipping out of gearing second. Happens when you beat on the transmission.
That’s always been my biggest fear working on a gear box but you make it look so easy, I did a top end an had to rebuild some forks on a bike that had a bad crash, I cannot believe I did it just from reading a manual I was only about 15 ,I had to buy a new front wheel for a KDX 200 , they sent me one for a 125 it would not fit but they sent me the right one this was before internet an the motorcycle breakers would use this type of computer they called it a fish for some reason
Love your videos man!
It's about time for Wysco to sponsor your builds!!
That shift drum is possibly alright still. Which leaves you still needing A clutch pack with spacer plates. A good pre soaking solution I know of is PB blaster sprayed over that fiber disc's and the actual wet clutch moto oil to. The penetrating oil helps as A speedy pre soaking process procedure is all. It basically speeds it up faster is all.
After looking at your previous video about this quad, My bad, you have now syncro rings in the transmission.
But you mentioned one of the shift forks had a little wear on it. It could be a gear wants to disingage itself pushing up against that shift fork. But I'm convinced! there's something in the gear train that isn't right!
If you're stumped about it, bring it into a manual transmission place. I can see this happening if you had syncros but it doesn't look like it. I'm convinced it's in the gear train
Someone was doing hole shots with that quad, shifting into 2'nd gear from a standstill, with the engine revving. Always use the clutch when trying a hole shot.
Im a certified yamaha mechanic. You should use a gray sealant for case halves. Its designed for high torque applications. I highly recommend the Yamabond motorsport 4. Its what yamaha calls for on its engines. Its made by threebond.
Joe I would use emerycloth not sandpaper on those Piston pre drilled holes next time and some penetrating oil to remove the bits with for A smooth finish. wipe it off with soft paper towels clean.
There was one for sale on FB marketplace for $1500. It was mint condition, the owner was given it as part of a payment and didn't know anything about it. The owner before him restored it completely, it looked like he just bought brand new and was selling it. I was gonna buy it but backed out last minute because I wanted a dirtbike. I'm kicking myself now for letting go, I'll never get an opportunity like that again.
Please, for the love of God ! Do a right hand doughnut ! ! Just 1.. Thanks for the great content and hard work.
There not even donuts
😂
Try fitting the engine mount on the head that joins to the frame that is missing, the vibration caused by this could also cause it to jump out of gear. Shot in the dark ✌🏻
I would replace the shift drum and the plates. That bolt missing for that long has caused the slightest bit of wear that may seem fine to you but under a micrometer you'd notice. The basket and forks are fine because they still work in all other gears
If it jumps out of gear one time, the shift fork is now bent. Replace the fork and check the engagement dogs on 2nd gear. You can have a 3 degree angle ground into the dogs to help the gear draw in on shifts.
with the engine together check the thrust movement on the shifter drum it may need a washer that doesn;t touch the bearing ive had plenty of these apart cant remember if it holds to the bearing or floats in the bearing try it the most it could cost you is an end plug if it doesn't work
Had a honda 500 farm quad that had a bent shift fork that slipped in 2nd to neutral. Observing the forks, they looked fine until I used a straight edge on each of the fork fingers. When I ordered a new one, the old one was definitely bent. I assume that someone slammed the gears and bent them, especially in 2nd. It pays to be more observent on items like transmission components.
I think that if the shift drum is good and I agree it looked fine, and the shift forks are good, I would be looking towards the 2nd gear is missing it's shims or the existing shims are worn out allowing the gear to simply slide out of contact with it's mating gear on the other shaft.
If you ever come across a 1981 maico 490, buy it with no hesitation. Even the parts are worth good money.
People in the UK go nuts for them.
I had one in 1987 and it was the best bike I ever owned it got stolen in 1989 and I never seen it again.
I had a 90s champ Rx75 man I loved that bike was nicked outside my nans then my pops bought me a 2nd hand PW80 for £100 non runner took spark plug out took the little thread cap off the top warmed it up on the hob started 3rd kick went to pay the lad on it running he'd been trying for 2 years to get it going
@@Lee-At-Green-Pheonix-Rc my maico was pinched out of a garage that was 300 yards from my house..
I found out who pinched it but it was far to late.
@@Lee-At-Green-Pheonix-Rc I had 4 bikes in 1987. 1 maico 490. 2 RM big wheel 80, XT 350... Honda Dominator 🙊
Before u tear it down try the spring on the end of the shift shaft....they lose tension over time and can cause a similar issue...same thing happened w my 88 lt250r
I've had two do same thing .
Im no mechanic but first thing id ask myself is what holds it into a gear or what would cause this issue. Love the vids dude.
Since the shift lever kicks downwards I would assume that the spring loaded mechanism at the bottom under the the shift drum jumps out of its groove. Either it didn't click in at all or engine vibrations at high rpm kick it out.
In the beginning all gears higher than gear two were jumping out, now it is gear two alone. I find that a hint that there is no fault with the gearing itself.
No matter how much you wash them Joe in soapy water it will never fully clean the barrel out or the ports properly,you must clean them in a parts washer or a bucket with either diesel or solvent to clean your parts,then hose them after cleaning them out,you will see the difference!✌️✌️🇦🇺
The same motion it's facing towards to. 👍 🤞 Good luck.
As some have stated it's probably the gear dogs and the mating gear. Any rounding at the corners can be a problem.
Ya don’t always get em on the first try, I’ve taken things apart several times before finding the root cause of a problem. Something must have gotten worn too much with the drum slopping around in there. I’m positive if you think on it for awhile it’ll come to you bud 👍
Bummer! But I know you will get it fixed. Can’t wait to see the culprit.
Love your videos! Thanks for all the tips
I can't wait to see him fix this and show us what it was. I'm waiting to see him figure it out after reading the comments I believe 3rd video is the redemption epic fix video. Yeeeeeeeee beast video 🏁🇺🇲🏞️😎⚡😃🤙🥂⛽
Yepla ..tv time...with joe and vinny...🎉
Check the clutch plates out on it to. It could be burnt now due to burned oil and overheated clutch plate inside of that clutch pack set. From over the years of riding it like that to. They can loose friction and grab due to smooth of surface on the fiber clutch plate disc inside of it.
Did you check the shifter adjustment?
The spring on the shift shaft should be on a bolt with a lobe on it, you turn the bolt and it moves the gear selector.
On the Yamaha Enduros if that is out of adjustment this same thing happens.
hats off to the engineers that design these tools and toys, in most cases. but, not all!
I've had issues like this in the past. Everything looks great, but the problem persists. The only thing that has ever fixed the problem was to replace the parts where the problem exists. Even if you hold the original parts right next to the brand new ones and they look exactly the same but only the new ones work is enough to drive you nuts. I remember having a 1986 Toyota Camry in my shop with a very annoying misfire. After replacing the obvious parts (plugs, wires, cap & rotor), the problem remained. Even after a complete valve job, it was STILL there. We inspected the cam and its housing, and everything looked perfect, yet when the smoke finally cleared, the problem ended up being a warped cam housing. It was the only problem of its kind ever to come through my shop in that particular year make and model and still bugs me to this day.
Excellent video, keep them comming
My experience is that bearings at either end of the transmission can be smooth but worn with excessive clearance, especially cheaper brands.
Use some good tight clearance Japanese or swedish bearings.
So end result is the shafts aren't in alignment and it will slip out of gear.