Singapore's armed forces seem to be unusually well equipped for such a small country. So I was wondering, do the SAF just exist to protect against a hypothetical enemy or are there any actual tensions with Malaysia or Indonesia that would make such a force necessary?
every citizen in Singapore has to go to NS (National Service), this is just a precaution in case a country attacks us,after seeing what has happened across the world.
@Tigergruppen88 The advantage that tanks still offer is that they are still able to repel most weapons. Older anti tank weapons like rpg-7's and Carl Gustav's and the 30mm cannon on IFV's are still defeated and tanks still have serious firepower. The way forward is most likely smaller lightly armored vehicles with advanced active defenses instead of lots of passive armor.
Is our Leopard 2A4 consider a Heavy "Light" weight tank? I watched the video and it seem to be able to speed in all area. Hope they do some video about our newly purchase M142 from USA too. Great job from cyberpioneertv.
@Tigergruppen88 we might have bought the tank as 2nd hand, but we have a long history of upgrading our own fighting vehicle (M113, AMX are a few examples). We shall see more upgrades on A4 as time goes. By the way what's the point acquiring the latest tank but doesn't mean our country own operational needs?
@Jeneral28 erm wrong, the firepower and armour of the Abrams tank proved to be invaluable in many instances in urban fighting when the infantry needed fire support. The Abrams can easily shrug off most of the things the insurgents can throw at it short of an massive IED. Note that for the sheer number of M1s deployed in heavy combat in Iraq, the damage and loss rate is far lower then you'd expect for an AFV seeing that kind of combat. It is very useful in an urban context.
@itom95 Actually It was the T-90 that did 3000KM in the harshest Malaysian Jungle and Malaysia chose the PT-91 over the T-90 cause it was cheaper. the T-90 export model comes at $2.5million.
@Tigergruppen88 Cost is probably the main consideration. The deals you can get on used Leopards are great. Also you really only need to be able to beat your most dangerous rival. As far as I know no one in the region who might attack Singapore has a tank that can compete with the Leopard
@madmode300 You'd be wrong there, mate. Poland had "2 armoured brigades, 4 independent tank battlalions and 30 companies of tanks/tankettes (attached to infantry divs). Wikipedia. Also, check out the 7TP Light Tank, the main Polish tank. According to Wiki, they also had a few Renault R35s and Vickers E tanks.
Leopard 2A4's excellent choice., combat tested in afghanistan, good protection with almost same level as that of the M1A1. and around 100 in use by the SAF. but if it was up to me, i'd buy not yet shown T-95's. 2 crew members required only, which means that there is an increase in armour protection. the only problem is the ARENA/DROZHD capabilities to friendly fire... hopefully STK has some plans for an active defence system for the LEO
The Abrams and T80 versions use gas turbine engines. They have their advantages and disadvantages Advantages: -Less moving parts -> more reliable -Runs on almost any type of fuel -Starts instantly without a warm-up period in cold weather (probably why Russians use them) -Great power-to-weight ratio Disadvantages: -Hot -Thirsty
The Leopard is probably the best tank in the world right now. M1A1 Abram tank is good mainly because of its inbuilt computer aided gadgets. But its BIG. Consumes lots of fuel. Try using in a Southeast Asian terrain and it will be sitting ducks. It performs well mostly in open warfare, in desert against another tanks or armoured vehicles. They don't even dare use it in Afghanistan. In that sense it is the Leopard which is tight, compact, fast, maneuverable, easy to maintain.
I would prefer they get Merkava or at least Leopard 2A5. And what, Germany is already phasing in Leopard 2A7. Btw, what are the tanks armed with? Normal rounds or APFSDS rounds?
@frontlined97 I'd say the modern king tiger is the M1A2 Abrams. It's big, bad, and thus far has never lost a tank on tank fight. The King tiger was the badest of the bad even though it saw little action. Just my opinion though .
i have a feeling the 2A4 is not comparable to other tanks as the front of the turret is flat and not slanted which gives a chance of bouncing of projectiles
@lezbian90 Actually, Malaysia is using Polish tanks based of Russian tank designs, PT-91s as kallosar mentioned. Though SG hasn't yet upgraded to the latest armour (as used by the Bundeswehr), the Leo2 does outclass the PT-91 in terms of technology (laser guidance systems, ECW, etc). Not sure if the PT-91 is one of those auto-loader tanks but from all the analysis I've seen, Soviet bloc auto-loaders are terrible.
@Jeneral28 erm, you need to ask yourself... what exactly do you think the SAF intends to do with it's armoured units. If you are smart, you'll figure it out.
Oh, and to be clear, I mean no disrespect to the Polish defenders of 1939. However, the fact remains - the German Panzers did beat the Polish tanks, either by outmaneuvring, outnumbering, or just plain calling in more help (inf. & air support). They were clear underdogs but gave the Germans a bloody nose
It does not matter, cause tanks are not made for urban environment combat anyway, they are simply a weapon that should not be used in urban places for many reasons....
no the abrams only run on patrol, thats the disadvantage, it requires a large amount of petrtol to feed it. That's its weakness, enemies blow up the soft skins of petrol trucks in order to immobilize the abrams. They run a shorter distance on a full fuel tank compared to others
Just to clear up, the Germans didn't come up with the idea for sloped armour. It was the Russians, with their T-34 tanks. The Germans made use of sloped armour after realizing that their rounds could not penetrate Russian armour.
Are you suggesting that our government throws every single cent in Defence? The 2A4 is very good by modern standards. I saw your profile and you had a few game videos. So, I think you understand the term 'Overkill'...
@Herbymac0811 Agreed. The Leopard 2 is probably the best MBT today espically with the newer A7 series. But you are Right that the M1A2 has the better record due to it's action. However I will mention that the record for the longest range tank kill is held by a Challenger 2. Which I feel is also a better tank than the abrams but not up to the Leopard. The Abrams takes a well deserved 3rd in my book. But then again I'm bias. ;)
The Leo2 A4 55.15to battle weight and 52to empty weight 52to + 1100l fuel + 42rounds main ammo + 2 x MG + MG ammo + 4x crew + gear + tools = 55.15to I am a former Leo2 A4 driver...
@Tigergruppen88 Even the latest Israeli Merkava was knocked out by modern Russian anti tank weapons in Lebanon so I'm not sure how much the new armor package would help. It might just lead to a much more expensive loss. Might be a better investment to put an active armor package on the older tanks rather than a passive kit.
the M1A1 doesn't have any more advanced computer aided "gadgets" than the Leo2A4 does... In fact the absence of a stabilized commander's panoramic sight like the Leo2A4:s PERI makes the Leo2A4 more advanced than the M1A1. Only the A2 with its CITV and C3 system can surpass the Leo (which in turn catches up to it in Leo2A6EX and Strv122 versions)
I've never heard of a tank that can hit a target at a range of 10kms - you are thinking 10 years into the future man! - are you talking about the main gun or if the tank is fitted with missiles???
Can't beat German tank engineering, but Singapore seriously need to upgrade to the Leopard 2A6 models. Always need to stay ahead of your neighbors, esp for city-state Singapore.
@MartimationStudios but if the GERMANS APPROVED WE WLD NOT NNEDTO UPGRADE to L2a6 at all it is the slop armour which deflects anti tank rounds which r much better 4 armoued protection
Ah, the wonderful leopard 2s. I hope we do get soem active protection systems for them, like ARENA. Sure its russian, but heck, even the South Koreans want to get some for their MBT's, and South Koreans are a traditional US ally. Though the M1 is ok, it is impractical to use in Singapore. Too big, massive heat signature, high oil consumption, but it has the same weapon as the Leopard 2. No wonder the Leopard 2 has enjoyed more exports than the M1. Bravo!
@itom95 Indeed? It does sound like they have what is trying to be a technologically advanced MBT. But I have never seen a good autoloader so I cannot comment on it and I refuse to insult the Slovakians if they actually did make a good one. The Malaysian army ordered all those bits built into the tank or that the tank be capable of having those bits installed and they're doing that right now?
@Badboy21thekiller i am a german tank driver, yes the 2a6 arre better as the 2a4 but the 2a4 are better as many other tanks in the world. my leo was driving on the german highway at 113 km/h this is not a joke and offroad easy 65 km/h.
@sexkinger just go n tell the cmpb officer that u might consider signing on with armor unit so pls ask them to consider posting u to armor after ur bmt.
When it comes to armoured vehicles nothing beats the Germans. They are the best. In World War II they revolutionized the use of tanks. Not that they have the best tank at that time but they know how best they can be used. Thus the Blitzkreig is born and every military are now adapting to that revolutionary tactics. They dont win WWI though. Just look at how many countries they fought at the same time. Probably 10. Trust the Germans. Leo is the best.
@itom95 then they got got ripped off hella bad. PT-91s were selling for $1 million each in South America fully upgraded..I mean they're inferior versions of the T-90 except Polish modified...and the T-90s go for 2.5million...so they got ripped off bad.
@Bimon1234567 There have been actual tensions since Singapore's independence. Singapore is a non-Muslim, Chinese-majority state in the middle of Islamic countries that are less prosperous than itself. It's not called the Israel of Southeast Asia for no reason. Its a small island city-state of just 700 sq km.
@Jense27369 oo icic so sorry because i am a little mixed up between canadian L2a6 and GermanL2A6 yup thks again for your reply so sorry i was late hey eh dun mind i ask do you go to msn and make friends even though you are in the German armY sry 4 my bad english
@ToiToiToiHerrKaleun The only reason I say that is becouse it has yet to meet something as mean as it is in combat. I agree though the Lepard is a better tank. If I were rolling into combat tomarrow I'd want a lepard. But as it stands right now the M1A2 has no chalenger to it's throne.
lolwut The M1s take dozens, even hundreds, of RPGs over their lifespan. It takes a one in a million hit with the newest RPG to destroy one. Think about how many THOUSAND M1s have been hit, versus the extremely few that've been totally destroyed.
Greetings from Germany,glad you are using our tanks :)
It’s an honour to use your military equipment for our defence
Currently it is Leopard 2 SG.
Singapore's armed forces seem to be unusually well equipped for such a small country.
So I was wondering, do the SAF just exist to protect against a hypothetical enemy or are there any actual tensions with Malaysia or Indonesia that would make such a force necessary?
every citizen in Singapore has to go to NS (National Service), this is just a precaution in case a country attacks us,after seeing what has happened across the world.
If you look closely the model 2A4 has a turret with vertical"wall" while the 2A5 has sloped wall
@Tigergruppen88 The advantage that tanks still offer is that they are still able to repel most weapons. Older anti tank weapons like rpg-7's and Carl Gustav's and the 30mm cannon on IFV's are still defeated and tanks still have serious firepower. The way forward is most likely smaller lightly armored vehicles with advanced active defenses instead of lots of passive armor.
Is our Leopard 2A4 consider a Heavy "Light" weight tank? I watched the video and it seem to be able to speed in all area. Hope they do some video about our newly purchase M142 from USA too. Great job from cyberpioneertv.
the Leopard 2A4 kicks ass!
@Tigergruppen88
we might have bought the tank as 2nd hand, but we have a long history of upgrading our own fighting vehicle (M113, AMX are a few examples). We shall see more upgrades on A4 as time goes.
By the way what's the point acquiring the latest tank but doesn't mean our country own operational needs?
@Jeneral28 erm wrong, the firepower and armour of the Abrams tank proved to be invaluable in many instances in urban fighting when the infantry needed fire support. The Abrams can easily shrug off most of the things the insurgents can throw at it short of an massive IED.
Note that for the sheer number of M1s deployed in heavy combat in Iraq, the damage and loss rate is far lower then you'd expect for an AFV seeing that kind of combat. It is very useful in an urban context.
@itom95
Actually It was the T-90 that did 3000KM in the harshest Malaysian Jungle and Malaysia chose the PT-91 over the T-90 cause it was cheaper. the T-90 export model comes at $2.5million.
The shockwave is omg.
@Tigergruppen88 Cost is probably the main consideration. The deals you can get on used Leopards are great. Also you really only need to be able to beat your most dangerous rival. As far as I know no one in the region who might attack Singapore has a tank that can compete with the Leopard
@madmode300 You'd be wrong there, mate. Poland had "2 armoured brigades, 4 independent tank battlalions and 30 companies of tanks/tankettes (attached to infantry divs). Wikipedia. Also, check out the 7TP Light Tank, the main Polish tank. According to Wiki, they also had a few Renault R35s and Vickers E tanks.
Leopard 2A4's excellent choice., combat tested in afghanistan, good protection with almost same level as that of the M1A1. and around 100 in use by the SAF. but if it was up to me, i'd buy not yet shown T-95's. 2 crew members required only, which means that there is an increase in armour protection. the only problem is the ARENA/DROZHD capabilities to friendly fire...
hopefully STK has some plans for an active defence system for the LEO
The Abrams and T80 versions use gas turbine engines. They have their advantages and disadvantages
Advantages:
-Less moving parts -> more reliable
-Runs on almost any type of fuel
-Starts instantly without a warm-up period in cold weather (probably why Russians use them)
-Great power-to-weight ratio
Disadvantages:
-Hot
-Thirsty
Just a thought, will these battle manuevers be feasible in an urban environment like Singapore? Exactly.
The Leopard is probably the best tank in the world right now. M1A1 Abram tank is good mainly because of its inbuilt computer aided gadgets. But its BIG. Consumes lots of fuel. Try using in a Southeast Asian terrain and it will be sitting ducks. It performs well mostly in open warfare, in desert against another tanks or armoured vehicles. They don't even dare use it in Afghanistan. In that sense it is the Leopard which is tight, compact, fast, maneuverable, easy to maintain.
I would prefer they get Merkava or at least Leopard 2A5. And what, Germany is already phasing in Leopard 2A7. Btw, what are the tanks armed with? Normal rounds or APFSDS rounds?
@frontlined97 I'd say the modern king tiger is the M1A2 Abrams.
It's big, bad, and thus far has never lost a tank on tank fight. The King tiger was the badest of the bad even though it saw little action. Just my opinion though .
i have a feeling the 2A4 is not comparable to other tanks as the front of the turret is flat and not slanted which gives a chance of bouncing of projectiles
The Abrams will actually run on any flammable liquid, even alcohol. That wuold include gasoline and diesel but the standard fuel is JP-8 jet fuel.
@Jense27369 r u a canadian or german anyway ?
hope u dun mind if i ask
What's that tank sim? Steel Beasts?
are these the main battle tanks in singapore but prefer leopard 2A6
@lezbian90 Actually, Malaysia is using Polish tanks based of Russian tank designs, PT-91s as kallosar mentioned.
Though SG hasn't yet upgraded to the latest armour (as used by the Bundeswehr), the Leo2 does outclass the PT-91 in terms of technology (laser guidance systems, ECW, etc). Not sure if the PT-91 is one of those auto-loader tanks but from all the analysis I've seen, Soviet bloc auto-loaders are terrible.
@Jeneral28 erm, you need to ask yourself... what exactly do you think the SAF intends to do with it's armoured units.
If you are smart, you'll figure it out.
What S'pore need , is an upgrading to PSO version with top armor against RPD from buildings !
when i was in army i would love to have the equipment at 3.37 - 3.38 available to mee.
@Herbymac0811 the leopard 2 sg singapore is the most badass most intimidating looking tank.
Oh... and the Swedish Strv103 (The S-tank) had a gas turbine engine too!
Russian ATGMs loved this warrior in Syria ❤
@Herbymac0811 so what modern tank would remind you bout the Königstiger?
@Herbymac0811 wich model? the 2a6? or 2a7?
Boys! too many boys!
after i finish singapore army can i go on and join army from other coutnry?
Oh, and to be clear, I mean no disrespect to the Polish defenders of 1939. However, the fact remains - the German Panzers did beat the Polish tanks, either by outmaneuvring, outnumbering, or just plain calling in more help (inf. & air support). They were clear underdogs but gave the Germans a bloody nose
It does not matter, cause tanks are not made for urban environment combat anyway, they are simply a weapon that should not be used in urban places for many reasons....
@madmode300 in IX 1 1939 German have only panzer 1 and 2, Light and medium-light tanks.
no the abrams only run on patrol, thats the disadvantage, it requires a large amount of petrtol to feed it. That's its weakness, enemies blow up the soft skins of petrol trucks in order to immobilize the abrams. They run a shorter distance on a full fuel tank compared to others
Just to clear up, the Germans didn't come up with the idea for sloped armour. It was the Russians, with their T-34 tanks. The Germans made use of sloped armour after realizing that their rounds could not penetrate Russian armour.
hi . so what is her rank ??
captain or something?
Are you suggesting that our government throws every single cent in Defence? The 2A4 is very good by modern standards. I saw your profile and you had a few game videos. So, I think you understand the term 'Overkill'...
@Herbymac0811 Agreed. The Leopard 2 is probably the best MBT today espically with the newer A7 series. But you are Right that the M1A2 has the better record due to it's action. However I will mention that the record for the longest range tank kill is held by a Challenger 2. Which I feel is also a better tank than the abrams but not up to the Leopard. The Abrams takes a well deserved 3rd in my book.
But then again I'm bias. ;)
i believe theres more..
The Leo2 A4 55.15to battle weight and 52to empty weight
52to + 1100l fuel + 42rounds main ammo + 2 x MG + MG ammo + 4x crew + gear + tools = 55.15to
I am a former Leo2 A4 driver...
@rexregum I fail to see then why there is not a singel SAF MBT training in urban built up areas? Why spend the money for open space tank warfare?
@Tigergruppen88 Even the latest Israeli Merkava was knocked out by modern Russian anti tank weapons in Lebanon so I'm not sure how much the new armor package would help. It might just lead to a much more expensive loss. Might be a better investment to put an active armor package on the older tanks rather than a passive kit.
thx for vid i like it
I believe we have 66 active 2A4s and 30 spares.
@lezbian90
I heard they took the PT-91 which is inferior to modern MBTs over the T-90 because the PT-91 was hella cheap
AVePS is the german counterpart to Arena or Iron Fist
the M1A1 doesn't have any more advanced computer aided "gadgets" than the Leo2A4 does... In fact the absence of a stabilized commander's panoramic sight like the Leo2A4:s PERI makes the Leo2A4 more advanced than the M1A1. Only the A2 with its CITV and C3 system can surpass the Leo (which in turn catches up to it in Leo2A6EX and Strv122 versions)
I've never heard of a tank that can hit a target at a range of 10kms - you are thinking 10 years into the future man! - are you talking about the main gun or if the tank is fitted with missiles???
i form SIR unit as a road army, we follow behind the tank for cover
Can't beat German tank engineering, but Singapore seriously need to upgrade to the Leopard 2A6 models. Always need to stay ahead of your neighbors, esp for city-state Singapore.
so true
Poland has them too :)
@MartimationStudios but if the GERMANS APPROVED WE WLD NOT NNEDTO UPGRADE to L2a6 at all it is the slop armour which deflects anti tank rounds which r much better 4 armoued protection
you know the ones that ACTUALLY go to war
Good very good tanks :)
i like this model, it looks like Tiger 1 from WW2
Ah, the wonderful leopard 2s. I hope we do get soem active protection systems for them, like ARENA. Sure its russian, but heck, even the South Koreans want to get some for their MBT's, and South Koreans are a traditional US ally. Though the M1 is ok, it is impractical to use in Singapore. Too big, massive heat signature, high oil consumption, but it has the same weapon as the Leopard 2. No wonder the Leopard 2 has enjoyed more exports than the M1. Bravo!
@itom95 Indeed? It does sound like they have what is trying to be a technologically advanced MBT. But I have never seen a good autoloader so I cannot comment on it and I refuse to insult the Slovakians if they actually did make a good one.
The Malaysian army ordered all those bits built into the tank or that the tank be capable of having those bits installed and they're doing that right now?
@Badboy21thekiller i am a german tank driver, yes the 2a6 arre better as the 2a4 but the 2a4 are better as many other tanks in the world. my leo was driving on the german highway at 113 km/h this is not a joke and offroad easy 65 km/h.
01:00 ... thats good looking crewmen :p
If I could own my own it would be a Lepard 2A4. Somthing about it reminds me a Tiger tank.
Singapore yeaaaa
@sexkinger just go n tell the cmpb officer that u might consider signing on with armor unit so pls ask them to consider posting u to armor after ur bmt.
yeah
Now Germany A6 or Leopard 2A7. SG shuold upgrade their tanks.
Canadian Army News - Leopard 2A6M Protection
When it comes to armoured vehicles nothing beats the Germans. They are the best. In World War II they revolutionized the use of tanks. Not that they have the best tank at that time but they know how best they can be used. Thus the Blitzkreig is born and every military are now adapting to that revolutionary tactics. They dont win WWI though. Just look at how many countries they fought at the same time. Probably 10. Trust the Germans. Leo is the best.
By the way leopard is now Euro's Main Battle Tank already wen the next 2 model of a7 and L2A8 comes up i tink no need 2 go war liao
tiger tank's turret design on the leopard
@itom95
then they got got ripped off hella bad. PT-91s were selling for $1 million each in South America fully upgraded..I mean they're inferior versions of the T-90 except Polish modified...and the T-90s go for 2.5million...so they got ripped off bad.
yeah! Once armour always armour! Lepoards Rules !
@x3Pot93 i prefer de bradley m2 fighting vehical
@wasssabiboy
Unfortunately Germany exports A4 to us... A6 is perhaps more to their own european preferences ;)
now singapore and indonesia can exercise using both country leo 2a4 together...that we'll be great.
Finnish Leopard 2A4 can move 74km/h and weight 60 tons.... what they have done their tanks when those move 60 km/h and weight 55 tons?
@Skringly Biast ? Maybe, but honest ? Yes.
My oder of best in show is
Lepard #1
M1A2 #2
Challenger 2 #3
@Bimon1234567 There have been actual tensions since Singapore's independence. Singapore is a non-Muslim, Chinese-majority state in the middle of Islamic countries that are less prosperous than itself. It's not called the Israel of Southeast Asia for no reason. Its a small island city-state of just 700 sq km.
They learn how to shoot while moving how about shoot a moving target while moving?
sigh, the L2SG AKA "sandstorm machine"
the true European beast
@Badboy21thekiller i was a driver of the leopard 2a4 in germany, maybe you drive my leopard2. i was in germany in the PzBtl. 24/6. Kompanie
What you show there isnt the Leopard 2A4. Theese leopards still have the old turret!
@Jense27369 oo icic so sorry because i am a little mixed up between canadian L2a6 and GermanL2A6 yup thks again for your reply so sorry i was late hey eh dun mind i ask do you go to msn and make friends even though you are in the German armY sry 4 my bad english
Why peoples say Leopard2 is the best tank if it never has taken part in a war??
Is enough the laboratory statistics to say that???
@Jense27369 hi sorry for my late reply but i really wish i could drive the tank with you someday
I wish India buys a thousand of these beauties.
@ZhengchiJosh YEa i wish also see can get to L2a5
@ToiToiToiHerrKaleun The only reason I say that is becouse it has yet to meet something as mean as it is in combat. I agree though the Lepard is a better tank. If I were rolling into combat tomarrow I'd want a lepard.
But as it stands right now the M1A2 has no chalenger to it's throne.
No malay tank crew?Stupid question...next!
what, we should have also bought the latest leopard 2A6
lolwut
The M1s take dozens, even hundreds, of RPGs over their lifespan. It takes a one in a million hit with the newest RPG to destroy one. Think about how many THOUSAND M1s have been hit, versus the extremely few that've been totally destroyed.
True German only came with high amour plate and powerful gun!
Like Panzer 3 and Tiger and King Tiger 2 Tanks!
I thought it was 62.5 tonnes
It 's probably LOUD because it has DIESEL engine.
U mean Who
@MultiMarcus99
no offense but the leopard is a german tank.... -_-