The School That Got Kicked Out Of DIVISION III For Being Too DOMINANT...
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- Опубликовано: 9 фев 2025
- Imagine every ACC team got together and decided to kick Clemson out of the conference because of how dominant they have been in league play. Or if the SEC did that to Alabama or the Big 10 with Ohio State. It seems unfathomable. Well, back in 2019, St. Thomas, a division three school located in Minnesota was kicked out of its conference because of how dominant it had been. What happened next is something that has never happened in college sports before so you are going to want to stay tuned to find out.
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I Played at a small NAIA school. We played against St. Thomas when they were D3 and got the absolute dog shit beaten out of us. Incredibly physical, well coached, and had really solid athletes for a D3 program
It was because they won 75% of the conference championships in all sports for 15 years in a row. That's unreal. But there are several teams in D3 that shouldn't be there several University of Wisconsin schools should be in D2 and are the size of D2 schools. UW Whitewater especially. A few years back they became the first University ever to win the three main sports national championships in a single season. Basketball, Football, Baseball. They have an enrollment around 13,000 last time I checked which is about where most public D2 schools are no reason they should play in D3. Mount Union comes to mind as well. But honestly most public universities even out a new jersey, New york and Wisconsin should not be in division 3 their enrollment are too high you can Source too many players just through larger enrollment. Considering most D3 schools are universities that are private with about 3,000 students
When I played D3 2006-2009, some of the schools you mentioned were notorious grade farms for OSU, Michigan, UT Austin etc. They had a lot of D1 talent that simply couldn’t get through admissions due to poor academics, so they went to these schools where there is less over-site due to being private schools, “got their grades up” and then transferred to D1. So yeah, you put an OSU roster on a D3 field, and they are going to be dominant.
That being said, if you are “Mac Brown can’t get you through admissions dumb”, beating up on actual D3 teams will probably be the last thing you win in life.
D1, D2, and D3 are not determined by enrollment size. This isn't high school. It is determined by money spent, scholarships given, etc. Wake Forest has an enrollment of 5,500 students. Duke has 6,500.
You really should look more into those enrollment numbers when D1 schools have less than some D2 n D3 schools
Don’t know where you’re coming from on Mt Union. They’ve been a dominant program in D3 for decades because of great coaching, which has led to great recruiting-kids want to play there. Mt Union has a few more than 2,000 students. They’ve got nothing in common with most D2 schools. Schools that are part of large D1 programs should be assigned to a division by enrollment and the resources they have access to, which dwarf those of most D3 schools.
@@justliftit7866might wanna recheck those numbers. You’re talking about two schools with huge graduate school enrollment and reporting their smaller undergraduate enrollment. The median for Div 1 is 8000 students. Wake and duke are both well over that.
these rules where you have to wait a certain number of years are ridiculous. I can understand if it is to discourage division hopping, but their exception to get them to D1 immediately should've given them playoff rights as well.
The biggest reason is to have teams adjust to playing up a level as it is really rare for teams to jump and do what this team had done.
The school exploded recently too, they doubled the amount of buildings on campus and are trying to buy a golf course to expand more
It’s amazing they turned a really bad situation into a golden opportunity
St. Thomas is dominant in all sports.... They have a lot of money, tuition is also high. If you can't get into U of M Twin Cities, Madison, or Iowa, you go to St. Thomas for sports. It's a beautiful campus and a great place to learn (earned my project management certification at the Minneapolis campus).
Moving to D-1 does not seem to have fazed them. The Tommies won the Pioneer League with an undefeated record in conference play. They went 10-1 and were ranked inside the top 25 in the FCS. Their boy's basketball team did very well this year, though their best player did just hit the transfer portal. I agree with Wheat King - a lot of schools in the WIAC could easily make the jump to D2. UW - Oshkosh and UW - Whitewater especially. Whitewater's football arena - Perkins Stadium, aka The Perk - can already fit around 14,000. They broke the D3 attendance record a few years ago when they played Oshkosh in front of nearly 18,000 fans - which is more than some MAC stadiums can hold.
Just proves they had no business being in D3
Going from D3 to D1 n still winning is crazy 😭
The pioneer league isn’t that good though. I got offered by drake when I was in highschool, and they don’t offer scholarships in the pioneer league. I ended up going to whitewater because the game day atmosphere was better and it was really affordable in state tuition.
@@timsenjem8337 I got recruited by the Jack Rabbits, NDSU, and Eastern Michigan. I never got offered, but you’re right. Most of the top tier D3 rosters have guys that aren’t far off from lower level D1 guys.
@@npierce14eh…..the Pioneer league is essentially D3 football…non scholarship. The conference was created when the NCAA ruled that if you’re Division 1, you can’t have a football team play at a lower level. Most schools in the league played lower than Division 1 and came together to play a brand of football that wouldn’t flip the athletic department budget upside down
They weren't kicked out of D3, they were kicked out of the MIAC.
That won’t get views
Kind of misleading title. St. Thomas didn't get kicked out of D3 for being too dominant. They got kicked out of their conference for being too dominant. While they were definitely one of the better schools in D3, they were far from dominant on a national level.
And yes, they will be able to dominate their new conference. In the 3 seasons since joining their new conference, they are 21-3 in conference play
they are in the FCS now and dominating.
If you are from the TC, you either go the the U, ND/NDSU, or St. Thomas. ST and maybe MN state or Bemidji are the main schools people around here go to.
Worth mentioning that St. Thomas plays in the Pioneer League, a non-scholarship league where football is an afterthought for most of the member schools. I have a feeling that once St. Thomas raises enough money to fund football scholarships, they'll leave for the Missouri Valley.
Not only were they not dominant nationally, they never won nationally. Football is king, and they were never good enough to win a national title.
For a second, I thought this video was going to be about Mt Union seeing as they’ve lost like 5 games in the last 10 years or something like that
Mount Union from Alliance OH….been dominated D3 champions for many years…they should move up to D2
The emphasis on football is misleading, because St. Thomas isn't close to being the most dominant football team in D3. Since 1992, Mount Union is 13-8 in the national championship game and has lost three regular season games.
The ironic thing is that they where just sick of getting there asses kicked by st.John’s
Pipsqueak
A loss is a loss.@@JeffreyDahmenator
My alma mater, Saint John's, beat Saint Thomas more often than they lost to them. I can easily see why they opposed the ouster. Saint Thomas might have scared everyone else to death, but Saint John's was unimpressed.
DIII so no one cares
@@JeffreyDahmenator
Let me guess.... You're the kind of guy who goes to malls around this time of year, and tells kids the truth about Santa, just as they're next in line.... Just get off on sh1tting on something (doesn't matter what) as long as you think it might make someone (doesn't matter who) feel sh1tty?
I don't care one way or the other what your opinion may be about, well, anything. But I truly despise your M.O. Maybe you're just bored and lonely. Maybe you're just an a$$hole. Either way, confine your nonsense to the anonymous internet. If you trot that act out in the real world, odds are good it won't go well for you.
Have a nice evening. Be safe.
Saint John’s is legit. They are the only D3 school that offered to pay for a my flight and hotel to come visit them. lol unheard of in D3
The end of the rivalry is sad, but the Tommies belong in D1
Looks like it is working out great for them. Expand the football stadium or build a new one. To my knowledge the Pioneer league does not offer football scholarships for football. The football players should be able to get financial assistance.
I love how this pops up on my RUclips feed a few months before I move in to UST
Make sure you’re at all the football games lol!
The transition for the hockey team didn't go so well. they went from doing OK in their league to going 3-32-1 in their first D1 season lol
The hockey team is good in year 3 though
What's going to hold back ST. Thomas in FCS is their campus is small and there is no room to expand without buying land next to their campus which is super expensive, The ST Thomas is looking for land to build athletics facilities near campus to build a new hockey arena and other athletics facilities. so they might have to bus their student athletes to athletics facilities.
Also why their Minnesota Intercollegiate Athletic Conference one of the reason why they kicked ST. Thomas out because St. Tomas is looked at as a rich kid's school in the Twin Cities because the tuition is super high.
Carleton and St Olaf are both wealthier and more prestigious than St Thomas. I don't think we can chalk this up to that factor.
what are the options for St. Thomas at Allianz Field? It's within walking distance of St. Thomas' campus (OK, a bit of a hike but I walk that far every day) less than five years old and seats about 20K.
If you can't beat em, eliminate em.
Only 1 school in the MIAC voted not to kick them out and that was their arch rival Saint John’s. Their dominance was one thing, but their size compared to the other schools and how they operated athletically pissed off majority of the MIAC.
Drake won the Pioneer League football title this year and beat St. Thomas 52-21 in their regular season matchup. Outside the conference Drake lost to North Dakota 55-7, lost to South Dakota State 70-7, and lost to North Dakota State 66-3.
The pioneer league is weak. It doesn’t offer scholarships. I got recruited by Drake, and I chose UW-Whitewater instead
When I saw this I was thinking football only, and I said, St. Thomas? If anything I would have believed maybe Mt. Union or even UW-Whitewater. North Central College has had recent success, as well as MHB-TX. To me, I never thought of St. Thomas as being too dominant, sorry.
There 20 some MIAC champions compare to the 40 plus of SJU? SJU still has the better record too….
St Thomas will eventually join the Missouri Valley Football conference. Like the other summit league teams that sponsor football. Missouri State has made public their intention to go fbs and that will drive the MVFC to add another school to make scheduling easier. St. Thomas will make another natural rival to the Dakota schools and UNI within the conference.
Lol I go to st Thomas and got recommend this video while on the campus
To be fair there are plenty of lower division schools that shouldn’t be in there division mostly at the d2 level that is why several of them recently went up to division 1
It is tough…Alma College in Alma Mi is DIII 1,400. kids…has high standards…not cheap either..has to compete with these so called DIII……Alma beat Mt Union this year…but lost the next game to a school with 6000 students. I guess my point is they are too big to be DIII
think the D3 conference kicking them out if fair. these schools with 2x the enrollment of other small schools (and worse academics) competing in these conferences of tiny schools have a huge advantage
i have a feeling this is going to happen to the high school i went to.
I was in an Army Reserve unit close to this college in the early 2000s. We used to use their indoor track for our physical fitness tests during the brutal winters. Their facilities were fantastic even then.
I can't really understand this from a money standpoint, when you move up there's more money, more scholarships, more exposure ext. If you're good enough to get accepted in the FCS you might as well just go, I understand the other school programs might struggle, but your program goes from having to be funded in D3 to generating revenue in the FCS. I never understood this until some FCS schools moved into the Sunbelt (FCS to FBS) The money is way better, I've often joked about my school just moving down to actually have a chance at a championship "If any Group of 5 ever wins a championship even with the 12 team playoff they would make movies about it because it's just not going to happen"
There are requirements though, minimum seating for all venues, some conferences have a minimum student enrollment, some conferences have a required average attendance, so it answered my questions about why FCS powerhouses don't just move to the FBS, Idaho went to the sunbelt for one year after their conference collapsed, and I'm pretty sure the sunbelt sent a list of demands for them to stay in that they just couldn't afford.
As a Johnny, we’ll miss our best rival
St. John’s still owns them😬
uh no... lol?
Pipsqueak
Didn’t Saint John’s Collegeville win the last match up and have a winning record against St Thomas?
St. John's did something even more impressive. NAIA Championships in 1963 and 1965. They downed Towson in 1976 for The D3 Natty. TWENTY SEVEN Years later they won their Fourth Natty in general and second and most recent in D3! Same Coach: the late great and very Original John Gagliardi. The patience alone by the Fanbase is astonishing...🤔🏈B.W.
@@madbrowniac7871 Didn’t coach Gagliardi practices without contact? Wonder if anyone is doing that today?
I had heard that He did. Unsure of who carried on His tradition. PLENTY of Teams since 1963 seem to Tackle without Practicing!😂🤣😂😏🏈B.W.
The entire Ivy League Football personnel have done so since 2016. Insisting especially that it cuts down on Player Injuries Dartmouth's Legendary Buddy Teevens has remained most vocal on the issue. In a horrifically ironic twist Coach Teevens himself is facing severe health problems near the end of 2023.😔B.W.
@@madbrowniac7871 Sorry to hear that about Buddy Teevens. Good for the Ivy League, that is awesome.
It really feels like there’s more to your story then either you’re telling us or you just plain don’t know the whole story….
Mount union college in alliance Ohio is part of the OAC (Ohio athletic conference). In modern times they have been the most dominant football team in D3.
I believe they won 4 national titles in the 90s alone. In 2005 they lost their first regular season game in 10 years.
They have never been kicked out of their conference or out of the division.
It was more to do with UST being so dominant in every other sport
MIAC ruined one of the great football rivalries. Thanks guys
Ran track at their stadium love them
1:30 long snapper appearance 😁😁
The legendary Jack Francl
If they played 3A in TX, Cal, Ga, Fl they’d definitely get blew out
imagine a D1 team in group of 5 or power 5 won 10 straight championships I wonder if they get their own realm of divisions 😂
With Toledo on ncaa 06 football I got 9 rings and ongoing
To be the best you beat the best. Getting rid of the quality of your opponents only reduces the quality of your students. Not good lesson to teach.
NSIC mentioned!!!! Go ‘Cats! 👌
I have to assign at least some fault to St Thomas in this situation. They have more undergrads than a number of Div.1 schools (Tulane has about 6000, and they are 10-1 in Div 1 football so far this season, BTW) St Thomas could very easily have moved up to D2 or even 1, if they wanted to. They have the financial resources, and the NCAA has allowed that to happen many times. Why didn't they? Could it be because they didn't want the increased competition that would come with such a move? I wonder.........
They actually have a football camp there every year which I go too
I saw the purple in the thumbnail and thought Mt. Union, but they’re still D-III
Mount Union video probably coming in January
So they are still successful in D1 while the MIAC is back to being irrelevant!
There is much more to college life than football. The MIAC schools are still excellent places to learn and earn a degree. That's what is important.
They had the money, money, money. Other schools do not.
A couple of key points: St Thomas was kicked out of the MIAC, not D-III. If the standard for an athletic conference is commonality among its members, UST did not fit at all. UST's enrollment was up to 3x larger than the smallest MIAC school. In contact sports, this created a dangerous dynamic. There's also an academic imbalance. UST essentially has open enrollment, while at least 3 highly selective MIAC schools couldn't touch 75% of UST athletes from an admissions standpoint. From a philosophical view, any D-III football team that runs up ~100 points against an opponent is rightly viewed as a thug program. The UST football coach can be thanked for triggering the MIAC dominos to fall. Many other, excellent UST coaches suffered the consequences.
Have to question the research when the author is mispronouncing the conference name. No one in the conference says "M-I-A-C" as an acronym. It's pronounced "my-ac" as a word, not an acronym. Also, the fact that the NCAA approved the move from D3 to D1 immediately, shows that everyone knew St Thomas was funding their sports well above typical D3 or D2 programs.
theres no where to kick Clemson out too.
mental gymnastics.
Well, since ALL of the assistant coaches at Alabama make more than probably 90% of the head coaches D1 - D3. And collectively Alabamas coaching salary (Saban earns about 9 million a year) what's that saying, you get what you pay for? The NCAA needs to put a salary cap that is retro NOT grandfathered, so the Sabans can keep making 9mil. Only 4 teams STILL, for the playoffs. They (NCAA) can use the bowl games and make the rosebowl be a part of it. They don't want to because they like new years day. If NCAA brass grew a spine told them. Ya either participate, or you can see D3 teams for the next 100 years.
all the top schools assistant coaches make more then 90 percent of the other schools head coaches, thats not exclusive to Alabama bud.......
Lol they did not get kicked out of D3
d3 jus underrrated
They weren’t kicked out of D3 because they were dominant as they have literally never won a national title…. To describe how weak the MIAC is compared to the WIAC, they wouldn’t even be front runners in the WIAC. Whitewater would have been bludgeoning them out before conference championships. They were kicked out of the MIAC not D3… title blatant misinformation.
i lived in indiana and its val-por-e-zo
Valparaiso University is to busy having white liberals protest instead of trying to compete at any type of sport in that conference.
Saint Paul!!!!
The MIAC are some marks…
They should move up, go D1 if you're that damn good. Who cares about some school smashing D3 schools, move up, and then you can brag!
go auggies baby!!
This is hilarious, that is not what happened at all. St Thomas was KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY violating mission statements involving where money comes from and how it is spent. Tell me how and why a D3 team needs a 2 million dollar TV budget to air their home games with an average attendance of less than 5,000 per game? It had nothing to do with dominance. Saint John's and St. Benedict own them in every sport for Conference championships, NATIONAL championships, and attendance records. They were blatantly disregarding the conference agreements as far as how much of the schools endowment is spent on athletics versus everything else. As someone who played against this football team at their "Peak" (ranked #2 with a 38 game home win streak) and BEAT THEM 2 out of 3 times, St. Thomas isn't shit, everyone in this state hates them, and most people who attend that school hate each other. This is a bad video full of bias and incorrect statements but that isn't surprising coming from anyone who views St. Thomas in a positive light. And FYI, the schools that regularly beat St. Thomas, which yes, St. Thomas got regularly beat season after season by certain schools, voted to keep them in because we liked beating St. Thomas.
This is important context. Schools aren't D1, D2 or D3 simply based on size or enrollment. Yes, D3 schools tend to be smaller, but there are D1 schools with a smaller enrollment than some D3 schools. One of the primary differentiators in a D3 school is its philosophy on student athletics, which includes things like not having athletic scholarships, how they recruit, budget spent on athletics compared to academics, etc. Those schools agree to compete at the D3 level because they believe a certain way about athletics and agree to play by certain rules. Violating those is an ethical issue, not a competitive one.
Pipsquak
Did they advance to D2?
They are division 1 fcs now
@@EmbracetheGrind nice I didn't know that👍
@@EmbracetheGrind some schools skills and talents are superior at recruiting then other universities/colleges.
@@jmzsil but most schools don't have 5 times the amount of students as their conference competitors. That would be like a highschool from a town with 1000 people being in one with a town of 5000 people. There are levels for a reason.
Dominant in D3 ??? Hardly... If you havent even won ONE natty... you cant claim any type of dominance... LOL
My dad went there
Avoid Harvard
good documentary. maybe back off on putting such a heavy emphasis on the last word of every sentence THOUGH.
thanks
Spoiled rich kid school
Learn how to pronounce Valparaiso