You all probably dont care but does anybody know a tool to get back into an Instagram account? I was dumb forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can give me!
In the past couple years that I've been watching your videos I have to say I've really learned a whole lot (for a layman mechanic) but every time I can't help but think "damn these things are well thought out, especially considering how old these engines are..." It's been an education, sir, and I hope you keep sharing with us for a long time. Cheers, from the opposite side of the country!
+Dawn Alderman It's hard sometimes to maintain that level of trust over such vast distances, but just know Dawn, that my love for you never varies in its brightness.
+AgentJayZ thanks for sharing old secret russian technique. I feel you trust, and we will be worthy. By the way, I bet, they do all of them in such way. Fortuitously I know the name of it "с помощю кувалды и ёбаной матери" ~= with help of sledgehammer and spell.
I love that you're doing another shop video. I enjoy the Q&A videos very much, but this style of video is my favorite and the ones I share with friends to get them hooked on the channel. Thank you.
Can I just add that the lock plates also act as sealing plates to prevent excessive under-platform leakage. This principle is very typically 'Derby', in respect of R-R engines. Compare and contrast this with what you will be familiar with on the (very Bristolian) Industrial Olympus LP turbine, which has a retaining tang at the front end of the firtree root and a little locking tab that gets bent over at the rear (the 593 LP turbine is exactly the same). With the design of the Olympus 'C' rated LPT blades, we had to stick sealing plates onto the front faces of the firtree roots, because, with the redesigned blades, the lug extensions at the back of the disc firtree lobes didn't provide adequate sealing.
I was watching the movie Guardians of the Galaxy today and after some "spaceship" crash scenes towards then end there were parts of turbine engines laying around. I knew very little about jet engines before watching your videos. It was fun being able to actually name the parts in the debris and knowing what they do. I just wanted to say thanks for all the videos. I find them fascinating and entertaining.
+Greg Hammond The BBC did just that in on of their sci-fi programmes (Brit spelling!) some years ago - it might have been Dr Who, if you've come across him in your neck of the woods. I was even able to identify the engine type that the parts had come from! PS I'll correct that, with Darren D in mind: ' ... from which the parts had come'.
So, when disassembling, how do you get the first one out. Opposite procedure, I guess. A screwdriver under each edge and lever them up? But then that will damage the adjacent ones, so that can't be what you do.
+steelfabric Judging by the damage to some of them seen at 3:29, I'd say they stick a pick or small screwdriver in and bend one out to start the process.
I assume if you work around the entire circle pushing the locking plates one direction you could open up a small gap (even .0001 tolerance over more than a hundred blades would add up)
I am trying to build my own jet engine, with the knowledge i get from AgentJayZ about jet engines. First jet engine that i build failed to self sustain. Hopefully with the next one i have more luck :P Tank you AgentJayZ
i would have thought you had some sort of homemade large "C" clamp to gently straighten the lock, that seemed to work rather well so I guess why re-invent the wheel. Great to see some build video but everything you put out is top shelf. Thanks for all you do Jay.
I was actually thinking of using a large 'C' clamp to press the bent tab back into place. That way you'd have both sides supported and no "banging" would be required. Having said that, you method works, and that's what counts! Thanks for divulging the ultra top secret method for completing the task!! LOL
+BeachBow A very large C-clamp, with specially machined aluminum feet for each pad that would allow it reach into the correct area. It would take two people to operate... and you would finish the job with a tap from a hammer on an aluminium drift. My way, which you seem to think is only adequate, is the best way. It does work, and it's the way described in the assembly manual.
+AgentJayZ For many years, I've repeated an ancient engineering saying: "When all else fails, RTFM!" In other words, "Read the ****ing manual!" I even quoted it, suitably expurgated, at my daughter's wedding!
Doing research and testing for JPL in L.A. on the feasibility of using tiles as heat shields during re-entry of the Space Shuttle into the atmosphere in the early 70s we used to Muse about such things, also "loose lips sink ships" You wouldn't believe the kind of radiation in the spectrums of heat, sound radio and light a torch of that magnitude would emit!
+MrWarwick15 Yes, I thought that I heard Van Halen - and I thought I heard Human League during a previous video, although they're not to my taste. C'mon (sorry, Darren - that's not good English), how about ZZ Top or Black Sabbath?
+grahamj9101 +MrWarwick15 +AgentJayZ Northern BC sure has some strange wildlife. Perhaps you mistook the sounds of some of them for rock music. You wouldn't be the first. ;)
Haha! Great vid Jay :D though for a sec you were gonna keep it a secret! I guess my burning question now is how would you get that plate off? Thanks for the vid
It's interesting how such a small piece of metal can upset the balance of the whole rotating assembly. But I guess at 17k rpm, every gram counts. I'm curious on balance weights, how much are we talking about to balance out this hpc rotor? a gram, 10, 100? I like the mechanical videos and all the others also. Thanks again.
AgentJ......the gloves are to keep your hands warm, or is there another reason for there use? I would assume, it would make it harder to place the locking clips in with the gloves on.
Haha funny. I trust and respect you massively Jay, but I think it's funny mentioning the gentleness of the use of a hammer in jet engines because every part is precious, rare, and delicate, then using a hammer to pound one of the rare pieces into position. Doesn't bending the part and pounding it back in cause metal fatigue making it unusable for more than a couple rounds of overhauls? If installing it is that indelicate a process, how do you extract them in the first place? Does it equally require bending one out to get them all removed? And with what, a screwdriver? Also, I think I've watched virtually all of your videos and have never spotted the framed print I sent you. Is it in the shop or did you take it home? ;) Love your videos and your awesome demonstration skills. You're a natural teacher and should consider teaching mechanic school when you retire from pounding locking plates. :)
I have always wondered how those grooves (labyrinth seals) in the hub of those wheels work. I used to grind those grooves in from a solid years ago, it took hours and was incredibly noisy and nerve wracking as the compound angles and full radius bottom generated a lot of heat and noise.
+Robert Szasz It's also down (to a significant extent) to the repeated successive expansions from the small clearances over the individual labyrinth fins into the downstream volumes.
Hi I'm really enjoying your vids. I'm not a machinist or mechanic but do enjoy high quality bits an pieces and the precision involved. I do have a question regarding high bypass fans on commercial airliners. I understand the workings but it appears to me that a lot of the hardware and plumbing of the engine itself is exposed to the flow of the fan. Is this the case and if so does this effect the smooth flow and expose components to damage? Cheers Rob
+05Cat28 Many newer airliner newer engines have a cowling around the core, but you are right - many earlier turbofans had a lot of drag-ey stuff just hanging out in the high speed breeze. This has puzzled a lot of us for years. The best person to answer that one is a turbine engine design engineer. I suspect one will magically appear soon to enlighten us...
+AgentJayZ Are you dropping a hint in my direction, AgentJayZ? All of the high by-pass turbofans, whether small, medium or large, that I have come across do have cowled/faired cores. Many of them (but not the R-R RB211/Trent range - and several others) have the gearbox and the accessories mounted on the core. It is both necessary (for protection) and beneficial (in terms of drag reduction) to have all that 'gubbins' (quaint UK English word!) covered by fairings. Equally, the low by-pass turbofans, whether ancient or modern, that I have come across typically do not have fairings around the core. However, all that 'gubbins' stuff is typically mounted on the outer casings and there are relatively fewer things in the way of the by-pass flow, which, in any case, is diffused to a lower velocity downstream of the fan. OK, there are a few fuel, oil and air tubes crossing the by-pass duct, plus a few flanges protruding into the by-pass flow. Nevertheless, some aerodynamicist and/or performance engineer (not me - I just designed the machinery) must have done the sums and decided that the losses weren't worth the trouble of the additional weight and cost of fairings. To digress slightly, I am aware of a Russian military turbofan that has a tubular air-to-air heat exchanger in its by-pass duct, which must cause significant blockage. The resultant losses must be worth the additional cooling available to the turbine (I assume), otherwise it wouldn't have been incorporated in the duct.
Thanks for this...dumb question, but does the balancing machine need to be balanced? If so, can you explain how overall balance is verified? I am very curious about balance. With such tight tolerances, how does one ensure that the balancer itself is installed properly? Not sure you are up for it, but an automatic time lapse video of a balance would be way cool...not that you have time for it. Enjoy the spring!
+Bill Clark The balance arbor - the metal shaft to which the disc is mounted, was balanced as close to zero before use. I took a day, to the point where the machine was asking for 0.07 grams of weight to be applied. I used a tiny piece of tape, that I had to keep checking was still there. I wrote the mass and traced the location on the shaft in felt pen, and hopefully assumed the ink was an insignificant mass.
+AgentJayZ Thanks for the answer. Does the machine need to be balanced before EACH job? I'm thinking I'm going to go back and watch the old balancer video...unless you want to do a refresher for us ;-)
just wondering, how many grams out of balance is "acceptable" according to the spec sheets? especially if you stack them up 20 fold at the compressor side it would add up considerably to have a couple of grams on each rotor.
So now I find myself wondering how you get the first locking plate out when you are disassembling, particularly as you say they are rare and can't afford to destroy one.
a question: do you mark this final pin for future reference? i suppose that since you bend it, it loses some of its strength, so i thought maybe you would not want to bend the exact same pin if you have to take this engine appart again
Could you move two of the blades into a "half in" position and sit the plate in at an angle and then use some aerospace percussive force to move them forwards and lock into place?
hmm, it would be interesting to have a similar plate that lines up in both slots before the blade is driven all the way forward on the disc and seating the blade pushes the plate into final locked position. I'm guessing someone already has a patent for it if it's not on a turbine yet.
Well poot. And here I was thinking I had the next sliced bread. I guess Strength, Weight, and Cost were most important and so long as it can be installed all is good.
I was thinking why wouldn't they just have a small screw whose head would cover part of the fir tree, but Grahamj9101 answered it below. Great video, got me wondering what kind of a security clearance I would need...
+1metiz It is only when some of the locking plates are being installed. The turbine is falling to have the installed plates at the bottom. When they are all installed you will notice this is not happening.
I got a question ... how you going to balance the HPT without balancing the HPC and it's parts since the moto sich overhaul manual calls out the rotation plan while the HPT is attached to the HPC drum...and also can you sell me some of those lock plates?
AgentJayZ, how does a Zero Stage work ? I did try to understand that it adds zero compression to the jet engine but how does it add overall pressure rise to a jet engine (thus boosting an older jet engine design) ?
+BillyNoMates1974 What is a zero stage? When an established design is updated and uprated, sometimes an additional stage is added to the front of the compressor to boost airflow. Instead of renaming all of the other stages so that the new stage is called "stage 1", the new stage is called stage zero. This avoids much confusion because all the parts that were already in the design keep the names they already have. So a zero stage is just a naming convention.
+BillyNoMates1974 Now you understand about a zero stage, I will tell you that the Avon RA29 aero engine and its derivative, the Industrial Avon 1533 had a double-zero stage added in front of the zero stage. Another bit of information which you might find interesting (or useless, depending on your point of view) is the fact that, when we deleted the fan and LP turbine from the 3-shaft RB211 aero engine, to produce the 2-shaft Industrial B211, we did not rename the IP compressor and turbine and their component parts, to avoid confusion.
Yes, when I occasionally worked with the RB211 team at TCT, I was interested to see that we worked on the HP and IP systems, and that there wasn't an LP system on the industrial version of that airliner powerhouse.
+AgentJayZ Yes, I was the young upstart who proposed that we continued with the nomenclature. It seemed obvious to me, as an LP compressor and turbine containing so-called common aero parts with 'IP compressor' labels on them could cause confusion.
Why is your hammer not made from aluminium? Since the forces on it are so low, you might as well reduce the potential risk of damage by having less steel around soft parts.
As stated above, I've never seen an aluminum hammer, mallet, whatever. Brass, copper and lead do not apply to your first comment. Let's not become a moving target, Hmm?
+janusroenlev I've seen soft-headed (typically nylon) mallets used in certain applications, eg, tapping turbine blades with interlocking shrouds into place. Nevertheless, I think you are on the wrong track suggesting that AgentJayZ takes even a soft-headed mallet of any description to that locking plate. His Alum drift, being held in position before the blow, delivers the necessary force in just the right place.
Would you be able to use a vice with small pads to bend that last plate into place? That way you could avoid using any form of impact on the turbine. Also, how difficult would it be to fabricate new plates to secure the blades?
+eivilcow33 In a cartoon world, yes. In the real world, removing the turbine from the machine, and disassembling the arbour takes a half hour. Then how do you hold it in the vice while you tighten it. It's over 100lbs of awkwardness. Then, first thing you need to do after locking the plate in... is final balancing. See all the time we've wasted to do a lesser job of balancing?
+AgentJayZ whoops wrong tool, I meant C clamp, not vice. That way you can still do it on the balance machine. though you might need to use a wrench to crank it down to bend the plate.
+eivilcow33 I would implicitly trust a skilled and experienced technician and craftsman, such as AgentJayZ, wielding a hammer and a soft Aluminium (sorry, Aluminum) drift to flatten a pre-bent locking plate. Why go to the complication and time-consuming use of a cramp or press device? And for the person who suggested using an Alumin(i)um hammer, the placing of a drift against the plate is far more precise and repeatable than hitting the plate with a hammer. PS It was a real pleasure to see you at work, AgentJayZ!
grahamj9101 GJ, you are just encouraging more of these comments. Armchair experts are always right, and very willing to make my job "better". Did you find that as an engineer?
Hello Jay; I see your point about a lot of effort just to stop axial movement! Speaking of Rolls Royce, have you heard from grahamj9101 lately? His absence seems odd so hope he is OK. Thanks for showing this technique & no, I don't deserve these secret tidbits. I have some mechanical talent but I am a hack at gas turbine engines in comparison to you. A couple of friends & I have the J44's hot section off and that cooked turbine nozzle out. We all admired this 'different' engineering, even with this simple, 'disposable' design! Thanks for the education. DD
+Darren Duncan grahamj9101 is out there. I've been trying to get him to start his own channel. If you think that's a good idea like his comments and let him know.
+Darren Duncan Hi Darren/everyone. Yes, I'm back in circulation, having been out to the Caribbean for a couple of weeks' sailing. However, I came back to commitments to support several STEM and Bloodhound Ambassador events, which meant that I had to get my PowerPoint presentations updated. I had fun on Wednesday, demonstrating my water-powered rockets, made from 2 litre (you'd say 'soda'?) bottles. With 4 atmos pressure, they will comfortably clear the length of a football (soccer to you) field. I'm off again to foreign parts (Wales) next week for another event. I also have other professional and domestic (like being a Grandpa) commitments, which keep me busy. I keep getting nudges to set up my own channel, but much of my time is already taken up. OK, I'll give it serious consideration, but first I need to get a camcorder and get in some practice.
+AgentJayZ 10-4, good buddy! His comment is 'liked'. It seems he has quite an interesting life, aside from G.T. engines so I will bet he can create some interesting videos!
I've been looking at camcorders - any advice? However, I must start counting the pennies, as I've got two trips to Singapore planned, another grandchild on the way, and thoughts of replacing my car next year.
+grahamj9101 Good to hear from you G. J.; I will encourage you to work-up a Y. T. channel, complete with Power Point, to share some of your knowledge. Heck, get a Go Pro with a waterproof case and show us some sailing! This would contrast nicely with Jay's river racing boats! Take care and to use some good ol' 'country' grammar, "Your comment has done been liked." ; )
The punch is made of a material softer than the parts you are beating on, so any damage happens to the punch. Brass is one step harder than aluminum, but still softer than steel. A steel punch is used only as a last resort, and with extreme care. Only hacks and complete idiots hit engine parts directly with a steel hammer.
There is a procedure, written by the manufacturer. Failure to follow that procedure will result in you being reassigned. You only get a couple chances, and then you are out.
Thank you Jay! You really had me there for a second ... glad I stuck through to the reward at the end!
I almost threw and over ripe tomato as my monitor.
Thanks for the video AgentJayZ.
You all probably dont care but does anybody know a tool to get back into an Instagram account?
I was dumb forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can give me!
@Ellis Kase Instablaster :)
In the past couple years that I've been watching your videos I have to say I've really learned a whole lot (for a layman mechanic) but every time I can't help but think "damn these things are well thought out, especially considering how old these engines are..." It's been an education, sir, and I hope you keep sharing with us for a long time. Cheers, from the opposite side of the country!
The whole time, I was thinking "But what about the last one?" @7:00 I hated your guts. @11:08 I loved you again. Thanks. Great video.
+Dawn Alderman It's hard sometimes to maintain that level of trust over such vast distances, but just know Dawn, that my love for you never varies in its brightness.
+AgentJayZ thanks for sharing old secret russian technique.
I feel you trust, and we will be worthy.
By the way, I bet, they do all of them in such way.
Fortuitously I know the name of it "с помощю кувалды и ёбаной матери" ~= with help of sledgehammer and spell.
I love that you're doing another shop video. I enjoy the Q&A videos very much, but this style of video is my favorite and the ones I share with friends to get them hooked on the channel. Thank you.
The extra footage gets this video a definite thumbs up!
Can I just add that the lock plates also act as sealing plates to prevent excessive under-platform leakage. This principle is very typically 'Derby', in respect of R-R engines. Compare and contrast this with what you will be familiar with on the (very Bristolian) Industrial Olympus LP turbine, which has a retaining tang at the front end of the firtree root and a little locking tab that gets bent over at the rear (the 593 LP turbine is exactly the same). With the design of the Olympus 'C' rated LPT blades, we had to stick sealing plates onto the front faces of the firtree roots, because, with the redesigned blades, the lug extensions at the back of the disc firtree lobes didn't provide adequate sealing.
that was so satisfying to watch. thanks again Jay.
I just love your videos, keep up the good work jay.
I was watching the movie Guardians of the Galaxy today and after some "spaceship" crash scenes towards then end there were parts of turbine engines laying around. I knew very little about jet engines before watching your videos. It was fun being able to actually name the parts in the debris and knowing what they do. I just wanted to say thanks for all the videos. I find them fascinating and entertaining.
+Greg Hammond The BBC did just that in on of their sci-fi programmes (Brit spelling!) some years ago - it might have been Dr Who, if you've come across him in your neck of the woods. I was even able to identify the engine type that the parts had come from! PS I'll correct that, with Darren D in mind: ' ... from which the parts had come'.
So, when disassembling, how do you get the first one out. Opposite procedure, I guess. A screwdriver under each edge and lever them up? But then that will damage the adjacent ones, so that can't be what you do.
+steelfabric exactly what I was wondering
+steelfabric
Take an aerospace angle grinder and cut it out ;)
I'd really like to know as well.
+steelfabric Judging by the damage to some of them seen at 3:29, I'd say they stick a pick or small screwdriver in and bend one out to start the process.
+superdau Yes, this way... with great care.
I assume if you work around the entire circle pushing the locking plates one direction you could open up a small gap (even .0001 tolerance over more than a hundred blades would add up)
Thanks for sharing your secret with us all just for stay watching your explanations, which a real pleasure by itself, till the end.
I am trying to build my own jet engine, with the knowledge i get from AgentJayZ about jet engines. First jet engine that i build failed to self sustain. Hopefully with the next one i have more luck :P Tank you AgentJayZ
Great video. Thanks for sharing and thanks for your time Jay.
i would have thought you had some sort of homemade large "C" clamp to gently straighten the lock, that seemed to work rather well so I guess why re-invent the wheel. Great to see some build video but everything you put out is top shelf. Thanks for all you do Jay.
+hommie789 That's a good idea!
Nicely done. Thank you for sharing the process.
The locking plates also make for very good sealing of the root neck, it keeps the cooling air in and prevents hot gas ingestion in the neck area.....
Ah, suspense... LOVE YOUR WORK!
Les, from down under
Yah! I love those shop videos, thank you!
I was actually thinking of using a large 'C' clamp to press the bent tab back into place. That way you'd have both sides supported and no "banging" would be required. Having said that, you method works, and that's what counts! Thanks for divulging the ultra top secret method for completing the task!! LOL
+BeachBow A very large C-clamp, with specially machined aluminum feet for each pad that would allow it reach into the correct area. It would take two people to operate... and you would finish the job with a tap from a hammer on an aluminium drift.
My way, which you seem to think is only adequate, is the best way. It does work, and it's the way described in the assembly manual.
Apologies. Didn't intend to imply that your way was in any way inadequate to the task. Just curious about different methods.
+AgentJayZ For many years, I've repeated an ancient engineering saying: "When all else fails, RTFM!" In other words, "Read the ****ing manual!" I even quoted it, suitably expurgated, at my daughter's wedding!
You should see the balancer we use to balance turbochargers that turn at over 100,000rpm. Not as beefy as yours is for sure, but just as precise.
+Yucannt Hahvitt Alright, chief... let me have it, but for security, we'd better use the cone of silence...
Doing research and testing for JPL in L.A. on the feasibility of using tiles as heat shields during re-entry of the Space Shuttle into the atmosphere in the early 70s we used to Muse about such things, also "loose lips sink ships" You wouldn't believe the kind of radiation in the spectrums of heat, sound radio and light a torch of that magnitude would emit!
Cool, thanks Jay! Van Halen in the background too!
Rich.
+MrWarwick15 Yes, I thought that I heard Van Halen - and I thought I heard Human League during a previous video, although they're not to my taste. C'mon (sorry, Darren - that's not good English), how about ZZ Top or Black Sabbath?
+grahamj9101 +MrWarwick15 +AgentJayZ Northern BC sure has some strange wildlife. Perhaps you mistook the sounds of some of them for rock music. You wouldn't be the first. ;)
You have a great sense of humour! Thanks :)
C*ck tease lol
Well...............now I feel like an ass. lol
Nice work Jay 🤗
Haha! Great vid Jay :D though for a sec you were gonna keep it a secret! I guess my burning question now is how would you get that plate off? Thanks for the vid
...nice thing that those locking plates are malleable!
respect from turkish engine center brah
Thank you
great video agent jay z,love the ending lol:)
It's interesting how such a small piece of metal can upset the balance of the whole rotating assembly. But I guess at 17k rpm, every gram counts. I'm curious on balance weights, how much are we talking about to balance out this hpc rotor? a gram, 10, 100? I like the mechanical videos and all the others also. Thanks again.
AgentJ......the gloves are to keep your hands warm, or is there another reason for there use?
I would assume, it would make it harder to place the locking clips in with the gloves on.
the scientific application of brute force at its best, nice one!
thanks for shering.....I was guessing that You had acustom made pair if pliers for the lasr one....
Haha funny. I trust and respect you massively Jay, but I think it's funny mentioning the gentleness of the use of a hammer in jet engines because every part is precious, rare, and delicate, then using a hammer to pound one of the rare pieces into position. Doesn't bending the part and pounding it back in cause metal fatigue making it unusable for more than a couple rounds of overhauls? If installing it is that indelicate a process, how do you extract them in the first place? Does it equally require bending one out to get them all removed? And with what, a screwdriver?
Also, I think I've watched virtually all of your videos and have never spotted the framed print I sent you. Is it in the shop or did you take it home? ;)
Love your videos and your awesome demonstration skills. You're a natural teacher and should consider teaching mechanic school when you retire from pounding locking plates. :)
+Dario Impini
Single use item. Removal is the subject for a possible, distant future video.
nice thanks for sharing.
WE ARE NOT WORTHY!!!! lol thanks Jay!
Master Jet guy!
I hope that wasn't one of those thing where "I can tell you, but I'll have to kill you" is it? Wait, someone'sat the dooo...
I have always wondered how those grooves (labyrinth seals) in the hub of those wheels work. I used to grind those grooves in from a solid years ago, it took hours and was incredibly noisy and nerve wracking as the compound angles and full radius bottom generated a lot of heat and noise.
A long, narrow, twisty path creates a huge resistance to flow.
+Robert Szasz It's also down (to a significant extent) to the repeated successive expansions from the small clearances over the individual labyrinth fins into the downstream volumes.
Hi
I'm really enjoying your vids. I'm not a machinist or mechanic but do enjoy high quality bits an pieces and the precision involved. I do have a question regarding high bypass fans on commercial airliners. I understand the workings but it appears to me that a lot of the hardware and plumbing of the engine itself is exposed to the flow of the fan. Is this the case and if so does this effect the smooth flow and expose components to damage?
Cheers
Rob
+05Cat28 Many newer airliner newer engines have a cowling around the core, but you are right - many earlier turbofans had a lot of drag-ey stuff just hanging out in the high speed breeze. This has puzzled a lot of us for years.
The best person to answer that one is a turbine engine design engineer.
I suspect one will magically appear soon to enlighten us...
+AgentJayZ Are you dropping a hint in my direction, AgentJayZ? All of the high by-pass turbofans, whether small, medium or large, that I have come across do have cowled/faired cores. Many of them (but not the R-R RB211/Trent range - and several others) have the gearbox and the accessories mounted on the core. It is both necessary (for protection) and beneficial (in terms of drag reduction) to have all that 'gubbins' (quaint UK English word!) covered by fairings. Equally, the low by-pass turbofans, whether ancient or modern, that I have come across typically do not have fairings around the core. However, all that 'gubbins' stuff is typically mounted on the outer casings and there are relatively fewer things in the way of the by-pass flow, which, in any case, is diffused to a lower velocity downstream of the fan. OK, there are a few fuel, oil and air tubes crossing the by-pass duct, plus a few flanges protruding into the by-pass flow. Nevertheless, some aerodynamicist and/or performance engineer (not me - I just designed the machinery) must have done the sums and decided that the losses weren't worth the trouble of the additional weight and cost of fairings. To digress slightly, I am aware of a Russian military turbofan that has a tubular air-to-air heat exchanger in its by-pass duct, which must cause significant blockage. The resultant losses must be worth the additional cooling available to the turbine (I assume), otherwise it wouldn't have been incorporated in the duct.
+agentjayz was that the original way of placing those plates or was there another tricky trick to getting them in?
Thanks AgentJayZ.
Very good thanks man
masterclass jay :0) thanks ...and yes im feeling lucky thanks again mate awesome channel
I feel so lucky!
Thanks for this...dumb question, but does the balancing machine need to be balanced? If so, can you explain how overall balance is verified? I am very curious about balance. With such tight tolerances, how does one ensure that the balancer itself is installed properly? Not sure you are up for it, but an automatic time lapse video of a balance would be way cool...not that you have time for it. Enjoy the spring!
+Bill Clark The balance arbor - the metal shaft to which the disc is mounted, was balanced as close to zero before use. I took a day, to the point where the machine was asking for 0.07 grams of weight to be applied. I used a tiny piece of tape, that I had to keep checking was still there. I wrote the mass and traced the location on the shaft in felt pen, and hopefully assumed the ink was an insignificant mass.
+AgentJayZ Thanks for the answer. Does the machine need to be balanced before EACH job? I'm thinking I'm going to go back and watch the old balancer video...unless you want to do a refresher for us ;-)
just wondering, how many grams out of balance is "acceptable" according to the spec sheets? especially if you stack them up 20 fold at the compressor side it would add up considerably to have a couple of grams on each rotor.
So now I find myself wondering how you get the first locking plate out when you are disassembling, particularly as you say they are rare and can't afford to destroy one.
+Tim Court It shall forever remain a mystery, although I answered this question less than 24 hours ago...
a question: do you mark this final pin for future reference? i suppose that since you bend it, it loses some of its strength, so i thought maybe you would not want to bend the exact same pin if you have to take this engine appart again
+dimos k The way it's installed leaves slight deformations that are easily noticed when compared to an unbent one. No need to mark it.
AgentJayZ ye that makes sense. Thanks for the response!
because of the wonderful things he does ?
Is better if you apply heat to the locking piece and then smash?
Could you move two of the blades into a "half in" position and sit the plate in at an angle and then use some aerospace percussive force to move them forwards and lock into place?
+mrmacomouto That would require the bowed plate to be installed inwards... right where the disc is.
... so no.
All fine and dandy but how did you get the first one out to begin the rebuild?
+TheRalliowiec Exactly like all the others, except the last one
Your video video is very good .......... make a video about Steam turbine that is real like you make videos before
hmm, it would be interesting to have a similar plate that lines up in both slots before the blade is driven all the way forward on the disc and seating the blade pushes the plate into final locked position. I'm guessing someone already has a patent for it if it's not on a turbine yet.
+Robert Szasz Wouldn't work. There's almost no wiggle room or pivot ability. The parts are steel, and have zero practical flexibility.
Well poot. And here I was thinking I had the next sliced bread. I guess Strength, Weight, and Cost were most important and so long as it can be installed all is good.
I was thinking why wouldn't they just have a small screw whose head would cover part of the fir tree, but Grahamj9101 answered it below. Great video, got me wondering what kind of a security clearance I would need...
Why does the wheel keep "falling" to another position on the balancing machine? If it's balanched, that shouldn't happen right?
+1metiz It is only when some of the locking plates are being installed. The turbine is falling to have the installed plates at the bottom. When they are all installed you will notice this is not happening.
+1metiz Listen to Adam; he knows his stuff.
+Adam Laycock AgentJayZ tells me you know your stuff, so, thanks :)
I wonder if a heavy duty C-Clamp could press those flat, with no hammering at all.
+Brenda Make As already explained... hammering on a soft metal drift is the approved and recommended technique specified by the manufacturer.
Do you have to balance the plates? Or are they all very close in weight that it wouldn't matter
+AJHedges 10:40
Yeah I should delete my comment, I realized what he said after I wrote it
well it can be the people who don't watch the whole thing
I got a question
... how you going to balance the HPT without balancing the HPC and it's parts since the moto sich overhaul manual calls out the rotation plan while the HPT is attached to the HPC drum...and also can you sell me some of those lock plates?
+Ryan Quack I can trade you some for the overhaul manual version you have. More info is better info...
So Jay, how long have you been working for S&S? Seems like forever!
awesome
Where place,when remove plate lock for the first time repair ..
AgentJayZ, how does a Zero Stage work ?
I did try to understand that it adds zero compression to the jet engine but how does it add overall pressure rise to a jet engine (thus boosting an older jet engine design) ?
+BillyNoMates1974 What is a zero stage? When an established design is updated and uprated, sometimes an additional stage is added to the front of the compressor to boost airflow.
Instead of renaming all of the other stages so that the new stage is called "stage 1", the new stage is called stage zero.
This avoids much confusion because all the parts that were already in the design keep the names they already have.
So a zero stage is just a naming convention.
ah ok. that clears that up. thanks
+BillyNoMates1974 Now you understand about a zero stage, I will tell you that the Avon RA29 aero engine and its derivative, the Industrial Avon 1533 had a double-zero stage added in front of the zero stage. Another bit of information which you might find interesting (or useless, depending on your point of view) is the fact that, when we deleted the fan and LP turbine from the 3-shaft RB211 aero engine, to produce the 2-shaft Industrial B211, we did not rename the IP compressor and turbine and their component parts, to avoid confusion.
Yes, when I occasionally worked with the RB211 team at TCT, I was interested to see that we worked on the HP and IP systems, and that there wasn't an LP system on the industrial version of that airliner powerhouse.
+AgentJayZ Yes, I was the young upstart who proposed that we continued with the nomenclature. It seemed obvious to me, as an LP compressor and turbine containing so-called common aero parts with 'IP compressor' labels on them could cause confusion.
Why is your hammer not made from aluminium? Since the forces on it are so low, you might as well reduce the potential risk of damage by having less steel around soft parts.
+janusroenlev This steel hammer is available everywhere for about 8 bucks. I've never sen an aluminum hammer, and I don't want to know the price.
+AgentJayZ They're called mallets, and they're everywhere. Available in brass and copper and even lead.
As stated above, I've never seen an aluminum hammer, mallet, whatever.
Brass, copper and lead do not apply to your first comment. Let's not become a moving target, Hmm?
If i make you one and send it from Denmark, will you use it instead of that harbour freight hammer?
+janusroenlev I've seen soft-headed (typically nylon) mallets used in certain applications, eg, tapping turbine blades with interlocking shrouds into place. Nevertheless, I think you are on the wrong track suggesting that AgentJayZ takes even a soft-headed mallet of any description to that locking plate. His Alum drift, being held in position before the blow, delivers the necessary force in just the right place.
So how do you take it a part without ruining the "stoppers"?
+Mads Kjerulff You sacrifice one.
The "secret" is pretty easy to imagine :) Bu what if you have to change 1 blade? How to bend a lock?
+virtualz oh, i've just read it in the earlier comments
Would you be able to use a vice with small pads to bend that last plate into place? That way you could avoid using any form of impact on the turbine. Also, how difficult would it be to fabricate new plates to secure the blades?
+eivilcow33 In a cartoon world, yes. In the real world, removing the turbine from the machine, and disassembling the arbour takes a half hour. Then how do you hold it in the vice while you tighten it. It's over 100lbs of awkwardness.
Then, first thing you need to do after locking the plate in... is final balancing.
See all the time we've wasted to do a lesser job of balancing?
+AgentJayZ whoops wrong tool, I meant C clamp, not vice. That way you can still do it on the balance machine. though you might need to use a wrench to crank it down to bend the plate.
+AgentJayZ wide mouth vice grips maybe
+eivilcow33 I would implicitly trust a skilled and experienced technician and craftsman, such as AgentJayZ, wielding a hammer and a soft Aluminium (sorry, Aluminum) drift to flatten a pre-bent locking plate. Why go to the complication and time-consuming use of a cramp or press device? And for the person who suggested using an Alumin(i)um hammer, the placing of a drift against the plate is far more precise and repeatable than hitting the plate with a hammer. PS It was a real pleasure to see you at work, AgentJayZ!
grahamj9101 GJ, you are just encouraging more of these comments. Armchair experts are always right, and very willing to make my job "better". Did you find that as an engineer?
A Hammer and drift/punch is OK, but I would think using a 'C' clamp as a press would be less prone to 'It slipped and I broke some else.'
+Robert Albert Thank you for your assessment of my technique, however, "slipped and broke something else" may apply more to your technique...
I’d take a weeks vacation and come work for free.
Hello Jay; I see your point about a lot of effort just to stop axial movement! Speaking of Rolls Royce, have you heard from grahamj9101 lately? His absence seems odd so hope he is OK. Thanks for showing this technique & no, I don't deserve these secret tidbits. I have some mechanical talent but I am a hack at gas turbine engines in comparison to you. A couple of friends & I have the J44's hot section off and that cooked turbine nozzle out. We all admired this 'different' engineering, even with this simple, 'disposable' design! Thanks for the education.
DD
+Darren Duncan grahamj9101 is out there. I've been trying to get him to start his own channel. If you think that's a good idea like his comments and let him know.
+Darren Duncan Hi Darren/everyone. Yes, I'm back in circulation, having been out to the Caribbean for a couple of weeks' sailing. However, I came back to commitments to support several STEM and Bloodhound Ambassador events, which meant that I had to get my PowerPoint presentations updated. I had fun on Wednesday, demonstrating my water-powered rockets, made from 2 litre (you'd say 'soda'?) bottles. With 4 atmos pressure, they will comfortably clear the length of a football (soccer to you) field. I'm off again to foreign parts (Wales) next week for another event. I also have other professional and domestic (like being a Grandpa) commitments, which keep me busy. I keep getting nudges to set up my own channel, but much of my time is already taken up. OK, I'll give it serious consideration, but first I need to get a camcorder and get in some practice.
+AgentJayZ 10-4, good buddy! His comment is 'liked'. It seems he has quite an interesting life, aside from G.T. engines so I will bet he can create some interesting videos!
I've been looking at camcorders - any advice? However, I must start counting the pennies, as I've got two trips to Singapore planned, another grandchild on the way, and thoughts of replacing my car next year.
+grahamj9101 Good to hear from you G. J.; I will encourage you to work-up a Y. T. channel, complete with Power Point, to share some of your knowledge. Heck, get a Go Pro with a waterproof case and show us some sailing! This would contrast nicely with Jay's river racing boats! Take care and to use some good ol' 'country' grammar, "Your comment has done been liked." ; )
come on where did you get those plates lol
Hi. Do you know why steam turbine blades is hard to replace?
I don't know anything about steam turbines.
@@AgentJayZ how difficult do you think is gas turbine blades?
Honestly sir, that is a completely meaningless question. I have no idea what you are asking.
Love the hat :-)
9:04 why brass why not any other material like iron
The punch is made of a material softer than the parts you are beating on, so any damage happens to the punch. Brass is one step harder than aluminum, but still softer than steel.
A steel punch is used only as a last resort, and with extreme care.
Only hacks and complete idiots hit engine parts directly with a steel hammer.
I would press it in with a modified c clamp
There is a procedure, written by the manufacturer. Failure to follow that procedure will result in you being reassigned. You only get a couple chances, and then you are out.
For that last plate, why not just use a large size C clamp 🗜️
That would probably work, but the hammer and punch technique is a standard procedure.
@@AgentJayZ oh gotcha
@@AgentJayZ you replied to a comment on a video from 5 years ago.... that's awesome
We are not worthy.
Lol wish I could
08:13 We don't deserve to see? Hope your just kidding. Thanks for reading.
Thanks for watching the whole video... if you did.