I'm a 66 yr old home builder been, in woodworking all my life, I too am an oil guy but I also have spray equipment and for a smooth finish, you will NEVER beat spray EVER by touch application methods. Lacquer has always been my go-to but water-based has come a long way. Most manufacturers don't recommend spraying but I thin with water 8 to 10%, depending on air humidity and temp at the time. The water makes the product totally sprayable and helps the coat flow out extremely smoothly. These water-based acrylics are hard as nails easily 3 times harder than lacquer and the proof is that floor finishers now use them exclusively due to durability. The only downside with them is that they don't bring out any depth or color in the wood so you have to get that before you apply the Acrylic, I use Danish oil to bring out the color of the wood but it has to be very dry before the water-base goes on.
Look at any high end classocal guitar. It will have hand rubbed shellac and be stunningly beautiful with a kind of natural gloss that you cannot match with a spray gun.
I gotta say the tru oil is a go to here, for consistency, but the Shellac holds some serious promise. The fact it natural and non toxic is a big deal. Especially when you have kids or four legged kids running around, I love the burl top tele! I would so build that if it was a kit!
Good comparisons. I have used all the products you tried, experienced the same results, and tru oil has always been a clear winner for me. Shellac is great, but using it in thick coats out of a can is missing an opportunity. I learnt to french polish, making the shellac mix from flakes and alcohol and applying it in the traditional way. It's not really correct to talk about coats of french polished shellac, as the applications burn in to each other and effectively form a single coat BUT, you can apply thin coats more or less continuously, as it is dry enough by the time you have finished (say) the top of a guitar to begin again, so there is effectively NO dry time. You found it getting stickier for two reasons: too much product and not varying the pressure - basically you rub harder and add more alcohol when it starts to stick. Even with Bulls eye applied as you did, you will find that it wears over time. However, because it burns in you can simply add to the worn areas and it will appear as a single application, not a patch. There are also 'hardened' shellac finishes (here in the UK Finpol is the best known, but there are several in the US) which are more hard wearing. the big drawback with French polishing is that there is a considerable learning curve invoved. That said, once you've got it, you've got it, and you can create a finish anywhere from satin to a gloss which is pretty much equal to sprayed nitro (but without the mess and danger).
Shellac has been used in both instrument and furniture building for centuries. It gives a beautiful hand rubbed finish from Satin to high gloss depending on the number of coats (gloss takes a lot of coats and elbow grease. On open grain woods it is best to use a pore filler and sand smooth before applying if you're going for a gloss finish, though purists will just take the time to fill in the pores with by using more coats of shellac). To cure the stickiness in doing later coats you can thin it a bit with a good grade shellac thinner. Pros mix up their own from shellac flakes (that I believe is harvested from a beetle). They then thin and add dye color if desired. The big problem with shellac is that it will react with water, (ever see those white cup rings on a piece of fine furniture? Likely a shellac based finish). Which means the finish will react with your sweat and moisture, but the other finishes you suggested shouldn't have this problem. Another positive is that a shellac finish is easily touched up or repaired.
Hey man, I’ve been watching your videos for a while and I wanted to thank you. I rebuilt a 70’s Fender Stratocaster that had a replacement neck on it. I’ve had the neck and body kicking around for 30 years. Everything on it when it was given to me was totally rusted out. I stripped the body and sanded the neck as well and refinished both with the Zinsser Bullseye Shellac and I absolutely loved it! I wish I could share a picture of the before and after. I’m so proud of it. Thank you again for your videos. I learned so much.
I've been using Zinzer shellac for baseboards on a home improvement project and the results were stellar. Made my cheap pine look great. Never thought of using it as a guitar finish. Thanks.
Shellac has some great advantages. One is you don't need to polish or rough between coats. The alcohol solvent will actually melt the previous layer as you add more. That makes it an easy to repair finish. Also, someone else alluded to this but most of those finishes are three ingredients, an oil (BLO, Tung, etc), a varnish, and mineral spirits. the different application properties come down to the proportions. I bet you could dilute that tung oil finish with mineral spirits and get what you got from Formby's. I'm starting to mix my own finishes from a can of plain varnish, BLO, and mineral spirits.
I do finish roughly all my guitars with shellac, and I love it! My next build will even be finished with a traditional French polish shellac. Definitely worth a try! Downside: very time intensive. Greetings from Germany!
I’m a firm believer in Tru oil. Done a lot of guitars and gunstocks with it over the years. It’s never let me down. Always get great results and no stickiness! Especially on necks. It also makes a great finishing coat over nitro finishes.
I'm in Southern California. No go on Tru Oil. Apparently, if I use a small 3oz. bottle of it, everyone in California will perish. Can someone mail it? I'll pay for the hassle.
@@garynjones6082does a great job. Never actually worn through it. But, yes, you can definitely reapply as needed if desired. Probably hit it with some 0000 steel wool for max adhesion
Hi Dan, First , thank you for this video. It is a good one that wrap up several types of best practice used by guitar builders with actual pros and cons and above all, well demonstrated on your guitars. Since I am kind of new in this area of guitar building I do not have the extant experience as most of your subscribers may have but over the last 2 years I have made my own reading and experiment and I have come out with a method that works (I believe) best for me. It is a 2 stage method: First stage - Pure Tung oil diluted with citrus spirt for deep penetrating (3-4 coats) then another 4-6 coats with just Tung oil, steel wool rub between each coat. Second stage - Tru-Oil , 16-20 very thin coats , wet send with 1200-1500grit after coats number 5, 10 and 15 . The results are almost mirror gloss and you can control it by reducing the amount of coats at second stage. Again, thank you for all your enlighten videos !
I really love working with Tru Oil. You can go from a satin sheen to a high gloss depending on how many coats are applied. I’ve finished many guitars with Tru Oil. That being said, I just refinished a Squier Classic Vibe Tele in which I gave an arm cut & a belly carve, along with a smugglers Rout - took 2lbs off a 9lb Tele. I then used Purple Leather Dye and Wipe-On High Gloss Poly - 11 coats. It came out beautiful.
Long term Tru-Oil user here, love the stuff. It does darken with age and some of us who use will keep an old jar of it to ripen to get a darker finish. I'm one of those guys who goes for a gloss with it. I keep the work piece near my bench while I work on other stuff. Every hour or so apply a layer using a coffee filter, cheap and lint free. When I come back the next morning I'll knock it down with 3M Scotchbrite (I hate steel wool) and apply for another day. Rinse and repeat until satisfied (I'll do this for a week) let it sit a week and then buff.
I refinished my strat a few years ago. Complete rebuild stripped down to the wood. Stained it with varathane cognac and finished with watco Danish oil. Wiped on 5 coats later and it's holding up really well with moderate play.
Excellent video, Dan. I love Tru Oil and use it quite often, but it can cause blotches or lift color on aniline dye. Applying Zinsner Bullseye wax-free shellac locks in the color and dries super fast. Plus shellac is universal, meaning any top coat is compatible, as long as the shellac is wax-free. 👍
“Cons of Shellac: Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces Weak resistance to wear Short shelf life Easily damaged by alcohol.”
@@brutalbasspro, Yes, it shouldn’t be used alone. On a side note, I made a Carvin guitar kit about 18 years ago and I just used Tung- oil which came out great but I’m wondering do you think I can use Tru-Oil over that?
DAN! You're doing good listening to your wife....after all her eyes found you too! Love the info here, this is the content we all wished the internet be full of. I've been acquiring some cheap guitars to implement my artistic skill apon. The more of your video's I watch, the more likely these projects are to get rolling... if only i had a coffee tumbler big enough to get me thru the job.... :)
Tru-Oil all the way. I use their gun-stock version. I couldn't believe how great it works. I turned a cheapo maple neck into something that looks like mahogany with some water dye applied before the oil. The oil fills in the gaps pretty easily, too, giving my neck a very smooth feel. It leaves a satin-like finish, not high gloss, and there's zero stickiness to it. I got it for my fretboards and decided to try it out on my neck. hot dog! BTW, although I did the neck in Tru Oil, I did the headstock with my usual technique for furniture: Orange Shellac. For furniture I do a coat of water dye (for color / tone), then a light coat of tung oil (for grain contrast / darkening), then coat with orange shellac, and often a final quick spray of laquer as a protective top coat (shellac is easily damaged). The multiple layers gives wood a 'depth'. But it's far too sticky and delicate to use on a neck, IMO. Don't forget, when you're doing a guitar you often have some wood at the neck joint you can use to experiment with your approach.
Don’t use hand sanitizer and then immediately touch the shellac finish. I love shellac but just gotta watch it with alcohol exposure I always assumed formbys was an oil varnish blend. Great info in this video!
I've always used Tru oil for my guitars. I put on about 15-20 coats, as the coats build up I buff before the next coat. After than I buff on about 10 coats of Birchwood gunstock wax. I tried Crimson Guitar finishing oil once but decided I prefer Birchwood.
Shellac is actually a quite common finish in the acoustic guitar world. More common with classical guitars perhaps, but over the years French polishing has had something of a resurgence. With electric guitars it’s mainly used in dewaxed form as a barrier coat for touch ups, or as a sealer coat underneath lacquer. I run a little luthier workshop business in NJ, and I often use dewaxed shellac to repair satin polyurethane finishes when the original poly finish contains a colorant. You used it right out of the can here, but that bullseye stuff is actually a ridiculously heavy cut (like 3 ounces of shellac per 8 ounces of solvent), so I usually thin it down to a 1 lb cut before spraying. You can add tints and stains to shellac to add a little depth of color or use to color match and create transition areas for repairs. And the biggest bonus is that if you spray shellac in whisper thin coats with a double action airbrush, you automatically get a beautiful satin sheen that matches that of most commercial satin polyurethane formulas very nicely.
Thank you. One MILLION times THANK YOU!! You are a PERFECT RUclips narrator... concise honest, fair, on point and humble. You saved me from using the Minwax Tung Oil, which was recommended by six local guitar shops. I immediately Amazoned the True Oil and the Utimate Urathane you write like because of my application. I will make a video in your honor once I'm finished. Final note, refinishing my guitar has been one of the MOST tedious, repetitious and TRYING endeavors of my life. Cheers, you were perfect... even an honest attempt at constructive criticism yielded a minor mispronounciation... not worth either of our time to mention. Bravo! Bravissiomo!!
I've never tackled a guitar build, let alone finishing one. The reviews of these product was exactly what I needed to move from finsihing to assembly. For a novice like myself ( even though I qualify for the silver discounts..LOL) this video was gold. Thank you. FWIW, I went with the Zinsser...
I ended up settling down with the Minwax wipe on. (Both gloss & satin) It’s so easy to work with, and forgiving, and you can build it up as much or little as you want, and great for guitar finishing . I even use it on pistol grips. 👍🏻
I’ve been using oil-based poly and mixing it with mineral spirits & Japan dryer to get a brush/wipe-on poly to coat my guitar projects. I’ve got pretty good results with it as you can sand after every coat and keep adding coats to get a commercial-grade hard gloss finish. I’ve also used varathane water-based poly spray to coat a bass body and got decent results, although it feels a little soft compared to the oil-based version. I love polyurethane but after seeing this video I’m going to try the brush-on version of the water-based as well as the shellac. Thanks for the video!
The other great benefit of shellac is it's compatible with about everything. You can use it as a sealer under other finishes, etc. Great stuff. Check out a french polish if you're not familiar with them, beautiful finish but a lot of work. And by the way, I also love the Ricky jazz bass, it's sweet looking.
@@noahpowell7984 most violin makers traditionally use spirit varnish (which involves lots of other stuff as well as shellac - often secret!), but you are absolutely right about shellac - lots of ultra thin applications, which burn in to a single coat.
@Baldspot Absolutely - Always dewaxed! Also don't be tempted to put paste wax over the finished article. Then you can't easily refresh worn areas - you would need to get all the wax off,
I now only ever use French polish prepared and applied in the traditional way.There are 'hardened' French polish mixes which are more hardwearing, but are applied in exactly the same manner as traditional French polish. Incidentally, there's not that much work in the actual application BUT a lot of time needed to learn to do it right. I also found I couldn't learn it from videos or by trial and error. I really only got the hangof it after I went to someone who knew how to do it and had them guide me through the learning process.
“Cons of Shellac: Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces Weak resistance to wear Short shelf life Easily damaged by alcohol.”
Great comparison Dan, thanks! One small thing about shellac you want to look out for, it is easily damaged by both alcohol AND WATER. That’s one thing I always tell my customers when they request it. That being said, since it literally melts into itself when applied, it is also easily repaired.
I make my own finishes and I believe I sent a recipe for an oil finish which uses Linseed , Vegetable base oil like rapeseed with silicon anti foam and lighter fuel in 10 linseed oil /30 rapeoil silicone/60 lighter fluid . Use art linseed as its clear or plain for yellow . Apply like Tru oil . 3 coats is enough but the more the merrier . I use it on gun stocks. I also make shellac . I use old 78s bust them up and dissolve the pieces in alcohol . Old 78s are cast natural shellac from the beetle before the recording groove is cut . Filter off the label and chunks and you have shellac which you can thin with alcohol . Shellac tones can vary from purple brown to black or thin it to tone . Lemon shellac flakes produces close to clear finishes which you can't buy from a charity shop . The finish for the WW2 Browning hi power pistol was P41 I.e. Parkerise with shellac finish . This is Guns and Guitars after all . Another recipe for grain filler any poly acrylate modified resin glue Titebond, Gorilla even Elmers over there . KONASIL or similar foamed silica microspheres ( ask your importer they will send a sample tub for free ) and sanding dust that matches your body colour and you have just sanded off . The silica microspheres reduce shrinkage but are lighter than air so masks and care when mixing a mask is absolutely essential . Thin with water to a runny paste . Fumed silica is also used ti increase brilliance in centreline cartridge primers .
What seems to be consistent information on the web is that TruOil is 56% mineral spirits, 33% oil varnish (probably oil poly) and 11% linseed or tung oil. There are abundant DIY mixers with variations on that blend that are very satisfied with the finish produced by that recipe or slight modification therof.
This was one of your best videos I've watched. And I watch all of them. I learned a lot, and like that you showed the application process and final results of each one. Good job Dan.
Both of the thumbnail guitars are awsome. You do good work and I love guns and guitars with you passion.i jst live in a area where if u dnt buy online you dnt have good gear
I know everyone has already said shellac=french polish. But you should look into the hard wax oil finishes. It's a nice alternative to the tung oil finishes. Ollie's oil gets a lot of buzz, but there's a bunch of others. Oil based finishes will always have a yellow cast to them. Water based, which can be thinned some with more water, is the clearest. The book on this is Flexner's book on wood finishes.
Good video, Dan. I was notably impressed with the shellac info. I might recommend Min Wax brush on lacquer. I thin it down with lacquer thinner, use a foam brush, and it goes on well, dries to touch in 30 min., and can add another coat in 30 - 45 minutes. Any drips or other mistakes can be sanded or thinnered out after 24 hrs when it is fully dry.
I personally really like Minwax's wipe on poly, and watco danish oil. The watco was able to accept wipe on poly over it so hopefully it'll last forever. If you do light coats with the wipe on poly then it will get rid of the plasticy feel.
This is a good review of the products. I will say that the issues you had with the water based varnish was likely due to different absorbtion. If you seal everything with a sanding sealer and flat it back a few times before finishing, it will make a big difference.
@Guns and Guitars I have a challenge/idea for you. Build a flying-V style heavy metal themed guitar with YOUR own body shape and incorporate things that generally put on guitars made for metal.. Maybe with an inverted/flipped headstock, dark colors, matte or gloss finish, gothic style designing & inlay work... which you could do by carving/routing your design, put paint, metal flakes etc in the routed design and fill with epoxy and then sand it flat. I'd be interested to see what you come up with because you seem to think outside the box and have a good level of creativity. And great videos by the way. Excellent content!
Dan, I'm so glad I happened on your site. I have been "theming" my basses for the past couple of years and getting ooohs and ahhhhs from people in the audience (especially musicians), and finally decided to buy a kit and go from scratch. Every tutorial you give is like a life lesson. I'm currently working on my 1st ric kit and bought TruOil to get it done. Thank you for being there. One day I plan on buying one of your prototypes, they look like they'd be awesome on stage.
I think Odie's oil and Velvit oil will be awesome for your finishing wishes. Derek of the BigD guitars channel has videos of both products. Tested them myself, highly recommended.
I've used shellac for a couple guitars and the reason I picked it is because my Woodshop teacher said it blocked uv rays and I was using some Purple Heart which turns grey with uv exposure. I haven't had any issues with mines and it turned out great
@@kerekes1952 i assume so My Woodshop teacher just knew about Purple Heart but I assume the same principles apply. I know Purple Heart fades from uv so if other woods fade from uv it would assume that shellac would also block that
Good video! I use a home-brewed wipe-on varnish that can best be described as an oil-based alkyd. I go with a satin finish as I try to preserve the natural beauty of the wood, whether it be swamp ash, alder, mahogany, or even pine. I also try to accent the grain (conservatively). But hey, different strokes for the different folks...it's all good! Thanks for the video!
Just finished by Guitar's neck with Water based Polyurethane. The dry time for me was way way faster. Took just 20 minutes for 2 coats. Just an amazing results. NO COLOR CHANGE IN MAPLE AND FULLY SEALED THE WOOD WITH VERY THIN COATS
I build rustic guitars, and in my opinion, nothing brings out "the look" better than boiled linseed oil. Sand guitar to 320 and 4 to 5 coats of hand rubbed boiled linseed oil does wonders. Nice protective coat, and it keeps the rustic look of the wood.
So far, I've used Minwax on one, and it was OK, but nothing special. I did spray lacquor on my first strat kit from China and my octave mando (that you've seen). It's certainly nice, but it takes lots of coats. I did Tru-Oil on the Rockabilly and my younger daughter's Ukulele. I do like it's finish, but you're right it definitely has a yellowing. I may do a poly on my next one, in part because it's softer wood (my leftover staircase tread wood), and I want a strong finish that's strong. Never tried a shellac, might be worth trying. But nice overview, and I'm definitely interested in trying some of the poly finishes, as that's the one I haven't done.
great video. ive been using minwax wipe on poly for 15 years.. I use a latex glove and wipe on a thin layer every 30 min 3 or 4 layers. then sand with 3m pad… I use about 15 layers , that makes a almost laquer looking finish .. ultra smooth and poly needs no reapplication over time… it does have a ambering effect on maple.. my last build I used water based .. and same results , less coats.. but. that stuff is dry before you can wipe it on! my 2 cents
This is EXACTLY the video I was looking for this week, Dan! I have a project I want to finish as soon as possible and I’ve been trying to decide which finish to go with to get this baby in action. I think I’m going to dye it blue, coat with some blue tinted shellac and then maybe some tru oil over the top. I used tru oil on a neck for a guitar last year and it’s help up great so far! Thanks for the video!
I know this video is old but I use the Varathane stain and poly on all my woodworking projects if I’m not using oil. The satin in 4-6 decently thin coats is perfect for a guitar neck and 8-10 on the headstock and body and any other part of the guitar that may get more use. You’ll get a shine without the gloss and without the gloss feeling if that makes sense. An untinted satin poly over any flat color will give you a good matte finish.
I like Minwax water-based polyurethane in satin, then rubbed with 00 steel wool. I also like to thin with pure water to allow a thinner coat. It is easy to apply multiple coats, and also it dries in less than an hour. This is best for guitar bodies. I prefer boiled linseed oil on necks and fingerboards. You can add a small amount of Japan drier to allow the oil to dry faster.
I've always used tru oil with great results. I recently built a live edge table and finished it with a product called Rubio Monocoat. Very easy to apply, rub it on wipe it off, one or two coats and it's a hardwood floor finish so should be durable. I have some left I think I'll try on my next guitar project.
I greatly lament that Formbys is gone. It was beautiful on a Richard's stock I bought in around '87. Used Truoil on a Rem 700 ADL lately. MULtiple coats. I like your video.
I recently purchased a Ric-like bass kit you had recently shown. Being pretty good with wood but terrible with finishes I thought I would try one of these. I used the True Oil and I am quite impressed with myself. Lol. This build isn’t finished yet but the body and neck look fantastic. Like a $1000 custom build. Well why not. I put $400 into a $200 kit with a new bridge, custom wiring harness And Ric-like pick-ups. I had to do a lot of routing and sanding but the results are well worth it. Thanks for all of your advice and how to’s!!
There was a premier guitar article a few years back about refinishing a sticky guitar neck with shellac and mineral spirits. It brought my partscaster strat back to life. Excited to try some of these on my next build!
I used the Verithane shown here on some cabinets that I painted with flat paint. It worked great, but the way I applied it was with a small fine-fabric roller so I could roll it on smooth and even. They have a nice protective sheen to them and it looks good. You do have to be careful with the application cause it will splotch and such. Looks like the Tru Oil was the winner as far as guitars go.
Hit the nail on the head for me on this one Dan. Needing a new Finishing product With Formby's priced the same as 2 Teslas per pint Prefect timing, As I'm about to finish 2 guitars that are precious to me. One belonged to my dad. long since passed away. The other an early 60's Harmony H45. one of my first guitars. Thanks again.
Its definitely good to see a few options. I've mostly built partscasters and don't have a lot of experience doing my own finishing, but my dad got me a piece of black walnut for Christmas, so I guess I'm going to have to learn lol.
I've spotted that Shellac can at the beggining of the video and just remember a small documentary I saw on shellac and how it's made and I was definitely intrigued as to how it would fair and honestly, I might try it out for my first build as it does seem to be the most forgiving of them all.
Absolutelly great and instructive video. I will try Shellac next time !! I know that Shellac was used in classical guitar and violins for a few centuries.. So no surprize that it works. Modern shellac is just much more practical to apply.
“Cons of Shellac: Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces Weak resistance to wear Short shelf life Easily damaged by alcohol.”
Shellac is the traditional finish for fine classical and flamenco guitars. A downside to the finish is that it can be dissolved by alcohol. Exercise excellent booze control! An upside is that imperfections can be repaired with more coats instead of stripping the whole instrument.
I’ve used several of those also. I like the shellac. I prefer to buy flakes and Mix them myself. The upside of mixing yourself is you can use it as a filler (basically make it thick)or you can make it really thin. The reason it gets sticky is that each layer dissolves the previous. To make your mix really non-toxic you can go buy everclear (or similar) from the liquor store. Can’t imagine drinking it, but you could.
Great video. I used Formby's on my first couple builds in the late 80s. He had a TV show called Formby's Antique Workshop when i was growing up. I learned a lot from that show. I switched to wipeon poly a few years back with good results. I've tried several water based finishes but never was thrilled with any water based finish I've tried. Some raise grain and thats a pain.
They’ve been using shellac on Classical guitars since the beginning. And Yamaha still makes their classical guitars with shellac using 200 coats, yes you heard that right 200 coats. It takes three months to finish because you shellac then sand it back, add another thin coat then sand it back, and so on and so forth. Thin coats is the key.
I finished my mahogany strat with wipe on tinted shellac more than ten years ago. I put on a lot of coats and it took almost a month to cure but in the end it polished up nicely and still looks great. Shellac is also good as a base coat for glossy finishes as almost everything sticks to it. I have always used spray on shellac for necks both the backs and the fingerboards of maple necks.
I used the gun stock oil on a Firebird build and it came out good. It's a great option for those that don't have the ability or don't want to spray Lacquer.
If I understand correctly Shellac is the medium used in what if know as a French Polish. I have seen a few guitar builders on RUclips that build classical acoustic guitars use it. Of course they may apply 15 to 20 or more coats and buff it to a high gloss.
Good video, but a few points about shellac. It's one of the oldest and most commonly used finishes out there, but mostly used on classical instruments like violins and acoustic guitars. It can produce a great finish, but the downsides are it gets dull fairly fast and like you said, takes a fair bit of work to get a good result. The main downside is, it doesn't really deal that well with moisture, so if you have sweaty hands or play outside a lot, it can be a bit of a problem.
I know some high-end classical guitar makers use a fresh homemade shellac finish as it is very open and resonant and does not hinder the resonance of a high-quality classical instrument.
I'm refurbishing my fist guitar I made, in 1982. I used Standard Brands lacquer back then. I want to try brush on Fast dry Minwax poly which I used on a kitchen table that came out great. Going to plug the controls cavity, rebind both sides and finish clear after a light red stain on the birdeys eye neck-through and mahogany sides.
Maybe someone else has mentioned but rather than shellac being uncommon as a guitar finish it was used in the French polish process in the majority of vintage Spanish classical guitars. It is durable, beautiful, and the finish can be replenished pretty easily.
Unless that Varathane product says its ok to use steel wool to sand back with, I'd recommend using 400 grit paper between coats. On occasion I'll use an oil based product, but I heavily use waterbased finishing systems. Everyone I've ever used says do not use steel wool, because of potential rust spots if it does not get cleaned out of grain thoroughly. The variation in sheen on spots of the guitar usually means it needs to be sanded more uniformally to build the coats evenly. The finish soaks into the more porous grain leaving it look flat. Therefore you need to effectively level sand the "high" spots back to the more dull spots. Then repeat the process until the flat areas have that uniform look.
I have recently discovered in my research that shellac has been used for hundreds of years on acoustics violins etc. So after hearing your review and now that my Formby‘s supply is almost out it is time to try something new. I hear the really good stuff is dewaxed shellac which you add alcohol to it and comes in a plastic bag. I believe places like wood craft or other woodworking Stores carry this. Not to mention Stew Mac has it
Water-based poly makes a very durable finish. It's basically plastic polymer bead suspension in water. When the water dries, the polymer coalesces into hard coating. The finished product is hard and quite resistant to everyday chemicals and body oils. It's definitely plastic-y.
The Varathane water based, in using this I have found it to look and feel plasticity, and on water based finishes you need an extra coat. Shellac is interesting because it is used in a French Polish, use don high end instruments. One big advantage to shellac is it actually “melts” and bonds tot he previous coats. So you end up with one total coat, when you have applied multiple times.
Put on three or four heavy coats of shellac. Then use a buffing wheel or even a car buffer with a wood shine restoring compound. Beautiful. If you want it to look deep without so much shine put another thin coat on.
Shellac should be applied with a fine natural hair brush in medium wet coats, and allowed to dry over night, then wet sanded with 600 grit paper. The final finish will still be thin after 4 coats, because shellac is alcohol based... 80% of the liquid vapes off. The only problem with shellac is it has low durability. I usually top it off with a coat of poly.
The water-based Varithane on the neck and the Shelack on the body. I’d try that. Sorry ‘bout my spelling. Another great video. Thanks! Your videos do help tremendously!
I’ve only ever used wipe on poly for my projects, so I don’t worry about yellowing. But I’ve used Tru-oil specifically on necks. Just to keep a natural feel, something that isint sticky. But especially with wipe on poly, if the colour isint sealed. It’s going to bleed through, learned that on my first Kit.
I'm a 66 yr old home builder been, in woodworking all my life, I too am an oil guy but
I also have spray equipment and for a smooth finish, you will NEVER beat spray EVER by
touch application methods. Lacquer has always been my go-to but water-based has come a long way.
Most manufacturers don't recommend spraying but I thin with water 8 to 10%, depending on air humidity and temp at the time. The water makes the product totally sprayable and helps the coat
flow out extremely smoothly. These water-based acrylics are hard as nails easily 3 times harder than
lacquer and the proof is that floor finishers now use them exclusively due to durability. The only
downside with them is that they don't bring out any depth or color in the wood so you have to get that
before you apply the Acrylic, I use Danish oil to bring out the color of the wood but it has to be very
dry before the water-base goes on.
Look at any high end classocal guitar. It will have hand rubbed shellac and be stunningly beautiful with a kind of natural gloss that you cannot match with a spray gun.
I gotta say the tru oil is a go to here, for consistency, but the Shellac holds some serious promise. The fact it natural and non toxic is a big deal. Especially when you have kids or four legged kids running around,
I love the burl top tele! I would so build that if it was a kit!
It is a kit! Watch my tele shoutout video!
@@GunsandGuitars look up Velvet oil.
Precision Guitars can build it For you to your choice of wood.
Good comparisons. I have used all the products you tried, experienced the same results, and tru oil has always been a clear winner for me. Shellac is great, but using it in thick coats out of a can is missing an opportunity. I learnt to french polish, making the shellac mix from flakes and alcohol and applying it in the traditional way. It's not really correct to talk about coats of french polished shellac, as the applications burn in to each other and effectively form a single coat BUT, you can apply thin coats more or less continuously, as it is dry enough by the time you have finished (say) the top of a guitar to begin again, so there is effectively NO dry time. You found it getting stickier for two reasons: too much product and not varying the pressure - basically you rub harder and add more alcohol when it starts to stick. Even with Bulls eye applied as you did, you will find that it wears over time. However, because it burns in you can simply add to the worn areas and it will appear as a single application, not a patch. There are also 'hardened' shellac finishes (here in the UK Finpol is the best known, but there are several in the US) which are more hard wearing. the big drawback with French polishing is that there is a considerable learning curve invoved. That said, once you've got it, you've got it, and you can create a finish anywhere from satin to a gloss which is pretty much equal to sprayed nitro (but without the mess and danger).
As both a Guitarist and a Gunner, I Really Enjoy watching your videos. THX.
pew-pew.pew
YOU*RE DEAD
Shellac has been used in both instrument and furniture building for centuries. It gives a beautiful hand rubbed finish from Satin to high gloss depending on the number of coats (gloss takes a lot of coats and elbow grease. On open grain woods it is best to use a pore filler and sand smooth before applying if you're going for a gloss finish, though purists will just take the time to fill in the pores with by using more coats of shellac). To cure the stickiness in doing later coats you can thin it a bit with a good grade shellac thinner. Pros mix up their own from shellac flakes (that I believe is harvested from a beetle). They then thin and add dye color if desired. The big problem with shellac is that it will react with water, (ever see those white cup rings on a piece of fine furniture? Likely a shellac based finish). Which means the finish will react with your sweat and moisture, but the other finishes you suggested shouldn't have this problem. Another positive is that a shellac finish is easily touched up or repaired.
Hey man,
I’ve been watching your videos for a while and I wanted to thank you. I rebuilt a 70’s Fender Stratocaster that had a replacement neck on it. I’ve had the neck and body kicking around for 30 years. Everything on it when it was given to me was totally rusted out. I stripped the body and sanded the neck as well and refinished both with the Zinsser Bullseye Shellac and I absolutely loved it! I wish I could share a picture of the before and after. I’m so proud of it. Thank you again for your videos. I learned so much.
I've been using Zinzer shellac for baseboards on a home improvement project and the results were stellar. Made my cheap pine look great. Never thought of using it as a guitar finish.
Thanks.
Shellac has some great advantages. One is you don't need to polish or rough between coats. The alcohol solvent will actually melt the previous layer as you add more. That makes it an easy to repair finish.
Also, someone else alluded to this but most of those finishes are three ingredients, an oil (BLO, Tung, etc), a varnish, and mineral spirits. the different application properties come down to the proportions. I bet you could dilute that tung oil finish with mineral spirits and get what you got from Formby's. I'm starting to mix my own finishes from a can of plain varnish, BLO, and mineral spirits.
Yes you have to sand back between each coat of shellac.
And you can EAT the guitar, too, don't forget...
I do finish roughly all my guitars with shellac, and I love it! My next build will even be finished with a traditional French polish shellac. Definitely worth a try! Downside: very time intensive. Greetings from Germany!
I’m a firm believer in Tru oil. Done a lot of guitars and gunstocks with it over the years. It’s never let me down. Always get great results and no stickiness! Especially on necks. It also makes a great finishing coat over nitro finishes.
I'm in Southern California. No go on Tru Oil. Apparently, if I use a small 3oz. bottle of it, everyone in California will perish. Can someone mail it? I'll pay for the hassle.
How does it hold up overtime? Will you have to apply more every year or two?
@@garynjones6082does a great job. Never actually worn through it. But, yes, you can definitely reapply as needed if desired. Probably hit it with some 0000 steel wool for max adhesion
@@marshallmason1621 Great, thanks! I appreciate the reply.
Hi Dan,
First , thank you for this video. It is a good one that wrap up several types of best practice used by guitar builders with actual pros and cons and above all, well demonstrated on your guitars.
Since I am kind of new in this area of guitar building I do not have the extant experience as most of your subscribers may have but over the last 2 years I have made my own reading and experiment and I have come out with a method that works (I believe) best for me.
It is a 2 stage method:
First stage - Pure Tung oil diluted with citrus spirt for deep penetrating (3-4 coats) then another 4-6 coats with just Tung oil, steel wool rub between each coat.
Second stage - Tru-Oil , 16-20 very thin coats , wet send with 1200-1500grit after coats number 5, 10 and 15 .
The results are almost mirror gloss and you can control it by reducing the amount of coats at second stage.
Again, thank you for all your enlighten videos !
On everything I've tried building, the finish is the most difficult thing to get right.
Thanks for this 👍
I really love working with Tru Oil. You can go from a satin sheen to a high gloss depending on how many coats are applied. I’ve finished many guitars with Tru Oil. That being said, I just refinished a Squier Classic Vibe Tele in which I gave an arm cut & a belly carve, along with a smugglers Rout - took 2lbs off a 9lb Tele. I then used Purple Leather Dye and Wipe-On High Gloss Poly - 11 coats. It came out beautiful.
I need to see this purple and how it turned out; purple instruments are underrated!
Long term Tru-Oil user here, love the stuff. It does darken with age and some of us who use will keep an old jar of it to ripen to get a darker finish. I'm one of those guys who goes for a gloss with it. I keep the work piece near my bench while I work on other stuff. Every hour or so apply a layer using a coffee filter, cheap and lint free. When I come back the next morning I'll knock it down with 3M Scotchbrite (I hate steel wool) and apply for another day. Rinse and repeat until satisfied (I'll do this for a week) let it sit a week and then buff.
I refinished my strat a few years ago. Complete rebuild stripped down to the wood. Stained it with varathane cognac and finished with watco Danish oil. Wiped on 5 coats later and it's holding up really well with moderate play.
Excellent video, Dan. I love Tru Oil and use it quite often, but it can cause blotches or lift color on aniline dye. Applying Zinsner Bullseye wax-free shellac locks in the color and dries super fast. Plus shellac is universal, meaning any top coat is compatible, as long as the shellac is wax-free. 👍
“Cons of Shellac:
Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces
Weak resistance to wear
Short shelf life
Easily damaged by alcohol.”
@@TheIkaika777 it is a great sealer coat before you paint it finish bare wood also wax free will take any finish over the top.
@@brutalbasspro, Yes, it shouldn’t be used alone. On a side note, I made a Carvin guitar kit about 18 years ago and I just used Tung- oil which came out great but I’m wondering do you think I can use Tru-Oil over that?
@@TheIkaika777 I did too, about 23 years ago, and I think I used Formby's at the time, which is very similar to Tur-oil, as he says in the video.
DAN! You're doing good listening to your wife....after all her eyes found you too! Love the info here, this is the content we all wished the internet be full of. I've been acquiring some cheap guitars to implement my artistic skill apon. The more of your video's I watch, the more likely these projects are to get rolling... if only i had a coffee tumbler big enough to get me thru the job.... :)
Tru-Oil all the way. I use their gun-stock version. I couldn't believe how great it works. I turned a cheapo maple neck into something that looks like mahogany with some water dye applied before the oil.
The oil fills in the gaps pretty easily, too, giving my neck a very smooth feel. It leaves a satin-like finish, not high gloss, and there's zero stickiness to it.
I got it for my fretboards and decided to try it out on my neck. hot dog!
BTW, although I did the neck in Tru Oil, I did the headstock with my usual technique for furniture: Orange Shellac. For furniture I do a coat of water dye (for color / tone), then a light coat of tung oil (for grain contrast / darkening), then coat with orange shellac, and often a final quick spray of laquer as a protective top coat (shellac is easily damaged). The multiple layers gives wood a 'depth'. But it's far too sticky and delicate to use on a neck, IMO.
Don't forget, when you're doing a guitar you often have some wood at the neck joint you can use to experiment with your approach.
Don’t use hand sanitizer and then immediately touch the shellac finish. I love shellac but just gotta watch it with alcohol exposure
I always assumed formbys was an oil varnish blend. Great info in this video!
I've always used Tru oil for my guitars. I put on about 15-20 coats, as the coats build up I buff before the next coat. After than I buff on about 10 coats of Birchwood gunstock wax. I tried Crimson Guitar finishing oil once but decided I prefer Birchwood.
Shellac is actually a quite common finish in the acoustic guitar world. More common with classical guitars perhaps, but over the years French polishing has had something of a resurgence. With electric guitars it’s mainly used in dewaxed form as a barrier coat for touch ups, or as a sealer coat underneath lacquer.
I run a little luthier workshop business in NJ, and I often use dewaxed shellac to repair satin polyurethane finishes when the original poly finish contains a colorant. You used it right out of the can here, but that bullseye stuff is actually a ridiculously heavy cut (like 3 ounces of shellac per 8 ounces of solvent), so I usually thin it down to a 1 lb cut before spraying. You can add tints and stains to shellac to add a little depth of color or use to color match and create transition areas for repairs. And the biggest bonus is that if you spray shellac in whisper thin coats with a double action airbrush, you automatically get a beautiful satin sheen that matches that of most commercial satin polyurethane formulas very nicely.
Thank you. One MILLION times THANK YOU!! You are a PERFECT RUclips narrator... concise honest, fair, on point and humble. You saved me from using the Minwax Tung Oil, which was recommended by six local guitar shops. I immediately Amazoned the True Oil and the Utimate Urathane you write like because of my application. I will make a video in your honor once I'm finished. Final note, refinishing my guitar has been one of the MOST tedious, repetitious and TRYING endeavors of my life. Cheers, you were perfect... even an honest attempt at constructive criticism yielded a minor mispronounciation... not worth either of our time to mention. Bravo! Bravissiomo!!
I've never tackled a guitar build, let alone finishing one. The reviews of these product was exactly what I needed to move from finsihing to assembly. For a novice like myself ( even though I qualify for the silver discounts..LOL) this video was gold. Thank you.
FWIW, I went with the Zinsser...
I French polished with shellac, my first two kit builds. Beautiful finish. Just beware alcohol will strip it.
I ended up settling down with the Minwax wipe on. (Both gloss & satin)
It’s so easy to work with, and forgiving, and you can build it up as much or little as you want, and great for guitar finishing . I even use it on pistol grips. 👍🏻
I’ve been using oil-based poly and mixing it with mineral spirits & Japan dryer to get a brush/wipe-on poly to coat my guitar projects. I’ve got pretty good results with it as you can sand after every coat and keep adding coats to get a commercial-grade hard gloss finish. I’ve also used varathane water-based poly spray to coat a bass body and got decent results, although it feels a little soft compared to the oil-based version. I love polyurethane but after seeing this video I’m going to try the brush-on version of the water-based as well as the shellac. Thanks for the video!
The other great benefit of shellac is it's compatible with about everything. You can use it as a sealer under other finishes, etc. Great stuff. Check out a french polish if you're not familiar with them, beautiful finish but a lot of work. And by the way, I also love the Ricky jazz bass, it's sweet looking.
With the shellac it's best to add hundreds of thin cotes to get a high gloss finish that traditional guitar and violin builders make.
@@noahpowell7984 most violin makers traditionally use spirit varnish (which involves lots of other stuff as well as shellac - often secret!), but you are absolutely right about shellac - lots of ultra thin applications, which burn in to a single coat.
@Baldspot Absolutely - Always dewaxed! Also don't be tempted to put paste wax over the finished article. Then you can't easily refresh worn areas - you would need to get all the wax off,
I now only ever use French polish prepared and applied in the traditional way.There are 'hardened' French polish mixes which are more hardwearing, but are applied in exactly the same manner as traditional French polish. Incidentally, there's not that much work in the actual application BUT a lot of time needed to learn to do it right. I also found I couldn't learn it from videos or by trial and error. I really only got the hangof it after I went to someone who knew how to do it and had them guide me through the learning process.
“Cons of Shellac:
Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces
Weak resistance to wear
Short shelf life
Easily damaged by alcohol.”
Great comparison Dan, thanks! One small thing about shellac you want to look out for, it is easily damaged by both alcohol AND WATER. That’s one thing I always tell my customers when they request it. That being said, since it literally melts into itself when applied, it is also easily repaired.
I make my own finishes and I believe I sent a recipe for an oil finish which uses Linseed , Vegetable base oil like rapeseed with silicon anti foam and lighter fuel in 10 linseed oil /30 rapeoil silicone/60 lighter fluid . Use art linseed as its clear or plain for yellow . Apply like Tru oil . 3 coats is enough but the more the merrier . I use it on gun stocks.
I also make shellac . I use old 78s bust them up and dissolve the pieces in alcohol . Old 78s are cast natural shellac from the beetle before the recording groove is cut .
Filter off the label and chunks and you have shellac which you can thin with alcohol . Shellac tones can vary from purple brown to black or thin it to tone . Lemon shellac flakes produces close to clear finishes which you can't buy from a charity shop . The finish for the WW2 Browning hi power pistol was P41 I.e. Parkerise with shellac finish .
This is Guns and Guitars after all .
Another recipe for grain filler any poly acrylate modified resin glue Titebond, Gorilla even Elmers over there . KONASIL or similar foamed silica microspheres ( ask your importer they will send a sample tub for free ) and sanding dust that matches your body colour and you have just sanded off . The silica microspheres reduce shrinkage but are lighter than air so masks and care when mixing a mask is absolutely essential . Thin with water to a runny paste . Fumed silica is also used ti increase brilliance in centreline cartridge primers .
What seems to be consistent information on the web is that TruOil is 56% mineral spirits, 33% oil varnish (probably oil poly) and 11% linseed or tung oil. There are abundant DIY mixers with variations on that blend that are very satisfied with the finish produced by that recipe or slight modification therof.
I wish Dan to build an epiphone crestwood
This was one of your best videos I've watched. And I watch all of them. I learned a lot, and like that you showed the application process and final results of each one. Good job Dan.
Both of the thumbnail guitars are awsome. You do good work and I love guns and guitars with you passion.i jst live in a area where if u dnt buy online you dnt have good gear
I know everyone has already said shellac=french polish. But you should look into the hard wax oil finishes. It's a nice alternative to the tung oil finishes. Ollie's oil gets a lot of buzz, but there's a bunch of others. Oil based finishes will always have a yellow cast to them. Water based, which can be thinned some with more water, is the clearest. The book on this is Flexner's book on wood finishes.
Good video, Dan. I was notably impressed with the shellac info. I might recommend Min Wax brush on lacquer. I thin it down with lacquer thinner, use a foam brush, and it goes on well, dries to touch in 30 min., and can add another coat in 30 - 45 minutes. Any drips or other mistakes can be sanded or thinnered out after 24 hrs when it is fully dry.
I personally really like Minwax's wipe on poly, and watco danish oil. The watco was able to accept wipe on poly over it so hopefully it'll last forever. If you do light coats with the wipe on poly then it will get rid of the plasticy feel.
This is a good review of the products. I will say that the issues you had with the water based varnish was likely due to different absorbtion. If you seal everything with a sanding sealer and flat it back a few times before finishing, it will make a big difference.
@Guns and Guitars I have a challenge/idea for you. Build a flying-V style heavy metal themed guitar with YOUR own body shape and incorporate things that generally put on guitars made for metal.. Maybe with an inverted/flipped headstock, dark colors, matte or gloss finish, gothic style designing & inlay work... which you could do by carving/routing your design, put paint, metal flakes etc in the routed design and fill with epoxy and then sand it flat. I'd be interested to see what you come up with because you seem to think outside the box and have a good level of creativity. And great videos by the way. Excellent content!
Dan, I'm so glad I happened on your site. I have been "theming" my basses for the past couple of years and getting ooohs and ahhhhs from people in the audience (especially musicians), and finally decided to buy a kit and go from scratch. Every tutorial you give is like a life lesson. I'm currently working on my 1st ric kit and bought TruOil to get it done. Thank you for being there. One day I plan on buying one of your prototypes, they look like they'd be awesome on stage.
Love that gray and orange guitar.
I think Odie's oil and Velvit oil will be awesome for your finishing wishes. Derek of the BigD guitars channel has videos of both products. Tested them myself, highly recommended.
This is definitely a video i was hoping you would do. For this info, you sir, are a legend.
I've used shellac for a couple guitars and the reason I picked it is because my Woodshop teacher said it blocked uv rays and I was using some Purple Heart which turns grey with uv exposure. I haven't had any issues with mines and it turned out great
Would shellac keep Padouk from losing its bright red color, as well?
@@kerekes1952 i assume so
My Woodshop teacher just knew about Purple Heart but I assume the same principles apply. I know Purple Heart fades from uv so if other woods fade from uv it would assume that shellac would also block that
Good video! I use a home-brewed wipe-on varnish that can best be described as an oil-based alkyd. I go with a satin finish as I try to preserve the natural beauty of the wood, whether it be swamp ash, alder, mahogany, or even pine. I also try to accent the grain (conservatively). But hey, different strokes for the different folks...it's all good! Thanks for the video!
Just finished by Guitar's neck with Water based Polyurethane. The dry time for me was way way faster. Took just 20 minutes for 2 coats. Just an amazing results. NO COLOR CHANGE IN MAPLE AND FULLY SEALED THE WOOD WITH VERY THIN COATS
I build rustic guitars, and in my opinion, nothing brings out "the look" better than boiled linseed oil. Sand guitar to 320 and 4 to 5 coats of hand rubbed boiled linseed oil does wonders. Nice protective coat, and it keeps the rustic look of the wood.
I'm going to watch this later, definitely interested in seeing the comparison between these.
So far, I've used Minwax on one, and it was OK, but nothing special. I did spray lacquor on my first strat kit from China and my octave mando (that you've seen). It's certainly nice, but it takes lots of coats.
I did Tru-Oil on the Rockabilly and my younger daughter's Ukulele. I do like it's finish, but you're right it definitely has a yellowing.
I may do a poly on my next one, in part because it's softer wood (my leftover staircase tread wood), and I want a strong finish that's strong.
Never tried a shellac, might be worth trying.
But nice overview, and I'm definitely interested in trying some of the poly finishes, as that's the one I haven't done.
great video. ive been using minwax wipe on poly for 15 years.. I use a latex glove and wipe on a thin layer every 30 min 3 or 4 layers. then sand with 3m pad… I use about 15 layers , that makes a almost laquer looking finish .. ultra smooth and poly needs no reapplication over time… it does have a ambering effect on maple.. my last build I used water based .. and same results , less coats.. but. that stuff is dry before you can wipe it on! my 2 cents
This is EXACTLY the video I was looking for this week, Dan! I have a project I want to finish as soon as possible and I’ve been trying to decide which finish to go with to get this baby in action. I think I’m going to dye it blue, coat with some blue tinted shellac and then maybe some tru oil over the top. I used tru oil on a neck for a guitar last year and it’s help up great so far! Thanks for the video!
I know this video is old but I use the Varathane stain and poly on all my woodworking projects if I’m not using oil. The satin in 4-6 decently thin coats is perfect for a guitar neck and 8-10 on the headstock and body and any other part of the guitar that may get more use. You’ll get a shine without the gloss and without the gloss feeling if that makes sense. An untinted satin poly over any flat color will give you a good matte finish.
I like Minwax water-based polyurethane in satin, then rubbed with 00 steel wool. I also like to thin with pure water to allow a thinner coat.
It is easy to apply multiple coats, and also it dries in less than an hour. This is best for guitar bodies. I prefer boiled linseed oil on necks and fingerboards. You can add a small amount of Japan drier to allow the oil to dry faster.
I've always used tru oil with great results. I recently built a live edge table and finished it with a product called Rubio Monocoat. Very easy to apply, rub it on wipe it off, one or two coats and it's a hardwood floor finish so should be durable. I have some left I think I'll try on my next guitar project.
The satin finish is super clean. That's nice
I greatly lament that Formbys is gone. It was beautiful on a Richard's stock I bought in around '87. Used Truoil on a Rem 700 ADL lately. MULtiple coats. I like your video.
I recently purchased a Ric-like bass kit you had recently shown. Being pretty good with wood but terrible with finishes I thought I would try one of these. I used the True Oil and I am quite impressed with myself. Lol. This build isn’t finished yet but the body and neck look fantastic. Like a $1000 custom build. Well why not. I put $400 into a $200 kit with a new bridge, custom wiring harness And Ric-like pick-ups. I had to do a lot of routing and sanding but the results are well worth it. Thanks for all of your advice and how to’s!!
There was a premier guitar article a few years back about refinishing a sticky guitar neck with shellac and mineral spirits. It brought my partscaster strat back to life. Excited to try some of these on my next build!
Musical instruments Violins Pianos etc used to always be finished with shellac (or wax). in the olden days. Stradivarius !
I used the Verithane shown here on some cabinets that I painted with flat paint. It worked great, but the way I applied it was with a small fine-fabric roller so I could roll it on smooth and even. They have a nice protective sheen to them and it looks good. You do have to be careful with the application cause it will splotch and such. Looks like the Tru Oil was the winner as far as guitars go.
Yep Tru Oil is the best. Been using it on everything for years
Water-based poly works great as a durable finish over oil stains or shellac
They're also repairable like lacquer as opposed to oil polys
Absolutely. True Oil is fantastic
Hit the nail on the head for me on this one Dan.
Needing a new Finishing product
With Formby's priced the same as 2 Teslas per pint
Prefect timing,
As I'm about to finish 2 guitars that are precious to me.
One belonged to my dad. long since passed away.
The other an early 60's Harmony H45. one of my first guitars.
Thanks again.
Its definitely good to see a few options. I've mostly built partscasters and don't have a lot of experience doing my own finishing, but my dad got me a piece of black walnut for Christmas, so I guess I'm going to have to learn lol.
That Tele is gorgeous! That burl REALLY popped with the shellac!
I've spotted that Shellac can at the beggining of the video and just remember a small documentary I saw on shellac and how it's made and I was definitely intrigued as to how it would fair and honestly, I might try it out for my first build as it does seem to be the most forgiving of them all.
Absolutelly great and instructive video. I will try Shellac next time !! I know that Shellac was used in classical guitar and violins for a few centuries.. So no surprize that it works. Modern shellac is just much more practical to apply.
“Cons of Shellac:
Weak protection against heat, water, solvents, and chemicals - this makes it less than ideal for tabletops or high use furniture pieces
Weak resistance to wear
Short shelf life
Easily damaged by alcohol.”
Shellac is the traditional finish for fine classical and flamenco guitars. A downside to the finish is that it can be dissolved by alcohol. Exercise excellent booze control! An upside is that imperfections can be repaired with more coats instead of stripping the whole instrument.
I’ve used several of those also. I like the shellac. I prefer to buy flakes and Mix them myself. The upside of mixing yourself is you can use it as a filler (basically make it thick)or you can make it really thin. The reason it gets sticky is that each layer dissolves the previous. To make your mix really non-toxic you can go buy everclear (or similar) from the liquor store. Can’t imagine drinking it, but you could.
Why am I just finding your channel man. Two things I love. Guns and guitars lol 😂
Great video. I used Formby's on my first couple builds in the late 80s. He had a TV show called Formby's Antique Workshop when i was growing up. I learned a lot from that show.
I switched to wipeon poly a few years back with good results.
I've tried several water based finishes but never was thrilled with any water based finish I've tried. Some raise grain and thats a pain.
A popular choice with furniture makers seems to be a mix of either 1/3 pure tung oil or boiled linseed oil, 1/3 mineral spirits and 1/3 polyurethane.
They’ve been using shellac on Classical guitars since the beginning. And Yamaha still makes their classical guitars with shellac using 200 coats, yes you heard that right 200 coats. It takes three months to finish because you shellac then sand it back, add another thin coat then sand it back, and so on and so forth. Thin coats is the key.
I finished my mahogany strat with wipe on tinted shellac more than ten years ago. I put on a lot of coats and it took almost a month to cure but in the end it polished up nicely and still looks great. Shellac is also good as a base coat for glossy finishes as almost everything sticks to it. I have always used spray on shellac for necks both the backs and the fingerboards of maple necks.
I used a water based poly on my Peavy Foundation bass when I completely redid it about 18 years ago and it's still a fantastic finish today.
Shellac is the traditional finish for piano soundboards. It has limited scratch resistance but is easily repaired and won’t darken over time.
I used the gun stock oil on a Firebird build and it came out good. It's a great option for those that don't have the ability or don't want to spray Lacquer.
If I understand correctly Shellac is the medium used in what if know as a French Polish. I have seen a few guitar builders on RUclips that build classical acoustic guitars use it. Of course they may apply 15 to 20 or more coats and buff it to a high gloss.
Good video, but a few points about shellac. It's one of the oldest and most commonly used finishes out there, but mostly used on classical instruments like violins and acoustic guitars. It can produce a great finish, but the downsides are it gets dull fairly fast and like you said, takes a fair bit of work to get a good result.
The main downside is, it doesn't really deal that well with moisture, so if you have sweaty hands or play outside a lot, it can be a bit of a problem.
I know some high-end classical guitar makers use a fresh homemade shellac finish as it is very open and resonant and does not hinder the resonance of a high-quality classical instrument.
Guitar re-ranch sells a spray on celluloid that I've used on several guitar builds. I'm a fan.
You should try mixing your own tru oil alternative Combining boiled linseed oil, polyurethane, and mineral spirits.
I'm refurbishing my fist guitar I made, in 1982. I used Standard Brands lacquer back then. I want to try brush on Fast dry Minwax poly which I used on a kitchen table that came out great. Going to plug the controls cavity, rebind both sides and finish clear after a light red stain on the birdeys eye neck-through and mahogany sides.
I saw a good video on Old Masters Tung Oil Varnish. Looked kinda like what Formby's Tung Oil was.
Maybe someone else has mentioned but rather than shellac being uncommon as a guitar finish it was used in the French polish process in the majority of vintage Spanish classical guitars. It is durable, beautiful, and the finish can be replenished pretty easily.
This video is truly an Early Christmas gift, just bought some truoil and I can't wait till it gets here
Old Masters makes a wipe on gel polyurethane that I use in my woodworking shop. Goes on super easy and has a nice satin finish.
Unless that Varathane product says its ok to use steel wool to sand back with, I'd recommend using 400 grit paper between coats. On occasion I'll use an oil based product, but I heavily use waterbased finishing systems. Everyone I've ever used says do not use steel wool, because of potential rust spots if it does not get cleaned out of grain thoroughly. The variation in sheen on spots of the guitar usually means it needs to be sanded more uniformally to build the coats evenly. The finish soaks into the more porous grain leaving it look flat. Therefore you need to effectively level sand the "high" spots back to the more dull spots. Then repeat the process until the flat areas have that uniform look.
Love that Rickenbacker bass.
Great content! Shellac is something I will definitely try on the future!
Awesome video Dan
It’s got me thinking about doing a kit before and after my surgery
I have recently discovered in my research that shellac has been used for hundreds of years on acoustics violins etc. So after hearing your review and now that my Formby‘s supply is almost out it is time to try something new. I hear the really good stuff is dewaxed shellac which you add alcohol to it and comes in a plastic bag. I believe places like wood craft or other woodworking Stores carry this. Not to mention Stew Mac has it
Water-based poly makes a very durable finish. It's basically plastic polymer bead suspension in water. When the water dries, the polymer coalesces into hard coating. The finished product is hard and quite resistant to everyday chemicals and body oils. It's definitely plastic-y.
Once I found out that shelac is all-natural, and even used to preserve candy shells, I started using it as a salad dressing.
The Varathane water based, in using this I have found it to look and feel plasticity, and on water based finishes you need an extra coat. Shellac is interesting because it is used in a French Polish, use don high end instruments. One big advantage to shellac is it actually “melts” and bonds tot he previous coats. So you end up with one total coat, when you have applied multiple times.
Put on three or four heavy coats of shellac. Then use a buffing wheel or even a car buffer with a wood shine restoring compound. Beautiful. If you want it to look deep without so much shine put another thin coat on.
Tru oil makes the grain of the wood really come to life.
Shellac should be applied with a fine natural hair brush in medium wet coats, and allowed to dry over night, then wet sanded with 600 grit paper. The final finish will still be thin after 4 coats, because shellac is alcohol based... 80% of the liquid vapes off. The only problem with shellac is it has low durability. I usually top it off with a coat of poly.
Thanks for the tip Tim!
The water-based Varithane on the neck and the Shelack on the body. I’d try that. Sorry ‘bout my spelling. Another great video. Thanks! Your videos do help tremendously!
Truoil all the way. It’s beautiful for necks and if you want high gloss just wipe on a bunch of coats.
But Dan, you didn't feature Satin OSMO Poly-X oil in this video! It's really great stuff. I agree with your choices here none the less. Great video.
I’ve only ever used wipe on poly for my projects, so I don’t worry about yellowing. But I’ve used Tru-oil specifically on necks. Just to keep a natural feel, something that isint sticky. But especially with wipe on poly, if the colour isint sealed. It’s going to bleed through, learned that on my first Kit.
How do you seal the colour?