Sig P320 Loses in Court For Now - Sioux Falls Hostage Situation
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maybe manual safeties were the friends we met along the way
*and lost
@@ReticentIndignation 😭
“If there was a .1% chance that the gun would randomly go off I would not carry it.” Yes.
This is why my P320 has been a paperweight for the last few years.
Even if for every 1 person saying the gun has an issue, or goes off on its own, there is 1000 people loving it, that doesn't make it a good or safe gun. What's still a dangerous, potentially deadly, gamble. Even Taurus striker fired guns don't randomly go off.
Sig may have actual fault which testing could reproduce and verify. Given how the 320 started and how Sig execs almost certainly knew they shipped the early 365s with defective strikers there is A "Pattern Established". That said this being A gun company there is likely "Politics" and "Precedent Seeking" involved too.
Yep, all sides have a lot of bias.
@@FocusTrippmaybe Honest Outlaw Reviews could weigh in. I’ve seen his video’s on the P320.
@@MHSMokeEaterdude works for leviathan, his reviews aren’t worth shit
@@Jeffro_1 he’s made videos on they’re failure’s as well.
Classroom cop was a ATF agent, and no one is as professional as him and qualified to handle the gun. Almost a direct quote.
Gun guys when you make fun of PSA for poorly made guns: 😁😁😁
Same gun guys when you make jokes about Sig: 😡😡😡
I see several comments here that need to hear something very important. Pointing out that SIG sucks at designing and manufacturing firearms isn’t Bloomberg propoganda any more than pointing out that PSA/BCA/Anderson/Desert Tech/ LMT/BRO etc... have shitty QC. There are multiple factors that go into P320s being dogwater outside of cops being really good at shooting themselves (see glock leg in the 90's). Almost all of them have something to do with that "spectacular trigger" everyone goes on about. Sear surfaces in the fire control group are weak, the firing pin block can be wedged in the unlocked position with very little force, the striker sits in full cock regardless of the presence of a trigger/manual safety, and the trigger can release the sear with lateral pressure applied it. Those 4 factors alone account for several notable instances where the guns went off in holsters. Those 4 factors make the gun not holster safe. The design and its derivatives are not holster safe without the external safties. SIG seems to have figured this out with the P365. I don't think they sell it without a manual safety. It also doesnt help that the only ineetial safety in the P320 without the manual safety is the firing pin block. Most every other striker fired handgun on the market has at least two inertial safeties for a reason.
You haven't looked at the P365 models very closely, have you?
@ArmedLalafell Not really. I tend to stay away from companies that rely on name recognition for profits over sound engineering.
LATERAL PRESSURE? Do you have a source for that? I wanna send that to a friend of mine who has a 320.
@poisonouslead85 I can't remember the channel, but there's a holster manufacturer that did a video trying to defend SIG after the holster kick discharge and set the gun off with lateral pressure in his video. Dude put two and two together while siggers everywhere pointed to a TQ as "evidence" the the gun wasn't fully seated despite the fact that it was.
@@brianzimmerman4837 They sell some P365s without a manual safety
There’s a competitive shooter. I’m sure I’m gonna get his name wrong. I believe his Genghis, where he had his gun go off in his holster never pulling the trigger. The bullet bounced off his pocket knife.
According to Sig, it was a defective Spring to set the gun off.
There is a video of him talking about it . There was a bunch of witnesses.
Credit where it's due, thats @gunghis. For some reason I thought that was a true north concepts holster plate
@@feetoorourke yes that it. Thank you
I remember 6 years ago when a guy filmed a dude dropping a P320 (barrel first) on the floor to test if it would go off, and it going bang on the first try.
There’s a lot of those videos, easy to find
Didn't security footage of a 320 going off in a cop holster get released like 10 months ago and it was bumped on the slide as well?
It sounds like it may be a sear engagement issue. The first batch of 320s we got at the gun store I worked at had VERY slight sear engagement. If the FCU is slightly loose in the frame, it could seem reasonable that the sear engagement is slight enough that the slide being bumped or pushed upwards could disengage the sear/striker engagement. I mean the Cross rifles had the same issue so it's not too far away to assume they screwed up again. The next batch that came in had noticeably heavier and longer trigger pulls. Ca
The man with the slick ass intros
To chime in about the 357 Sig:
I’ve recently converted to this cartridge (and Glocks) specifically for one loading of it: the 65gr Xtreme Defender load by Underwood. It’s offering a 65gr projectile rated at 2,100fps out of a 4.5” barrel. I’ve seen videos of it going even faster out of a longer barrel, which is why I bought a G35 and a threaded 357 Sig barrel for it, for maximum barrel length and thus velocity.
I don’t have access to a chronograph, but I’m hoping for at least 2,200fps with this extra barrel length. The videos of this round in ballistic gel are incredible, getting near rifle ballistics out of a standard size frame handgun. Plus, being a 65gr projectile, the ammo is lighter, and the trajectory is flatter, making it much more versatile, especially in the PDW platform I’m working on (basically a glock based flux raider).
The idea here is to get as close to rifle ballistics and ease of aiming as I can, yet still have a tiny portable package that also shares mags and ammo with my EDC, which is effectively a G32 with a grip chop.
I could go on about all the details but that’s the overview.
So yeah, some of us still like, use, and advocate for 357sig!!
That's a pretty weaksauce load ngl. Standard pressure Liberty ammo makes 2300 and there's some 50gr. 9mm +p loads out there that makes 2400 out of a pistol and 2700 from a rifle. You should be able to get much better velocities than that with some powder tweaks but you'd be treading into unknown territory and risking your fingers.
Like for the like God, comments for the comment throne!
I have shot several 320s, and honestly hated it. They have a very light trigger which is achieved by having a fully cocked striker with very little engagement on the seer and I would expect some fairly light springs. The m+p has a better set-up and more robust set of internal safeties, as well as the inertial trigger safety.
The 320 is NOT innovative. It was designed to use parts and tooling they made for the 250, which was a DAO gun that no one liked.
LMT (Learning Machining Together). I’ve a abandoned purchasing their products because of multiple QC issues I’ve encountered with their EBolts and uppers
Yea I have 2 friends that work there and they have told me all kinds of insider dirt. Put it this way, I have 2 LMT rifles and don't plan an buying anymore based on what they've told me.
Basically you have a few issues. For one the management team is garbage. They apparently push QC failures thru. So it's not like the QC team isn't catching the stuff(they are) they are just being ordered to push the stuff thru. Another thing that I've been told is that all the good guys that used to work there are gone..they've also decreased the accuracy standards of their barrels.
I had a e-bolt get warrantied because the lugs were getting chewed up. When I got the new one I sold it for $250 and was not sad. lol. Unnecessary unless you’re mag dumbing a suppressed 10.5” 5.56 100% of the time, in my opinion. But I bought into the cool aid and wanted one lol
Welp, this would have been good to know before buying an lmt upper...
As for what's actually causing it to go off, I've heard some claims that the firing pin block can actually get stuck in the disengaged position, and this may be the issue in many of these cases.
ahhhh
Sig undercuts everybody else to get those contracts, they also hired someone who was a big deal in terms of choosing who gets military contracts, so they have a guy who knows people, too. They also give reaaally good bjs
0:01 "I know we're losing; I want to know if we lost" - Kat B320/SIG P320
There's another youtuber (I forget his name) he had or still has a video where he talks about his experience on the range with a p320. His pistol went off while on the range and in the holster (I don't remember what he said he did right before it went off). He wasn't hurt and he did send it back and it was a defect in the gun that caused it go off. I'm pretty sure he had a post fix gun also. I personally think that some sig p320s have a defect that cause them to go off. I don't think an external safety is necessarily needed but I believe the US military specifically chose the version with a safety to prevent any such NDs due to possible mechanical failure. I have had a sig p320 m18x (no external safety) for a short time and the gun seems reliable. I hope I don't get shot by it lol.
Does the 320 not have a plunger safety like a glock that has to be depressed by the trigger bar moving?
Not on the 320. It's wierd hook thing made from a stamping.
Ive had 2 P320s. I threw an Agency after market trigger which was nice, and i got a Flux Chassis for the other.
I _want_ to like the P320, i really do, but other modular pistols exist without the mechanical issues and without being a cheap striker conversion of a less than great DAO gun.
Let’s be honest no other handgun manufacturer has had this many complaints of their factory guns firing when not wanted. Where there is smoke there is fire.
Oh really? You must be new, there were more in the 90’s with Glock. Ever hear of the term “Glock Leg” genius? How about the NY Trigger? Those guns weren’t going off by themselves and neither are these. Way to push the Bloomberg propaganda!
30 years ago you may have had a point.
@@thegreenberetlife0191 Let’s be honest now we all know “Glock leg” was caused by people who did not understand striker fire handguns shooting themselves because they didn’t keep their finger off the trigger.
Glocks since their inception in the 80’s have always been even drop safe (unlike the sig p320) and Glock has not lost in a court of law in the same way SIG has either.
Also the fact you needed to go back roughly 30 years ago when the very concept of striker fired pistol was still a relatively new thing proves my point that SIG is putting out unsafe products. SIG by your own standards is learning the lessons Glock and other gun companies learned decades year ago, because fast forward decades later we call “Glock leg” stupidity and negligence as we all should.
@@FocusTripp The Sig P320 came out in 2014. Name one modern striker fire pistol made around the same time that has had a comparable amount of discharging issues like the P320.
@thegreenberetlife0191 M8, there were multiple people who had their gun go off in their samn holsters when they did nothing wrong! How is that their fault? There is literally footage of a security guard whose 320 went off in his holster when he did literally nothing.
I bought the Alien Gear Rapid Force G17 holster because of FocusTripp's review on it, and so far it's been amazing. I was always very critical of Alien Gear's products (but mainly due to the aesthetic of their holsters) but the Rapid Force is the exception. I'm running a full size PSA Dagger frame w/custom slide and Radian Afterburner comp. I'm actually planning to get another one soon. I'm not too sure about their thigh strap TQ though.
Stock tier list when?
The sig simping in the chat last night was hilarious
I honestly didn't realize what this video was about. I saw Phoenix Wright and I clicked play.
"universal" light based holster do not all suck. The Phlster Floodlight and Tier 1 MSP are both awesome holsters, even if i found the MSP uncomfortable personally. ive been using a Floodlight for 3+ years and its the best holster i have owned period. Phlster is love.
Remember, Sig _DID_ admit that the P320 was defective..... _because they recalled them_ and replaced parts with different designs. If the gun was fine they wouldnt have needed to change anything.
Great discussion, thanks guys.
The police at that gas station had a perfect use case for 300blk.
It's insane how much I had to reword this to be able to post it. YT censorship is draconian...
Sorry man.
@@FocusTripp c'est la vie. Atleast your content makes it out.
Another fun one! Thanks for the share!!
I think it’s safe to safely Sig needs to redesign a new trigger setup with a dingus if that if indeed the issue. I could be wrong of if they’re is something more of an internal issue. Has IWI or Beretta have any issue similar to their modular Pistol’s?
Hey, I think it's time for you to check out defense depot. They're resurrecting the DPMS G2 pattern ar10. Making nitrided titanium carries too. You want a 7# 14.5 6.5 creedmoor ar10, it's the place.
I will take a look.
@@FocusTripp can't wait man. I really love the G2 receiver sets, and dimensional improvements in the smaller lighter gun. It's absolutely awesome to have a .308 that weighs about the same as a slightly heavier than average AR-15. I just wish Remington didn't shit the bed in the first place with the platform.
Why arent people suing them for the guns that grenade themselves at the chamber? I saw a dude's explode at a competition and contrary to SIGs explanation, he was not shooting hand loads. Their answer to everything is to always shift responsibility to the user. I owned a first gen MCX that had problem after problem. Got the run around enough so i sold the damned thing to a kid that said he knew how to fix it. Shortly after, Sig abandoned it for the gen 2 anyway. F Sig
20:36 Walther and Canik have entered the chat.
All a 320 gives you is a light and mushy trigger with no discernable break. A crisp trigger is what makes it good not the pull weight, that's why competitive shooters shoot 1911's and 2011's.
Doesnt matter what issues sig has, they could be the worst gun to buy, millions of folks will still buy sigs because they have to copy their favorite youtube navy seals. And if former seals turned internet celebrities says to buy sig, you better buy it.
357 sig is the cartridge of the future of 1995
Also, are we gonna ignore the dozens of Sig breaking the frame or the sig 320s that are military are using breaking right out of the box.
Huge corner to cut. What other pistol has had this bad of a track record in modern history? They didn’t test it at all.
Wow RUclips just unsubscribed me! Everyone double check you’re still subscribed
Use Brave or Opera .................. NOT anything "Goo" or anything "MS". I suspect it is NOT A coincidence that since I changed browsers that "Unsubscribed Glitch" has not happened.
Switch to Brave or Opera.
@@AKloverI use brave, but that doesn't prevent youtube from un subbing you. It just blocks ads.
RA is nuts for saying the P320 has an amazing trigger. That has to be one of the absolute worst triggers I have ever felt on anything that didn't say GLOCK or HIPOINT on the slide, and I was fucking around with their retardedly priced high end models. Absolutely garbage break, and a weak reset.
The one I played with was an axg, I don't know how much of a difference that makes compared to the standard one.
Yeah I don't know how he came to that conclusion. Walther's full size striker pistols have fantastic triggers and Caniks are equally as good if not better.
@@feetoorourkeNot much, maybe 4.5lbs instead of 5.5lbs but they all feel the same to me having played with a lot of them
@@dutch4260 Canik triggers are really good. I have yet to see a ppq in the wild though, and I don't think it's fair to comment on something I'm not familiar with. P365 is trash though. I'd rather take 43x with a flat trigger shoe.
You guys should just buy the CA compliant P320's because CA requires them to be drop tested and safety tested to be on the roster 😏
Drop testing isn't the issue here
I have a 320 xcarry. Used it as daily carry and gone through multiple training classes with allot of holstering, unholstering(in a safariland als). No issues. But i have just recently gone to my trusty hammer fired SA 229. Modern media is very powerful in shaping mindset of the masses. I truly believe the only way 320's are going off is with a trigger manipulation. But yet these news reports made me change my EDC. I'll wait and see.
It's pretty obvious the 320 has a problem. There are no news articles for other firearms reporting random discharges
20:35
VP9 has entered the chat
Stocks tier list!
Why do b5 stocks suck? What makes them objectively worse? I say run what's comfortable for you. I know guys who shoot waaaaay better than me and they still prefer RIS era m4 stocks.
yep
Neither of my p80’s have ever fired without me intentionally pulling the trigger. I’m just saying 🤷🏾♂️
As much as sig gets hate they are one of the only companies that get big contracts that actually bring the contract guns to the public.
Yeah it's a little less noble as a sales tactic though right, they're selling handguns to the military for like 200 a pop and to the civilian for 700.
What?!? Colt, FN, Beretta, Glock, all available at your local gunstore
@@rickyspanish9002 colt was making civilian ars before contracts. The scar was an exception, Glock was sold to civilians in the us before the military
@@codyy8006 and sig developed the 320s before they got the military contract for them. Your comment makes no sense
I keep thinking about buying a Sig, and then I buy something else. Oh I do have a sig red dot.
@@Logan2070 only good thing sig branded is their optics
@@cardboard_shaft That's because it's mostly Nikon. They bought Nikon's sport optics division.
Who is this side-kick? Why are we listening to him. Not seeing the value. Just constructive criticism from one critic to another
Lmao I have a logitech g502 also and I always back out of webpages by accidentally bumping the back but- I mean uhh it happens on its own! The back button on the G502 will go off without touching it. Where's my 2.5mil from Logitech?
A lot of smoke for no fire sigsimp.
If you’re going to do a stocks tier list, please include the fortis LA stock and those stupid AR PDW stocks. I really want to hear your opinions and hops.😂
1 guy has nice clean working area & the other guy Gary is surrounded by shit 💩. Just my take on what is.
Point on the doll where FCD hurt you
*points at wallet*
Bump
222
Crazy how guns fire when someone hits the trigger
P320s are going off from just inertial drops on the floor all by themselves selves. They are designed poorly.
@@Mikey_Chopps This was supposedly fixed from 2019 forward though no?
@@d8ed78*supposed* to be, yes.. but Sig continues to destroy its reputation within the industry with a seemingly endless parade of problems with their products... its a shame what they've become
People saying the p320 has issues:
Mine being just fine after being beat with a hammer (never “discharging”):
that didn’t happen lol
@@cardboard_shaft you’re just too poor to scratch a standard price handgun, do your own research and stop reading everything online ;)
@@coltonriggan4072sorry, all the research is online
@@coltonriggan4072 your gun sucks and isn’t safe lol
Upload a vid then