👟 Step into your spontaneous activities with Vessi! Discover comfort and versatility at vessi.com/saberspark for an instant 15% off your first order upon checkout! This was a tough topic to discuss but it's a story worth covering especially in the effort of raising public awareness. I've made a $1,000 donation to Darkness to Light, a wonderful charity that fights against CSEM. If you'd like, please consider donating! d2l.coalitionmanager.org/donormanager/donation/create
> Be *Mighty Magiswords* fans > Fans see *Mighty Magiswords* trending on twitter > "Oh my God Is trending!? Are we finally getting a seasons 3!!? Lets gooooooooo-" click trending > "-oooh... God."
@@tanner201x8I mean, I really liked the show when it was airing I loved the humor, the art style, the characters and pretty much still do But this is an issue of separating creator from creation
Fun fact: the characters from magiswords are not inspired by lupin. They are a blatant ripoff of Lina and Goury from Slayers. But you weren't wrong in them being anime "inspired"
It’s really disgusting when people say that he looks like a pedo. Pedos don’t look like anything. They can look like regular people. They can seem like really chill people, but in reality, they’re monsters. A person who man think look like a monster could be the kindest person in the world.
Nah some people are just more obvious just by looking at them. You can't tell me you wouldn't look at this dude and at least think he has a few screws loose. He clearly has a completely out of control eating disorder, dresses strangely, acts odd, and has mutton chops, dude. Not all degenerates have to be obvious, but people have a tendency to express themselves, and some tend to be more expressive than others.
Human brains had to evolve to form stereotypes about people's appearance because we needed to know in seconds that the tribe with curly hair and differently shaped eyes gives food and helps in fights while the tribe of men who have sharpened teeth and walk funny like to take captives and messily turn them into eunuch slaves with a sharp rock.
Mighty Magiswords, this is the last cartoon network's show for me when I'm entering high school. Found out the short notification news, the creator of mighty magiswords is part of the ovhoe list this month, before Kris Tyson Mr Beast's friend on the clutches. (Not Like Us always expose anyone like an virus OMG)
@@V1SIT0R64he was a famous glam rockstar who liked his girls young ,really young If you seem joker his most famous song is the one that plays when joker dances down the stairs
I remember following Kyle back in the days when he was still just posting webcomics and such. I thought he was a pretty cool dude. Had a really nice style to his art. I was really glad he finally got his big breakthrough with his own show. And then when I heard there was a scandal involving him, I thought "Aww man, not him too, he seemed like a cool guy. What did he do, say something extremely problematic out loud or behave like an asshole?" And *then* I found out what the scandal was about, and realized he was very much NOT a cool guy.
I believe that Kyle is innocent, till proven guilty, remember the allegations made against Kwite and how the internet called him very bad names like "PDF" but he ended up being innocent all along?
I actually interacted with this guy back during my uni days. I needed to do an interview with people in the field I wanted to explore (ie. animators/showrunners) so I reached out. And unfortunately (or fortunately now), because of timezones, i slept through my alarm so I never got to interview him. When I asked if we could still do it, he said he had dinner and couldnt. I felt so embarrassed. Absolute nightmare of a situation. Neither of us interacted again. I wanted to bury that whole 'i fumbled interacting with a showrunner' situation. Now I can safely say, I dont feel a lick of embarrassment or shame. What an absolutely disgusting individual.
Don't forget that they ruined a coworker's life, slandered them & made it so they couldnt get life saving treatment ALL because they drew NSFW art on a *private* Twitter account. Meanwhile Kyle was a legitimate criminal with actual "cheese pizza"
It will forever anger me to no end that this was allowed to happen. Saying he was “traumatized” by invader zim porn yet went on to help fund the traumatization of REAL LIVING BREATHING CHILDREN…… this happens literally every single time, I’m so tired of it.
We were developing an adaptation of Frog Raccoon Strawberry, one of Kyle's webcomics. When word got out about his arrest, we have been in severe shock and disbelief. Many of us had looked up to Kyle until that very day when we learned the truth. We cancelled Frog Racoon Strawberry and moved on to other projects without Kyle's involvement.
That's quite depressing to hear. Having to hear about your favored figure show it's truest colors from within is total betrayal. Sometimes, the dark truth can lead people to confusion and disgust. It feels like so many well known people have already gotten exposed each month this year and to think said person was trusted by many.
@@SpaceXfan2005 Dude, stop. You're not making yourself look any better with this. Trust me, I used to defend him for smaller things, and it doesn't lead to people being on your side.
My mum would always tell me to "clean at my doormat first" because once you're a clean person and accuse/argue with someone, they won't have anything to backfire
Damn, I guess according to you, James Bond and Brock Turner should just look the other way on any grape and sa they witness then. Sure, they'd effectively be an enabler to a shrex crime in that situation - but at least they're not a hypocrite, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
@@vaitti8096Ya it is what you meant. Both Bond and Turner clearly don't have clean doormats (to put it VERY mildly), therefore they should just let any bad thing they witness just happen. Sorry your logic just leads to you to some nasty grape apologia. Sounds like a you problem, really. You realize the Church of Scientology constantly digs up dirt on anyone who criticizes them BECAUSE they know people like you exist, right? Maybe... maybe people shouldn't have to be complete saints (clean doormats, if you will) in order to say and do based things - and therefore your mum's advice should be chucked in a dumpster?
@@beans1325 I didn't really mean it as for the whole situation going on, just the thing where they would call out other people for having inappropriate things or be into inappropriate stuff while they themselves were apart of such thing as well. It just reminded me of that
Ang took the right steps to cope with her trauma by keeping it behind a private account not for the eyes of minors or other survivors who might be triggered by the content. Art therapy is a common suggestion for those with childhood trauma, or trauma in general. My therapist gave me the same advice in middle school and it helped immensely. It's okay to be disturbed or disgusted even, it's not for you, it's for them.
Egocentric creeps don't think they'll be caught, and either don't care that they're causing harm, or they love doing it. "It's not a crime if you don't get caught" is a usually a joke, but some people legitimately think that.
I've lost all respect for him. He is dead to us. He has shamed the entire animation industry. I am no longer a fan of his show. He's no better than John K.
@@princkleminckle1159 Kyle is essentially John without any of the success of a studio or being able to get away with it for decades. Both are disturbed af and deserve to be black listed.
It’s just so weird having talked with Kyle and created stuff with him. It’s just so hollow feeling now. I’ve had to deal with my sister being a victim of CP and SA. It’s just- disgusting
Like… 3 months before the arrest I think. A friend of mine and I are making an abridged series of the legend of Zelda cartoon called ‘WAMP’ (Well Abridge Me Princess) and he helped write the theme song and sung it too. Voiced one of the fan favorite characters as well. We’re still going to work on our series, we’re just replacing everything kyle touched
I'm still trying to process that police had to parse through all the photos on his hard drive, knowing that there were photos of me & some of my mutuals on it. I feel disgusted. I'm not a victim because he paid for it legally and we're adults, but knowing what our content was lumped up with feels.. violating. Like I've literally met his wife, this is insane
@@ThorneChanOfficial christ I didn’t even think of that- god. Hi ‘The Cops’ don’t mind me! I’m almost 21! Still a kid to some people. I have had a nightmare where an image of my own sister was in the 600 car pile up of CP. Recently talked to her about the whole thing and she said I’m handling it as best as I can. We can’t do anything but stare in disgust and awe at the horrific actions
@@Koolkitty_9 Ang ruined Ang's life with Ang's actions! We all know the abused can become abusers! Trying to cowardlyact yourself doesn't make you a saint!
@@seliamila1005 At no point am I "defending Kyle". That's YOUR imagination. The deviant who collects this type of images is SHOWING YOU WHO THEY ARE. Don't assume "art means just fiction" because that's what they want! The "silliness" of cartoon characters gives them PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY! The Ancient Greeks did this stuff! AND carved it onto drinking vessels AND painted it onto vases! Art can very well be documentation of actual acts. Creeps have been around a long time and the camera is a recent invention!
Honestly, the second worst part of ALL of this for me is that unfortunately, Kyle just hits that perfect appearance that people would look at him offhandedly and say he's a creep who probably likes kids. So that's what people are saying, going 'He LOOKS like he'd like that' and such. And that's just pushing more of that pseudo-criminology 'You can tell just by looking' bullshit that's the source of a lot of discrimination over things someone can't change. I literally know a dude who by such terms would probably be considered a conman or a sleeze who hits on women in bars. But he's legitimately one of the hardest working and friendliest people I know, one of my father's best friends, and has a very loving relationship with his wife and daughter. Obviously the worst part of all of this is literally everything Kyle was involved in.
absolutely. this also makes it easier for people to pray on others because looking a certain way will help them get away with things. can we leave this back in the victorian era with the racist/sexist/queerphobic/ableist people who made up the science? it’s literally incel science.
Exactly this. Like if you’re a fat not conventionally attractive man I guess you must be a pedo 🙄 this shit is so harmful. It also undermines the truth that predators can look like ANYONE, a guy that looks like a supermodel could be just as much of a creep but no one would be saying “oh I could tell because he looks like THAT.” The idea that the way you look is indicative of your character or morals is a very very old and insidious way of thinking
Yeah that so messed up. This isn't the first time someone said they hate loli and it turns out they have images the "real thing" Happens to so many people. Some tell tale signs
@@MegabombGamer-rb5khIt depicts kids in cornographic situations. Lolisho is CP. Take your 'bUt No ReAl ChIlDrEn' loophole, and shove it. All you'd be doing there is showing you're no different from the dips who go 'aCtUaLlY iT's EpHeBoPhIlIa!'
I just want to say to everyone but especially you Saber, the coworker recently victimized by Kyle who was making fictional art on their private account was doing so as a coping mechanism for their own real life trauma, trauma that Kyle also added to. According to modern science, such works of art hold no water to a person’s own morality and might in fact be a means to healthily cope with past trauma. **Telling people they are horrible just because they made fictional content when they didn’t harm any real people HARMS and BLAMES REAL VICTIMS.**
@@aroseydragon2873 FALSE! What "science"? Psychology is a pseudoscience much like cosmetology with crazy trends. This "vent art" excuse is just PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY, which the groomer will always have! And a lot of these psychologists are worse than the patients! They got into the field to figure themselves out! The cartoons often depict a record of what the perpetrator really did to victims and can also be used to groom future victims. Kids are raised on cartoons so they don't see the red flag!
That's actually unusually low for such a high profile target. A lot of times when some dude gets caught like this it's terabytes upon terabytes. I'm always reminded of that skit from Game Grumps or Supermega or something during their Sonic Adventure 2 lp about the Indian Jones style gauntlet protecting the 5 petabytes of ceepee.
Here’s a thing I don’t understand about pedophiles why do they download cp onto there computer or create evidence against themselves are they that horny they need to download it
I can just imagine dilbert seeing his new black co-worker trying to identify as white, then just sighing, pulling out a ladder to the real world, and ascending with a rifle...
Throwing in my two cents here: First off, I always side-eyed this show before anything about the creator came out. You mentioned Lupin the Third being the inspiration for the characters in Magiswords, but Saber, I invite you to look up the old 80's - 90's anime/manga/novel series called Slayers. It follows the magical adventures of a sorceress named Lina Inverse and her partner in crime and first-class swordsman, Gourry. The series involves plently of magic, magical swords (Two of them being a HUGE focus throughout the series), and the ongoing joke that wherever they go, Lina's bad rep makes her feared and unwelcomed. The main characters of Magiswords even look like them with the colors changed. I remember reading some interviews with Kyle where he was asked if Slayers was a reference for Magiswords, or if Magiswords was his own tribute to it to where he denied it, saying he had 'Never heard of that series in his life.": As someone who grew up with that series (and if he's an anime fan), I will continue to doubt him on that. In regards to the girl raked over the coals for shota/loli art, yes, this can be recommended therapy from a licensed therapist. It's not something that would work for everyone (For example, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum with my own childhood trauma and the very idea of trying to do anything with that makes me want to curl up and scream.) However, for others, it's a safe way to explore those complicated feelings and processing trauma in a situation where the creator has control this time as opposed to during the actual incident. They can also hit a metaphorical eject button if they start to wig themselves out and don't want to explore those traumatic feelings or viewpoints any longer. The point is to healthily explore their feelings and experiences through fiction. It's just them and pixel/figments of imagination they have control over. No real people are hurt. In her case, putting all of that behind a locked twitter so people who don't want to see and ESPECIALLY children cannot access it? Correctly done. The key difference is her exploring trauma through fiction where no one is traumatized or hurt because no one is real VS a guy who hurt real people and consumed content of real children. It's okay if that's a place you don't to venture into or explore. It's okay if it makes you wrinkle your nose and upsets you. But yes, tackling the trauma head on by engaging in material related in subject matter to what hurt you is absolutely a therapy technique and falls under exposure therapy if I'm not mistaken.
thank you for that last part especially. It always frustrates me so much when people feel repulsion towards a subject, but instead of checking a scholarly source to see what doctors actually say, they condemn it /because/ of their personal (understandable) discomfort. For example, noncon is one of the most common knks, primarily among women & mostly in the context of reading fiction. Psychs have studied it extensively, and it should be pretty obvious that the reason is not a "secret desire", it's 10000% about sense of control, layers of distance, & safety. Even people who've not gone through the trauma will sometimes explore it in fiction because it's very similar to the effects of horror; it adds a layer of distance & control to a subject that terrifies your sense of safety or autonomy. It helps with general anxiety that we get as creatures with forethought. But you're also right that it's not safe or effective or comfortable for everyone and that's ALSO reasonable!! I really wish people could hold multiple truths at once more often. "This subject matter repulses and upsest me" + "Sometimes this content DOES have a victim, for example when it depicts a real person" + "Often times this content is not doing that and is ok to exist, it really just needs to be warned about, hidden, and/or generally just avoidable" can all coexist
@@ZombiBunni_ honestly even if you see something and it gives you the ick is it that hard to just... leave? some of those things definitely give me the ick and i would be VERY happy to never see them again in my life, and the way some (not all, i need to specify) people talk about those subjects makes me even more icky, but like. i block tags. block accounts quietly if they don't tag work. i make sure to keep all that away from my little space. i roll my eyes at the discourse and leave. why is it that hard for some people?
@@faeb.9618. Yes. People need to realize when some things are not for them and just dissociate... For EVERYONE'S SAKE! Seriously... Limits exist to protect the vulnerable. Stop generalizing and mainstreaming nonsense that only can possibly serve a small, isolated group of people. Let them have their way, stuff, whatever... Just away from us... My block button has never let me down and it won't start now.
Remember that this creep ruined someone’s life over drawings, meanwhile owning actually illegal material. The dreaded 4 letter word that everyone is scared of is not the same as CSAM or CSEM.
@@salem5841 No it's not and it's disgusting that you think it is. A person's actual life is worth a million times more than fake drawings of fake entities that has hurt zero people. Stop that.
Actually depends where you live at whether loli/shota is considered CSEM My stance on the matter is, seeing as it’s not illegal where I live, what right do I have to say whether or not people should enjoy it. Is it weird? Most definitely. Does it compare to actual CSEM? Not in the slightest according to law.
@@jzpowell2108While you're not wrong about the law's word on the subject depending on country to country. The fact of the matter is l0lish0con depicts CHILDren, in CORNographic contexts. Therefore l0licon is functionally cp. If you have to find a loophole to access cp like 'tEh Ch1lDrEn DePiCtEd DoNt AcTuAlLy ExIsT, sO yOo CaNt ToUcH mEh PoLeIzI!!1!!', then you just want cp - and also think 'aCtUaLlY iT's 3pHeEbRoPhIlLyIa!' is a serious argument.
@@astickofbutter4247 when you can type without all the upper and lowercasing, comeback with your argument mate, I’m not going to give myself an aneurysm trying to read whatever argument you’re putting forth with all that nonsense
So weird to hear that this guy harassed an artist over Invader Zim R34 while having legit several terabytes of child abuse material and hurtcore on his hard drive. Reset the clocks I guess.
@@Jackass_Of_AII_Trades It's what they call it when distributing it, that's the "genre" of CSAM, where it involves sadistic physical abuse as the main theme, "hardcore hurting," I guess. Vile people.
Let's not forget that connecting Kyle's appearance with his actions could affect people with similar physical appearances. Months ago someone commented me that i looked like yandere dev and thought i was a creep which increased my anxiety and felt concerned about my appearance. It's necessary not to judge people based on their looks
Great comment that I wholeheartedly support and I'm so sorry that happened to you. You're not a creep until you do creepy things, so (I know how much easier said than done this is) try to not listen to some random idiots drawing conclusions with nothing more than your appearance as "evidence". Hope you're having a nice day regardless!
Saber I love you but I'm really gonna need people who are not in the psychology field to stop saying things like "I can't imagine a licensed [etc] supporting something like this" just because YOU don't like or understand it. I have been ridiculed for so long for the fictional content I indulge in when it has been suggested to me by both medical professionals and those I know personally studying in the field that it's probably the only thing that's been able to hold me together after all of my own personal trauma. It's my own coping mechanism that doesn't hurt anyone, if it helps me cope and heal then why should I stop, just because it makes other people uncomfortable? Fine, then block me and move on with your life, simple as that, if anything be happy you haven't been fucked up enough in the head that indulging in said content is what's needed to keep your head up.
It's such a waste that people would target victims for drawing this sort of content. It's the old saying of how fictional characters are treated like real people while real people are treated like fictional characters. It makes me so fucking mad man
@@Madjichen Exactly it's sooo bad And hey funny thing (not actually funny but y'know) shortly after this my boyfriend of 6 years broke up with me and said a bunch of things he hasn't been honest with me about and one of them was him saying he hates how much I'm into problematic content (even though I literally go out of my way to keep all of it away from him) and went off about how he doesn't understand how that can help someone and that he can't imagine a professional suggesting it when, yes, a professional DID recommend it
@@-TOBESTER- What the fuck???! I've noticed that people who publicly call out others who enjoy that fictional content are often trying to look for it which tells me more about them than the "degenerate" they so despise. I'm so sorry that happened. That fucking sucks.
@@kitsunegiblaze8022 I don't exactly want to call him a jerk over it, this is unfortunately a very common way that people view this, it's just uneducated if anything
Statistically speaking, if i recall, 1 in 10 people has some thoughts or urges so just look up the total number of each of those and divide it by ten. That's why.
The final part of this video is the most important: You would think - after SO MANY instances of criminal/pedo behavior happening at CN and Nick - they would have put in place SOME screening procedures to prevent the hiring of such individuals. But they just cannot be bothered, it seems.
It seems like many of the biggest creators get positions based on connections in the industry (i.e. word of mouth) rather than any sort of screened hiring process. Unfortunately, it's a systemic issue based on nepotism, allowing predators to avoid detection by simply knowing the right people to vouch for them.
I think that this is not a time or place to say "both sides were in the wrong." While yes you have the right to be disgusted with any art that comes from a deep uncomfortable part within people. Especially the traumatized. In this instance, Ang did everything they were supposed to. Kept it on a private alt account, didnt self promote, and for the most part was inoffensive. Kyle, on the other hand, took advantage of his position of power over others and actively engaged in real child abuse. Until it's revealed that Ang themselves is an actually child abuser, Kyle is 100% in the wrong through and through on all sides.
100% agree. If anything to even group the 2 together kinda destracts from a real monster. At points I thought he was still talking about drawn stuff because he kept comparing the two.
The fact that I've seen multiple people in the comments fail to understand that Kyle had photographs of real children being sexually tortured and not just drawing of fake children clearly shows this video's failing in emphasizing the clear difference between these two things. The reason Ange did not get arrested and Kyle did is because one is morally bad, but legal because it causes no direct harm to children, while the other is real pictures of real children being for real harmed. it's weird that CSEM was not defined well enough in the video that multiple people have had to ask in the comments if he was arrested for drawings and seriously downplays what Kyle did
I would argue against the part about "morally bad", as simply a difference of opinion. You can not like something and not want to see it, without telling others that they shouldn't like it or want to see it either, since calling it "morally bad", is no different than shaming those people who enjoy that content. It's fictional content, after all. It would be like looking at violence in video games and calling it "morally bad", just because it's bad in real life. But yeah, it's a shame that people don't understand the difference between legal and illegal content, when it comes to this sort of thing.
@@kryzethxIt is commonly seen as morally bad though. Although not NEARLY as bad as real CP, It’s a pretty normal human reaction to be put off by and want to stay away from people who draw / get off to the idea of children in sexual scenarios
@@mrbusinesss1 There's a lot of sexual content in the world that could be seen as "morally bad' by a lot of people, but again, it's fictional content. One could argue that it's a pretty normal human reaction to stay away from people who enjoy murder and violence in their media, because murder and violence in real life is "morally bad". The only reason we don't really see that sentiment anymore, is because violence in media has been normalized (at least in the US). Again, it's fine to not like something, and not want to associate with people who do like that thing, but people would go way too far with it, trying to cancel and de-platform others, cheering when the content they don't like is removed. That's when it crosses a line for me.
@@kryzethx I was both sides-ing on purpose. I agree with you. My point was more that regardless how you feel about lolisho (which is illegal in most english speaking countries from what I know), CSEM is objectively far far worse and painting them both merely as "bad" while failing to emphasize the extreme difference between them is negligent
@@gal-b9d That does not sound true at all. At least in the US, lolisho is absolutely not illegal, and the FBI has publicly complained about the amounts of people falsely reporting that content to them as wasting their time and resources. Not sure how it is in other countries, but the US should account for half of those "english speaking countries" that you mention (in terms of population) But yes, I do agree with your primary point.
@@Isebrand No... It isn't. One is a work of fiction, one is the real thing. I'm not saying loli/shota isn't screwed up, but they're still works of fiction, while Kyle's s-x crimes were not. One is at best a red flag, and one is an actual criminal act. People often play fast and loose with the fiction = reality argument whenever it's convenient. The same people that call for censoring anime will cheer for the ability to have s-x with a bear in Baldur's Gate 3. The same people that say games cause violence have nothing to say when it comes to horror movies like SAW.
@@flarestorm9417I agree that Kyle is by far the worst person in this scenario. But I find it disturbing how many people are defending ang as it’s impossible to have a story where everyone has poor character. You don’t always have to have a good guy and bad guy. Sometimes everyone is the bad guy. But I’m totally fine with ranking who is the baddest of the bad guys.
@@IsebrandLoli and shota are creepy but it's pretty wacko to imply it's anything on the level of actual CP. The characters in Loli and shota aren't real. They don't actually exist. The children in CP are very much real children.
It is 100% real that therapists would advise people to express whatever they want through cartoons and find community online. Ask any therapist or look up anything on art therapy and trauma.
Yes, but shota fanart shouldn't be one of those things, specially if you're not a little child. If you keep drawing those things as a teen or as an adult it isn't a good sign.
I agree with OP, but I also agree with @@kirausamaria5409. I understand the concept of art therapy and I can see a therapist encouraging them to explore those issues in a constructive way, but what bothers me is that they posted that art in a public place for other people to... enjoy? That complicates the situation quite a bit. At the least, it suggests that that was not JUST a therapeutic outlet.
It’s actually pretty common for therapists to be okay with this method. I know it can be kind of confusing and even disgusting at first, but it has something to do with having power over the fantasy, because the victim didn’t have it when they were assaulted. It doesn’t work for EVERY victim, in fact, it can make things worse for some, but for others, having a character go through the same thing they went through makes them feel less alone. It’s a complex issue for sure, but Ang wasn’t hurting anyone, and that was all that mattered.
When I was younger and still pretty freshly wounded by my CSEM trauma I imagined fictional characters going through it with me. It's silly, maybe, but it genuinely helped me through some of the hardest times of my life. 'Dark fiction' as a coping mechanism is pretty common in children and people with childhood trauma.
So what I'm getting is that this is yet another person who attacked someone for doing loli/shota stuff, and then ended up getting caught with actual CP. Look, I know a lot of people don't like loli stuff (myself included), but more often than not the people into that stuff are next to harmless, if a bit creepy. However, it has become a horrific trend that those who trying to denounce it tend to be virtue signaling because they are doing the real thing. No one (even those who like loli stuff) are saying that others have to like it too, but I think it should be obvious that looking at drawings, no matter the material, is far less offensive and disgusting than possessing actual CP, and it's ridiculous that those trying to shun the lesser of two evils here only seem to be doing it to try and deflect them doing the greater of the two.
Same thing with violence in videogames vs real life: one is inconsequential while the other involves actual people with hopes, dreams, and loved ones getting hurt. Sure, some people might flock to violent media as a "legal alternative", but you still can't persecute them on that basis alone.
@@somethingcraft3148 Oh boy! I love psychology, so let me explain. I'm assuming you are asking why he likes lolis, and while I can't speak for his desires, I can speak more generally about desires as a whole. A simple fact that people need to acknowledge is that we don't get to choose how we feel. You don't decide what makes you happy, and you don't decide what you enjoy, all you have control over is how you react to those feelings. It is a lot like violent video games. Some people enjoy it because of the technical skill the game demands, and would enjoy it just as much if it was colorful bricks instead of blood flying when they pull the trigger. Others enjoy it because of the visceral nature, seeing the carnage they are unleashing upon their enemies sates an urge to commit violence that they wouldn't otherwise have a safe outlet for. Yet another reason to enjoy it for violence's sake would be the same reason horror gets enjoyed, to feel the adrenaline pumping and the sense of danger in a controlled, safe environment. Then there are others who use it as an outlet to vent built up frustrations, they are angry at someone in particular and want to hurt them, but instead alleviate these negative emotions by letting them out on npcs or an online game where no one actually gets hurt. None of the above examples get to choose what they feel or why they enjoy what they do, all they can do is control how they react to these emotions. Same with lolicons. Some of them are seeking exposure therapy to soothe their own trauma from being victimized, replacing the negative emotions from that event with newer memories. Others have dangerous desires that they want a safe outlet for. They can't choose to just not feel those desires, but at least with purely fictional works they get a way to vent where no one gets hurt. There are some that just enjoy petite women, the character that gets frustrated because she needs her ID checked when buying alcohol even though she is in her 30s is appealing because of her comedic potential and the extreme gap between her behavior and her character design. Then there are others that just enjoy the art style, and there is no connection whatsoever in their mind to real life scenarios. They just like seeing the exaggeratedly cutesy characters like you would awe at a baby bunny being adorable. The most important aspect of psychology is remembering that every individual is different, so even if people enjoy the same thing, their reasons for doing so could be miles apart.
Usually it's the people who harp on about wanting to "protect the children" that tend to get outed as predators or for possessing CSEM. That or they end up associating with someone who falls into either category. And it ain't just with loli/shota stuff, since it happens often with people who try to pedojacket minorities as well. On the other hand, Western Twitter loli/shotacons pretty much just embody the "CunnyEpstein1488" stereotype to a T and just love to assume anyone who thinks their paraphilia is weird must be a predator themselves. The ones who aren't like that just keep to themselves and actually have way more self-awareness.
One of the scariest things to me is that I almost worked with Kyle recently. I was familiar with his work but not his controversies. I'm so glad these projects never went anywhere and he's getting the disgrace he deserves.
I’m a bit confused on how to really start talking about this but I’m the illustrator of the comic around 34:08 and I have to add a few factoids that saber missed, me and Kyle met around the tail end of 2021, we were mutes and worked together on a indie animation project from the group sickmutt, which was also slated to have been the group responsible for his new moobeard pilot (fortunately this never happened due to multiple factors) around the time sickmutt went dormant was when I started a relationship with my now ex partner, whom Kyle actually knew as well and was friends with for a while, they encouraged me to become closer friends with him and I found Kyle to be a lot nicer than I imagined him to be, he was kind and offered me a hand with my portfolio and gave me a now known false sense of trust, when me and my ex eventually broke up that’s when he started outwardly sexualizing me, not even two weeks after my breakup,, he asked for nude pictures of me, knowing how vulnerable I was at the time, and I gave him what he wanted because I thought he was just making me feel better, i thought he did it to help me feel like I was wanted again, but I was just a play thing for him, I had this relationship with him up until his arrest, he legitimately disappeared one day and the next month I read the news via twitter, I had no fucking clue, none of us did, at one point I remembered that he told me that “I don’t want to feel like I’m using my power to get something from you” knowing how hypocritical he really was and how he used that wording to trick me was icing on top of the shit cake, I felt humiliated and used that afternoon, and frankly that feeling still hasn’t disappeared, and it’ll take time to really heal, I say all this because I want people to know that Kyle had a multitude of victims, more than what’s been shown here and what we know now, there’s possibly dozens or even HUNDREDS of victims floating around, hell I didn’t even know I wasn’t the only one until after the news broke, I want everyone to really learn from this and realize that it really can be anyone, it could be you, you can be a victim at any moment and you won’t even know it, just as anyone you know could be a predator, look out for each other, and don’t worship creators no matter how wholesome they may seem.
As a mental health counselor I want to thank you for being willing to stand up and state this information. I’m sure it was incredibly difficult to go through all those moments. I hope that things get better for you soon.
Holy shit, I'm so sorry. It's never easy to go through something like this. Thank you for speaking up about this and I wish you a positive healing journey.
@@SuperDuperPaperDude Alright. Then go away. We don’t need you here in this conversation? You contributed nothing. What’s even the point of you writing that? You want an award? Attention? A cookie? Seriously annoyed at this point with how many people can be so illiterate and braindead on the internet that they can’t even read basic paragraphs anymore. Especially since the original commenter had difficulty sharing traumatic experiences. I usually would have never blown my top off at a simple comment like this. but too many times I’ve seen victims trying to speak up and share their experiences, only to have their voice invalidated with “I Ain’t reading all that.” And I guess today was the day. Fine. Then keep it to yourself then. Why even bother writing if you’re not going to pay attention?
I believe it has more to do with unchecked mental health issues that have to do with prior abuse/normalization of $exualizing of underage kids from isolated and anti-social people on social media. Mentally ill people who let themselves devolve into creeps encourage other creeps into thinking they’re not doing anything wrong.
That's why I restrain myself from calling myself someone's fan. Like, I really want to call myself Alex Hirsch fan, but I am afraid that someday it will turn out that he was a creep all this time.
"Person A drew nsfw on their private acc of invader Zim characters while person B harassed person A and was caught with 600 images of csem so they both suck and im not rooting for either" Awful take.
@moonsigil You call me that, yet you're defending the drawing it illegal material. I obviously think Kyle is way worse, but that doesn't mean we should let the other slide.
When you assume someone is a creep just because they're ugly, it only allows attractive people to slip by your perceptive defenses. The only way to stay safe is to assume everyone is a creep💯
@@NaimHrustanovic I wouldn’t say I agree with them, but there seems to be a noticeable connection. It’s only the people I’ve seen so adamantly speak out against lolisho that end up being predators themselvee, defending the predators, or giving them a safe space. Isn’t it concerning that there is an entire archive of that happening?
it's a tale as old as time, every time someone becomes loud and outspoken over hot button topics online like the anime stuff, shipping, whatever else stuff over fictional characters if you know you know, that almost always means they're projecting something terrible and are so often revealed to be the real creeps hurting real people
same with all those GQP members fearmongering about "protecting kids" from LGBTQ people and calling them "Groomers" when they pretty much ALWAYS turn out to be pedos themselves, just look at Matt Gaetz.
Imagine having so much Tumblr fandom brainrot that you unironically think not being okay with artwork that sexualizes children is “projecting”. You weirdos act like drawing cp is just some normal casual thing and anyone who calls you out for it is either “woke” or “projecting” as if shota/loli weirdos are not constantly getting exposed for this sort of behavior. I can assure you, if you went and told a normal person who doesn’t spend most of their time on the internet that you defended cp artwork, they would think you’re a freak. Not a “proshipper” or an “anti-anti”, a freak.
I may find lolisho disgusting but idk how randomly showing your coworkers someone’s private porn non consensually didn’t set off any alarms. And the idea that someone can get fired and blacklisted for private art they kept to themself scares me
it´s also weird too when you know other creators has done similar things on animated shows for years, the whole Disney rule34 vault thing is no joke. same with other animated shows, the only difference I can think of is that this is online compared to when it was physical. but then the question is how private does a profile/website has to be for it to be considered private.
@@GaetorCreation yeah idk :/ I have a nsfw patreon and while I don’t draw underage or other morally questionable stuff I’m still worried about not being able to get a job
28:42 Okay, for the record... sexualizing your trauma IS a valid coping mechanism, it just isn't the right one for everyone. It helps the victim gain more control over their abuse. I'm sorry but I find it dissmisive and sad that you would openly doubt the validity of this before doing your own research into it. I get not thinking it's a good coping tragedy, but publicly doubting the advice from a therapist when you know very little yourself about coping mechanisms sends a horrible message to your audience.
drawing art based around your trauma is something I was told to do when I was in art therapy. I saw the callout posts and it broke my heart that art she was drawing and posting on a private acc getting leaked leading to mass bullying and almost suicide.
i feel like theres a pretty clear difference between drawing vent art and sex of children characters having sex. like it just feels like your taking the piss.
It is!! Unfortunately everyone who has never been in that position most of the time won’t understand and just like what happened here, might be attacked for it. There is such a huge difference of real life and fictional art. But people either understand the difference and don’t do what Kyle did to her or they don’t and end up spamming to the CPS over fictional art and written fan fiction 🫠 (mass reporting has happened before and actively commonly happens over time gumming actual CP reports)
We need a documentary like Quiet on Set to expose such people in the world of animation because children work as voice actors too. I never really thought about it, but there should be a light on cartoon directors and producers too
Quiet on the Set has actually been condemned by many of the people that participated in it saying that the Discovery producers took what they said out of context(the producer of Double Dare Mark Summers said he was outright lied to) so no we don't need more exploitative garbage like that piece of crap excuse for a documentary.
I’m not going to lie, when I first saw the picture of the creator when the drama first broke out, i actually thought it was a shitpost because he just looks like exactly the type of person I’d see getting convicted for this crime on some Law Show.
Kyle's victims were real life people with thoughts and feelings who have to live with what happened to them. What Ang did was draw Rule 34 of fictional characters and went through some very messed up stuff because of him. No way you're saying they're both as bad as each other, that's just ridiculous. But since you find 'icky' drawings to be comparable to CSEM; care to explain that art of Hilda from Pokémon from a screenshot of your Twitter likes? Last time I checked, Hilda's age is 14.
@@TheDigitalApple Rebecca is an adult but that doesn't change the fact she is a loli, as Studio Trigger had literally stated and i quote "The loli stays" when asked to be redesigned or removed by Cd Project Red, remember Tatsumaki from OPM is also an adult yet still considered a loli
29:46 Therapists do actually recommend this type of coping, pretty often. It doesn’t work for everyone, and can make some people’s trauma and problems worse, but for many it does prove to be very therapeutic and allows victims to take control over their own trauma through entirely fictional scenarios
imo, there's a HUGE difference between drawing something for yourself that is meant to help you cope with something, and drawing shota then posting said shota online to twitter. It was a private twitter, sure, but people can still follow a private twitter, and if they never wanted anyone to see it, then they wouldn't have posted it in the first place. tbh the therapist was probably assuming they'd be drawing themself as a child with their abuser, because that would be the most reasonable one. I doubt the therapist knew they were straight up just drawing underage cartoon r34. Doesn't excuse kyle carrozza being an actual legitimate fucking pedophile, but any normal non-pedophile probably wouldn't want to associate with someone that drew that stuff, either
To the commenters here - its a private, locked account. As someone with first hand experience doing therapy and who knows a lot of people who are therapists and up to date with research, good therapists DO in fact encourage forming a community if you can find it, because coping with this shit by yourself is HARD. What someone does in their private time is their own business, and you really shouldnt care what your friend/acquaintance/coworker etc is into. It doesnt involve you in any way.
Coming from a CSA surviour myself, I know I might get hate for saying this but I 100% believe Ang when they say that their therapist encouraged them to engage in taboo art therapy, because my therapist did the same and I know several others who have the same story. Of course this approach doesn't work for all survivors, but for many it is cathartic for the exact same reason something like BDSM can help with trauma. It puts you in the traumatic scene you were in, except this time you're in control. I also wanna say I highly respect your use if the term CSEM instead of calling it CP. It is not porn and calling it so is such disrespect for the victims. I was also going to say that Mighty Magiswords was actually a rip off of the 90s anime Slayers, but I'm seeing comments already saying that.
One last thing, this situation with Kyle isn't even the first this kind of thing has happened in proship/antishipper discourse. Over the years there have been several instances where antishippers have been projecting their hate for taboo artwork, only for it to turn out that they're an actual pedo. This is just the first time it's happened with someone big in an industry.
@@GumSkyloard also one is real and one is fictional, and leveling the fictional one as the same actually waters down terms and convinces people that if you report it then you’ll be reporting a pedophile, when in actuality, it just clogs up the system and makes it harder to help real kids, as said by the people working to protect children because they were getting THOUSANDS of false reports that were just cartoons and led to it taking longer to find the actual ones who harmed kids and wasted so much resources.
@@LynnLieCosplay ... Huh. I guess... Sexually exploitative material about children, but used as a form of therapy, or release? That's definitely a... concept.
God not to sound super chronically online but the whole "my therapist told me it was okay and healthy to draw" to deal with SA IS actually real. Its a subsection of exposure therapy and works similarly to how kink therapy would work. I have my own personal fewlings aboyt whether or not that type of art should be shared and if so how visible to the public it should be but oh well. What IS insane about this case is the insane amount of projection on behalf of kyle here. At the end of the day Ange DID NOT commit any sort of crime and Kyle is an ACTUAL pdphile so. Yeah.
For me its like I am always against lolicon and shota content but hearing so many people say this was a legitimate coping strategy what I think is especially effed up is that he went ahead and shared it with other people and I’m 100% sure he shared it with people that were going to spread it like wildfire. Like I get not wanting someone that draws these sort of stuff working on your children’s show (which obviously is a moot point given the circumstances) but thats just a whole other level of evil
@@dragongirl2004You really need to take Saber's meat out of your mouth, it's embarrassing. He admitted that he has no idea about the subject, much less having knowledge on it. Yet he thinks that he is somehow the authority on what people can or cannot choose to cope with. If he didn't think so, he wouldn't have said that both sides are bad. As if drawings of non-existent fictional characters are in ANY way shape or form even remotely comparable to actual CSEM. I won't be surprised if Saber will join a certain list very soon.
Agreed. It's like comparing owning the SAW movies to owning cartel execution videos... Drawing sh*ta and l*li is controversial, the morals of it are somewhat debatable. CP is not debatable, it's so obviously wrong and the law follows.
There is absolutely no comparison between Ang’s art and real pictures of children being abused, and it’s so upsetting that Ang is continuing to be victim blamed when their life was ruined by that monster.
Nobody said there was other than Ang was created pornography based in part pf the abuse they suffered and share that abuse adjacent pornography with others.
I feel so bad for Grey DeLisle, the fact that she was working with him, she has three kids, and she was working with a closet pedo is fucked beyond belief. Not only does this taint the entire show, but it soils everyone else's performances in the series.
Anyone who does the blame by association despite there being no way they are linked Is just a sheep anyway Imagine saying Chris parnell or Keith David are tarnished for working on Rick and Morty Cause Justin Roland is a creep who knowingly texted minors Or tom Kenny is tarnished because he worked on Clarence and the original creator of Clarence had sexual harrassment issues?
Why are people talking about this Carrozza guy like he was some beloved figure? Ive never heard of this man or his show until recently when these crimes came to light.
Not a fan of how you misrepresented Ang and the concept of vent art/art therapy, and comparing Ang's drawings to actual material depicting children being harmed. This is victim-blaming Ang, and quite frankly I'm disappointed and disgusted that you and your team are devaluing the actual harm of CSEM by comparing it to drawings. Please do better research, especially on such a heavy and commonly misrepresented topic. Ang's drawings and what their therapist told them is an actual form of treatment. Other comments have gone more in-depth about it, but it's absurd to me that you didn't look into trauma art and art therapy and instead went "Oh I don't think that seems like treatment". This mentality is harmful to people who are either going through mental health treatment or want to seek it out. It shames them and regresses their recovery. Do better. I know you can.
Saber has earned my un-sub. Comparing cartoon drawings to CSEM sure is a goofy "take" that I expected out of some random Twitter Zombie, not from Saber, who I had thought could at least separate fiction from reality.
The more you hear more about Kyle, specifically going after another artist over some art, it's not all that surprising in hindsight that he was shady guy.
Art? Sounds like they were creating CP using those underage boy characters 😮 how can you defend drawing young boy characters being drawn in adult situations?
@@warriors6411you can find it disgusting, but at the end of the day it’s still fictional, and should, in now way be above anyone’s life in terms of importance
Hi Saber, I’m a person who has seen a lot of therapists and someone who copes with CSA trauma through dark fiction. This coping method is in fact healthy, and supported by psychologists and therapists! It puts the power into the hands of the survivor and gives us the ability to control the situation we went through. Ang is not a bad person and they did not deserve what happened to them.
Thank you for speaking up. I was hoping someone would mention this. There's a reason that it's okay and that's because it's fictional. It's a safe way to explore.
Did they tell you to send the images to people who planned on masturbate to it, and possibly describe to you why they did? Nobody is saying art cannot heal, but the context of fetishizing is what seems self defeating.
@@Oceaninhysteria I'm really sorry that happened to you, but I don't think you should equate something as serious as the grooming of a real person to dark fiction.
I'm sorry Saber, but Ang isn't anywhere close to being just as bad as Kyle. I get it: she drew material that is messed up. I don't condone it, but I get why a person who suffered SA might use taboo art as a coping mechanism. If they kept it on an account that was classified as adults only, kept it away from kids and people in the industry, and kept it to themselves, it's fine. They weren't hurting anyone. To claim they're just as bad as the guy who had ACTUAL CP OF ACTUAL CHILDREN, THOUGH? ARE YOU SERIOUS, SABER!? One person drew stuff that's gross, but ultimately harms no one. THE OTHER HAD ACTUAL MATERIAL OF REAL KIDS BEING ABUSED. Kyle ACTUALLY committed a crime. Ang just drew stuff. How is that even REMOTELY the same thing, man!? This is like claiming a guy who kills people in a video game is just as bad as an actual murderer. There's no correlation. You should know better.
I don't think Saber knows the difference because to show him throwing up to the definition of loli means he assumes it is immediately means lewd stuff. But that is not what that definition means. He just jumps to the worse part of shortacon and lolicon. Which shows he doesn't know the difference between real and fiction as well as what those words actually mean. Yes they include the lewd stuff but not always.
Justice for Ang by the way. He threw Ang under the bus and accused them of being a pedophile over invader zim art drawn on a LOCKED account, and he used Ang as a scapegoat to save his own skin
So my two bits; many therapist do suggest using a medium to help with trauma, for me my therapist suggested writing about it and changing all the outcomes in the story to help me work through it in my own way and give me control that I did not have during the situation, it has helped a lot of people work through their own trauma/issues. Also not liking something is perfectly fine, but when someone vehemently rallies against a specific thing it is best to dig into their closet because they clearly have something dark and dirty in there.
In general people trying to act like Chris Hansen or To Catch a Predator online and spout how they super hate the people already most hated by society at some point just turns into trying to run cover for those act or having other skeletons in your closet.
Yes!! As someone who’s also a CSA survivor, expressing your experiences through safe, fictional spaces is incredibly helpful with coping through trauma. As long as you aren’t exposing people to it and keeping it strictly as a form of healing/coping, then it is very helpful. Justice for Ang!
@@thefisherking2268 and Kyle’s inner circle definitely knew what he had going, and probably shared among themselves because they were defending him fiercely, probably scared he would cut a deal by ratting them out
Yes…but Ang was not doing anything to keep her side account private. And considering some of the stuff she posted I can see why it ended up getting her fired from working on a children’s cartoon. Kyle absolutely fucking sucks, don’t get me wrong. This situation has just been heavily lied about by all sides online.
I once worked with Kyle myself while being an animator for the Dtoons channel. At first, he seemed like a nice man and a very talented artist with a fun and wacky style. Even his cartoon series Mighty Magiswords was quite solid. But like many of my peers at Dtoons, I was shocked and appalled upon learning about his unsavory secret life, and we did not hesitate to cut all ties with him for our reputation's sake.
Hi, I’ve watched your videos for years, but I cannot believe that this video spends so many minutes conflating Invader Zim r34 with literal CSEM??? I watched the whole thing because I was like “surely, SURELY that’s not what’s happening” but it was, and now I’ve ended up financially supporting this insane take by watching it. how can you be like “everybody sucks here” when one person is a literal, actual, charged and convicted pdfile, and one person privately drew problematic pixels?? And how can you feel good about publicly dismissing and doubting their therapist’s recommendations, when you admit that you don’t know anything about it, and not do any research before you publish a 1 hr video to your hundreds of thousands of followers?? If I didn’t know anything about it beforehand, I would’ve agreed with you. How many people are going to watch this video and seek this person out, after ‘learning’, from you, that they’re a lying creep that “is basically just as bad“ as a literal pdfile?
I had a lot of respect for Kyle. I loved Frog Raccoon Strawberry, thought Moobeard had potential, and ADORED Mighty Magiswords. There really wasn't a cartoon like it before on CN...but that won't keep me from hating what he did and hoping fitting treatment is given to him. He deserves proper punishment.
@@tanner201x8 Hookay wanna go that route? Be rude while actively asking me a question? Here's my answer then: 1. Magiswords are a fun concept. 2. Super Teamwork Combos made for a lot of creative uses of Magiswords. 4. Riboflavin was a land with a ton of variety. 5. GREAT voice acting all around: Grey DeLisle, Phil LaMarr, Eric Bauza, Kate Micucci, Candi Milo, Tom Kenny, Weird Al, Judy Tenuta and the talented Mr. Lawrence. 6. The art style in and of itself is very inspired, taking cues from retro rubberhose and lighthearted Sword and Sorcery. 7. Fantasy that actually bothered to be fun and not just some hipster teen's weak-ass diet philosophy like what Adam Muto did to adventure time. 8. Characters that could be fairly endearing like Zombie Pumpkin Magisword or "Witch Way". 9. Good soundtrack. 10. Strong expressive animation. 11. Strong use of computer animation. 12. Grup. 13. Comedic timing. YES it's a fast-paced cartoon but straight up Rocky and Bullwinkle was a show with a million gags a minute that relied on the quantity of jokes in case some jokes were weaker. When the jokes hit they were snappy because of the quick pace. 14. It was NOT afraid to be goofy during a time where Steven Universe, Adventure Time (Muto's Tenure as Showrunner) and Gravity Falls really tried making even comedic cartoons serialized with heavy story. 15. Could utilize meta-humor and punchline subversion in a good way that felt akin to old Classic Cartoon Shorts like Looney Tunes and Tex Avery. That good enough?
Hi saberpark. You probably wont read this but ill say it anyways. I really enjoy your videos but as an artist who is a teenage SA survivor using art as a coping mechanism is an absolutely valid therapy technique. I find it pretty gross that you compared an actual abuser and literal CSEM holder who got arrested to someone drawing invader zim porn on a private account of all things, more so claiming out of nowhere that "you dont believe the therapist thing" as if noncon fiction as a common casual roleplay kink/coping mechanism isnt one of the most studied topics in psychology. It literally takes a single google search to debunk your claim. You may personally find it uncomfortable or "weird" but that gives you no right to project your own discomfort to cast "objective moral judgment" on others on what is a completely subjective opinion, much less when youre completely iliterate on the topic. Do better.
Saber's liked sexualized art of characters who are minors before, like not even long ago, so he's a hypocrite who's trying to deflect in order to appear morally better than he actually is. It's sad that it always turns out to be like this, but oh well. Guess it's best for you to look out for the eventual downfall video in like 2 to 3 years that digs out all of Saber's skeletons he's been keeping in his closet.
If you were that unsure if what Ang was doing was okayed why couldn't you contact a therapist? Instead of being judgemental of someone who was sexually assulted when you have no clue about how therapists would go about helping such victims
why would they feel it necessary to post the art online if it was a therapy exercise?? because there’s certainly people who enjoy art like that who haven’t been traumatized
@@foxsden12 Sharing that kind of art is theraupetical for both who posts it (they get to share their experiences) and the victims who see it (they get concrete proof their experiences are not unique and that there's room to heal). As for the people who "are not traumatized who enjoy it", what's the harm in that? Who's getting harmed by that?
@@wajmgirlwhat’s your issue with people doing whatever they can to heal from their trauma? who cares if they sexualize something that happened to them? as long as they’re not harming themself or someone else, it should be fine.
Just letting you know that yes, therapists do recommend writing/drawing taboo art as a coping mechanism. Some studies that support this include "The S*xual Fantasies of Childhood S*xual Abuse Survivors: A Rapid Review," "Expressive Writing and Health," "Expressive writing buffers against maladaptive rumination," " "The Light in the Shadows: Therapeutic Explorations of Fantasy and Fear," "The Nature of Women’s R*pe Fantasies: An Analysis of Prevalence, Frequency, and Contents," "Punishing S*xual Fantasy." Apologies for the censorship, I just think this is really important and I don't want my comment to be taken down.
@@esotericoutcast641 Assuming it's in space where children aren't allowed, and between people who are explicitly into that kind of thing, there isn't any problem with it. People who engage in art like this as an outlet can help each other by talking and exchanging ideas.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine You're ok with creating safe spaces for people who are into depictions of children engaging in sexual behavior? You don't think this helps facilitates an unhealthy mindset?
@@esotericoutcast641 Only if it involves people who are cognitively/psychologically impaired in such a way that they can't properly distinguish fiction from reality, or are unable to empathize with others and grasp the consequences of their actions, ergo people who are substantially incapable of actually functioning properly in society, and are already a danger to others, sexually or not. You're arguing that Grand Theft Auto facilitates crime.
I have heard that sometimes victims of child sexual abuse will be told to make shota/loli art to help with coping with their trauma. How I remember it being explained was that the victim’s trauma is specifically related to lack of control and manipulation, so making art of child characters as a willing or more knowledgeable (can’t think of a better word for it) participant is liberating to them. Kind of like vent art. I don’t know how public the art was, but it seemed like it was hidden for people who didn’t want to see it.
Believe it or not, but creating art - even if it is nsfw - is actually recommended by some therapists for people to cope with their trauma, particularly those effected by CSA. It works as a form of exposure therapy where the victim is allowed to work through and process what happened to them without having them relive their trauma. It doesn't work for everyone - and that's fine if you don't like it - but if it's done effectively, it's great at giving the person affected back the power over the situation they didn't have initially. Also, it is common for some abuse victims to go back to situations that resemble their trauma. That's why statistically abuse victims are more likely to be victims of other forms of abuse. Trauma manifests in weird ways. That entire section reeked of victim-blaming and that's not in any way comparable to Kyle, nor acceptable. You should've just sat this one out. Bye
@@cyprus9624 The topic is not even about loli, it's about a CSA survivor using Invader Zim as a gateway to cope, a cartoon. Even if it was what you mentioned, it's Schediaphilia, cartoons are schediaphilia. Doing anything in cartoons/fiction and keeping it in fiction isn't normalizing anything in real life.
@@cyprus9624 bro you are saying this on a video about a guy that was charged for having CSEM (which btw features REAL CHILDREN) on his computer and your going to say the drawings from a coping CSA vicitm who had her entire life ruined by someone that was hiding way worse stuff then she was, are the worst people? i think thats incredibly disrespectful to ang
@@ilikepointlessinternetargument provide one reliable source that they don’t. You can’t because you can’t find any reliable studies in either direction that violent games do or don’t affect crime. However, there are studies that show people who play violent games exhibit more aggressive behavior. It’s also intuitively obvious to anyone who isn’t a closeted pedo that media can imprint on people in negative ways that affect behavior. I think it’s worse in the case of loli because it’s easier to go out and groom vulnerable children than it is to go out and commit violent crimes.
This is a reminder not to dehumanize terrible people. Sometimes it's the awkward unattractive guy, and people finally get an excuse to rag on him, meanwhile your friend who has a similar beard feels ashamed and hurt that you call that guy ugly. Sometimes it's Nicole who is your 22 year old babysitter who is your best friend's niece, and how could she do something so awful? She is so pretty and nice and smart and talented and no one could have guessed she would touch your 5 year old son. Don't call p3dophiles monsters. They are humans. They don't all look like some weird nasty nerdy guy. When you think of people doing awful things as monsters, or sub-human, or whatever you want to say, it makes you suspect other real culprits less. Because you know them, because they're so nice, because they're family, your neighbor, your pastor, whatever. What, Jimbob nextdoor? No! Billy's English teacher? No! The daycare grandma down the street? No! How could it be?! Well, it's because you view people who do bad things as "evil irredeemable monsters" instead of "human being capable of anything."
@@SprinkledFox no, they're not. they're human beings. don't be so shocked when it's someone you know, someone you stood up for, because THEY couldn't possibly be a monster! my english teacher in freshman year highschool was 36 and getting bjs from 16 year olds. he was funny, he was cool, he was attractive, he was good at his job, he doubled as a football coach, people liked him, he had a lovely wife, and he had just had his first child, an infant daughter. then he lost his job, his marriage, his family, and his reputation, all because he decided to be disgusting. i had hugged that man on several occasions, laughed with him after class, and thought he was attractive. come to find out after that summer why he wasn't back. well, i was shocked. now i know not to be.
I actually agree with this, it's deadass not saying "oh don't call pedos sub human cause they deserve forgiveness" it's literally saying "people are capable of pedophilia, cry about it". This comment is straight up not trying to justify pedophilia it's trying to say "you can't lump people from one category into child predator land just cause someone happens to be unfavored by the gene pool". It's literally a "don't pretend that this person was a facade *YOU* fell for and stop projecting your insecurities and admit you got tricked". Does this sound harsh? Good.
Funny seeing Saberspark failing to see the difference between fictional content vs an actual child predator when he himself is a furry. Next time someone is outed as a zoophile should we say that Saberspark is just as bad as them?
I generally like your coverage but I gotta disagree with the weird way you cast doubt on shota or just any uncomfortable types of art even sexual art as being possible therapy. As a csa survivor myself it can absolutely be healthy and helpful to use art therapy in this way. Please don't give the impression that this isn't true
Anytime someone starts acting like they're morally superior to shota or lolicon for anything, I immediately am suspicious if they're holding skeletons in the closet because we've seen a very often seen pattern of them in fact, being into something much worse
Someone should be able to explore dark fiction / art regardless of trauma or not as long as its tagged properly (as Ang did). Cant believe Saber would claim that art therapy isnt valid... I hope he educates himself more and amends the video. This is very disappointing.
Something that I believe should be more emphasized is that there is an objective difference between lolicon/shotacon and real CP. That difference being one of them doesn't involve actual children. I don't like lolis, I don't like Shotas, I'm not into that stuff. However I would not consider somebody who is into that stuff a danger to society, at least not just for liking it, other factors would have to come into play before I make that judgement call. Kyle's employee made sure to never involve real children, Kyle explicitly went after real children. He is a scumbag through and through.
The other point is that loli isn't about "child" characters. It's a body type, you can have a character like Tatsumaki or Rebecca and they'd be lolis because of their design.
Every time people put the two in the same severity, it goes to show how people have NO IDEA how truly vile and horrible actual CSA is. As a victim, I can safely say people would sing a VERY different tune if they were to be exposed to it (like stumbling upon it accidentally, most likely), which is something I wouldn't wish upon anyone, not even my worst enemy. That stuff scars you for life.
You know what the worst part of it was. He was a blatant copyer/tracer. And he'd actively sick his audience on people. I know a friend who was in the industry who'd draw something, and Kyle would draw something suspiciously similar to it, and then sick his audience on them. He's destroyed SO MANY careers of up and coming animators who'd he'd actively defamed and destroyed, especially if they had differing opinions to him. And the worst part about it, the many high profile people who supported him and blindly followed his accusations, are going to just sweep all the damage they Enabled him to do under the rug, as if they weren't part of the destruction. All the people who were such huge fans of him who'd believe the various false accusations HE made and just taking him for his word, are just going to turn around and think they are going to not catch any flack for supporting him... and they are just going to go off scott free.
Still blows my mind that you legit tried to "both sides are equally wrong" this whole fiasco. An actual sicko who owned terabytes of actual illegal material that involved harming actual kids vs someone who drew Zim fucking Dib... And you say each is just as bad as the other and downplay the fact that someone had their career ruined by an actual predator over drawings of cartoon characters on a private account.
Respectfully, your description of hashing to find CSEM is neither accurate or clear. Hashes are computed with files, because we need a quick way to check if two files are the same. Making a hash is like inserting a computer file into a math problem and getting a solution that is unique to every file, even if the file looks similar. If your answer (hash) to matches an old one, it means the files are identical. This is how cloud accounts like Google Drive or Adobe Creative Cloud check massive amounts of data for CSEM without a human being looking at every file. What happened is some of Kyle's photos had hashes that match already known CSEM photos, and that is cause to investigate further.
The problem with those signature-based methods is that images and videos can also be 'slightly' (or significantly) altered on an imperceptible level to have a completely different hash sum than what they're altered from - it's the same problem with how polymorphic/metamorphic malware interacts with (static, signature-based) anti-malware protection. I figure for at least some of the more sophisticated PDFs, you still need a human + computer vision to identify what is CSAM and what isn't, and it certainly won't help against stuff that is (pre-)encrypted (then again, not much can).
@@lurkeythelurker9898 It's not catching all of them, but fact is that most are too stupid and clueless to think to obfuscate their contraband that way, which means that it does still help catch a lot, like Carozza.
@@lurkeythelurker9898 The important thing is that it's not going to find false positives either. Remember the meme of feeding images to PornOrNot and posting the results? Imagine if Google had some kind of bot like that in charge of deciding who does and doesn't deserve to get arrested for one of the top five most heinous crimes in existence.
@@stevethepocket Can't argue with that one, but still, leaving AI to do the dirty work (especially now) is probably not all that uncommon. If Google has already (or enacted in the future plans to) put forth a CV-enabled bot for detecting CSAM, it would not surprise me at all, especially as that kind of work done manually (at least I've heard) tends to invoke high turnover. Then again, such a bot would require insane amounts of training data, and you can bet the only ones with a "license" to hoard that data are limited to three-letter agencies.
Fun Fact, Dtoons has privated the collab he did with Kyle for the “Conroy Cat” series. If you look up Conroy Cat Spatula, you can find an archive and WIP of the animation
Context to the Animation for the unaware: DToons does a cartoon parody series where the creator’s 3 OCs based on various eras of cartoons mess around with items from across different media. This episode was based on the mechanical spatula SpongeBob gets in Help Wanted. As stated above, this was a Collab with Kyle
I hate that people have to bury their own work just because bad people were involved. This guy being a piece of shit doesn't make the work of others suddenly go away.
Justice for Ang. Saber, if you're uncomfortable with the topic or afraid that ppl are gonna judge you unless you make a hard stance against the BadWrongEvil Drawings then you rly just shouldn't have brought it up. Just focus on the victims as victims instead of the bs justifications made up to harass them.
Not for nothing but I don't think drawing zadr is comparable to having heaps of downloads of irl csem, that's just me tho tbh I think throwing shade at Ang is literally the issue. Predators like Kyle hide via shitting on artists who use art for cope or harm reduction. Ang has never hurt anyone with their art, not a single person, but they lost so much because of an ACTUAL CSEM collector. Almost every single person I've seen who is an artist be outed as a CSEM collector or groom'er has once spouted "anti" / censorship ideals and hate mongering towards "proshippers" / artists who are traumatized and use it to cope. And that's exactly how they get away with it. They have something to hide, and they act like the bigger person upfront to hide their more heinous actions. Its compensation, and it's really tiring to see people act like these 2 things are on the same level at all.
Not only is your overly disgusted reaction about lolisho preluding talking about Ang entirely unnecessary, but extremely disrespectful. You're free to have your opinions; nobody is here to try to change your mind or whatever (even if it's a little ironic coming from the resident furry). However, this just shows that your mindset is just the same as those who harassed Ang for drawing cartoon NSFW. Like Kyle. They had their entire life ruined over drawings, and Kyle exploited and abused REAL people. You are treating this situation no differently than those who act like what Ang did and what Kyle did are even remotely comparable. Please reconsider your priorities.
Of course he was outspoken against lolicon/shotacon. Ironically, in discourse surrounding it, lots of outspoken opponents have later been revealde to be actual pdf files. Not so much the people who actually enjoy that sort of fiction.
kyle is a bigger and worse pdf, but lmao if you get your rocks off to the idea of having *** with children you are still a pdf. Not as bad as one that engages in the real act but you are still a pdf. Children aint attractive, fictional or otherwise, unless theres something wrong with you. The amount of cope in this comment is hilarious, furthers the idea that people obsessed with childrens media are weird asf
@@morganicsmoothie964 Easy virtue signal points, and/or it makes them feel better about themselves. Like a wealthy person donating to child protection agencies only to be outed as a p-dop-ile themselves. I'm reminded of a case where a guy was ranting about s-xy figures of Pyra and Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2, making points about feminism and whatnot, only to be outed as a convicted child [toucher]. He was on the registry, and the account used his real name and face (likely for legal reasons), yet for some reason he thought no one would find that out.
Unironically I think you're being very disrespectful not just to Kyle's victims but disrespectful to other survivors of CSA that uses fiction as well to cope, a very safe and contained mental sandbox of which every fiction known to man stems from. If you're going to make a video sensationalizing this horrific situation then at the very least don't let your own personal subjective disgust over cartoon pornography poison your attempt at conveying it by painting fiction as a whole as some Big Bad here. You and other people who frame fiction in such an absurd way need to understand that cartoon and fictive porn is on an entirely different dimension than that of real abuse that CSA survivors go through. This kind of stigmatization being further perpetuated never fail to make survivors feel further isolated and shunned for having been "tainted" by such abuse, not even being given the grace to process it safely in safe and endorsed ways that matters to them simply because other people find it gross and distasteful. Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable. This is beyond disgraceful of you and a massive, irresponsible blunder on your end. Try to be better next time, and consider either publicly approaching these subject matters with more tact or don't do it at all. This is a personal gripe of mine, but I do not appreciate the careless thumbnail and title of this video being so inherently clickbaity. It feels as though you are making a complete mockery of his victims and other abuse survivors as a whole.
Exactly my thoughts. This “Both sides are wrong,” narrative from him is fucked up. One was a victim and drew FICTIONAL content and the other actually had CSEM on him. There is no comparison. If Saber doesn’t like lol/shot fine, but it is insulting to all the victims of actual predators that they’re doing something wrong coping. This video is sick.
>victim bames Ang. >shrugs off the idea of victims using problematic fiction to cope with trauma. >comparing Invader Zim porn to possessing CSAM and saying “these are equally bad”. Saberspark fell off bad, like this shit is SCUMMY scummy
@SleepySyd the information has been online for a while, so if he can do research on kyle and the situation, why cant he educate himself on that at the same time without acting in disgust torwards what he doesnt know? Even when people have told him multiple times on here and other platforms he still hasnt and it's been all over Twitter and actual psychology research has proven it. He needs to do better, and we need to stop being ok with victim blaming when we are uncomfortable with things we can not fully grasp. It's how a lot of misinformation spread and prejudice builds.
Saberspark's comments here have made me lose all respect for him. It's very unlikely he's ever getting it back. He shouldn't have thrown the victim under the bus.
therapist recommend drawing their trauma to cope, the account was private and not connected to the original account. I don´t get why that was a problem sure it´s disturbing and I think it´s weird, then I remember how I also cope with different forms of art that can be disturbing to others as well. and the fact Ang was blacklisted BECAUSE of Kyle is really sad, apparently they are couch surfing because they lost any form of medica coverage. one thing I will say is that I don´t believe people did not know he was a creep, you don´t have public talks about how someone is a creep and then never knowing it happened. edit: hey Saber why are there tweets of you being friends with an alleged groomer????
No, I'm sorry but this is just not right It being private or public is not the issue, the issue is someone drawing children in sexualized positions being involved with children's entertainment I do not care that it's drawn, and based solely on the knowledge of them drawing loli/shota/whatever, it sounds like Angela could've been a predator themselves Like if you draw children fucking, you just shouldn't work in anything related to children, and there is ZERO chance a therapist recommended they draw sexualized children and then POST IT ONLINE, like especially ONLINE!! There was no need to post it online if this was a legitimate form of therapy??!! Like if a therapist recommends you write letters to calm yourself down, you don't fucking send the letter out or post it anywhere
What he did to Ang Vonda and his weaponization of the 'anti' and q movements to assist in that is not only wrong, he should be punished and so should everyone who sided with him.
I'm glad other people are pointing out that you were absolutely wrong in speculating that another person's artwork being their therapeutic outlet because you didn't research it. To try to make the victim out as something "icky" is just terrible in itself. Sure, YOU don't understand why the person's artwork may be therapeutic (ignoring the fact you side-eyed it as if that was some kind of excuse when it IS in fact a method for exposure therapy), but "both sides-ing it" was a terrible approach when Kyle was found to have 600 images involving REAL children, something totally different from Ang's own private artwork revolving fictional characters.
Phenomenal video on this harsh topic, had no idea it went this deep but was very informed. Also 49:33 That entire discussion about putting people on Pedestals was nothing but facts & brought up many very valid points. I understand why it happens but its not fair to certain people cause we're all just human. My friends and I were talking about Keanu Reeves & how he is universally beloved but also put on such a High pedestal that if he ever hypothetically has a bad day & loses his temper many people would be like "Oh no I guess he wasnt as perfect as we thought" No one is perfect, & perfection means there is no room for growth & improvement, you just hit a ceiling you're perpetually stuck at. But overall really enjoyed this video.
Very disappointed in you. Angela was a victim of Kyle, her drawing loli or whatever anime bullshit you terminally online weirdos decided is "morally incorrect" doesn't make her a bad person and certaintly doesn't make her any less of a victim.
It's funny how he only answers who is agreeing with him, but not the actual victims recommending texts and books by psychologists that prove his statement is wrong and bullshit
Look I'm no fan of rule 34 and all but blacklisting someone just for letting out some steam in the form of their own art therapy because they are a SA survivor while this dude had actual CP is something and I can't even find the words the say.
I hate that lollicon has become public parlance nowadays; because now whenever someone gets called out online for being a p*do I have to thing "Okay are they an actual p*do or do they just like cartoons that make you uncomfortable?" And this is the only genre of fiction where no one seems to be able to understand that difference. Like if someone is a fan of dexter or hannibal no one is giving them the side eye like they're going to take a meat cleaver to the next passerby.
It's sad that we're getting to a point where it'll probably be easier to convince people by having them come across the real thing than to sit down and have a civil discussion about the difference between fiction and reality. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, especially as a victim, but people are stubborn.
@@LucasRCD Yeah I've seen a lot of really bad takes about the whole thing too. The pro vs anti ship bs doesn't help either. I don't know how that even got to be a thing since as far as I've been able to tell "pro ship" is actually more like "neutral ship". Like you're not actively supporting anything you just don't obsess over what other people do with fictional characters? What a mess.
Let's be honest with ourselves chat...the whole "lolicon is bad" crowd that have gotten exposed for owning legitimate CSAM has happened too many times for it to be a coincidence anymore. I mean, when you break it down...this whole moral panic is really just weird rule 34 art. It has always existed and it will always exist with Misty from Pokemon practically being the poster girl for r34. That is not to say however that it isn't weird. It most definitely is weird and morally questionable. (And yes i myself included find the art gross.) But lets be real for a second. Would you really be willing to have an artists or someone looking at rule 34 put in the same level of it being criminal activity for JUST drawings? despite the fact Chris Hansen himself has said that while the art is tasteless, it does nothing for his work ethic meaning that waffling about it is useless compared to oh i don't know...REAL exploitation of real children????? I don't know fellas. Call it a hunch but me thinks one is just weird while the other is legitimately a problem that should be reported to the police.
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This was a tough topic to discuss but it's a story worth covering especially in the effort of raising public awareness. I've made a $1,000 donation to Darkness to Light, a wonderful charity that fights against CSEM. If you'd like, please consider donating! d2l.coalitionmanager.org/donormanager/donation/create
I was not expecting that outcome.
Also please do Review and Let's Watch on Eleanor's Secret [2009]
skibidi toilet
Pls do what ruined the loud house next pls
Hannah Montana!
Delete your Wish video.
> Be *Mighty Magiswords* fans
> Fans see *Mighty Magiswords* trending on twitter
> "Oh my God Is trending!? Are we finally getting a seasons 3!!? Lets gooooooooo-" click trending
> "-oooh... God."
God that must’ve been depressing
That show has fans?
i feel that.
@@tanner201x8I mean, I really liked the show when it was airing
I loved the humor, the art style, the characters and pretty much still do
But this is an issue of separating creator from creation
Reminds me of when the voice actress of Astolfo found out that the character was trending due to Monster Energy.
Fun fact: the characters from magiswords are not inspired by lupin. They are a blatant ripoff of Lina and Goury from Slayers. But you weren't wrong in them being anime "inspired"
I agree
Even their personalities kinda match. Atleast from what I remember 😅 been 20something years since I watched slayers
I never heard of Mighty Magiswords before this but I just KNEW he used the Slayers as templates the second I saw the designs.
I always thought so too.
I was wondering if anyone else picked up on the Slayers similarities!
Only 3 years probation ? There are people in prison for drug possession who have been in longer
Well, you see, apparently being a danger to society is not something the justice system is overly concerned with
Smoking the weed is obviously more dangrous than a predator working in kids media
He should get 5 for those sideburns alone tbh
That war on drugs really did wonders, didn't it?
10 years in the joint for a joint
It’s really disgusting when people say that he looks like a pedo. Pedos don’t look like anything. They can look like regular people. They can seem like really chill people, but in reality, they’re monsters. A person who man think look like a monster could be the kindest person in the world.
pretty privilege is insane. think of britney manson
Nah some people are just more obvious just by looking at them. You can't tell me you wouldn't look at this dude and at least think he has a few screws loose. He clearly has a completely out of control eating disorder, dresses strangely, acts odd, and has mutton chops, dude. Not all degenerates have to be obvious, but people have a tendency to express themselves, and some tend to be more expressive than others.
Human brains had to evolve to form stereotypes about people's appearance because we needed to know in seconds that the tribe with curly hair and differently shaped eyes gives food and helps in fights while the tribe of men who have sharpened teeth and walk funny like to take captives and messily turn them into eunuch slaves with a sharp rock.
I thought he looks pretty cute. A litlle nerdy and unkempt, but cute
It's like saying Ted Bundy looked like a serial killer
“What ruined Kyle Corrozza?”
Probably the 600 images and 12 videos worth of child porn
damn, these reply bots are working overtime
Just report them.
Mighty Magiswords, this is the last cartoon network's show for me when I'm entering high school.
Found out the short notification news, the creator of mighty magiswords is part of the ovhoe list this month, before Kris Tyson Mr Beast's friend on the clutches.
(Not Like Us always expose anyone like an virus OMG)
I posted a preview of ragebait bots getting destroyed on my page ....,.,.,.,.,.,.,. (full in desc)
@AvaTysonWonYou're a pathetic troll & have no life
He thought he was the new Weird Al Yankovic, when really he's the new Gary Glitter.
Random guy: "Who's Gary Glitter?"
Me: "You wouldn't get it"
Maybe even the new Jimmy Saville
Thanks for making a reference us olds will understand.
@@toainsullyI’m that random guy
Who’s Gary
(Don’t tell me that I don’t wanna know cuz I do)
@@V1SIT0R64he was a famous glam rockstar who liked his girls young ,really young
If you seem joker his most famous song is the one that plays when joker dances down the stairs
I remember following Kyle back in the days when he was still just posting webcomics and such. I thought he was a pretty cool dude. Had a really nice style to his art. I was really glad he finally got his big breakthrough with his own show.
And then when I heard there was a scandal involving him, I thought "Aww man, not him too, he seemed like a cool guy. What did he do, say something extremely problematic out loud or behave like an asshole?"
And *then* I found out what the scandal was about, and realized he was very much NOT a cool guy.
I believe that Kyle is innocent, till proven guilty, remember the allegations made against Kwite and how the internet called him very bad names like "PDF" but he ended up being innocent all along?
@@SpaceXfan2005 While I agree to some extent on the whole innocence till proven guilty thing, this doesn’t seem to be the case chief. 🫤
@@SpaceXfan2005they literally found evidence on this computer.
I'm sorry for you dude, that probably sucks a lot 😞
@@RyuFalchionX what if the PC was used?, what if the seller was a shady man?, Think!
I actually interacted with this guy back during my uni days. I needed to do an interview with people in the field I wanted to explore (ie. animators/showrunners) so I reached out. And unfortunately (or fortunately now), because of timezones, i slept through my alarm so I never got to interview him. When I asked if we could still do it, he said he had dinner and couldnt. I felt so embarrassed. Absolute nightmare of a situation.
Neither of us interacted again. I wanted to bury that whole 'i fumbled interacting with a showrunner' situation.
Now I can safely say, I dont feel a lick of embarrassment or shame.
What an absolutely disgusting individual.
Don't forget that they ruined a coworker's life, slandered them & made it so they couldnt get life saving treatment ALL because they drew NSFW art on a *private* Twitter account. Meanwhile Kyle was a legitimate criminal with actual "cheese pizza"
YES I was hoping someone would comment this!!!!
Oh I certainly do not forget...
And that Kyle's cohorts in the harassment to this day think someone drawing invader Zim r34 is JUST AS BAD as Kyle having CSEM🙃
It will forever anger me to no end that this was allowed to happen. Saying he was “traumatized” by invader zim porn yet went on to help fund the traumatization of REAL LIVING BREATHING CHILDREN…… this happens literally every single time, I’m so tired of it.
That's practically murder
We were developing an adaptation of Frog Raccoon Strawberry, one of Kyle's webcomics.
When word got out about his arrest, we have been in severe shock and disbelief.
Many of us had looked up to Kyle until that very day when we learned the truth.
We cancelled Frog Racoon Strawberry and moved on to other projects without Kyle's involvement.
what if by chance he got an old used gaming PC from a shady guy, and Kyle was set up due to the previous owner having that stuff on, think!
@@SpaceXfan2005 Why didn't he delete the SIX HUNDRED IMAGES then
@@dunno821 they may have been deleted, deleted photos are not truly deleted, as a drilling software can recover them
That's quite depressing to hear. Having to hear about your favored figure show it's truest colors from within is total betrayal. Sometimes, the dark truth can lead people to confusion and disgust. It feels like so many well known people have already gotten exposed each month this year and to think said person was trusted by many.
@@SpaceXfan2005 Dude, stop. You're not making yourself look any better with this. Trust me, I used to defend him for smaller things, and it doesn't lead to people being on your side.
My mum would always tell me to "clean at my doormat first" because once you're a clean person and accuse/argue with someone, they won't have anything to backfire
Damn, I guess according to you, James Bond and Brock Turner should just look the other way on any grape and sa they witness then.
Sure, they'd effectively be an enabler to a shrex crime in that situation - but at least they're not a hypocrite, riiiiiiiiiiiiiight?
@@astickofbutter4247 not what I meant
@@vaitti8096Ya it is what you meant. Both Bond and Turner clearly don't have clean doormats (to put it VERY mildly), therefore they should just let any bad thing they witness just happen. Sorry your logic just leads to you to some nasty grape apologia. Sounds like a you problem, really.
You realize the Church of Scientology constantly digs up dirt on anyone who criticizes them BECAUSE they know people like you exist, right?
Maybe... maybe people shouldn't have to be complete saints (clean doormats, if you will) in order to say and do based things - and therefore your mum's advice should be chucked in a dumpster?
Ngl this is not the right proverb for this situation
@@beans1325 I didn't really mean it as for the whole situation going on, just the thing where they would call out other people for having inappropriate things or be into inappropriate stuff while they themselves were apart of such thing as well. It just reminded me of that
Ang took the right steps to cope with her trauma by keeping it behind a private account not for the eyes of minors or other survivors who might be triggered by the content. Art therapy is a common suggestion for those with childhood trauma, or trauma in general. My therapist gave me the same advice in middle school and it helped immensely. It's okay to be disturbed or disgusted even, it's not for you, it's for them.
Yet kyle decided to ruined her life while actually doing illegal stuff sad really
"art should comfort the disturbed, and disturb the comfortable"
Why can’t creators learn to NOT meddle with minors?
what percent of creators do you think do this?
Egocentric creeps don't think they'll be caught, and either don't care that they're causing harm, or they love doing it. "It's not a crime if you don't get caught" is a usually a joke, but some people legitimately think that.
Its not just creators, it's all over unfortunately, although entertainment and politicians seem to have a higher rate of this degeneracy.
@@MorbiusBlueBallsanything above 0% is too much, but my guess is gonna be pretty low, like %0.5 percent probably.
It's a very complicated question to answer
I've lost all respect for him. He is dead to us. He has shamed the entire animation industry. I am no longer a fan of his show. He's no better than John K.
I swear whenever I think of these guys all it does is make me mad!
Is that normal?
No, he's just AS WORSE as John K
Well John K did animation for Beanie and Cecil, so they probably crossed paths
@@princkleminckle1159 Kyle is essentially John without any of the success of a studio or being able to get away with it for decades. Both are disturbed af and deserve to be black listed.
No man hes just a more hilarious version of john k
It’s just so weird having talked with Kyle and created stuff with him. It’s just so hollow feeling now. I’ve had to deal with my sister being a victim of CP and SA. It’s just- disgusting
Like… 3 months before the arrest I think. A friend of mine and I are making an abridged series of the legend of Zelda cartoon called ‘WAMP’ (Well Abridge Me Princess) and he helped write the theme song and sung it too. Voiced one of the fan favorite characters as well. We’re still going to work on our series, we’re just replacing everything kyle touched
@@easysnakeoven9052 Good luck
You're not to blame. For all his faults, Kyle's a person too; and most people aren't predatory creeps. You probably had no reason to suspect him.
I'm still trying to process that police had to parse through all the photos on his hard drive, knowing that there were photos of me & some of my mutuals on it. I feel disgusted. I'm not a victim because he paid for it legally and we're adults, but knowing what our content was lumped up with feels.. violating.
Like I've literally met his wife, this is insane
@@ThorneChanOfficial christ I didn’t even think of that- god. Hi ‘The Cops’ don’t mind me! I’m almost 21! Still a kid to some people. I have had a nightmare where an image of my own sister was in the 600 car pile up of CP. Recently talked to her about the whole thing and she said I’m handling it as best as I can. We can’t do anything but stare in disgust and awe at the horrific actions
He makes me so mad, HE LITERALLY ruined Ang's life because HE WAS PROJECTING.
Deserved lol drawing loli stuff is disgusting they wanna sexualize kids. Who cares if they're fake they're sexualizing kids and that's undeniable.
@@solairedude7119Who's an edgy boy? Yes you are. Yes you are. You made such an edgy statement.
This whole comment was mocking you btws.
@@Koolkitty_9 Ang ruined Ang's life with Ang's actions! We all know the abused can become abusers! Trying to cowardlyact yourself doesn't make you a saint!
@@Marthaz-jl7tv imagine defending kyle
@@seliamila1005 At no point am I "defending Kyle". That's YOUR imagination.
The deviant who collects this type of images is SHOWING YOU WHO THEY ARE. Don't assume "art means just fiction" because that's what they want! The "silliness" of cartoon characters gives them PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY!
The Ancient Greeks did this stuff! AND carved it onto drinking vessels AND painted it onto vases! Art can very well be documentation of actual acts. Creeps have been around a long time and the camera is a recent invention!
It gets worse when you realize that one of cosmodore's victim is a huge fan of mighty magiswords.
Thats just unlucky
How is that worse? That's just a pure coincidence 😂
Ouch. It reminds me of seeing comments where people go over their childhood YTubers and inspirations, just to see how many of them became monsters.
@@sammorin254Because that same person created a show they’re a fan of.
ik! thats the first thing i thought. :(
Honestly, the second worst part of ALL of this for me is that unfortunately, Kyle just hits that perfect appearance that people would look at him offhandedly and say he's a creep who probably likes kids. So that's what people are saying, going 'He LOOKS like he'd like that' and such.
And that's just pushing more of that pseudo-criminology 'You can tell just by looking' bullshit that's the source of a lot of discrimination over things someone can't change. I literally know a dude who by such terms would probably be considered a conman or a sleeze who hits on women in bars. But he's legitimately one of the hardest working and friendliest people I know, one of my father's best friends, and has a very loving relationship with his wife and daughter.
Obviously the worst part of all of this is literally everything Kyle was involved in.
absolutely. this also makes it easier for people to pray on others because looking a certain way will help them get away with things. can we leave this back in the victorian era with the racist/sexist/queerphobic/ableist people who made up the science? it’s literally incel science.
Thank you so much for saying this.
Exactly this. Like if you’re a fat not conventionally attractive man I guess you must be a pedo 🙄 this shit is so harmful. It also undermines the truth that predators can look like ANYONE, a guy that looks like a supermodel could be just as much of a creep but no one would be saying “oh I could tell because he looks like THAT.” The idea that the way you look is indicative of your character or morals is a very very old and insidious way of thinking
Ok but look at him
@donovanlocust1106 No one normal has mutton chops.
Kyle really tried to go "Loli is evil" and then went "but REAL kids..."
Yeah that so messed up. This isn't the first time someone said they hate loli and it turns out they have images the "real thing" Happens to so many people. Some tell tale signs
Thoughts on hetalia
Kyle: "look, I dislike child abuse as much as the next guy. P-dophilia? Booo, don't like it. ...But-"
@@ImperialAstraOfficiallolisho is not at all comparable to actual CSEM
@@MegabombGamer-rb5khIt depicts kids
in cornographic situations.
Lolisho is CP. Take your 'bUt No ReAl ChIlDrEn' loophole, and shove it. All you'd be doing there is showing you're no different from the dips who go 'aCtUaLlY iT's EpHeBoPhIlIa!'
I just want to say to everyone but especially you Saber, the coworker recently victimized by Kyle who was making fictional art on their private account was doing so as a coping mechanism for their own real life trauma, trauma that Kyle also added to. According to modern science, such works of art hold no water to a person’s own morality and might in fact be a means to healthily cope with past trauma. **Telling people they are horrible just because they made fictional content when they didn’t harm any real people HARMS and BLAMES REAL VICTIMS.**
@@aroseydragon2873 FALSE! What "science"? Psychology is a pseudoscience much like cosmetology with crazy trends. This "vent art" excuse is just PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY, which the groomer will always have! And a lot of these psychologists are worse than the patients! They got into the field to figure themselves out!
The cartoons often depict a record of what the perpetrator really did to victims and can also be used to groom future victims. Kids are raised on cartoons so they don't see the red flag!
@@aroseydragon2873 They ALWAYS CRY COPING MECHANISM! Pete Townsend from The Who did the same when they found his pic collection!
600 images? Jeez. That was so many. This is definitely a collection he'd been working on for a LONG time.
FBI OPEN UP!!! 🗣🗣🗣🗣👮♂️👮♂️👮♂️
That's actually unusually low for such a high profile target. A lot of times when some dude gets caught like this it's terabytes upon terabytes. I'm always reminded of that skit from Game Grumps or Supermega or something during their Sonic Adventure 2 lp about the Indian Jones style gauntlet protecting the 5 petabytes of ceepee.
not really, those people usually have terabytes of the stuff. 612 files is quite tame
if I recall correctly, in cases like this every frame of a video is charged as a separate image, so they can add up fast
Here’s a thing I don’t understand about pedophiles why do they download cp onto there computer or create evidence against themselves are they that horny they need to download it
Remember that Robot Chicken sketch where Dilbert kills his own creator?
I think about that a lot these days.
This is more hilarious considering what the Dilbert creator did to himself
I can just imagine dilbert seeing his new black co-worker trying to identify as white, then just sighing, pulling out a ladder to the real world, and ascending with a rifle...
Well REN and Stimpy are still popular despite their creator. Love the characters, not the creators
@rrsaga idk if mighty magiswords was ever "popular" to the same extent...
@@collaterale1what he do
Throwing in my two cents here:
First off, I always side-eyed this show before anything about the creator came out. You mentioned Lupin the Third being the inspiration for the characters in Magiswords, but Saber, I invite you to look up the old 80's - 90's anime/manga/novel series called Slayers. It follows the magical adventures of a sorceress named Lina Inverse and her partner in crime and first-class swordsman, Gourry. The series involves plently of magic, magical swords (Two of them being a HUGE focus throughout the series), and the ongoing joke that wherever they go, Lina's bad rep makes her feared and unwelcomed. The main characters of Magiswords even look like them with the colors changed. I remember reading some interviews with Kyle where he was asked if Slayers was a reference for Magiswords, or if Magiswords was his own tribute to it to where he denied it, saying he had 'Never heard of that series in his life.": As someone who grew up with that series (and if he's an anime fan), I will continue to doubt him on that.
In regards to the girl raked over the coals for shota/loli art, yes, this can be recommended therapy from a licensed therapist. It's not something that would work for everyone (For example, I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum with my own childhood trauma and the very idea of trying to do anything with that makes me want to curl up and scream.) However, for others, it's a safe way to explore those complicated feelings and processing trauma in a situation where the creator has control this time as opposed to during the actual incident. They can also hit a metaphorical eject button if they start to wig themselves out and don't want to explore those traumatic feelings or viewpoints any longer. The point is to healthily explore their feelings and experiences through fiction. It's just them and pixel/figments of imagination they have control over. No real people are hurt. In her case, putting all of that behind a locked twitter so people who don't want to see and ESPECIALLY children cannot access it? Correctly done.
The key difference is her exploring trauma through fiction where no one is traumatized or hurt because no one is real VS a guy who hurt real people and consumed content of real children. It's okay if that's a place you don't to venture into or explore. It's okay if it makes you wrinkle your nose and upsets you. But yes, tackling the trauma head on by engaging in material related in subject matter to what hurt you is absolutely a therapy technique and falls under exposure therapy if I'm not mistaken.
Yeah, that guy is full of it. These characters are such obvious Slayers fan OC redesigns.
"THIS IS MY ORIGINAL CHARACTER, BLINA BLINVERSE."
thank you for that last part especially. It always frustrates me so much when people feel repulsion towards a subject, but instead of checking a scholarly source to see what doctors actually say, they condemn it /because/ of their personal (understandable) discomfort. For example, noncon is one of the most common knks, primarily among women & mostly in the context of reading fiction. Psychs have studied it extensively, and it should be pretty obvious that the reason is not a "secret desire", it's 10000% about sense of control, layers of distance, & safety. Even people who've not gone through the trauma will sometimes explore it in fiction because it's very similar to the effects of horror; it adds a layer of distance & control to a subject that terrifies your sense of safety or autonomy. It helps with general anxiety that we get as creatures with forethought.
But you're also right that it's not safe or effective or comfortable for everyone and that's ALSO reasonable!! I really wish people could hold multiple truths at once more often. "This subject matter repulses and upsest me" + "Sometimes this content DOES have a victim, for example when it depicts a real person" + "Often times this content is not doing that and is ok to exist, it really just needs to be warned about, hidden, and/or generally just avoidable" can all coexist
@nicb7857 the ugliest laugh just left my mouth reading Blina, holy shit.
@@ZombiBunni_ honestly even if you see something and it gives you the ick is it that hard to just... leave? some of those things definitely give me the ick and i would be VERY happy to never see them again in my life, and the way some (not all, i need to specify) people talk about those subjects makes me even more icky, but like. i block tags. block accounts quietly if they don't tag work. i make sure to keep all that away from my little space. i roll my eyes at the discourse and leave. why is it that hard for some people?
@@faeb.9618. Yes. People need to realize when some things are not for them and just dissociate... For EVERYONE'S SAKE! Seriously... Limits exist to protect the vulnerable. Stop generalizing and mainstreaming nonsense that only can possibly serve a small, isolated group of people. Let them have their way, stuff, whatever... Just away from us... My block button has never let me down and it won't start now.
Remember that this creep ruined someone’s life over drawings, meanwhile owning actually illegal material. The dreaded 4 letter word that everyone is scared of is not the same as CSAM or CSEM.
yes it is ♥️
@@salem5841 No it's not and it's disgusting that you think it is. A person's actual life is worth a million times more than fake drawings of fake entities that has hurt zero people. Stop that.
Actually depends where you live at whether loli/shota is considered CSEM
My stance on the matter is, seeing as it’s not illegal where I live, what right do I have to say whether or not people should enjoy it. Is it weird? Most definitely. Does it compare to actual CSEM? Not in the slightest according to law.
@@jzpowell2108While you're not wrong about the law's word on the subject depending on country to country. The fact of the matter is l0lish0con depicts CHILDren, in CORNographic contexts. Therefore l0licon is functionally cp.
If you have to find a loophole to access cp like 'tEh Ch1lDrEn DePiCtEd DoNt AcTuAlLy ExIsT, sO yOo CaNt ToUcH mEh PoLeIzI!!1!!', then you just want cp - and also think 'aCtUaLlY iT's 3pHeEbRoPhIlLyIa!' is a serious argument.
@@astickofbutter4247 when you can type without all the upper and lowercasing, comeback with your argument mate, I’m not going to give myself an aneurysm trying to read whatever argument you’re putting forth with all that nonsense
So weird to hear that this guy harassed an artist over Invader Zim R34 while having legit several terabytes of child abuse material and hurtcore on his hard drive. Reset the clocks I guess.
@@KingKrouch the fuck is "hurtcore?"
@@Jackass_Of_AII_Tradesit’s physical
abuse of children in CP
@@Not_that_type_of_guy Then just say that. Don't get cute by adding that "core" shit to it.
@@Jackass_Of_AII_Trades Yeah meant to say physical abuse and torture. There's a wikipedia article on it, so it's definitely a term.
@@Jackass_Of_AII_Trades It's what they call it when distributing it, that's the "genre" of CSAM, where it involves sadistic physical abuse as the main theme, "hardcore hurting," I guess.
Vile people.
Let's not forget that connecting Kyle's appearance with his actions could affect people with similar physical appearances. Months ago someone commented me that i looked like yandere dev and thought i was a creep which increased my anxiety and felt concerned about my appearance. It's necessary not to judge people based on their looks
You have absolutely enormous mutton chops eating your face also?
Same here
I believe in innocent till proven guilty, I don't believe that Kyle is a monster!
Physiogomy in action, lol
Just trolling, but these stereotypes are accurate for a reason
Great comment that I wholeheartedly support and I'm so sorry that happened to you.
You're not a creep until you do creepy things, so (I know how much easier said than done this is) try to not listen to some random idiots drawing conclusions with nothing more than your appearance as "evidence". Hope you're having a nice day regardless!
Oh boy.... this is going to be nasty. Lemme step into an hour long shower as I watch this video.
Heya Petey!
Turn on the water and just cry, maybe throw up
Just make sure that it's a cold shower
just like jean-paul marat
I know of you and yeah that comment feels right.
Saber I love you but I'm really gonna need people who are not in the psychology field to stop saying things like "I can't imagine a licensed [etc] supporting something like this" just because YOU don't like or understand it.
I have been ridiculed for so long for the fictional content I indulge in when it has been suggested to me by both medical professionals and those I know personally studying in the field that it's probably the only thing that's been able to hold me together after all of my own personal trauma.
It's my own coping mechanism that doesn't hurt anyone, if it helps me cope and heal then why should I stop, just because it makes other people uncomfortable? Fine, then block me and move on with your life, simple as that, if anything be happy you haven't been fucked up enough in the head that indulging in said content is what's needed to keep your head up.
It's such a waste that people would target victims for drawing this sort of content. It's the old saying of how fictional characters are treated like real people while real people are treated like fictional characters. It makes me so fucking mad man
@@Madjichen Exactly it's sooo bad
And hey funny thing (not actually funny but y'know) shortly after this my boyfriend of 6 years broke up with me and said a bunch of things he hasn't been honest with me about and one of them was him saying he hates how much I'm into problematic content (even though I literally go out of my way to keep all of it away from him) and went off about how he doesn't understand how that can help someone and that he can't imagine a professional suggesting it when, yes, a professional DID recommend it
@@-TOBESTER- What the fuck???! I've noticed that people who publicly call out others who enjoy that fictional content are often trying to look for it which tells me more about them than the "degenerate" they so despise. I'm so sorry that happened. That fucking sucks.
Saber-Jerk the Closeted Furry really do be tryna say "Cartoon Artwork and Real CSEM are morally and ethically the same."
@@kitsunegiblaze8022 I don't exactly want to call him a jerk over it, this is unfortunately a very common way that people view this, it's just uneducated if anything
How fucking hard is it to leave kids alone? All these youtubers, producers, etc being into kids is crazy
Hey! Animators! Leave them kids alone!
@@zainmudassir2964 Hey! Kids! Leave those animators alone!
No seriously kids, stay away from those guys. Please.
Statistically speaking, if i recall, 1 in 10 people has some thoughts or urges so just look up the total number of each of those and divide it by ten. That's why.
@@bruhverlybruh4012 source?
Normal people aren't terminally online.
The final part of this video is the most important: You would think - after SO MANY instances of criminal/pedo behavior happening at CN and Nick - they would have put in place SOME screening procedures to prevent the hiring of such individuals.
But they just cannot be bothered, it seems.
History repeats itself
I know Nickelodeon had them, but I think this is the first one to be found at Cartoon Network.
@@jaxonfletcher7424 not the first as Skyler Page creator of Clarence got fired for allegations of SA
It seems like many of the biggest creators get positions based on connections in the industry (i.e. word of mouth) rather than any sort of screened hiring process.
Unfortunately, it's a systemic issue based on nepotism, allowing predators to avoid detection by simply knowing the right people to vouch for them.
Especially if some people can be bribed to look the other way.
I think that this is not a time or place to say "both sides were in the wrong."
While yes you have the right to be disgusted with any art that comes from a deep uncomfortable part within people. Especially the traumatized.
In this instance, Ang did everything they were supposed to. Kept it on a private alt account, didnt self promote, and for the most part was inoffensive.
Kyle, on the other hand, took advantage of his position of power over others and actively engaged in real child abuse.
Until it's revealed that Ang themselves is an actually child abuser, Kyle is 100% in the wrong through and through on all sides.
100% agree. If anything to even group the 2 together kinda destracts from a real monster. At points I thought he was still talking about drawn stuff because he kept comparing the two.
art is art in the end, posted privately in a gated community it harms noone.
Yeah shows how easy is it to blacklist people. Ang was not at fault. It was a bad take.
Closet pedophiles justifying their art more at 6:00 pm.
why wasn't kept fully private and on a HDD?
The fact that I've seen multiple people in the comments fail to understand that Kyle had photographs of real children being sexually tortured and not just drawing of fake children clearly shows this video's failing in emphasizing the clear difference between these two things. The reason Ange did not get arrested and Kyle did is because one is morally bad, but legal because it causes no direct harm to children, while the other is real pictures of real children being for real harmed. it's weird that CSEM was not defined well enough in the video that multiple people have had to ask in the comments if he was arrested for drawings and seriously downplays what Kyle did
I would argue against the part about "morally bad", as simply a difference of opinion. You can not like something and not want to see it, without telling others that they shouldn't like it or want to see it either, since calling it "morally bad", is no different than shaming those people who enjoy that content. It's fictional content, after all. It would be like looking at violence in video games and calling it "morally bad", just because it's bad in real life.
But yeah, it's a shame that people don't understand the difference between legal and illegal content, when it comes to this sort of thing.
@@kryzethxIt is commonly seen as morally bad though. Although not NEARLY as bad as real CP, It’s a pretty normal human reaction to be put off by and want to stay away from people who draw / get off to the idea of children in sexual scenarios
@@mrbusinesss1 There's a lot of sexual content in the world that could be seen as "morally bad' by a lot of people, but again, it's fictional content.
One could argue that it's a pretty normal human reaction to stay away from people who enjoy murder and violence in their media, because murder and violence in real life is "morally bad". The only reason we don't really see that sentiment anymore, is because violence in media has been normalized (at least in the US).
Again, it's fine to not like something, and not want to associate with people who do like that thing, but people would go way too far with it, trying to cancel and de-platform others, cheering when the content they don't like is removed. That's when it crosses a line for me.
@@kryzethx I was both sides-ing on purpose. I agree with you. My point was more that regardless how you feel about lolisho (which is illegal in most english speaking countries from what I know), CSEM is objectively far far worse and painting them both merely as "bad" while failing to emphasize the extreme difference between them is negligent
@@gal-b9d That does not sound true at all. At least in the US, lolisho is absolutely not illegal, and the FBI has publicly complained about the amounts of people falsely reporting that content to them as wasting their time and resources. Not sure how it is in other countries, but the US should account for half of those "english speaking countries" that you mention (in terms of population)
But yes, I do agree with your primary point.
No comparison between Ang and Carrozza. It's like comparing somebody who likes gratuitously gory movies and games to an actual serial killer.
No its like comparing a psychopath who hasn't killed anyone to a psychopath who has.
@@Isebrand No... It isn't. One is a work of fiction, one is the real thing. I'm not saying loli/shota isn't screwed up, but they're still works of fiction, while Kyle's s-x crimes were not. One is at best a red flag, and one is an actual criminal act. People often play fast and loose with the fiction = reality argument whenever it's convenient. The same people that call for censoring anime will cheer for the ability to have s-x with a bear in Baldur's Gate 3. The same people that say games cause violence have nothing to say when it comes to horror movies like SAW.
@@flarestorm9417I agree that Kyle is by far the worst person in this scenario. But I find it disturbing how many people are defending ang as it’s impossible to have a story where everyone has poor character. You don’t always have to have a good guy and bad guy. Sometimes everyone is the bad guy.
But I’m totally fine with ranking who is the baddest of the bad guys.
@@flarestorm9417 look up the dsm5 definition of pedophilia. It is a mental illness and should not be treated by reinforcing that behavior.
@@IsebrandLoli and shota are creepy but it's pretty wacko to imply it's anything on the level of actual CP.
The characters in Loli and shota aren't real. They don't actually exist. The children in CP are very much real children.
It is 100% real that therapists would advise people to express whatever they want through cartoons and find community online. Ask any therapist or look up anything on art therapy and trauma.
That sounds pretty interesting
Yep. My therapist knows I like to write and draw and has encouraged me to explore my trauma through those avenues instead of letting it fester.
Yes, but shota fanart shouldn't be one of those things, specially if you're not a little child. If you keep drawing those things as a teen or as an adult it isn't a good sign.
I agree with OP, but I also agree with @@kirausamaria5409. I understand the concept of art therapy and I can see a therapist encouraging them to explore those issues in a constructive way, but what bothers me is that they posted that art in a public place for other people to... enjoy? That complicates the situation quite a bit. At the least, it suggests that that was not JUST a therapeutic outlet.
@@kirausamaria5409 ok why not
It’s actually pretty common for therapists to be okay with this method. I know it can be kind of confusing and even disgusting at first, but it has something to do with having power over the fantasy, because the victim didn’t have it when they were assaulted. It doesn’t work for EVERY victim, in fact, it can make things worse for some, but for others, having a character go through the same thing they went through makes them feel less alone. It’s a complex issue for sure, but Ang wasn’t hurting anyone, and that was all that mattered.
Big agree
When I was younger and still pretty freshly wounded by my CSEM trauma I imagined fictional characters going through it with me. It's silly, maybe, but it genuinely helped me through some of the hardest times of my life. 'Dark fiction' as a coping mechanism is pretty common in children and people with childhood trauma.
yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyy happy smile i use this coping mechanism
Fucking thank you
@@omoriboykinnie9819 lol i bet youre a shotacon with a username like that
So what I'm getting is that this is yet another person who attacked someone for doing loli/shota stuff, and then ended up getting caught with actual CP.
Look, I know a lot of people don't like loli stuff (myself included), but more often than not the people into that stuff are next to harmless, if a bit creepy. However, it has become a horrific trend that those who trying to denounce it tend to be virtue signaling because they are doing the real thing. No one (even those who like loli stuff) are saying that others have to like it too, but I think it should be obvious that looking at drawings, no matter the material, is far less offensive and disgusting than possessing actual CP, and it's ridiculous that those trying to shun the lesser of two evils here only seem to be doing it to try and deflect them doing the greater of the two.
Same thing with violence in videogames vs real life: one is inconsequential while the other involves actual people with hopes, dreams, and loved ones getting hurt. Sure, some people might flock to violent media as a "legal alternative", but you still can't persecute them on that basis alone.
@etonasamawhy?
@@somethingcraft3148 Oh boy! I love psychology, so let me explain. I'm assuming you are asking why he likes lolis, and while I can't speak for his desires, I can speak more generally about desires as a whole. A simple fact that people need to acknowledge is that we don't get to choose how we feel. You don't decide what makes you happy, and you don't decide what you enjoy, all you have control over is how you react to those feelings.
It is a lot like violent video games. Some people enjoy it because of the technical skill the game demands, and would enjoy it just as much if it was colorful bricks instead of blood flying when they pull the trigger. Others enjoy it because of the visceral nature, seeing the carnage they are unleashing upon their enemies sates an urge to commit violence that they wouldn't otherwise have a safe outlet for. Yet another reason to enjoy it for violence's sake would be the same reason horror gets enjoyed, to feel the adrenaline pumping and the sense of danger in a controlled, safe environment. Then there are others who use it as an outlet to vent built up frustrations, they are angry at someone in particular and want to hurt them, but instead alleviate these negative emotions by letting them out on npcs or an online game where no one actually gets hurt.
None of the above examples get to choose what they feel or why they enjoy what they do, all they can do is control how they react to these emotions.
Same with lolicons. Some of them are seeking exposure therapy to soothe their own trauma from being victimized, replacing the negative emotions from that event with newer memories. Others have dangerous desires that they want a safe outlet for. They can't choose to just not feel those desires, but at least with purely fictional works they get a way to vent where no one gets hurt. There are some that just enjoy petite women, the character that gets frustrated because she needs her ID checked when buying alcohol even though she is in her 30s is appealing because of her comedic potential and the extreme gap between her behavior and her character design. Then there are others that just enjoy the art style, and there is no connection whatsoever in their mind to real life scenarios. They just like seeing the exaggeratedly cutesy characters like you would awe at a baby bunny being adorable.
The most important aspect of psychology is remembering that every individual is different, so even if people enjoy the same thing, their reasons for doing so could be miles apart.
@etonasama Ew
Usually it's the people who harp on about wanting to "protect the children" that tend to get outed as predators or for possessing CSEM. That or they end up associating with someone who falls into either category. And it ain't just with loli/shota stuff, since it happens often with people who try to pedojacket minorities as well.
On the other hand, Western Twitter loli/shotacons pretty much just embody the "CunnyEpstein1488" stereotype to a T and just love to assume anyone who thinks their paraphilia is weird must be a predator themselves. The ones who aren't like that just keep to themselves and actually have way more self-awareness.
One of the scariest things to me is that I almost worked with Kyle recently. I was familiar with his work but not his controversies. I'm so glad these projects never went anywhere and he's getting the disgrace he deserves.
I’m a bit confused on how to really start talking about this but I’m the illustrator of the comic around 34:08 and I have to add a few factoids that saber missed, me and Kyle met around the tail end of 2021, we were mutes and worked together on a indie animation project from the group sickmutt, which was also slated to have been the group responsible for his new moobeard pilot (fortunately this never happened due to multiple factors) around the time sickmutt went dormant was when I started a relationship with my now ex partner, whom Kyle actually knew as well and was friends with for a while, they encouraged me to become closer friends with him and I found Kyle to be a lot nicer than I imagined him to be, he was kind and offered me a hand with my portfolio and gave me a now known false sense of trust, when me and my ex eventually broke up that’s when he started outwardly sexualizing me, not even two weeks after my breakup,, he asked for nude pictures of me, knowing how vulnerable I was at the time, and I gave him what he wanted because I thought he was just making me feel better, i thought he did it to help me feel like I was wanted again, but I was just a play thing for him, I had this relationship with him up until his arrest, he legitimately disappeared one day and the next month I read the news via twitter, I had no fucking clue, none of us did, at one point I remembered that he told me that “I don’t want to feel like I’m using my power to get something from you” knowing how hypocritical he really was and how he used that wording to trick me was icing on top of the shit cake, I felt humiliated and used that afternoon, and frankly that feeling still hasn’t disappeared, and it’ll take time to really heal, I say all this because I want people to know that Kyle had a multitude of victims, more than what’s been shown here and what we know now, there’s possibly dozens or even HUNDREDS of victims floating around, hell I didn’t even know I wasn’t the only one until after the news broke, I want everyone to really learn from this and realize that it really can be anyone, it could be you, you can be a victim at any moment and you won’t even know it, just as anyone you know could be a predator, look out for each other, and don’t worship creators no matter how wholesome they may seem.
As a mental health counselor I want to thank you for being willing to stand up and state this information. I’m sure it was incredibly difficult to go through all those moments. I hope that things get better for you soon.
Holy shit, I'm so sorry. It's never easy to go through something like this. Thank you for speaking up about this and I wish you a positive healing journey.
jesus, go to the police and show them your DMs (not the pics). it'll help with the case
I aint readin allat
@@SuperDuperPaperDude Alright. Then go away. We don’t need you here in this conversation? You contributed nothing. What’s even the point of you writing that? You want an award? Attention? A cookie?
Seriously annoyed at this point with how many people can be so illiterate and braindead on the internet that they can’t even read basic paragraphs anymore. Especially since the original commenter had difficulty sharing traumatic experiences.
I usually would have never blown my top off at a simple comment like this. but too many times I’ve seen victims trying to speak up and share their experiences, only to have their voice invalidated with “I Ain’t reading all that.” And I guess today was the day.
Fine. Then keep it to yourself then. Why even bother writing if you’re not going to pay attention?
I swear to god, why can't people just *NOT* be weirdos, I swear. Is it really that difficult or do people just not have anything better to dp?
I believe it has more to do with unchecked mental health issues that have to do with prior abuse/normalization of $exualizing of underage kids from isolated and anti-social people on social media.
Mentally ill people who let themselves devolve into creeps encourage other creeps into thinking they’re not doing anything wrong.
Its most likely what theyve experienced early on in life that made their ways so fucked up
Traumas are just something else man
That's why I restrain myself from calling myself someone's fan. Like, I really want to call myself Alex Hirsch fan, but I am afraid that someday it will turn out that he was a creep all this time.
As always, those types of weirdos are attracted to power, and or attention. They also usually know how to hide.
Because a lot of us artists are traumatized, mentaly ill or both
"Person A drew nsfw on their private acc of invader Zim characters while person B harassed person A and was caught with 600 images of csem so they both suck and im not rooting for either"
Awful take.
Just because one did something worse doesn't mean the other did nothing morally wrong. Get real.
@@Dinjur Ok paedough.
@moonsigil You call me that, yet you're defending the drawing it illegal material. I obviously think Kyle is way worse, but that doesn't mean we should let the other slide.
@@Dinjur You should phone the police right now and tell them that the cartoon characters are in danger. Let me know how it goes!
@moonsigil You're being bad faith. Just say you're pro-loli and be done with it so I don't have to waste my time with you.
When you assume someone is a creep just because they're ugly, it only allows attractive people to slip by your perceptive defenses.
The only way to stay safe is to assume everyone is a creep💯
This
Lol yea
I assume everyone who hates loli is a creep. It’s happened too many times to just be a coincidence
@@excalibur2078 That's... A very strange filter.
@@NaimHrustanovic I wouldn’t say I agree with them, but there seems to be a noticeable connection. It’s only the people I’ve seen so adamantly speak out against lolisho that end up being predators themselvee, defending the predators, or giving them a safe space. Isn’t it concerning that there is an entire archive of that happening?
it's a tale as old as time, every time someone becomes loud and outspoken over hot button topics online like the anime stuff, shipping, whatever else stuff over fictional characters if you know you know, that almost always means they're projecting something terrible and are so often revealed to be the real creeps hurting real people
Preach
same with all those GQP members fearmongering about "protecting kids" from LGBTQ people and calling them "Groomers" when they pretty much ALWAYS turn out to be pedos themselves, just look at Matt Gaetz.
At this point, it would be more surprising to me if a "PDF file" DIDN'T attack and slander others over lolisho and pro-ship art.
Those who screech about virtue the loudest are often the ones who do the most evil..
Imagine having so much Tumblr fandom brainrot that you unironically think not being okay with artwork that sexualizes children is “projecting”.
You weirdos act like drawing cp is just some normal casual thing and anyone who calls you out for it is either “woke” or “projecting” as if shota/loli weirdos are not constantly getting exposed for this sort of behavior. I can assure you, if you went and told a normal person who doesn’t spend most of their time on the internet that you defended cp artwork, they would think you’re a freak. Not a “proshipper” or an “anti-anti”, a freak.
I may find lolisho disgusting but idk how randomly showing your coworkers someone’s private porn non consensually didn’t set off any alarms. And the idea that someone can get fired and blacklisted for private art they kept to themself scares me
it´s also weird too when you know other creators has done similar things on animated shows for years, the whole Disney rule34 vault thing is no joke. same with other animated shows, the only difference I can think of is that this is online compared to when it was physical. but then the question is how private does a profile/website has to be for it to be considered private.
some guy actually got arrested in 2005 just for ordering some Loli Manga from Japan, really fucked up.
@@GaetorCreation yeah idk :/ I have a nsfw patreon and while I don’t draw underage or other morally questionable stuff I’m still worried about not being able to get a job
@@jadedheartsz good lol
@@jadedheartsz That often happens in commonwealth countries, Australia being the most censorious.
28:42 Okay, for the record... sexualizing your trauma IS a valid coping mechanism, it just isn't the right one for everyone. It helps the victim gain more control over their abuse.
I'm sorry but I find it dissmisive and sad that you would openly doubt the validity of this before doing your own research into it. I get not thinking it's a good coping tragedy, but publicly doubting the advice from a therapist when you know very little yourself about coping mechanisms sends a horrible message to your audience.
Creep 😊
@@divine555Ditto
@@divine555try asking a therapist yourself, people online don't understand the mentality before calling others names
drawing art based around your trauma is something I was told to do when I was in art therapy. I saw the callout posts and it broke my heart that art she was drawing and posting on a private acc getting leaked leading to mass bullying and almost suicide.
i feel like theres a pretty clear difference between drawing vent art and sex of children characters having sex. like it just feels like your taking the piss.
It is!! Unfortunately everyone who has never been in that position most of the time won’t understand and just like what happened here, might be attacked for it. There is such a huge difference of real life and fictional art.
But people either understand the difference and don’t do what Kyle did to her or they don’t and end up spamming to the CPS over fictional art and written fan fiction 🫠 (mass reporting has happened before and actively commonly happens over time gumming actual CP reports)
@@CloverWoodss they aren't children though, are they?
She was drawing CP. I don't care if it was meant to cope with trauma. You don't draw that crap, period.
@@explodingpikachu7475 one is illegal, because it’s real, the other isn’t, because it’s not real. Doesn’t matter
We need a documentary like Quiet on Set to expose such people in the world of animation because children work as voice actors too. I never really thought about it, but there should be a light on cartoon directors and producers too
especially for those kids shows with lgbt themes
@@abrahamlupis9354 what?
Quiet on the Set has actually been condemned by many of the people that participated in it saying that the Discovery producers took what they said out of context(the producer of Double Dare Mark Summers said he was outright lied to) so no we don't need more exploitative garbage like that piece of crap excuse for a documentary.
@@jadedheartsz Plus most people would probably forget about in like a month or so, only to bring up when a similar situation is arise.
Yea really. I don't see why they would be much different
I’m not going to lie, when I first saw the picture of the creator when the drama first broke out, i actually thought it was a shitpost because he just looks like exactly the type of person I’d see getting convicted for this crime on some Law Show.
lmao
Real, he looks like a discord face reveal on a genshin impact server… I should know… I’ve seen it first hand 🙁
@@sandingpaperbruh
The orange vest is too specific. Pedo-core fashion is wild.
@@sandingpapernot just any normie, the Visage of a true moderator.
Kyle's victims were real life people with thoughts and feelings who have to live with what happened to them. What Ang did was draw Rule 34 of fictional characters and went through some very messed up stuff because of him. No way you're saying they're both as bad as each other, that's just ridiculous. But since you find 'icky' drawings to be comparable to CSEM; care to explain that art of Hilda from Pokémon from a screenshot of your Twitter likes? Last time I checked, Hilda's age is 14.
Oof you got him there
Someone also posted a video of his likes and it included lewd art of Rebecca from CyberPunk Edgerunners which is a loli
that and defending his friend who groomed an mlp va
@@animegeek733actually didn’t the creators say she was 20?
@@TheDigitalApple Rebecca is an adult but that doesn't change the fact she is a loli, as Studio Trigger had literally stated and i quote "The loli stays" when asked to be redesigned or removed by Cd Project Red, remember Tatsumaki from OPM is also an adult yet still considered a loli
29:46 Therapists do actually recommend this type of coping, pretty often. It doesn’t work for everyone, and can make some people’s trauma and problems worse, but for many it does prove to be very therapeutic and allows victims to take control over their own trauma through entirely fictional scenarios
imo, there's a HUGE difference between drawing something for yourself that is meant to help you cope with something, and drawing shota then posting said shota online to twitter. It was a private twitter, sure, but people can still follow a private twitter, and if they never wanted anyone to see it, then they wouldn't have posted it in the first place. tbh the therapist was probably assuming they'd be drawing themself as a child with their abuser, because that would be the most reasonable one. I doubt the therapist knew they were straight up just drawing underage cartoon r34. Doesn't excuse kyle carrozza being an actual legitimate fucking pedophile, but any normal non-pedophile probably wouldn't want to associate with someone that drew that stuff, either
@@IsisNikoPerhaps you shouldn't make assumptions about things you clearly know nothing about.
@@IsisNiko honestly, i agree with that point on sho
Yes, but I cannot imagine a seasoned therapist giving an unqualified thumbs up to such art being posted online because of the obvious risks involved.
To the commenters here - its a private, locked account. As someone with first hand experience doing therapy and who knows a lot of people who are therapists and up to date with research, good therapists DO in fact encourage forming a community if you can find it, because coping with this shit by yourself is HARD. What someone does in their private time is their own business, and you really shouldnt care what your friend/acquaintance/coworker etc is into. It doesnt involve you in any way.
Coming from a CSA surviour myself, I know I might get hate for saying this but I 100% believe Ang when they say that their therapist encouraged them to engage in taboo art therapy, because my therapist did the same and I know several others who have the same story. Of course this approach doesn't work for all survivors, but for many it is cathartic for the exact same reason something like BDSM can help with trauma. It puts you in the traumatic scene you were in, except this time you're in control.
I also wanna say I highly respect your use if the term CSEM instead of calling it CP. It is not porn and calling it so is such disrespect for the victims.
I was also going to say that Mighty Magiswords was actually a rip off of the 90s anime Slayers, but I'm seeing comments already saying that.
One last thing, this situation with Kyle isn't even the first this kind of thing has happened in proship/antishipper discourse. Over the years there have been several instances where antishippers have been projecting their hate for taboo artwork, only for it to turn out that they're an actual pedo. This is just the first time it's happened with someone big in an industry.
Well, is there any difference, even if one's used for venting?
@@GumSkyloard yes there’s a clear difference. One harms children and one is a form of venting that harms no one and can be stopped any time they want
@@GumSkyloard also one is real and one is fictional, and leveling the fictional one as the same actually waters down terms and convinces people that if you report it then you’ll be reporting a pedophile, when in actuality, it just clogs up the system and makes it harder to help real kids, as said by the people working to protect children because they were getting THOUSANDS of false reports that were just cartoons and led to it taking longer to find the actual ones who harmed kids and wasted so much resources.
@@LynnLieCosplay ... Huh. I guess...
Sexually exploitative material about children, but used as a form of therapy, or release? That's definitely a... concept.
God not to sound super chronically online but the whole "my therapist told me it was okay and healthy to draw" to deal with SA IS actually real. Its a subsection of exposure therapy and works similarly to how kink therapy would work.
I have my own personal fewlings aboyt whether or not that type of art should be shared and if so how visible to the public it should be but oh well. What IS insane about this case is the insane amount of projection on behalf of kyle here. At the end of the day Ange DID NOT commit any sort of crime and Kyle is an ACTUAL pdphile so. Yeah.
THANK YOUUUUUU
I do not think that fetishizing abuse would be something that a therapist who is worth their salt would suggest.
@@RocketboyXNobody cares what you think about a profession you clearly know nothing about.
For me its like I am always against lolicon and shota content but hearing so many people say this was a legitimate coping strategy what I think is especially effed up is that he went ahead and shared it with other people and I’m 100% sure he shared it with people that were going to spread it like wildfire. Like I get not wanting someone that draws these sort of stuff working on your children’s show (which obviously is a moot point given the circumstances) but thats just a whole other level of evil
@@RocketboyX Vent Art is called Vent Art for a reason
Comparing ang drawing fictional porn to kyle owning 600 videos of child porn is scummy spineless behavior
@@dragongirl2004You really need to take Saber's meat out of your mouth, it's embarrassing. He admitted that he has no idea about the subject, much less having knowledge on it. Yet he thinks that he is somehow the authority on what people can or cannot choose to cope with.
If he didn't think so, he wouldn't have said that both sides are bad. As if drawings of non-existent fictional characters are in ANY way shape or form even remotely comparable to actual CSEM.
I won't be surprised if Saber will join a certain list very soon.
Agreed. It's like comparing owning the SAW movies to owning cartel execution videos... Drawing sh*ta and l*li is controversial, the morals of it are somewhat debatable. CP is not debatable, it's so obviously wrong and the law follows.
Both are wrong. Simple as. One is worse.
@@lmads8023 one hurts nobody, and the other hurts real children. If you genuinley think those things are both bad, youre an Idiot
@@lmads8023 no they're not, drawing cartoon porn is not on the same level as fucking child porn
There is absolutely no comparison between Ang’s art and real pictures of children being abused, and it’s so upsetting that Ang is continuing to be victim blamed when their life was ruined by that monster.
Under his own logic this means saberspark is a furry so he is a real danger to animals and will touch your dog privates.
Nobody said there was other than Ang was created pornography based in part pf the abuse they suffered and share that abuse adjacent pornography with others.
Its in her private acc. Fk u on about? @@RocketboyX
@@victorwretched1072 hasn't Saber also liked NSFW art of underage characters before? Or I guess it's okay because they don't 'look' underage.
@@MegabombGamer-rb5khit's ok because they *aren't* underage at all, since they are fictional
I feel so bad for Grey DeLisle, the fact that she was working with him, she has three kids, and she was working with a closet pedo is fucked beyond belief. Not only does this taint the entire show, but it soils everyone else's performances in the series.
i don't think it taints the actors as they had no idea.
@@jadedheartsz Yes it is true, but there is still sadly the matter of being apart of the tainted art.
Anyone who does the blame by association despite there being no way they are linked
Is just a sheep anyway
Imagine saying Chris parnell or Keith David are tarnished for working on Rick and Morty
Cause Justin Roland is a creep who knowingly texted minors
Or tom Kenny is tarnished because he worked on Clarence and the original creator of Clarence had sexual harrassment issues?
@@jadedheartsz Yeah and she recently went after an Indie Animator over some AI stuff threatening to blacklist them so she doesn't get my sympathy.
@@mechajay3358 anyone promoting AI shit has no sympathy from me so i'm with Grey on this one.
Why are people talking about this Carrozza guy like he was some beloved figure? Ive never heard of this man or his show until recently when these crimes came to light.
I had the exact same thought
Also, inv4 the bots copy and ruin everything
I'd heard of the show, but not the guy.
I watched Magiswords when I was younger, the demographic, liked it but wasn't that great
barely seen people talk about the creator either
Yeah, even TTG was better than his show
I was only sad because i liked the pilot he made
Not a fan of how you misrepresented Ang and the concept of vent art/art therapy, and comparing Ang's drawings to actual material depicting children being harmed. This is victim-blaming Ang, and quite frankly I'm disappointed and disgusted that you and your team are devaluing the actual harm of CSEM by comparing it to drawings. Please do better research, especially on such a heavy and commonly misrepresented topic.
Ang's drawings and what their therapist told them is an actual form of treatment. Other comments have gone more in-depth about it, but it's absurd to me that you didn't look into trauma art and art therapy and instead went "Oh I don't think that seems like treatment". This mentality is harmful to people who are either going through mental health treatment or want to seek it out. It shames them and regresses their recovery.
Do better. I know you can.
Saber has earned my un-sub. Comparing cartoon drawings to CSEM sure is a goofy "take" that I expected out of some random Twitter Zombie, not from Saber, who I had thought could at least separate fiction from reality.
Clarence fans be like: "heh, welcome to the tainted CN Studios club"
I read this in Clarence's voice.
wait damn i never liked clarence but that show too??? is there any cn show that isn't tainted???
What happened to Clarence?
@@danny_decheeto8300 it's creator Skyler Page got fired from CN after getting accused of SA by coworkers and going off on insane unhinged rants.
@@jadedheartsz gah damn bruh
The more you hear more about Kyle, specifically going after another artist over some art, it's not all that surprising in hindsight that he was shady guy.
Art? Sounds like they were creating CP using those underage boy characters 😮 how can you defend drawing young boy characters being drawn in adult situations?
It's fiction. It's not reality you brainiac
@@warriors6411 Are we forgetting Kyle had 600 images of REAL, harmed kids, or? One of those things is arguably worse
@@warriors6411 Don't compare fictional characters with real kids
@@warriors6411you can find it disgusting, but at the end of the day it’s still fictional, and should, in now way be above anyone’s life in terms of importance
Hi Saber, I’m a person who has seen a lot of therapists and someone who copes with CSA trauma through dark fiction. This coping method is in fact healthy, and supported by psychologists and therapists! It puts the power into the hands of the survivor and gives us the ability to control the situation we went through. Ang is not a bad person and they did not deserve what happened to them.
Thank you for speaking up. I was hoping someone would mention this. There's a reason that it's okay and that's because it's fictional. It's a safe way to explore.
Did they tell you to send the images to people who planned on masturbate to it, and possibly describe to you why they did? Nobody is saying art cannot heal, but the context of fetishizing is what seems self defeating.
Hey uh victim of grooming
Wtf 💀 thats called CP
@@Oceaninhysteria I'm really sorry that happened to you, but I don't think you should equate something as serious as the grooming of a real person to dark fiction.
CSEM is bad. Period. I don't want to hear it. It should not exist in public in any capacity.
I'm sorry Saber, but Ang isn't anywhere close to being just as bad as Kyle. I get it: she drew material that is messed up. I don't condone it, but I get why a person who suffered SA might use taboo art as a coping mechanism. If they kept it on an account that was classified as adults only, kept it away from kids and people in the industry, and kept it to themselves, it's fine. They weren't hurting anyone. To claim they're just as bad as the guy who had ACTUAL CP OF ACTUAL CHILDREN, THOUGH? ARE YOU SERIOUS, SABER!? One person drew stuff that's gross, but ultimately harms no one. THE OTHER HAD ACTUAL MATERIAL OF REAL KIDS BEING ABUSED. Kyle ACTUALLY committed a crime. Ang just drew stuff. How is that even REMOTELY the same thing, man!? This is like claiming a guy who kills people in a video game is just as bad as an actual murderer. There's no correlation. You should know better.
I don't think Saber knows the difference because to show him throwing up to the definition of loli means he assumes it is immediately means lewd stuff. But that is not what that definition means. He just jumps to the worse part of shortacon and lolicon. Which shows he doesn't know the difference between real and fiction as well as what those words actually mean. Yes they include the lewd stuff but not always.
I agree, japanese mangakas get fame with such designs
Justice for Ang by the way. He threw Ang under the bus and accused them of being a pedophile over invader zim art drawn on a LOCKED account, and he used Ang as a scapegoat to save his own skin
What's he up to nowadays?
@@MASTEROFEVILgenuinely no more info of him , he was ban from the art community
Ang is a gross creep too
@@popcultureoverdosed They've done nothing wrong
@@TheMuffinBurgler Keep telling yourself that. I don't feel sorry for any of these people involved in the drama.
So my two bits; many therapist do suggest using a medium to help with trauma, for me my therapist suggested writing about it and changing all the outcomes in the story to help me work through it in my own way and give me control that I did not have during the situation, it has helped a lot of people work through their own trauma/issues. Also not liking something is perfectly fine, but when someone vehemently rallies against a specific thing it is best to dig into their closet because they clearly have something dark and dirty in there.
In general people trying to act like Chris Hansen or To Catch a Predator online and spout how they super hate the people already most hated by society at some point just turns into trying to run cover for those act or having other skeletons in your closet.
@@ew275x that show did more damage to catching predators than anything, nowadays it is all about the clout and not the victims
Yes!! As someone who’s also a CSA survivor, expressing your experiences through safe, fictional spaces is incredibly helpful with coping through trauma. As long as you aren’t exposing people to it and keeping it strictly as a form of healing/coping, then it is very helpful. Justice for Ang!
@@thefisherking2268 and Kyle’s inner circle definitely knew what he had going, and probably shared among themselves because they were defending him fiercely, probably scared he would cut a deal by ratting them out
Yes…but Ang was not doing anything to keep her side account private. And considering some of the stuff she posted I can see why it ended up getting her fired from working on a children’s cartoon.
Kyle absolutely fucking sucks, don’t get me wrong. This situation has just been heavily lied about by all sides online.
I once worked with Kyle myself while being an animator for the Dtoons channel. At first, he seemed like a nice man and a very talented artist with a fun and wacky style. Even his cartoon series Mighty Magiswords was quite solid. But like many of my peers at Dtoons, I was shocked and appalled upon learning about his unsavory secret life, and we did not hesitate to cut all ties with him for our reputation's sake.
remember Kyle is innocent until proven guilty, all defendants have a right to a fair trial!
Hi, I’ve watched your videos for years, but I cannot believe that this video spends so many minutes conflating Invader Zim r34 with literal CSEM??? I watched the whole thing because I was like “surely, SURELY that’s not what’s happening” but it was, and now I’ve ended up financially supporting this insane take by watching it.
how can you be like “everybody sucks here” when one person is a literal, actual, charged and convicted pdfile, and one person privately drew problematic pixels??
And how can you feel good about publicly dismissing and doubting their therapist’s recommendations, when you admit that you don’t know anything about it, and not do any research before you publish a 1 hr video to your hundreds of thousands of followers??
If I didn’t know anything about it beforehand, I would’ve agreed with you. How many people are going to watch this video and seek this person out, after ‘learning’, from you, that they’re a lying creep that “is basically just as bad“ as a literal pdfile?
It's funnier when people who are outspoken against lolis tend to be actual p3dophiles
And the fact that he has such a huge audience makes this 10x worse.
I had a lot of respect for Kyle. I loved Frog Raccoon Strawberry, thought Moobeard had potential, and ADORED Mighty Magiswords. There really wasn't a cartoon like it before on CN...but that won't keep me from hating what he did and hoping fitting treatment is given to him. He deserves proper punishment.
This is why you don’t worship your idols.
What is there to like about mighty magiswords? Do you happen to use TikTok and enjoy dangling keys, by chance?
@@tanner201x8 I always loved it conceptually, with all the different and creative swords. Also yeah, kept the ADHD riddled brain occupied
@@tanner201x8 Hookay wanna go that route? Be rude while actively asking me a question? Here's my answer then:
1. Magiswords are a fun concept.
2. Super Teamwork Combos made for a lot of creative uses of Magiswords.
4. Riboflavin was a land with a ton of variety.
5. GREAT voice acting all around: Grey DeLisle, Phil LaMarr, Eric Bauza, Kate Micucci, Candi Milo, Tom Kenny, Weird Al, Judy Tenuta and the talented Mr. Lawrence.
6. The art style in and of itself is very inspired, taking cues from retro rubberhose and lighthearted Sword and Sorcery.
7. Fantasy that actually bothered to be fun and not just some hipster teen's weak-ass diet philosophy like what Adam Muto did to adventure time.
8. Characters that could be fairly endearing like Zombie Pumpkin Magisword or "Witch Way".
9. Good soundtrack.
10. Strong expressive animation.
11. Strong use of computer animation.
12. Grup.
13. Comedic timing. YES it's a fast-paced cartoon but straight up Rocky and Bullwinkle was a show with a million gags a minute that relied on the quantity of jokes in case some jokes were weaker. When the jokes hit they were snappy because of the quick pace.
14. It was NOT afraid to be goofy during a time where Steven Universe, Adventure Time (Muto's Tenure as Showrunner) and Gravity Falls really tried making even comedic cartoons serialized with heavy story.
15. Could utilize meta-humor and punchline subversion in a good way that felt akin to old Classic Cartoon Shorts like Looney Tunes and Tex Avery.
That good enough?
@@TECH097 Wow Very nice Reply. Im glad you enjoyed it this much, just sad that things have to go this way. They need to
John K, Julia Vickerman, Bill Cosby, Kyle Carrozza, and Chris Savino are an insane villain team
The Touchyu Force
Absolutely diabolical
Add Nobohiro Watsuki to that list...sadly.
@@LowellLucasJr.who
@@fritzy8318 the author of Rurouni Kenshin. In 2017 he got busted for possessing CSAM
So many creative and influential people being exposed as creeps. It's disgusting.
Especially this very year alone. It's fucking sad.
Fr, like every month someone is getting outted as a predator like its some kind of monster of the week special
@@CaptainCat101 Things were always like this, but nowadays, everyone is a reporter.
What is it about the animation industry that makes behavior like this keep sprouting up?! 😵😵💫
The worst part is that Mighty Swords wasn't even that good to begin with
Hi saberpark. You probably wont read this but ill say it anyways.
I really enjoy your videos but as an artist who is a teenage SA survivor using art as a coping mechanism is an absolutely valid therapy technique.
I find it pretty gross that you compared an actual abuser and literal CSEM holder who got arrested to someone drawing invader zim porn on a private account of all things, more so claiming out of nowhere that "you dont believe the therapist thing" as if noncon fiction as a common casual roleplay kink/coping mechanism isnt one of the most studied topics in psychology. It literally takes a single google search to debunk your claim. You may personally find it uncomfortable or "weird" but that gives you no right to project your own discomfort to cast "objective moral judgment" on others on what is a completely subjective opinion, much less when youre completely iliterate on the topic.
Do better.
🙏
Saber's liked sexualized art of characters who are minors before, like not even long ago, so he's a hypocrite who's trying to deflect in order to appear morally better than he actually is. It's sad that it always turns out to be like this, but oh well. Guess it's best for you to look out for the eventual downfall video in like 2 to 3 years that digs out all of Saber's skeletons he's been keeping in his closet.
If you were that unsure if what Ang was doing was okayed why couldn't you contact a therapist? Instead of being judgemental of someone who was sexually assulted when you have no clue about how therapists would go about helping such victims
why would they feel it necessary to post the art online if it was a therapy exercise?? because there’s certainly people who enjoy art like that who haven’t been traumatized
@@foxsden12That's absolutely none of your business, people who have been hurt feel empathy and like to share with others they feel comfortable with.
@@foxsden12 Sharing that kind of art is theraupetical for both who posts it (they get to share their experiences) and the victims who see it (they get concrete proof their experiences are not unique and that there's room to heal).
As for the people who "are not traumatized who enjoy it", what's the harm in that? Who's getting harmed by that?
@@a.c.2906it kind of sounds a bit like turning your trauma into a fetish.
@@wajmgirlwhat’s your issue with people doing whatever they can to heal from their trauma? who cares if they sexualize something that happened to them? as long as they’re not harming themself or someone else, it should be fine.
Just letting you know that yes, therapists do recommend writing/drawing taboo art as a coping mechanism. Some studies that support this include "The S*xual Fantasies of Childhood S*xual Abuse Survivors: A Rapid Review," "Expressive Writing and Health," "Expressive writing buffers against maladaptive rumination," " "The Light in the Shadows: Therapeutic Explorations of Fantasy and Fear," "The Nature of Women’s R*pe Fantasies: An Analysis of Prevalence, Frequency, and Contents," "Punishing S*xual Fantasy." Apologies for the censorship, I just think this is really important and I don't want my comment to be taken down.
Do they also recommend posting it on the internet?
@@esotericoutcast641 According to people I know who is csa victim and lolicon they dont care about that.
@@esotericoutcast641 Assuming it's in space where children aren't allowed, and between people who are explicitly into that kind of thing, there isn't any problem with it.
People who engage in art like this as an outlet can help each other by talking and exchanging ideas.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine You're ok with creating safe spaces for people who are into depictions of children engaging in sexual behavior? You don't think this helps facilitates an unhealthy mindset?
@@esotericoutcast641 Only if it involves people who are cognitively/psychologically impaired in such a way that they can't properly distinguish fiction from reality, or are unable to empathize with others and grasp the consequences of their actions, ergo people who are substantially incapable of actually functioning properly in society, and are already a danger to others, sexually or not.
You're arguing that Grand Theft Auto facilitates crime.
I have heard that sometimes victims of child sexual abuse will be told to make shota/loli art to help with coping with their trauma. How I remember it being explained was that the victim’s trauma is specifically related to lack of control and manipulation, so making art of child characters as a willing or more knowledgeable (can’t think of a better word for it) participant is liberating to them. Kind of like vent art.
I don’t know how public the art was, but it seemed like it was hidden for people who didn’t want to see it.
Can confirm the first part. Also yeah, the account was private and with a different name, untraceable unless someone snitched.
@@a.c.2906considering it's probably twitter I'm not even surprised it got leaked....since website is shit at it's security.
May he be remembered for his crimes, and the victims compensated and given justice for the damage he's done.
innocent till proven otherwise, buddy!
OH MY FUCKING GOD STOP TRYING TO DEFEND THIS MAN. @@SpaceXfan2005
@@SpaceXfan2005600 f*cking images and videos. Get a grip.
@@SpaceXfan2005 True, but I'm pretty confident in the result.
Believe it or not, but creating art - even if it is nsfw - is actually recommended by some therapists for people to cope with their trauma, particularly those effected by CSA. It works as a form of exposure therapy where the victim is allowed to work through and process what happened to them without having them relive their trauma. It doesn't work for everyone - and that's fine if you don't like it - but if it's done effectively, it's great at giving the person affected back the power over the situation they didn't have initially.
Also, it is common for some abuse victims to go back to situations that resemble their trauma. That's why statistically abuse victims are more likely to be victims of other forms of abuse. Trauma manifests in weird ways.
That entire section reeked of victim-blaming and that's not in any way comparable to Kyle, nor acceptable. You should've just sat this one out. Bye
Don’t care. You’re opening the door for normalizing child sexualization, which is a bigger issue than sad pedophiles. Loli is pedophilia. Full stop.
@@cyprus9624 provide one reliable source. That’s like saying slasher films normalize murder.
@@cyprus9624 The topic is not even about loli, it's about a CSA survivor using Invader Zim as a gateway to cope, a cartoon.
Even if it was what you mentioned, it's Schediaphilia, cartoons are schediaphilia. Doing anything in cartoons/fiction and keeping it in fiction isn't normalizing anything in real life.
@@cyprus9624 bro you are saying this on a video about a guy that was charged for having CSEM (which btw features REAL CHILDREN) on his computer and your going to say the drawings from a coping CSA vicitm who had her entire life ruined by someone that was hiding way worse stuff then she was, are the worst people? i think thats incredibly disrespectful to ang
@@ilikepointlessinternetargument provide one reliable source that they don’t. You can’t because you can’t find any reliable studies in either direction that violent games do or don’t affect crime. However, there are studies that show people who play violent games exhibit more aggressive behavior. It’s also intuitively obvious to anyone who isn’t a closeted pedo that media can imprint on people in negative ways that affect behavior. I think it’s worse in the case of loli because it’s easier to go out and groom vulnerable children than it is to go out and commit violent crimes.
This is a reminder not to dehumanize terrible people. Sometimes it's the awkward unattractive guy, and people finally get an excuse to rag on him, meanwhile your friend who has a similar beard feels ashamed and hurt that you call that guy ugly. Sometimes it's Nicole who is your 22 year old babysitter who is your best friend's niece, and how could she do something so awful? She is so pretty and nice and smart and talented and no one could have guessed she would touch your 5 year old son.
Don't call p3dophiles monsters. They are humans. They don't all look like some weird nasty nerdy guy.
When you think of people doing awful things as monsters, or sub-human, or whatever you want to say, it makes you suspect other real culprits less. Because you know them, because they're so nice, because they're family, your neighbor, your pastor, whatever. What, Jimbob nextdoor? No! Billy's English teacher? No! The daycare grandma down the street? No! How could it be?!
Well, it's because you view people who do bad things as "evil irredeemable monsters" instead of "human being capable of anything."
No. Predators ARE subhuman.
@@SprinkledFox no, they're not. they're human beings. don't be so shocked when it's someone you know, someone you stood up for, because THEY couldn't possibly be a monster!
my english teacher in freshman year highschool was 36 and getting bjs from 16 year olds. he was funny, he was cool, he was attractive, he was good at his job, he doubled as a football coach, people liked him, he had a lovely wife, and he had just had his first child, an infant daughter. then he lost his job, his marriage, his family, and his reputation, all because he decided to be disgusting.
i had hugged that man on several occasions, laughed with him after class, and thought he was attractive. come to find out after that summer why he wasn't back. well, i was shocked. now i know not to be.
Someone needs to check your hard drive ASAP
@@Star_Rattler your teacher was subhuman. A waste of oxygen. There's nothing more I can say.
I actually agree with this, it's deadass not saying "oh don't call pedos sub human cause they deserve forgiveness" it's literally saying "people are capable of pedophilia, cry about it". This comment is straight up not trying to justify pedophilia it's trying to say "you can't lump people from one category into child predator land just cause someone happens to be unfavored by the gene pool". It's literally a "don't pretend that this person was a facade *YOU* fell for and stop projecting your insecurities and admit you got tricked".
Does this sound harsh? Good.
Funny seeing Saberspark failing to see the difference between fictional content vs an actual child predator when he himself is a furry.
Next time someone is outed as a zoophile should we say that Saberspark is just as bad as them?
I think we should lol.
@@UltraEpicLeader10020That would be funny lol
I generally like your coverage but I gotta disagree with the weird way you cast doubt on shota or just any uncomfortable types of art even sexual art as being possible therapy. As a csa survivor myself it can absolutely be healthy and helpful to use art therapy in this way. Please don't give the impression that this isn't true
Immediately shook my head at the part too hearing it, was disappointed on that uneducated take he had.
fan fic for trauma can work the same way.
@@invaderhorizongreen8168 for some ppl absolutely. A bunch of different types of art and expressions can be helpful
Anytime someone starts acting like they're morally superior to shota or lolicon for anything, I immediately am suspicious if they're holding skeletons in the closet because we've seen a very often seen pattern of them in fact, being into something much worse
Someone should be able to explore dark fiction / art regardless of trauma or not as long as its tagged properly (as Ang did).
Cant believe Saber would claim that art therapy isnt valid... I hope he educates himself more and amends the video. This is very disappointing.
Something that I believe should be more emphasized is that there is an objective difference between lolicon/shotacon and real CP. That difference being one of them doesn't involve actual children. I don't like lolis, I don't like Shotas, I'm not into that stuff. However I would not consider somebody who is into that stuff a danger to society, at least not just for liking it, other factors would have to come into play before I make that judgement call. Kyle's employee made sure to never involve real children, Kyle explicitly went after real children. He is a scumbag through and through.
Yea that's fair
The other point is that loli isn't about "child" characters. It's a body type, you can have a character like Tatsumaki or Rebecca and they'd be lolis because of their design.
Every time people put the two in the same severity, it goes to show how people have NO IDEA how truly vile and horrible actual CSA is. As a victim, I can safely say people would sing a VERY different tune if they were to be exposed to it (like stumbling upon it accidentally, most likely), which is something I wouldn't wish upon anyone, not even my worst enemy. That stuff scars you for life.
You know what the worst part of it was.
He was a blatant copyer/tracer. And he'd actively sick his audience on people.
I know a friend who was in the industry who'd draw something, and Kyle would draw something suspiciously similar to it, and then sick his audience on them. He's destroyed SO MANY careers of up and coming animators who'd he'd actively defamed and destroyed, especially if they had differing opinions to him.
And the worst part about it, the many high profile people who supported him and blindly followed his accusations, are going to just sweep all the damage they Enabled him to do under the rug, as if they weren't part of the destruction. All the people who were such huge fans of him who'd believe the various false accusations HE made and just taking him for his word, are just going to turn around and think they are going to not catch any flack for supporting him... and they are just going to go off scott free.
So he was like Linkarrocks then? Wow, just wow.
@@ExtremeWreck LIVING UP TO HIS IDOL AFTER ALL HAHAHA
@@cerberusmutt4252 Pretty much. I think there exists a saying for something as specific as this.
I think the worst part is all the victims having to go through what they did actually
Well it's easy to see that magiswords characters are copy of the Slayers anime
Still blows my mind that you legit tried to "both sides are equally wrong" this whole fiasco. An actual sicko who owned terabytes of actual illegal material that involved harming actual kids vs someone who drew Zim fucking Dib... And you say each is just as bad as the other and downplay the fact that someone had their career ruined by an actual predator over drawings of cartoon characters on a private account.
Respectfully, your description of hashing to find CSEM is neither accurate or clear. Hashes are computed with files, because we need a quick way to check if two files are the same. Making a hash is like inserting a computer file into a math problem and getting a solution that is unique to every file, even if the file looks similar. If your answer (hash) to matches an old one, it means the files are identical. This is how cloud accounts like Google Drive or Adobe Creative Cloud check massive amounts of data for CSEM without a human being looking at every file. What happened is some of Kyle's photos had hashes that match already known CSEM photos, and that is cause to investigate further.
The problem with those signature-based methods is that images and videos can also be 'slightly' (or significantly) altered on an imperceptible level to have a completely different hash sum than what they're altered from - it's the same problem with how polymorphic/metamorphic malware interacts with (static, signature-based) anti-malware protection.
I figure for at least some of the more sophisticated PDFs, you still need a human + computer vision to identify what is CSAM and what isn't, and it certainly won't help against stuff that is (pre-)encrypted (then again, not much can).
@@lurkeythelurker9898 It's not catching all of them, but fact is that most are too stupid and clueless to think to obfuscate their contraband that way, which means that it does still help catch a lot, like Carozza.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine This is what I was going to say, but nicer. Rip and tear, brother.
@@lurkeythelurker9898 The important thing is that it's not going to find false positives either. Remember the meme of feeding images to PornOrNot and posting the results? Imagine if Google had some kind of bot like that in charge of deciding who does and doesn't deserve to get arrested for one of the top five most heinous crimes in existence.
@@stevethepocket Can't argue with that one, but still, leaving AI to do the dirty work (especially now) is probably not all that uncommon. If Google has already (or enacted in the future plans to) put forth a CV-enabled bot for detecting CSAM, it would not surprise me at all, especially as that kind of work done manually (at least I've heard) tends to invoke high turnover.
Then again, such a bot would require insane amounts of training data, and you can bet the only ones with a "license" to hoard that data are limited to three-letter agencies.
I think calling invader zim drawings just as bad as Kyle having over 500+ images of csem is... Definetely something
One's a fictional cartoon character and the other are actual real world children
@@MASTEROFEVIL So. what.
Drawings can be harmed so we gotta blow that out of proportion first before we ever consider real children being involved/ j
A lot of something. And people still have the audacity to defend him for it.
@@Feliciathedoll to put it simple to make cp you have to well, ABUSE A CHILD AND FILM IT.
thats why having a copy of these things already ends you.
Fun Fact, Dtoons has privated the collab he did with Kyle for the “Conroy Cat” series. If you look up Conroy Cat Spatula, you can find an archive and WIP of the animation
Context to the Animation for the unaware: DToons does a cartoon parody series where the creator’s 3 OCs based on various eras of cartoons mess around with items from across different media. This episode was based on the mechanical spatula SpongeBob gets in Help Wanted. As stated above, this was a Collab with Kyle
I hate that people have to bury their own work just because bad people were involved. This guy being a piece of shit doesn't make the work of others suddenly go away.
@@ScooterinAB it especially sucks because it was one of their most popular videos according to the “Most Popular Videos” playlist DToons put it in
😊😊
Justice for Ang.
Saber, if you're uncomfortable with the topic or afraid that ppl are gonna judge you unless you make a hard stance against the BadWrongEvil Drawings then you rly just shouldn't have brought it up.
Just focus on the victims as victims instead of the bs justifications made up to harass them.
This whole war on loli was stupid to begin with, what exactly are fighting for? The rights of fictional children that don’t exist?
For brownie points online, that's why people always say loli is bad (the same people who happen to be real pedos)
@@ChenEpicGray exactly that’s what it’s always been
Not for nothing but I don't think drawing zadr is comparable to having heaps of downloads of irl csem, that's just me tho tbh
I think throwing shade at Ang is literally the issue. Predators like Kyle hide via shitting on artists who use art for cope or harm reduction. Ang has never hurt anyone with their art, not a single person, but they lost so much because of an ACTUAL CSEM collector. Almost every single person I've seen who is an artist be outed as a CSEM collector or groom'er has once spouted "anti" / censorship ideals and hate mongering towards "proshippers" / artists who are traumatized and use it to cope. And that's exactly how they get away with it. They have something to hide, and they act like the bigger person upfront to hide their more heinous actions. Its compensation, and it's really tiring to see people act like these 2 things are on the same level at all.
Not only is your overly disgusted reaction about lolisho preluding talking about Ang entirely unnecessary, but extremely disrespectful. You're free to have your opinions; nobody is here to try to change your mind or whatever (even if it's a little ironic coming from the resident furry). However, this just shows that your mindset is just the same as those who harassed Ang for drawing cartoon NSFW. Like Kyle. They had their entire life ruined over drawings, and Kyle exploited and abused REAL people. You are treating this situation no differently than those who act like what Ang did and what Kyle did are even remotely comparable.
Please reconsider your priorities.
The scary thing is how close these people are to anything children related.
Says the guy who defends l0lis
sez u lil bro
Nice comment bot
they do it on purpose
yeah people like just_a_turtle and kyle carrozza should stay away from children
Of course he was outspoken against lolicon/shotacon. Ironically, in discourse surrounding it, lots of outspoken opponents have later been revealde to be actual pdf files. Not so much the people who actually enjoy that sort of fiction.
never forget Dr. Pizza
kyle is a bigger and worse pdf, but lmao if you get your rocks off to the idea of having *** with children you are still a pdf. Not as bad as one that engages in the real act but you are still a pdf. Children aint attractive, fictional or otherwise, unless theres something wrong with you. The amount of cope in this comment is hilarious, furthers the idea that people obsessed with childrens media are weird asf
do they do it to make themselves look less suspicious?
@@morganicsmoothie964 yup, they wanna protect themselves from being legit weirdos
@@morganicsmoothie964 Easy virtue signal points, and/or it makes them feel better about themselves. Like a wealthy person donating to child protection agencies only to be outed as a p-dop-ile themselves. I'm reminded of a case where a guy was ranting about s-xy figures of Pyra and Mythra from Xenoblade Chronicles 2, making points about feminism and whatnot, only to be outed as a convicted child [toucher]. He was on the registry, and the account used his real name and face (likely for legal reasons), yet for some reason he thought no one would find that out.
Unironically I think you're being very disrespectful not just to Kyle's victims but disrespectful to other survivors of CSA that uses fiction as well to cope, a very safe and contained mental sandbox of which every fiction known to man stems from. If you're going to make a video sensationalizing this horrific situation then at the very least don't let your own personal subjective disgust over cartoon pornography poison your attempt at conveying it by painting fiction as a whole as some Big Bad here.
You and other people who frame fiction in such an absurd way need to understand that cartoon and fictive porn is on an entirely different dimension than that of real abuse that CSA survivors go through. This kind of stigmatization being further perpetuated never fail to make survivors feel further isolated and shunned for having been "tainted" by such abuse, not even being given the grace to process it safely in safe and endorsed ways that matters to them simply because other people find it gross and distasteful.
Art should comfort the disturbed and disturb the comfortable.
This is beyond disgraceful of you and a massive, irresponsible blunder on your end. Try to be better next time, and consider either publicly approaching these subject matters with more tact or don't do it at all. This is a personal gripe of mine, but I do not appreciate the careless thumbnail and title of this video being so inherently clickbaity. It feels as though you are making a complete mockery of his victims and other abuse survivors as a whole.
Exactly my thoughts. This “Both sides are wrong,” narrative from him is fucked up. One was a victim and drew FICTIONAL content and the other actually had CSEM on him. There is no comparison. If Saber doesn’t like lol/shot fine, but it is insulting to all the victims of actual predators that they’re doing something wrong coping. This video is sick.
>victim bames Ang.
>shrugs off the idea of victims using problematic fiction to cope with trauma.
>comparing Invader Zim porn to possessing CSAM and saying “these are equally bad”.
Saberspark fell off bad, like this shit is SCUMMY scummy
Ah yes because he was undereducated on trauma art makes him fall off lmao people do make genuine mistakes you know?
@SleepySyd the information has been online for a while, so if he can do research on kyle and the situation, why cant he educate himself on that at the same time without acting in disgust torwards what he doesnt know? Even when people have told him multiple times on here and other platforms he still hasnt and it's been all over Twitter and actual psychology research has proven it.
He needs to do better, and we need to stop being ok with victim blaming when we are uncomfortable with things we can not fully grasp. It's how a lot of misinformation spread and prejudice builds.
I'm genuinely so upset. I was a victim of CSA. Seeing people say how others should deal with their trauma makes me ill
Saberspark's comments here have made me lose all respect for him. It's very unlikely he's ever getting it back. He shouldn't have thrown the victim under the bus.
bames?
Also the third one is definitely a strawman.
therapist recommend drawing their trauma to cope, the account was private and not connected to the original account. I don´t get why that was a problem
sure it´s disturbing and I think it´s weird, then I remember how I also cope with different forms of art that can be disturbing to others as well.
and the fact Ang was blacklisted BECAUSE of Kyle is really sad, apparently they are couch surfing because they lost any form of medica coverage.
one thing I will say is that I don´t believe people did not know he was a creep, you don´t have public talks about how someone is a creep and then never knowing it happened.
edit: hey Saber why are there tweets of you being friends with an alleged groomer????
Maybe because it wasn't private and it was connected to the original account lol
Bro Literally said it was private @firstlast9855
@@firstlast9855It wasnt tho lmfao
No, I'm sorry but this is just not right
It being private or public is not the issue, the issue is someone drawing children in sexualized positions being involved with children's entertainment
I do not care that it's drawn, and based solely on the knowledge of them drawing loli/shota/whatever, it sounds like Angela could've been a predator themselves
Like if you draw children fucking, you just shouldn't work in anything related to children, and there is ZERO chance a therapist recommended they draw sexualized children and then POST IT ONLINE, like especially ONLINE!! There was no need to post it online if this was a legitimate form of therapy??!! Like if a therapist recommends you write letters to calm yourself down, you don't fucking send the letter out or post it anywhere
Nope, I don’t care - drawing underage cartoon porn and posting online as therapy? Bullshit. That’s disgusting
What he did to Ang Vonda and his weaponization of the 'anti' and q movements to assist in that is not only wrong, he should be punished and so should everyone who sided with him.
Justice for Ang.
Kyle deserves to rot in prison.
Agreed. One of those who ruined her life is now getting his due justice but it was because of his projection!
I'm glad other people are pointing out that you were absolutely wrong in speculating that another person's artwork being their therapeutic outlet because you didn't research it. To try to make the victim out as something "icky" is just terrible in itself.
Sure, YOU don't understand why the person's artwork may be therapeutic (ignoring the fact you side-eyed it as if that was some kind of excuse when it IS in fact a method for exposure therapy), but "both sides-ing it" was a terrible approach when Kyle was found to have 600 images involving REAL children, something totally different from Ang's own private artwork revolving fictional characters.
Phenomenal video on this harsh topic, had no idea it went this deep but was very informed. Also 49:33 That entire discussion about putting people on Pedestals was nothing but facts & brought up many very valid points. I understand why it happens but its not fair to certain people cause we're all just human. My friends and I were talking about Keanu Reeves & how he is universally beloved but also put on such a High pedestal that if he ever hypothetically has a bad day & loses his temper many people would be like "Oh no I guess he wasnt as perfect as we thought" No one is perfect, & perfection means there is no room for growth & improvement, you just hit a ceiling you're perpetually stuck at. But overall really enjoyed this video.
Jaxblade? 😲
@@plebianmarsh2373 yeah me & Saber have been close friends since 2012 lolll
Very disappointed in you. Angela was a victim of Kyle, her drawing loli or whatever anime bullshit you terminally online weirdos decided is "morally incorrect" doesn't make her a bad person and certaintly doesn't make her any less of a victim.
It's funny how he only answers who is agreeing with him, but not the actual victims recommending texts and books by psychologists that prove his statement is wrong and bullshit
@@shinyboi6811 That's cause he doesn't give a shit about victims
There's a difference between making that art for yourself and posting it online for anyone to see
@Gugunet26 He simply may just be uninformed? You're making claims that he doesn't care about victims but he may just be uneducated
@@SleepySyd If he's not educated enough on the subject, he shouldn't have made a video about it
Look I'm no fan of rule 34 and all but blacklisting someone just for letting out some steam in the form of their own art therapy because they are a SA survivor while this dude had actual CP is something and I can't even find the words the say.
I hate that lollicon has become public parlance nowadays; because now whenever someone gets called out online for being a p*do I have to thing "Okay are they an actual p*do or do they just like cartoons that make you uncomfortable?" And this is the only genre of fiction where no one seems to be able to understand that difference. Like if someone is a fan of dexter or hannibal no one is giving them the side eye like they're going to take a meat cleaver to the next passerby.
Exactly lmao. Now when people see “cp” I have to wonder “do they mean actual cp, or just drawings they don’t like?”
It's sad that we're getting to a point where it'll probably be easier to convince people by having them come across the real thing than to sit down and have a civil discussion about the difference between fiction and reality. I wouldn't wish it upon anyone, especially as a victim, but people are stubborn.
@@LucasRCD Yeah I've seen a lot of really bad takes about the whole thing too. The pro vs anti ship bs doesn't help either. I don't know how that even got to be a thing since as far as I've been able to tell "pro ship" is actually more like "neutral ship". Like you're not actively supporting anything you just don't obsess over what other people do with fictional characters? What a mess.
Let's be honest with ourselves chat...the whole "lolicon is bad" crowd that have gotten exposed for owning legitimate CSAM has happened too many times for it to be a coincidence anymore.
I mean, when you break it down...this whole moral panic is really just weird rule 34 art. It has always existed and it will always exist with Misty from Pokemon practically being the poster girl for r34. That is not to say however that it isn't weird. It most definitely is weird and morally questionable. (And yes i myself included find the art gross.)
But lets be real for a second. Would you really be willing to have an artists or someone looking at rule 34 put in the same level of it being criminal activity for JUST drawings? despite the fact Chris Hansen himself has said that while the art is tasteless, it does nothing for his work ethic meaning that waffling about it is useless compared to oh i don't know...REAL exploitation of real children????? I don't know fellas. Call it a hunch but me thinks one is just weird while the other is legitimately a problem that should be reported to the police.
more people need to see this comment
People really don't give a single fuck about real children or victims....