I teach at a university in China and I have definitely gone beyond the limits she asserts in terms of politics and ideological topics in my classes. Still got a job teaching here. Just saying.
The other fact is the School of Occupation Apartheid Studies is a university to train colonial officers, surely she cant have a warped world view then?
@@davidbouchard8963 She covered some things well but there was no real insight into how Chinese people feel or behave. Also anybody could read Xi Jinping's book and published articles etc and say what she said, so nothing special. She never mentioned Xi's time abroad in the USA or his visit to my home country Ireland years ago.
It’s laughable! US never upholds any value or laws, except only self ABSOLUTELY INTEREST and ABSOLUTE SECURITY at the cost of others’ lost and insecurity. US creates rules for others to follow, and break the rules it created, US has no rule but ZERO SUM rule.
Sorry, she completely lost me discussing EVs. China has not succeeded by copying Tesla, Tesla succeeded because Chinese technology (particularly CATL) and the Chinese market saved the company from failure.. She knows virtually nothing about the development on EVs in China and is going off the rails to pontificate on something she clearly has no expertise on. "I don't have the detail". Indeed. Do you know BYD is a battery supplier to Tesla? That BYD and CATLwere manufacturing batteries before Tesla existed? That China started EV research initiatives more than 20 years ago? Apparently not, maybe Xi was blocking your view.
@@NotBryewell the OP said she lost him at 1h into the video. And I don’t know exactly about Tesla, but despite having cutting edge innovation since some time China def also has a long history of inviting western companies and copying there tech, design and manufacturing skills - which I don’t even really blame them for and we’re way beyond the stereotype of China only making cheap copy cats
@@jolima there is copy mimick and steal in every frikkin business. Apple is stealing tons from samsung. intell from nvidia, google from microsoft etc etc. it never was specifically only china. Thats how far brainwarped u have been. Its called business. China was just more competitive hence more companies coming to mimick u.
I’m not an expert or particularly knowledgeable about the subject of EVs. However, her assertion that Tesla created the EV manufacturing boom in China sounded extremely suspicious to me.
@@jolima I would definitely agree with regards to Apple for example. However I personally don’t see that being the case with Tesla. I think technology and innovation has moved on a lot faster in China than many of us in the west have been led to believe.
I think she definitely hit some points about Xi's ideology, Leninism and his preference on open market, but she definitely didn't understand how economy works and how western capitalism, especially US, which see China as a threat to US hegemony, and what was happened to JackMa.
“Liberal “ Hong Konger …. My eyes are rolling so hard that they rolled out of my eyes , down the hallway and onto the Great Wall of China and ever and ever and ever onwards forever ….
So I’m reading a lot of negative comments in this comment section. The main criticism of this interview is that it is heavily biased against China, and this social scientist is quite outdated in her analysis. Please Novara media, could we invite more scholars and intellectuals and other relevant people to discuss China from different perspectives? China is growing in importance on the world stage, and we have already entered a multipolar world in which China is a global superpower. I think it’s really important that we get a more accurate understanding of the reality of China. In particular, I’d like to see more discussion and accurate information on the treatment of the Uighur and other ethnic groups in China. Thanks for all your hard work Novara Media team 😊
frankly, many of the comments are knee jerk bandwagon jumpers. the interview was fairly clear headed, never really critical though honest about Xi's authoritarian ideals. I found her almost admiring of Xi, certainly never browbeating or judgemental.
@@Thomas...191 Wild Swans was published in 1991. It has no relevance to modern China. The author was also responsible for a fantasy demonisation of Chairman Mao, which received wide publicity in the West but was heavily criticised by academics with actual knowledge of the era. So she might not be the best person to ask.
Very interesting discussion. The concept of 'assimilating' people into party culture probably shouldn't seem so alien to us in the UK. People on the far right trying bash China over their treatment of a Muslim minority group is simply laughable when they're constantly winging about about how certain ethnic minorities in the UK don't respect our culture and don't intigrate properly 🤔
This narrative that the 2012 anti-corruption campaign was carried out purely on the ground of political persecution is objectively false and the fact that she let completely out of the discussion the real corruption problems that were spreading in the CPC shows that she is too biased to be taken as a serious researcher.
不幸的是，这就是为什么她的观点在西方如此受到尊重，因为它为西方政治评论员提供了一个机会之窗，让他们可以在对话中融入他们的西方叙事。 This is unfortunately why her view is given so much respect in the west, as it allows western political commentators the window of opportunity to sneak into the conversation their western narrative.
Eight hundred million people were taken out of poverty. - I'd say that was pretty successful. The longer you listen to Olivia Cheung, the more you realise that this is subtle propaganda on behalf of the West, against The communist Party of China. (Not - The Chinese Communist Party - says a lot - as she calls it) She also fails to talk about the political system at local level, in which people do vote, and have a choice between eight political movements. Novara Media should also attempt to get a more balanced view on China's economy. Interviewing someone like Professor Jeffrey Sachs, (the world renowned US economist) to talk about the future of China's economic potential, would be a good step. It would be interesting to see if he agrees with Olivia Cheung's assessment,, or whether ha has a somewhat different opinion.
Out of "extreme poverty", as defined by the UN if I remember correctly ,as the Chinese say themselves, they know they still have a ways to go to get them completely out of poverty, I forget if it was hundreds or thousands of party members that died living out in the widespread and often remote villages working on this anti-poverty project, over 3 million party members participated in the field.
800 million were taken out of extreme poverty after the CCP created the poverty to begin with. Tens of millions of people starved to death under Mao's rule. The CCP gave up on doing communism and returned to the market system in the 1980s. They opened up to the west, and that is what made China a turnaround success.
Way better than usual. The beauty of economic success is that even your adversaries have to account for it. She never once accused China of genocide (which can't be said for the competition).
She's informative but clearly an Overseas Chinese with a Westernized slant--most obvious in her rejection of the obvious antagonism of the West in its containment attempts. Also, I live in a small town in "poor" Anhui province--my apartment overlooks farming villages--and the townsfolk are vocally and enthusiastically appreciative of *material* fruits from the anti-poverty campaign, especially the creation of new roads connecting all the farming villages to the cities and highways; 10 years ago they were doomed to dirt roads impassable with mud in the rainy season. She's not wrong about the popular attitude toward Xi Jinping Thought, which elicits hints of annoyance and skepticism, and toward nationalism, which again is easy to understand with the daily Western provocations and revelations of countless CIA operations aimed at smearing China (the shocking CIA disinformation campaign reported by Reuters recently to discredit the free and non-mRNA Covid vaccines it was giving to poor countries, while the West refused to share). How anybody can claim Western aggression is a "conspiratorial re-writing of history" in 2024 needs to get out of the libraries more. The mask is cosmically off for the West.
No one in China thinks any program is perfect and will accomplish miracles. But motivating change needs priming the pump. Was all poverty solved in 4 years? Of course not. Was it raised on the agenda and addressed by policy to get change started? Yes. I invite Olivia Cheung to visit my wife's home village in rural Anhui to ask people is things are on the right track and if their lives have improved. I'm pretty sure most will be positive. 100% ? No. But most.
You are too sensitive- she is not saying nothing improves; but just as Xi‘s thinking might be non-dualistic, so is hers: just because some things are working out well doesn’t mean there’s nothing to criticise. If you can’t handle criticism, it’s a sign of weakness and you can’t grow
@@jolima If you can’t handle criticism of Cheung’s criticism and start using ad hominem attacks like “you’re too sensitive”and “it’s a sign of weakness and you can’t grow”, I wonder who’s the one that’s actually overly sensitive here that’s showing «signs of weakness» and «can’t grow». Their argument was a perfectly sensible criticism of Olivia Cheung’s criticism of PRC. No overreaction here!
@@jorgi6335 You don’t sound like you handle criticism of the guest well, and start using words of personal attack “you are too sensitive.” The problem with her is she is very generous on giving her criticisms, yet stingy on acknowledging credit where credit is due, that’s why her criticism is not credible.
@@lavendereucalyptus3225 okay, maybe a misunderstanding here. I was answering the responder to the main comment. When I said «you har too sensitive» I was quoting the one I was answering, by the very same reason you quoted my quoting of him/her - because it’s an illegitimate ad hominem attack. I agree to the original comments criticism of Olivia Cheung, and the same did you, if I understand your comment correctly..?
The last 3rd of the interview went downhill. Seriously, China is progressing because the society and people are working hard, not because Western societies "let them". Please Ms Cheung, visit me in China and lets chat, I even know some Cantonese from the decade I lived on HK.. [sigh] another BN(O) intellectual, Cheung, your field research is 10 years out of date. When was the last time you lived in China and for how long? And how long have you worked in the IC Industry here (I do, actually).
@@unreliablenarrator6649 It doesn’t matter if she has lived in China or not, if she decided to be an ideologue bigot, she will be, no matter how long and how extensive her experience has with China.
I tried reading the book she wrote and couldn't shake the Frankfurt School vibes. Many socialist terms were misdefined, either carelessly or deliberately. Even by the end of this video she defines United Front as "divide and conquer".
There's no need for Xi to coerce the people through propaganda - the progress of China is very evident through the incredible infrastructure, which has opened up markets within the country for many rural areas, fuelling the obvious increase in personal wealth and living standards. Effectively, the government has got things done in a tangible, obvious and dynamic way, positively effecting people's wellbeing, outlook and optimism.
My big take away from this interview is that China is more like the West than we choose to believe. The two big differences being 1. thanks to Democracy with American characteristics the Rich can legally buy privilege via lobbying where as in China capital accumulation does not automatically equal political power. 2. China seems to pay lip service to the poor where we in the West have all but forgot about the poor as seen in the growing homelessness.
China play lip service to the poor? China lifted 800 million of its people from poverty, which is recognized by the world including the West! Why people in the West seem don't use brains to think and don't use facts to speak?
Another important difference is you can't say anything negative about Mao or Xi in China. Whereas I can say that Churchill and Netanyahu committed genocide.
My main issue with this interview is not necessarily the content itself but, I’ve been hearing that China is on the brink of collapse for years now, and it has never happened. So these problems that she’s talking about that China is going to have to face soon… I just have a hard time seeing it as something different from also those wrong predictions I keep reading. Also, America not wanting China to succeed is not a conspiracy theory. They definitely want to remain on top as the largest economic superpower. I found that interaction a bit weird.
According to western experts, China has been on the brink of collapse for decades. It's a joke at this point. And I agree, definitely not a conspiracy theory.
When a guest uses, without blinking, words like “coercion” “rule” etc you know what kind of interview it’s going to be. Why taking down a corrupt elder is “forcing someone to go along with him or else”? Logic? Was he not corrupt? Is this person an intellectual or an ideologue?
yes theres a lot of use of the word 'indoctrination' when its just being 'influenced by' or 'learning from'.. she definitely seems to have biases against instead of seeming neutrally fact finding
In many cases, the officials charged and convicted may have actually been guilty of corruption. However, the whole anti-corruption purge is (and has been) used to coerce adherence to the Xi line. The lack of transparency in the legal system makes it difficult to tell whether specific cases are (or have been) primarily motivated by the aim of supporting Xi's power over the party (and, specifically, surpressing dissent), or whether they are (or have been) primarily focused on countering economic injustice
I don't entirely disagree. Although her argument as to why it was coercive was very clear. 1. No top level leader has been purged or taken down since the 1990s - especially after they retired. 2. Xi took down Zhao after he had retired 3. (Implicit point: Zhao was not significantly more corrupt than other top level leaders of the time period) 4. Therefore Xi did this for political reasons not ethical reasons. Hence it's a form of coercion and a purge to consolidate his power. That's a reasonable take assuming those premises are correct. The main issue is we don't know if they are or aren't. Most of us will have no way of knowing.v
Another “China expert” from Hongkong. According to them, Anti-corruption is bad, Anti-poverty is also bad. And the host agrees with her and this channel call themself leftist. What a joke.
Yeah it really is amazing.. Meanwhile the European Union just put a toll on Chinese electric car's because China actually takes climate change seriously and invest tax revenue into green change. Why you may ask? Because the European car industry is very rich and influential. They're more concerned about their own greed than out children's future. We should have laws preventing corruption, but we don't..
Why, yes, a lot of China experts hail from Hong Kong, or are mainland Chinese in exile, because they’re the only ones free to speak their mind about the CCP regime and give it the criticism it deserves. It’s China apologists like yourself that make a laughingstock of the left
C.P.C. (*NOT* C.C.P.)! When will you people learn to stop denigrating countries by deliberately misspelling the names of things. Using the acronym C.C.P. merely shows you up as a western propagandist.
let me guess...from she is from HK, 90% bashing China and 10% bordering on the neutral line. Never lived in Mainland China for longer than 5 years to actually see progress or get people's intentions. also, the interviewer agreeing with her on all things.
@Chinese Trolls: you are not doing your country a favour in flooding the comment section - this rather back fires. Yes this is impart a rather critical interview, but it is so much more differentiated then anything western viewers get to see in mainstream media and the host is again and again showing his admiration for China and even for your supreme leader. If you can’t handle any honest criticism, it’s rather a sign of weakness and will hinder you from growing (I believe this is the biggest threat to chinas success - next to demography). So tune down the boring propaganda - everybody can immediately identify it as such just from the way you write (since it’s full of grammar mistakes I assume it’s still ppl writing, but maybe your AI is pretty bad - or pretty good at pretending)
remember dudes, 1.6billion budget at work. 1.6 billion scam budget hard at work. just compare both countries for the last 10 years, its achievements. Do the same for the last 20 years. Last 30 years, last 40 years, last 50 years. Enough said.
@@JaceWD Many people would sell out for money, look at US Congress and politicians, they are okay to be complicit with G cide! Many human are easily corrupt.
The anti-poverty campaign is for “extreme poverty” which is the lowest level of poverty. I don’t know why she’s talking about other poor people not being in this category is a problem. And yes “common prosperity” program is intended for all - is the next program.
That she cannot even get a simple fact correct, that Jack Ma's company was shut down due to Ant Financial trying to act as a banking institution without regulation, tells me that many of her other statements are questionable at best.
@@aaronbastani1399 deleting comments? As stated in the deleted comment, CCP is a term used by mainstream media (often racist and always biased). It's use shows Novara is not really independent, but happy to parot mainstream talking points. Neutral to positive sources will use the correct "CPC".
Something can be good and still used to consolidate power, eg. Labours attack on anti-semitism was used by the Starmer faction to clear out the left of the party
@@rudolfst3367 lmao yeah? What is sane about a paranoid fear of non-capitalist society? Chinese cities look like they’re living 100 or more years in the future.
China isn’t about Xi. Martin Jacques calls China a civilisation state (longest continual nation on earth, they were part colonised, but not fully). Kishore Mahbubani says this is not the Chinese Communist Party, but a 5000yr old China. China is the only place on earth that’s come back more than once to global prominence. The next decade will b v interesting between USA and China. I hope you get Kishore Mahbubani on here next or Keyu Jin!
How can you say China had global prominence when for most of its history it had almost zero influence over North America, South America, and Australia. This is the first time in 5000 years of history that China has had global prominence.
@@shanewilson2484 Shane Wilson = ignorance + arrogance (at it's finest). Here's a remedy: Has China Won - Kishore Mahbubani When China Rules the World = Martin Jacques Silk Roads 1&2 - Peter Frankopan Deng Xiaoping - Ezra Vogel Btw- look up all these scholars too. If reading hurts your brain, you can catch The story of Zheng He by William Dalrymple, he sailed way before Columbus, with fleets 10x the size. The difference is, he didn't colonize, which is clearly something you admire....
The comment section = ignorance + arrogance (at it's finest). Here's a remedy: Has China Won - Kishore Mahbubani When China Rules the World = Martin Jacques Silk Roads 1&2 - Peter Frankopan Deng Xiaoping - Ezra Vogel Btw- look up all these scholars too. If reading hurrts your brain, you can catch The story of Zheng He by William Dalrymple, he sailed way before Columbus, with fleets 10x the size. The difference is, he didn't colonize...
Please, Aaron, invite Olivia Cheng to visit Xinjiang with you. You can travel around, meet people in rural and urban areas, and see how they live, then you can visit Afghanistan to see how people live after getting gifted democracy and development from the USA & NATO, then go to Gaza to see how people live after being gifted a small strip of land by the British, and living under the benevolent guidance by Israel. Again, I seriously doubt Ms Cheng has every been in the field and is just parroting the narrative of Western governments and media. Seek truth from facts.
you just gotta see the reality of where they come from, theres elements of metropolitan/middle class perspectives on socialist causes instead of deep 'anti-imperialist' perspective, they have flaws but nothing can be exactly how you want or how you think it should be.. there isnt any other british left platform as large as this (except for print like morning star etc) that even talks positively about China.
Novara are funded by the Rosa Luxemberg Foundation, which is majority funded by the German government (they received 87 million euros from them last year)
@@scotthegarty4729 Exactly! They are the most self racist people, bought and paid for by CIA NGO NED. Shame on them for trying to destroy HK in 2019 riot!
Cant even finish watching it, was hoping you guy would actually get someone on to tell us about how china really is, not just reheat old neo-lib cringe. You guys are supposed to be better than this!
How does anti-corruption drive equal purge - This can be understood if only your rivals are targetted, but your allies? Maybe he wants China to be less corrupt.
Two of recent defense chiefs were sacked, involved the corruption of rocket force procurement....Their prior promotions was recommended by Xi.... I don't know what purge she was talking about, obviously Anti-CPC is her thing.
As soon as she said "The Chinese Communist Party" instead of the Communist Party of China (which is its actual name), I knew what song she was gonna sing.
Its actual name is 中国共产党. You can translate it either way into English because Chinese doesn't have a way to distinguish between 'Chinese' and 'China' as English does. So they literally mean the same thing. Talk about grasping at straws...
Official Chinese media literally used CCP until a few years ago. He Yeduo's oath is a founding document of the Party, from 1931, it is headed with the letters CCP. You can google it. Recently they rebranded to CPC, so the obedient party drones have to rewrite history in their minds. Orwellian is overused but c'mon this is literally a scene out of 1984.
If you want quality material on China - The China Project is excellent. My absolute fave within the network is the China-Global South Project, followed closely by the Sinica podcast with Kaiser Kuo. There's much else there. Truly worth a vist and a scout around.
Olivia, do you know how the Brits would react if I want to start to teach "Shariah Laws" in Britain by teaching Muslims in UK Universities and Islamic institutions, how would the Labour or Conservatives govts., react?
@@ministry2627 when you interview a person you're actively giving them a platform, and he certainly wasn't pushing back against her assertions in his interview.
Talking about China and Ukraine. It does not take a Rhode scholar to understand that this war is driven and encouraged by the US, Yes US has done a lot in supporting the war not in the best interest of Ukraine, Lyinskie is not going to listen to anyone other than the US in this war . And what is this value base order again? This is the biggest question that US has to answer. Is the value base purely an US value where it choose to change the value to fit its own domination, we see that example very well with regarding Diego Garcia which was ruled by ICJ as part of Marcius, how did UK and US honoring the rule of an UN legal body? Also value how many times has the US stole oil from Venezuela or Iran on international sea and what sort of international value or rule based order allow this type of thuggeries. US and UK seem to believe they are entitled to change the rule and order that suits them and asking the other to obey the US order. The current 'rule base' order is not an order and the US is selective on what order they want to enforce and almost a certainty to ignore the order that that are not pleasing to them, China or Russia more or less doing the same. In this regard there is no way people around the world should believe that US or UK has higher moral ground than China or Russia.
1:23:50 “Xi Jing Ping is very narrow minded in the view that what China should do in the world”……so when a country doesn’t want to get involved with international conflicts when they don’t concern its people, it’s a good thing isn’t it? Why call it “narrow minded”?
There was a great series on CGTN, about Xi, covering his family roots and his political career. International surveys, that have been conducted by independent analysts, always put China close to the top as far as peoples approval of their government, and before you answer - oh, they're afraid to say otherwise, (which isn't the case) over ninety percent are optimistic about their future, unlike in the West.
I’m sure you would apply the exactly same level of credulity of those surveys also should good results in western countries. Oh wait, you’d be the first to bemoan ‘brainwashing’ and ‘the media’
The major takeaway is: Policies based on what *people* (not just their work or their companies) *need,* by actually being with them over time - continuously. Then, catering for what they may *want.* _Then_ for what can be achieved communally, and _finally_ accomplishing an international standing in trade and power. We in the “west” seem to do all the same things - but in the _reverse order_ after ca 1980. Wrong as I may be in the above, being an old fart, I’d say it hasn’t always been this way - before WE deregulated our monetary & financial system (thanks, Nixon 1971…). China didn’t make us do that…? 😊
indeed the final straw of weakening regulation happen with Clinton and Bush. and since those 2, there is no turning back. the slope is too steep. i have always wondered if 9/11 didn't happened, with GWB pay enough attention on the economy, because his relaxation policies were meant to give american a short term boost to deal with the grief of 9/11. but instead the system got hook on it and never retighten regulation until it imploded in 2007.
@@lagrangewei I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate on 9/11, the moon landing or any other such major event. What’s important is to understand macroeconomics, geopolitics or financialisation. These are huge powers within all our societies, but not sufficiently criticised by us - voters. E.g. the 2009-11 bank bailouts inflated housing way more than post 9/11 wars - across OECD. The numbers are openly available, but never points on a ballot? If / when corporate interests influence policies more than actual votes, we have a problem. Not with «the others», but with not talking about economic forces in our own politics. Conspiracies are not needed to observe this. 👍
Yes! Don't you know she is a Chinese intellectual? My yardstick is, if anyone starts saying CCP instead of CPC I do not take them seriously. If you unveiled what they have to say: it is Western propaganda against China.
The CCP introduced "CCP", not they use "CPC" to make it more difficult or confusing to search information souces about the party, because accurate information is their enemy.
The famine after the Great Leap Forward was exacerbated by Western refusals to sell or donate grain to China, fully cognizant of the lethal effects of this. Social scientists so often disappoint when they play historian.
Wow you Chinese trolls are getting so sensitive! The host again and again shows his admiration for China, and even for Xi - so much more differentiated then you would find in any mainstream media. But you can accept anything then 100% indoctrinated praise? That’s lame and not being able to handle differentiated criticism is a sign of weakness that will lead to more weakness in the long run.
Apart from 2012 until 1949, China has ALWAYS been led by Legalism, which is Solid Totalitarianism. China has ALWAYS been TOTALITARIAN apart for 37 years.
BYD innovated high quality at affordable price--it outsells Tesla worldwide now, not just in China. And China's EV battery sector dominates global markets. She's full of cope and denial.
@@submariner8970 Expect more, because US House just passed a budget of 1.6 billion dollars on Anti China bill! This is what US do when they are losing competition, they spend money on bashing their competitors, instead of improving themselves.
I read the comments. I have lived in China 15 years. I do not think I need to listen to this interview. It will be biased and inaccurate. I trust those commenting.
I read Novara + "CCP" instead of CPC which I should be suspicious and it seems like the comments confirms me there is no reason to watch this indeed.. 😂
Did a 15-minute scroll through the comments. Almost absolute unanimous denigration of the substance of the guest's points and attacks on her motives and character. It is very rare to find unanimity on ANYTHING on the internet, let alone on a RUclips channel hosting a lightning rod topic and guest. It's like any POV that isn't the absolute diametrical counter to Washington's interests is either incompetent or naive or malign. Feel amazingly lucky to live in a society where this level of cynical vitriol directed towards its government is not only allowed but promoted on its largest social media platform. Free speech in action, folks - or the bots are out in force, and there's nothing the NSA can do about it short of erecting its own version of China's Great Firewall.
The guest did great effort to do research. But if you go to several remote villages and do some field research, the poverty alleviation campaign is way better than the scenario that you do not do it. It is hugely difficult. But most of the goals are achieved and efforts are still ongoing. And China surely is far less democratic on election than the best. But on the point 事情商量着来, China is doing much better than the west. For example, the relocation of peasants in poverty alleviation campaign is not forced as imagined by many westerners. People actually can choose not to relocate. But the local government went great lengths on explaining and persuasion. Most people chose to relocate simply because their lives would be better. And China actually has almost zero interest in promoting China’s ways of governance. In Chinese culture, people do not expect other countries will be able to learn Chinese way, as each country has its unique conditions. And it is the key that every country to seek its own way of development. China is more than happy to provide assistance in things like infrastructure, which will be a good support for such kind of seek.
I would be more careful with using the term 'assimilation'. I think Olivia means assimilating to the dominant Han polity. In socio-political lingo, assimilation is used to describe the domination of the minority culture which I don't think the Chinese government is doing.
From my understanding of China's advance, Deng Xiaoping saved China from the abyss of poverty that the 'Gang of Four' were leading China to by their corruption. He made very significant re-organisation and modernising policies that directed the path, direction, and readyness to confront and cushion any future backlash from western hegemony against their advance. Xi additionally has addressed the idealogical gap both within the party and the broader social environment in order to continue the great work that Deng Xiaoping and his vision put into action all those years ago.
@@lordbored7006 Bwa ha ha ha. The CCP is not China. It is a temporary phenomenon that grew out of Marxist ideology. Karl Marx was a German with anti-capitalist ideas. Xi is a lot more accepting of capitalists than Marx was. Karl Marx was a German Jew whose family had converted to Protestantism but Karl was an atheist like President Xi.
To claim that China anti poverty campaign as one off campaign is erroneous and ignorant. The program was tailored made for each community and sustainability is a key feature. There will always failures in any social programs, even in US and NHS in UK, elevating standard of living overall is a never ending challenge for all governments! Will the central controlled economy hamper innovation and progress- the verdict is still open and this explains US policy of curbing China’s rise at all cost, even to the extend of the reversing 40 years of neoliberal idea of free trade. The argument for democracy is also flawed! CCP ‘s argument for democracy is ‘all process democracy’ where the party responses to the needs of the people at all levels of government, right down to local community and villages. One should also refer to what happened to the I on Western democracies: in US only 300,000 swing voters in the swing states will decide the next president of US! In UK the Labour party emerged from major defeat to stumping, overwhelming victory in last 2 general elections even though the popular votes raised from about 29% to about 32%! In France the party with the biggest share of popular support was denied the right to form a government! Obviously western democracy wasn’t perfect and in fact democracy is a spectrum of greys ! I don’t think anyone has the perfect model of democracy for humanity. Francis Fukuyama was wrong, and so did all the political elites so far!
What grated on me through the whole thing was Aaron's continual mispronouncing the name of the subject of the piece. "Xi" is pronounced the way your _Chinese_ guest pronounced it, like "shee". Not "zhee".
That kind of dismissal is what gave Chinese competition the keys to the high tech electric sector kingdom. She must've missed Musk's revision of his opinion of Chinese EV's. China's EV's get a 100% tariff because they just can't keep up, right.
Hahaha yes. Amazing propaganda! Entertaining to watch well-meaning, kind Western social-liberals (often self-proclaimed «socialists» and sometimes «communists») fiercely condemning actually existing socialism in the Global South for not being good enough at upholding liberal policies
That's not what she said at all unless I misheard, simply that introducing Tesla into the local market (catfish) changed the dynamics and increased global competitiveness of local players
The One Chinese Party is a bureaucratic political and cultural body In the US presidents come and go but the bureaucratic administration stays and follows it's course regardless which president is in the white house In China the Chairman is the face and representation of the course of the One Party Mao, Deng and Xi represent all the different stages that the One Party, and the Chinese Republic is going through And it will not be different with the next Chair(wo)man
“...For those parts of the population that XX finds them suspicious, they don't deserve it until they have been reformed and changed.” Well, that's certainly something we're familiar with in the US or UK, and it's called NATIONAL SECURITY.
@@anshuraj4277 well that's sort of what western governments have now. But it seems to me the Chinese population seems pretty happy with their government and their prosperity is growing.
Aaron, get your entire Novara team to Xinjiang and see how Uyghurs actually live - They live a very happy, prosperous life and still speak Uyghur and still are allowed to practice Islam. The truth is out there, just open your eyes and see for yourself!
Genocide denying is fine I suppose when it's left-wing governments committing it, what's your thoughts on Gaza? Probably bad because of all the photographic evidence we are afforded. Ask yourself why there are no pictures coming out of Xinjiang...
based on her english accent, the hongkong lady must have spent much more time living in the UK/US than in HK/China, so her assessment of China is...hmmm interesting...
@@JessicaNield-r5l I am a Chinese man living on China. I don’t need Danny Haiphong telling me about life in China. (And yes I saw the book at a friends house and skimmed through it and saw Danny Haiphong is a contributor.)
Well, usually you're interviews are very good, and quite unbiased.. Not this one! Usual western propaganda talking points, disappointing to say the least..
It is easy to criticise and not knowing how to deal with it. Did the west do better did India does well with democracy? Every country has problem and it is no one way to solve it. It needs to change and improve . Which country in the world that has same population can do better than China now? She is full of hot air but does not know what is the practical world .
Was Olivia born, lived and worked in China for at least 20 some years before getting western education? From the spelling of her last name, she doesn't seem to come from mainland China at all. That reduce her credibility by a big margin.
Western thought tends to be linear and binary whereas Chinese thought, historically and generally, is cyclical and multi-polar. For a deeper dive try the Wilhelm/Baynes translation of the I Ching or Book of Changes. For an idea of their social organization read: The Barefoot Doctor's Manual.
![Eminem - Fuel (feat. JID) [Official Lyric Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/t5H_CewqpKA/mqdefault.jpg)
I teach at a university in China and I have definitely gone beyond the limits she asserts in terms of politics and ideological topics in my classes. Still got a job teaching here. Just saying.
How do you feel about the interview as a whole?
would also interest me how an expat experiences China and how much of the parties rule one gets to experience
The other fact is the School of Occupation Apartheid Studies is a university to train colonial officers, surely she cant have a warped world view then?
@@davidbouchard8963 She covered some things well but there was no real insight into how Chinese people feel or behave. Also anybody could read Xi Jinping's book and published articles etc and say what she said, so nothing special. She never mentioned Xi's time abroad in the USA or his visit to my home country Ireland years ago.
That is really good to hear. I hope there is a lot more freedom of thought in China than this particular social scientist suggests.
She says that the United States sees its foreign policy as upholding the rules-based international order. Surely, she cannot be serious?
The key word there is "sees." I think that's entirely possible. Yes that would make them delusional but I don't think that's unlikely.
She is correct. People often buy their own propaganda wholesale.
It’s laughable!
US never upholds any value or laws, except only self ABSOLUTELY INTEREST and ABSOLUTE SECURITY at the cost of others’ lost and insecurity.
US creates rules for others to follow, and break the rules it created, US has no rule but ZERO SUM rule.
haha she has to say that for "reasons"
I don't know about but she could be a professor in US or works there.
Sorry, she completely lost me discussing EVs. China has not succeeded by copying Tesla, Tesla succeeded because Chinese technology (particularly CATL) and the Chinese market saved the company from failure.. She knows virtually nothing about the development on EVs in China and is going off the rails to pontificate on something she clearly has no expertise on. "I don't have the detail". Indeed. Do you know BYD is a battery supplier to Tesla? That BYD and CATLwere manufacturing batteries before Tesla existed? That China started EV research initiatives more than 20 years ago? Apparently not, maybe Xi was blocking your view.
I just started the interview with hopes but you definitely crushed it lmao
@@NotBryewell the OP said she lost him at 1h into the video. And I don’t know exactly about Tesla, but despite having cutting edge innovation since some time China def also has a long history of inviting western companies and copying there tech, design and manufacturing skills - which I don’t even really blame them for and we’re way beyond the stereotype of China only making cheap copy cats
@@jolima there is copy mimick and steal in every frikkin business. Apple is stealing tons from samsung. intell from nvidia, google from microsoft etc etc.
it never was specifically only china. Thats how far brainwarped u have been.
Its called business.
China was just more competitive hence more companies coming to mimick u.
I’m not an expert or particularly knowledgeable about the subject of EVs. However, her assertion that Tesla created the EV manufacturing boom in China sounded extremely suspicious to me.
@@jolima I would definitely agree with regards to Apple for example. However I personally don’t see that being the case with Tesla. I think technology and innovation has moved on a lot faster in China than many of us in the west have been led to believe.
This lady is a Rhodes Scholar. I would never trust a Rhodes scholar discussing non-western politics.
Why is it that China apologists can’t help enforcing “correct thought” just like “back home”?
On what grounds would that disqualify her?
@@UTubeISphere China apologists insist on “correct thought” just like in the motherland. Criticism is not permitted
I think she definitely hit some points about Xi's ideology, Leninism and his preference on open market, but she definitely didn't understand how economy works and how western capitalism, especially US, which see China as a threat to US hegemony, and what was happened to JackMa.
Yes, so funny that Xi and the CCP peddle influence and practice indoctrination but western institutions don't? @@UTubeISphere
“Liberal “ Hong Konger …. My eyes are rolling so hard that they rolled out of my eyes , down the hallway and onto the Great Wall of China and ever and ever and ever onwards forever ….
Based on the results, Xi aren‘t doing to bad.
So I’m reading a lot of negative comments in this comment section. The main criticism of this interview is that it is heavily biased against China, and this social scientist is quite outdated in her analysis. Please Novara media, could we invite more scholars and intellectuals and other relevant people to discuss China from different perspectives? China is growing in importance on the world stage, and we have already entered a multipolar world in which China is a global superpower. I think it’s really important that we get a more accurate understanding of the reality of China. In particular, I’d like to see more discussion and accurate information on the treatment of the Uighur and other ethnic groups in China. Thanks for all your hard work Novara Media team 😊
frankly, many of the comments are knee jerk bandwagon jumpers.
the interview was fairly clear headed, never really critical though honest about Xi's authoritarian ideals.
I found her almost admiring of Xi, certainly never browbeating or judgemental.
How about the legendary author of wild swans.. but I'm sure most of this comments section would spontaneously combust at that occurance.
@@Thomas...191 Wild Swans was published in 1991. It has no relevance to modern China. The author was also responsible for a fantasy demonisation of Chairman Mao, which received wide publicity in the West but was heavily criticised by academics with actual knowledge of the era. So she might not be the best person to ask.
@@Thomas...191
Keep in mind, any scholar from China praised by the west are mostly motivated by geopolitical calculation of the west!
i second this, if only because there is so much propaganda on the topic and hopefully with more sources we can all get a clearer viewer
Very interesting discussion. The concept of 'assimilating' people into party culture probably shouldn't seem so alien to us in the UK. People on the far right trying bash China over their treatment of a Muslim minority group is simply laughable when they're constantly winging about about how certain ethnic minorities in the UK don't respect our culture and don't intigrate properly 🤔
People on the far right see China's treatment of Muslims as a blueprint to be emulated.
Little Pinks out in numbers
I really don't think the far right care much for China's mistreatment of any Muslim minority. They are fully aligned with the CCP on this.
💀
Yeah because they're really the same issues aren't they? "Rotherham" vs mass labour camps
This narrative that the 2012 anti-corruption campaign was carried out purely on the ground of political persecution is objectively false and the fact that she let completely out of the discussion the real corruption problems that were spreading in the CPC shows that she is too biased to be taken as a serious researcher.
不幸的是，这就是为什么她的观点在西方如此受到尊重，因为它为西方政治评论员提供了一个机会之窗，让他们可以在对话中融入他们的西方叙事。
This is unfortunately why her view is given so much respect in the west, as it allows western political commentators the window of opportunity to sneak into the conversation their western narrative.
@@majorkaios No one is going to sneak into the conversation the phony and dishonest eastern narrative
Eight hundred million people were taken out of poverty. - I'd say that was pretty successful. The longer you listen to Olivia Cheung, the more you realise that this is subtle propaganda on behalf of the West, against The communist Party of China. (Not - The Chinese Communist Party - says a lot - as she calls it) She also fails to talk about the political system at local level, in which people do vote, and have a choice between eight political movements. Novara Media should also attempt to get a more balanced view on China's economy. Interviewing someone like Professor Jeffrey Sachs, (the world renowned US economist) to talk about the future of China's economic potential, would be a good step. It would be interesting to see if he agrees with Olivia Cheung's assessment,, or whether ha has a somewhat different opinion.
Out of "extreme poverty", as defined by the UN if I remember correctly ,as the Chinese say themselves, they know they still have a ways to go to get them completely out of poverty, I forget if it was hundreds or thousands of party members that died living out in the widespread and often remote villages working on this anti-poverty project, over 3 million party members participated in the field.
800 million were taken out of extreme poverty after the CCP created the poverty to begin with. Tens of millions of people starved to death under Mao's rule. The CCP gave up on doing communism and returned to the market system in the 1980s. They opened up to the west, and that is what made China a turnaround success.
She's of the professional managerial class so check her class interests.
hahah sachs is probably hard to get
People do vote…lol.
yes lets ask what anti-communist "scholars" think of communist leaders. Im sure it will be very refreshing and elucidating.
how about anti-democracy?? lol it two side of the coin
@@ahweiqithe west doesn’t hold a monopoly of what democracy is and how it can function.
@@kyledrums🤣😀🤣😀🤣😀
@@kyledrums , they hold the monopoly lol, don make excuse . it ok i know the west love how their democracy make them crazy .
Way better than usual. The beauty of economic success is that even your adversaries have to account for it. She never once accused China of genocide (which can't be said for the competition).
She's informative but clearly an Overseas Chinese with a Westernized slant--most obvious in her rejection of the obvious antagonism of the West in its containment attempts. Also, I live in a small town in "poor" Anhui province--my apartment overlooks farming villages--and the townsfolk are vocally and enthusiastically appreciative of *material* fruits from the anti-poverty campaign, especially the creation of new roads connecting all the farming villages to the cities and highways; 10 years ago they were doomed to dirt roads impassable with mud in the rainy season.
She's not wrong about the popular attitude toward Xi Jinping Thought, which elicits hints of annoyance and skepticism, and toward nationalism, which again is easy to understand with the daily Western provocations and revelations of countless CIA operations aimed at smearing China (the shocking CIA disinformation campaign reported by Reuters recently to discredit the free and non-mRNA Covid vaccines it was giving to poor countries, while the West refused to share).
How anybody can claim Western aggression is a "conspiratorial re-writing of history" in 2024 needs to get out of the libraries more. The mask is cosmically off for the West.
I think I heard "Red Sun in the Sky" playing when I read this pile of communist bilge.
No one in China thinks any program is perfect and will accomplish miracles. But motivating change needs priming the pump. Was all poverty solved in 4 years? Of course not. Was it raised on the agenda and addressed by policy to get change started? Yes. I invite Olivia Cheung to visit my wife's home village in rural Anhui to ask people is things are on the right track and if their lives have improved. I'm pretty sure most will be positive. 100% ? No. But most.
❤❤❤🇨🇳🇨🇳🇨🇳
You are too sensitive- she is not saying nothing improves; but just as Xi‘s thinking might be non-dualistic, so is hers: just because some things are working out well doesn’t mean there’s nothing to criticise. If you can’t handle criticism, it’s a sign of weakness and you can’t grow
@@jolima If you can’t handle criticism of Cheung’s criticism and start using ad hominem attacks like “you’re too sensitive”and “it’s a sign of weakness and you can’t grow”, I wonder who’s the one that’s actually overly sensitive here that’s showing «signs of weakness» and «can’t grow». Their argument was a perfectly sensible criticism of Olivia Cheung’s criticism of PRC. No overreaction here!
@@jorgi6335
You don’t sound like you handle criticism of the guest well, and start using words of personal attack “you are too sensitive.”
The problem with her is she is very generous on giving her criticisms, yet stingy on acknowledging credit where credit is due, that’s why her criticism is not credible.
@@lavendereucalyptus3225 okay, maybe a misunderstanding here. I was answering the responder to the main comment. When I said «you har too sensitive» I was quoting the one I was answering, by the very same reason you quoted my quoting of him/her - because it’s an illegitimate ad hominem attack. I agree to the original comments criticism of Olivia Cheung, and the same did you, if I understand your comment correctly..?
The last 3rd of the interview went downhill. Seriously, China is progressing because the society and people are working hard, not because Western societies "let them". Please Ms Cheung, visit me in China and lets chat, I even know some Cantonese from the decade I lived on HK.. [sigh] another BN(O) intellectual, Cheung, your field research is 10 years out of date. When was the last time you lived in China and for how long? And how long have you worked in the IC Industry here (I do, actually).
Do you use a VPN to access RUclips? When I visited Beijing last year I couldn't access it.
@@unreliablenarrator6649
It doesn’t matter if she has lived in China or not, if she decided to be an ideologue bigot, she will be, no matter how long and how extensive her experience has with China.
She is presenting this idea that everyone should want the whole of the country and its society to progress as a bad thing, as indoctrination.
I tried reading the book she wrote and couldn't shake the Frankfurt School vibes. Many socialist terms were misdefined, either carelessly or deliberately. Even by the end of this video she defines United Front as "divide and conquer".
Can you explain which Frankfurt School writer she reminds you of and why?
@@russellmason4722
The Frankfurt school with few exceptions was heavily funded by CIA shell companies.
There's no need for Xi to coerce the people through propaganda - the progress of China is very evident through the incredible infrastructure, which has opened up markets within the country for many rural areas, fuelling the obvious increase in personal wealth and living standards. Effectively, the government has got things done in a tangible, obvious and dynamic way, positively effecting people's wellbeing, outlook and optimism.
@@jeffreywyatt6425 Pure propaganda
well said.
My big take away from this interview is that China is more like the West than we choose to believe. The two big differences being 1. thanks to Democracy with American characteristics the Rich can legally buy privilege via lobbying where as in China capital accumulation does not automatically equal political power. 2. China seems to pay lip service to the poor where we in the West have all but forgot about the poor as seen in the growing homelessness.
Edit: 'We in the West' should be 'We in the US'
China play lip service to the poor? China lifted 800 million of its people from poverty, which is recognized by the world including the West! Why people in the West seem don't use brains to think and don't use facts to speak?
@@juanitodoe3792
Your take away sounds about right.
"Democracy with American Characteristics" is brilliant. I'm definitely gonna use that in the future. 😁
Another important difference is you can't say anything negative about Mao or Xi in China. Whereas I can say that Churchill and Netanyahu committed genocide.
My main issue with this interview is not necessarily the content itself but, I’ve been hearing that China is on the brink of collapse for years now, and it has never happened. So these problems that she’s talking about that China is going to have to face soon… I just have a hard time seeing it as something different from also those wrong predictions I keep reading.
Also, America not wanting China to succeed is not a conspiracy theory. They definitely want to remain on top as the largest economic superpower. I found that interaction a bit weird.
According to western experts, China has been on the brink of collapse for decades. It's a joke at this point. And I agree, definitely not a conspiracy theory.
When a guest uses, without blinking, words like “coercion” “rule” etc you know what kind of interview it’s going to be. Why taking down a corrupt elder is “forcing someone to go along with him or else”? Logic? Was he not corrupt? Is this person an intellectual or an ideologue?
I totally agree. To me she seems like just another a "anti communist" propagandist.
yes theres a lot of use of the word 'indoctrination' when its just being 'influenced by' or 'learning from'.. she definitely seems to have biases against instead of seeming neutrally fact finding
In many cases, the officials charged and convicted may have actually been guilty of corruption. However, the whole anti-corruption purge is (and has been) used to coerce adherence to the Xi line. The lack of transparency in the legal system makes it difficult to tell whether specific cases are (or have been) primarily motivated by the aim of supporting Xi's power over the party (and, specifically, surpressing dissent), or whether they are (or have been) primarily focused on countering economic injustice
I don't entirely disagree. Although her argument as to why it was coercive was very clear.
1. No top level leader has been purged or taken down since the 1990s - especially after they retired.
2. Xi took down Zhao after he had retired
3. (Implicit point: Zhao was not significantly more corrupt than other top level leaders of the time period)
4. Therefore Xi did this for political reasons not ethical reasons. Hence it's a form of coercion and a purge to consolidate his power.
That's a reasonable take assuming those premises are correct. The main issue is we don't know if they are or aren't. Most of us will have no way of knowing.v
Good take , mate.
When was the last time your guest travelled to China? She is so out of touch, unbelievably out of touch!
Another “China expert” from Hongkong. According to them, Anti-corruption is bad, Anti-poverty is also bad. And the host agrees with her and this channel call themself leftist. What a joke.
Yeah it really is amazing..
Meanwhile the European Union just put a toll on Chinese electric car's because China actually takes climate change seriously and invest tax revenue into green change.
Why you may ask?
Because the European car industry is very rich and influential.
They're more concerned about their own greed than out children's future.
We should have laws preventing corruption, but we don't..
Why, yes, a lot of China experts hail from Hong Kong, or are mainland Chinese in exile, because they’re the only ones free to speak their mind about the CCP regime and give it the criticism it deserves.
It’s China apologists like yourself that make a laughingstock of the left
C.P.C. (*NOT* C.C.P.)!
When will you people learn to stop denigrating countries by deliberately misspelling the names of things. Using the acronym C.C.P. merely shows you up as a western propagandist.
Novara often toes the Nato line.
Maybe you are the biased one.
let me guess...from she is from HK, 90% bashing China and 10% bordering on the neutral line. Never lived in Mainland China for longer than 5 years to actually see progress or get people's intentions. also, the interviewer agreeing with her on all things.
@Chinese Trolls: you are not doing your country a favour in flooding the comment section - this rather back fires. Yes this is impart a rather critical interview, but it is so much more differentiated then anything western viewers get to see in mainstream media and the host is again and again showing his admiration for China and even for your supreme leader. If you can’t handle any honest criticism, it’s rather a sign of weakness and will hinder you from growing (I believe this is the biggest threat to chinas success - next to demography). So tune down the boring propaganda - everybody can immediately identify it as such just from the way you write (since it’s full of grammar mistakes I assume it’s still ppl writing, but maybe your AI is pretty bad - or pretty good at pretending)
almost like she reading from a script lol
Yeah, Aaron is out of his depth in both choice of interviewee and knowledge as interviewer.
remember dudes, 1.6billion budget at work.
1.6 billion scam budget hard at work.
just compare both countries for the last 10 years, its achievements.
Do the same for the last 20 years. Last 30 years, last 40 years, last 50 years.
Enough said.
1.6 billion is just the tip of the iceberg, there is much much more
@@JaceWD
Many people would sell out for money, look at US Congress and politicians, they are okay to be complicit with G cide!
Many human are easily corrupt.
Exactly. China bashing is very easy when people don't look themselves in the mirror.
Her narrative is definitely a western narrative. To be taken with many grains of salt
The anti-poverty campaign is for “extreme poverty” which is the lowest level of poverty. I don’t know why she’s talking about other poor people not being in this category is a problem. And yes “common prosperity” program is intended for all - is the next program.
That she cannot even get a simple fact correct, that Jack Ma's company was shut down due to Ant Financial trying to act as a banking institution without regulation, tells me that many of her other statements are questionable at best.
"..discuss his early difficulties with the CCP.." - I'm sure this will be totally objective and won't have a western bias at all.....
His father was purged during the cultural revolution! 😅
@@aaronbastani1399 "CCP" is the typically racist dogwhistle that mainstream media use.
It literally means the Chinese communist party! Who purged his dad!
@@aaronbastani1399 deleting comments?
As stated in the deleted comment, CCP is a term used by mainstream media (often racist and always biased).
It's use shows Novara is not really independent, but happy to parot mainstream talking points.
Neutral to positive sources will use the correct "CPC".
@@lofgren007 with respect, I don't think anyone gives a flying fuck about the terms.
Anti-corruption isn’t necessarily “power consolidation” or “coercion”. Anti-corruption is good for society. Strange that she thinks like this.
Something can be good and still used to consolidate power, eg. Labours attack on anti-semitism was used by the Starmer faction to clear out the left of the party
@@Wulfuswulferson. Yes. Exactly. And something can be good and it’s good.
You lost me at "maoist totalitarianism" around the 4 minute mark. She's just an anti-communist ideologue
Anti-communist aka a normal, sane person.
@@rudolfst3367 whatever you say mr rudolf steiner 3367
that's not what the interview came across as though. she often sounded like an admiring spokesperson for Xi
@@rudolfst3367 lmao yeah? What is sane about a paranoid fear of non-capitalist society?
Chinese cities look like they’re living 100 or more years in the future.
Easy butt hurt then. In a mental prison of your own making.
China isn’t about Xi.
Martin Jacques calls China a civilisation state (longest continual nation on earth, they were part colonised, but not fully). Kishore Mahbubani says this is not the Chinese Communist Party, but a 5000yr old China. China is the only place on earth that’s come back more than once to global prominence. The next decade will b v interesting between USA and China. I hope you get Kishore Mahbubani on here next or Keyu Jin!
It is only gaining prominence now. Why in 5000 years of history did China never discover Alaska? A lack of questioning the boundaries of their world?
How can you say China had global prominence when for most of its history it had almost zero influence over North America, South America, and Australia. This is the first time in 5000 years of history that China has had global prominence.
@@shanewilson2484 Shane Wilson = ignorance + arrogance (at it's finest). Here's a remedy:
Has China Won - Kishore Mahbubani
When China Rules the World = Martin Jacques
Silk Roads 1&2 - Peter Frankopan
Deng Xiaoping - Ezra Vogel
Btw- look up all these scholars too.
If reading hurts your brain, you can catch The story of Zheng He by William Dalrymple, he sailed way before Columbus, with fleets 10x the size. The difference is, he didn't colonize, which is clearly something you admire....
The comment section = ignorance + arrogance (at it's finest). Here's a remedy:
Has China Won - Kishore Mahbubani
When China Rules the World = Martin Jacques
Silk Roads 1&2 - Peter Frankopan
Deng Xiaoping - Ezra Vogel
Btw- look up all these scholars too.
If reading hurrts your brain, you can catch The story of Zheng He by William Dalrymple, he sailed way before Columbus, with fleets 10x the size. The difference is, he didn't colonize...
@@shanewilson2484 global prominence doesn’t always have to involve colonialism.
Please, Aaron, invite Olivia Cheng to visit Xinjiang with you. You can travel around, meet people in rural and urban areas, and see how they live, then you can visit Afghanistan to see how people live after getting gifted democracy and development from the USA & NATO, then go to Gaza to see how people live after being gifted a small strip of land by the British, and living under the benevolent guidance by Israel. Again, I seriously doubt Ms Cheng has every been in the field and is just parroting the narrative of Western governments and media. Seek truth from facts.
They won't go there 2 bias people screwed in the head. They just want China to collapse that's all end of conversation.
Oh no another point is that China needs national security. the Of course you want China to be taped or something there I'd just no logic in her mind.
Uighur Muslims have awesome lives and are definitely completely free 👍🏽👍🏽👍🏽 a western leftist told me so
Great points your making. Xi is definitely far from perfect but he’s improved the lives of many humans.
@@jsbart96 a western leftist telling the truth? That's a first
I am now starting to doubt Novara Media's independence from the UK State dept. Shame and I am glad I do not support them anymore financially.
What a dumb thing to say.
AS IF you ever did.
you just gotta see the reality of where they come from, theres elements of metropolitan/middle class perspectives on socialist causes instead of deep 'anti-imperialist' perspective, they have flaws but nothing can be exactly how you want or how you think it should be.. there isnt any other british left platform as large as this (except for print like morning star etc) that even talks positively about China.
Novara are funded by the Rosa Luxemberg Foundation, which is majority funded by the German government (they received 87 million euros from them last year)
The UK does not have a State Department
The last people you should listen to about China are liberal Hong Kongers
Ah man, I'm 5 minutes in, oof
Completely agree. Hong Kongers are just like Westerners - they expect everything but don't work for any of it
@@scotthegarty4729
Exactly! They are the most self racist people, bought and paid for by CIA NGO NED.
Shame on them for trying to destroy HK in 2019 riot!
So do you just listen to authoritarian communists?... how balanced you must be
@@Thomas...191
So do you just listen to plutocrat imperial Fascism?...
how balanced you must be
She's obviously biased, and probably paid off. What a waste of time.
Is it tough to learn things for you?
Cant even finish watching it, was hoping you guy would actually get someone on to tell us about how china really is, not just reheat old neo-lib cringe. You guys are supposed to be better than this!
Wolves in sheeps clothing
They aren't really better than this lol. Basically the guardian
It's a Dictatorship
How does anti-corruption drive equal purge - This can be understood if only your rivals are targetted, but your allies? Maybe he wants China to be less corrupt.
Two of recent defense chiefs were sacked, involved the corruption of rocket force procurement....Their prior promotions was recommended by Xi.... I don't know what purge she was talking about, obviously Anti-CPC is her thing.
As soon as she said "The Chinese Communist Party" instead of the Communist Party of China (which is its actual name), I knew what song she was gonna sing.
Its actual name is 中国共产党. You can translate it either way into English because Chinese doesn't have a way to distinguish between 'Chinese' and 'China' as English does. So they literally mean the same thing. Talk about grasping at straws...
That's a laughably superficial reason to dismiss someone's views
@@carmonandy Not if you know what people insist on CCP instead of CPC.
That might just be a translation thing though
Official Chinese media literally used CCP until a few years ago. He Yeduo's oath is a founding document of the Party, from 1931, it is headed with the letters CCP. You can google it. Recently they rebranded to CPC, so the obedient party drones have to rewrite history in their minds. Orwellian is overused but c'mon this is literally a scene out of 1984.
If you want quality material on China - The China Project is excellent. My absolute fave within the network is the China-Global South Project, followed closely by the Sinica podcast with Kaiser Kuo. There's much else there. Truly worth a vist and a scout around.
Olivia, do you know how the Brits would react if I want to start to teach "Shariah Laws" in Britain by teaching Muslims in UK Universities and Islamic institutions, how would the Labour or Conservatives govts., react?
She knows little about China
She is sharing deep insights and good analyss.
You mean she said things you don't like
Unlike random guest353. Sus! xD
Aaron, what's happening, dude? Applebaum, now this clueless hack? Is this another Western propaganda channel now?
The world is a big place. Not everyone shares your worldview. You are free to switch off and watch something else at any time.
@@ministry2627this is disingenuous, not all perspectives are easily accessible or pursued in the larger media ecosystem
@@ministry2627 nothing wrong with calling out bullshit, bro.
@@GetGwapThisYear I agree. But I am responding to a comment that called out nothing, except this channels choice of guest.
@@ministry2627 when you interview a person you're actively giving them a platform, and he certainly wasn't pushing back against her assertions in his interview.
A whole 1.5hr interview and Aaron still doesn’t know how to pronounce Xi’s name 😂
This lady is the definition of clueless. How are you inviting such misinformed people to speak about China?
Talking about China and Ukraine. It does not take a Rhode scholar to understand that this war is driven and encouraged by the US, Yes US has done a lot in supporting the war not in the best interest of Ukraine, Lyinskie is not going to listen to anyone other than the US in this war . And what is this value base order again? This is the biggest question that US has to answer. Is the value base purely an US value where it choose to change the value to fit its own domination, we see that example very well with regarding Diego Garcia which was ruled by ICJ as part of Marcius, how did UK and US honoring the rule of an UN legal body? Also value how many times has the US stole oil from Venezuela or Iran on international sea and what sort of international value or rule based order allow this type of thuggeries. US and UK seem to believe they are entitled to change the rule and order that suits them and asking the other to obey the US order. The current 'rule base' order is not an order and the US is selective on what order they want to enforce and almost a certainty to ignore the order that that are not pleasing to them, China or Russia more or less doing the same. In this regard there is no way people around the world should believe that US or UK has higher moral ground than China or Russia.
Obviously a big fan of China. Can you imagine having to listen to this woman for the rest of your life. Soooo interesting!
1:23:50 “Xi Jing Ping is very narrow minded in the view that what China should do in the world”……so when a country doesn’t want to get involved with international conflicts when they don’t concern its people, it’s a good thing isn’t it? Why call it “narrow minded”?
First applebaum now this lady, what happened to you guys
Aaron salivating over rolling out the Bastani Thought app once the revolution comes.
Great interview! Ms. Cheung is very insightful.
Sitting in front of loads of books had no positive impact.
There was a great series on CGTN, about Xi, covering his family roots and his political career. International surveys, that have been conducted by independent analysts, always put China close to the top as far as peoples approval of their government, and before you answer - oh, they're afraid to say otherwise, (which isn't the case) over ninety percent are optimistic about their future, unlike in the West.
Xi is so fascist no blogger or news site in mainland China is brave enough to criticise him
They have one of the lowest scores on the freedom index of all the countries in the world 🤔
@@csquared973 Freedom index sounds very objective and scientific.
@@csquared973 Sorry, I went into a bit of a rant - are you talking about China, or the US? If it's China - See my previous statement.
I’m sure you would apply the exactly same level of credulity of those surveys also should good results in western countries.
Oh wait, you’d be the first to bemoan ‘brainwashing’ and ‘the media’
President Xi Jinping is the perfect leader for China at this time in her History!
I'm not sure you need Xi Jinping thought to tear down neoliberalism.
The major takeaway is: Policies based on what *people* (not just their work or their companies) *need,* by actually being with them over time - continuously.
Then, catering for what they may *want.* _Then_ for what can be achieved communally, and _finally_ accomplishing an international standing in trade and power.
We in the “west” seem to do all the same things - but in the _reverse order_ after ca 1980.
Wrong as I may be in the above, being an old fart, I’d say it hasn’t always been this way - before WE deregulated our monetary & financial system (thanks, Nixon 1971…). China didn’t make us do that…? 😊
indeed the final straw of weakening regulation happen with Clinton and Bush. and since those 2, there is no turning back. the slope is too steep. i have always wondered if 9/11 didn't happened, with GWB pay enough attention on the economy, because his relaxation policies were meant to give american a short term boost to deal with the grief of 9/11. but instead the system got hook on it and never retighten regulation until it imploded in 2007.
@@lagrangewei I don’t think it’s helpful to speculate on 9/11, the moon landing or any other such major event.
What’s important is to understand macroeconomics, geopolitics or financialisation. These are huge powers within all our societies, but not sufficiently criticised by us - voters.
E.g. the 2009-11 bank bailouts inflated housing way more than post 9/11 wars - across OECD. The numbers are openly available, but never points on a ballot?
If / when corporate interests influence policies more than actual votes, we have a problem.
Not with «the others», but with not talking about economic forces in our own politics. Conspiracies are not needed to observe this. 👍
congratulations to Olivia Cheung for his work
So I find this interview as knit picking. China have to do everything right. I Of course the economy will be bad but that happens to all countries.
It's the CPC, not CCP!
Yes! Don't you know she is a Chinese intellectual? My yardstick is, if anyone starts saying CCP instead of CPC I do not take them seriously. If you unveiled what they have to say: it is Western propaganda against China.
The CCP introduced "CCP", not they use "CPC" to make it more difficult or confusing to search information souces about the party, because accurate information is their enemy.
@@zappsoren It's slyer than usual -- they've clearly been cribbing from Putin's online dirty-tricks playbook.
The famine after the Great Leap Forward was exacerbated by Western refusals to sell or donate grain to China, fully cognizant of the lethal effects of this. Social scientists so often disappoint when they play historian.
NeoLib and NeoCon are two side of same imperial coin!
Her drawdown from Congress Anti China funds must have been increased.
What the cut for hosting her?
Wow you Chinese trolls are getting so sensitive! The host again and again shows his admiration for China, and even for Xi - so much more differentiated then you would find in any mainstream media. But you can accept anything then 100% indoctrinated praise? That’s lame and not being able to handle differentiated criticism is a sign of weakness that will lead to more weakness in the long run.
1.6 billion budget hard at work
@@JaceWD wouldn't be surprised, although I thought novara was better than that
Apart from 2012 until 1949, China has ALWAYS been led by Legalism, which is Solid Totalitarianism. China has ALWAYS been TOTALITARIAN apart for 37 years.
what 37 years are you talking about? China has never had a break in the system.
@@lagrangewei From the end of the Monarchy in 1912 to 1949 when the Communists came to power. Have you not heard of Sun Yat Sen?
BYD innovated high quality at affordable price--it outsells Tesla worldwide now, not just in China. And China's EV battery sector dominates global markets. She's full of cope and denial.
The way she described the China before Deng is absolutely horrible, completely broken from reality, and honestly anticomunist.
This was wonderful...to understand these cultural nuances, so important...I wonder if our politicians even care.
😯 I don't think anyone know president Xi Jinping. ✌️✌️✌️
Another rubbish anti-China video. 😂
@@submariner8970
Expect more, because US House just passed a budget of 1.6 billion dollars on Anti China bill!
This is what US do when they are losing competition, they spend money on bashing their competitors, instead of improving themselves.
Thank you, excellent interview, I learned a lot and I hope people will watch the full hour and half.
I live in China. I learned she's really off-base. She's a pro-Western Hong Konger, after all.
I read the comments. I have lived in China 15 years. I do not think I need to listen to this interview. It will be biased and inaccurate. I trust those commenting.
she wrote a book about what Xi Jinping thinks, but Xi already wrote four books on this subject, its not really hidden knowledge.
I read Novara + "CCP" instead of CPC which I should be suspicious and it seems like the comments confirms me there is no reason to watch this indeed.. 😂
Quite amazed at the sinophilia in this comments section
It's CPC, not CCP.
A highly intelligent translator for the dialogue between China and the rest.
Chinese are friends not food.
😂😍😁
But I ate Chinese food made with real Chinese people! It was delicious.
Did a 15-minute scroll through the comments. Almost absolute unanimous denigration of the substance of the guest's points and attacks on her motives and character. It is very rare to find unanimity on ANYTHING on the internet, let alone on a RUclips channel hosting a lightning rod topic and guest. It's like any POV that isn't the absolute diametrical counter to Washington's interests is either incompetent or naive or malign. Feel amazingly lucky to live in a society where this level of cynical vitriol directed towards its government is not only allowed but promoted on its largest social media platform. Free speech in action, folks - or the bots are out in force, and there's nothing the NSA can do about it short of erecting its own version of China's Great Firewall.
The guest did great effort to do research. But if you go to several remote villages and do some field research, the poverty alleviation campaign is way better than the scenario that you do not do it. It is hugely difficult. But most of the goals are achieved and efforts are still ongoing. And China surely is far less democratic on election than the best. But on the point 事情商量着来, China is doing much better than the west. For example, the relocation of peasants in poverty alleviation campaign is not forced as imagined by many westerners. People actually can choose not to relocate. But the local government went great lengths on explaining and persuasion. Most people chose to relocate simply because their lives would be better. And China actually has almost zero interest in promoting China’s ways of governance. In Chinese culture, people do not expect other countries will be able to learn Chinese way, as each country has its unique conditions. And it is the key that every country to seek its own way of development. China is more than happy to provide assistance in things like infrastructure, which will be a good support for such kind of seek.
I would be more careful with using the term 'assimilation'. I think Olivia means assimilating to the dominant Han polity. In socio-political lingo, assimilation is used to describe the domination of the minority culture which I don't think the Chinese government is doing.
From my understanding of China's advance, Deng Xiaoping saved China from the abyss of poverty that the 'Gang of Four' were leading China to by their corruption. He made very significant re-organisation and modernising policies that directed the path, direction, and readyness to confront and cushion any future backlash from western hegemony against their advance.
Xi additionally has addressed the idealogical gap both within the party and the broader social environment in order to continue the great work that Deng Xiaoping and his vision put into action all those years ago.
Where do they find these self-hating Chinese?
CCP doesn't equal China or Chinese
Hong Kong, Taiwan, or any territory heavily influenced by the western lens
@@lordbored7006 Bwa ha ha ha. The CCP is not China. It is a temporary phenomenon that grew out of Marxist ideology. Karl Marx was a German with anti-capitalist ideas. Xi is a lot more accepting of capitalists than Marx was. Karl Marx was a German Jew whose family had converted to Protestantism but Karl was an atheist like President Xi.
@@lordbored7006do you mean heavily oppressed/suppressed by China?
@lordbored7006, any country with an ounce of freedom then?
This woman is an anti China propagandist. Why have Novara given someone like this a platform? I expected better.
To claim that China anti poverty campaign as one off campaign is erroneous and ignorant. The program was tailored made for each community and sustainability is a key feature. There will always failures in any social programs, even in US and NHS in UK, elevating standard of living overall is a never ending challenge for all governments! Will the central controlled economy hamper innovation and progress- the verdict is still open and this explains US policy of curbing China’s rise at all cost, even to the extend of the reversing 40 years of neoliberal idea of free trade.
The argument for democracy is also flawed! CCP ‘s argument for democracy is ‘all process democracy’ where the party responses to the needs of the people at all levels of government, right down to local community and villages. One should also refer to what happened to the I on Western democracies: in US only 300,000 swing voters in the swing states will decide the next president of US! In UK the Labour party emerged from major defeat to stumping, overwhelming victory in last 2 general elections even though the popular votes raised from about 29% to about 32%! In France the party with the biggest share of popular support was denied the right to form a government! Obviously western democracy wasn’t perfect and in fact democracy is a spectrum of greys ! I don’t think anyone has the perfect model of democracy for humanity. Francis Fukuyama was wrong, and so did all the political elites so far!
What grated on me through the whole thing was Aaron's continual mispronouncing the name of the subject of the piece. "Xi" is pronounced the way your _Chinese_ guest pronounced it, like "shee". Not "zhee".
So if I hear this correctly, Tesla is responsible for Chinese Ev's.
That kind of dismissal is what gave Chinese competition the keys to the high tech electric sector kingdom. She must've missed Musk's revision of his opinion of Chinese EV's. China's EV's get a 100% tariff because they just can't keep up, right.
Hahaha yes. Amazing propaganda! Entertaining to watch well-meaning, kind Western social-liberals (often self-proclaimed «socialists» and sometimes «communists») fiercely condemning actually existing socialism in the Global South for not being good enough at upholding liberal policies
That's not what she said at all unless I misheard, simply that introducing Tesla into the local market (catfish) changed the dynamics and increased global competitiveness of local players
@@Xehr1 My friend that is what she implies: Remember most of the audience for this podcast presume that the Chinese cannot innovate but are copycats.
Aaron, your question about EV was a back-breaker for your guest. Good one 😅
The One Chinese Party is a bureaucratic political and cultural body
In the US presidents come and go but the bureaucratic administration stays and follows it's course regardless which president is in the white house
In China the Chairman is the face and representation of the course of the One Party
Mao, Deng and Xi
represent all the different stages that the One Party, and the Chinese Republic is going through
And it will not be different with the next Chair(wo)man
Sounds dystopian
@@TomMayer-uf7zvSounds better than the European system
@@TomMayer-uf7zv it sounds dystopian ...
when comparing the US and China in actuality it seems that the US has already arrived in a social dystopia
@@fongpontoare you an ai chatbot?
@@TomMayer-uf7zvThere's an insane amount of tankies, so they probably are
“...For those parts of the population that XX finds them suspicious, they don't deserve it until they have been reformed and changed.” Well, that's certainly something we're familiar with in the US or UK, and it's called NATIONAL SECURITY.
Well she's definitely sold China's strong leadership and positive progress to me. 👍
Yeh same.
U want Dictatorship
@@anshuraj4277 well that's sort of what western governments have now. But it seems to me the Chinese population seems pretty happy with their government and their prosperity is growing.
Excelent. On point and explanatory. Thanks.
Novara rebranding as Radio Free Asia
25:14 yes! the party CAN "know best" ONLY when it INCORPORATES and INTERNALIZES ALL the knowledge of the MASSES!!!
really good interview! Very interesting and felt like a fair and balanced discussion
Aaron, get your entire Novara team to Xinjiang and see how Uyghurs actually live - They live a very happy, prosperous life and still speak Uyghur and still are allowed to practice Islam. The truth is out there, just open your eyes and see for yourself!
Genocide denying is fine I suppose when it's left-wing governments committing it, what's your thoughts on Gaza? Probably bad because of all the photographic evidence we are afforded. Ask yourself why there are no pictures coming out of Xinjiang...
based on her english accent, the hongkong lady must have spent much more time living in the UK/US than in HK/China, so her assessment of China is...hmmm interesting...
Knows so little about him…including that it is pronounced Xi like “she”. Fml 🤦♂️ the intro was painful.
Everyone please read "The East Is Still Red" by Carlos Martinez
🤣😀🤣😀🤣😀
@@rafeekgafoor8084 Have you read it? Is this your comment on it? I'll be getting hold of a copy myself.
@@JessicaNield-r5l I am a Chinese man living on China. I don’t need Danny Haiphong telling me about life in China. (And yes I saw the book at a friends house and skimmed through it and saw Danny Haiphong is a contributor.)
@@rafeekgafoor8084can you be more specific. I've seen Danny's work on RUclips and it was... interesting.
Yes. Great book! I also recommend «Socialism with Chinese Characteristics» by Roland Boer. Goes a lot more in-depth if you want to dig deep
Well, usually you're interviews are very good, and quite unbiased.. Not this one! Usual western propaganda talking points, disappointing to say the least..
It is easy to criticise and not knowing how to deal with it. Did the west do better did India does well with democracy? Every country has problem and it is no one way to solve it. It needs to change and improve . Which country in the world that has same population can do better than China now? She is full of hot air but does not know what is the practical world .
well, you recognize them by their telepathic abilities: they know what the world leaders REALLY think!!
so true! This lady's book is basically gossip
Was Olivia born, lived and worked in China for at least 20 some years before getting western education? From the spelling of her last name, she doesn't seem to come from mainland China at all. That reduce her credibility by a big margin.
Western thought tends to be linear and binary whereas Chinese thought, historically and generally, is cyclical and multi-polar. For a deeper dive try the Wilhelm/Baynes translation of the I Ching or Book of Changes.
For an idea of their social organization read: The Barefoot Doctor's Manual.
This is very interesting. Aaron’s use of Marxism, Socialism, Communism and Leninism as interchangeable, unfortunate as it muddies the waters.