HOLY SH*T Starline questioning Eggman about theme parks made me realize something about Eggman's design. His labcoat, its obviously not a traditional labcoat like most evil scientists like Dr Wiley. Its a red tail coat with gold trimming and black pants, the EXACT outfits Carnival/Circus Ringmasters use 🤯🤯🤯
Starline made the mistake every villain, from Archie to IDW, makes when choosing to go against Eggman. They overestimate themselves and underestimate him.
the only villain I can think of who has gone against Eggman and hasn't been screwed over by Eggman is Black Doom from Shadow the Hedgehog. outside of one mission where Eggman sends the Egg Fleet against Black Doom's fleet (a mission in which Eggman loses in two out of the three potential scenarios) Eggman is kind of an afterthought and he needs Shadow to even stand a chance.
The battle between Eggy and Starline is exactly why Alfred voices him so well: the duality of (Egg)man, if you will. Eggman is a comic villain, but when he gets serious there is almost NO stopping him; similar to Alfred’s sudden voice swaps a la “Don’t you dare call me that again.”
Are you making reference to Alfred Coleman's Eggman? Cuz even though it's just dub and not really canon, it does bring up interesting thoughts about that sort of thing
That's also why my favorite eggman voice actor is the late Deem Bristow (Adventure 1-Heroes/Advance 3). He perfectly nails both joke eggman AND sinister eggman, though he doesn't keep them separate like Alfred does. He goes more sinister in Adventure 1 (probably trying to reproduce Jim Cummings performance from SatAM), but by Adventure 2 he perfectly blends both at once, even if he never really got to do a full performance for the character again since Heroes was just boss fights and the Advance games/Battles just used grunts. As for Pollack, he's great (almost perfect) at joke eggman, but he isn't great at sinister eggman (though that could be because Pollack hasn't done evil eggman in any capacity since unleashed).
I dunno why but i really just do not like alfred's eggman voice maybe it's that the stupid moon speech has been smashed into my grey matter but just in general i tire of hearing people hype it up everywhere i go, Deem's portrayal will always be the best
1:17:48 “Belle is looking a little concerned, and who can blame her, she does have a couple of teenage boys with knowing smirks on their faces, guiding her to an abandoned part of town, in a janky toolshed” Best quote I’ve ever read, hands down
Zavok is honestly a homie in this arc so far and I'm all for it. That whole "You don't need him... Don't limit yourself by trying to be Eggman. Surpass him." is honestly amazing advice.
It's pretty ironic even though he is omincidle manic but he does give good praise and advice and points like how Sonic World does not make and prep for future attacks or how he praises Sonic for sticking to his principles
Honestly if the zeti where fleshed out more I might actually like them, these moments with zavok made him alot more interesting. The others still feel like stereotypes. Maybe someday, if they ever appear again, they might feel like more.
@@okamiryun6963 they are a little fleshed out just not as much as Zavok and not all of them but I really enjoyed Master Zik the way they showed him as this experienced and wise, well, master that even Zavok respects and tries to impress its very interesting i love their relationship even if they are evil and they kind of hinted at Zeena being more than is hinted at with how she interacted with Cream and even Zazz has a little more development with how tenasious he is just refusing to go down and always getting back up but yeah they do need more screen time but i feel that the ground work is already there
Dr Starline has quickly become not only one of my favorite Sonic villains, but one of my favorite villains in general. His arc was incredible and his story had an amazing ending.
The best way I can put the difference between Scourge and Surge is that while Scourge is what Sonic could be if he rejected the world, Surge is what Sonic could be if the world rejected him. As a tenrec with only one (debatable) friend in the whole world, she clings to her rage, hatred, and sorrow because it's all she has, while Sonic has dozens of friends and a life full of pleasure, hope, and happiness.
the complete and utter psychological devastation of discovering that not only is your only creator (read: parent) gone forever, but that he's been replaced by his polar opposite, who's currently torturing your friends, destroying the planet, and openly is a man who'd use you and his other creations as mere mindless pawns to his own end, and he's just taunting you about that fact, seemingly under the belief that the man he replaced was never real and most likely being right about it, Evan does such a good job capturing the indescribable pain poor Belle must be in through this series, good lord, give a doll a break.
Surge and Kitsunami quickly went from characters I was apprehensive about to antagonists I love. They really give off the impression of looking at Sonic and Tails through a sort of funhouse mirror. Surge takes all of Sonic's bravado and snarkiness and turns it up to an 11, while Kit takes Tails's nerves and submission from his early years with Sonic and does the same. And they manage to do this without seeming like off-brands or rip-offs. They are their own characters, and I love them
I was initially apprehensive about this arc, seeing it as filler after the amazing Metal Virus saga, but honestly I think this one is better. The stakes are lower and everything is slower paced but Surge and Kit are genuinely engaging enemies and Starline really stepped up his game from ‘affably evil’ to ‘degenerate scumbag’. Killing him off was a great unexpected choice (even if they leave it a bit ambiguous in case they go back on their decision)
@@mimictear6788 That’s actually not a bad idea, and it would tie Starline even closer to his inspirations (Dr.Zachary and Finitevus) without regressing him into a complete copy of them. If it does happen I hope it’s not for at least 2 years or so, make his return a big deal!
Belle dealing with the loss of Mr.Tinker doesnt have to only represent the death of a parent. Recently i've been going through something similar. My parent was never a good parent, i just convinced myself they were. lived my life to earn/ deserve the scraps of conditional affection theyd throw my way. i'm now seeing how wrong the dynamic is and how its been a detriment to me forming healthy bonds. it's hard. i keep pleaing with them, telling them how i feel, how their actions hurt me, giving them things they can do to improve our relationship and they dont. they wont. i know but, i dont want to believe.... so belle talking to eggman over the tablet, the conversation, how he sees her only as an object, a way to applaud himself, his shameless evilness, her dropping the tablet to cry, i feel it. when you realize this stuff, theres no going back despite how much you want to. all those mannerisms they had before take on a new meaning. u see THEM. u realize neither of u ever truly saw each other and, now u can see them but, theyll always refuse to see u.
@@creeperchumsworth1219 thank you haha It's tough and definitely nonlinear. It would be nice to have a last straw like in stories but it doesnt work that way. It's best to just avoid them at a point to save urself the grief. Family should uplift u. If ur family causes strain, consider adjusting the relationship for ur health.
@@smileyface81mc77 I'm sorry your family makes you feel negatively. It's unfair. I'm sorry you relate to my comment. You dont deserve it. I hope you can find home elsewhere. Somewhere that makes you feel wanted not needed. People you want to be around because they uplift you rather than out of obligation. I wish you the best
Starline's faults is underestimating his opponents low intelligence and high and should have had a back up plan for contigences against them. His fall was necessary.
IDW sonic is just so fun, I love how mature he is, it seems to be a natural evolution of the character and is great. Safe doesn't mean that is boring, it just make sense some time.
I'm still a little surprised that Starline was killed off before Mimic. At the same time; I now feel like Starline's story was meant to be that of a self-destructive person. He borrows many traits from a number of iconic literary figures, which isn't uncommon of modern fictional characters. I feel his most notable similarities are with 19th century fellow self-destructive characters Victor Frankenstein, Captain Ahab, and Inspector Javert. He shares with Victor the desire to do very taboo things, Victor making a man and Starline trying to bring Eggman back, only for things to spiral out of control because of them doing such things and consecutively making the situation worse through their decisions down the line. He shares with Captain Ahab the desire to pursue their goals, even to their detriment; this is best shown by how Starline pursues Tails into the building that he himself sent an avalanche hurtling towards in Issue 36, similar to how Ahab pursued Moby Dick until he was killed by the whale. Finally, he shares with Javert the inability to break from their way of thinking to the point where they realize that they were wrong, they couldn't pick up and move on and thus condemned themselves.
3:08 I always interpreted this as Eggman setting Starline's password to alarm badniks if he ever came back. this showed us that eggman was already ahead of starline at the very beginning.
Starline was such a neat villain. If they do merge the IDW and Game Canon worlds together (which apparently something like that is going to happen) I would love to see Starline be a main villain for a game or two.
I feel like the constant questioning of Sonic's morals will eventually reach a breaking point. When all the new villains finally pile up and do something drastic we will get to see what Sonic trully looks like unfettered. We may even get a return of fleetway SS.
Even if fleetway himself can't make a return Who's to say that we can't get someone of his equal equivalent. Not a retconed way of using the super forms or anything like that. But like how dragon ball gt had consequences to using the dragon balls too much.
I dunno, they could use Dark Sonic as an alternative, but I could see it happening if they actually did something legit brutal, like destruction derby brutal.
Dr.Starline has become to be one of my favorite sonic villains. Seeing him grow into his own was a neat journey starting from the Bad Guys miniseries to issue 50. We can't forget about his two creations, Surge and Kit, who helped to propel Starline into a true sonic villain in terms of how he created them. To take a quote from Sonic Adventure 2, "You've turned into a big-time villain doctor." Despite his hard work, he never let go of his obsession with Eggman. Everything he did was all for Eggman and to rule beside him. However, like Eggman said, he doesn't share and Starline of all people should know that about his idol. It's no wonder that Eggman was able to utterly defeat him, not just by being himself, but to use Starline's obsession with Eggman's past exploits against him. Only time will tell if the platypus will come back outside of flashbacks and visions since his death was a left ambiguous.
2:20:45 I can just imagine everyone confronting and pressuring Sonic on this in the future and him being like "OK guys, seriously!? At what point was I made the guy who always decides who lives and who dies?"
It’s funny because Sonic has openly admitted he won’t always be the hero and he doesn’t want to always be the hero. He’s loved because he tries really.
I would like to eventually see Starline return as a villain who becomes fully separate from Eggman and how he handles that, the mental spiral of Starline in the tape that shows him after being disbarred is an incredible moment and to see something like that become his character, as someone who tries and tries but always fails and, unlike Eggman, each loss really badly messes with his head, where he tries to look extremely deeply into how he could’ve lost and loses his mind from it I know that sounds pretty dark, but we’ve sort of already had that with how Starline ended and with that tape Plus, Eggman is pretty limited in only doing robotic stuff, and while that can get very cool with his more elaborate creations, Starline could really bring something new to the table in his more organic work if in the future, he becomes a returning villain
I like this idea honestly, plus it reminds of Archie Eggman when all those loses took it's toll on his mental state causing him to go insane. And an insane doctor is a deadly one. Also just to add to your idea a bit, I feel like he should be subjected to the same treatment as Surge and Kit making sure that he won't go down so easily. Or depending on how the story goes, becomes Surge and Kit's eggman. Vowing to destroy them as they are his "Greatest Failures". Idk just an idea
I think this would be a great way to further foil him against Eggman - to show how the lackadaisical way Eggman takes his efforts actually keeps him from losing his mind (arguably) even though he always loses, and how a perfectionist like Starline just can't keep bouncing back like that.
I think one thing that would really justify Starline coming back would be to combine him with aspects of the final appearance of Dr. Zachary from Fleetway. Have the collapsing of that room do significant damage to him, such that he needs to replace some of his body with overt cybernetics. Not only would it maintain continuity, as well as be an extension of what he did to Surge and Kit (and even reference characters like Bunny and Zachary), but it would always be a physical reminder of his greatest failures and imperfections. I wouldn't want o take it in a full on TMNT 2003 direction where he slowly becomes fully body horror mechanical, just this one transformation to remind him of his greatest failure. He could justify to others that it was a way to emancipate him of his weak stature, but who is he really trying to convince; Us, or Him?
Honestly i could see his defeat against eggman causing a complete change on starline, before that he seriously understimated his enemies even while still consodering eggman a genious but now that he realizes that eggman isna genious if he does a little análisis and realizes what he has done wrong he could be a terrific villain A villain that learns from his mistakes
Starline could come back as a clone, or an AI. In a universe of robots, ancient technology, and other dimensions like Sonic the Hedgehog, there’s a chance he could bounce back. What’d be really interesting, is if Starline did return, did not underestimate Eggman or Sonic, and killed them both. Only for the story to reveal they’d both survived the encounter, but after years of having succeeded his goal, Starline is left empty and lost in his life. This would mirror how, while Eggman is not a flawless, genius supervillain, his decades of fighting Sonic has kept him sane. In a sense. As stated in the latest game, Eggman respects Sonic as his nemesis, but he still hates him.
Sonic's always been role modely, even when he was sassy. SA1, he's the one to suggest trying to help Chaos overcome his hatred rather than resealing him, stating that that won't change how he feels and will just be trapped in his hatred. SA2, he gives that brief speech to Rouge about Shadow's heroism and stops after everyone else leaves to give one last "Sayonara" to his former rival turned ally. Heroes, he gives that "we won because we're Sonic Heroes" line to Metal before leaving and telling him to come back if he wants a rematch. This was all before the switch to the 4Kids Voice Cast and the slow transition of Jason Griffith Sonic into a good guy with little to no sass (before axing him for Roger and turning Sonic into a jerk that's ALL sass and not in a good way). Anyone that's complaining about Sonic in Issue 50 and the other ones that touch on his philosophy of dealing with bad guys has either never played these games, or has a warped memory of how he acted in them.
I always perceived that interpretation of modern Sonic as a role model by choice - He grew a bit from his younger arrogant self, and now is acting selfless and merciful in front of others so to keep and maintain his now public image of a valiant hero. Ego is one trait that had carried over in all versions after all.
even jasons sonic had role modely moments, like at the first silver fight sonic tries to talk to silver (right before getting blasted) and in black knight he even gave merlina a speech about life
I highly doubt this will be the last we see of Starline. Considering that he is the reason behind Surge and Kitsunami's creation into cyborgs, no doubt he'll be brought back for the conclusion of their character arcs. Though whether or not Surge and Kitsunami will become allies and maybe even friends with Sonic and his friends, or be kind of like the Babylon Rogues; antagonistic group, but willing (albeit reluctantly) to team up with Sonic and the gang, is yet to be seen.
He's been stated by Flynn to be dead, but hallucinations, ghosts, or fake versions of him could totally pop up. Surge and Kit having hallucinations that he's still alive and pose a threat to them could be interesting.
@@playerback7722 Its comic books no one gonna stay dead if there is money to make in resurrecting them. And Starline is way to popular to stay dead for long.
@@ObscureSwan Ian also said that if there is huge fan demand he may return after all. And as Ian is no longer the head writer is there rather little he can do if Evan decided to bring him back.
IF Starline ever did come back (Since it was said that if it was requested enough he may make a return) I would love to see how they'd play off of that. Whether he was mental enough to give himself the metal virus as he did with Surge and Kit or something entirely different, either way IF he does return I'd absolutely love to see how they'd write that!
I think it could be fun if they used Surge to bring him back. (Later) we've seen Surge have hallucinations of him, as her stolen Egg-Tech has been supercharging her and- in the process- putting her mind into overdrive and causing these hallucinations. What if Surge somehow, accidentally, wound up supercharging a computer and recreated Starline by pouring her memories and perception of him into it, resulting in this altered digital-only Starline, based on Surge's memories, who takes to manipulating technology and living as a "ghost in the machine?"
Starline was a good villain i enjoyed him but its kinda sad his now dead. But he kinda deserved his demise. I loved the battle between eggman and starline
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter I though it was nobody truly dies and they always come back except for uncle Ben? I thought that was the universal comic book rule?
Regarding Sonic's philosophy and the ethics of his actions, my view on it is this: The comics show Sonic's answers to such quandaries, and provides the reasoning he uses to reach said answers. However, that does not automatically mean his answer is the *right* one, and it can be argued that a central theme of the comic (which would explain why it seems to be such a persistent topic both in and out of universe) is showing the consequences that can arise from granting leniency to past foes. As ridiculous as it might sound to say this of a comic about colourful animals, I think it can very easily be viewed as a long-form critique of the concept of mercy, showing both the good and the bad that can come from it.
I mean considering Sonic’s experiences in the games, it’s not unreasonable for him to have reached that conclusion for himself. S3K with Knuckles (even if he was tricked), SA2 with Shadow, 06 with Sliver (even if that timeline was wiped), Merlina from Black Knight, each of these experiences have shown Sonic over the years the circumstances are gonna vary and that rebounding is not entirely impossible (least when it comes to enemies like Surge).
@@mitchellalexander9162 Undertale didn't do that though, it just went "sparing good killing bad", which i mean isn't bad but far from the concept of criticizing the concept of mercy.
@@funninoriginal6054undertale is a little bit more complex than that, it's whole premise revolves around analysing the whole idea of RPGs and how the protagonists of this games end up killing entire armies just to level up and finding creative ways to not kill your foes It's a story that only really works in videogame format
4:08:20 it's because of his cockiness nature in some battles when he fight robots and he geniuely have fun it's because of his cockiness, recklessness and his carefree attitude that was always a part of his character.
Dude is 7 feet tall, nearly 300 pounds, and has time and again survived things that would atomize a normal human. If it weren’t for Sonic and Belle showing up, he absolutely could and would have rendered Starline into a fine red paste
I actually like the fact that Sonic is called out for being too compassionate towards his enemies, and that there are consequences. Because here's the thing, Sonic is not a 'hero' so to say. Yes he does heroic things, but he does it simply because that's what he wants to do. He doesn't care if he's blamed for his actions. If he thinks its right, it's what he will do, he doesn't care if he's viewed as a villain for doing so. And obviously that philosophy is flawed, but that's what I love about it. It makes Sonic much more than just this one note, perfect hero who can do no wrong.
im actually quite ok with the slower pacing. Mainly because it gives more world building. This isn't just flat characters on a flat canvas in a flat narrative. Its a true world, with thought into it.
I love the part where Eggman like "no I know Miles work he is never this sloppy." Like.thats such a back handed compliment I love it. Tails is my boy love that little dude
At the start, you mentioned not knowing why the Bad Guys wouldn’t just take Starline’s offer to join him, then abandon him after they escape. Mimic doesn’t want to escape. While in prison, he stands easily the best chance of surviving Eggman. If he were out in the open, he’d be on Eggman’s radar more so than before. But with Starline mentioning removing him from the Eggnet, that little worry became obsolete. Zavok has a big ego, and he didn’t want to lower himself to working beneath Starline. That worry was also cast aside when Starline said that Zavok would lead them, not Starline. Rough and Tumble are the only ones that confuse me though I’d’ve left this on your original coverage of the comic, but this was more recent
@@isaacargesmith8217 doesn’t really make sense, it was Eggman who betrayed them, turning them into Zombots. As far as they knew, Starline had nothing to do with it.
My theory is that Rough and Tumble just started learning that they cannot trust anyone else but each other. Everyone else they ever work with always fell short of their expectations.
@@I.T.P I'm pretty sure that's the reason they didn't initially want to work with Starline, guilty by association and all that. They did know he worked on the virus with Eggman. Just remember logic isn't their forte
They actually cover this in the 2022 annuals. so MINOR SPOILER ALERT Rough and Tumble after having a fight and trying to pair up with other people, at the end they promise each other they are the only ones they will team with.
The peaceful Motobug whos programming they used to pacify other Badniks is the one Mr Tinker was tending to when Starline was trying to return him to normal. Mr Tinker might have a hand in undermining Robotnik after all. edit: Oh I guess you figured that out lol
Reading all of this in bulk, I find it amazing how this is basically seems to be a set up arc for a rampage of newer foes. While Surge is an obvious concern, there's also the interest of a certain possum on the rise again, Mimic still being on the loose, and on top of all that Eggman's made a brand new city! AND ITS EVIL!! It seems like there was an important reason to set up how the citizens operate in Sonic's world and I say that because I feel like they wouldn't have put that nod in without trying to do something with it. Just knowing about a spinoff only focusing on Sonic and Tails for a minute is what makes me think back to that. The last we see of the denizens of Sonic's world before Issue 50 is people being a little angry about random terror that they don't feel quite reassured on when the Chaotix rolled in to investigate. It seems that even though the platypus fell, a part of Starline's original plan to put Sonic and Tails out of the picture (these two are noted as the most prominent heroes of the planet) accidentally comes to fruition. What villains are not going to pass an opportunity like that? I'm kind of curious to see how it all plays out in the upcoming year for IDW. I get the feeling they're going to do a much more interesting arc that's coming up, and this was a great set-up for whatever they have next.
Sonic Heroes is my die hard favorite Sonic game. To see so many callbacks and using gaming mechanics as cannon for this comic series puts a smile on face. Also, Belle's existence is a good way of having Mr. Tinker having some legacy that can live on, like a sprout that can grow into a character of her own. Same as Surge being a separate being to Scourge yet similar qualities.
You know a story and its characters are written well when you just want to run up to the unstable, destructive aquatic killing machine, wrap them in a hug and tell them everything's going to be okay.
2:19:50 I love how Zavoc essentially hears "I refuse to let anything get in the way of my principles" and just says "I can respect refusing to let anything get in the way."
I'm honestly hoping Starline comes back later on in the series. I feel like a backstory is needed on why he was such an Eggman fanboy and why he's such an evil genius. I imagine him going full on mad scientist and is all "The Flash is Weak!" with cybernetics and with the goal of fighting Eggman again and intends to dethrone him entirely.
3:45:10 this entire page was fucking crazy, she's bouncing around at lightning speed (at the bare minimum) and sonic briefly shows how fast he can be when he's serious, making her look like she's standing completely still when he runs up on her. not to mention how nonchalantly he does it too, great way to show he's been massively holding back since the beginning of their skirmish
I hope starline comes to the mainline games.also great video’s.I still wished we had a starline origin issue. I really wanna see kit and surge’s past in the future issue
One thing I love about this is the badass animal villains. I know there was some previously but it use to be lots of eggman and robots which is still around in this. Love Idw and the direction they’re taking it
Originally and initially I was a bit reticent to move from the defunct Archie line to IDW but when I learnt Iann Flynn was one of the masterminds behind the story I gave it a chance and I don't regret it. The new characters and arcs in this thing is just... it feels like Archie again, even with all the new restrictions from SEGA, it's just beautiful Starline is an amazing character as a villain that started from the bottom of the chain of command to become his own man but unable to get out of his obsession with the doctor. The metal zombie virus really felt like an Archie arc, it made me feel tense and I love that there's actual repercusions that take time to get fixed after the arc is over. Rough and Tumble have single-handedly made me chuckle whilst also proving themselves as villains that would be fun to fight or play as in a sonic game. Whisper and Belle make me smile almost everytime they have a word to say. And belle's connection to Robotnik was the cherry on top to explore over these stories. Eggman could have been such a great father if he wasn't narcisistic sociopath. Tangle is full of energy and life! I can't wait to see more of her whenever I see her on a cover. The Deadly Six, especially Zavok are robust and solid characters everytime they are featured in, the Lost World did no justice to them at all! Metal Sonic, both in Neo and normal states have a hundred times more personality than the games ever dared to tread with him even in scrapnik island I am seeing a lot of that 'mute personality' on Mecha Sonic to this day. Surge and Kit are just a breath of fresh air. I was afraid they were just going to do genderbent Scourge and Fiona but they actually went on to become their very own characters, their very own rivals. It's lovely to see the next generations of Sonic Comics are in good hands.
You are correct. This IS, in fact, the last time we will ever see starline. Ian Flynn has confirmed his death, however he did say that if there's a large enough demand, he might bring him back somehow.
I just realized IDW likes to make ground slams to assert the domination of a character XD Gemerl slams the female Zeti to the ground; Meta Sonic slams Surge to the ground; Eggman slams Starline to the ground... I think there's another one but I can't remember
It's moments like these I don't mind that Sega mandated him as a Gary Stu. Unlike most Mary Sue/ Gary Stu characters Sonic can still have some range of emotions and expressions, may always win a fight but not every argument and can admit that his philosophy isn't perfect but he will accept the consequences regardless.
Dude, there should just be a Sonic Spinoff series where all the characters that aren't from the main game can thrive without limitations of the main cast. Most of the characters IDW introduced are so interesting.
32:50 if not for a certain bot in a series that just started, Zavok is legit my fave sonic comics character, absolute insanity when you look back at the game he came from
Amazing video i love your content. It is so much fun analysing the chapters and See how much i get right and what i got wrong about the story with the help of your Videos. Thank you for making my afternoon so enjoyable.
If it weren't for this guy I would have very minimal amount of access to IDW, thanks for giving me a chance to read this without losing my bank account!
I absolutely LOVE Starline, Surge, and Kit. Starline is a more... progressive reflection of Eggman, without the sheer experience and power. Surge and Kit are my favorite. From their incredibly dark origins, to their manipulaion by Starline, as well as the genuine friendship between them, they are just very enjoable. They are their own people determined to survive and be their own individuals in a world they beelieve is rotten and stagnating. I honestly want to see them win, I want to see them grow closer and surpass their creator. I love them so much.
Im hyped and ready for the scrapnik island speed reading, i don't have the money to buy the idw books yet so you are my gateway to the stories and your amazing at it!
The thing about Eggman is that he is prideful of what he makes. He takes personal offense when his stuff is destroyed, especially Metal. Belle, while being made by Mr Tinker, is still made from a different side to Eggman. Despite how cold he may act, the fact that he let Belle leave without trying to destroy them like he would normally do to faulty badnics shows that his pride carries over to the creations he made durring his time as Mr.Tinker. Belle is exactly what "he" wanted her to be, and he is proud of that, even if he doesn't realize it.
I just know that clutch and mammoth mogul would be the biggest underworld ops to each other. Two enterprising lowlifes that get embarrassed by children almost routinely
3:46:31, That price of art, of surge attacking sonic reminds me a lot of the Genos vs Saitama fight. Now Im not poetic, and don't have much to say. It just seems that surge was giving her all, while sonic just sees it as another Tuesday. What surge thinks as a epic final showdown to the death. Is just another obstacle to sonic. Which is said in the video basically I'm just copying it lol
That “Crazy old purple thing” might be a reference to Crinkly Wrinkly from the show “OK KO, Let’s Be Hero’s” (They even had a crossover with sonic and tails in the show)
Starline’s last stand with Ivo Robotnik made me remember why in our current age Eggman is still a massive threat and confirmed for me that Eggman is my favorite sonic character ever. Yeah sure he’s a goofy eggman but he is still Robotnik he is still a huge threat
Starline is one of my Favorite Sonic characters because he TECHNICALLY made my new favorite character, You know her, You Love her, My Girl *SURGE.* And also his Character, his design, is amazing
2:34:39 There is only one card in a tarot deck that could make any reader hesitate like that and its The Tower card which tldr is basically devastation or chaos. Its not a good card to draw alone but in context sometimes it can be a lot better especially if its reversed.
Filler can be good, you just begrudge it because oh you want to get to the main plot that's where the juicy details are, or at least that's how I think a lot of people feel even if they don't realize it. However as we got into these stories I was more excited to see them, wasn't too worried about the over all arcing plot with how interesting and good the side plots are. It allowed us to delve into the characters, which was a change of pace, despite how old these characters and this series are we don't know much about some of them. What they do in day to day life, their likes, interests beyond obvious like oh Tails does machines, Knuckles is rude but cool, and Sonic is a... wait a minute. Moving on from jokes, I always hate the amnesia trope, it's way over used, but here it worked because something actually came out of it, not just a bunch of cliches, and gave us a lot more and new stuff such as Belle. The delving into Sonic's moral ground that newer fans probably don't know, but for older fans recognizing it falls in line with his Adventure, Heroes, 06, and Black Knight self. Metal Sonic always happy to see and his character built on each time, and of course Starline's whole journey through all this. I wouldn't even be upset if he did survive, he was so well written, I wouldn't even complain if he showed up in the game, oh and how could I almost forget that epic fight between Eggman's big machines, and oooh standing out of the rubble in the shadows, that creepy smile, showing us how and why he is terrifying, that he isn't all talk a goofy cartoon of a character, that he is actually a threat and can back up his claims.
Comic 53 spoilers I like how they've done Starline being a specter that haunts a lost, destructive Surge. She's going only be a weapon without a purpose the way she is, a monument to starline in the worst way.
I cant lie I love listening to this man read it’s comforting and interesting and I don’t have to buy the book. I watched ever last one of his videos that are a few hours long.
Only odd thing about Shadow I found in this is that Shadow is on billboards for Chaos Soda during Chao Races. He doesn't feel like the kind of person to sell out and take a brand deal although I'd love a short comic showing how Shadow was convinced to do it like maybe Rouge pretended to be his manager so she gets the money and they take photos of Shadow under false pretences, like pretending it's a photo shoot for Ultimate Lifeform Monthly magazine.
Ah, but would he be the kind of person to bother suing the creator of the billboard if it was unlicensed? Or: Would he even notice/care about it in the first place since he has other priorities at the time?
I feel like Batman would consider sonic a friend after hearing sonic say he ain't gonna sacrifice his principals out of fear regarding his no kill rule.
Why you do this to me?! I, like everyone, assumed that was his lower jaw. I can't unsee that, man! Also, "Gears and Starters" is a phenomenal surprise line, because it's specifically derived from "Stars and Garters", an actual exclamation of surprise, albeit an uncommon and old-timey one.
Starline like other " assistents that betrays Eggman" mistake the lack of foresight when he deals with Sonic, as Eggman being a idiot and then get caugh off guard with the amount the Dr actually has. I think Eggman does not show that much foresight in his plans against Sonic, because he knows its pointless. No matter how far ahead he plans Sonic and co are unpredictable Take Sonic adventure 2. There Eggman knew Sonic planned to give him a fake chaos emerald. He tricked Tails into revealing it WAS a fake emerald, and then shot Sonic with the same fake emerald into space in a pod that was going explore. There was NO WAY that could fail, it was planned perfectly. But somehow Sonic was able to use chaos control with a fake chaos emerald and escape death. Eggman knows more then anyone that, with Sonic and friend its impossible to plan ahead and try to predict what happens. So, just go wild and HOPE he has the luck to hit Sonic for once.
HOLY SH*T Starline questioning Eggman about theme parks made me realize something about Eggman's design. His labcoat, its obviously not a traditional labcoat like most evil scientists like Dr Wiley. Its a red tail coat with gold trimming and black pants, the EXACT outfits Carnival/Circus Ringmasters use 🤯🤯🤯
Holy crap!
Damn💀
well, that makes a lot of sense
I can’t unsee it now!!!!
No wonder he likes screwing around with Nature or "taming" wild animals, via roboticization or something else
Starline made the mistake every villain, from Archie to IDW, makes when choosing to go against Eggman. They overestimate themselves and underestimate him.
He would Not Last long against Robo-Robotnik.
Well Starline didn't underestimate himself but Dr. Eggman
@@hi_tobby3771 Starline over estimated his own abilities. Typical villain arrogance.
@@kap1618 No, he understimated Eggman
the only villain I can think of who has gone against Eggman and hasn't been screwed over by Eggman is Black Doom from Shadow the Hedgehog.
outside of one mission where Eggman sends the Egg Fleet against Black Doom's fleet (a mission in which Eggman loses in two out of the three potential scenarios) Eggman is kind of an afterthought and he needs Shadow to even stand a chance.
The battle between Eggy and Starline is exactly why Alfred voices him so well: the duality of (Egg)man, if you will.
Eggman is a comic villain, but when he gets serious there is almost NO stopping him; similar to Alfred’s sudden voice swaps a la “Don’t you dare call me that again.”
Are you making reference to Alfred Coleman's Eggman? Cuz even though it's just dub and not really canon, it does bring up interesting thoughts about that sort of thing
@@tylerflory9373 i was just making a comparison between the way he's portrayed by those guys vs. his canon portrayal, hehe.
@@ratte6090 oh, I'm not denying that, I was just double checking with you on if you meant Alfred Coleman, because I never saw it that way before
That's also why my favorite eggman voice actor is the late Deem Bristow (Adventure 1-Heroes/Advance 3). He perfectly nails both joke eggman AND sinister eggman, though he doesn't keep them separate like Alfred does. He goes more sinister in Adventure 1 (probably trying to reproduce Jim Cummings performance from SatAM), but by Adventure 2 he perfectly blends both at once, even if he never really got to do a full performance for the character again since Heroes was just boss fights and the Advance games/Battles just used grunts.
As for Pollack, he's great (almost perfect) at joke eggman, but he isn't great at sinister eggman (though that could be because Pollack hasn't done evil eggman in any capacity since unleashed).
I dunno why but i really just do not like alfred's eggman voice
maybe it's that the stupid moon speech has been smashed into my grey matter but just in general i tire of hearing people hype it up everywhere i go, Deem's portrayal will always be the best
1:17:48
“Belle is looking a little concerned, and who can blame her, she does have a couple of teenage boys with knowing smirks on their faces, guiding her to an abandoned part of town, in a janky toolshed”
Best quote I’ve ever read, hands down
Zavok is honestly a homie in this arc so far and I'm all for it. That whole "You don't need him... Don't limit yourself by trying to be Eggman. Surpass him." is honestly amazing advice.
It's pretty ironic even though he is omincidle manic but he does give good praise and advice and points like how Sonic World does not make and prep for future attacks or how he praises Sonic for sticking to his principles
@@agsdragon5475 right??
@@agsdragon5475IDW Zavok is unironicaly one of my favorite characters, he is great
Honestly if the zeti where fleshed out more I might actually like them, these moments with zavok made him alot more interesting. The others still feel like stereotypes. Maybe someday, if they ever appear again, they might feel like more.
@@okamiryun6963 they are a little fleshed out just not as much as Zavok and not all of them but I really enjoyed Master Zik the way they showed him as this experienced and wise, well, master that even Zavok respects and tries to impress its very interesting i love their relationship even if they are evil and they kind of hinted at Zeena being more than is hinted at with how she interacted with Cream and even Zazz has a little more development with how tenasious he is just refusing to go down and always getting back up but yeah they do need more screen time but i feel that the ground work is already there
Dr Starline has quickly become not only one of my favorite Sonic villains, but one of my favorite villains in general. His arc was incredible and his story had an amazing ending.
The best way I can put the difference between Scourge and Surge is that while Scourge is what Sonic could be if he rejected the world, Surge is what Sonic could be if the world rejected him. As a tenrec with only one (debatable) friend in the whole world, she clings to her rage, hatred, and sorrow because it's all she has, while Sonic has dozens of friends and a life full of pleasure, hope, and happiness.
the complete and utter psychological devastation of discovering that not only is your only creator (read: parent) gone forever, but that he's been replaced by his polar opposite, who's currently torturing your friends, destroying the planet, and openly is a man who'd use you and his other creations as mere mindless pawns to his own end, and he's just taunting you about that fact, seemingly under the belief that the man he replaced was never real and most likely being right about it, Evan does such a good job capturing the indescribable pain poor Belle must be in through this series, good lord, give a doll a break.
Imagine once she meets her sister
Surge and Kitsunami quickly went from characters I was apprehensive about to antagonists I love. They really give off the impression of looking at Sonic and Tails through a sort of funhouse mirror. Surge takes all of Sonic's bravado and snarkiness and turns it up to an 11, while Kit takes Tails's nerves and submission from his early years with Sonic and does the same. And they manage to do this without seeming like off-brands or rip-offs. They are their own characters, and I love them
I was initially apprehensive about this arc, seeing it as filler after the amazing Metal Virus saga, but honestly I think this one is better. The stakes are lower and everything is slower paced but Surge and Kit are genuinely engaging enemies and Starline really stepped up his game from ‘affably evil’ to ‘degenerate scumbag’. Killing him off was a great unexpected choice (even if they leave it a bit ambiguous in case they go back on their decision)
Surge and Kit are literally invincible because of metal virus, so I would say the stakes might even be higher.
I hope he ends up getting the 2003 Baxter Stockman treatment.
@@mimictear6788 oh god oh god noo (glad he had a happy ending tho )
@@mimictear6788 That’s actually not a bad idea, and it would tie Starline even closer to his inspirations (Dr.Zachary and Finitevus) without regressing him into a complete copy of them. If it does happen I hope it’s not for at least 2 years or so, make his return a big deal!
Metal virus had filler???
Belle dealing with the loss of Mr.Tinker doesnt have to only represent the death of a parent. Recently i've been going through something similar. My parent was never a good parent, i just convinced myself they were. lived my life to earn/ deserve the scraps of conditional affection theyd throw my way. i'm now seeing how wrong the dynamic is and how its been a detriment to me forming healthy bonds.
it's hard. i keep pleaing with them, telling them how i feel, how their actions hurt me, giving them things they can do to improve our relationship and they dont. they wont. i know but, i dont want to believe....
so belle talking to eggman over the tablet, the conversation, how he sees her only as an object, a way to applaud himself, his shameless evilness, her dropping the tablet to cry, i feel it. when you realize this stuff, theres no going back despite how much you want to. all those mannerisms they had before take on a new meaning. u see THEM. u realize neither of u ever truly saw each other and, now u can see them but, theyll always refuse to see u.
I hope you are doing alr ever since bruh-
@@creeperchumsworth1219 thank you haha
It's tough and definitely nonlinear. It would be nice to have a last straw like in stories but it doesnt work that way. It's best to just avoid them at a point to save urself the grief.
Family should uplift u. If ur family causes strain, consider adjusting the relationship for ur health.
bruhhh you dont gotta call MY situation out like this as well
Your comment made me cry. I knew my family was bad before reading your comment, but through your comment, I feel so… seen.
@@smileyface81mc77 I'm sorry your family makes you feel negatively. It's unfair. I'm sorry you relate to my comment. You dont deserve it.
I hope you can find home elsewhere. Somewhere that makes you feel wanted not needed. People you want to be around because they uplift you rather than out of obligation. I wish you the best
Starline's faults is underestimating his opponents low intelligence and high and should have had a back up plan for contigences against them.
His fall was necessary.
IDW sonic is just so fun, I love how mature he is, it seems to be a natural evolution of the character and is great. Safe doesn't mean that is boring, it just make sense some time.
I guess the best way to put is is that UDW is “clean”, not “sterile”
I'm still a little surprised that Starline was killed off before Mimic. At the same time; I now feel like Starline's story was meant to be that of a self-destructive person. He borrows many traits from a number of iconic literary figures, which isn't uncommon of modern fictional characters. I feel his most notable similarities are with 19th century fellow self-destructive characters Victor Frankenstein, Captain Ahab, and Inspector Javert. He shares with Victor the desire to do very taboo things, Victor making a man and Starline trying to bring Eggman back, only for things to spiral out of control because of them doing such things and consecutively making the situation worse through their decisions down the line. He shares with Captain Ahab the desire to pursue their goals, even to their detriment; this is best shown by how Starline pursues Tails into the building that he himself sent an avalanche hurtling towards in Issue 36, similar to how Ahab pursued Moby Dick until he was killed by the whale. Finally, he shares with Javert the inability to break from their way of thinking to the point where they realize that they were wrong, they couldn't pick up and move on and thus condemned themselves.
Man, Starline really does help make this series for me. It's such a joy to read when he's around!
3:08
I always interpreted this as Eggman setting Starline's password to alarm badniks if he ever came back. this showed us that eggman was already ahead of starline at the very beginning.
Starline was such a neat villain. If they do merge the IDW and Game Canon worlds together (which apparently something like that is going to happen) I would love to see Starline be a main villain for a game or two.
Shame about him being fucking dead.
Some flashback fights against him could be cool tho.
Starline: Dr. Eggman, please! We can win if we follow the plan! Please step aside!
Eggman: I'm going to kill you... And then kill you again.
@@justascarecrow6988 I mean, in game canon he doesn’t have to start off dead.
@@AlexSzubka but doesn't frontier take place after forces which is around the time the comics take place
@@BBK113 yes, but they can introduce them as new and tell their own version of the IDW story as games
I feel like the constant questioning of Sonic's morals will eventually reach a breaking point. When all the new villains finally pile up and do something drastic we will get to see what Sonic trully looks like unfettered. We may even get a return of fleetway SS.
Even if fleetway himself can't make a return
Who's to say that we can't get someone of his equal equivalent. Not a retconed way of using the super forms or anything like that.
But like how dragon ball gt had consequences to using the dragon balls too much.
I dunno, they could use Dark Sonic as an alternative, but I could see it happening if they actually did something legit brutal, like destruction derby brutal.
I'd love to see that.
why the fuck would fleetway sonic Randomly come in
DUDE
That’s like 99% not going to happen, but still, seeing Sonic pushed to the absolute edge is always pretty cool.
Dr.Starline has become to be one of my favorite sonic villains. Seeing him grow into his own was a neat journey starting from the Bad Guys miniseries to issue 50. We can't forget about his two creations, Surge and Kit, who helped to propel Starline into a true sonic villain in terms of how he created them. To take a quote from Sonic Adventure 2, "You've turned into a big-time villain doctor." Despite his hard work, he never let go of his obsession with Eggman. Everything he did was all for Eggman and to rule beside him. However, like Eggman said, he doesn't share and Starline of all people should know that about his idol. It's no wonder that Eggman was able to utterly defeat him, not just by being himself, but to use Starline's obsession with Eggman's past exploits against him. Only time will tell if the platypus will come back outside of flashbacks and visions since his death was a left ambiguous.
2:20:45 I can just imagine everyone confronting and pressuring Sonic on this in the future and him being like "OK guys, seriously!? At what point was I made the guy who always decides who lives and who dies?"
It’s funny because Sonic has openly admitted he won’t always be the hero and he doesn’t want to always be the hero. He’s loved because he tries really.
I've just realized. Starline's hair looks like toothpaste.
Now i wish Starline-brand toothpaste was real
You have a point. But I don't see it
🤣
@Oreakoy me to
Yep. 🤣 I'm surprised you only just now noticed that
Especially Starline's logo, which _literally_ looks like it's taken off a box of Colgate
I would like to eventually see Starline return as a villain who becomes fully separate from Eggman and how he handles that, the mental spiral of Starline in the tape that shows him after being disbarred is an incredible moment and to see something like that become his character, as someone who tries and tries but always fails and, unlike Eggman, each loss really badly messes with his head, where he tries to look extremely deeply into how he could’ve lost and loses his mind from it
I know that sounds pretty dark, but we’ve sort of already had that with how Starline ended and with that tape
Plus, Eggman is pretty limited in only doing robotic stuff, and while that can get very cool with his more elaborate creations, Starline could really bring something new to the table in his more organic work if in the future, he becomes a returning villain
I like this idea honestly, plus it reminds of Archie Eggman when all those loses took it's toll on his mental state causing him to go insane. And an insane doctor is a deadly one. Also just to add to your idea a bit, I feel like he should be subjected to the same treatment as Surge and Kit making sure that he won't go down so easily. Or depending on how the story goes, becomes Surge and Kit's eggman. Vowing to destroy them as they are his "Greatest Failures". Idk just an idea
I think this would be a great way to further foil him against Eggman - to show how the lackadaisical way Eggman takes his efforts actually keeps him from losing his mind (arguably) even though he always loses, and how a perfectionist like Starline just can't keep bouncing back like that.
I think one thing that would really justify Starline coming back would be to combine him with aspects of the final appearance of Dr. Zachary from Fleetway. Have the collapsing of that room do significant damage to him, such that he needs to replace some of his body with overt cybernetics. Not only would it maintain continuity, as well as be an extension of what he did to Surge and Kit (and even reference characters like Bunny and Zachary), but it would always be a physical reminder of his greatest failures and imperfections. I wouldn't want o take it in a full on TMNT 2003 direction where he slowly becomes fully body horror mechanical, just this one transformation to remind him of his greatest failure. He could justify to others that it was a way to emancipate him of his weak stature, but who is he really trying to convince; Us, or Him?
Honestly i could see his defeat against eggman causing a complete change on starline, before that he seriously understimated his enemies even while still consodering eggman a genious but now that he realizes that eggman isna genious if he does a little análisis and realizes what he has done wrong he could be a terrific villain
A villain that learns from his mistakes
Starline could come back as a clone, or an AI. In a universe of robots, ancient technology, and other dimensions like Sonic the Hedgehog, there’s a chance he could bounce back. What’d be really interesting, is if Starline did return, did not underestimate Eggman or Sonic, and killed them both. Only for the story to reveal they’d both survived the encounter, but after years of having succeeded his goal, Starline is left empty and lost in his life. This would mirror how, while Eggman is not a flawless, genius supervillain, his decades of fighting Sonic has kept him sane. In a sense. As stated in the latest game, Eggman respects Sonic as his nemesis, but he still hates him.
Sonic's always been role modely, even when he was sassy.
SA1, he's the one to suggest trying to help Chaos overcome his hatred rather than resealing him, stating that that won't change how he feels and will just be trapped in his hatred.
SA2, he gives that brief speech to Rouge about Shadow's heroism and stops after everyone else leaves to give one last "Sayonara" to his former rival turned ally.
Heroes, he gives that "we won because we're Sonic Heroes" line to Metal before leaving and telling him to come back if he wants a rematch.
This was all before the switch to the 4Kids Voice Cast and the slow transition of Jason Griffith Sonic into a good guy with little to no sass (before axing him for Roger and turning Sonic into a jerk that's ALL sass and not in a good way). Anyone that's complaining about Sonic in Issue 50 and the other ones that touch on his philosophy of dealing with bad guys has either never played these games, or has a warped memory of how he acted in them.
And Sega is returning to that Sonic
I always perceived that interpretation of modern Sonic as a role model by choice - He grew a bit from his younger arrogant self, and now is acting selfless and merciful in front of others so to keep and maintain his now public image of a valiant hero. Ego is one trait that had carried over in all versions after all.
even jasons sonic had role modely moments, like at the first silver fight sonic tries to talk to silver (right before getting blasted) and in black knight he even gave merlina a speech about life
@@carso1500 AKA, OUR Sonic. The Hero of Mobius.
... Eh? I mean, thats fair, but even the oft-scapegoated 2010's Sonic has 'aspirational' qualities, they're just not presented as upfrontly.
It’s pretty telling that when sonic tries to redeem metal sonic, he gets hit and says “Yow!” and the exact same thing happens with Surge
"Wait, I watched these already..." *Proceeds to watch it again anyways*
It’s been taxing to reach 50 chapters after the metal virus, but it’s been a refreshing build up to what’s to come.
I highly doubt this will be the last we see of Starline. Considering that he is the reason behind Surge and Kitsunami's creation into cyborgs, no doubt he'll be brought back for the conclusion of their character arcs. Though whether or not Surge and Kitsunami will become allies and maybe even friends with Sonic and his friends, or be kind of like the Babylon Rogues; antagonistic group, but willing (albeit reluctantly) to team up with Sonic and the gang, is yet to be seen.
Nope Flynn, 51 and 52 of the series stated he was dead. I see no chance of coming back in the comic.
He's been stated by Flynn to be dead, but hallucinations, ghosts, or fake versions of him could totally pop up. Surge and Kit having hallucinations that he's still alive and pose a threat to them could be interesting.
@@playerback7722 Its comic books no one gonna stay dead if there is money to make in resurrecting them.
And Starline is way to popular to stay dead for long.
@@ObscureSwan Ian also said that if there is huge fan demand he may return after all.
And as Ian is no longer the head writer is there rather little he can do if Evan decided to bring him back.
IF Starline ever did come back (Since it was said that if it was requested enough he may make a return) I would love to see how they'd play off of that. Whether he was mental enough to give himself the metal virus as he did with Surge and Kit or something entirely different, either way IF he does return I'd absolutely love to see how they'd write that!
Maybe he'll pull a Dr. Gero, and make himself a cyborg? Seems like something he'd do.
I think it could be fun if they used Surge to bring him back. (Later) we've seen Surge have hallucinations of him, as her stolen Egg-Tech has been supercharging her and- in the process- putting her mind into overdrive and causing these hallucinations. What if Surge somehow, accidentally, wound up supercharging a computer and recreated Starline by pouring her memories and perception of him into it, resulting in this altered digital-only Starline, based on Surge's memories, who takes to manipulating technology and living as a "ghost in the machine?"
Starline was a good villain i enjoyed him but its kinda sad his now dead. But he kinda deserved his demise. I loved the battle between eggman and starline
Rule 1 of comic book deaths: No body, no death.
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter even when theres a body, theres bullshit
I think about 100 issues from now we get metal Starline and that's how he survives 👀
@@imveryangryitsnotbutter I though it was nobody truly dies and they always come back except for uncle Ben? I thought that was the universal comic book rule?
@@BlueTyphoon2017 whos uncle ben. And also the one that does the come back is William Afton
Regarding Sonic's philosophy and the ethics of his actions, my view on it is this:
The comics show Sonic's answers to such quandaries, and provides the reasoning he uses to reach said answers. However, that does not automatically mean his answer is the *right* one, and it can be argued that a central theme of the comic (which would explain why it seems to be such a persistent topic both in and out of universe) is showing the consequences that can arise from granting leniency to past foes.
As ridiculous as it might sound to say this of a comic about colourful animals, I think it can very easily be viewed as a long-form critique of the concept of mercy, showing both the good and the bad that can come from it.
See Also: Undertale bringing this idea of Pacifism to the Front of Modern Writing.
I mean considering Sonic’s experiences in the games, it’s not unreasonable for him to have reached that conclusion for himself. S3K with Knuckles (even if he was tricked), SA2 with Shadow, 06 with Sliver (even if that timeline was wiped), Merlina from Black Knight, each of these experiences have shown Sonic over the years the circumstances are gonna vary and that rebounding is not entirely impossible (least when it comes to enemies like Surge).
@@mitchellalexander9162
Undertale didn't do that though, it just went "sparing good killing bad", which i mean isn't bad but far from the concept of criticizing the concept of mercy.
@@funninoriginal6054undertale is a little bit more complex than that, it's whole premise revolves around analysing the whole idea of RPGs and how the protagonists of this games end up killing entire armies just to level up and finding creative ways to not kill your foes
It's a story that only really works in videogame format
4:08:20 it's because of his cockiness nature in some battles when he fight robots and he geniuely have fun it's because of his cockiness, recklessness and his carefree attitude that was always a part of his character.
To this day, I couldn’t believe that Starline got absolutely fucking *S L A M M E D* by Eggman.
Dude is 7 feet tall, nearly 300 pounds, and has time and again survived things that would atomize a normal human.
If it weren’t for Sonic and Belle showing up, he absolutely could and would have rendered Starline into a fine red paste
I actually like the fact that Sonic is called out for being too compassionate towards his enemies, and that there are consequences. Because here's the thing, Sonic is not a 'hero' so to say. Yes he does heroic things, but he does it simply because that's what he wants to do. He doesn't care if he's blamed for his actions. If he thinks its right, it's what he will do, he doesn't care if he's viewed as a villain for doing so. And obviously that philosophy is flawed, but that's what I love about it. It makes Sonic much more than just this one note, perfect hero who can do no wrong.
im actually quite ok with the slower pacing. Mainly because it gives more world building. This isn't just flat characters on a flat canvas in a flat narrative. Its a true world, with thought into it.
I love the part where Eggman like "no I know Miles work he is never this sloppy." Like.thats such a back handed compliment I love it. Tails is my boy love that little dude
At the start, you mentioned not knowing why the Bad Guys wouldn’t just take Starline’s offer to join him, then abandon him after they escape.
Mimic doesn’t want to escape. While in prison, he stands easily the best chance of surviving Eggman. If he were out in the open, he’d be on Eggman’s radar more so than before. But with Starline mentioning removing him from the Eggnet, that little worry became obsolete.
Zavok has a big ego, and he didn’t want to lower himself to working beneath Starline. That worry was also cast aside when Starline said that Zavok would lead them, not Starline.
Rough and Tumble are the only ones that confuse me though
I’d’ve left this on your original coverage of the comic, but this was more recent
I assume rough and tumble are big baby salty mad at what he did to them last time they met
@@isaacargesmith8217 doesn’t really make sense, it was Eggman who betrayed them, turning them into Zombots. As far as they knew, Starline had nothing to do with it.
My theory is that Rough and Tumble just started learning that they cannot trust anyone else but each other. Everyone else they ever work with always fell short of their expectations.
@@I.T.P I'm pretty sure that's the reason they didn't initially want to work with Starline, guilty by association and all that. They did know he worked on the virus with Eggman. Just remember logic isn't their forte
They actually cover this in the 2022 annuals. so
MINOR SPOILER ALERT
Rough and Tumble after having a fight and trying to pair up with other people, at the end they promise each other they are the only ones they will team with.
The peaceful Motobug whos programming they used to pacify other Badniks is the one Mr Tinker was tending to when Starline was trying to return him to normal. Mr Tinker might have a hand in undermining Robotnik after all.
edit: Oh I guess you figured that out lol
Reading all of this in bulk, I find it amazing how this is basically seems to be a set up arc for a rampage of newer foes.
While Surge is an obvious concern, there's also the interest of a certain possum on the rise again, Mimic still being on the loose, and on top of all that Eggman's made a brand new city! AND ITS EVIL!!
It seems like there was an important reason to set up how the citizens operate in Sonic's world and I say that because I feel like they wouldn't have put that nod in without trying to do something with it. Just knowing about a spinoff only focusing on Sonic and Tails for a minute is what makes me think back to that.
The last we see of the denizens of Sonic's world before Issue 50 is people being a little angry about random terror that they don't feel quite reassured on when the Chaotix rolled in to investigate. It seems that even though the platypus fell, a part of Starline's original plan to put Sonic and Tails out of the picture (these two are noted as the most prominent heroes of the planet) accidentally comes to fruition.
What villains are not going to pass an opportunity like that?
I'm kind of curious to see how it all plays out in the upcoming year for IDW. I get the feeling they're going to do a much more interesting arc that's coming up, and this was a great set-up for whatever they have next.
Sonic Heroes is my die hard favorite Sonic game. To see so many callbacks and using gaming mechanics as cannon for this comic series puts a smile on face. Also, Belle's existence is a good way of having Mr. Tinker having some legacy that can live on, like a sprout that can grow into a character of her own. Same as Surge being a separate being to Scourge yet similar qualities.
You know a story and its characters are written well when you just want to run up to the unstable, destructive aquatic killing machine, wrap them in a hug and tell them everything's going to be okay.
Somebody needs to timestamp all of the "calm down shippers" gag. 🤣
2:19:50 I love how Zavoc essentially hears "I refuse to let anything get in the way of my principles" and just says "I can respect refusing to let anything get in the way."
i love the fact that everyone has the subcontous goal of humbling starline
I'm honestly hoping Starline comes back later on in the series. I feel like a backstory is needed on why he was such an Eggman fanboy and why he's such an evil genius. I imagine him going full on mad scientist and is all "The Flash is Weak!" with cybernetics and with the goal of fighting Eggman again and intends to dethrone him entirely.
3:17 Oh this is far more relevant then it should be
3:45:10 this entire page was fucking crazy, she's bouncing around at lightning speed (at the bare minimum) and sonic briefly shows how fast he can be when he's serious, making her look like she's standing completely still when he runs up on her. not to mention how nonchalantly he does it too, great way to show he's been massively holding back since the beginning of their skirmish
I CANNOT wait to dub the Zeti hunt arc! Great summary vid, as always!
I hope starline comes to the mainline games.also great video’s.I still wished we had a starline origin issue. I really wanna see kit and surge’s past in the future issue
Safe to say....Eggman is gonna take advantage of Belle's link to Metal Sonic
I love how despite never changing, OMEGA’s expression looks so smug during the alarm attack.
I love these videos as, like you said you can just put them on in the background and just listen. Keep up the good work.
One thing I love about this is the badass animal villains. I know there was some previously but it use to be lots of eggman and robots which is still around in this. Love Idw and the direction they’re taking it
I feel if Dr starline were to be in a game he would be voiced by Dan povinmire (Doofinshmerts)
Originally and initially I was a bit reticent to move from the defunct Archie line to IDW but when I learnt Iann Flynn was one of the masterminds behind the story I gave it a chance and I don't regret it.
The new characters and arcs in this thing is just... it feels like Archie again, even with all the new restrictions from SEGA, it's just beautiful
Starline is an amazing character as a villain that started from the bottom of the chain of command to become his own man but unable to get out of his obsession with the doctor.
The metal zombie virus really felt like an Archie arc, it made me feel tense and I love that there's actual repercusions that take time to get fixed after the arc is over.
Rough and Tumble have single-handedly made me chuckle whilst also proving themselves as villains that would be fun to fight or play as in a sonic game.
Whisper and Belle make me smile almost everytime they have a word to say. And belle's connection to Robotnik was the cherry on top to explore over these stories. Eggman could have been such a great father if he wasn't narcisistic sociopath.
Tangle is full of energy and life! I can't wait to see more of her whenever I see her on a cover.
The Deadly Six, especially Zavok are robust and solid characters everytime they are featured in, the Lost World did no justice to them at all!
Metal Sonic, both in Neo and normal states have a hundred times more personality than the games ever dared to tread with him even in scrapnik island I am seeing a lot of that 'mute personality' on Mecha Sonic to this day.
Surge and Kit are just a breath of fresh air. I was afraid they were just going to do genderbent Scourge and Fiona but they actually went on to become their very own characters, their very own rivals.
It's lovely to see the next generations of Sonic Comics are in good hands.
You are correct. This IS, in fact, the last time we will ever see starline.
Ian Flynn has confirmed his death, however he did say that if there's a large enough demand, he might bring him back somehow.
I am the demand
It’s ironic that Dr. Starline, the one who killed Mr. Tinkerer, met his demise by Dr. Eggman. A fitting end for the platypus if you ask me.
also congrats for the 130k Nick! Hope to see you delve on more stuff esp. Fleetway!
Yknow, for a manipulating villain, Starline sure does get manipulated a ton!
I just realized IDW likes to make ground slams to assert the domination of a character XD
Gemerl slams the female Zeti to the ground; Meta Sonic slams Surge to the ground; Eggman slams Starline to the ground... I think there's another one but I can't remember
2:13:00 I love that I *truly* LOVE that- pissed off Sonic gets me so worked up, it's SO GOOD!
It's moments like these I don't mind that Sega mandated him as a Gary Stu. Unlike most Mary Sue/ Gary Stu characters Sonic can still have some range of emotions and expressions, may always win a fight but not every argument and can admit that his philosophy isn't perfect but he will accept the consequences regardless.
I would be completely blind to the series if not for your videos, you're fantastic!
Dude, there should just be a Sonic Spinoff series where all the characters that aren't from the main game can thrive without limitations of the main cast. Most of the characters IDW introduced are so interesting.
Congratulations on the 132k Nick! Keep up the great work bro 😁👍
32:50 if not for a certain bot in a series that just started, Zavok is legit my fave sonic comics character, absolute insanity when you look back at the game he came from
I really hoped the Shadow Chao would be Shadow's and the race was his hidden hobby
The words "Sonic universe pimp" hit me like a train.
Amazing video i love your content. It is so much fun analysing the chapters and See how much i get right and what i got wrong about the story with the help of your Videos. Thank you for making my afternoon so enjoyable.
If it weren't for this guy I would have very minimal amount of access to IDW, thanks for giving me a chance to read this without losing my bank account!
I absolutely LOVE Starline, Surge, and Kit. Starline is a more... progressive reflection of Eggman, without the sheer experience and power.
Surge and Kit are my favorite. From their incredibly dark origins, to their manipulaion by Starline, as well as the genuine friendship between them, they are just very enjoable. They are their own people determined to survive and be their own individuals in a world they beelieve is rotten and stagnating. I honestly want to see them win, I want to see them grow closer and surpass their creator. I love them so much.
Im hyped and ready for the scrapnik island speed reading, i don't have the money to buy the idw books yet so you are my gateway to the stories and your amazing at it!
The thing about Eggman is that he is prideful of what he makes. He takes personal offense when his stuff is destroyed, especially Metal. Belle, while being made by Mr Tinker, is still made from a different side to Eggman. Despite how cold he may act, the fact that he let Belle leave without trying to destroy them like he would normally do to faulty badnics shows that his pride carries over to the creations he made durring his time as Mr.Tinker. Belle is exactly what "he" wanted her to be, and he is proud of that, even if he doesn't realize it.
Now that’s one HELL of a Thumbnail
I just know that clutch and mammoth mogul would be the biggest underworld ops to each other. Two enterprising lowlifes that get embarrassed by children almost routinely
3:48:07 Has anyone seen that dub with SatAM Robotnik's voice? It's awesome.
the fucking “xvi- I mean Twitter” joke aged like fine wine
3:46:31,
That price of art, of surge attacking sonic reminds me a lot of the Genos vs Saitama fight.
Now Im not poetic, and don't have much to say.
It just seems that surge was giving her all, while sonic just sees it as another Tuesday. What surge thinks as a epic final showdown to the death. Is just another obstacle to sonic.
Which is said in the video basically I'm just copying it lol
That “Crazy old purple thing” might be a reference to Crinkly Wrinkly from the show “OK KO, Let’s Be Hero’s”
(They even had a crossover with sonic and tails in the show)
In the end, he was all talk. . . A Quack Doctor.
Starline’s last stand with Ivo Robotnik made me remember why in our current age Eggman is still a massive threat and confirmed for me that Eggman is my favorite sonic character ever. Yeah sure he’s a goofy eggman but he is still Robotnik he is still a huge threat
MAN! Wheh eggman is drawn completely black like that he looks SOOO COOL, the IDW comics have given me a new respect for him!
God I love that Scene of Eggman rising out of the Egg emperor's remains.
Starline is one of my Favorite Sonic characters because he TECHNICALLY made my new favorite character, You know her, You Love her, My Girl *SURGE.* And also his Character, his design, is amazing
2:34:39 There is only one card in a tarot deck that could make any reader hesitate like that and its The Tower card which tldr is basically devastation or chaos. Its not a good card to draw alone but in context sometimes it can be a lot better especially if its reversed.
3:16:28 THEY MADE SURGE DO THE FAMILY GUY DEATH POSE, I CAN’T BREATH
Filler can be good, you just begrudge it because oh you want to get to the main plot that's where the juicy details are, or at least that's how I think a lot of people feel even if they don't realize it. However as we got into these stories I was more excited to see them, wasn't too worried about the over all arcing plot with how interesting and good the side plots are. It allowed us to delve into the characters, which was a change of pace, despite how old these characters and this series are we don't know much about some of them. What they do in day to day life, their likes, interests beyond obvious like oh Tails does machines, Knuckles is rude but cool, and Sonic is a... wait a minute.
Moving on from jokes, I always hate the amnesia trope, it's way over used, but here it worked because something actually came out of it, not just a bunch of cliches, and gave us a lot more and new stuff such as Belle. The delving into Sonic's moral ground that newer fans probably don't know, but for older fans recognizing it falls in line with his Adventure, Heroes, 06, and Black Knight self. Metal Sonic always happy to see and his character built on each time, and of course Starline's whole journey through all this. I wouldn't even be upset if he did survive, he was so well written, I wouldn't even complain if he showed up in the game, oh and how could I almost forget that epic fight between Eggman's big machines, and oooh standing out of the rubble in the shadows, that creepy smile, showing us how and why he is terrifying, that he isn't all talk a goofy cartoon of a character, that he is actually a threat and can back up his claims.
4:20:54…
So close. So very, *very*, close.
Comic 53 spoilers
I like how they've done Starline being a specter that haunts a lost, destructive Surge. She's going only be a weapon without a purpose the way she is, a monument to starline in the worst way.
Rouge is the best addition to Sonic in, like, forever.
HO-LY-SHIT That thumbnail is incredible 👏
Zavok really is a lot more interesting in the comics
Evan Stanley!? As in "Ghosts of The Future" Evan Stanley!? I didn't know she became an official Sonic artist and writer that's amazing!
Got to love the added tfs reference in response to the mcnosehair reference
I cant lie I love listening to this man read it’s comforting and interesting and I don’t have to buy the book. I watched ever last one of his videos that are a few hours long.
Only odd thing about Shadow I found in this is that Shadow is on billboards for Chaos Soda during Chao Races. He doesn't feel like the kind of person to sell out and take a brand deal although I'd love a short comic showing how Shadow was convinced to do it like maybe Rouge pretended to be his manager so she gets the money and they take photos of Shadow under false pretences, like pretending it's a photo shoot for Ultimate Lifeform Monthly magazine.
Ah, but would he be the kind of person to bother suing the creator of the billboard if it was unlicensed?
Or:
Would he even notice/care about it in the first place since he has other priorities at the time?
@@helsturm5867 Depends if the billboard makes him look cool or not.
Man I like IDW Zavok more than I was expecting
You can’t keep telling the shippers to calm down. It drives them into a frenzy!
I feel like Batman would consider sonic a friend after hearing sonic say he ain't gonna sacrifice his principals out of fear regarding his no kill rule.
Why you do this to me?! I, like everyone, assumed that was his lower jaw. I can't unsee that, man! Also, "Gears and Starters" is a phenomenal surprise line, because it's specifically derived from "Stars and Garters", an actual exclamation of surprise, albeit an uncommon and old-timey one.
Starline like other " assistents that betrays Eggman" mistake the lack of foresight when he deals with Sonic, as Eggman being a idiot and then get caugh off guard with the amount the Dr actually has.
I think Eggman does not show that much foresight in his plans against Sonic, because he knows its pointless. No matter how far ahead he plans Sonic and co are unpredictable
Take Sonic adventure 2. There Eggman knew Sonic planned to give him a fake chaos emerald. He tricked Tails into revealing it WAS a fake emerald, and then shot Sonic with the same fake emerald into space in a pod that was going explore.
There was NO WAY that could fail, it was planned perfectly. But somehow Sonic was able to use chaos control with a fake chaos emerald and escape death.
Eggman knows more then anyone that, with Sonic and friend its impossible to plan ahead and try to predict what happens. So, just go wild and HOPE he has the luck to hit Sonic for once.
4 hours?
Damn, this is gonna take a while