Done both the Upper and Lower Gauley a bunch of times, and have been lucky enough not to get stuck in either of those holes yet! Somehow the only hole I've had to surf out of on the Gauley so far was the one in the center left of Tumblehome. Was on my Upper Gauley PFD, but I was the only one who knew the lines and so I was leading my group of 6 and turned around to make sure everyone was still behind me, and went sideways straight into the hole in Tumblehome. Luckily if you can get your bow facing surfers left, it's really easy to get out of.
@@NChillbilly Based on how it was named, Insignificant is an ironic name for the rapid. In case you didn't know, on one of the early runs, a group was in the big pool above the rapids and someone asked about the rapids. Someone else replied, "There's nothing significant between her and Pillow Rock ". Big surprise right around the corner!
The moral of the story is don't try to sneak the rapid if you don't know the line, because if there's a massive hole/strainer/voracious dinosaur waiting for you then you won't see it!
Unfortunately I know that, I just botched the line! I've run the Lower Yough and Double Hydraulic around 70 or 80 times, was just screwing around and paid for it. Lmfao, I was trying to do the "squiggly wiggly" line, where you ferry in front of the first hole (that I ended up surfing in by mistake) then cut back to the left before the 2nd hole just downstream ( the one that clocked me in the face and knocked me back over after my 1st roll attempt) I just started out with a bad angle, realized I wasn't gonna make the ferry in front of the 1st hole, so I tried to bail and run the left side of it instead, but wasn't going nearly fast enough and got caught. A series of unfortunate events if you will!
@@tankmaster1018 I've always thought that Squiggly Wiggly is the line that cuts back left (about 0:18 or 19) to skirt the left side of the hole. Like so many other places, the line you were going for is often referred to as the scary ferry. I've run DH pretty much all of the good ways without blundering into the top hole, but I've probably only run it about half as many times as you, so fewer opportunities to mess up.
I promise it's alot better now! Haha this was a couple of years ago. I'll still miss them once in awhile, but usually manage to get up on my first roll attempt these days. Thanks for watching!
Yeah of course, always love talking to people who are curious about whitewater! So the situation and problem I ran into in this video both stem from a river feature that is known as a "hole." They are formed by water pouring over a rock, dropping some distance, and then recirculating back in on itself. You know how when you slap the surface of water, you briefly make a hole with your hand before the water springs back with enough force to make a splash? Now just imagine that same thing happening on a continuous basis, the water constantly being forced down from the force of pouring over a rock, and then curling back on itself, with water actually moving against the current back upstream. It's called a hole because from river level, it looks like an actual hole in the water from the force of the pour-over forcing the water downwards. So here is where the issue comes in. If you are in a whitewater kayak and enter a hole like I did without any downriver speed, or with a sideways angle, the water that is recirculating back upstream from the pour-over is powerful enough to stop a kayak dead in its tracks and hold it in place. The two ways you make it through holes are either having enough speed that your kayak can slice through the backwash and reach the water moving downstream again (plugging) or by taking a last second stroke with your paddle to keep the bow of your boat facing upwards, allowing you to basically jump your kayak over the hole and avoid the backwash entirely (boofing). In this video, I failed to do either of those things and got stuck in between the water flowing over the rock, and recirculating back upstream, and because it behaves like an actual hole in the water, it's not as simple as just paddling out on either side since the water flowing downstream will now be way higher then where you are sitting when stuck in a hole, making it almost impossible to paddle out of without building up enough potential energy in the hole to gain enough speed and lift to escape. Getting stopped in a hole where it completely stops your boat and holds it in place is referred to as "surfing" in the kayaking community. Usually people do it for fun and on purpose in smaller higher volume kayaks called "playboats" but when the holes get big enough you can accidentally end up surfing if you make a mistake like I did in this video. So when I was stuck in place and side surfing, you can first see me take some forward strokes and try to get out on the right side of the hole, realize that isn't going to work which is when I looked behind me at the left side of the hole to see if it was any better, and when it wasn't that's when it's time to let the hole flip you and reach your paddle down to try to grab the water flowing out of the bottom of the hole, therefore washing your boat out upside down so you can roll it back up. I timed my first roll badly and got knocked back over immediately, then botched a few more since I needed air and was rushing through the proper roll setup position. Sorry to be so long winded, but you sounded genuinely curious, and I can talk all day about how to get into whitewater kayaking, and what to expect.
To add to the explanation, a hole is occasionally referred to as a vertical eddy. Even if you're not familiar with whitewater features you're probably still aware that when current flows past or around a rock there will be an eddy of (usually) calm water behind the rock. In some cases there will be current flowing pack upstream towards the rock. When the water is high enough to flow over a rock instead of around it the eddy starts to disappear and, depending on the rock and the water flow, a hole can form. Some holes are fun to play with, and some (especially below a "low head" dam) will keep you more than long enough to scare you badly or even drown you. They can also be violent/chaotic and may have rocks in them. There are 3 common routes at Double Hydraulic (a name for a hole with a strong recirculation). The easy one goes down the right side and it's easy to avoid both holes (the second hole is much more user-friendly). There are also two challenging lines that go left of the triangular rock just upstream of the left side of the first hole. When you come around the rock the current wants to dump you right into the left side of the hole. You can see that current next to the rock at the lower left of the frame around 0:15 to 0:17. You can make a fairly hard left turn and squeak past the hole or graze the left end by making a hard left turn. The other challenging option is to continue below the triangular rock and "ferry" above the hole until you can clear the right side of it. A ferry means pointing you bow upstream(ish) and letting the current flowing down the side of your boat push you sideways. Done properly it can be an almost effortless way to move across the river, often without moving downstream at all. Tankmaster didn't get turned upstream, so the current carried him downstream and into the hole as he tried to paddle across the river above the hole. A 4th option is to just go right through the hole, but that's mostly done by rafters who are either confident or confused. You can see a good view of both challenging lines from the shore by pasting these into the end of address bar in place of the current video: watch?v=h3ZKATcxMCM and watch?v=EV3xjvYMdZo (shortened in case Tankmaster hasn't set things to allow a direct link). The second one shows how the ferry Tankmaster meant to do works.
@@overlandaf_adventures472 Yeah I would have washed out immediately. The kayak has all sorts of buoyancy and floatation since its designed to stay high in the water to not get swamped by big whitewater features and pulled under. So if you get stuck in a hole while in the boat, you just basically sit there stuck until you manage to either paddle out, or pop the boat out by ramming the nose or stern into the pour-over, and using the momentum from the kayak popping back to the surface to clear the backwash of the hole. So if I had pulled my skirt and swam, I would have immediately sunk under the recirculating water, and washed out of the bottom of the hole. The rapid is only literally 60 feet long, just two holes back to back, so I would have washed out of the hole and entire rapid in around 5 seconds if I swam. If you go back through my history, I have another video called "How not to run Double Hydraulic" where I swam the same rapid before I could really roll, and you can see how quick I washed through the rapid once I swam.
It was me trying to ferry in front of the first hole, realizing I wasn't going to make it, and trying to bail out to the river left, but not having enough speed to get over the hole by that point from my moment of indecisiveness
There isn't a rapid on the right side though, it's just a sneak. I was trying to do the "squiggly wiggly" line where you ferry in front of the first hole, then cut left and miss the 2nd hole. I'd done this river over 50 times when this video was filmed, and so I was just trying to take the most challenging lines possible to warm up for the Upper Yough run I was doing the day afterwards. Still totally screwed it up! The Lower Yough is awesome for beginners and experienced paddlers, because even though all of the rapids are just class II and III, there are class IV lines you can do in a handful of them to keep it challenging no matter how many times you've been down! If you go way back in my video history, I have a Lower Yough PFD video where I did the far right line you suggested in your comment. If you check that out, you'll see that the right side is literally flatwater. Good sneak for beginners, but most intermediate to advanced boaters who run it do some variation of ferrying between the 2 holes to make things interesting. Thanks for watching, and have a good night man!
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Nothing wrong with getting out of a sticky hole still in your boat.
And that was what we call "a learning experience." Well done not swimming though. I'm serious, you just refused to give up, big time respect for that.
Thanks a bunch man! Really appreciate the kind words
Guy: Nearly drowns
Friends: "Woo hoo!!!"
F'ing terrifying. As a surfer who has taken beatings in big cold surf, river hydraulics and strainers are nightmare fuel.
Funny, since I've always wanted to try surfing, but am terrified by the wave beatdowns and hold downs i've seen!
You went right in there sideways 😂 brings back memories. 👍💪
they came, they did, they had no clue, they made it through and brag to you lol
That was nasty. 😂
I took a look at your general posting, and I subscribed. ❤
A cboaters advice-don’t ever get off that downstream brace in a hole. If you do prepare to windowshade.
That scared me and I’m sitting at home with my cat
I've used my body as a sea anchor before too 😂
he was in a low head dam wier
That's why it's called the man line! I've been chundered there more than i care to remember..
Way to hang in there 🤙
It’s the Waka!
Impressive beatering
Lmfao, thank you! Not my best attempt at the Squiggly Wiggly line by any means...
lesson learned hard way, is always remembered
He didn't swim it was not learned the hard way.
Nicely survived 👍
You did just fine. Far better than many in the same situation. You can try Insignificant or Hellhole on the Gauley next.
Done both the Upper and Lower Gauley a bunch of times, and have been lucky enough not to get stuck in either of those holes yet! Somehow the only hole I've had to surf out of on the Gauley so far was the one in the center left of Tumblehome. Was on my Upper Gauley PFD, but I was the only one who knew the lines and so I was leading my group of 6 and turned around to make sure everyone was still behind me, and went sideways straight into the hole in Tumblehome. Luckily if you can get your bow facing surfers left, it's really easy to get out of.
HaHa. That one will catch you by surprise.@@tankmaster1018
Insignificant got me my only swim on my pfd on the Upper. The name is really misleading.
@@NChillbilly Based on how it was named, Insignificant is an ironic name for the rapid. In case you didn't know, on one of the early runs, a group was in the big pool above the rapids and someone asked about the rapids. Someone else replied, "There's nothing significant between her and Pillow Rock ". Big surprise right around the corner!
Damn! Talk about a keeper hole 😮
The moral of the story is don't try to sneak the rapid if you don't know the line, because if there's a massive hole/strainer/voracious dinosaur waiting for you then you won't see it!
Unfortunately I know that, I just botched the line! I've run the Lower Yough and Double Hydraulic around 70 or 80 times, was just screwing around and paid for it. Lmfao, I was trying to do the "squiggly wiggly" line, where you ferry in front of the first hole (that I ended up surfing in by mistake) then cut back to the left before the 2nd hole just downstream ( the one that clocked me in the face and knocked me back over after my 1st roll attempt) I just started out with a bad angle, realized I wasn't gonna make the ferry in front of the 1st hole, so I tried to bail and run the left side of it instead, but wasn't going nearly fast enough and got caught. A series of unfortunate events if you will!
@@tankmaster1018 ah man, shit happens! All part of the fun. We all need a nasal enema every now and again to remind us of our place! 😄
@@DrRepper Nasal Enema... I'm gonna have to remember that one! Lmfao
@@tankmaster1018 I've always thought that Squiggly Wiggly is the line that cuts back left (about 0:18 or 19) to skirt the left side of the hole. Like so many other places, the line you were going for is often referred to as the scary ferry. I've run DH pretty much all of the good ways without blundering into the top hole, but I've probably only run it about half as many times as you, so fewer opportunities to mess up.
Stayed in the boat...well done. I'll stick to sea kayak surfing with hard sand and occasional rocks.
That must have been one of the longest one minutes in your life.
Next to me try the nice green tongue to river right .
Retired pro tip, work on your roll.
I promise it's alot better now! Haha this was a couple of years ago. I'll still miss them once in awhile, but usually manage to get up on my first roll attempt these days. Thanks for watching!
Still got the GoPro 😂
Esse vídeo é show de bola falou
What is that? Never heard of it before
@@tankmaster1018He likes the video.
nice roll up...
Can someone explain the situation and the problem please?
All I can see is that the kayak suddenly seem to stop in the stream….
Yeah of course, always love talking to people who are curious about whitewater! So the situation and problem I ran into in this video both stem from a river feature that is known as a "hole." They are formed by water pouring over a rock, dropping some distance, and then recirculating back in on itself. You know how when you slap the surface of water, you briefly make a hole with your hand before the water springs back with enough force to make a splash? Now just imagine that same thing happening on a continuous basis, the water constantly being forced down from the force of pouring over a rock, and then curling back on itself, with water actually moving against the current back upstream. It's called a hole because from river level, it looks like an actual hole in the water from the force of the pour-over forcing the water downwards.
So here is where the issue comes in. If you are in a whitewater kayak and enter a hole like I did without any downriver speed, or with a sideways angle, the water that is recirculating back upstream from the pour-over is powerful enough to stop a kayak dead in its tracks and hold it in place. The two ways you make it through holes are either having enough speed that your kayak can slice through the backwash and reach the water moving downstream again (plugging) or by taking a last second stroke with your paddle to keep the bow of your boat facing upwards, allowing you to basically jump your kayak over the hole and avoid the backwash entirely (boofing). In this video, I failed to do either of those things and got stuck in between the water flowing over the rock, and recirculating back upstream, and because it behaves like an actual hole in the water, it's not as simple as just paddling out on either side since the water flowing downstream will now be way higher then where you are sitting when stuck in a hole, making it almost impossible to paddle out of without building up enough potential energy in the hole to gain enough speed and lift to escape.
Getting stopped in a hole where it completely stops your boat and holds it in place is referred to as "surfing" in the kayaking community. Usually people do it for fun and on purpose in smaller higher volume kayaks called "playboats" but when the holes get big enough you can accidentally end up surfing if you make a mistake like I did in this video. So when I was stuck in place and side surfing, you can first see me take some forward strokes and try to get out on the right side of the hole, realize that isn't going to work which is when I looked behind me at the left side of the hole to see if it was any better, and when it wasn't that's when it's time to let the hole flip you and reach your paddle down to try to grab the water flowing out of the bottom of the hole, therefore washing your boat out upside down so you can roll it back up. I timed my first roll badly and got knocked back over immediately, then botched a few more since I needed air and was rushing through the proper roll setup position. Sorry to be so long winded, but you sounded genuinely curious, and I can talk all day about how to get into whitewater kayaking, and what to expect.
Love the thorough explanation
To add to the explanation, a hole is occasionally referred to as a vertical eddy. Even if you're not familiar with whitewater features you're probably still aware that when current flows past or around a rock there will be an eddy of (usually) calm water behind the rock. In some cases there will be current flowing pack upstream towards the rock. When the water is high enough to flow over a rock instead of around it the eddy starts to disappear and, depending on the rock and the water flow, a hole can form. Some holes are fun to play with, and some (especially below a "low head" dam) will keep you more than long enough to scare you badly or even drown you. They can also be violent/chaotic and may have rocks in them.
There are 3 common routes at Double Hydraulic (a name for a hole with a strong recirculation). The easy one goes down the right side and it's easy to avoid both holes (the second hole is much more user-friendly). There are also two challenging lines that go left of the triangular rock just upstream of the left side of the first hole. When you come around the rock the current wants to dump you right into the left side of the hole. You can see that current next to the rock at the lower left of the frame around 0:15 to 0:17. You can make a fairly hard left turn and squeak past the hole or graze the left end by making a hard left turn. The other challenging option is to continue below the triangular rock and "ferry" above the hole until you can clear the right side of it. A ferry means pointing you bow upstream(ish) and letting the current flowing down the side of your boat push you sideways. Done properly it can be an almost effortless way to move across the river, often without moving downstream at all. Tankmaster didn't get turned upstream, so the current carried him downstream and into the hole as he tried to paddle across the river above the hole. A 4th option is to just go right through the hole, but that's mostly done by rafters who are either confident or confused.
You can see a good view of both challenging lines from the shore by pasting these into the end of address bar in place of the current video: watch?v=h3ZKATcxMCM and watch?v=EV3xjvYMdZo (shortened in case Tankmaster hasn't set things to allow a direct link). The second one shows how the ferry Tankmaster meant to do works.
@tankmaster1018
If you would of bailed out of the kayak would you of gotten out of that quick?
@@overlandaf_adventures472 Yeah I would have washed out immediately. The kayak has all sorts of buoyancy and floatation since its designed to stay high in the water to not get swamped by big whitewater features and pulled under. So if you get stuck in a hole while in the boat, you just basically sit there stuck until you manage to either paddle out, or pop the boat out by ramming the nose or stern into the pour-over, and using the momentum from the kayak popping back to the surface to clear the backwash of the hole. So if I had pulled my skirt and swam, I would have immediately sunk under the recirculating water, and washed out of the bottom of the hole. The rapid is only literally 60 feet long, just two holes back to back, so I would have washed out of the hole and entire rapid in around 5 seconds if I swam. If you go back through my history, I have another video called "How not to run Double Hydraulic" where I swam the same rapid before I could really roll, and you can see how quick I washed through the rapid once I swam.
just watched one twice this bad. bigger holes, surfed twice for minutes then swam into a log jam. made it out, but
Know exactly which one you're talking about! The beatdown and swim on Sweetwater right? Yeah that one was insane...
Sometimes you punch the hole sometimes the hole punches you. Good fight though.
What river and rapids was this? Yikes.
It's Double Hydraulic on the Lower Yough
What river is this?
It's the Lower Youghiogheny in PA
This is fun, trying to keep your head above water? Some people . . .are gluttons for pain.
Looks like line was to far right?
It was me trying to ferry in front of the first hole, realizing I wasn't going to make it, and trying to bail out to the river left, but not having enough speed to get over the hole by that point from my moment of indecisiveness
the better main line was on right side...
There isn't a rapid on the right side though, it's just a sneak. I was trying to do the "squiggly wiggly" line where you ferry in front of the first hole, then cut left and miss the 2nd hole. I'd done this river over 50 times when this video was filmed, and so I was just trying to take the most challenging lines possible to warm up for the Upper Yough run I was doing the day afterwards. Still totally screwed it up! The Lower Yough is awesome for beginners and experienced paddlers, because even though all of the rapids are just class II and III, there are class IV lines you can do in a handful of them to keep it challenging no matter how many times you've been down! If you go way back in my video history, I have a Lower Yough PFD video where I did the far right line you suggested in your comment. If you check that out, you'll see that the right side is literally flatwater. Good sneak for beginners, but most intermediate to advanced boaters who run it do some variation of ferrying between the 2 holes to make things interesting. Thanks for watching, and have a good night man!