How to Install a Heat Pump That Works
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- #heatpump #vaillant #airsourceheatpump
In this video, we are going through a full retrofit air source heat pump installation.
Here I am installing a Vaillant Arotherm Plus 3.5kW unit in a two-bedroom bungalow.
License ID: Bz8gMPb6mqO lickd.lnk.to/N...
Thanks for all the content this year, hands down the best plumbing/heating videos on RUclips.
Thank you for watching! Merry Christams and a Happy New Year!
Jeff, what medication are you on, Dracula is a Transylvanian Cowboy!! I wouldn’t let him into my house to change Tap Washer!!
@@UrbanPlumbers I'd happily have the coal fire that heats the radiators and hot water back rather than just a room heater multifuel stove which we still run 24/7 even tho we have air source the fire does a good job
Fully agree. I’m proud of my plumbing but I still learn bits from your videos. Merry Christmas all!
Hi Urban Plumber , really enjoy your videos , got a quick question for you .
Hot water priority on Ideal Logic2 Max System , is the live switch for heating connected at 1 In and hot water switch live to 2 In ? , I’ve done this settings and the boiler would fire at maximum flow temperature on heating and hot water call , any ideas what I’ve done wrong? I’ve use Hive V3 Thermostat.
Thanks.
never has hydronic plumbing and HVAC been so elegantly presented in a media format....wonderful production value, and craftsmanship
You are a credit to the profession, from good quality videos like this to helping people on the forums, a true inspiration for your fellow heating engineers. Looking forward to more in 2023, enjoy your holidays!
Thank you, Merry Christmas 🤶
We installed two Misubishi Zuba mini-splits in Yellowknife before I left for vacation! (Cold climate air source heat pumps). They were still running at -25 celcius! Below that the backup heat came in! Saying -3 C is cold is pretty amusing to me haha You guys can definitely switch everything over to heat pumps! Great video!
It does get below -3 but not often.
I have an Arotherm 7plus installed, and it is my third winter. One room always struggled to get to temperature. I recently balanced my radiators using delta T of about 5C. This made a huge difference, and all of my rooms now get to the desired temperature.
PS, double-check that the external thermometer is measuring the actual temperature. Mine was 2C out, so I've adjusted with an offset.
Very informative and well put together video. At nearly 60yrs old with many years on the tools I'm finding this technology extremely interesting.
Another super install Szymon! You are without doubt the best installer I’ve watched. Super diligent in every aspect. Merry Christmas and thanks for some amazing content this year!
Merry Christams Sam and thank you for watching!
I was glad to hear that this two bed bungalow has a heat loss of 3.7kW. I recently did my own heat loss calc for my three bed bungalow (also well insulated) and got around 5kW which makes me think I am in the right ballpark.
Thank you Simon for your expertise, you and your team ,Peter & Gregory were a pleasure to work with ,welcome any time. Merry christmas to you all ( even Peter!!!!)
Brian, it’s been a pleasure. Apologies for Peter destroying your home sign. I hope he comes back to do chores for you now!
Merry Christmas 🤶
Hope you don't mind my asking how much did the heat pump consume during the cold spell, Brian?
@@singlendhot8628 We missed the cold spell. As soon as we fired the heat pump the weather got nice.
However in 10C outside the HP is ticking along at around 400 watts, on my other jobs 5 and 7kw heat pumps would run at around 1.2 - 2.0kW depending on the house, heat loss, etc...
@@UrbanPlumbers Interesting. We are also registering the same kW usage of ~ 2 kW on our AroTherm+ installs.
Interestingly, our Viessmann 200-W installs are running at full modulation - 2.2kW of gas at 10 degrees C and 5 kW at -5 degrees, which is actually cheaper per kWh.
Mine are running at 400-500 watts when it’s 10c outside
Very good to see the professional approach to doing the job properly which of course includes doing the calculations and correct selection as well.
I find some ASHP manufacturers are reluctant to provide all the heat output information for different ambient and flow temps which means you have to guess or select another manufacturer!
Brilliant video. Debunks a lot of myths about heat pumps not working in cold weather. Thank you 🙂
I’m a happy man. We just had some brutal frost days and my system running at 0.3 weather compensated and setpoint at 20C. Duty cycle is 50%, so there is loads of margin. This is geothermal however. I’m hitting a COP of 4.5 this month. And this will drop a little each next month till the regeneration starts in spring when the passive cooling system starts. This is also vailllant, the best there is.
11 months ago you were struggling, good to see the positive change with heat pump installs now!
Syzmon, it is such a pleasure to watch a professional engineer who is on top of his game, doing top quality design and installs and who has such an obvious pride in his work. You have come a long way from that first heat pump install.😉👍 Have a good Christmas.😀
Cheers Norman! Have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year!
I just came across you by chance when I was doing some research a few months ago to get myself a new boiler.
I'm just a regular guy, zero experience in heating installation (I'm actually a teacher) but your videos inspired me to choose my new boiler very carefully and I continue to really enjoy watching all your content.
One day in the not too distant future I'm planning on installing warm water underfloor heating in our kitchen and I'll be watching your videos again for help in choosing the best and most suitable system - and maybe even referring my installer to your content before they do the work for me!
Keep up the great work!
Cheers, Michael
Excellent :) Concise, clear and transparent.
Great video Szymon! Wishing you a very Happy Christmas and looking forward to following more of your projects in 2023.
Szymon?
@@grzegorzknebel6706 He's the Urban Plumber - Polish I believe?
The problem with pure weather compensation as a control strategy is that heat loss is also dependent on wind speed and solar input. Therefore, in my experience the optimal regulation strategy is using weather compensation with an adjustment based on room temperature. I believe the Vaillant controller allows for this.
yes it does - so called active mode
I've got a heat only Ideal boiler, been mulling over adding Load Compensation (Nest OpenTherm) or Weather Compensation (Ideal Sensor Kit). I've been thinking the same, that adding the weather compensation kit to the boiler and keeping the Nest with on/off controls (not open therm) is the way forward. Not least because I have far more confidence it will work, being the manufacturers own kit - I'm unsure just how well a Nest will talk to a heat-only Ideal boiler over OT.
The only issue I have is I can't seem to run it lower than 50 deg C flow temp, it starts cycling as it can't dissipate heat quickly enough. Either my flow rate is too low, balancing is a bit out or (most likely) my 30kW boiler is oversized for my medium size 4-bed detached and can't modulate low enough :/
Although I'm unsure about ideal boilers, especially without model details, you're able to reduce the heat output on most modern boilers through the parameters. Might be worth looking into further
@@hazzzzzzzzzz16 looking at the manual, the 30kW can modulate down to 6.1kW - which I think is too much to keep my house ticking over. The 24kW (and all lower powers) can modulate down to 4.8kW.
I should have insisted on the 24kW - but the plumber said 30 would be better. If better means it heats the house up quickly, he'd be right!
1.3kW extra doesn't sound too big though. So maybe I can improve things with a re-balance and pump speed setting.
I want to make sure the boiler can run happily at a low flow temp before I go buying the weather compensation kit.
I was wondering about this - what happens if you have say a house with a big south facing window (or conservatory) - when the sun comes out can generate a lot of heat, but also loose heat overnight etc.
I’d like to see a power consumption over a few weeks as this gives you an idea on costs forget solar panels and battery back up just now
In the winter my jobs have been averaging 20 - 40 kWh per day
Thanks Szymon: Another excellently clear video.
Thank you Michael!
Thanks for your great videos. I work in IT but watching your channel allowed me to diagnose a fault with my old s-plan system and get it repaired at very low cost.
I'm in North London and want to upgrade to a heat pump solution next year, I hope you will be able to install it for me?
very neat external installation, love the trunking work
We have Mitsubishi heat pumps on commercial install and recent cold weather they would shut down and go to defrost , we had no underfloor heating.
There’s enough glycol to actual go down to -12.
Mitsubishi says there heat pump is working fine !
Another Mitsubishi install , spends all day heating water and then turns to heating with 10 fan assisted radiators as soon as pipe temperatures at the radiators drops below 30 degrees they shut down.
They have spent thousands on these systems.
Looks beautiful. Dobra Robota panowie. Dzięki za wszystkie filmiki bardzo inspirujące. Pozdrawiam i wesołych Świat. Czekam na więcej w nowym roku.
Not all of the UK have a night tarriff (cheaper). Thats why we have the data on ground and air source for a good while. Its still cheaper to run gas over the year if you have a cylinder installed in your property especially with the costings of electric being 3 times more than cost of gas. I get it, combis are the reason gas bills are so high for most people. Its funny you mentioned the positions of units, as thats why most (ashp) were ripped out in first place. Bet the vaillant board will blow on the unit interface aswell as we all know how well pcbs perform from them in time lol
Great job with a really well made video! I have checked with several Viessmann 200-w gas boiler (which also has advanced weather compensation, like the heat pump and can modulate down to 2.2 kW) customers over the past few days. Sub zero temperatures led to very similar costs to the heat pump installs. Said another way, savings were minimal, if any, without the massive upfront cost!
So while they will save £ compared to older inefficient boilers, heat pumps won't really achieve much savings against a V200 unless something else changes dramatically. Worth considering for those in flats or who don't have the budget for an AroTherm+
Merry Christmas to you, all Heat Geeks and thank you for the 20 odd videos you created this year!
the savings are minimal because here, in the UK, "dirty" solar/wind electricity cost 25% more because of the green levy and "clean" domestic gas has no such burden.
> don't have the budget
then government should subsidize installation for them. as a taxpayer I would rather pay for HP installs rather than fines for carbon reduction agreement violations.
I look at it the other way, why fit gas boilers this day and age. Heatpump combined with pv and smart tariff (octopus), you can isolate yourself from gas prices+fluctuations and get roi in 5-7 years.
If you're on a newish boiler or poorly insulated building i agree with. though plenty of people still going for boilers in newer type buildings.
@@SBTRIS I can try to explain why:
1) Solar PV on its own does not perform in Winter. Even a 5 kWh system will generate no more than 300W an hour for 4 hours on average UK winter days.
2) Upfront cost of £6-7000 over and above a Viessmann 200-W (installed) after the BUS benefit is factored in.
3) Property incompatibility - no external space to fit the unit in a way that meets design spec and does not anger the neighbours.
If you're running a non-condensing boiler, a 10 year old boiler or an oil boiler, get a heat pump without any doubt. But if you cannot get a heat pump for any of the above reasons, get a Viessman 200-W.
You do realise gas prices are going to keep going up faster than electricity? At the moment the price ratio is 3.5x but that will come down to around 2x when the green levies on electricity are transferred to gas (which is being planned). At 2x a heat pump is a no-brainer.
Our gas prices are over 3 to 4 euro's per m3 already. I get electricity at 0.40c per kWh. Heatpumps are already a no brainer in a lot of countries. Then I have solar aswell. Any kwh's i feed to the grid, Im allowed to use as credit later that contract year. I dont pay anything per month atm. I get money from the electric company.
Thanks and Merry Christmas 🎄 🤙🏼💪🏼
Thank you Dean. Marry Christmas 🎄
Great video thanks, highlights how simple these systems are and like the honesty.
Jak zwykle zajebisty film, dzieki, Wesołych.
You mentioned that you had trouble with 1 unit not heating sufficiently because it would go into defrost too often.
What would you consider too often to be, with my Ecodan I found defrosts occur more frequently when it was closer to zero. e.g. -1 -2 a defrost happened every hour and took about 5-10 minutes. As it got colder and the humidity is locked away in frost it was running two hours between defrosts.
Every hour is fine. Mine was doing it every 25 minutes
Brilliant work ! Really wish you folks serviced North Yorkshire…
It's amusing heat pumps are coming into their own during the current global conditions while bev's are now equal to or more expensive than ice to run (until the spring budget).
I could get away with a 7kW (currently 9kW heat loss) but I'm loathed to actually convert my own property over, just haven't the time.
In the mean time I'm trying to convince one of my business partners to actually put forward weather comp and hot water priority controls when estimating for boiler changes. Putting forward a Vaillant boiler as a heat only replacement you may as well put forward energy efficient and future proof controls. Sadly he is strongly against heat pumps and having people pay "so much" for energy efficiency.
Great video, and yes air flow/location and freezing rain seem to be the biggest issue now with heat pumps. I got fed up of being called out as a break down engineer last winter to iced up blocks so did some research, poor air flow + lots of water is the number 1 reason for icing and poor temperatures. Learning more every day.
What is meant by poor airflow? at back too close to wall? just home owner here interested in heat pump
video coming soon on this, in my case it is a unit located in a narrow alleway and recirculating cold air going into deforst every 20-30 minutes
Wish these heat pumps had the option for a ground coil or thermal buffer/battery to be more easily added as an upgrade, ours works amazingly 98% of the year when CoP is 4-4.5 but when the temperature crashes the consumption with CoP around 1.8-2 is enormous, about 100kwh/day.
Have a hard time seeing the grid deal well with household consumption tripling whenever temps dip to -5/10 (we already lowered our inside temp to 19 to help lower costs!)
I agree. And even if the grid manages to cope, that electricity will have to come from expensive peaker plants. Ideally, a small heater powered by bioethanol, wood pellets or even propane or heating oil, would be a useful addition. Or, even better, an electrical generator feeding electricity into the grid and using waste heat to heat the house.
That’s the truth spelled out loud!
These pumps are good(read economical) only if the outside temperatures are in positive!
One should over-size its pump in order for them to have higher CoP on minus T.
Never ever oversize a heat pump
@@stormtrooper9404 Ours worked well when we had a -10 to -15 cold snap for a few days, used about 80-100kwh a day to keep us around 20c inside (display says use was 190-220 kWh of heat!)
HP was sized for a full house but we're currently living in the finished section so a bit oversized for our current situation
I suspect the problem will be partially solved once we fix our doors as we could clearly feel the cold drafts
Its really interesting seeing you do this, but I at this point I really struggle to see people spending the money with an external installer(Such as myself) when there is all these government grants that go to the usual folk. Its the same as the free central heating, freezing the small guys out.
You can install under the Heat Geek umbrella and get the BUS funding. Have a look into that. The best umbrella scheme out there.
Nice work Szymon, great video.
Thanks Craig!
What about airco-split unit.
I use one a boat and last here is -10c .
And yes the unit have to go in mode to heat the out side unit
Is somting i can do so it not freeze .
More out of the wind .
A wooden somting to set over it with some holes.
So its out of the wind it self
Yes a boat you read it correct .
I can heat with diesel fuel .
But that cost more and its smoke what come out is not always nice .
Thank you for some tips .
Or if you have a video .
All things will help.
Great video. Please do a video on the ashp survey process and the heat loss calculation. Selecting building construction and U values. It would be greatly appreciated. I use heat engineer also but unsure If im using it correctly.
Another great video, thanks.👍
One of the biggest complaints, Ive heard about heat pumps over the years, is that they struggle when it gets very cold! The argument from Manufacturers and heat pump installers, is that the countries like Norway, Finland and Sweden use them! but what design temps are they using in those countries?
If we are designing them for -2 and the tempreatures go to -10 they arent going to be able to cope! You yourself said exactly that and Vaillant manufactuer an inline back up heater, which isnt a heat pump, but a 6KW Immersion heat exchanger!
Are home owners informed of this, before purchasing these heat pumps, that they would be prudent, to buy an expensive backup, if it gets colder than the design of -2?
You are a highly skilled and diligent heating installer and you have admitted that there is a very fine balance to get these systems right.
I'm not convinced we have got it right here yet!
I'm sticking with my Vaillant Combi ,its in doors, in the dry! If it gets to minus 10, I crank the temperature up and it keeps me warm, because it has built in resiliance and the capacity to heat the central heating water up to about 80 degrees in any weathers.
And my Condensate pipe dosent drain outside😀
Looks nice. Got installed Panasonic Monobloc unit 5kW few weeks ago. Happy so far :)
I heard good things about Panasonic, haven’t seen one yet
I have a heat pump it was thrown in by a company who took the money and ran left me with horrendous bills.Complain to who no one wants to know MCS installed all the correct products installed.but utter useless left me high and dry.We are looking into it my top team are on it 2 Years I have been getting the deaf ear off Dynamis.Buyer Beware.The flow is colder than the return sick of telling them this.Your videos are spot on by the way and Heat Geek
Dobra robota Szymon. Dzieki za kolejny fajny material. Pozdrawiam sg gas
Another excellent presentation, this has really got me thinking about what I need to do
Excellent video and explanation. Job well done!
Wielki szacun. Świetny film.
You should have left the boiler in place. Here in Scotland the new estate next to our house had air source heat pumps fitted from new. They have all been retrofitted with gas boilers. If I had to have one of these I would fit a Webasto Diesel heater in the loop, from a scrap yard these are only a hundred pounds or less and provide 5kw heat on demand for the colder days.
Where I live our gas comes from a digester using waste from the whisky distillery so the gas is renewable. Love gas.
Lovely job guys. Merry Christmas.🎅
thank you and Merry Christams to you Brian.
Another quality video from yourself 👏🏼
One query I have, Vaillant specifies that a 15 litre buffer is recommended for the size of heat pump installed in your video (as a minimum ) for deicing purposes, when the heat pump goes into defrost cycle.
What's your opinion on this?
Won't the heating system be robbed of heat, therefore becoming cold, on the days the heat pump enters this cycle, without a buffer?
Thanks again for sharing your videos & knowledge & may you long continue to do so!
All the best ☺️
Inspired! Great video.
Brilliant matey, looking forward to more of your content next year, happy Christmas 🎅🎅
You mentioned changing the radiators, but do you also have to change the size of the flow & return pipe work to radiators?
Sorry to point this out but heat pumps return less heat the colder it gets, its a fact of physics, the colder it gets the more power that they use to try and pull heat out of the air that isn't there.
There comes a point where heating via electric heaters is more efficient.
There never comes a point when direct electric is more efficient mate! Not till -15c outside.
Very nicely explained video, thank you! Very informative and much appreciated as most videos about heat pumps I've watched just don't deal with the technicalities in the way you do. One question leaps to mind if I may... As the output from the external heat pump appears to be hot water directly to the hot water cylinder and radiator circuits, does this mean there are no refrigerant connections to make and no refrigeration work involved? So does this mean I could legally fit an aroTHERM in my own house without personally holding F Gas qualifications? Thank you!
Yes, it a monobloc so no fridge circuits to deal with. No need for F gas to install one.
Another great video. Merry Christmas to you too🎄
Hi Mikael, hope all is good with you. Merry Christmas !
Really good video. I am trying to find the sweet spot on water only weather compensation mode on my LG.
When you carry out a heat loss calculation do you allow anything extra for hot water or is it a given that the ASHP will handle that as well due to the 3 port valve?
Dear, its normal in 1 hour to have 2-3 times turn off the compressor ? When pump will reach set temp? Outside temp avg 5-6 C , water temp 34, combination of radiators and floor
???
I'd really like to know the power consumption of heat pumps. Been working this year on a private new build, and this guy has gone to the limit with insulation: extra thick walls with 4" kingspan in the cavity, 4" studwork lining all external walls with another 4" kingspan between the studs, 4" kinspan under the solid floor, 4" kinspan between the trusses and multifoil underneath them. Low E double glazing. Underfloor heating. Ducted ventilation and heat recovery system. And since all the internal joinery is oak, he's following advice and only very gradually heating up the building (not yet occupied.) Professional heat pump installers fitted the system. The stat is set at 16 degrees, yet the fan and compressor outside seems to be running constantly.
This was was running at 400 watts with 10c outside. Didn’t get a chance to test it at sub zero.
using heat pump manufacturers controls is absolute critical to a successful. In the case if the senso comfort, best to use Extended adaptive room modulation and adaptive heat curve. then the curve changes according to indoor demand
I am not 100% this is the best method. It runs at higher flow temps as inside temp and comfort is a priority.
I will be testing all modes at my own place and making video of my findings.
My intuition tells me active mode without adaptive should be best.
@@UrbanPlumbers if you are open to learn, you will have a happy outcome
i’ve been doing weather comp on vaillant controls on gas boilers for 15yrs, i use adaptive on them all. It’s a bit shocking when you go to a victorian property with rads on gas boiler with vrc700 and find the curve is 0.65 and everything at temp. you ask your self if you left it that low!
Yes I can see it working well on gas. Not convinced on HPs yet on adaptive
Another great installation🛠
Thank you 🙏
Thanks Symon. Clear as ever. Is the trace on condense included with Vailiant or is that your idea?
It is build into the heat pump
Cool! But I prefer self-made ground source heat pumps. Recently, at -18stC outside I had COP 5,21:1. It's very warm and energy cost is very low: 14kWh per day. Movies are on my channel!
great video, well explained
Fascinating stuff!
Thanks Szymon, a very interesting video and something I could/should consider and especially given the current cost of gas. Forgive me if I misheard, but did you say you would include a link to a heat loss calculator?
Card in the video
Do you absolutely have to calculate to 21°? We find that to be uncomfortably hot and only keep our poorly insulated but not damp property at between 18 and 19° degrees in the daytime, down to 14-15° overnight.
You don't - but if you do you can always run the unit lower. Better to calucate to 21 and then run it at a weather curve that maintains 18C if you chose to.
@@UrbanPlumbers I see, thank you so much for the explanation. 👍
Hey, thanks for the informative video. I work as a mechanical design engineer on commercial properties but interested in this as a career. How much detail do you go into when doing the heat loss calculations, you would need to know the U-values but can imagine you make a few assumptions on this? Also, how often does the property need a full retrofit, e.g. new larger rads and bigger pipework due to lower flow temps? I believe this property was okay as it was already running at 40 on gas the same as what a heat pump would run.
Love your videos!
Great information and video, thank you.
Glad it was helpful!
Your videos are great. I'd love to get into the renewables sector but I'm not a plumber or electrician and don't fancy a lengthy 4 year apprenticeship with v minimal money at 30 years old. Maybe there are other things I could do in the sector
at 30 you are still young enough to make a successful switch. There are other areas of renewables you could go into such as specifying and design, but those would also take you some years of study and practice before you could make any money out of those.
I would not look at it from a financial perspective alone because switching careers to something you have not done before will always mean you have to go through a period of intense learning with possibly very little money in it.
If you like to work with tools and can enjoy a bit of engineering and problem-solving - then just go for it.
Renewable installation is hard work and long hours - so if you go for it for the money, you will quit pretty quickly. On the other hand, it can be the most rewarding and satisfying work ever. You need to enjoy the process though and be ready for tough periods and moments of frustration.
I would suggest finding a reputable renewables company in your area and ask for an apprenticeship or laboring position. Try it for a month or two and see if its for you. If you are half decent with tools and you have the right attitude a good employer will reward you quite quickly.
I would rather hire someone with the right attitude and no experience than an experienced person with a bad attitude. An honest employer will also be able to tell you pretty quickly if this is for you or not.
@@UrbanPlumbers Solid, heartfelt advice!
Great video.
When installing, are there usually problems indoors finding space to fit thee required indoor units such as water tanks, pumps (if any) and controls etc? No every body has a large loft, in most cases such as me, just what was a bathroom airing cupboard that now houses the existing water tank and electric boiler.
Airing cupboard is all you need
That was awesome! Nice video. Great explanations and great detail. Nice work! One question- on that one unit that you mentioned was not maintaining temp on that cold day, you , mentioned you needed to move it because of poor airflow? I assume this was the outside unit and how could you tell it was airflow?
yes outside unit. I could tell it was the airflow, as when we moved it (at the same outside temp of -3) the output improved quite a bit and the unit stopped going into defrost 3 times per hour.
Video about it is coming soon, as the unit is still propped up on a piece of wood, so have to go back and move it properly.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks!
Q: If the old system was set to 42´C how was the legionella threated?
I also quess that pipe+gravel will not be enough for the water. There are days that the unit creates tens of liters of water and all that also create water load on the foundations.
its what is called hot water priority. It runs at 2 different flow temperatures - one for heating at max of 40C and one for DHW at up to 75C
That pipe and gravel have been already tested in very cold weather with units defrosting quite often and it works perfectly.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thanks for the answer. DHW temp management has been around quite some time. Danger comes with older systems when the users are not aware of the legionella issue.
Great that the ground accepts all the water. Have seen many cases where it has saturated on certain weather.
I suppose it may not be needed in the given climate, though the boiler retrofit negates the possibility of cooling with the heat pump.
Loce watching these videos thankyou
I love that you live watching them!
Theres the whole argument of whether it is more efficient for condensing boilers to be kept running or to be turned on to fire up only when needed, I suppose my question is do you believe it is more efficient to leave an appliance on (boiler or ASHP) and adjust the flow temp when needed rather than turning on and off ?
Way more efficient to keep a condensing boiler or a heat pump running at low output and WC - if controlled well, as many Viessmann 200 fully weather compensated installations have proved time and time again.
@@UrbanPlumbers Also with setback temperatures
Great job thanks for your efforts and sharing your experience with us 😊
I am trying to understand how using the weather compensation approach would work for a working family when there is only need for heat in the morning and evening. Whilst I understand that this allows the pump to operate most efficiently to maintain a constant temperature, heat would be wasted during the day when it isn't needed. Do these systems allow this to be compensated for by accounting for room temperature in order to "boost" back up to the desired setpoint?
Yes you set a lower set back temperature (2-3c lower) than your comfort temp.
You can’t fully turn heat pump off in the winter as on cold days it will take hours to get back to comfort levels.
You only need one antifreeze valve ? Mine was fitted with two one on flow and return same unit with unittower tank
Yes, one is enough
Looking forward to the video you validate/confirm the SCoP and performance claims based on your installations. Baffled how they can get >4 in sub zero with air to water systems.
They don’t. In sub zero my jobs range from 2.3 to 3.3 (best one I am aware of). But in temps around 3-9c some of my jobs were above 5! Most well above 4
I don’t have a job that has run over a year yet as started installing on Jan 2022
Loads of videos on cop and scop coming next year once I have more data
@@UrbanPlumbers is there a system to monitor the SCOP? My intergas Xource only allows me to see realtime data.
Maybe a modbus datalogging system or something you could recommend? Or would installer gateway allow for this?
@@Deiphobuzz Vaillant allows you to see cop and scop data on the interface unit
@@UrbanPlumbers Damn. Wish it could be at least 3.54 (To at least be at parity with gas central heating)
I'll get a heat pump eventually but I want to make sure my house is air tight first. Often when people say their house is well insulated, they're not considering air tightness.
I'll add more solar panels, make my house air tight, add an MVHR, get triple glazing, make my radiators bigger (if needed, but I'll probably have to replace them anyway because they need power flushing), and THEN get an air source heat pump
@@waqasahmed939 parity with gas is 2.98
If the soak away is to stop water creating sheet ice on the path by the machine, wouldn’t the antifreeze device opening create this problem anyway?
Yes, but it doesn’t open under normal operating conditions
most excellent.
We are running an 11kw Viessmann on weather comp. The pump is always running - is this an issue for the pump?
When it's cold the boiler modulates and everything works great, when it's a bit warmer the boiler cycles quite a bit as it cannot modulate below 3.2kw. How much is too much cycling? How do you reduce the cycling? And could we go hybrid and do the low end requirements with a small heat pump and cut over the gas at say 5 degrees outside when boiler runs all the time at min modulation - and if so how ?
The loft looks like a "cold" loft - will the hot water cylinder not lose heat (even though it's insulated? Would it not be better to have cylinder in the warm part of the home?
those cylinders are so well insulated that I doubt it would ever be a problem. There is loads of them in unheated garages as well.
What tool were you using when you capped the gas off?
Press fit
Is your primary loop glycol? Or does the circulator just never stop? I'm curious what would keep the exterior water lines from freezing when the temperature dips to say -10*C on the odd day that might happen if the heat pump were to stop for some reason.
As always, fantastic video.
@@zlmdragon. I saw that, but draining a system due to low temp isn't ideal, more of a last resort option to prevent damage. I was more trying to ask, what normally keeps it from freezing.
My intergas xource just runs the heatingpump at 15% all day when it dips below 5c and no heat is required.
Home owner here, I need to replace a 1980 regular boiler and probably a lot of plastic non-insulated pipes. Would heat engineers recommend copper pipes these days over the plastic?
always copper over plastic, especially on heat pumps.
some engineers like plastic some not
@@UrbanPlumbers hi, great vid, what size of copper pipe would be best? Is it the bigger the better? Thank you
@@memecoinmafia2732 it's not about engineers - it's the heat pumps that do not like plastic. I just do not work on heat pumps unless you go a size up compared to copper and use press-fit instead of push-fit.
@@UrbanPlumbers okay cheers , i didn't know plastic pipe was a problem for heat pumps ...why is it a problem ?
Heat geek seal lol😂 love it. But to be honest a great install
Thank you for this video recorded in the cold.
I’ve noticed the heat pump has been installed directly outside a window. Is noise going to be an issue if someone seats or is asleep inside?
Unit is super quiet - and I dont think they sleep in the ktichen ;)
@@UrbanPlumbers
Thanks. Was only asking because the most suitable location in my property is directly outside my bedroom with just the window and the wall in between.
Great Video as always, but there is one thing that surprised me:
You advise to no use the temp sensor in the Sensocomfort 720 controller. This feels somewhat counter-intuitive to me, because the heat pump then has no way of knowing if ot has reached the desired room temp. So it might be working hard, heating up the water for your underfloor heating or radiators, but the room Thermostats might have already closed because the room temp has been reached...so the heat pump would be working for nothing...this is an issue for me with the current gas boiler that keeps trying to heat the house based on the outside temperature even if the inside temperature is still high enough. The heating "curve" is set to 0.2 and if I drop it lower the smaller rooms won't reach their target anymore...so I thought with the upcoming heat pump O should use the room temperature sensor in the controller...🤔
Another question: how would you set the hot water program? We'll be getting the "UniTower" with 190l of capacity. This should lose about 1kWh of heat in 24h and I wonder if it is better to have the water "always on", always on during the day or set to some "time of use" schedule...
if you use the controller as a thermostat then you do not know if the heat pump is not running a heat curve that is too high. It may not be as efficient as it could be.
If you set the controls to inactive, then you will have to gauge if the property is getting too hot (lower the curve) or too cold (up the curve) and that gives you the best chance to dial the system in correctly.
Once you get the heat curve that is the closest to maintaining the equilibrium then by all means switch to active or expanded.
Regarding DHW I would not have it always on. I would use a time schedule - but the schedule would be different for different scenarios. Use always on if you have high DHW use.
If you have solar PV and solar diverter to DHW, then it makes sense to set DHW for late afternoon to top up solar production (if big enough)
If you have a cheaper overnight tariff, then obviously charge the cylinder at night and maybe even get it topped up higher with the immersion heater after the HP finishes it's cycle.
If it is the summer, and you don't have PV and do not have an overnight tariff then run DHW in the day for better efficiency.
As you can see, there is just too many variables here.
@@UrbanPlumbers
Thanks for your reply. I will play with the options and settings once I get the heat pump. We ordered last July, so it should arrive before next winter...🙈
We have Solar, soon will have a dynamic energy provider (Tibber) and I am doing a lot of automation via Home Assistant, so this will be a nice little project...💪
@@rolandrohde Interested to know how much you expect to be able to get Home Assistant to be able to interact with your solar and heat pump?
@@nickkitson
The interaction with my solar is mainly so I can control things like grid-charging my Solar battery when electricity is cheap and not much solar is predicted.
Concerning the heat pump it's essentially the same. If several hours of excess sun or cheap grid electricity is expected, then turn up the heat pump for that period, after that return it to it's normal operating state.
This can be achieved in a primitive fashion with the SG Ready contact, or more elegantly if the heat pump is directly integrated in HA and offers control over things like the flow temp or hot water temp directly.
Nice Video! I have a question whats the max water temp for this Vailant unit? I have installed LG Therma V Monoblock heatpumps on a system with radiators and it runs 60 C water without any issues
75c
Thanks for the great video. So is the hot and cold side in the outdoor unit or does the refrigerant go to an indoor hot unit where it heats the water up? Just an area I’m unsure about with heat pumps but it looks like it’s all done in the outdoor unit and it’s the central heating water flow and return going outside.
Yes, it's a monobloc so the fridge circuit is outside in the unit and water is pumped from the outside to the inside.
Im thinking the 3degrees is the flow temperature in the pipe otherwise it will drain out alot. Does the system have a cut in so this doesn’t happen?
3c is the temperature at which the valve will open to drain the system water - yes. The system has anti-frost protection and will always keep the system water above 5C unless there is a power cut.
I have a question
I am interested in whether the heat pump by itself is sufficient for a house of 130 square meters with radiator heating, or do I still have to have some backup solution? Area of northern Croatia? How many minus degrees can it effectively heat?
Thanks for answer
you are in such a mild climate that a heat pump is easily capable to do all your heating and hot water throughout the year. We have heat pumps running 200-250m2 houses here in colder and more humid environment
great video again
thank you for watching !
Thank you for the video, but I do have a question regarding using the Heat Curve, soon you find the “sweet spot” you will get the best efficiency as you know that you’re not heating in excess…. My question is, that “sweet spot” is dynamic right? The cooler the temp is outside, that value changes as the building might loose more heat, correct?
Thats the whole pointing the curve - it changes flow temperature with the changes in external temperature
@@UrbanPlumbers we have a quote for a aroTherm Plus VWL 75/6 230V S2 with 120ltr tank (160m2 one floor house, energy class C, 2 adults 3 kids,15y;12y;7y) and all this specs are amazing but all knew to us, just wanted to make sense of the setup, thank you for the patience and the quick answer 🥰👌
@@balexandre afternoon, consider a larger HW tank. We've got 300l and when the family/guests visit it can on occasion run cold by the time they have all showered etc...
250l would be a better option. 120l will be too small
Great video!In Greece many engineers insist to install a buffer tank with heat pumps.What is your opinion?Thanks!
you really want to avoid buffers if you can. They can and will usually lower the overall efficiency of the system. You will need them if the pump inside the unit cannot overcome the pressure loss in the system though.
In the UK they are quite often installed so that the installer does not have to worry about the existing system pressure loss. Very often they are simply not needed.
Ok I must sound a bit dumb to the experts but at two minutes in you talk about a thermostatic valve that drains the unit of water via the return pipe if the temperature goes below three degrees. I was thinking you meant if the air temperature went below three degrees, but I guess you mean the water temperature. I suppose this would only be triggered if the air temperature is low AND the device has been switched off. Is there something that keeps the device running if the temperature is low but there is no demand for heating?
Thanks for a great video! Can you add the Heat Engineer software link?
Why must you dig a soak away, could you not just pipe it to the drain that was next to the heat pump?
link added now
Do heat pumps work with modulating thermostats? My gas boiler talks to my room thermostat to modulate flow temperature based on room to set point temperature difference.