I think you'll like the Tormach, its a great starter CNC. I have one at my shop for cutting aluminum overmold blocks and some tool steel crimper jaws and it works great. It's not a big VMC but hey you can fit it through an office door. For the cost and size they cant be beat, and Tormach has been great to work with. So far mines about 18 months old and the only thing Ive had to replace is a reed switch on my ATC tool changer.
Yeah Walter and as someone who was a total CNC Noob a decade ago and owns two Tormach mills (1100 and 770) I can attest that they are VERY crash forgiving and quite durable. Hell if you crashed a VF2 or a MORI hard enough it would most likely cost more than an entire Tormach 770 just to get repaired! Just remember to hang out around the red button close enough when you are running a program for the first time. This helps you stop that end mill from getting through your aluminum plate and into the table :-). Seriously though I have cut every kind of material imaginable with these machines and as long as you aren't trying to hit +/- 0.0005" tolerances you can do amazing things. Yes the envelope could be bigger, the surface finish could be a little better on heavier cuts and when 3D surfacing (rigidity is a bit limited), but for most any 2D and 2.5D work you are typically good to go. FYI- your sweet spot cutters are going to be 3/8" and less diameter carbide tooling. When working on the 770 I do all my 2D cut outs in titanium, stainless and tool steels via use of 1/4" variable helix center-cutting carbide tools these days. Also, HSM tool paths (i.e. trochoidal) work very well in these materials and both HSM Advisor and G-Wizzard get you in the feeds and speeds ballpark pretty quickly. Oh yeah and when you want to quickly fixture some carbon fiber, G10, or even some wood I haven't found anything more consistently better performing than Nitto (Permacel) P-02 Double Coated Kraft Paper Tape! It's definitely a problem solver for prototyping.
Hi Walter, Being a retired CNC Technician/Machinist I will be following this closely. Most of the equipment I worked with was in the $100,000. plus category and have very little experience with the Tarmac and most of it not favorable. I hope you got the enclosure for it as working properly it will spread chips and coolant everywhere. Make extra care when changing tools that they seat fully. Best of luck. Gerald.
Stellar down to earth description. I also have a 770 as well as a 440, that I use for making my folders. The most important thing I think you stressed is the costs associated RE tooling which easily surpasses the cost of the mill in short order, Heck my vise was $2,000.00. Kudos on explaining the type of person that will learn CNC I think many people think it is super easy and you just put in a piece of metal and push a button. The Tormach is a great machine and I highly recommend it. I am currently working on a series regarding utilizing and learning this mill specifically for Knifemaking. I Am working on Fixturing section which is a series in of itself. I really enjoy your videos. Oh and yes Fusion 360, learn that software while you are saving for the mill LOL thats a big part of the battle for sure
Nice fixture!! I made one similar, but I just do one at a time. Most of my knives have the same distance between handle pins. Looks like you are going to have a similar 'standard' with your fixture. I hope you show more of the process with your CNC. I don't leave a tab for a bolt near the belly of the blade, but I might have to jockey clamps around a little bit more than you do. I've been making knives using a CNC to various degrees for quite a while, as a hobby. I usually make a model by hand to get the shape and feel I want and then install that into a CAD file. I can do as little or as much by hand as I want. Spending more time on the parts of the process that I enjoy and less time on the rest is the best part of having a CNC. In my opinion. Great video! Great channel! Thank you.
Great info on CNC. If you had a basic design for a blade you wanted to mass produce, would you hire a person to do a CAD model, then outsource it to someone with a machine like yourself? I guess my question is..is that the most cost effective way of making a design if you didn't want to buy a CNC mill or go to school to learn CAD?
Looks to me like that control is a conversational control. I haven't spent much time using a mill with conversational programing. I'm too used to looking at G-code after doing it for a few months to want to switch over. But it definitely reduces the learning curve on programing. One of the lathes that we have at work has a conversational control. Very easy to pick up. If you have any questions let me know. Ill do my best to help. P.S. If you want any clips of our HAAS running just let me know. I have about a million of them on my phone. I'm not sure I'll ever get over how cool i think this stuff is.
(crashing end mills) ..." and all this terrifying noise ..." that's a great line. If anyone wants to get into CNC, the main skill to start with before searching out the CNC buy/build/etc is pick a 3D CAD system and learn how to create parts. FreeCAD, Fusion360, OnShape, or others out there. Good desktop CNC on budget is Shapeoko 3, X-carve, or others out there. Get something small to start and move up later. The small CNC can always be used to make those kydex sheath cutouts or handles after switching to the fancy Tormac/Haas/etc for the blades. Search out a MakerSpace near you as another option.
Walter I can see in the video your going to mill the scales on your CNC It would be logical that your cutting out the blades are you planning to bevel the edges of the blades also? When I was working for a living we had a welding shop with a plasma cutter the department got a CNC plasma cutter worked great and I had to do the CAD designs. The plasma cutter ran on electricity and compressed air, low cost to operate very accurate cuts. The edges did get some slag but it was minor. I would love to see a time lapse of a whole build. That reminds my I need to finish that headsman ax it needs an handle.
I have found that beveling your blades cause a few issues, Takes much longer than grinding by hand, warps the steel a bit and devalues the knife, you unfortunately get less money for a 100% CNC knife than a knife that is hand ground.
Interesting that you make reference to John Grimsmo. After watching his videos along with yours for a couple of years now, I was sitting here watching the first couple of minutes of this video thinking "somebody needs to introduce Walter to John Grimsmo". I think he took the Tormach just about as far as it was logical to go with it in terms of production knife making. Anyhow, great video as always. P.S., When do we get to see you machine a Play Doh knife on that new toy of yours? We're all waiting..
Hey, man, thanks so much for the video. I'd like to get started with CNC, to mill lower receivers and slides for guns, as well as do some knife work. I checked the 770 prices, and OUCH! Is there anything a little less expensive for those of us who want to get into things, but don't want to spend $8k+ for something that (for me, at least) will essentially be a cool toy?
"Dont let some douchebag in a forum tell you......." If only we all had a dollar for every douchebag we had to listen to on a forum. Great video. Im a woodworker by trade, and have been researching CNC's for that. But also like playing around with knife making will be cool to see a cnc in action for knife making. 15k seems like an excellent price. Congrats on the new tool and the sale of your son. If only i had a kid or two to sell, the tools id buy!
So besides shaping the basic profile of the blade (which a waterjet can do nicely), what else does it do for you? I assume not only drill but also tap holes. Does it efficiently do your plunge beveling? I have been curious about this myself. Are you using it to mill your handle materials also? Thanks Walter, always enjoy your stuff.
Hi Walter. Do you plan on setting the rough bevels with the CNC too? Just curious if you do, how you do it and if rigidity is a problem when going to the opposite side and stuff like that.
Awesome CNC intro video... One question, What was the brand of chuck you use to hook up the hand file to the CNC again? Man I missed that part... heheheh. Always loved the idea of CNC... BUT, I failed math. However looking forward to watching some video of your T/A knifes coming off the CNC..
wanted to know why you picked the 770 over the 1100 i am looking at getting the 1100 and wanted to know why you picked the 770. just wanted to know why. i know Price can be a big part. and maybe the foot print (size of the machine) but wanted to know is the 770 (175 to 10000 RPM) vs the 1100 (100 to 5140 RPM)
Hey Walter, have you used any thrid-party cutting service? I've been cutting blanks on CNC for a while, and just find out that the cost for a waterjet service is only half my tooling cost. Now going through an existential crisis.
Dale Martin Not really, he just talked about the behind the scenes stuff. If you actually watched it he said he was gonna make a video soon about what actually happened to him and his knife
I'll give you $30 Canadian for the boy of you throw in one of your seemingly endless supply of denim shirts ;) Great Video, I just purchased myself a manual mill that I'm getting up and running.
Says "seven," holds up 6 fingers, and he can still run a CNC mill. You gotta know it can't be that hard. ;) I second Fusion360. It has a sort of test fire mode, that you can see what your cuts will do and how your end product will look.
**Watches Video about CNC-Machining** ........ **Looks at Gough-Custom Filing Jig, the old, trusty hacksaw and that 6mm thick piece of shit 1080 you are sawing for hours** ................... **sigh, followed by horribly loud, squeaky sawing noises**
eric pope yes yes we know and the dog video guy sent you to the cat lady. Might I suggest "get_a_life.com", "friend.com" and may be lonelyanonymous.com
Daniel Ziran-Xu I have yet to but it looks as if it would work, my shop teacher and I have used a plasma CNC to make tongs for the school forge, and it if you over heat the steel you can allways heat treat it in the forge
You are a knife/ sword maker .but most folding knives on the market are cnc clones . But they are being sold with prices as if they were a custom knife that like you say hrs and hrs are spent on . When they are cnc machine made clones of basic user knives that cost like $50.00/ unit . Like crk s $800.00 $50.00 clone . I bought the clone sabenza 25 and $45.00 each .the patent is for 20 yrs . 21 and 25 mean 21 yrs and 25 yrs these designs were patented ! And with cnc mills and high tech this and that they still can't make a folding knife pivot that isn't held and that together with glue !! That is strong ( can resist side to side pressure !!! Technology should make thing work better for less money and better quality ! So called knife makers seam to think that tech means you can charge a shit ton of money for basic knife that didnt take hardly any knife making skill ( to push the button that gets things started ) A real knife maker is needed to supervise ! Low skilled workers ! Now if crk s basic user cnc clones were reasonably priced and the worker got a share in the company ???
I think you'll like the Tormach, its a great starter CNC. I have one at my shop for cutting aluminum overmold blocks and some tool steel crimper jaws and it works great. It's not a big VMC but hey you can fit it through an office door. For the cost and size they cant be beat, and Tormach has been great to work with. So far mines about 18 months old and the only thing Ive had to replace is a reed switch on my ATC tool changer.
An excellent description of a typical journey into cnc ! A must see for most people interested into this area.
Yeah Walter and as someone who was a total CNC Noob a decade ago and owns two Tormach mills (1100 and 770) I can attest that they are VERY crash forgiving and quite durable. Hell if you crashed a VF2 or a MORI hard enough it would most likely cost more than an entire Tormach 770 just to get repaired! Just remember to hang out around the red button close enough when you are running a program for the first time. This helps you stop that end mill from getting through your aluminum plate and into the table :-).
Seriously though I have cut every kind of material imaginable with these machines and as long as you aren't trying to hit +/- 0.0005" tolerances you can do amazing things. Yes the envelope could be bigger, the surface finish could be a little better on heavier cuts and when 3D surfacing (rigidity is a bit limited), but for most any 2D and 2.5D work you are typically good to go. FYI- your sweet spot cutters are going to be 3/8" and less diameter carbide tooling. When working on the 770 I do all my 2D cut outs in titanium, stainless and tool steels via use of 1/4" variable helix center-cutting carbide tools these days.
Also, HSM tool paths (i.e. trochoidal) work very well in these materials and both HSM Advisor and G-Wizzard get you in the feeds and speeds ballpark pretty quickly. Oh yeah and when you want to quickly fixture some carbon fiber, G10, or even some wood I haven't found anything more consistently better performing than Nitto (Permacel) P-02 Double Coated Kraft Paper Tape! It's definitely a problem solver for prototyping.
35 year machinist here walt, great presentation brother !
Hi Walter, Being a retired CNC Technician/Machinist I will be following this closely. Most of the equipment I worked with was in the $100,000. plus category and have very little experience with the Tarmac and most of it not favorable. I hope you got the enclosure for it as working properly it will spread chips and coolant everywhere. Make extra care when changing tools that they seat fully.
Best of luck.
Gerald.
Excited about see more of this. Thanks for bringing us on the journey and explaining your thought process.
Thanks Walter,
Very informative and down to earth. Much appreciated.
Stellar down to earth description. I also have a 770 as well as a 440, that I use for making my folders. The most important thing I think you stressed is the costs associated RE tooling which easily surpasses the cost of the mill in short order, Heck my vise was $2,000.00. Kudos on explaining the type of person that will learn CNC I think many people think it is super easy and you just put in a piece of metal and push a button. The Tormach is a great machine and I highly recommend it. I am currently working on a series regarding utilizing and learning this mill specifically for Knifemaking. I Am working on Fixturing section which is a series in of itself. I really enjoy your videos. Oh and yes Fusion 360, learn that software while you are saving for the mill LOL thats a big part of the battle for sure
Nice fixture!! I made one similar, but I just do one at a time. Most of my knives have the same distance between handle pins. Looks like you are going to have a similar 'standard' with your fixture. I hope you show more of the process with your CNC. I don't leave a tab for a bolt near the belly of the blade, but I might have to jockey clamps around a little bit more than you do. I've been making knives using a CNC to various degrees for quite a while, as a hobby. I usually make a model by hand to get the shape and feel I want and then install that into a CAD file.
I can do as little or as much by hand as I want. Spending more time on the parts of the process that I enjoy and less time on the rest is the best part of having a CNC. In my opinion.
Great video! Great channel! Thank you.
Great insight! Thank you for sharing your experience.
Your one liners are awesome
great video, I have a small mfg business and am looking into the 770 or 1100, cant wait to see the next video
your're such a solid dude Walter for all these videos, Thanks bro
looking forward to more of these!
Great info on CNC. If you had a basic design for a blade you wanted to mass produce, would you hire a person to do a CAD model, then outsource it to someone with a machine like yourself? I guess my question is..is that the most cost effective way of making a design if you didn't want to buy a CNC mill or go to school to learn CAD?
Looks to me like that control is a conversational control. I haven't spent much time using a mill with conversational programing. I'm too used to looking at G-code after doing it for a few months to want to switch over. But it definitely reduces the learning curve on programing. One of the lathes that we have at work has a conversational control. Very easy to pick up. If you have any questions let me know. Ill do my best to help.
P.S. If you want any clips of our HAAS running just let me know. I have about a million of them on my phone. I'm not sure I'll ever get over how cool i think this stuff is.
LOVE the selling your kid part.....
ironmaidenkai at some point they become such a pain in the ass you will sell yours too...
Frederick Kaludis I've been a kid.. I'd have sold me
not helpful around the house....I lost it!!! LOL
How about an update on your impressions of the 770 Tormach. Great videos. Thank you Walter.
Hey, Walt, thanks for the video, informative stuff. Also, glad you fixed the lighting issue with your films. You totally don't look high anymore, sir.
Good information for a someone who wants to start with cnc👍
Never miss an opportunity to brag on your kid. Proud father is proud.
Good approach! Thank you!
(crashing end mills) ..." and all this terrifying noise ..." that's a great line.
If anyone wants to get into CNC, the main skill to start with before searching out the CNC buy/build/etc is pick a 3D CAD system and learn how to create parts. FreeCAD, Fusion360, OnShape, or others out there. Good desktop CNC on budget is Shapeoko 3, X-carve, or others out there. Get something small to start and move up later. The small CNC can always be used to make those kydex sheath cutouts or handles after switching to the fancy Tormac/Haas/etc for the blades. Search out a MakerSpace near you as another option.
Walter I can see in the video your going to mill the scales on your CNC It would be logical that your cutting out the blades are you planning to bevel the edges of the blades also? When I was working for a living we had a welding shop with a plasma cutter the department got a CNC plasma cutter worked great and I had to do the CAD designs. The plasma cutter ran on electricity and compressed air, low cost to operate very accurate cuts. The edges did get some slag but it was minor. I would love to see a time lapse of a whole build. That reminds my I need to finish that headsman ax it needs an handle.
Water jet
I have found that beveling your blades cause a few issues, Takes much longer than grinding by hand, warps the steel a bit and devalues the knife, you unfortunately get less money for a 100% CNC knife than a knife that is hand ground.
Interesting that you make reference to John Grimsmo. After watching his videos along with yours for a couple of years now, I was sitting here watching the first couple of minutes of this video thinking "somebody needs to introduce Walter to John Grimsmo". I think he took the Tormach just about as far as it was logical to go with it in terms of production knife making. Anyhow, great video as always.
P.S.,
When do we get to see you machine a Play Doh knife on that new toy of yours? We're all waiting..
Hey, man, thanks so much for the video. I'd like to get started with CNC, to mill lower receivers and slides for guns, as well as do some knife work. I checked the 770 prices, and OUCH! Is there anything a little less expensive for those of us who want to get into things, but don't want to spend $8k+ for something that (for me, at least) will essentially be a cool toy?
"Dont let some douchebag in a forum tell you......." If only we all had a dollar for every douchebag we had to listen to on a forum.
Great video. Im a woodworker by trade, and have been researching CNC's for that. But also like playing around with knife making will be cool to see a cnc in action for knife making. 15k seems like an excellent price.
Congrats on the new tool and the sale of your son. If only i had a kid or two to sell, the tools id buy!
Man, my heart broke when your blade snapped. Would you do the show again?
Adam Theriault what season and episode was it
the newest ep. s03e14 the naginata. aired on the 31st.
Hey Walter, since you got the machine, is there any chance we're going to see some folders of your design? I think you might give it a shot.
Could you forage a knife then create the bevels with the CNC?
So besides shaping the basic profile of the blade (which a waterjet can do nicely), what else does it do for you? I assume not only drill but also tap holes. Does it efficiently do your plunge beveling? I have been curious about this myself. Are you using it to mill your handle materials also?
Thanks Walter, always enjoy your stuff.
Cool video
can you mill in the bevels as well or just cut out the blank ?
Seen many of your vids . You are the master !!!
Was subscribed but when I clip on this vid it said I wasn't subscribed . Re subscribed!
love the baseball reference. My son was similar, he finished up playing in college and graduated a couplenyears ago,
Hi Walter. Do you plan on setting the rough bevels with the CNC too? Just curious if you do, how you do it and if rigidity is a problem when going to the opposite side and stuff like that.
Awesome CNC intro video... One question, What was the brand of chuck you use to hook up the hand file to the CNC again? Man I missed that part... heheheh.
Always loved the idea of CNC... BUT, I failed math. However looking forward to watching some video of your T/A knifes coming off the CNC..
How much did your cost with the other tools you needed?????
wanted to know why you picked the 770 over the 1100 i am looking at getting the 1100 and wanted to know why you picked the 770. just wanted to know why. i know Price can be a big part. and maybe the foot print (size of the machine) but wanted to know is the 770 (175 to 10000 RPM) vs the 1100 (100 to 5140 RPM)
Hey Walter, have you used any thrid-party cutting service? I've been cutting blanks on CNC for a while, and just find out that the cost for a waterjet service is only half my tooling cost. Now going through an existential crisis.
Unfortunate that your knife broke on the show! I was rooting for you!
if your making a knife from a saw blade do you still have to temper it ?
TheoryZodiac Depends how hot you got it while making it
Also if the whole saw was hardened or just the cutting edge
Sooooooo... I'm dying to hear your take on what happened on Forged in Fire
He just did a video on that a few days ago.
Dale Martin Not really, he just talked about the behind the scenes stuff. If you actually watched it he said he was gonna make a video soon about what actually happened to him and his knife
Hello, please help me for made profil knife for made tip on drumsticks, knife for wood copy lathe
I HAVE THE 770,AND A HAAS MINI, AND I BUILT A 5' X 48" CNC ROUTER....ALOT OF FREE TIME..
the first born part almost made choke on my coffee !
So which side does all the money come out of on the 770 :)
What season and episode did Walter sorrels air on forged in fire?!?! I can't find it
CraverCuts season 3 episode 14 or 15. naginata.
watched it. such a bummer he totally would have won. :/
Was that Fusion 360 I spotted?
What does he mean with drilling? What CAD videos?
I might add, very nice related to CNC reasoning.
how expensive is that CNC machine
I'll give you $30 Canadian for the boy of you throw in one of your seemingly endless supply of denim shirts ;)
Great Video, I just purchased myself a manual mill that I'm getting up and running.
Says "seven," holds up 6 fingers, and he can still run a CNC mill. You gotta know it can't be that hard. ;)
I second Fusion360. It has a sort of test fire mode, that you can see what your cuts will do and how your end product will look.
**Watches Video about CNC-Machining**
........
**Looks at Gough-Custom Filing Jig, the old, trusty hacksaw and that 6mm thick piece of shit 1080 you are sawing for hours**
...................
**sigh, followed by horribly loud, squeaky sawing noises**
*goes back to Gough's youtube channel and sees he's got a big ass CNC machine as well*
(love your videos!)
'Go back to cat videos' hahaha :)))
i laughed to that too.
holynex I laughed
Yeah, I lost it on that one. Coffee all over the keyboard.
I work as a CNC machinist. Please be careful using that thing without any guards.
Ha cat videos !! You caught me Walter ! :P
How much would you make me a micarta handle bushcraft knife
ethan plays Make one yourself, knifemaking is a great and practical skill to have. 👍
my husband wrights cnc programs he can do anything with a cnc machine
WATERJET, CNC, HANDLES, ASSY, GRINDER, FINNISH GRIND, SHARPEN...I AM THAT GUY..BUT NEVER MADE A KNIFE YET...BUT VERY SOON
on the high end you could buy a HAAS. your new at this arnt you?
The cat video lady sent me here....
eric pope yes yes we know and the dog video guy sent you to the cat lady. Might I suggest "get_a_life.com", "friend.com" and may be lonelyanonymous.com
Frederick Kaludis might I suggest farmersonly.com or deadpan.net? #dryhumor
"I'm sorry Walter, I'm afraid I can't do that"
why not use a plasma cutter cnc?
I thought of it and concerned about the distortion it does to the blade. Have you used any plasma cutter for knives? How'd it go?
Daniel Ziran-Xu I have yet to but it looks as if it would work, my shop teacher and I have used a plasma CNC to make tongs for the school forge, and it if you over heat the steel you can allways heat treat it in the forge
Nice. It's gotta be faster than a small cnc.
Can we start a GO fund me page to get Mr. Sorrells a new shirt from this century?
Haha, I even cant sit still for 5 seconds, so I think a CNC is nothing for me :D
John Grimsmo much? 🤔
just check out johngrimsmo
You are a knife/ sword maker .but most folding knives on the market are cnc clones . But they are being sold with prices as if they were a custom knife that like you say hrs and hrs are spent on . When they are cnc machine made clones of basic user knives that cost like $50.00/ unit .
Like crk s $800.00 $50.00 clone . I bought the clone sabenza 25 and $45.00 each .the patent is for 20 yrs . 21 and 25 mean 21 yrs and 25 yrs these designs were patented !
And with cnc mills and high tech this and that they still can't make a folding knife pivot that isn't held and that together with glue !! That is strong ( can resist side to side pressure !!!
Technology should make thing work better for less money and better quality ! So called knife makers seam to think that tech means you can charge a shit ton of money for basic knife that didnt take hardly any knife making skill ( to push the button that gets things started )
A real knife maker is needed to supervise ! Low skilled workers !
Now if crk s basic user cnc clones were reasonably priced and the worker got a share in the company ???
LOL Cat videos : ] Sadly but you're right :}
then see if you can program a human to operate the cnc machine program !
100 thousand for industrial cnc mill? hahaha! I saw an old about 30-50 year old industrial mill and it could be sold for over a milion dollars.
LOL!!! Full disclosure.. not that useful around the house. That is freakin perfect.
Go back to cat videos hahahahaha
Cat videos !!!! hahahahaha X'D