[00:00] This Is Fine: Ryan Enjoys His Fancy Drink [01:15] Preamble & Introduction [11:30] Q&A: History? Spicy? Are They Real? [17:30] Q&A: The Future? No-Build? [25:00] Reading an Old Article from 2018 [31:30] Changing Perspective & Gathering Resources [43:30] Framing the Conversation: What Are Web Components? [50:45] Looking Through Framework Glasses [58:30] Large Teams, Heterogenous Tech, & Micro Front-Ends [1:07:30] Rewrites, Bridges, & Performance [1:17:00] The Framework Mentality & Compromise [1:29:30] Web Components Are The Present: WTF's A Component? [1:34:30] WCATP: The Duality of Frameworks & Standards [1:46:30] WCATP: It's Ok To Be Shiny & The Right Direction [1:56:00] WCATP: Composition, Slots, & Eager vs. Lazy [2:04:30] WCATP: Building Composable Primitives [2:12:15] WCATP: Living Dangerously (Locking In Users?) [2:20:15] WCATP: Standardizing A Templating API & Signals [2:29:30] WCATP: Conclusion - Longevity Supersedes Ingenuity [2:36:15] Web Components Are Not The Future: Recap [2:48:00] Web Components Are Okay [3:00:00] Web Components Are Not The Future Part 2: Attributes & Properties [3:10:45] WCANTF2: A&P - Explicit Convention (. / ? / @) [3:17:00] WCANTF2: A&P - Takeaway [3:23:15] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - Performance [3:35:30] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - The People Part of The Problem [3:44:00] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - Reactivity & Context APIs [3:54:15] WCANTF2: Events - The Importance of Delegation [4:00:00] WCANTF2: Events - Retargeting, Bubbling, & ComposedPath [4:09:15] WCANTF2: Events - Encapsulation & Escape Hatches [4:16:30] WCANTF2: Conclusion - The Cost of Abstraction [4:26:30] Lit Is Not A Framework? [4:35:45] Framework vs. Library Is A Mindset [4:48:45] This Week in JavaScript: Intro [4:51:00] TWiJ: @lit-labs/signals [4:56:30] TWiJ: Solid News - Solid 1.9 & SolidHack! [5:00:00] TWiJ: Solid News - Docs, Tito, ViteConf, Quantum [5:04:00] TWiJ: Brisa [5:11:00] TWiJ: TC39 Signals & Performance [5:18:00] TWiJ: LCP Graph & Svelte Migration Tool [5:20:45] TWiJ: TC39 Presentation on Language Evolution
I create a lot of web components. All with solid js. I like using them over the limited alternatives in the specific environment I have to work in. They're used as reusable helpers throughout all of our different projects. That said, they are not the solution to everything and I'll never prefer to use them over any modern day framework. In my world they solve a few small niche problems. They're also not super compose able, it's a ***ch if you want to use specific properties you've attached to one component within another component. I've had to write specific tools to ensure I can load the correct scripts in the right order. Still watching the whole video, but I love seeing your perspective! I never knew this was such a controversial topic 😅!
So much hate against js frameworks, honestly, JS community is the best and i'm glad that so many frameworks were developed and took FE dev this far. I wouldn't enjoy writing stuff using web components with jquery, or if had to choose between a poor choice of alternatives, imagine having only Angular as an alternative to web components. I love Svelte, I like Solid and Vue. These 3 frameworks brought on the table very interesting designs that were unthinkable at the times of AngularJS vs React vs JQuery, and i'm very happy to have started with jquery, moved to angularJS, then React, then Svelte because each iteration was better than the prev.
Really cool to see you navigate this discussion. Clarifying the definitions, dissecting people's language/logic, and moving things forward. It's like a meta-analysis on patterns of conversation around WCs. I also appreciate how you highlight questionable opinions without being rude or dismissive. It's funny to imagine a world where all framework authors removed support for web components (not that I think that's a good idea atm). It undermines universality/effortless interoperability argument that WCs ride on once it's clear that they are propped up by the thankless efforts of the very same framework authors being criticized. WCs as a render target sounds interesting. I hope there is some sort of better solution moving forward cuz it seems like tedious overhead for framework authors, a sunk cost if anything.
[00:00] This Is Fine: Ryan Enjoys His Fancy Drink
[01:15] Preamble & Introduction
[11:30] Q&A: History? Spicy? Are They Real?
[17:30] Q&A: The Future? No-Build?
[25:00] Reading an Old Article from 2018
[31:30] Changing Perspective & Gathering Resources
[43:30] Framing the Conversation: What Are Web Components?
[50:45] Looking Through Framework Glasses
[58:30] Large Teams, Heterogenous Tech, & Micro Front-Ends
[1:07:30] Rewrites, Bridges, & Performance
[1:17:00] The Framework Mentality & Compromise
[1:29:30] Web Components Are The Present: WTF's A Component?
[1:34:30] WCATP: The Duality of Frameworks & Standards
[1:46:30] WCATP: It's Ok To Be Shiny & The Right Direction
[1:56:00] WCATP: Composition, Slots, & Eager vs. Lazy
[2:04:30] WCATP: Building Composable Primitives
[2:12:15] WCATP: Living Dangerously (Locking In Users?)
[2:20:15] WCATP: Standardizing A Templating API & Signals
[2:29:30] WCATP: Conclusion - Longevity Supersedes Ingenuity
[2:36:15] Web Components Are Not The Future: Recap
[2:48:00] Web Components Are Okay
[3:00:00] Web Components Are Not The Future Part 2: Attributes & Properties
[3:10:45] WCANTF2: A&P - Explicit Convention (. / ? / @)
[3:17:00] WCANTF2: A&P - Takeaway
[3:23:15] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - Performance
[3:35:30] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - The People Part of The Problem
[3:44:00] WCANTF2: Lifecycles - Reactivity & Context APIs
[3:54:15] WCANTF2: Events - The Importance of Delegation
[4:00:00] WCANTF2: Events - Retargeting, Bubbling, & ComposedPath
[4:09:15] WCANTF2: Events - Encapsulation & Escape Hatches
[4:16:30] WCANTF2: Conclusion - The Cost of Abstraction
[4:26:30] Lit Is Not A Framework?
[4:35:45] Framework vs. Library Is A Mindset
[4:48:45] This Week in JavaScript: Intro
[4:51:00] TWiJ: @lit-labs/signals
[4:56:30] TWiJ: Solid News - Solid 1.9 & SolidHack!
[5:00:00] TWiJ: Solid News - Docs, Tito, ViteConf, Quantum
[5:04:00] TWiJ: Brisa
[5:11:00] TWiJ: TC39 Signals & Performance
[5:18:00] TWiJ: LCP Graph & Svelte Migration Tool
[5:20:45] TWiJ: TC39 Presentation on Language Evolution
I create a lot of web components. All with solid js.
I like using them over the limited alternatives in the specific environment I have to work in. They're used as reusable helpers throughout all of our different projects. That said, they are not the solution to everything and I'll never prefer to use them over any modern day framework.
In my world they solve a few small niche problems. They're also not super compose able, it's a ***ch if you want to use specific properties you've attached to one component within another component. I've had to write specific tools to ensure I can load the correct scripts in the right order.
Still watching the whole video, but I love seeing your perspective! I never knew this was such a controversial topic 😅!
I discovered solid js not too long ago and it became my favorite framework
Dang, I wish I could have showed up for the stream! I'm saving this to watch on my road trip 🤓!
So much hate against js frameworks, honestly, JS community is the best and i'm glad that so many frameworks were developed and took FE dev this far. I wouldn't enjoy writing stuff using web components with jquery, or if had to choose between a poor choice of alternatives, imagine having only Angular as an alternative to web components.
I love Svelte, I like Solid and Vue. These 3 frameworks brought on the table very interesting designs that were unthinkable at the times of AngularJS vs React vs JQuery, and i'm very happy to have started with jquery, moved to angularJS, then React, then Svelte because each iteration was better than the prev.
Really cool to see you navigate this discussion. Clarifying the definitions, dissecting people's language/logic, and moving things forward. It's like a meta-analysis on patterns of conversation around WCs. I also appreciate how you highlight questionable opinions without being rude or dismissive.
It's funny to imagine a world where all framework authors removed support for web components (not that I think that's a good idea atm). It undermines universality/effortless interoperability argument that WCs ride on once it's clear that they are propped up by the thankless efforts of the very same framework authors being criticized.
WCs as a render target sounds interesting. I hope there is some sort of better solution moving forward cuz it seems like tedious overhead for framework authors, a sunk cost if anything.
0:31 starts
You're doing God's work 😊
@@leon_forte you haven't seen what Jesse does :) he timestamps the whole 5 hour streams :)