Definitions of aeronautics: A Propeller's direction of rotation is classified while viewing the propeller with the engine placed behind the propeller. A Paramotor is viewed from the back, a Airplane is viewed from the front, and a Helicopter is viewed from above. Turns to the Left = Counter Clockwise Rotation = Left Handed turn Turns to the Right = Clockwise Rotation = Right handed turn (Think of the steering wheel of a car and the car's resulting direction) The Aeronautical standard is the propeller "Turns to the Left" and the engines are configured accordingly.
Electric paramotors might save us from torque by using an even number of propellers (2, 4, 6, etc) spinning in opposite directions. I say electric because this would be easier on them versus using two propellers on a combustion engine. With battery advancements e-Paramotors are the future and torqu is one of the reasons, IMO
+Gian Carlo Martinelli yes. This is true. But 4 small props are significantly less efficient than one large. The little energy that you can store in batteries gets wasted... I would rather use one large prop and compensate the torque some other way
if the weight of a counter-rotating prop and gearbox would be an issue maybe use something like the counter-rotating props on a quad or a trike where weight isn't as big as issue. that way you can take advantage of 2 props and maybe get more speed or better climb rate. I realize this is thinking outside the box. most of your paramotors are engineered extremely well but this would be something to consider
Great videos Thanks. I really like the scout paramotor except for one detail, why is the prop behind the cage? Most new paramotors are this way. I have had the lines tangle up in the prop several times during ground handling mistakes and it was a big mess, splintered prop, crushed cage, broken lines and some times it pulls the lines out of the wing.
Yes I understand this. Looking at the paramotor from the side the prop is behind the outer hoop by a few centimetres. If it was forward a few centimetres it would be within the outer hop and it would be much harder to have the prop tips catch a line and wind them up.
yes, you are right. The engine sits on rubber mounts and moves inside the cage. If we would set the engine deeper inside the cage, the prop might hit the cage spars. So the solution for the SCOUT would be making the hoop wider rather than move the prop deeper into the cage. But in fact its not necessary. The prop sticks out only about 2 cm (
Awesome series. I immediately agreed with the belt vs gear reduction systems being no different but I had a thought that if the engine pulley had a bit more mass to it wouldn't that counteract at least some of the torque? I know weight is our enemy so it's just a thought. Keep the videos coming!
+StarFyter1 increasing the mass would slow down throttle response. Trust me flying a 800grams prop is really different from 1100grams. It's noticeable. But overall, acceleration torque is not a big deal. It vanishes within a fraction of second. The big deal is the constant rpm torque that you face throughout the whole flight. And that has nothing to do with weight, shafts and wheels.
Hi, first of all nice videos! what about if you are light and you fly a big paramotor? can you "compensate" the torque by simply reduce power? example if you are 60 Kgs and you fly a 200cc... or its not advisable at all? (during take off) Thanks! Roger
I understand weight is a big factor in paramotoring but could you use a gearbox that used two counter-rotating props ? I would think you would get an advantage from thrust out of two props but there might be a weight disadvantage as well.. great videos I'm watching them over and over again picking up little tidbits of information. it really seems like you have worked out all the fine details and trying to make the best all-around paramotor. you have me sold I'm waiting on financing as we speak... thank you for the videos and I always look forward to more videos and information
Was thinking the same thing Mike but assumed it would increase weight. I think counter-rotating props would induce turbulence and decrease efficiency so by the time you get larger props to combat that, you're still too heavy.
A stable coaxial-rotor system is a lot of weight and requires a larger engine. Addendum: You also have to put up with the very mind-numbing audio Harmonics.
You cannot change just one thing on a propeller. Increasing the pitch without changing anything else would make the engine not be able to reach its max RPM, that is you would not get max power from the engine. If you increase the pitch, you need to make the blades more slim = lower blade area. It is very experimental what combination is the best. As a general rule, the larger the prop is, the more efficient it will be. Reason is simple: the center part of the blade has no thrust. The tips have no thrust (wingtip vertices) . Its only the middle part of the blade producing thrust. with longer prop blades you have longer middle part.
if a 3 blade prop is more efficient than 2 blades,, why don't we see it more often? wouldn't it just make more sense? saving fuel and all? another tangent question,, why didn't you design the carbon shroud a bit wider so the props can benefit from the ducted design?
+Hazza Bani Malek 1. I have tested a 3 blade prop. It was probably slightly more efficient but difference was minimal. The sound was amazing however! 3 blades cost more than 2 blades. 2.i have studied that. To have relevant gains of ducted fan the gap between the propeller tips and the hoop must be super tiny (less than 5 mm). This is not possible with single cylinder combustion engines as they shake too much
it makes sense why we always see it in electric motor applications. I believe that you know what you are doing and talking about,,, more than what I can say about other manufacturers. And I wish you all the best in your endeavours. one more question though,, in my search, I couldn't find any weight figure for any of the combinations you manufacture (cage + engine),, now I noticed in one of the first episodes you said only the inexperienced would ask that,, and you're right, I am,, but don't you think it's essential for us beginners so we can size our wings properly?? many of us can't/don't have the luxury to experiment.
Can anybody help I just change my motor mounts and all the sudden my motor has way more torque and it's pulling me straight down to the right. Like the machine is unflyable
Definitions of aeronautics:
A Propeller's direction of rotation is classified while viewing the propeller with the engine placed behind the propeller. A Paramotor is viewed from the back, a Airplane is viewed from the front, and a Helicopter is viewed from above.
Turns to the Left = Counter Clockwise Rotation = Left Handed turn
Turns to the Right = Clockwise Rotation = Right handed turn
(Think of the steering wheel of a car and the car's resulting direction)
The Aeronautical standard is the propeller "Turns to the Left" and the engines are configured accordingly.
Expensive gearboxes and counter-rotating props (and likely mad-crazy noise) ;)
Really useful information cheers keep it up 👍
+Darren P thanks
Electric paramotors might save us from torque by using an even number of propellers (2, 4, 6, etc) spinning in opposite directions. I say electric because this would be easier on them versus using two propellers on a combustion engine. With battery advancements e-Paramotors are the future and torqu is one of the reasons, IMO
+Gian Carlo Martinelli yes. This is true.
But 4 small props are significantly less efficient than one large. The little energy that you can store in batteries gets wasted...
I would rather use one large prop and compensate the torque some other way
Also could stick a couple of little ducted fans on the rim of the cage to blow air in opposition to the torque, like a helicopter tail rotor.
if the weight of a counter-rotating prop and gearbox would be an issue maybe use something like the counter-rotating props on a quad or a trike where weight isn't as big as issue. that way you can take advantage of 2 props and maybe get more speed or better climb rate. I realize this is thinking outside the box. most of your paramotors are engineered extremely well but this would be something to consider
counter rotating propellers will be covered in the next video. It's being edited right now...
Great videos
Thanks.
I really like the scout paramotor except for one detail, why is the prop behind the cage?
Most new paramotors are this way.
I have had the lines tangle up in the prop several times during ground handling mistakes and it was a big mess, splintered prop, crushed cage, broken lines and some times it pulls the lines out of the wing.
The prop is behind the cage for your protection....why else would you think they would do that?
Yes I understand this.
Looking at the paramotor from the side the prop is behind the outer hoop by a few centimetres.
If it was forward a few centimetres it would be within the outer hop and it would be much harder to have the prop tips catch a line and wind them up.
yes, you are right.
The engine sits on rubber mounts and moves inside the cage. If we would set the engine deeper inside the cage, the prop might hit the cage spars.
So the solution for the SCOUT would be making the hoop wider rather than move the prop deeper into the cage.
But in fact its not necessary. The prop sticks out only about 2 cm (
Awesome series. I immediately agreed with the belt vs gear reduction systems being no different but I had a thought that if the engine pulley had a bit more mass to it wouldn't that counteract at least some of the torque? I know weight is our enemy so it's just a thought. Keep the videos coming!
+StarFyter1 increasing the mass would slow down throttle response. Trust me flying a 800grams prop is really different from 1100grams. It's noticeable.
But overall, acceleration torque is not a big deal. It vanishes within a fraction of second. The big deal is the constant rpm torque that you face throughout the whole flight. And that has nothing to do with weight, shafts and wheels.
Hi, first of all nice videos! what about if you are light and you fly a big paramotor? can you "compensate" the torque by simply reduce power? example if you are 60 Kgs and you fly a 200cc... or its not advisable at all? (during take off)
Thanks!
Roger
Sure. Use just as much power as necessary. With light pilot and 200cc you would be able to takeoff at 1/2 to 3/4 of throttle.
SCOUT paramotor , thanks a lot for the info.
cheers
I understand weight is a big factor in paramotoring but could you use a gearbox that used two counter-rotating props ? I would think you would get an advantage from thrust out of two props but there might be a weight disadvantage as well.. great videos I'm watching them over and over again picking up little tidbits of information. it really seems like you have worked out all the fine details and trying to make the best all-around paramotor. you have me sold I'm waiting on financing as we speak... thank you for the videos and I always look forward to more videos and information
+Mike Thacker your question will be answered in next video. It's being edited right now ...
SCOUT paramotor... omg that was so quick that you answered me.. thank you very much
Was thinking the same thing Mike but assumed it would increase weight. I think counter-rotating props would induce turbulence and decrease efficiency so by the time you get larger props to combat that, you're still too heavy.
yes, you are right. But heavy is not the biggest problem. Wait to find out in the next video.
A stable coaxial-rotor system is a lot of weight and requires a larger engine.
Addendum: You also have to put up with the very mind-numbing audio Harmonics.
Are there any contra rotation gearboxes made for paramotors?
Have you tried one?
Great channel you have made!
Cheers from Finland.
I guess it's kinda randomly asking but do anybody know a good place to watch new tv shows online?
@Asher Francisco try flixzone. You can find it on google =)
@Axel Blaine Yup, have been watching on flixzone for months myself =)
@Axel Blaine Thank you, signed up and it seems like they got a lot of movies there =) I really appreciate it !!
@Asher Francisco you are welcome xD
I wonder if torque could be canceled by employing counter rotating propellers ? You think ? I wonder why it hasn't been done yet ?
Wouldn't the pitch of the prop have a greater effect than the overall length? Mass being equal.
You cannot change just one thing on a propeller. Increasing the pitch without changing anything else would make the engine not be able to reach its max RPM, that is you would not get max power from the engine.
If you increase the pitch, you need to make the blades more slim = lower blade area. It is very experimental what combination is the best.
As a general rule, the larger the prop is, the more efficient it will be. Reason is simple: the center part of the blade has no thrust. The tips have no thrust (wingtip vertices) . Its only the middle part of the blade producing thrust. with longer prop blades you have longer middle part.
if a 3 blade prop is more efficient than 2 blades,, why don't we see it more often? wouldn't it just make more sense? saving fuel and all? another tangent question,, why didn't you design the carbon shroud a bit wider so the props can benefit from the ducted design?
+Hazza Bani Malek
1. I have tested a 3 blade prop. It was probably slightly more efficient but difference was minimal. The sound was amazing however!
3 blades cost more than 2 blades.
2.i have studied that. To have relevant gains of ducted fan the gap between the propeller tips and the hoop must be super tiny (less than 5 mm). This is not possible with single cylinder combustion engines as they shake too much
it makes sense why we always see it in electric motor applications.
I believe that you know what you are doing and talking about,,, more than what I can say about other manufacturers. And I wish you all the best in your endeavours.
one more question though,, in my search, I couldn't find any weight figure for any of the combinations you manufacture (cage + engine),, now I noticed in one of the first episodes you said only the inexperienced would ask that,, and you're right, I am,, but don't you think it's essential for us beginners so we can size our wings properly?? many of us can't/don't have the luxury to experiment.
+Hazza Bani Malek our most sold paramotor is the scout carbon with Vittorazi Moster plus 185cc engine. It weights 25.5kg
I appreciate the prompt reply,, thank you sir.
Can anybody help I just change my motor mounts and all the sudden my motor has way more torque and it's pulling me straight down to the right. Like the machine is unflyable
I don’t have an explanation for this.
you could completely eliminate torque by having two counter rotating props
i should have seen what the next video is called lol