Leave a comment so the algorithm still thinks I make good videos. Anyways. Regarding Frostbite This was likely not implemented in Scarlet/Violet because it wasn't a direct buff to Ice. Status effects are more generally accessible because they are tied to moves in general, meaning everyone could use them. Replacing Freeze with Frostebite would've just buffed Ice moves, which everyone was already using anyway. Snow, however, ONLY affects Ice Pokemon, making it a more direct buff to the Type. So it made for a more meaningful addition. It might likely be added in the future. Since Snow would already be a pretty huge buff, Game Freak might have decided to not change too much too quickly, and opted to make a gradual change instead.
I wish they could in gen 10 swap the Freeze status condition for Frostbite and add move that is a mix of Will o Wisp-and Toxic, meaning it has the old Will o Wisp accuracy, but with the effect that if used by an Ice type it skips accuracy checks altogether like Toxic does when used by Poison types. This would buff Ice types defensive capabilities in the other attacking/defending spectrum, since Snow increases physical defense and this new Frostbite would indirectly buff Ice types special defense. Edit: forgot to mention that I view this as a buff to Ice type because although this new Frostbite inducing move could be distributed to other Pokemon that don't have the type, we all know how the old Will o Wisp accuracy was not that realiable (right, Aaron Cybertron Zheng?), so you would have to use an Ice type to be sure the move would land.
It could be a buff to ice in the same way Wil O wisp is a fire buff, give Ice mons near exclusive access to whatever the frostbite equivalent is called.
To be fair, Aurora Veil also isn't a buff to just ice types. If anyone can use Aurora Veil, they can use it to defensively buff themselves and their team. Especially if you consider how Slowking has an exclusive move for setting snow in Chilly Reception. However, Aurora Veil is only learned by Ice Types (and Smeargle). Who's to say that the hypothetical Will-o-Wisp/Thunderwave equivalent for Frostbite couldn't be learned by only Ice types as well, thus giving them yet another defensive/support role similar to how fire types can cut down on an opponent's attack stat with a burn on demand?
I see the reason why Ice types keep on becoming walls is because of human experience. Sure ice can be pointy icicles or clumps of hail, but most people think of ice caps, glaciers, and the stiff cold. Most can be a bit of a hyperbole, but that's how I see it.
Minor correction on the availability of the Ice TMs. While talking to the NPC that hands out Ice Beam is missable, going to that rooftop and buying a drink from the vending machine isn't. It is literally required for game progression. Regarding Blizzard, there isn't a way to solve the puzzle that accesses the Cinnabar Gym without walking literally right next to the TM on the ground. You must hit the button on that statue in order to reach the key at the end of the dungeon.
I used to run a weakness policy Regice with hail, rock polish, blizzard and thunderbolt, and my local playground HATED it. I loved switching in after setting hail , tanking, getting a weakness policy boost, boosting the speed and sweeping. Not competitive at all, but I was basically the only person to understand game mechanics, so it was a terror, lol.
Ice type trainers and specialists in the games generally get steamrolled simply because of how weak Ice types actually are. Ice types desperately need some defensive utility. Being super effective to 4 types isn't enough for them to be worth it in many situations. Meanwhile Ghost types have two immunities and hit almost everything except for Dark types for substantial, un-resisted damage.
Something that I hope to see in the future is another addition introduced in Legends Arceus-Frostbite. It's a special version of burn, where it's a damage over time status condition that passively lowers the Special Attack of those who are hit by it. This not only gives the entire team reprieve from the special attacks that don't often have passive ways to weaken them in the way physical attacks do (like with Intimidate, burn's passive attack-dropping effect, confusion self-damage scaling with higher physical attack), it also complements the physical defensive buffs that the Ice type gains in the snow. I get the feeling that these sorts of things would make defensive Ice types even better, give offensive Ice Pokémon a niche for not being affected by Frostbite, remove the pure RNG of Freezing (for better game feel), and allow for more potential Ice Pokémon specific moves (like how Will-o-Wisp is commonly used by Fire and Ghost specifically, while Lava Plume is ONLY learned by Fire types and Groudon) that can shake up the balance of power back to the Ice type's favor. The Ice type, despite its amazing strides since Gen 4, is still in a rough spot. There is a reason why it's still considered one of the worst types (alongside Bug), and having its dragonslaying tendencies stolen by the much better Fairy type isn't doing the Ice type any favors. But with Pokémon like Kyurem, Baxcalibur, Calyrex, Galarian Darmanitan (normal and Zen), Chien Pao, and Iron Bundle, we have begun to see just how powerful the Ice type can be. Not since Gens 1 and 4 have we been able to feel that, and I'm all for it. I understand the whole deal with glass cannons being best regulated to late-game. But there are so many ways to allow for Ice types earlier in the game, especially when you consider how many common weaknesses the Bug type has despite being labeled an early-game type in most games. If the issues lie with the offensive capabilities of the Ice type, then having the Ice attacks be at mid to high levels would be suitable to showcase how strong the Ice type is without having to balance around moves like Freeze-Dry or Ice Beam. And as for competitive? I hope the ice type continues to gain utility and presence. So many Ice types are so cool, but they're basically unusable nowadays. And that makes me sad.
The problem with ice is that its far better as coverage move than as main type for your pokemon. Yeah Gen 8 and 9 have fixed some issues but still you have 4 comnon weakness and they are competing with Fairy (probably the best type) for that dragon supereffectiveness. Again its easier to teach an ice move to a water type than using an ice type
The only good thing about Ice is that it hits four typings that will never be bad. This still applies to Grass because good Grass-types could hit hard or use status moves or be pivots. That is the reason why you may still want an Ice type when things are being overtuned for the nifty STAB bonus, but that’s it, and as such it requires overtuned Ice-type Pokémon, and luckily somehow more Ice-type Pokémon are being overtuned.
Blizzard in Gen 1 isn't easily missable. You have to go into the room it's in to open the way to the key to the gym. Ice Beam is also not as hard to miss as presented, because originally you already had to buy a drink to get past the gate guards, and talking to everyone is just how you got information in games at the time.
Gonna be a lil sentimental here, but my favorite ice type is articuno, because it is literally the only reason I didn't give up on pokemon after the second generation. As a kid I was bad at video games, not helped by the fact that the early generation was a bit obtuse about it's own mechanics. Generation II made these problems even worse with it's notoriously abysmal level curve in the back half of the game, which made grinding borderline impossible for an impatient ten year old. I never cleared the elite four in the first generation as a kid because I could not for the life of me figure out what was even going on with the boss rush, let alone that I should maybe plan ahead for it and raise a team to counter the bosses instead of just going in with my favorites. In the second generation I struggled and struggled and struggled, and died to Lance and his stupid OP ass dragonite squad over and over and over. I happened to have two gameboys (because one of them had gone missing only for us to find it again months later), so I used the Time Machine to trade an articuno over to Gold version from Blue version. (I think I caught the articuno with a master ball, lol). That articuno was how I finally beat Lance and got to the postgame. I finally discovered that the endgame was not an unfair, unwinnable slog that I would never be able to master. It was doable, with the right tools.
The Pokémon games are too easy. Lance is a pushover with a huge Boltbeam weakness. It is not unfair to require the player to use a bit of strategy in his strategy game.
@seisveintiocho-x9e Um, chill? XD I didn't say it was, I said very clearly that I was a stupid ten year old who was bad at video games. In fact I said that this story is how I realized the game WASN'T unfair, you just had to rub two braincells together to beat it.
They evidently considered that and opted to go for the more difficult route by making Freeze Dry instead. They want Ice to remain as the offensive type only
In defense of Fairy having more Pokemon than Ice, it should be noted that 22 Pokemon were just converted to Fairy Type and because it was a new type in Gen, they introduced a lot of Fairy Types and a new Legendary and Mythical type and the next generation had an entire Legendary Group and a Starter have the Fairy Type just for it to have further promotion.....
My favorite Ice Type is Frosslass. It was the first successful fast special attacking specialist Game Freak designed after the Physical-Special split. Furthermore, Ice/Ghost is a fantastic type combo that turns a Fighting weakness into an immunity at exactly the time when Fighting-types were beginning to rise. And lastly, I was drawn to the clear cultural origins of Frosslass. It was obviously a Yuki-onna without clubbing you over the head about it.
@josephbulkin9222 "Fast" is the operative distinction between Frosslass and Lapras. Lapras followed the Gen 1 trend of making Ice types bulky to compensate for their defensive shortcomings. Frosslass was an outright attacker; faster than Jynx, its closest comparison, while also being more durable, but at the cost of slightly less attacking prowess.
@@josephbulkin9222 While being stuck with pressure for whatever reason and a 4x weakness to fighting. Froslass is built to abuse hail and shore up that fighting weakness, plus has a nice immunity to a few priority moves. They actually complement each other pretty well. And as for Lapras, it has a 'whopping' 5 points more to it's attack stats. Not a big deal. :P
It's actually pretty wild to see just how overtuned Ice initially was (even if outshone by another overtuned but much more common type) and just how much it stumbled afterwards, only recently coalescing into something respectable after so many false starts. Even though I'd compared Ice to Rock before, in terms of having excellent type advantages on offense but a crippling abundance of defensive weaknesses (as well as them making sense for slow and bulky creatures regardless of how effective that makes them in-game), Rock is leagues behind Ice when looking at their original designs. I'm still looking forward to seeing Rock covered, and I expect focus on its important-for-the-time Normal resistance and how it was balanced out by weaknesses (frequently double weaknesses) to common Special types as well as restricted and just odd STAB options. Also, my favorite Ice-type is Beartic because I like pretty much all of the bear Pokemon, even if almost all of them share a weakness to martial arts for some reason.
My favorite Ice Type is Frosslass. Her design is very nice, she's fast and Ghost typing allow to hit targets resistant to Ice. But the best thing about her is ironically her defences. Being an Ice Type immune to the Fighting Type moves is just really convenient. I just love when two types have such defensive synergy when combined.
My favorite Ice type is Walrein, followed by either Alolan Ninetales or Galarian Darmanitan. I like Walrein's design and evolution line. While it is a late-game Pokémon, I've enjoyed using it on Gen 3 teams.
My favorite Ice type is actually Glalie. Despite its mediocre stat lineup as highlighted in the video, I honestly respect it for what it is, the evo line being the first mono-Ice Pokemon in the national Pokedex. In that regard it is quite unique in its debut generation. Also Snorunt is a little waddling egg wearing a hat and I think that's neat
@@guedesbrawl I opted not to cover it because it didn’t carry over into the overall main series, whereas Snow did Perhaps they felt both at once would’ve been too drastic a change, and decided to implement just one first
My current favorite Ice type is Iron Bundle. It's so adorable, yet so hilariously terrifying when this little robot Delibird chases after you in Area Zero. Mamoswine's good too.
Baxcaliber is my favorite gen 9 Pokemon and one of my favorite Pokemon overall! Given its Godzilla inspiration (and the fact that I want it to do well) I would have preferred it to be Dragon/Water instead but oh well. I love the old Godzilla movies so seeing glaive rush, and the clear design inspiration made me very happy
I like Pokémon that take inspiration from real world myths and legends, so I’ve always gravitated towards Froslass for being inspired by the yuki-onna. I always to make sure to catch one in every game it’s available in, and it’s always a dependable rotating member of the team whenever I need Ice STAB.
Informative ✅ Insightful ✅ Quality ✅ Meme-magical ✅ This unique take on the game design aspect of Pokemon really refreshing. Earned a sub! Especially after the Gintama reference. A man of culture i see.
First of all, great video as always! This series is simply incredible. As for my favorite ice type, it's probably Baxcalibur. It's weird, it's a type I really like but I don't have a pokemon I love from it. And finally, what about covering rock or ground next? Those two seem to have a similar relationship to the one between water and ice: one is focused on offense and another in defense, so it would be cool to examine that.
My favorite ice type is probably Abomasnow (I love grass types in general, but that isn't why). Its base stats and movepool are such that there doesn't seem to be a right or wrong way to play it. This alone makes me enjoy it even more than Mega Abomasnow whose role is very clear cut in comparison.
I love the idea that even if the distant future when Pokemon are more machine than nature, even when everything is made of chrome, everyone still gets together to celebrate Christmas. XD
17:37 "With her Lapras and Jynx going completely unchanged." Probably should've done a second take, the graphics you put there show Jynx's Body Slam being replaced with Lovely Kiss.
Pretty cool vehicle to discuss Glass Cannons! Seems like Game Freak feared that archetype a bit too much. I enjoyed the twist at the end where all of the bulky ice types that failed in previous gens gained new life with the advent of Snow. Love a dynamic, evolving meta. Pretty COOL if you ask me ❄️😉 As a Fire Emblem fan, I also appreciated the throwback to early 3H meta Lysithea Dark Spikes haha. I was not prepared for Blutgang Astra vs Nemesis tho 😂
The Sneasel talk made me remind of an interesting topic, aka how absolutely weird the distribution of the two new G2 types in main story was. Steel type, the best defensive type? Every single one if you're willing to put in time (even the trade evos are available, cause wild Magnemite once in a while come with Metal Coat). Dark type, the funny Psychic counter? Umbreon, take it or leave it. Which not only evolves via newly introduced mechanics that you had to figure out, but also if you're a kid that mashes through dialogue, you might not even realize how to get Eevee (I sure did the first time around).
I’ve personally floated the idea before but Ice could go well as a secondary type for a Fire starter as it work well as a glass cannon typing especially if said starter was fast. I think that Ice should get a resistance to Ground, Water, and Flying. Having it resist 4 common attacking types but also being weak. If they’re going to keep making bulky ice types, they should buff the Ice type to go with that.
11:08 How dare you be inaccurate. Surely everybody knows that using the move Haze, which is only on the Zubat line, Weezing Line, and Vaporeon, none of which are good, removes Freeze as well. Don't worry, it's a pretty common mistake to make.
Please cover fighting types next. My favorite ice type is Cryoginal. I don't know why but I like it's weird snowflake stop sign look with weird stats with having good speed, special defense and special attack for some reason.
I really don't see how the Ice type is a glass cannon type in any way frankly. I guess at least the type charting is what makes a lot of people say that but as it is treated in game, this vision kinda breaks appart for me. Firstly it still is resisted by four types, that's as many as it is super effective on, and two of them are Water and Steel which are some of the best types in the game, while the other, fire, is often seen because it is effective against steel. It's not that glass canon-esque offensively, just defensively, that's pretty terrible. And sure, some of the best Ice types are glass canons, but for every Weavile, there are way more Avaluggs and Mamoswines. When you look at Gen1 in which its types were more archetypal in the pokemons they have, it has only bulky pokemons: Mantine Lokhlass Cloyster and Articuno, with just sorta Jinx denoting with the wtf 65-50-35-95-95/65-50-35-115-95-95 stat spread. Even to this day as the types are way less archetypal, Ice types are mostly supposed to be bulky tanks and walls or at least bulky attackers: Hisuian Avalugg, Cetitan, Baxcalibur, Iron Bundle. At least Gen9 has Chien-Pao but I'm not sure there are any other glass canon Ice types than it, Weavile, Zen Mode Glaraian Darmanitan, and maybe regular Galarian Darmanitan Alolan Sandslash and Iron-Bundle. About freeze, it's a rare occurrence but very powerful. A rare occurrence is not useful for a glass canon that doesn't attack a lot and fits way more for bulky or defensive pokemons that can stay on the battlefield for long periods of time and thus have more chances to end up freezing. Hail is also not very offensively oriented. It used to deal small damage over time, which is more a defensive thing, and now it raises an Ice type's defense. Aurora Veil also raises defenses. Sure it's used to set up offensive pokemons, but not really glass canons anyways, those most often don't need setup or do it with a focus sash. It doesn't even make Ice type attacks, or any attack except weather ball and blizzard, more powerful unlike other climates. Not even to mention how most games treat it as a late game type, like Steel and Dragon, so it really sucks that it really sucks. Glass canon or not it needs to be buffed. I think it should be more of a high highs low low, or high risk high reward type. One with 4 terrible weaknesses but also 4 great resistances, just like it already has 4 great super-effectivenesses but also 4 not good not very effectivenesses. It should resist Water for sure, Ground would be neat as Ice already is super-effective on it, but then I'm not sure about a third, maybe Flying or Dragon.
I still really wish Freeze got reworked to Frostbite, yes it would be basically just a copy of Burn but would be not only another defensive buff for Ice types, but would get rid of what is still the most poorly designed status in the game. Sleep is technically stronger but capped at 3 turns while paralysis is permanent but only has a trigger chance of 25%, Freeze has an 80% chance and lasts until said chance doesn't happen.
I don't think Ice types are the glass cannons. Ice type is more like the "spy" piece in stratego. Its the weakest piece, but it can kill the strongest piece. Ice type was meant to be the hidden weapon you use to snipe the dragons. Dragons are supposed to be the big boss type, because it resists all the starter pokemon types and electric (pikachu).
My favorite Ice Type is the same as my favorite ghost type... rotom. Which also happens to be my favorite electric, grass and flying type. My second favorite is Spheal because... I mean it's spheal. Third is froslass cause I think it's a cool concept. I'm curious about the design around flying types personally. I'd also be interested in dark.
Ice types, ice type trainers and ice type gym leaders/E4 members in the games generally get steamrolled simply because of how easy it is to exploit the Ice type's lack of resistances. Ice types desperately need some defensive utility. Being super effective to 4 types isn't enough for them to be worth it in many situations. Meanwhile Ghost types have two immunities and hit EVERYTHING, except Dark types, for substantial, un-resisted damage and Ghost is generally considered one of the better types now. Ice types shouldn't have to suffer due to GameFreak's incompetence in Gen 1.
I think the Ice Type should resist at least one additional type personally, the best choices IMO are Electric, Flying and Ground, which are among the most spammable types in the game, and
I think a Water resistance would also be respectable. Given how often Water Pokemon use Ice coverage, it would be nice if Ice Pokemon could wall that type combination (especially if they have access to Freeze-Dry). And thematically, since Water resists Water and Ice, it just makes sense for Ice to resist them too.
My favorite Ice-Type is Lapras. Regardless of what everyone else said, It worked perfectly as a tank. Glalie and Froslass are pretty close though. Oh, and I'm the only fan of the Vanilllite line. The rest of the fanbase despises it for stupid reason.
The entire argument regarding why ice types and their attacks need to be late-game pickups would be completely valid in any other franchise. However, vanilla pokemon games have always been designed such that a 5-year old who can barely read can eventually become champion if they bash their head into the wall enough times; IIRC, this is even true at the highest levels where a youtuber beat a hardcore nuzlocke by just brute forcing his way through the game, never bothering to learn about any of the mechanics. In this context, it also makes sense why ice types were so often designed against their intent in the same way that as mentioned in the ghost-type video, Gengar is not an archetypical ghost type: because if it were well-designed, it would destroy that 5-yo mercilessly and then they would start to cry and then they won’t want their parents to buy them any pokemon merch. It really comes down to that, unfortunately 🧊🫠
![[Pokemon] Why Ghost is the strongest Type in history | archeType Talk](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/omhhwc3fL0w/mqdefault.jpg)
![How the Elite Four Gaslights every Pokémon player [Game Designer Explains]](/img/1.gif)
Leave a comment so the algorithm still thinks I make good videos. Anyways. Regarding Frostbite
This was likely not implemented in Scarlet/Violet because it wasn't a direct buff to Ice. Status effects are more generally accessible because they are tied to moves in general, meaning everyone could use them. Replacing Freeze with Frostebite would've just buffed Ice moves, which everyone was already using anyway.
Snow, however, ONLY affects Ice Pokemon, making it a more direct buff to the Type. So it made for a more meaningful addition.
It might likely be added in the future. Since Snow would already be a pretty huge buff, Game Freak might have decided to not change too much too quickly, and opted to make a gradual change instead.
I wish they could in gen 10 swap the Freeze status condition for Frostbite and add move that is a mix of Will o Wisp-and Toxic, meaning it has the old Will o Wisp accuracy, but with the effect that if used by an Ice type it skips accuracy checks altogether like Toxic does when used by Poison types. This would buff Ice types defensive capabilities in the other attacking/defending spectrum, since Snow increases physical defense and this new Frostbite would indirectly buff Ice types special defense.
Edit: forgot to mention that I view this as a buff to Ice type because although this new Frostbite inducing move could be distributed to other Pokemon that don't have the type, we all know how the old Will o Wisp accuracy was not that realiable (right, Aaron Cybertron Zheng?), so you would have to use an Ice type to be sure the move would land.
It could be a buff to ice in the same way Wil O wisp is a fire buff, give Ice mons near exclusive access to whatever the frostbite equivalent is called.
To be fair, Aurora Veil also isn't a buff to just ice types. If anyone can use Aurora Veil, they can use it to defensively buff themselves and their team. Especially if you consider how Slowking has an exclusive move for setting snow in Chilly Reception.
However, Aurora Veil is only learned by Ice Types (and Smeargle). Who's to say that the hypothetical Will-o-Wisp/Thunderwave equivalent for Frostbite couldn't be learned by only Ice types as well, thus giving them yet another defensive/support role similar to how fire types can cut down on an opponent's attack stat with a burn on demand?
Problem is Game Freak is in denial of Ice Types being glass cannons and tries to make them defensive walls.
Joke's on you, I had a Lapras and it worked great at doing exactly that.
@
An exception to the rule.
I see the reason why Ice types keep on becoming walls is because of human experience. Sure ice can be pointy icicles or clumps of hail, but most people think of ice caps, glaciers, and the stiff cold. Most can be a bit of a hyperbole, but that's how I see it.
@@josephbulkin9222 I'm sure it still works, down in ZU....
@@josephbulkin9222Water types are the best tanks. Thats Lapras’s water type doing extra work, not its Ice type.
Minor correction on the availability of the Ice TMs. While talking to the NPC that hands out Ice Beam is missable, going to that rooftop and buying a drink from the vending machine isn't. It is literally required for game progression.
Regarding Blizzard, there isn't a way to solve the puzzle that accesses the Cinnabar Gym without walking literally right next to the TM on the ground. You must hit the button on that statue in order to reach the key at the end of the dungeon.
I used to run a weakness policy Regice with hail, rock polish, blizzard and thunderbolt, and my local playground HATED it. I loved switching in after setting hail , tanking, getting a weakness policy boost, boosting the speed and sweeping. Not competitive at all, but I was basically the only person to understand game mechanics, so it was a terror, lol.
I love this video series, it goes so in depth in terms of game design instead of just talking about the types from a "balance" perspective.
I've been a Pokemon fan since I learnt to read and I'm still learning so much about how the different types are planned and used!
You mean "competitive" perspective....
He still speaks of balance, but from the perspective of game play rather than competitive....
@@TheDeathmail ....
Ice type trainers and specialists in the games generally get steamrolled simply because of how weak Ice types actually are.
Ice types desperately need some defensive utility. Being super effective to 4 types isn't enough for them to be worth it in many situations.
Meanwhile Ghost types have two immunities and hit almost everything except for Dark types for substantial, un-resisted damage.
Something that I hope to see in the future is another addition introduced in Legends Arceus-Frostbite.
It's a special version of burn, where it's a damage over time status condition that passively lowers the Special Attack of those who are hit by it. This not only gives the entire team reprieve from the special attacks that don't often have passive ways to weaken them in the way physical attacks do (like with Intimidate, burn's passive attack-dropping effect, confusion self-damage scaling with higher physical attack), it also complements the physical defensive buffs that the Ice type gains in the snow. I get the feeling that these sorts of things would make defensive Ice types even better, give offensive Ice Pokémon a niche for not being affected by Frostbite, remove the pure RNG of Freezing (for better game feel), and allow for more potential Ice Pokémon specific moves (like how Will-o-Wisp is commonly used by Fire and Ghost specifically, while Lava Plume is ONLY learned by Fire types and Groudon) that can shake up the balance of power back to the Ice type's favor.
The Ice type, despite its amazing strides since Gen 4, is still in a rough spot. There is a reason why it's still considered one of the worst types (alongside Bug), and having its dragonslaying tendencies stolen by the much better Fairy type isn't doing the Ice type any favors. But with Pokémon like Kyurem, Baxcalibur, Calyrex, Galarian Darmanitan (normal and Zen), Chien Pao, and Iron Bundle, we have begun to see just how powerful the Ice type can be. Not since Gens 1 and 4 have we been able to feel that, and I'm all for it.
I understand the whole deal with glass cannons being best regulated to late-game. But there are so many ways to allow for Ice types earlier in the game, especially when you consider how many common weaknesses the Bug type has despite being labeled an early-game type in most games. If the issues lie with the offensive capabilities of the Ice type, then having the Ice attacks be at mid to high levels would be suitable to showcase how strong the Ice type is without having to balance around moves like Freeze-Dry or Ice Beam.
And as for competitive? I hope the ice type continues to gain utility and presence. So many Ice types are so cool, but they're basically unusable nowadays. And that makes me sad.
The problem with ice is that its far better as coverage move than as main type for your pokemon.
Yeah Gen 8 and 9 have fixed some issues but still you have 4 comnon weakness and they are competing with Fairy (probably the best type) for that dragon supereffectiveness.
Again its easier to teach an ice move to a water type than using an ice type
You know I feel that's an interesting case study as a whole.
What types work better as moves vs as pokemon types.
It never occurred to me that Iron Bundle foreshadows Christmas being still around centuries later. That’s a terrifying thought.
But why? Christmas is great!
This is a success story. As other types like Rock and Bug suffer at the bottom, we can see with the Ice type how a few changes are enough.
I would say that Rock suffers from the same syndrome as Ice: they are better move types than pokemon types.
The only good thing about Ice is that it hits four typings that will never be bad. This still applies to Grass because good Grass-types could hit hard or use status moves or be pivots. That is the reason why you may still want an Ice type when things are being overtuned for the nifty STAB bonus, but that’s it, and as such it requires overtuned Ice-type Pokémon, and luckily somehow more Ice-type Pokémon are being overtuned.
Blizzard in Gen 1 isn't easily missable. You have to go into the room it's in to open the way to the key to the gym. Ice Beam is also not as hard to miss as presented, because originally you already had to buy a drink to get past the gate guards, and talking to everyone is just how you got information in games at the time.
Gonna be a lil sentimental here, but my favorite ice type is articuno, because it is literally the only reason I didn't give up on pokemon after the second generation. As a kid I was bad at video games, not helped by the fact that the early generation was a bit obtuse about it's own mechanics. Generation II made these problems even worse with it's notoriously abysmal level curve in the back half of the game, which made grinding borderline impossible for an impatient ten year old. I never cleared the elite four in the first generation as a kid because I could not for the life of me figure out what was even going on with the boss rush, let alone that I should maybe plan ahead for it and raise a team to counter the bosses instead of just going in with my favorites. In the second generation I struggled and struggled and struggled, and died to Lance and his stupid OP ass dragonite squad over and over and over. I happened to have two gameboys (because one of them had gone missing only for us to find it again months later), so I used the Time Machine to trade an articuno over to Gold version from Blue version. (I think I caught the articuno with a master ball, lol).
That articuno was how I finally beat Lance and got to the postgame. I finally discovered that the endgame was not an unfair, unwinnable slog that I would never be able to master. It was doable, with the right tools.
The Pokémon games are too easy. Lance is a pushover with a huge Boltbeam weakness.
It is not unfair to require the player to use a bit of strategy in his strategy game.
@seisveintiocho-x9e Um, chill? XD I didn't say it was, I said very clearly that I was a stupid ten year old who was bad at video games. In fact I said that this story is how I realized the game WASN'T unfair, you just had to rub two braincells together to beat it.
I feel like, at this point, ice deserves to resist water.
They evidently considered that and opted to go for the more difficult route by making Freeze Dry instead.
They want Ice to remain as the offensive type only
@GoldenOwl_Game and yet they keep trying to make bulky ice types a “thing”. I'm not disagreeing with your read on their approach, I just don't get it.
THE NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANNON?!!! THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE NO ONE'S EVER BEEN ABLE TO SUMMON IT!!!!
In defense of Fairy having more Pokemon than Ice, it should be noted that 22 Pokemon were just converted to Fairy Type and because it was a new type in Gen, they introduced a lot of Fairy Types and a new Legendary and Mythical type and the next generation had an entire Legendary Group and a Starter have the Fairy Type just for it to have further promotion.....
My favorite Ice Type is Frosslass. It was the first successful fast special attacking specialist Game Freak designed after the Physical-Special split.
Furthermore, Ice/Ghost is a fantastic type combo that turns a Fighting weakness into an immunity at exactly the time when Fighting-types were beginning to rise.
And lastly, I was drawn to the clear cultural origins of Frosslass. It was obviously a Yuki-onna without clubbing you over the head about it.
If only it had a decent special attacking stat to go with it. Lapras is a better special attacker than Froslass.
@josephbulkin9222 "Fast" is the operative distinction between Frosslass and Lapras. Lapras followed the Gen 1 trend of making Ice types bulky to compensate for their defensive shortcomings.
Frosslass was an outright attacker; faster than Jynx, its closest comparison, while also being more durable, but at the cost of slightly less attacking prowess.
@vel0xraperio Weavile is even faster ,and has a higher attacking stat though.
@@josephbulkin9222 While being stuck with pressure for whatever reason and a 4x weakness to fighting. Froslass is built to abuse hail and shore up that fighting weakness, plus has a nice immunity to a few priority moves. They actually complement each other pretty well.
And as for Lapras, it has a 'whopping' 5 points more to it's attack stats. Not a big deal. :P
It's actually pretty wild to see just how overtuned Ice initially was (even if outshone by another overtuned but much more common type) and just how much it stumbled afterwards, only recently coalescing into something respectable after so many false starts. Even though I'd compared Ice to Rock before, in terms of having excellent type advantages on offense but a crippling abundance of defensive weaknesses (as well as them making sense for slow and bulky creatures regardless of how effective that makes them in-game), Rock is leagues behind Ice when looking at their original designs. I'm still looking forward to seeing Rock covered, and I expect focus on its important-for-the-time Normal resistance and how it was balanced out by weaknesses (frequently double weaknesses) to common Special types as well as restricted and just odd STAB options.
Also, my favorite Ice-type is Beartic because I like pretty much all of the bear Pokemon, even if almost all of them share a weakness to martial arts for some reason.
I gotta say I love your choice of sounds and music, the Ghost Trick tracks and noises really make everything better.
@PavitrM. it’s an underrated gem of a game. More people should play it
My favorite Ice Type is Frosslass. Her design is very nice, she's fast and Ghost typing allow to hit targets resistant to Ice.
But the best thing about her is ironically her defences. Being an Ice Type immune to the Fighting Type moves is just really convenient. I just love when two types have such defensive synergy when combined.
My favorite Ice type is Walrein, followed by either Alolan Ninetales or Galarian Darmanitan. I like Walrein's design and evolution line. While it is a late-game Pokémon, I've enjoyed using it on Gen 3 teams.
My favorite Ice type is Ninetails-A. That presentation for Sun and Moon was too iconic and its really pretty.
0:11 Facts, no printer
My favorite Ice type is actually Glalie. Despite its mediocre stat lineup as highlighted in the video, I honestly respect it for what it is, the evo line being the first mono-Ice Pokemon in the national Pokedex. In that regard it is quite unique in its debut generation. Also Snorunt is a little waddling egg wearing a hat and I think that's neat
That opening just cured my sickness, watered my fields, and revived all my Pokémon. Thank you, Golden Owl! 😃
Also yay new type video!
Holy shit, I didn't know Gen 1 Blizzard had 90% accuracy
The Cold JoJo Heavy likes the video, and presents it to their friends
- Nickonyte
I'm surprised the LEgends-only experiment of swapping Freeze for Frostbite was not covered here
@@guedesbrawl I opted not to cover it because it didn’t carry over into the overall main series, whereas Snow did
Perhaps they felt both at once would’ve been too drastic a change, and decided to implement just one first
talks about glass cannon while he shows a unit who's primary functions is teleporting your lord to the boss for a ez one turn win xD
That pun to start it out, phenomenal. Nicely done good sir
My current favorite Ice type is Iron Bundle. It's so adorable, yet so hilariously terrifying when this little robot Delibird chases after you in Area Zero. Mamoswine's good too.
Baxcaliber is my favorite gen 9 Pokemon and one of my favorite Pokemon overall! Given its Godzilla inspiration (and the fact that I want it to do well) I would have preferred it to be Dragon/Water instead but oh well. I love the old Godzilla movies so seeing glaive rush, and the clear design inspiration made me very happy
I like Pokémon that take inspiration from real world myths and legends, so I’ve always gravitated towards Froslass for being inspired by the yuki-onna. I always to make sure to catch one in every game it’s available in, and it’s always a dependable rotating member of the team whenever I need Ice STAB.
Informative ✅
Insightful ✅
Quality ✅
Meme-magical ✅
This unique take on the game design aspect of Pokemon really refreshing. Earned a sub! Especially after the Gintama reference. A man of culture i see.
First of all, great video as always! This series is simply incredible.
As for my favorite ice type, it's probably Baxcalibur. It's weird, it's a type I really like but I don't have a pokemon I love from it.
And finally, what about covering rock or ground next? Those two seem to have a similar relationship to the one between water and ice: one is focused on offense and another in defense, so it would be cool to examine that.
My favorite ice type is probably Abomasnow (I love grass types in general, but that isn't why). Its base stats and movepool are such that there doesn't seem to be a right or wrong way to play it. This alone makes me enjoy it even more than Mega Abomasnow whose role is very clear cut in comparison.
I love the idea that even if the distant future when Pokemon are more machine than nature, even when everything is made of chrome, everyone still gets together to celebrate Christmas. XD
ArcheType is a banger name
11:10 I cant believe saul being alive was a gen 1 pokemon reference all along,,,,
Since you covered glass cannon now it is time for tank
Favourit Ice type?
Amaura, a cute litte ice dino.
17:37 "With her Lapras and Jynx going completely unchanged."
Probably should've done a second take, the graphics you put there show Jynx's Body Slam being replaced with Lovely Kiss.
favorite ice mon has gotta be my boy mamoswine honestly in the running for favorite mon of all time
Pretty cool vehicle to discuss Glass Cannons! Seems like Game Freak feared that archetype a bit too much. I enjoyed the twist at the end where all of the bulky ice types that failed in previous gens gained new life with the advent of Snow. Love a dynamic, evolving meta. Pretty COOL if you ask me ❄️😉
As a Fire Emblem fan, I also appreciated the throwback to early 3H meta Lysithea Dark Spikes haha. I was not prepared for Blutgang Astra vs Nemesis tho 😂
36:55 Iron Bundle is like the Futurama Santa, so it fits.
The Sneasel talk made me remind of an interesting topic, aka how absolutely weird the distribution of the two new G2 types in main story was.
Steel type, the best defensive type? Every single one if you're willing to put in time (even the trade evos are available, cause wild Magnemite once in a while come with Metal Coat).
Dark type, the funny Psychic counter? Umbreon, take it or leave it. Which not only evolves via newly introduced mechanics that you had to figure out, but also if you're a kid that mashes through dialogue, you might not even realize how to get Eevee (I sure did the first time around).
Ice-type peaked in Legends: Arceus
Ice-type peaked in Pokémon Red/Blue/Yellow
I’ve personally floated the idea before but Ice could go well as a secondary type for a Fire starter as it work well as a glass cannon typing especially if said starter was fast.
I think that Ice should get a resistance to Ground, Water, and Flying. Having it resist 4 common attacking types but also being weak. If they’re going to keep making bulky ice types, they should buff the Ice type to go with that.
11:08 How dare you be inaccurate. Surely everybody knows that using the move Haze, which is only on the Zubat line, Weezing Line, and Vaporeon, none of which are good, removes Freeze as well.
Don't worry, it's a pretty common mistake to make.
Almost any aquatic type is able to study the ice cover. They really took grass They really took grass seriously
This is really well-written.
I always loved Sneasel as a kid so Weavile turned into my favorite
Just a minor correction: Gen 2 introduce Weather Condition. Except for Hail, that's came in Gen 3.
Please cover fighting types next.
My favorite ice type is Cryoginal. I don't know why but I like it's weird snowflake stop sign look with weird stats with having good speed, special defense and special attack for some reason.
I really don't see how the Ice type is a glass cannon type in any way frankly.
I guess at least the type charting is what makes a lot of people say that but as it is treated in game, this vision kinda breaks appart for me. Firstly it still is resisted by four types, that's as many as it is super effective on, and two of them are Water and Steel which are some of the best types in the game, while the other, fire, is often seen because it is effective against steel. It's not that glass canon-esque offensively, just defensively, that's pretty terrible.
And sure, some of the best Ice types are glass canons, but for every Weavile, there are way more Avaluggs and Mamoswines. When you look at Gen1 in which its types were more archetypal in the pokemons they have, it has only bulky pokemons: Mantine Lokhlass Cloyster and Articuno, with just sorta Jinx denoting with the wtf 65-50-35-95-95/65-50-35-115-95-95 stat spread.
Even to this day as the types are way less archetypal, Ice types are mostly supposed to be bulky tanks and walls or at least bulky attackers: Hisuian Avalugg, Cetitan, Baxcalibur, Iron Bundle. At least Gen9 has Chien-Pao but I'm not sure there are any other glass canon Ice types than it, Weavile, Zen Mode Glaraian Darmanitan, and maybe regular Galarian Darmanitan Alolan Sandslash and Iron-Bundle.
About freeze, it's a rare occurrence but very powerful. A rare occurrence is not useful for a glass canon that doesn't attack a lot and fits way more for bulky or defensive pokemons that can stay on the battlefield for long periods of time and thus have more chances to end up freezing.
Hail is also not very offensively oriented. It used to deal small damage over time, which is more a defensive thing, and now it raises an Ice type's defense. Aurora Veil also raises defenses. Sure it's used to set up offensive pokemons, but not really glass canons anyways, those most often don't need setup or do it with a focus sash. It doesn't even make Ice type attacks, or any attack except weather ball and blizzard, more powerful unlike other climates.
Not even to mention how most games treat it as a late game type, like Steel and Dragon, so it really sucks that it really sucks. Glass canon or not it needs to be buffed.
I think it should be more of a high highs low low, or high risk high reward type. One with 4 terrible weaknesses but also 4 great resistances, just like it already has 4 great super-effectivenesses but also 4 not good not very effectivenesses.
It should resist Water for sure, Ground would be neat as Ice already is super-effective on it, but then I'm not sure about a third, maybe Flying or Dragon.
1:57 THE NEO ARMSTRONG CYCLONE JET ARMSTRONG CANON!?!?!?!?!? GINTAMA MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!?!!!??
I still really wish Freeze got reworked to Frostbite, yes it would be basically just a copy of Burn but would be not only another defensive buff for Ice types, but would get rid of what is still the most poorly designed status in the game.
Sleep is technically stronger but capped at 3 turns while paralysis is permanent but only has a trigger chance of 25%, Freeze has an 80% chance and lasts until said chance doesn't happen.
no freezer's brother is ice cold
"Please, Mr. Cold was my father"
-Freezer's brother, probably
Ice needs to resist water and maybe lose a weakness.
my favorite ice type is chien-pao!! but im obsessed w the treasures of ruin anyway haha
Ehm, small correction here. Gen 3 did only introduce Hail. Sun, Rain and Sand were introduced in Gen 2.
I don't think Ice types are the glass cannons. Ice type is more like the "spy" piece in stratego. Its the weakest piece, but it can kill the strongest piece. Ice type was meant to be the hidden weapon you use to snipe the dragons. Dragons are supposed to be the big boss type, because it resists all the starter pokemon types and electric (pikachu).
My favorite Ice Type is the same as my favorite ghost type... rotom. Which also happens to be my favorite electric, grass and flying type. My second favorite is Spheal because... I mean it's spheal. Third is froslass cause I think it's a cool concept. I'm curious about the design around flying types personally. I'd also be interested in dark.
leaving a comment so the algorithm still thinks you make good videos
Ice types, ice type trainers and ice type gym leaders/E4 members in the games generally get steamrolled simply because of how easy it is to exploit the Ice type's lack of resistances.
Ice types desperately need some defensive utility. Being super effective to 4 types isn't enough for them to be worth it in many situations.
Meanwhile Ghost types have two immunities and hit EVERYTHING, except Dark types, for substantial, un-resisted damage and Ghost is generally considered one of the better types now.
Ice types shouldn't have to suffer due to GameFreak's incompetence in Gen 1.
I think the Ice Type should resist at least one additional type personally, the best choices IMO are Electric, Flying and Ground, which are among the most spammable types in the game, and
I think a Water resistance would also be respectable. Given how often Water Pokemon use Ice coverage, it would be nice if Ice Pokemon could wall that type combination (especially if they have access to Freeze-Dry). And thematically, since Water resists Water and Ice, it just makes sense for Ice to resist them too.
My favorite Ice-Type is Lapras. Regardless of what everyone else said, It worked perfectly as a tank. Glalie and Froslass are pretty close though.
Oh, and I'm the only fan of the Vanilllite line. The rest of the fanbase despises it for stupid reason.
Could you do Dragon or Electric types next?
Hisu avalugg is even sadder yhan regular, imagine taking ice and making it even worse defensively.
Gamefreak may have been trolling with this one.
Ice type is probably my favourite type in the game. Not because of their glass cannon role or anything, I just think the Pokemon are cool.
Get it?
spheal's the best pokemon ever
11:12 please don’t spoiler the anime onlys like that
Weavile, as it righted so many ways sneasel was wronged and im a gen-2 nostalgia glasses kinda guy
Awesome video as always. My favorite pokemon ever is still Jynx. Kind of obvious from my pfp.
:D
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The entire argument regarding why ice types and their attacks need to be late-game pickups would be completely valid in any other franchise. However, vanilla pokemon games have always been designed such that a 5-year old who can barely read can eventually become champion if they bash their head into the wall enough times; IIRC, this is even true at the highest levels where a youtuber beat a hardcore nuzlocke by just brute forcing his way through the game, never bothering to learn about any of the mechanics. In this context, it also makes sense why ice types were so often designed against their intent in the same way that as mentioned in the ghost-type video, Gengar is not an archetypical ghost type: because if it were well-designed, it would destroy that 5-yo mercilessly and then they would start to cry and then they won’t want their parents to buy them any pokemon merch. It really comes down to that, unfortunately 🧊🫠