As a new player it feels like every link deck is an access code deck and every synchro deck is a baronne deck and not running them is akin to throwing. Which makes the whole archetype things seem pointless if the archetype cards aren't powerful enough to stand on their own
@GutsmanLoL not everyone has English as their first language. Broken English means he likely knows another language. Learn not to be a dick before commenting next time 🙏
In YGO you have 8000 LP, and the most basic way you can win is by depleting your opponent's LP. When you introduce power creep to a game like YGO, which is natural and somewhat unavoidable, eventually you're going to hit a point where cards are so powerful that any end board becomes an OTK. Once every board becomes an OTK, you have to balance the game around that. That means you need a copious amount of interruptions, or outright floodgates, to stop your opponent from making an end board to begin with, OR if they do make an end board you need some sort of instant board wipe to get rid of it. Thing is, eventually these interruptions, floodgates and board wipes are basically an OTK on their own. If your opponent can't even play cards, then they've already lost even if their LP are still full. Right now YGO is just a battle of OTKs. Turn 1 puts up every interruption under the sun and OTKs their opponent by just stopping them from playing. Turn 2 uses hand trap floodgates and board wipes to OTK with beaters right after. There is no more real back and forth in YGO. Every duel with current meta decks is realistically already decided when the first hand is drawn. It makes the game incredibly boring.
Me an my buddy have been playing a lot of for fun games, and he's been playing salad vs whatever I feel like. Cybverse decks really exemplify this problem, if I cannot completely stop him or kill him and give him a turn (after turn 0 ofc) I just die to update accesscode every time. Its a weird feeling of "oh can I play through 3-5 interruptions and either kill him or have enough to stop him from rubbing 2 monsters together? No? Then I lose on the spot. Obviously this is a very specific situation, but it does feel like just the worse version of where the game is going as a whole.
in older formats like edison, hat etc, there are extremely few monsters with quick effects. cards like Light and Darkness Dragon, Stardust Dragon and a few others are extremely strong, but not unoutable. most of the on the opponents turn interaction comes in spells and traps. book of moon, mirror force, solemn judgment/warning, fiendish chain, etc... these cards exist on the field, and thus you can inherently play around them with cards like mystical space typhoon, heavy storm, giant trunade, night beam and more. I really enjoy these slower back and forth slug out games. "combos" are actually what the word means. using a combination of cards to create a powerful push or defend against one. but in all its a different game. modern yugioh cannot be compared to pre say... 2016. with some exceptions like windup or inzektor. I enjoy both. I think 2009-2011 is a sweetspot. where am I going with this? idk give us rotation and standard. I'll play both.
@andleepfarooqui7874 the back and forth in sword soul is you make baronne chixiao with blackout set. you opponent either has the cards to play through that, or you win turn 3.
11:28 If you want a recent example of this, look no further than Buddyfight. What was once an interesting-if-simple back and forth pretty quickly escalated to every single deck can FTK or lock the opp out of the game. Creatures got bigger, so we needed more attack negates, so we got more "this card's attack cannot be negated", so we got more multi attackers, so we got more "that card cannot attack", so we got more multiattacks by superior calling, so we got "their entire board cannot attack" so we end with "I am attacking for lethal on the first turn of the game". And this is just with combat, negation and burn have similar escalations. Part of it was sped up by the game knowing it was going to get canned but honestly now playing Magic it's really, really sold me on rotation.
Cardfight also had(s) that issue. Resulted in 2 reboots for rehab series as a result. Rotation imo is a much better solution than having to do that... I love V series in terms of game play but it's all but dead because they rebooted to curb the power creep. People complain about Rotation and change in YGO but never really tried it in some cases, or explored the different formats like Edison or GOAT. Watching the progression playoffs that MBT did is another good example too of semi Rotation
My response is Magic has its own issue you're ignoring, the same issue that arises for every card game. If not power creep, then Feature Bloat. How many keywords are their in Magic? How many are introduced with each set, knowing that they need new keywords to sell new cards. "Rotation can control the power level" except the least popular sets have always been the ones with the weakest cards, even ignoring how Standard in MTG was fucked sideways for years due to Eldraine fucking the format, then Kaldheim refucking it, oh and don't forget Kaladesh and Energy. Then of course we have companions which came in Ikoria and, again, utterly fucked the format and any argument of "Oh rotation solves the problem." Rotation doesn't solve shit, Magic can seem better until you're deep in it and realize it's totally garbage too, same for rotation. Fuck Pokemon's exactly the same, it may rotate but between Tagteams and Vmax and Gmax and V and 2 Prize, 3 Prize, extra bullshit that is inevitable power and feature creep because Pokemon saw when Advanced came out, what rotation did without power/feature creep, it signalled the biggest drop in Pokemon TCG's fiscal and player growth ever. In fact, we know 100% what happens for a card game with rotation, that rotates and doesn't grow stronger in one way or another. It dies. Most people don't what a MonColle is, but it was Japan's biggest fucking trading card game for years, it was the biggest thing, inspired so much... and then the first rotation happened and it fucking died. And it died because they didn't present a reason to players to pick up new product and players universally, from the dawn of Card Games will not go "Yeah I'll buy cards that are functionally the same as what I had but are weaker." There always ALWAYS needs to be something new. New Keyword, new card type, more power.
@@HavenKhaos YGO card text is designed in a way that keyword bloat can't really be a thing. If PSCT is the solution to this, i. e. the fundamental game design that allows for creation of new cards that are interesting without eclipsing everything that came before, it might actually be preferrable to a system of very specific keywords analogous to MtG. Though, how exactly is keyword bloat a problem at all? At some point you _might_ face an opponent who plays cards which they need to explain to you in that moment but that's nowhere near as bad as evermore escalating powercreep.
@@xCorvus7x I am not referring to the amount of Keywords present on a card, but mechanical bloat, as in, bloating in the rules, I would recommend watching TTC's "The Commander Deck of Tomorrow, Today" to give a succinct example of exactly how fucked MTG has become mechanically. And even ignoring that, MTG still has power creep, it does. From Energy to Adventures to Companions to Mutate to Foretell, mechanics that completely dominate and infect even Eternal formats is ridiculous, and Rotation doesn't solve it because the period of 2016 (Kaladesh) to 2021 (Midnight Hunt) was 5 years of Standard which was total cancerous hell.
@@HavenKhaos Neither am I. Putting more keywords on a card would just be the kind of overtuning some people criticise about Tearlament (because all of the Tearlament cards do a lot). I mean the invention of new game effects that would in MtG get new keywords, so you might end up playing against someone who uses cards the words on which you don't understand. Since YGO card text is written in plain text (or rather, text that looks plain), all effects are composed of various keywords arranged according to semantic rules, so you can just use the existing terms to describe new effects and doing this in a way that doesn't result in more text on cards seems pretty feasible (while it is true that some of the cards we have today have much more text than older ones, this trend doesn't really correlate with powercreep; the wordiest cards in the game belong to decks that aren't top-tier). As long as the semantic rules don't change, PSCT should be save from this kind of bloat; although, as said above, I don't find it too problematic to explain what my cards do to my opponent mid-game. MtG still has powercreep? Well, I only mean to draw on it for comparison during discussions.
yeah, cause they dont special as much, or the effects are rather tame to nowdays or based on mostly the battle phase, and mostly no quickeffect monsters
Basically this. If Konami would just shift the balance of power in the game away from "disruption spam" special summon spam decks, the game would probably be a lot healthier. Idk if Vanquish Soul is a step in the right direction or not in terms of card design (maybe ban/limit some floodgates first), but i honestly dont have an issue with decks like Runick Spright atm. Its really good, but i wouldnt call it unfair. The Fur Hire stuff though, idk what those players are thinking. It doesnt really seem to push any sorta game state imo. You'd be better off sitting on IP Masquerena or some shit so you can link off into a link 4 on the opponent's turn.
The biggest problem in YGO, in my opinion, is the fact that there are too many strong generic cards that are usable in most or all decks. Because of that you don't hit the actual problem cards in specific archetypes on the banlists. Instead, you hit the deck's consistency and keep the busted archetype's card legal so as to not mess up all the other decks using them. There needs to be more restrictions on what you can use strong cards with (e.g. requirements for summoning/use conditions). As for rotation in YGO - we could make a tournament with the current banlist and rotation rules to test it out for fun.
It’s very easy in my opinion, every extra deck monster out of an archetype should have summoning conditions using only archetype intern monsters (not some bs like 2+ effect monsters). Also in a single turn it shouldn’t be allowed to play more than one archetype. And all one card combo starters need a permanent ban.
Konami usually alwayyyys ends up banning these overly generic boss like monsters like halq, spright elf etc, whereas cards like baronne and accesscode are not unfair and added more depth, interaction and sustainability for various decks especially the rogue ones, to be able to combat the meta decks and balance the game, the same for the staples,board breakers that they release from time to time they allow more diversity and give way to more decks, the game is not centered around just control or combo or aggro oriented decks thats what separates us from the ocg, there’s more emphasis on deck building, intricate side deck choices, ideas for old cards coming back like book of eclipse and book of moon returning for kashtira and those cards still work and hit other decks so ur not rlly forcing urself to play cards u play for the case of the strongest deck but ur also cautious of other decks so yea.
I really wanna thank you for consistently posting stream highlights I love your content and the game but twitch is too much time consuming for me. Having the content on youtube is great i can speed up the videos, watch it as parts etc. Thank you again
I don't really play much of the actual card game anymore, TOSS was the last format I took seriously. Discussions about the state of the game, upcoming decks, and anything in that nature keep my love for the game alive though. Its weird, I like talking about Yugioh more than actually playing it (at least competitively).
Same here. I am always looking at updates and upcoming decks, and I'm creating somewhat creative, intentionally non-meta decks on EDOPro/DB, but I'm spending barely any time actually playing since the current state of the game just feels so toxic for the most part.
The game became a problem either when one card starters became the norm rather than something that got autobanned or when Raigeki stopped being considered one of the most broken cards in the game.
The comunity can host rotation formats, we even have master duel to make it for everyone. When companies don't want to do certain changes, we can do it for them and test how it works. We can even create more old formats, create some tournaments and see how it develops. But i think it's time to take some action instead of just pointing things we dislike and expect Konami to do something about it
I honestly love it when cards are decent going first, but amazing going second. The game has made going first so powerful and boring for so long and I miss when going second was a real option and not just drawing the out
I'm not gonna lie, I can remember like 3 formats total where going first wasn't a huge advantage, and I've been playing this game for 20+ years (although I haven't played the past 4 or so).
@@SunshineJesse Oh certainly the game always had an advantage towards those who go first, but it was far less pronounced back then. you could actually use traps going second and games often lasted longer than a single turn, not to mention there were cards like Cydra that made going second easier, but those types of options just don't exist in modern yugioh and the game has gotten so fast that if you can't instantly delete your opponent's board, you just die
Yu-Gi-Oh is a good game to play at locals only if you stick to meta or at least competent decks. It's miserable to bring out fun decks (Vaylantz, for example) and see all your combos die to the 2-3 handtraps the opponent likely drew, or the going 2nd cards if you manage to build any kind of board. I don't want to stick to summoning out Baronne and Savage Dragon again and again, it's just miserable to play 90% of decks.
Idk, there's people at my locals who play legit garbage, and I have fun playing my 2017 Invoked Shaddoll deck against them outside of the swiss. I know I'm gonna face good decks in swiss, so I also take my better deck to locals, but there's always plenty of people playing slower stuff that are down for an unofficial game. You can play for fun at your OTS, locals are not the only way to play the game.
Well, when you said fun, that is subjective. People find winning fun or playing decks that have a good chance of winning fun, so of course they would gravitate towards said decks. I get what you mean, but you can't tell people what to play and not to play, just gotta accept the fact that some decks just suck. I play some shit decks too but there's only so much you can do to get it up to speed to the current meta.
I think this meta just highlighted pretty much everything wrong with the game for over 3 years+ now: -absolutely 0 interaction games -insane cards -"just draw the out lol" -oppressive handtraps and board breakers -the over-centralization of the extra deck -throwing negates on literally everything -the inability to have an actual discussion about the game unless a youtuber says something first -the prices of cards consistently locking players out -more casual-rogue players being phased out To elaborate, a deck like shs is just dragon link 2.0; turbo as many negates as possible and just don't let your opponent play. Draw the out, or forfeit. The deck also has so many awesome synchros. Crazy how they're all just objectively worse than the generic option in baronne, so they'll never be played. If a deck can run baronne, it will make an appearance. It's nearly impossible to make a comment about the game without 1 in 3 comments being some variant of "YuGiBoOmEr, JuSt GeT gOoD lOl". The focus of the game being on the top of the competive ladder has also shifted the design philosophy to cards that work in the meta, but destroy any potential at rogue-level competition. Yugioh has a pretty obvious path to take: -a massive banlist that pretty much undoes the meta from around pile-format or slightly before. Hit instant win cards like evenly that are just oppressive against anything that doesn't go right for a negate. -errata a lot of the generic extra deck monsters or just ban them; konami, it's okay, not every deck needs access to a free omni on top of handtraps. -make future cards have actual interaction; more destroy, bounce, banish, flip, etc. effects instead of just making everything negate. -have some form of communication with the playerbase; I understand it's difficult to explain certain bans without outright saying "we want money" -take up the ocg print policy; it's infuriating when tcg players say "yeah, but konami has an agressive reprint policy". If maxx c can be at under $10 at a single copy in the ocg (before its reprint) as one of the most meta warping cards in the game, there is no reason the tcg should have a card with 7 printings sitting at $30. Or good cards being massively short printed
I think the best way we could define healthy interaction is that either deck can win going first OR second using just their engine so long as they play correctly. Meaning the game is more skill/quality play oriented. That might not be the most fun in everyones mind but competitively speaking i think that should be the goalpost.
Wonderful video, this is definitely something we need to be brought up and have Konami more responsive to. The game pace of Yu-Gi-Oh has slowly been building up and eventually there's only so far you can go while still being fun.
How is the game faster than it was 6 years ago? Games against stuff like Lab or Runick last way way longer than it did against SPYRAL. Yes, SPYRAL is a worse deck than Labrynth or Runick but for its time, it still built a pseudo FTK board that won you the game in turn 1.
@@gorgoneuryale8748no one can is speaking about 6 years ago lmao Mr4 is when the problem started to become unbearable by the most, mr4.5 didnt fix it and now the game is just a showdown between waifu archetypes
@@stylesheetra9411 lmao have you even been playing the game for that long? People have been saying "Go first and OTK on turn 3, nothing the other player can do except watch" since 2011. Pace of current yugioh didn't get faster in years.
@@gorgoneuryale8748 key difference is that those deck could be hit by hand traps and disruptions and they didnt play on the opponent turn, and most important, strong deck were hit fast teleDAD and pepe were broken and got hit by a e-banlist pretty fast tear was extremely stronger that anything ever same as spyral same as firewall Same as every kind of deck since mr4
Tear ruined Yugioh for me and I still find it hard to get back into the game. Not because of the actual deck but the horrendous discourse around it with people like MBT calling people that don't enjoy the deck a neanderthal and stuff. And considering that Yu-Gi-Oh is a community driven game, being in that community became horrible
Konami could have another master rule with an alternative format. It could even have its own banlist. They could easily test it out on Master Duel and that avoids any complaints from anyone that wants to continue just playing Advanced format because it's an option. With Magic the Gathering, like 12 years ago, Wizards of the Coast had an article about the problems with power creep and how to deal with it. They said creating cards on the same power level and cards that keep other strategies honest (in an interactive and fun way) was the solution. It doesn't have to be all or nothing like it is now.
no diving the game up just makes it more confusing. just limit most of new broken cards and start releasing balanced +1 cards or continous great effects
Great talk! I'm usually on the casual side of yugioh, but I always end up looking at how competitive is going. I don't know the last time I saw this many people agreeing that "the game format right now is not okay". I think we're not that far from the powercreep completely breaking the game.
The problem with Tear is that its answers aren’t exactly “healthy” either. The cards themselves just do way too much. Every monster is an extender, mills, and fuses (or in the case of Reino, sends something that fuses). And every spell/trap has a strong effect on field, while also triggering your monsters on resolution, AND they have a bonus search effect in the grave! It’s just not balanced at all.
@@AtlasV- in the video they talk about how if there were more decks like tear then it wouldn't be tear 0. The deck had a anser to everything and i think that was healthy
The arms race that is Yu-Gi-Oh is quite interesting to watch as someone who likes the game but only plays master duel. If I were a professional player or content creator for the game I would work on a plan b in case the game implodes in the future... I don't have too much faith in Konami to be honest.
@@f1r3hunt3rz5 Given how Coder and Farfa reacted to the idea of rotation on MBT's Magical Hats mini show, I doubt it was every the plan. Regardless it will take few years to if the current problems in Standard is going to remain or not when it comes to MTG. As Sets are planned out and built years out,
You know what would be cool content for you to make, Josh? It’ll be a lot of work but it would be really cool to see: you design 3-5 brand new archetypes and do a tournament with the archetypes you created. You’d have to put some specific rules into place of course but I think it would amazing content to watch and experience.
I agree on pretty much every point. Card design is key, and the idea of making in-engine cards that become better on going second is a really good idea and i also makes going second interesting because it balances the difference of "strength" between going 1st and 2nd
Great video. One thing missing from your critique is that there is no vehicle for us to provide feedback to konami regarding the tcg (short of emailing them). I'm not sure how Konami is supposed to "listen to the community" when there is no system in place to enable them to do so....
I honestly think that POTE format prior to DABL and Mavens was the most recent excellent format. When Josh was talking about how an influx of decks that power-creep everything but interact with each other in a healthy manner could be a solution to the game's current issues, well, that's what happened with POTE. Tear, Spright, Mathmech, Rikka, etc. were all super viable, super enjoyable decks that all did different things and weren't degenerate. Then Bystials, crazy Tear support, and the Ishizu cards hit...
i mean i liked ishizu tear and it was an exciting time, but i agree, POTE format was a peak format. it was a lot of fun, tear wasn’t truly the best deck nor was spright, and mathmech always had a place in the format. the one problem was mystic mine. dabl format was fun too though, but it was literally 2 weeks long.
I still want to know what kind of crack they were on when they made the Ishizu’s. “Oh, the Graveyard is basically a second hand? Well, here’s 4 cards that completely invalidate the Graveyard” Add in how they made Tear - which was something of a High Roll deck if you didn’t Mill well - ultra consistent to creating Tear 0, someone had to be on something when those were greenlit…
As someone who didn't play Tear format but has dabbled in lots of card games, Tear sounds like it should've been the new baseline for card design. Bring everything to that level so that you have in-engine ways to address weaknesses but create intentional design so you can't prepare for everything. The game then relies on a good pilot who understands the decks weaknesses and compensates with either certain lines of play or deckbuilding choices.
While this is a common sentiment, it is a horribly misguided one. If Tear became the new baseline, the game dies in 2 years tops. Even setting aside that yorue basically rebooting the game by taking every other deck to have ever existed, and throwing it in the trash (which alone would be enough to kill the game), it fundamentally misunderstands what the core audience of YGO is. YGO is primarily aimed at a (relatively) casual audience. Those players do not want decks that are as complex, and as a result exhausting, as Tear is. Because at that point, even locals become a chore. If I wanted a complex and exhausting game as my hobby, Id personally pick up fighting games again. No, the primary audience wants primarily to have variety of decks you can choose, in aesthetic, gameplay *and difficulty*. Swordsoul is fairly linear, and it was popular. People want a game where you can choose to have as much, and as little, effort you need. Essentially what you want is to fundamentally change the entire game, and make it unpalable to the 99% for the 1%.
@DarkKnight179 Thank you for understanding the problem with this take. HOW in the ever-loving mother of fuck do you alter the power level of hundreds of archetypes to appease the existence of one? It's complete lunacy.
@@DarkKnight179 Almost every deck in the game is already in the trash so nothing would be different. Decks die everytime powercreep happens. Also, the core audience of the game is not relatively casual. We have some of the largest irl competitive events of any card game. If you are arguing that the game should be really simple and easy for anyone to win, I don't think that's healthy for the game since it will get boring very fast. Look at how popular Edison format is. It is one of the most complex and difficult formats in the game's history and is extremely popular
@@yuseifido5706 Almost every, and every, are two different things. And decks can come back. Plus yknow, we have eternal staples like Strikers, like SwoSo, even to some degree like BA that keep coming back, and the community LIKES that. Not to mention, at locals you dont need the top meta deck. No, the core audience is relatively casual. Youre both confusing "going to tournaments" as being the opposite of casual (Do you not know a bunch of people who go to a YCS just to have fun, and usually drop out in round 6 or 7?), and assuming that having bit competitive events is the same as being all competitive. The point is that those complex situations shouldnt be forced on you. People want to play simple decks sometimes. Making every deck like Tear basically removes that possibility. Thereby killing the game.
been playing ygo since kin teledad and quit after zodiac came back into prank kids i can say, ishizu tearlament has been the best format. i really enjoyed the deck and it requires so much skill. kashtira and dino rabbit been the same
I cant agree on "Tearlaments being good Yugioh" Being able to play around virtually anything is not good and all a Tearlament mirror boils down to is who mills the better cards. Once there is no counterplay .....
powercreep is forced rotation you know lol, and its even worse, its make your card worthless as they get powercrept, while rotation usually decrease the value by a bit but not much since you can still play your old cards in eternal formats
@@ganyumaindayone1112 There are plenty of examples of cards being worth a significant amount years past their due rotation date. It's really just the engine cards, which tend to be the cheap side of things anyways with notable exceptions, that at all are affected. Plus, legacy formats? Konami can't even support one alternate format all too well, and everything new they tried outside of the main current format has been a flop. I think rotation is poor in concept, but trying to realistically apply it today is also never happening.
@@defectivesickle5643 yu gi oh is too far gone to have any rotation or format anyway, thats why i just play some edison with friends and the old video games, aint touching that glorified solitaire game that is modern yu gi oh, i'll stick to mtg for competitive tcgs
I FUCKING LOVE IT when y'all talk about Tear format. "Floodgates are unhealthy but Tear format was the best format. When you got hit with *insert floodgate* you could just *insert floodgate* and wait it out." """"""Healthy interaction"""""
He said that I was gonna put his ass on a blast for being hypocritical and hell yeah I'm gonna do that but just on one thing. He said that Ariseheart is a monster that nullifies 60% of the game and that's unhealthy and I agree with that but, then he proceeds to say that Tear was a better designed deck and that deck nullifies 95% of the game man. I don't care how skillful or involved the mirror is, You don't have to be a genius to see that this is not good for the game and no, the solution is not creating more archetypes that nullify 95% of the game, that's a really bad solution.
I am a firm believer in a full reset but in terms of a massive limited/ simi limited list to water down decks. Similar to how Edison felt before it was solved. every deck that players were testing was just a watered down variant. With this sort of route it would be easier to introduce new fair archetypes. Also narrow down true problematic cards for future bans.
The problem of having more decks with the same power level of tear is......how? How you make an archetype so strong and adaptable to compete to full power tear ishizu. A deck that have destroyed Spright....you have to create an archetype of monsters that can special summons themselves with quick effect from the hand and once summoned they can special summon an other one from the deck and every one of the them have a quick effect that can make them synchro or xyz an archetypical monster. And they have to summon a synchro 8, that on summon add a card of the archetype to the hand and have a quick effect to banish without targeting, cards from the opponent field to the number of archetypical cards you control. That's the only way I can think of an archetype strong as tearalaments ishizu.....but it would be a disaster.
The problem is how its addicting because it resembles gambling. Thankfully I enjoyed my time until I didnt and replaced yugioh with another addiction simply because I'm major depresso espresso... everyday nowadays i spend it wondering why I'm still alive...
It is, I Quit the game a year ago and focused in my major adición to aggressive rollerblading, but a couple months ago I had a relapse and started building a PK and Hero decks, I feel like I am wasteing my time and money
@@uanbaggins I've had those moments. If you can manage it and not let it become unhealthy then you should be alright. It is ok to enjoy what you love though
@@jordanyoung8703 you are probably right, but somehow I feel I am doing something illegal 😅, I don’t feel like that when I buy skates, wheels, skate parts, knee pads, etc.
@@uanbaggins That's most likely because you banned Yugioh in your mind and made it illegal to go back to. It's an understandable thing, you made it off limits but your appreciation for it brings you back.
I absolutely love your discussion style videos. I can watch and be entertained or I can throw my phone in my pocket while working and get the same quality just listening.
Ur absolutely right I’m not an tear fan, didn’t liked the tear format or playing tear. But Tear itself wasn’t even the biggest problem in tear format. The ishizu shuffler’s were because they killed every deck the used the grave what basically is most decks in general.
Thats not what killed graveyard decks. The prevalence of shifter as a way to counter Tear was. Which is the fault of Tear. The Ishizus themselves actually dont stop GY decks, we saw that in MD who released the Ishizus first, and the duelist cup with Ishizus legal was like 80+% graveyard decks.
@@DarkKnight179 That’s so not true shifter is ass because u need to hard draw it and it is dead as soon something is in the grave. There is simply not a reliable way to get that card. Of course shifter is a stupid card that should exist but I can still live with losing the 20 - 30% games where they have it and that’s not even counting that u can counter it with called by. I rarely lost a game to shifter in MD but way more to ishizu shufflers. Naturally they didn’t do much at the start because people first needed some time to figure out way to bring them constantly in the grave to obuse them. Sure tear did help them a lot because they allways get them in the grave but without the shuffler’s tear didn’t do that much. Realistically they would have what a spacial summon negate, a shuffle and there traps at best they also could have an pop from the field. That’s still good but other decks can also do similar amounts of interruptions.
@@mechaliz495 perhaps but there's a lot of back row removal in the game, so you can focus your deck building on your strategy and back row removal cards if necessary and you don't have to worry that much on your opponent summon vomiting while taking forever to complete their turn and having the same end board as everyone else. However the amount of special summoning per turn is open for discussion. Or maybe increase the amount of lifepoints each player has so that they can survive an onslaught of 3000 atk or more monsters with multiple negates.
One comment i saw in the chat was "Konami doesn't make money unless they powercreep old cards" Who said anything about buying new cards? Formats like Pauper in MTG are extremely popular for budget players since its restricted to commons only and taps into a plethora of old, cheap cards that are never going to be reprinted for standard format. Yugioh attempted a similar format to this, but they never really established a banlist and the community hasn't created one for it thus far either, so its not really seeing play. And of course you also have commander, which to my knowledge doesn't have set rotation and therefore has a wide assortment of strategies to work with across the entirety of Magic's history (and the big thing is that since its not a 1v1 format, its incredibly unsolved).
Yes I was saying that all the time during the tear format, we need more decks like tearlaments. Flexible, consistent and adaptable with in archytipe ways to unswer any threat(*cough cough* skystriker) while not relying on stopping your opponent from being able to play. Decks nowadays are just to afraid to lose if they let the opposing deck do anything they want
13:05 we are at that point, we have been at that point for a while, its just more noticeable now due to power creep, 20 years ago was like, do you have the raigeki to out my monster(s), yes no, let go to game 2, now is do you have nibiru before i lock us into level 2, yes no, can you do anything after my board of negates then, yes, no, lets go to game 2, the thing is, yes, the archetypes are just one uping each other instead of being reworked, its basically a singularity and next year we are getting more support that caters to this, just like with Superheavy samurais and probably battlin boxers and volcanic too in a few months
The answer IMO is take every easily summonable omni-negate and lead them behind the shed and put them down, and whack Appo while you're at it. Being able to go into an early negate to insulate your combo from interaction is just a step too far and leads to horribly unfun meta's. I think Savage dragon should be the ceiling for an omni negate. You need to make link plays and THEN summon Savage dragon AND THEN you have to target one of those links in grave, and equip it. Not only does this require actual set -up but you can interact with it in a ton of hand traps that see a bunch of play. Compare this to summoning Barrone, which for a deck like Swordsoul is simply activating Longyuan which doesn't really lose against any handtraps other than Kelbek, the Adventure engine which is just a free omni for a ton of decks, or the 5th summon Appo's (which are super fun) This would also make a lot of "the outs" to combo decks unnecessary to have in the game, and then we could ban them.
The main problem has been so many Omni-negate being the extra deck, and having nothing other the levels or different names to get to them. Like Savage Dragon is good on the amount of steps it takes, but if it needed a dark dragon or something like that would have been fine. Baron should have required a wind monster or turner, ect. Appo is just a major problem with how easy it's to mass summon in today era of Yugioh.
Josh, powercreep in card games is not a natural phenomenon. We're talking about games, human creations, objects of culture, and there's no powercreep in Uno or 6 nimmt. Powercreep is a consequence of a certain marketing strategy, which is to get players to buy new cards by appealing to their competition with each other. New cards could be interesting for at least two other reasons: new game mechanics and aesthetics, and the former still appeals to competitiveness to some extent as people try to be the first to find out how to use new mechanics, or cards for that matter, to their advantage. Cards don't need to be absurdly strong to potentially give you an edge, it might just be the last missing piece falling into place (which raises the question to what extent Konami simulates the impact of new cards). While it might be difficult to create new archetypes of the same power level as those before, Konami would still sell cards if the new ones didn't eclipse everything up to that point; less cards, may be, but far from none.
Master duel player: in under a year we watched graverkeeper & Umi go from top 15 to: Ishizu, punk, vern, naturia; vomiting out 7/8 of the top sychro cards in the game through 3 negotiations then omi negating your entire hand turn 0. Now we have full power tearlaments in silver 4. Everything before branded fusion(the BS that started it all) is completely unplayable. Never thought I’d miss Drytron & Eldich lololol
I want someone to explain to me what it means to "design decks on the same powerlevel as Tear". Tear wasn't just a "strong deck", it was a deck that needed to be responded to in a very specific way. Every single card in Tearlament isn't just overtuned, they explode if the opponent so much as touches them in any manner and makes things worse for you. A deck that punishes you for responding to it is not fun to play against. Other decks that compete with Tear would have to be built around the existence of Tear, meaning they're extremely limited in terms of gameplay design. The only way around that is something like Kashtira that just puts a Macro on the board instead of jumping through the hoops of actually dealing with the absurdly explosive Tear cards.
It means making decks that are just as explosive as Tears. The only reason Tears needed such incredibly strict counters was because it was the only way a different deck could keep up without having Tear's absurd recursion or effective absence of chokepoints. But that doesn't mean Macro has to remain the only way to beat Tear, as shown in Tear mirrors or Tear vs Spright. Powercreep is never going away and and it's effectively impossible to force duels to take more turns without stall tactics, so the best solution is probably to embrace the speed and resource loop of Tear. Give up on making the game slower or countering unbreakable boards with duel-deciding one-offs, and instead have both sides playing equally fast decks that can consistently play on each other's turns, always interacting and baiting and aiming to end on the most advantageous board, never just sitting in wait while one guy combos off for 15 minutes.
It's not "on the same power level", Tear's powerlevel was clearly too high and unsustainable in long term, but "in similar manner (design wise)". Ishtear doesn't care whether it goes first or second, it can kickstart it's plays on turn 1 regardless and sidestep whatever you were going to throw at it. It has a wide variety of tools to deal with pretty much everything and strong resource loop to back it up. Come to think of it, Ishtear is quintessential yugioh control deck. What people generally want is to get rid of this hard go first/go second dichotomy and for new decks to be focused more on resource grind rather than setting up floodgates or trying to bring in an extensive amount of negates as quickly as possible.
I really have to disagree on Havnis being good card design, I don't think a card that reads "Have full access on your engine turn 0 because your opponent activated a card effect on their turn" was healthy for the game, in fact it was down right toxic. I also don't think playing "let's see who mills the most shufflers" is nearly as skill intensive as people like to pretend it was.
@@gatocochino5594 Do you really think it's fair to full combo before your opponent plays simply because they activated an effect? Do you really think getting to Summon Winda because your opponent had the audacity to try to play the game is healthy? The amount of cope and cap from tear players is absurd.
51 minutes video commented After 1 minute when in the title there Is "healty discussion" and u somehow connect Yu-Gi-Oh=healty, btw After 6 minutes he says that the 72 hours event was unhealty
Tbh I don't think you can support Tear, but hate on Circular. You're saying that decks have to be at similar power levels for the game to be more fair, but you didn't complain that Tear can make Bagooska. Tears fusion mechanic basically cheats just like how Circulars cost is also cheating basically.
Also if a deck like Tear can play through several interruptions/beats out every other deck, it basically is a Floodgate deck at that point. You also say you don't like having to side against too many decks, that's exactly what you would have to do if all decks were at the same broken power level as Tear
@@nxiss It's more like, on top of everything Tear can also make Bagooska/Dweller/Elf and that's just not ok. Tearlament should've at-least had a fusion lock tied to it, it would've prevented a lot of the issues IMO. It's not like the lock would've done much, they have in archetype outs to everything, and this would've made Tear meta a lot more interesting.
@@nxissIt's true that Bagooska is generic rank 4. But in Mathmech case for example, the players don't play Bagooska at all. Mathmech monsters have effect that if they're special summoned the player cannot special summon monsters from extra deck except cyberse monsters. That kind of restriction doesn't apply to Tear at all. Tear player can still xyz synchro link etc any kind of monsters from their extra deck. It seems like for me Tear is just Branded but without restriction.
I'd be interested in rotation as a second format but supported with every main set, then proceeding to exclusively print things way lower power level than current format. Basically saying "we're stopping power creep, you can still play current YGO but it's not going to evolve very quickly" and secretly making the rotation format the actually premier format if it does well or going back to normal power creep if it never catches on. I still haven't seen a good argument against rotation outside of "but it's new so we don't like it", so slowly introducing it makes more sense.
Konami can't just flip a switch and make Yugioh rotate now. That's not what the past 25 years of a fanbase was built on. Hell, rotation is also one of the primary reasons Paper Standard MTG is dying once WOTC removed the incentive to play it.
#BattlePhaseMatters What if we increase the LP to much higher than the current 8000 LP like 16000LP or even more 80000LP (remember that we had 2k LP in first anime season)?? I know it sounds stupid but at least it's much easier approach to try out for now to increase the games' length a bit longer for like 2-3 turns... Then we will deal with broken negate cards later, since now we at least have some tradeoffs between Huge ATK monster VS 3k Monster with just Negations. Just think about why 2k-4k LP is fine and balance in Yugioh Anime Series back then and also Burn-First-Turn-Kill also got partially mitigated.
Tear does everything. How is that good design? It is overloaded with effects, and every card is an extender along with its normal effects. And then for some reason, it also has ZERO locks, so it can run whatever the fuck generic card it wants, and so can do even more. Why should a deck have an answer to literally everything? That is not a well designed archetype, and I gotta wholeheartedly disagree.
If you watched the top cuts in tear format you can point to an involved play (required good decision making and foresight) that won or lost the game in each match except for the ones where one player bricked. Teat can play through anything but not everything all at once so you had to layer your interactions in such a way that stops tear. For example tear can play through a bystial/shuffler but not 3 in 1 turn. Jesse playing through 4 turns of dweller and managing to climb back up to a scenario where hani better have ttt is a sign of a truly skillful format.
You're missing the entire point. In a Tear mirror, it's cool that both decks have answers to everything because it creates good back and forth. Does it powercreep other decks? Absolutely, but that's why they need to print more archetypes that act like it. Other decks have just one gameplan and lose to specific outs. This is what enables uninteractive games.
My main problem with the deck is that EVERYTHING floats, that invalidates so many types of board wipes without even having to lift a finger. If only the main deck monsters had floating effects, or if the floating effects on the backrow cards required them to not be on the field it would probably be fine. Tri-Brigade was annoying for similar reasons, but to nowhere near this scale, and it that was specifically designed AS a splash archetype(both with Branded/Albaz cards and with Tri-Beasts as a whole). The fact that a card as powerful as Raigeki(sometimes used to help answer Spright) does NOTHING to this deck is at all is nuts already, it didn't need to recycle card advantage off every Duster and Lightning Storm as well.
@@nh6574 how is not having counters, only checks, to an archetype a good thing? That gets stuff banned in every other gaming formate, to the point that even Pokemon invented a tier just to keep them from torpedoing the other, actually fun playstyles (Ubers). Why is Yugioh the only exception to this, where something being so overtuned and persistent means everything else has to be that annoying and redundant?
I think yesterday's Europe's semifinals with that Jessica tranny winning solely with Harpie's Feather Duster explains best the complexity of Yugioh. Konami tried making the game super diverse and fun where any deck could land you a victory if you play it properly, but then a single card can ruin your perfect plan and everything crumbles. Ain't nobody reading walls of text, paying hundreds of dollars for a single deck, just for some rando to defeat you through RNG. No disrespect to Jessica, but a single 2002 card winning it all makes no sense.
Regarding limiting the special summons per turn, it is a great idea. The bigger issue that I've heard is "well if you like resource limits, go play magic". So I guess it's more identity and (personally) the player base WANTING to be over the top with bordering abusive plays.
Pllleeeeeeeaaaase can we stop bringing up rotation without also acknowledging that it would be its own separate format. Every single argument against fails to acknowledge that you retain the option to play yugioh EXACTLY as it is now in addition to a rotating, less powerful but still very modern game.
Supporting some older archetypes with the intention of making them function as engines that can fill certain deckbuilding niches while still maintaining the thematic gimmick for said archetype. Also literally just konami figuring out a new format that compensates for or solves the issues of advanced format for good
this im having the time of my life playing volcanics and i allways loved them. My fav deck ever and im beyond happy for the support i can go to locals and play
i love the idea of in-archetype equivalents to non-engone staples. and in-archetype cards specifically made to go second. off topic but imagine a Shifter errata like "banish the opponent's NEXT card that goes to gy", anti spell having something like "the opponent may discard a spell to destroy this card". Floodgates that let the opponent still make interesting choices without being completely locked out of the game. "*What* do I surrender to shifter and fragrance", idk it sounds nice
My issue with Tear was partly "it's so powerful you had to play it to compete" but also "it's so powerful it completely invalidates 99% of the cards in the game". What is the point of an eternal game with no rotation if the latest product punishes anyone who doesn't keep up. That's Bushiroad bs design.
Problem with yugioh is that without floodgates its really hard to not havr a tier 0 format. Because their is no mana system the deck that generates the most advantage will generally be the best deck. How other decks compete is through floodgates. In other games the restrictions on the ammount of inputs you have in a turn makes it so you have different styles of decks, yugioh doesnt have that.
mbt doing good job at addressing the problem. but aint no way, tearlament is a healthy deck. the same "draw the out" argument is also apply to tearlament. i mill the out. i think we already have so many mill deck and they cannot even compare to tearlament. because mill deck are balanced because their card are limited on card good at milling and card that good at being milled. but a lot of tearlament cards is like a crazy combination of that grass look greener and orcust harp horror. also tearlament end board is just stupid, it have interuption in both monster and backrow, and even if you clear it in conventional way, the backrow generate more advantage and the monster just revive themself anyway. and if you think thats not enough, you can just play after your turn because it turns out there are tearlament card that is a combo starter and also handtrap.
Do Yu-gi-oh need a set rotation : yes, but as you stated, a lot of people might quit because of it. So maybe what Konami should do is focus on alternate formats to test the waters : one being a set rotation format
The game died for me when opponents started to summon multiple monsters on my own turn, the game became an absolut mess, i will play with my friend for fun, but i will never ever buy cards again
I'd be happy if going second you would just get your "draw" immediately, open 6 and don't draw your first turn. Would give you a better chance to open hand traps or to see immediately if you drew "The Out" so you wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes for you opponent to combo to see if you can actually play or not.
Scrap wyvern ist gut für First, aber bei going second kannst du gegnerische Karten poppen. Genauso wie beyond the pendulum. Es sind keine summon Effekte , also kann man darum spielen, ist aber trotzdem gut. Ein gutes Beispiel ist auch mikanko arabesque, dass man gegnerische Monster bouncen kann und nicht nur die eigenen 🤷♂️
the way yugioh could be better ? 1-Stop the 1 format deck: this is stupid and completely unheakty for the game. 2-Errata the non-hopt banned cards. 3-Print better support for rogue decks and low tier decks. 4-CREATE A GOOD YUGIOH GAME WITH THE ACTUAL TCG AND OCG BANLIST. STOP THE MASTER DUEL CRAP. WITH ONLINE PAYING. With tournement online, prices for the winner, second and third place The fact that Konami dont know how please the players and make money at the same time is unbelievable. They have everything to please all king of yugioh players but they only focus about money.
I think one of the best things about yugioh is that there isn't set release date determined 'seasons', as long as it's not on the ban list, cards from day 1 can be used. But, that's also the worst thing about yugioh - they just simply can't balance the game at this point, there is zero possibility... which leads to the only other option which is unreasonable power creep to not be stagnant. It's hard to see a way they can get out of the hole they are digging.
I feel like the major shift in the game for me which led to me not enjoying it so much was around 2017 with zoo format. I love combo decks but really don't like current yugioh and I realised it's because I liked the challenge of making my deck do more than the current standard, and figuring out the different 3 or 4 or even 5 card combos that could lead to it, or how to put together an otk in a deck that usually couldn't do it. But since 2017 I think that pretty much every deck has been able to do a play that's enough to win the game with 1 or 2 cards. The excepts are a few decks like pendulum magician with the various ftks, danger ftk and those weren't any better for the game. I remember joking with someone around zoo format that where could the power creep go next, they'd have to make everything be a hand trap extender floater. Fast forward a few years and we've got bystials and havnis.
I know this is a month late but you got a subscribe from me, your idea on a multi situational card for first or second is a really good direction and i think they qre top toeing in that direction in their own way
Yes, there's no one saying the no rotation format ygo has right now should go away, like how MTG has Legacy/Vintage formats where all the cards ever printed are legal. and for those naysayers who say " what about my DM deck?! Sure most of the time I lose, but it's unique to pick-up an old archetype to a tourney. and what about the staple cards rotating out?!", they can just reprint the cards so that they can be in rotation. then we solved 2 problems at once. staple reprints, and you can still use your old cards if they reprint them, and the eternal format is still there if you still want no rotation. what this game really needs at the moment is new blood, and the need to lower the barrier to entry is essential to the survival of this game.
I think the concept of tear is fine and unique but as you said where there's nothing that can compete with it is the issue and also I think it would of still been fine but then the izhizu stuff came in when we both have to mill now that where it went very wrong
Very good and insightful video. I think MBT just has to face the truth that "ignorance is bliss" regarding the Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Game. Why we don't get reasoning behind banlist changes even though OCG tends to get them? Because Konami would have to give up their whole Spiel, exposing that the banlist is mainly utilized to promote product, and promote product only. Also, the actual reasons given would be pretty redundant, you don't need to hear "this card is broken" for the dozenth time, it gets quite self-explanatory at some point. Why is Konami not transparent with their playerbase? Because said playerbase has misbehaved multiple times ('Ban Firewall'-Facebook-fiasco, asking employees via their private socials 'when the banlist comes out' for decades, etc. etc.) I believe the first RUclipsr to have mentioned the idea of a 'Cold War of Powercreep' (i.e. print strong card, print even stronger card), all these years ago, was Farfa who made an analogy to "hitting Equilibrium." "Don't you think that at some point cards can't possibly become any better and we have hit the peak of powercreep?" Moving forward, I would like to give my approach, and answer: "The Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Game has already hit the point of Equilibrium a very long time ago." I know this community likes to meme about this card a lot recently (due to Joshua's distaste for it...rightfully! lol), but Mathmech Circular being able to build up 3 Negates with a Hand and field-rip on top of that, while being a single card, should be a dead giveaway that we have hit a point where single cards can't possibly do even more by themselves. Funnily enough, due to his own 'I unban all these cards'-series, MBT himself should be pretty aware about the fact that many older archetypes would still be able to compete if they were full power (Nekroz, True Draco, Zoodiac, etc.), but allowing these type of decks to stay around, simply doesn't promote product. I think the majority of the playerbase has to learn that even though Konami is a family-oriented company, it's a company first and foremost.
the most annoying but not fundamentally problematic aspect of power creep is how turns get massively extended even when there's so few of them. sure games last 3 turns tops but each turn has like 6 searches and link climbing and whatever. at least magical scientist had the decency to just pull out a purple gun and shoot you
Few things for starters the LP when the game was 1st created average summon able monster was 1200-1500 with a few higher exceptions and special summoning was scarce. In modern Yu-Gi-Oh you can easily bring out 3-5 +3k beatsticks in a single turn obviously this is a core mechanics that needs adjusted. A bare minimum it's up'd to 24k LP to be somewhat viable. On the discussion of special summoning should be more restrictive. A rule change to a max of 3 special summons per turn and if you summon 3 you cannot summon monsters till your next turn really taxing combo decks. Negates,Omni negates,and big boss monsters completely unaffected by card effects is pretty toxic personally I'd love to see them all banned same goes with handtraps, but in handtraps defense they exhist because of the overall toxic gameplay. If the other cards that got hurt then drop handtraps to 1 copy allowed to be played. Another issue is lazy OP splashable monsters that have little cost they need to be made more restrictive or banned. Finally cards that allow you to play during your opponent turn and turn their turn as in additional resource obviously gotta go. That's only a few things I can think of the top of my head. Oh right they should make older decks badly needed support so they can contend with the top meta.
As a yugi player for 10 years now, i start to be really borred of powercreep even tier 0 decks become unplayables or rogue decks, after 6 months when konami release a new meta deck or a new banlist who is "money oriented" rather than "meta oriented" i really feel that we need to pay TON of money and spend ton of my TIME in deck building and optimization, to be able to play for a very very SHORT time, until we need to do it ALL over again just because konami decided it... it's a waste of money and time but in addition it also hurt a lot… Because you see your favorite decks become so bad and fall from Tier 0/1 to tier 99. It's even worst when you see Konami release cards who steal gameplay mechanics of old meta decks. Release horus instead of releasing some support cards for orcust is an insult for every orcust players. In the same way , limit tearlaments while they are OBLITERED by snake-eye / fire king is also a joke and definitely money oriented. Limit ishizu cards but not Bystial is a non-sense. Ban Block dragon for his recycle power but let Labyrinth loop and recycle for years during the stanby phase is also disgusting. Old meta deck or meta cards feared of everyone in the past like adamancipator / ABC / Spyral / Dragoon or even DPE are now either completely unplayable, either bad, either bricky , cards of those deck are still banned while even at full power they would do nothing against snake eye / fire king. TL;DR : Yugioh in 2024 is a waste of time / money who hurt you by auto nerfing all the stuff you love or loved in the game few months after release. Playing yugioh in 2024 will always end in deception. Considering all of this above, Magic the gathering is probably a way better game than yugioh (and as yugioh fan it really hurt to say this)
I can't understand the logic behind Tears being healthy. You believe that they were lealthy only based on the Tear vs Tear match up. No, their interactions weren't healthy. You can't mil your opponents entire deck and call it healthy, you can't make full board on your opponents first turn and call it healthy, you can't have many ways to out your only counters and call it healthy. Honestly, I don't know why there are still people defending that Tears were healthy and balanced.
@@matthewradabaugh1635 To be fair, that’s a Tear problem, not a Shifter problem. The problem with Tear was that one-for-one trades didn’t work against it because it gained so much advantage and never needed to expend resources as a cost to do anything, so the only way to stop it was with floodgates like Shifter.
7:00 - 9:00 This whole section sounds exactly like someone I know. He's incredibly competitive but he also loves cube and when he first played it, he said it was the most fun he'd ever had playing yugioh. He also had the same experience when worlds points were first announced and went to almost every regional that was on and basically had almost no available weekends. He would somewhat regularly go to two regionals on opposite sides of the country in one weekend and also travelled overseas to get points.
The main problem with current Yugioh is that is doesn't have a cost system (like mana in MTG or memory in Digimon). Originally this was not a problem because the game was slower, but now, even crappy decks can fill the board and OTK you if they are not interrupted. This makes the use of powerful floodgates and handtraps a necessity, which are also a way of beating your oponent in one turn by not allowing them play.
As much as I love yugioh playing it at high level has really just left me drained. So just 3 days ago i decided to download and try magic the gathering arena, and im so glad i did. It's like a breath of fresh air.
Yu-Gi-Oh went off the rails a looong time ago. I’d say it started going down the drain when Pendulums came out. It introduced the first field change and cards that no longer looked or functioned like yugioh cards, but we started seeing insanely consistent archetypes and strategies you couldn’t keep up with. I like archetypes and the introduction of cards that gave decks some consistency, but at some point it just became obnoxious. And the freaking hand traps, they’re the definition of un-fun. Kuriboh was fine, but when Ash Blossom hit the scene it all hit the fan. And it doesn’t help that at this point, hand traps became a necessary evil, if you don’t want to lose turn 1.
Pendulums could have been fine had they handled it better. It's a very interesting summoning mechanic, even to this day. But it was in the Pendulum Era that Konami seemed to forget what a "cost" or a "drawback" is.
imo, Konami should mainly focus on introducing new powerful cards to previous archetypes. Seriously, if they're gonna do this power creep thing every few months or so then they need to even out the playing field for the previous archetypes.
Tearlaments by itself are actually really cool, but the Ishizu cards took it too far. I would like them to ban those, and at least semi-limit all the Tearlaments. As for your points about Tier 0 formats, I am fine with the idea of them, but the cost of the deck is my problem. I'm not mad that Konami is essentially forcing me to play a Tier 0 deck, I'm mad thay Konami is essentially forcing me to pay hundreds of dollars to play Yu-Gi-Oh. And, sure, they're a business, and they need to make money. And that means absolutely nothing, because I can't afford to spend that kind of money. It doesn't matter how good or healthy the deck is, or how much money Konami needs so they can meet their quarterly; if I can't afford it, then I can't afford it. Finally, I would like to see more cards Havnis, actually, although maybe not generating as much advantage. Ideally it would involve the opponent having to deal with it before their turn is over, as opposed to them losing their turn. Edit: this is just me daydreaming, but I've wondering what a modern Nekroz style ritual deck would like, if they had effects similar to Havnis (obviously you would have to adjust them so they work as ritual cards). They're not completely useless by themselves, but they're still ritual cards, which is already a huge downside.
@@newfaces_v2 good thing I didn't talk about competing then. Playing 5 full-powered ishizu Tearlaments at a local with my $100 deck isn't exactly fun. Unsurprisingly, attendance there tanked, until that deck was hit.
So you want to go back to tier 0 with the only other viable deck being Kashtira, and floodgates everywhere? Because thats what your suggestion would do (unless you want to keep Kitkalos banned, that we could try).
Ishizu actually can be healthy and fine if its only affect its controller deck. Miller can make gy based deck became consistent (as proved by tear itself and bunch of gy pile on master duel pre tear) and shuffler also became a good generic recovery tool (which more than 60% deck lack of). And yes,Konami predatory/capitalism take on card rarity approach also the biggest problem there At least ocg was sane enough to compensate its rarity card. Tcg however....
@@reirei_tk I don't know what you're playing this format but tear was one of the most affordable decks in recent times. Every current meta deck is 500$ or more for a full deck. Except for maybe Spright. In fact, a lot of rogue decks are MORE expensive than tear ever was. I have no idea why this meme that tear was forcing players out of the game because it was too expensive still exists, it's just simply not true.
I'm sorry but this idea that the Yu-Gi-Oh community has of "we don't want new mechanics, just cool cards" is EXACTLY the reason why it's still considered a "niche" hobby. Refusing to evolve past what it is and be experimental is good this game dies. "We have it right where we want it, don't fuck with it" is just dumb
As a new player it feels like every link deck is an access code deck and every synchro deck is a baronne deck and not running them is akin to throwing. Which makes the whole archetype things seem pointless if the archetype cards aren't powerful enough to stand on their own
I mean it aways staples the game but I be hounst kashtrea is the deck I want gone only because zone lock is not fun
yah i agree i honestly just want balanced decks not too complicated but a variety of decks being played
@@NoNameOrLife exactly
@@lloydbagby8355study English language a little more before commenting next time 🙏
@GutsmanLoL not everyone has English as their first language. Broken English means he likely knows another language. Learn not to be a dick before commenting next time 🙏
In YGO you have 8000 LP, and the most basic way you can win is by depleting your opponent's LP. When you introduce power creep to a game like YGO, which is natural and somewhat unavoidable, eventually you're going to hit a point where cards are so powerful that any end board becomes an OTK.
Once every board becomes an OTK, you have to balance the game around that. That means you need a copious amount of interruptions, or outright floodgates, to stop your opponent from making an end board to begin with, OR if they do make an end board you need some sort of instant board wipe to get rid of it. Thing is, eventually these interruptions, floodgates and board wipes are basically an OTK on their own. If your opponent can't even play cards, then they've already lost even if their LP are still full.
Right now YGO is just a battle of OTKs. Turn 1 puts up every interruption under the sun and OTKs their opponent by just stopping them from playing. Turn 2 uses hand trap floodgates and board wipes to OTK with beaters right after.
There is no more real back and forth in YGO. Every duel with current meta decks is realistically already decided when the first hand is drawn. It makes the game incredibly boring.
Me an my buddy have been playing a lot of for fun games, and he's been playing salad vs whatever I feel like. Cybverse decks really exemplify this problem, if I cannot completely stop him or kill him and give him a turn (after turn 0 ofc) I just die to update accesscode every time. Its a weird feeling of "oh can I play through 3-5 interruptions and either kill him or have enough to stop him from rubbing 2 monsters together? No? Then I lose on the spot.
Obviously this is a very specific situation, but it does feel like just the worse version of where the game is going as a whole.
in older formats like edison, hat etc, there are extremely few monsters with quick effects. cards like Light and Darkness Dragon, Stardust Dragon and a few others are extremely strong, but not unoutable. most of the on the opponents turn interaction comes in spells and traps. book of moon, mirror force, solemn judgment/warning, fiendish chain, etc... these cards exist on the field, and thus you can inherently play around them with cards like mystical space typhoon, heavy storm, giant trunade, night beam and more.
I really enjoy these slower back and forth slug out games. "combos" are actually what the word means. using a combination of cards to create a powerful push or defend against one. but in all its a different game.
modern yugioh cannot be compared to pre say... 2016. with some exceptions like windup or inzektor. I enjoy both. I think 2009-2011 is a sweetspot. where am I going with this? idk give us rotation and standard. I'll play both.
People have been saying this for years and it has never been true. I’ve heard it since 2014 at least.
I haven’t played since Brave DPE format but i kind of lowkey doubt it’s true now? Swordsoul still looks to have back and forth
@andleepfarooqui7874 the back and forth in sword soul is you make baronne chixiao with blackout set. you opponent either has the cards to play through that, or you win turn 3.
11:28 If you want a recent example of this, look no further than Buddyfight. What was once an interesting-if-simple back and forth pretty quickly escalated to every single deck can FTK or lock the opp out of the game. Creatures got bigger, so we needed more attack negates, so we got more "this card's attack cannot be negated", so we got more multi attackers, so we got more "that card cannot attack", so we got more multiattacks by superior calling, so we got "their entire board cannot attack" so we end with "I am attacking for lethal on the first turn of the game". And this is just with combat, negation and burn have similar escalations. Part of it was sped up by the game knowing it was going to get canned but honestly now playing Magic it's really, really sold me on rotation.
Cardfight also had(s) that issue. Resulted in 2 reboots for rehab series as a result. Rotation imo is a much better solution than having to do that... I love V series in terms of game play but it's all but dead because they rebooted to curb the power creep.
People complain about Rotation and change in YGO but never really tried it in some cases, or explored the different formats like Edison or GOAT. Watching the progression playoffs that MBT did is another good example too of semi Rotation
My response is Magic has its own issue you're ignoring, the same issue that arises for every card game. If not power creep, then Feature Bloat. How many keywords are their in Magic? How many are introduced with each set, knowing that they need new keywords to sell new cards. "Rotation can control the power level" except the least popular sets have always been the ones with the weakest cards, even ignoring how Standard in MTG was fucked sideways for years due to Eldraine fucking the format, then Kaldheim refucking it, oh and don't forget Kaladesh and Energy. Then of course we have companions which came in Ikoria and, again, utterly fucked the format and any argument of "Oh rotation solves the problem." Rotation doesn't solve shit, Magic can seem better until you're deep in it and realize it's totally garbage too, same for rotation. Fuck Pokemon's exactly the same, it may rotate but between Tagteams and Vmax and Gmax and V and 2 Prize, 3 Prize, extra bullshit that is inevitable power and feature creep because Pokemon saw when Advanced came out, what rotation did without power/feature creep, it signalled the biggest drop in Pokemon TCG's fiscal and player growth ever.
In fact, we know 100% what happens for a card game with rotation, that rotates and doesn't grow stronger in one way or another. It dies. Most people don't what a MonColle is, but it was Japan's biggest fucking trading card game for years, it was the biggest thing, inspired so much... and then the first rotation happened and it fucking died. And it died because they didn't present a reason to players to pick up new product and players universally, from the dawn of Card Games will not go "Yeah I'll buy cards that are functionally the same as what I had but are weaker."
There always ALWAYS needs to be something new. New Keyword, new card type, more power.
@@HavenKhaos YGO card text is designed in a way that keyword bloat can't really be a thing.
If PSCT is the solution to this, i. e. the fundamental game design that allows for creation of new cards that are interesting without eclipsing everything that came before, it might actually be preferrable to a system of very specific keywords analogous to MtG.
Though, how exactly is keyword bloat a problem at all?
At some point you _might_ face an opponent who plays cards which they need to explain to you in that moment but that's nowhere near as bad as evermore escalating powercreep.
@@xCorvus7x I am not referring to the amount of Keywords present on a card, but mechanical bloat, as in, bloating in the rules, I would recommend watching TTC's "The Commander Deck of Tomorrow, Today" to give a succinct example of exactly how fucked MTG has become mechanically. And even ignoring that, MTG still has power creep, it does. From Energy to Adventures to Companions to Mutate to Foretell, mechanics that completely dominate and infect even Eternal formats is ridiculous, and Rotation doesn't solve it because the period of 2016 (Kaladesh) to 2021 (Midnight Hunt) was 5 years of Standard which was total cancerous hell.
@@HavenKhaos Neither am I. Putting more keywords on a card would just be the kind of overtuning some people criticise about Tearlament (because all of the Tearlament cards do a lot).
I mean the invention of new game effects that would in MtG get new keywords, so you might end up playing against someone who uses cards the words on which you don't understand.
Since YGO card text is written in plain text (or rather, text that looks plain), all effects are composed of various keywords arranged according to semantic rules, so you can just use the existing terms to describe new effects and doing this in a way that doesn't result in more text on cards seems pretty feasible (while it is true that some of the cards we have today have much more text than older ones, this trend doesn't really correlate with powercreep; the wordiest cards in the game belong to decks that aren't top-tier).
As long as the semantic rules don't change, PSCT should be save from this kind of bloat; although, as said above, I don't find it too problematic to explain what my cards do to my opponent mid-game.
MtG still has powercreep? Well, I only mean to draw on it for comparison during discussions.
It is pretty wild when board breaker card efs are so insane that they would do nothing to any decks pre 2015 or so.
yeah, cause they dont special as much, or the effects are rather tame to nowdays or based on mostly the battle phase, and mostly no quickeffect monsters
Basically this. If Konami would just shift the balance of power in the game away from "disruption spam" special summon spam decks, the game would probably be a lot healthier.
Idk if Vanquish Soul is a step in the right direction or not in terms of card design (maybe ban/limit some floodgates first), but i honestly dont have an issue with decks like Runick Spright atm. Its really good, but i wouldnt call it unfair. The Fur Hire stuff though, idk what those players are thinking. It doesnt really seem to push any sorta game state imo. You'd be better off sitting on IP Masquerena or some shit so you can link off into a link 4 on the opponent's turn.
The biggest problem in YGO, in my opinion, is the fact that there are too many strong generic cards that are usable in most or all decks. Because of that you don't hit the actual problem cards in specific archetypes on the banlists. Instead, you hit the deck's consistency and keep the busted archetype's card legal so as to not mess up all the other decks using them. There needs to be more restrictions on what you can use strong cards with (e.g. requirements for summoning/use conditions).
As for rotation in YGO - we could make a tournament with the current banlist and rotation rules to test it out for fun.
I agree. I also think generic condition boss monsters was a mistake
It’s very easy in my opinion, every extra deck monster out of an archetype should have summoning conditions using only archetype intern monsters (not some bs like 2+ effect monsters). Also in a single turn it shouldn’t be allowed to play more than one archetype. And all one card combo starters need a permanent ban.
Konami usually alwayyyys ends up banning these overly generic boss like monsters like halq, spright elf etc, whereas cards like baronne and accesscode are not unfair and added more depth, interaction and sustainability for various decks especially the rogue ones, to be able to combat the meta decks and balance the game, the same for the staples,board breakers that they release from time to time they allow more diversity and give way to more decks, the game is not centered around just control or combo or aggro oriented decks thats what separates us from the ocg, there’s more emphasis on deck building, intricate side deck choices, ideas for old cards coming back like book of eclipse and book of moon returning for kashtira and those cards still work and hit other decks so ur not rlly forcing urself to play cards u play for the case of the strongest deck but ur also cautious of other decks so yea.
what was the point of archtypes again?
I really wanna thank you for consistently posting stream highlights
I love your content and the game but twitch is too much time consuming for me.
Having the content on youtube is great i can speed up the videos, watch it as parts etc.
Thank you again
I don't really play much of the actual card game anymore, TOSS was the last format I took seriously. Discussions about the state of the game, upcoming decks, and anything in that nature keep my love for the game alive though. Its weird, I like talking about Yugioh more than actually playing it (at least competitively).
Fr same here
Same here. I am always looking at updates and upcoming decks, and I'm creating somewhat creative, intentionally non-meta decks on EDOPro/DB, but I'm spending barely any time actually playing since the current state of the game just feels so toxic for the most part.
After TOSS ended was really when the game started going down the path of "Just draw the out"
The game became a problem either when one card starters became the norm rather than something that got autobanned or when Raigeki stopped being considered one of the most broken cards in the game.
raigeki still is broken
@@JA-ki3fh No competitive player uses raigeki, not when we have lightning storm, evenly, nibiru, etc.
@@kabutoclone2Raigeki has some tops this format and was a decent choice against spright back in POTE.
Raigeki not seeing play foes not translate to the game being a problem.
You don't expect every card from 20 years ago to be competitively viable today
@@yuseifudo6075I didn't say every card, did I? Don't be stupid.
Ask MBT to join the rotation series.
na he should join the suckoff series instead
Based
please join the rotation series
This
Well 2 weeks later I can tell you He did!!
The issue is that every combo deck that goes first has 8 negates on turn 1 you lose without even dueling.
The comunity can host rotation formats, we even have master duel to make it for everyone. When companies don't want to do certain changes, we can do it for them and test how it works. We can even create more old formats, create some tournaments and see how it develops.
But i think it's time to take some action instead of just pointing things we dislike and expect Konami to do something about it
I honestly love it when cards are decent going first, but amazing going second. The game has made going first so powerful and boring for so long and I miss when going second was a real option and not just drawing the out
Blind going second Sky Strikers is probably one of my absolute favorite decks. I run a pretty similar gameplan for my PUNK deck.
I'm not gonna lie, I can remember like 3 formats total where going first wasn't a huge advantage, and I've been playing this game for 20+ years (although I haven't played the past 4 or so).
@@SunshineJesse Oh certainly the game always had an advantage towards those who go first, but it was far less pronounced back then. you could actually use traps going second and games often lasted longer than a single turn, not to mention there were cards like Cydra that made going second easier, but those types of options just don't exist in modern yugioh and the game has gotten so fast that if you can't instantly delete your opponent's board, you just die
Yu-Gi-Oh is a good game to play at locals only if you stick to meta or at least competent decks. It's miserable to bring out fun decks (Vaylantz, for example) and see all your combos die to the 2-3 handtraps the opponent likely drew, or the going 2nd cards if you manage to build any kind of board. I don't want to stick to summoning out Baronne and Savage Dragon again and again, it's just miserable to play 90% of decks.
Idk, there's people at my locals who play legit garbage, and I have fun playing my 2017 Invoked Shaddoll deck against them outside of the swiss. I know I'm gonna face good decks in swiss, so I also take my better deck to locals, but there's always plenty of people playing slower stuff that are down for an unofficial game. You can play for fun at your OTS, locals are not the only way to play the game.
@@In.New.York.I.Milly.Rock. yeah you summed it up
Dunno man, Vaylantz is kinda sleeper good with the right pilot
Those handtraps stop ftk and loop (as evidenced by Farfa tourney) Rogues are collateral
Well, when you said fun, that is subjective. People find winning fun or playing decks that have a good chance of winning fun, so of course they would gravitate towards said decks. I get what you mean, but you can't tell people what to play and not to play, just gotta accept the fact that some decks just suck. I play some shit decks too but there's only so much you can do to get it up to speed to the current meta.
I think this meta just highlighted pretty much everything wrong with the game for over 3 years+ now:
-absolutely 0 interaction games
-insane cards
-"just draw the out lol"
-oppressive handtraps and board breakers
-the over-centralization of the extra deck
-throwing negates on literally everything
-the inability to have an actual discussion about the game unless a youtuber says something first
-the prices of cards consistently locking players out
-more casual-rogue players being phased out
To elaborate, a deck like shs is just dragon link 2.0; turbo as many negates as possible and just don't let your opponent play. Draw the out, or forfeit. The deck also has so many awesome synchros. Crazy how they're all just objectively worse than the generic option in baronne, so they'll never be played. If a deck can run baronne, it will make an appearance.
It's nearly impossible to make a comment about the game without 1 in 3 comments being some variant of "YuGiBoOmEr, JuSt GeT gOoD lOl". The focus of the game being on the top of the competive ladder has also shifted the design philosophy to cards that work in the meta, but destroy any potential at rogue-level competition.
Yugioh has a pretty obvious path to take:
-a massive banlist that pretty much undoes the meta from around pile-format or slightly before. Hit instant win cards like evenly that are just oppressive against anything that doesn't go right for a negate.
-errata a lot of the generic extra deck monsters or just ban them; konami, it's okay, not every deck needs access to a free omni on top of handtraps.
-make future cards have actual interaction; more destroy, bounce, banish, flip, etc. effects instead of just making everything negate.
-have some form of communication with the playerbase; I understand it's difficult to explain certain bans without outright saying "we want money"
-take up the ocg print policy; it's infuriating when tcg players say "yeah, but konami has an agressive reprint policy". If maxx c can be at under $10 at a single copy in the ocg (before its reprint) as one of the most meta warping cards in the game, there is no reason the tcg should have a card with 7 printings sitting at $30. Or good cards being massively short printed
I think the best way we could define healthy interaction is that either deck can win going first OR second using just their engine so long as they play correctly. Meaning the game is more skill/quality play oriented. That might not be the most fun in everyones mind but competitively speaking i think that should be the goalpost.
Wonderful video, this is definitely something we need to be brought up and have Konami more responsive to. The game pace of Yu-Gi-Oh has slowly been building up and eventually there's only so far you can go while still being fun.
How is the game faster than it was 6 years ago? Games against stuff like Lab or Runick last way way longer than it did against SPYRAL. Yes, SPYRAL is a worse deck than Labrynth or Runick but for its time, it still built a pseudo FTK board that won you the game in turn 1.
@@gorgoneuryale8748no one can is speaking about 6 years ago lmao
Mr4 is when the problem started to become unbearable by the most, mr4.5 didnt fix it and now the game is just a showdown between waifu archetypes
@@stylesheetra9411 lmao have you even been playing the game for that long? People have been saying "Go first and OTK on turn 3, nothing the other player can do except watch" since 2011.
Pace of current yugioh didn't get faster in years.
@@gorgoneuryale8748 key difference is that those deck could be hit by hand traps and disruptions and they didnt play on the opponent turn, and most important, strong deck were hit fast
teleDAD and pepe were broken and got hit by a e-banlist pretty fast
tear was extremely stronger that anything ever
same as spyral
same as firewall
Same as every kind of deck since mr4
Tear ruined Yugioh for me and I still find it hard to get back into the game. Not because of the actual deck but the horrendous discourse around it with people like MBT calling people that don't enjoy the deck a neanderthal and stuff. And considering that Yu-Gi-Oh is a community driven game, being in that community became horrible
Really forgetting the fact that many casuals would treat you like the devil if you dared play tear. Otherwise, agreed.
Konami could have another master rule with an alternative format. It could even have its own banlist.
They could easily test it out on Master Duel and that avoids any complaints from anyone that wants to continue just playing Advanced format because it's an option.
With Magic the Gathering, like 12 years ago, Wizards of the Coast had an article about the problems with power creep and how to deal with it. They said creating cards on the same power level and cards that keep other strategies honest (in an interactive and fun way) was the solution. It doesn't have to be all or nothing like it is now.
no diving the game up just makes it more confusing. just limit most of new broken cards and start releasing balanced +1 cards or continous great effects
Great talk! I'm usually on the casual side of yugioh, but I always end up looking at how competitive is going. I don't know the last time I saw this many people agreeing that "the game format right now is not okay". I think we're not that far from the powercreep completely breaking the game.
23:00 i hate tear but i get mbt point and i just wish there were more decks had heathly answers to everything
The problem with Tear is that its answers aren’t exactly “healthy” either. The cards themselves just do way too much. Every monster is an extender, mills, and fuses (or in the case of Reino, sends something that fuses). And every spell/trap has a strong effect on field, while also triggering your monsters on resolution, AND they have a bonus search effect in the grave! It’s just not balanced at all.
@@AtlasV- in the video they talk about how if there were more decks like tear then it wouldn't be tear 0. The deck had a anser to everything and i think that was healthy
The arms race that is Yu-Gi-Oh is quite interesting to watch as someone who likes the game but only plays master duel. If I were a professional player or content creator for the game I would work on a plan b in case the game implodes in the future... I don't have too much faith in Konami to be honest.
The Plan B for TCG players is Master Duel.
The actual plan B is MTG, but even that looks unstable.
@@f1r3hunt3rz5 Given how Coder and Farfa reacted to the idea of rotation on MBT's Magical Hats mini show, I doubt it was every the plan. Regardless it will take few years to if the current problems in Standard is going to remain or not when it comes to MTG. As Sets are planned out and built years out,
@@Asmodean1111modern, draft, commander, etc.
You know what would be cool content for you to make, Josh? It’ll be a lot of work but it would be really cool to see: you design 3-5 brand new archetypes and do a tournament with the archetypes you created. You’d have to put some specific rules into place of course but I think it would amazing content to watch and experience.
Blame Konami for putting profit over balance. Printing more and more broken cards to respond to what is broken now as a banaid.
New cards are so broken that when they come out on MD they are already limited.
@@gambitgambles same in duel links, but then again, even petingcessoeur came limited. Oof.
They are a business after all. It's about growth and making money.
@@friskydrinklunkybank1108 you can make a game that is both profitable and not a clusterfuck nightmare to balance.
@TRippersigs22 thing is the people still buy the cards so they dont care as much as they should.
I agree on pretty much every point.
Card design is key, and the idea of making in-engine cards that become better on going second is a really good idea and i also makes going second interesting because it balances the difference of "strength" between going 1st and 2nd
Great video. One thing missing from your critique is that there is no vehicle for us to provide feedback to konami regarding the tcg (short of emailing them). I'm not sure how Konami is supposed to "listen to the community" when there is no system in place to enable them to do so....
I honestly think that POTE format prior to DABL and Mavens was the most recent excellent format. When Josh was talking about how an influx of decks that power-creep everything but interact with each other in a healthy manner could be a solution to the game's current issues, well, that's what happened with POTE. Tear, Spright, Mathmech, Rikka, etc. were all super viable, super enjoyable decks that all did different things and weren't degenerate. Then Bystials, crazy Tear support, and the Ishizu cards hit...
i mean i liked ishizu tear and it was an exciting time, but i agree, POTE format was a peak format. it was a lot of fun, tear wasn’t truly the best deck nor was spright, and mathmech always had a place in the format. the one problem was mystic mine.
dabl format was fun too though, but it was literally 2 weeks long.
I still want to know what kind of crack they were on when they made the Ishizu’s.
“Oh, the Graveyard is basically a second hand? Well, here’s 4 cards that completely invalidate the Graveyard”
Add in how they made Tear - which was something of a High Roll deck if you didn’t Mill well - ultra consistent to creating Tear 0, someone had to be on something when those were greenlit…
As someone who didn't play Tear format but has dabbled in lots of card games, Tear sounds like it should've been the new baseline for card design. Bring everything to that level so that you have in-engine ways to address weaknesses but create intentional design so you can't prepare for everything. The game then relies on a good pilot who understands the decks weaknesses and compensates with either certain lines of play or deckbuilding choices.
While this is a common sentiment, it is a horribly misguided one. If Tear became the new baseline, the game dies in 2 years tops. Even setting aside that yorue basically rebooting the game by taking every other deck to have ever existed, and throwing it in the trash (which alone would be enough to kill the game), it fundamentally misunderstands what the core audience of YGO is.
YGO is primarily aimed at a (relatively) casual audience. Those players do not want decks that are as complex, and as a result exhausting, as Tear is. Because at that point, even locals become a chore. If I wanted a complex and exhausting game as my hobby, Id personally pick up fighting games again. No, the primary audience wants primarily to have variety of decks you can choose, in aesthetic, gameplay *and difficulty*. Swordsoul is fairly linear, and it was popular. People want a game where you can choose to have as much, and as little, effort you need.
Essentially what you want is to fundamentally change the entire game, and make it unpalable to the 99% for the 1%.
@DarkKnight179 Thank you for understanding the problem with this take. HOW in the ever-loving mother of fuck do you alter the power level of hundreds of archetypes to appease the existence of one? It's complete lunacy.
@@DarkKnight179 Almost every deck in the game is already in the trash so nothing would be different. Decks die everytime powercreep happens. Also, the core audience of the game is not relatively casual. We have some of the largest irl competitive events of any card game. If you are arguing that the game should be really simple and easy for anyone to win, I don't think that's healthy for the game since it will get boring very fast. Look at how popular Edison format is. It is one of the most complex and difficult formats in the game's history and is extremely popular
@@yuseifido5706 Almost every, and every, are two different things. And decks can come back. Plus yknow, we have eternal staples like Strikers, like SwoSo, even to some degree like BA that keep coming back, and the community LIKES that. Not to mention, at locals you dont need the top meta deck.
No, the core audience is relatively casual. Youre both confusing "going to tournaments" as being the opposite of casual (Do you not know a bunch of people who go to a YCS just to have fun, and usually drop out in round 6 or 7?), and assuming that having bit competitive events is the same as being all competitive.
The point is that those complex situations shouldnt be forced on you. People want to play simple decks sometimes. Making every deck like Tear basically removes that possibility. Thereby killing the game.
been playing ygo since kin teledad and quit after zodiac came back into prank kids i can say, ishizu tearlament has been the best format. i really enjoyed the deck and it requires so much skill. kashtira and dino rabbit been the same
I cant agree on "Tearlaments being good Yugioh"
Being able to play around virtually anything is not good and all a Tearlament mirror boils down to is who mills the better cards. Once there is no counterplay .....
Correct me if I'm wrong. Wouldn't rotation make Yugioh even MORE expensive than it already is?
the price of most cards wouldn't change much but it would absolutely create a huge rift between casual and competitive players.
Depends if you can use the cards you already own and how they would sell the products
powercreep is forced rotation you know lol, and its even worse, its make your card worthless as they get powercrept, while rotation usually decrease the value by a bit but not much since you can still play your old cards in eternal formats
@@ganyumaindayone1112 There are plenty of examples of cards being worth a significant amount years past their due rotation date. It's really just the engine cards, which tend to be the cheap side of things anyways with notable exceptions, that at all are affected.
Plus, legacy formats? Konami can't even support one alternate format all too well, and everything new they tried outside of the main current format has been a flop. I think rotation is poor in concept, but trying to realistically apply it today is also never happening.
@@defectivesickle5643 yu gi oh is too far gone to have any rotation or format anyway, thats why i just play some edison with friends and the old video games, aint touching that glorified solitaire game that is modern yu gi oh, i'll stick to mtg for competitive tcgs
I FUCKING LOVE IT when y'all talk about Tear format. "Floodgates are unhealthy but Tear format was the best format. When you got hit with *insert floodgate* you could just *insert floodgate* and wait it out." """"""Healthy interaction"""""
He said that I was gonna put his ass on a blast for being hypocritical and hell yeah I'm gonna do that but just on one thing.
He said that Ariseheart is a monster that nullifies 60% of the game and that's unhealthy and I agree with that but, then he proceeds to say that Tear was a better designed deck and that deck nullifies 95% of the game man.
I don't care how skillful or involved the mirror is, You don't have to be a genius to see that this is not good for the game and no, the solution is not creating more archetypes that nullify 95% of the game, that's a really bad solution.
When I drew both Ghoti Snopios and Zep going second I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
I am a firm believer in a full reset but in terms of a massive limited/ simi limited list to water down decks. Similar to how Edison felt before it was solved. every deck that players were testing was just a watered down variant.
With this sort of route it would be easier to introduce new fair archetypes. Also narrow down true problematic cards for future bans.
The problem of having more decks with the same power level of tear is......how? How you make an archetype so strong and adaptable to compete to full power tear ishizu. A deck that have destroyed Spright....you have to create an archetype of monsters that can special summons themselves with quick effect from the hand and once summoned they can special summon an other one from the deck and every one of the them have a quick effect that can make them synchro or xyz an archetypical monster. And they have to summon a synchro 8, that on summon add a card of the archetype to the hand and have a quick effect to banish without targeting, cards from the opponent field to the number of archetypical cards you control. That's the only way I can think of an archetype strong as tearalaments ishizu.....but it would be a disaster.
This would be called "addiction"
The problem is how its addicting because it resembles gambling. Thankfully I enjoyed my time until I didnt and replaced yugioh with another addiction simply because I'm major depresso espresso... everyday nowadays i spend it wondering why I'm still alive...
It is, I Quit the game a year ago and focused in my major adición to aggressive rollerblading, but a couple months ago I had a relapse and started building a PK and Hero decks, I feel like I am wasteing my time and money
@@uanbaggins I've had those moments. If you can manage it and not let it become unhealthy then you should be alright. It is ok to enjoy what you love though
@@jordanyoung8703 you are probably right, but somehow I feel I am doing something illegal 😅, I don’t feel like that when I buy skates, wheels, skate parts, knee pads, etc.
@@uanbaggins That's most likely because you banned Yugioh in your mind and made it illegal to go back to. It's an understandable thing, you made it off limits but your appreciation for it brings you back.
I absolutely love your discussion style videos. I can watch and be entertained or I can throw my phone in my pocket while working and get the same quality just listening.
Ur absolutely right I’m not an tear fan, didn’t liked the tear format or playing tear. But Tear itself wasn’t even the biggest problem in tear format. The ishizu shuffler’s were because they killed every deck the used the grave what basically is most decks in general.
Thats not what killed graveyard decks. The prevalence of shifter as a way to counter Tear was. Which is the fault of Tear. The Ishizus themselves actually dont stop GY decks, we saw that in MD who released the Ishizus first, and the duelist cup with Ishizus legal was like 80+% graveyard decks.
@@DarkKnight179 That’s so not true shifter is ass because u need to hard draw it and it is dead as soon something is in the grave. There is simply not a reliable way to get that card. Of course shifter is a stupid card that should exist but I can still live with losing the 20 - 30% games where they have it and that’s not even counting that u can counter it with called by. I rarely lost a game to shifter in MD but way more to ishizu shufflers. Naturally they didn’t do much at the start because people first needed some time to figure out way to bring them constantly in the grave to obuse them. Sure tear did help them a lot because they allways get them in the grave but without the shuffler’s tear didn’t do that much. Realistically they would have what a spacial summon negate, a shuffle and there traps at best they also could have an pop from the field. That’s still good but other decks can also do similar amounts of interruptions.
Konami needs to limit the amount of special summons a player can do per turn.
That's a terrible idea, that would just make decks like Labrynth and Eldlich too powerful
@@mechaliz495 perhaps but there's a lot of back row removal in the game, so you can focus your deck building on your strategy and back row removal cards if necessary and you don't have to worry that much on your opponent summon vomiting while taking forever to complete their turn and having the same end board as everyone else. However the amount of special summoning per turn is open for discussion. Or maybe increase the amount of lifepoints each player has so that they can survive an onslaught of 3000 atk or more monsters with multiple negates.
@@mechaliz495 That's what the limited list is for.
One comment i saw in the chat was "Konami doesn't make money unless they powercreep old cards"
Who said anything about buying new cards? Formats like Pauper in MTG are extremely popular for budget players since its restricted to commons only and taps into a plethora of old, cheap cards that are never going to be reprinted for standard format. Yugioh attempted a similar format to this, but they never really established a banlist and the community hasn't created one for it thus far either, so its not really seeing play.
And of course you also have commander, which to my knowledge doesn't have set rotation and therefore has a wide assortment of strategies to work with across the entirety of Magic's history (and the big thing is that since its not a 1v1 format, its incredibly unsolved).
Yes I was saying that all the time during the tear format, we need more decks like tearlaments. Flexible, consistent and adaptable with in archytipe ways to unswer any threat(*cough cough* skystriker) while not relying on stopping your opponent from being able to play. Decks nowadays are just to afraid to lose if they let the opposing deck do anything they want
13:05 we are at that point, we have been at that point for a while, its just more noticeable now due to power creep, 20 years ago was like, do you have the raigeki to out my monster(s), yes no, let go to game 2, now is do you have nibiru before i lock us into level 2, yes no, can you do anything after my board of negates then, yes, no, lets go to game 2, the thing is, yes, the archetypes are just one uping each other instead of being reworked, its basically a singularity and next year we are getting more support that caters to this, just like with Superheavy samurais and probably battlin boxers and volcanic too in a few months
Just, no... scooping was never so fast back then...
The answer IMO is take every easily summonable omni-negate and lead them behind the shed and put them down, and whack Appo while you're at it. Being able to go into an early negate to insulate your combo from interaction is just a step too far and leads to horribly unfun meta's.
I think Savage dragon should be the ceiling for an omni negate. You need to make link plays and THEN summon Savage dragon AND THEN you have to target one of those links in grave, and equip it. Not only does this require actual set -up but you can interact with it in a ton of hand traps that see a bunch of play. Compare this to summoning Barrone, which for a deck like Swordsoul is simply activating Longyuan which doesn't really lose against any handtraps other than Kelbek, the Adventure engine which is just a free omni for a ton of decks, or the 5th summon Appo's (which are super fun)
This would also make a lot of "the outs" to combo decks unnecessary to have in the game, and then we could ban them.
I like conditional negate cards like Dis Pater and Luluwalillith over omnis. It's a fairer interaction
The main problem has been so many Omni-negate being the extra deck, and having nothing other the levels or different names to get to them. Like Savage Dragon is good on the amount of steps it takes, but if it needed a dark dragon or something like that would have been fine. Baron should have required a wind monster or turner, ect. Appo is just a major problem with how easy it's to mass summon in today era of Yugioh.
@@Asmodean1111 I think Appo is ok. The amount of times I've fired her once before someone just outs her is uncountable.
Josh, powercreep in card games is not a natural phenomenon. We're talking about games, human creations, objects of culture, and there's no powercreep in Uno or 6 nimmt.
Powercreep is a consequence of a certain marketing strategy, which is to get players to buy new cards by appealing to their competition with each other.
New cards could be interesting for at least two other reasons: new game mechanics and aesthetics, and the former still appeals to competitiveness to some extent as people try to be the first to find out how to use new mechanics, or cards for that matter, to their advantage.
Cards don't need to be absurdly strong to potentially give you an edge, it might just be the last missing piece falling into place (which raises the question to what extent Konami simulates the impact of new cards).
While it might be difficult to create new archetypes of the same power level as those before, Konami would still sell cards if the new ones didn't eclipse everything up to that point; less cards, may be, but far from none.
You played me at that California regional during zoo format on the last round
Master duel player: in under a year we watched graverkeeper & Umi go from top 15 to: Ishizu, punk, vern, naturia; vomiting out 7/8 of the top sychro cards in the game through 3 negotiations then omi negating your entire hand turn 0. Now we have full power tearlaments in silver 4. Everything before branded fusion(the BS that started it all) is completely unplayable. Never thought I’d miss Drytron & Eldich lololol
no
I want someone to explain to me what it means to "design decks on the same powerlevel as Tear". Tear wasn't just a "strong deck", it was a deck that needed to be responded to in a very specific way. Every single card in Tearlament isn't just overtuned, they explode if the opponent so much as touches them in any manner and makes things worse for you. A deck that punishes you for responding to it is not fun to play against.
Other decks that compete with Tear would have to be built around the existence of Tear, meaning they're extremely limited in terms of gameplay design. The only way around that is something like Kashtira that just puts a Macro on the board instead of jumping through the hoops of actually dealing with the absurdly explosive Tear cards.
It means making decks that are just as explosive as Tears. The only reason Tears needed such incredibly strict counters was because it was the only way a different deck could keep up without having Tear's absurd recursion or effective absence of chokepoints. But that doesn't mean Macro has to remain the only way to beat Tear, as shown in Tear mirrors or Tear vs Spright.
Powercreep is never going away and and it's effectively impossible to force duels to take more turns without stall tactics, so the best solution is probably to embrace the speed and resource loop of Tear. Give up on making the game slower or countering unbreakable boards with duel-deciding one-offs, and instead have both sides playing equally fast decks that can consistently play on each other's turns, always interacting and baiting and aiming to end on the most advantageous board, never just sitting in wait while one guy combos off for 15 minutes.
It's not "on the same power level", Tear's powerlevel was clearly too high and unsustainable in long term, but "in similar manner (design wise)". Ishtear doesn't care whether it goes first or second, it can kickstart it's plays on turn 1 regardless and sidestep whatever you were going to throw at it. It has a wide variety of tools to deal with pretty much everything and strong resource loop to back it up. Come to think of it, Ishtear is quintessential yugioh control deck.
What people generally want is to get rid of this hard go first/go second dichotomy and for new decks to be focused more on resource grind rather than setting up floodgates or trying to bring in an extensive amount of negates as quickly as possible.
I really have to disagree on Havnis being good card design, I don't think a card that reads "Have full access on your engine turn 0 because your opponent activated a card effect on their turn" was healthy for the game, in fact it was down right toxic. I also don't think playing "let's see who mills the most shufflers" is nearly as skill intensive as people like to pretend it was.
The idea that a turn 0 is even considered a balanced thing is horrid. The last time I've seen this level of mass psychosis was during zoodiac format.
@@dhantefranklin336 I know, if you lose the coinflip you should simply lose the game.
@@gatocochino5594 Do you really think it's fair to full combo before your opponent plays simply because they activated an effect? Do you really think getting to Summon Winda because your opponent had the audacity to try to play the game is healthy?
The amount of cope and cap from tear players is absurd.
@@hughjass2640 I'm agreeing with you! If you're going second you should not even get a chance to play the game.
Just watched a guy play with himself for 10 minutes and end on 3 negates and 6 cards in hand with punk. Most boring card game on the planet
Healthy? Let's talk about why you have to play 72 hours straight on master duel to qualify for worlds! This is the most unhealthy way possible
51 minutes video commented After 1 minute when in the title there Is "healty discussion" and u somehow connect Yu-Gi-Oh=healty, btw After 6 minutes he says that the 72 hours event was unhealty
sir please finish the video
Watch the actual video before spitting verbal diahrea maybe?
Tbh I don't think you can support Tear, but hate on Circular. You're saying that decks have to be at similar power levels for the game to be more fair, but you didn't complain that Tear can make Bagooska. Tears fusion mechanic basically cheats just like how Circulars cost is also cheating basically.
Also if a deck like Tear can play through several interruptions/beats out every other deck, it basically is a Floodgate deck at that point. You also say you don't like having to side against too many decks, that's exactly what you would have to do if all decks were at the same broken power level as Tear
Any deck capable of putting two level 4 monsters on the board can make bagooska, is that a problem with deck design or is bagooska the problem here.
@@nxiss It's more like, on top of everything Tear can also make Bagooska/Dweller/Elf and that's just not ok. Tearlament should've at-least had a fusion lock tied to it, it would've prevented a lot of the issues IMO. It's not like the lock would've done much, they have in archetype outs to everything, and this would've made Tear meta a lot more interesting.
@@nxissIt's true that Bagooska is generic rank 4. But in Mathmech case for example, the players don't play Bagooska at all. Mathmech monsters have effect that if they're special summoned the player cannot special summon monsters from extra deck except cyberse monsters.
That kind of restriction doesn't apply to Tear at all. Tear player can still xyz synchro link etc any kind of monsters from their extra deck. It seems like for me Tear is just Branded but without restriction.
@NXISS bagooska is the problem, but it in a deck like Tear makes an already amazing deck more polarizing.
I'd be interested in rotation as a second format but supported with every main set, then proceeding to exclusively print things way lower power level than current format. Basically saying "we're stopping power creep, you can still play current YGO but it's not going to evolve very quickly" and secretly making the rotation format the actually premier format if it does well or going back to normal power creep if it never catches on.
I still haven't seen a good argument against rotation outside of "but it's new so we don't like it", so slowly introducing it makes more sense.
Konami can't just flip a switch and make Yugioh rotate now. That's not what the past 25 years of a fanbase was built on.
Hell, rotation is also one of the primary reasons Paper Standard MTG is dying once WOTC removed the incentive to play it.
#BattlePhaseMatters
What if we increase the LP to much higher than the current 8000 LP like 16000LP or even more 80000LP (remember that we had 2k LP in first anime season)?? I know it sounds stupid but at least it's much easier approach to try out for now to increase the games' length a bit longer for like 2-3 turns... Then we will deal with broken negate cards later, since now we at least have some tradeoffs between Huge ATK monster VS 3k Monster with just Negations. Just think about why 2k-4k LP is fine and balance in Yugioh Anime Series back then and also Burn-First-Turn-Kill also got partially mitigated.
Tear does everything. How is that good design? It is overloaded with effects, and every card is an extender along with its normal effects. And then for some reason, it also has ZERO locks, so it can run whatever the fuck generic card it wants, and so can do even more. Why should a deck have an answer to literally everything? That is not a well designed archetype, and I gotta wholeheartedly disagree.
Best comment, but Komoney fan boys will tell you tear is the best thing happened since sliced bread. Muh Skillfulness
If you watched the top cuts in tear format you can point to an involved play (required good decision making and foresight) that won or lost the game in each match except for the ones where one player bricked.
Teat can play through anything but not everything all at once so you had to layer your interactions in such a way that stops tear. For example tear can play through a bystial/shuffler but not 3 in 1 turn.
Jesse playing through 4 turns of dweller and managing to climb back up to a scenario where hani better have ttt is a sign of a truly skillful format.
You're missing the entire point. In a Tear mirror, it's cool that both decks have answers to everything because it creates good back and forth. Does it powercreep other decks? Absolutely, but that's why they need to print more archetypes that act like it.
Other decks have just one gameplan and lose to specific outs. This is what enables uninteractive games.
My main problem with the deck is that EVERYTHING floats, that invalidates so many types of board wipes without even having to lift a finger. If only the main deck monsters had floating effects, or if the floating effects on the backrow cards required them to not be on the field it would probably be fine. Tri-Brigade was annoying for similar reasons, but to nowhere near this scale, and it that was specifically designed AS a splash archetype(both with Branded/Albaz cards and with Tri-Beasts as a whole). The fact that a card as powerful as Raigeki(sometimes used to help answer Spright) does NOTHING to this deck is at all is nuts already, it didn't need to recycle card advantage off every Duster and Lightning Storm as well.
@@nh6574 how is not having counters, only checks, to an archetype a good thing? That gets stuff banned in every other gaming formate, to the point that even Pokemon invented a tier just to keep them from torpedoing the other, actually fun playstyles (Ubers). Why is Yugioh the only exception to this, where something being so overtuned and persistent means everything else has to be that annoying and redundant?
I think yesterday's Europe's semifinals with that Jessica tranny winning solely with Harpie's Feather Duster explains best the complexity of Yugioh. Konami tried making the game super diverse and fun where any deck could land you a victory if you play it properly, but then a single card can ruin your perfect plan and everything crumbles. Ain't nobody reading walls of text, paying hundreds of dollars for a single deck, just for some rando to defeat you through RNG. No disrespect to Jessica, but a single 2002 card winning it all makes no sense.
Regarding limiting the special summons per turn, it is a great idea. The bigger issue that I've heard is "well if you like resource limits, go play magic". So I guess it's more identity and (personally) the player base WANTING to be over the top with bordering abusive plays.
It's a burnout feeling at some point for everyone.
100% agree with that
Pllleeeeeeeaaaase can we stop bringing up rotation without also acknowledging that it would be its own separate format. Every single argument against fails to acknowledge that you retain the option to play yugioh EXACTLY as it is now in addition to a rotating, less powerful but still very modern game.
To be fair, that is a _type_ of rotation.
It is very common for pro-rotation people to advocate forcing rotation on players.
Supporting some older archetypes with the intention of making them function as engines that can fill certain deckbuilding niches while still maintaining the thematic gimmick for said archetype. Also literally just konami figuring out a new format that compensates for or solves the issues of advanced format for good
this im having the time of my life playing volcanics and i allways loved them. My fav deck ever and im beyond happy for the support i can go to locals and play
i love the idea of in-archetype equivalents to non-engone staples. and in-archetype cards specifically made to go second. off topic but imagine a Shifter errata like "banish the opponent's NEXT card that goes to gy", anti spell having something like "the opponent may discard a spell to destroy this card". Floodgates that let the opponent still make interesting choices without being completely locked out of the game. "*What* do I surrender to shifter and fragrance", idk it sounds nice
My issue with Tear was partly "it's so powerful you had to play it to compete" but also "it's so powerful it completely invalidates 99% of the cards in the game". What is the point of an eternal game with no rotation if the latest product punishes anyone who doesn't keep up. That's Bushiroad bs design.
47:30 idk if this was mentioned but F.A.'s link does this very thing
Problem with yugioh is that without floodgates its really hard to not havr a tier 0 format. Because their is no mana system the deck that generates the most advantage will generally be the best deck. How other decks compete is through floodgates. In other games the restrictions on the ammount of inputs you have in a turn makes it so you have different styles of decks, yugioh doesnt have that.
mbt doing good job at addressing the problem. but aint no way, tearlament is a healthy deck. the same "draw the out" argument is also apply to tearlament. i mill the out.
i think we already have so many mill deck and they cannot even compare to tearlament. because mill deck are balanced because their card are limited on card good at milling and card that good at being milled. but a lot of tearlament cards is like a crazy combination of that grass look greener and orcust harp horror. also tearlament end board is just stupid, it have interuption in both monster and backrow, and even if you clear it in conventional way, the backrow generate more advantage and the monster just revive themself anyway. and if you think thats not enough, you can just play after your turn because it turns out there are tearlament card that is a combo starter and also handtrap.
I feel like I’ve had more fun when the the in engine interaction is back and forth, take multiple draw phases and go boss to boss.
Do Yu-gi-oh need a set rotation : yes, but as you stated, a lot of people might quit because of it. So maybe what Konami should do is focus on alternate formats to test the waters : one being a set rotation format
about cards being useless depending on going first or second, what about if you could side before the first game when turnorder is decided?
The game died for me when opponents started to summon multiple monsters on my own turn, the game became an absolut mess, i will play with my friend for fun, but i will never ever buy cards again
Dogmatika and Mekk Knight are another example for decks which can go first and second
What do you do going first with Mekk Knights?
@@Prateek_Dalal you can combo with iblee or girsu. You can find the combos online. You use world legacy cards and all of them are seachable.
I want a new master rule : the player going second draws 3 cards on their first turn
Tbh that still may not be enough of a comeback mechanic with how bad powercreep has gotten.
I'd be happy if going second you would just get your "draw" immediately, open 6 and don't draw your first turn. Would give you a better chance to open hand traps or to see immediately if you drew "The Out" so you wouldn't have to wait 10 minutes for you opponent to combo to see if you can actually play or not.
They can just rip every card out of your hand on turn 1, draw 3 won't make a difference other then making you more likely to draw the out.
Scrap wyvern ist gut für First, aber bei going second kannst du gegnerische Karten poppen. Genauso wie beyond the pendulum. Es sind keine summon Effekte , also kann man darum spielen, ist aber trotzdem gut. Ein gutes Beispiel ist auch mikanko arabesque, dass man gegnerische Monster bouncen kann und nicht nur die eigenen 🤷♂️
So. Viele. Deutschfehler.
@@daedalus5253 was laberst du?
@@BenediktWernicke Summon-Effekte
darum herum
, womit man
Auf den Rest mag ich nicht eingehen, da es schon spät ist.
@@daedalus5253 ok mister deutsch nazi
the way yugioh could be better ?
1-Stop the 1 format deck: this is stupid and completely unheakty for the game.
2-Errata the non-hopt banned cards.
3-Print better support for rogue decks and low tier decks.
4-CREATE A GOOD YUGIOH GAME WITH THE ACTUAL TCG AND OCG BANLIST. STOP THE MASTER DUEL CRAP. WITH ONLINE PAYING. With tournement online, prices for the winner, second and third place
The fact that Konami dont know how please the players and make money at the same time is unbelievable. They have everything to please all king of yugioh players but they only focus about money.
I think one of the best things about yugioh is that there isn't set release date determined 'seasons', as long as it's not on the ban list, cards from day 1 can be used. But, that's also the worst thing about yugioh - they just simply can't balance the game at this point, there is zero possibility... which leads to the only other option which is unreasonable power creep to not be stagnant. It's hard to see a way they can get out of the hole they are digging.
I feel like the major shift in the game for me which led to me not enjoying it so much was around 2017 with zoo format. I love combo decks but really don't like current yugioh and I realised it's because I liked the challenge of making my deck do more than the current standard, and figuring out the different 3 or 4 or even 5 card combos that could lead to it, or how to put together an otk in a deck that usually couldn't do it. But since 2017 I think that pretty much every deck has been able to do a play that's enough to win the game with 1 or 2 cards. The excepts are a few decks like pendulum magician with the various ftks, danger ftk and those weren't any better for the game.
I remember joking with someone around zoo format that where could the power creep go next, they'd have to make everything be a hand trap extender floater. Fast forward a few years and we've got bystials and havnis.
I know this is a month late but you got a subscribe from me, your idea on a multi situational card for first or second is a really good direction and i think they qre top toeing in that direction in their own way
I think a rotation format would be a way better way of introducing rotation rather than making rotation overwrite the current format.
Yes, there's no one saying the no rotation format ygo has right now should go away, like how MTG has Legacy/Vintage formats where all the cards ever printed are legal. and for those naysayers who say " what about my DM deck?! Sure most of the time I lose, but it's unique to pick-up an old archetype to a tourney. and what about the staple cards rotating out?!", they can just reprint the cards so that they can be in rotation. then we solved 2 problems at once. staple reprints, and you can still use your old cards if they reprint them, and the eternal format is still there if you still want no rotation. what this game really needs at the moment is new blood, and the need to lower the barrier to entry is essential to the survival of this game.
I think the concept of tear is fine and unique but as you said where there's nothing that can compete with it is the issue and also I think it would of still been fine but then the izhizu stuff came in when we both have to mill now that where it went very wrong
Very good and insightful video.
I think MBT just has to face the truth that "ignorance is bliss" regarding the Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Game.
Why we don't get reasoning behind banlist changes even though OCG tends to get them? Because Konami would have to give up their whole Spiel, exposing that the banlist is mainly utilized to promote product, and promote product only. Also, the actual reasons given would be pretty redundant, you don't need to hear "this card is broken" for the dozenth time, it gets quite self-explanatory at some point.
Why is Konami not transparent with their playerbase? Because said playerbase has misbehaved multiple times ('Ban Firewall'-Facebook-fiasco, asking employees via their private socials 'when the banlist comes out' for decades, etc. etc.)
I believe the first RUclipsr to have mentioned the idea of a 'Cold War of Powercreep' (i.e. print strong card, print even stronger card), all these years ago, was Farfa who made an analogy to "hitting Equilibrium."
"Don't you think that at some point cards can't possibly become any better and we have hit the peak of powercreep?"
Moving forward, I would like to give my approach, and answer: "The Yu-Gi-Oh! Card Game has already hit the point of Equilibrium a very long time ago."
I know this community likes to meme about this card a lot recently (due to Joshua's distaste for it...rightfully! lol), but Mathmech Circular being able to build up 3 Negates with a Hand and field-rip on top of that, while being a single card, should be a dead giveaway that we have hit a point where single cards can't possibly do even more by themselves. Funnily enough, due to his own 'I unban all these cards'-series, MBT himself should be pretty aware about the fact that many older archetypes would still be able to compete if they were full power (Nekroz, True Draco, Zoodiac, etc.), but allowing these type of decks to stay around, simply doesn't promote product.
I think the majority of the playerbase has to learn that even though Konami is a family-oriented company, it's a company first and foremost.
Chaos Angel is toxic in the way that many decks have no way to out it.
actually orcust salaman striker format also great one
except danger thunder
I hated tear because it could decide at will to just play a full turn on ur turn.
the most annoying but not fundamentally problematic aspect of power creep is how turns get massively extended even when there's so few of them. sure games last 3 turns tops but each turn has like 6 searches and link climbing and whatever. at least magical scientist had the decency to just pull out a purple gun and shoot you
The out for tower was utopia lightning
Few things for starters the LP when the game was 1st created average summon able monster was 1200-1500 with a few higher exceptions and special summoning was scarce. In modern Yu-Gi-Oh you can easily bring out 3-5 +3k beatsticks in a single turn obviously this is a core mechanics that needs adjusted. A bare minimum it's up'd to 24k LP to be somewhat viable. On the discussion of special summoning should be more restrictive. A rule change to a max of 3 special summons per turn and if you summon 3 you cannot summon monsters till your next turn really taxing combo decks. Negates,Omni negates,and big boss monsters completely unaffected by card effects is pretty toxic personally I'd love to see them all banned same goes with handtraps, but in handtraps defense they exhist because of the overall toxic gameplay. If the other cards that got hurt then drop handtraps to 1 copy allowed to be played. Another issue is lazy OP splashable monsters that have little cost they need to be made more restrictive or banned. Finally cards that allow you to play during your opponent turn and turn their turn as in additional resource obviously gotta go. That's only a few things I can think of the top of my head. Oh right they should make older decks badly needed support so they can contend with the top meta.
As a yugi player for 10 years now, i start to be really borred of powercreep
even tier 0 decks become unplayables or rogue decks, after 6 months when konami release a new meta deck or a new banlist who is "money oriented" rather than "meta oriented"
i really feel that we need to pay TON of money and spend ton of my TIME in deck building and optimization, to be able to play for a very very SHORT time, until we need to do it ALL over again just because konami decided it...
it's a waste of money and time but in addition it also hurt a lot… Because you see your favorite decks become so bad and fall from Tier 0/1 to tier 99. It's even worst when you see Konami release cards who steal gameplay mechanics of old meta decks. Release horus instead of releasing some support cards for orcust is an insult for every orcust players. In the same way , limit tearlaments while they are OBLITERED by snake-eye / fire king is also a joke and definitely money oriented. Limit ishizu cards but not Bystial is a non-sense. Ban Block dragon for his recycle power but let Labyrinth loop and recycle for years during the stanby phase is also disgusting.
Old meta deck or meta cards feared of everyone in the past like adamancipator / ABC / Spyral / Dragoon or even DPE are now either completely unplayable, either bad, either bricky , cards of those deck are still banned while even at full power they would do nothing against snake eye / fire king.
TL;DR : Yugioh in 2024 is a waste of time / money who hurt you by auto nerfing all the stuff you love or loved in the game few months after release. Playing yugioh in 2024 will always end in deception. Considering all of this above, Magic the gathering is probably a way better game than yugioh (and as yugioh fan it really hurt to say this)
I can't understand the logic behind Tears being healthy. You believe that they were lealthy only based on the Tear vs Tear match up. No, their interactions weren't healthy. You can't mil your opponents entire deck and call it healthy, you can't make full board on your opponents first turn and call it healthy, you can't have many ways to out your only counters and call it healthy.
Honestly, I don't know why there are still people defending that Tears were healthy and balanced.
I like how shifter lasts 2 turns, so it "balances" itself in that way, since only certain decks would be able to use it
Ef shifter. that card shouldve been banned months ago
Not really true. A lot of decks mained shifter to beat tear even if shifter hurt them (see spright).
It doesnt balance itself, it just gives a massive power boost to decks that can use it. A deck as bad as exosisters was able to top because of shifter
@@matthewradabaugh1635 To be fair, that’s a Tear problem, not a Shifter problem.
The problem with Tear was that one-for-one trades didn’t work against it because it gained so much advantage and never needed to expend resources as a cost to do anything, so the only way to stop it was with floodgates like Shifter.
7:00 - 9:00 This whole section sounds exactly like someone I know.
He's incredibly competitive but he also loves cube and when he first played it, he said it was the most fun he'd ever had playing yugioh.
He also had the same experience when worlds points were first announced and went to almost every regional that was on and basically had almost no available weekends. He would somewhat regularly go to two regionals on opposite sides of the country in one weekend and also travelled overseas to get points.
I dont play pokemon because of rotation.
Like... why would i spend money on cards if i cant use them in 3 months?
The turn one is why i left for pokemon.
The main problem with current Yugioh is that is doesn't have a cost system (like mana in MTG or memory in Digimon). Originally this was not a problem because the game was slower, but now, even crappy decks can fill the board and OTK you if they are not interrupted. This makes the use of powerful floodgates and handtraps a necessity, which are also a way of beating your oponent in one turn by not allowing them play.
As much as I love yugioh playing it at high level has really just left me drained. So just 3 days ago i decided to download and try magic the gathering arena, and im so glad i did. It's like a breath of fresh air.
Just give every archetype a circular power level card and call the game fixed
Yu-Gi-Oh went off the rails a looong time ago. I’d say it started going down the drain when Pendulums came out. It introduced the first field change and cards that no longer looked or functioned like yugioh cards, but we started seeing insanely consistent archetypes and strategies you couldn’t keep up with. I like archetypes and the introduction of cards that gave decks some consistency, but at some point it just became obnoxious. And the freaking hand traps, they’re the definition of un-fun. Kuriboh was fine, but when Ash Blossom hit the scene it all hit the fan. And it doesn’t help that at this point, hand traps became a necessary evil, if you don’t want to lose turn 1.
Pendulums could have been fine had they handled it better. It's a very interesting summoning mechanic, even to this day. But it was in the Pendulum Era that Konami seemed to forget what a "cost" or a "drawback" is.
One of thw best videos Josh, Keep it up!
Elemental hero trinity is kind of like what you said big boy who can't attack directly. But that monster you mention would be used with skill drain.
imo, Konami should mainly focus on introducing new powerful cards to previous archetypes. Seriously, if they're gonna do this power creep thing every few months or so then they need to even out the playing field for the previous archetypes.
Tearlaments by itself are actually really cool, but the Ishizu cards took it too far. I would like them to ban those, and at least semi-limit all the Tearlaments.
As for your points about Tier 0 formats, I am fine with the idea of them, but the cost of the deck is my problem. I'm not mad that Konami is essentially forcing me to play a Tier 0 deck, I'm mad thay Konami is essentially forcing me to pay hundreds of dollars to play Yu-Gi-Oh. And, sure, they're a business, and they need to make money. And that means absolutely nothing, because I can't afford to spend that kind of money. It doesn't matter how good or healthy the deck is, or how much money Konami needs so they can meet their quarterly; if I can't afford it, then I can't afford it.
Finally, I would like to see more cards Havnis, actually, although maybe not generating as much advantage. Ideally it would involve the opponent having to deal with it before their turn is over, as opposed to them losing their turn.
Edit: this is just me daydreaming, but I've wondering what a modern Nekroz style ritual deck would like, if they had effects similar to Havnis (obviously you would have to adjust them so they work as ritual cards). They're not completely useless by themselves, but they're still ritual cards, which is already a huge downside.
@@newfaces_v2 good thing I didn't talk about competing then. Playing 5 full-powered ishizu Tearlaments at a local with my $100 deck isn't exactly fun. Unsurprisingly, attendance there tanked, until that deck was hit.
So you want to go back to tier 0 with the only other viable deck being Kashtira, and floodgates everywhere? Because thats what your suggestion would do (unless you want to keep Kitkalos banned, that we could try).
Ishizu actually can be healthy and fine if its only affect its controller deck.
Miller can make gy based deck became consistent (as proved by tear itself and bunch of gy pile on master duel pre tear) and shuffler also became a good generic recovery tool (which more than 60% deck lack of).
And yes,Konami predatory/capitalism take on card rarity approach also the biggest problem there
At least ocg was sane enough to compensate its rarity card.
Tcg however....
tear should never have been created same with kash
@@reirei_tk I don't know what you're playing this format but tear was one of the most affordable decks in recent times. Every current meta deck is 500$ or more for a full deck. Except for maybe Spright. In fact, a lot of rogue decks are MORE expensive than tear ever was. I have no idea why this meme that tear was forcing players out of the game because it was too expensive still exists, it's just simply not true.
The last good format was a year ago
I'm sorry but this idea that the Yu-Gi-Oh community has of "we don't want new mechanics, just cool cards" is EXACTLY the reason why it's still considered a "niche" hobby. Refusing to evolve past what it is and be experimental is good this game dies. "We have it right where we want it, don't fuck with it" is just dumb
Yeah the peak of yugioh is behind us, for sure.