8 4 10 has a port and the wheat in the center means more wheat spots. 5 good wheat spots. only 3 ore spots so ore is more valuable. 9 5 10 is often not going to be enough ore to win (unless the 5 goes nuts)
I respect Buddy a lot, but I can't say I feel bad for him. I simply think he strategized this game poorly. His setup was waaaaaaayyy too dependent on the 10 (in going to town with dev cards as opposed to sevening out incessantly). Plus for every 9 rolled, Chris doubled his production. I simply feel he settled on an extremely rigid setup.
Buddy is certainly another player I respect a lot. I must say I don't think he played this particular game well whatsoever but, hey: everyone has bad days and is imperfect, so no shame in having an awful game on and off especially when he has legitimately proven his mettle by finishing a prior season with a Top Ten ranking. That's an achievement I was certainly never able to attain before I decided to stop playing (my personal best was #132 globally), so props to him for sure.🙂 But yeah: one can objectively be a more consistent competitive player than any of us here, but in spite of that we can still tell when they botched a game and how they could have done better. And in my opinion, my criticism starts right with his first initial pick of the 8/4/10. Ore, despite being clustered, was abundant on this board and I simply think the 5/9/10 was superior in that you're already assured a flexible foundation no matter what's remaining on the way back which could be further accentuated by the nearby 2:1 wood port. I just feel 8/4/10 was way too conservative a pick that didn't distinguish himself enough from his rivals given the abundance of ore. I would have even considered the 8/5/10 at the bottom of the map over the 8/4/10 because of the wood and brick market being questionably middling. 9/10/11 was an understandable second pick given he was obviously gearing pure OWS from the onset..............but again: it was such a conservative setup that has been done to death across online Catan going all the way back to the Neonate era that draws way too much attention and scrutiny to your game, not to mention was way too overly reliant on 10 rolling to wager effectively (going to town with dev cards). Plus for every 9 Wheat he needed that does come up, you double his production so he's overpowered in that respect as well. I just feel his setup was too rigid and dependent on a single number, whereas yours was much more malleable.
I struggle to follow your reasoning. Do you want to say buddy botched this *because* he played to conservatively? Especially your last paragraph doesn't make any sense. Buddy's setup has superior ore production. It has slightly lower wheat production. It has superior sheep production (relying on the same number as Chris does). So with his setup he will city up soon and win the army race in 9 out of 10 games... while Chris' setup is balanced (which has its own pros and cons). You may want to rewatch 9:20 - 10:40. This was one of the few games where the dice went nuts, and by 10:40 Chris was already 2 cities ahead. Sometimes it's that simple. I totally agree with your first sentence tho. I, too, have a lot of respect for both Chris and Buddy. Nice to watch them together.
@@michaelmuller5856 The problem is that even in a OWS setup you usually need 2 settlements to win the game This usually means you need wood or brick, otherwise the chances of getting crowded out is too high One can easily envision a scenario where he is unable to obtain a second settlement spot with his second placement and he only gets the 8 ore 3:1 from his first settlement Yes trades are possible but hard to count on that in a ranked game
@@DanielSong39 Yes, we all agree that the OWS player has a hard time getting a settlement. Conversely, the road player usually struggles to build cities. And I think it's reasonable to assume green is willing to trade road material for some ore. We can can debate which concept is stronger. And there were other choices from buddy that I found weird. My point is: this is not a game where you can point out any wrong decisions. With that setup you would expect him to build his first city before everyone else, right? And when he has two cities, the hard part for him begins, but you would expect him to be the very first player to build two cities, right? And then you watch the game (9:20 - 10:40). During the first nine rolls, the number "5" rolled five times. This was just insane luck (or bad luck) 😃
@@michaelmuller5856 Reasonable assumptions but in this case he needs 2 road materials not 1 because he has no wood The pure OWS setup is much easier with a starting port He got unlucky with the settlements I agree and a starting wood would have made a big difference
The other thing I wonder is what if Green had been present and gotten the 9/4/11 like they should have? Budddy probably would have taken the 6/3/11. I wonder if that would have made it a more even game between everyone? Green, at least, would have been a much more massive threat with the ore and wheat, and probably could have sneaked over to the 8/3. Ahh well...we'll never know.
I’d love to hear Buddy’s explanation as to why he took 8-4-10 to start. I thought the 10-9-5 you got was the obvious best choice.
I think both were good. I think I would’ve done what Buddy did as well in the first position, but it is close. To me that 3:1 port is the tiebreaker.
8 4 10 has a port and the wheat in the center means more wheat spots. 5 good wheat spots. only 3 ore spots so ore is more valuable. 9 5 10 is often not going to be enough ore to win (unless the 5 goes nuts)
Yup, agree.
You don't get wheat on the way back a lot of the time
True, but on this board because of the 3 center wheat, it’s basically guaranteed.
Nice domination😂
Yea this one was a blast!
Lol, that was an amazing game! X3
For all the times I complain about the dice not going my way... they way my way for this one!
Nice cameo from BuddyCatan! Feel bad for him though.
Yea, he had a ridiculous setup thanks to the computer auto selecting for green. We’re fortunate he couldn’t get it up and running fast enough
just checked & looks like Buddy has not uploaded his version of this match, but hope he does!
Yea but he’s commented on our video. Curious to see if he uploads it as well since it would be fun to have a second perspective
I respect Buddy a lot, but I can't say I feel bad for him. I simply think he strategized this game poorly. His setup was waaaaaaayyy too dependent on the 10 (in going to town with dev cards as opposed to sevening out incessantly). Plus for every 9 rolled, Chris doubled his production. I simply feel he settled on an extremely rigid setup.
gg
Indeed, @buddycatan! Seeya online again at some point!
Buddy is certainly another player I respect a lot. I must say I don't think he played this particular game well whatsoever but, hey: everyone has bad days and is imperfect, so no shame in having an awful game on and off especially when he has legitimately proven his mettle by finishing a prior season with a Top Ten ranking. That's an achievement I was certainly never able to attain before I decided to stop playing (my personal best was #132 globally), so props to him for sure.🙂
But yeah: one can objectively be a more consistent competitive player than any of us here, but in spite of that we can still tell when they botched a game and how they could have done better. And in my opinion, my criticism starts right with his first initial pick of the 8/4/10. Ore, despite being clustered, was abundant on this board and I simply think the 5/9/10 was superior in that you're already assured a flexible foundation no matter what's remaining on the way back which could be further accentuated by the nearby 2:1 wood port. I just feel 8/4/10 was way too conservative a pick that didn't distinguish himself enough from his rivals given the abundance of ore. I would have even considered the 8/5/10 at the bottom of the map over the 8/4/10 because of the wood and brick market being questionably middling.
9/10/11 was an understandable second pick given he was obviously gearing pure OWS from the onset..............but again: it was such a conservative setup that has been done to death across online Catan going all the way back to the Neonate era that draws way too much attention and scrutiny to your game, not to mention was way too overly reliant on 10 rolling to wager effectively (going to town with dev cards). Plus for every 9 Wheat he needed that does come up, you double his production so he's overpowered in that respect as well. I just feel his setup was too rigid and dependent on a single number, whereas yours was much more malleable.
I struggle to follow your reasoning. Do you want to say buddy botched this *because* he played to conservatively? Especially your last paragraph doesn't make any sense.
Buddy's setup has superior ore production.
It has slightly lower wheat production.
It has superior sheep production (relying on the same number as Chris does).
So with his setup he will city up soon and win the army race in 9 out of 10 games... while Chris' setup is balanced (which has its own pros and cons). You may want to rewatch 9:20 - 10:40. This was one of the few games where the dice went nuts, and by 10:40 Chris was already 2 cities ahead. Sometimes it's that simple.
I totally agree with your first sentence tho. I, too, have a lot of respect for both Chris and Buddy. Nice to watch them together.
@@michaelmuller5856 The problem is that even in a OWS setup you usually need 2 settlements to win the game
This usually means you need wood or brick, otherwise the chances of getting crowded out is too high
One can easily envision a scenario where he is unable to obtain a second settlement spot with his second placement and he only gets the 8 ore 3:1 from his first settlement
Yes trades are possible but hard to count on that in a ranked game
At that point all you can do is to pull 10 D's and hope you get 2 VP
@@DanielSong39 Yes, we all agree that the OWS player has a hard time getting a settlement. Conversely, the road player usually struggles to build cities. And I think it's reasonable to assume green is willing to trade road material for some ore.
We can can debate which concept is stronger. And there were other choices from buddy that I found weird.
My point is: this is not a game where you can point out any wrong decisions. With that setup you would expect him to build his first city before everyone else, right? And when he has two cities, the hard part for him begins, but you would expect him to be the very first player to build two cities, right?
And then you watch the game (9:20 - 10:40). During the first nine rolls, the number "5" rolled five times. This was just insane luck (or bad luck) 😃
@@michaelmuller5856 Reasonable assumptions but in this case he needs 2 road materials not 1 because he has no wood
The pure OWS setup is much easier with a starting port
He got unlucky with the settlements I agree and a starting wood would have made a big difference
The other thing I wonder is what if Green had been present and gotten the 9/4/11 like they should have? Budddy probably would have taken the 6/3/11. I wonder if that would have made it a more even game between everyone? Green, at least, would have been a much more massive threat with the ore and wheat, and probably could have sneaked over to the 8/3. Ahh well...we'll never know.
True, that computer pick really shook up the game.